Installing Studs on a Snowmobile

[we're golden]

Thinking of installing studs on one of my sleds. Have done some priliminary research but any advise,tips or warnings about potential problems would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance

[Lakegeezer]

No matter what the problems, if you sled on the lake or head up into the hills, you need studs. They can save you if you are about to hit open water and allow you to stop half-way up a icy hill and restart. One downside is they will dig up or mark stuff without snow. I've put plywood down in the storage shed with a concrete floor and stay off the patio stones.

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by we're golden

Thinking of installing studs on one of my sleds. Have done some priliminary research but any advise,tips or warnings about potential problems would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance

Stud the inside only, don't put studs on outside edges of the track. Get yourself a template and a good track-hole drill bit.

[Steveo]

I would use 2X6's versus 2X4's - better traction

[we're golden]

Thansk Cip j29 have you installed your own ? Is it any easy job?

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by we're golden

Thansk Cip j29 have you installed your own ? Is it any easy job?

I have studded one track. I created my own template, although I admit I wish I had bought one for simplicity.
It wasn't a real hard job, just real repetitive. I think the hardest part was tightening the studs using an allen wrench on the inside of the track. My hands/fingers got real sore.

For the record, I did that about 6 years ago. I have since bought new sleds, and didn't stud either of them. I have never been stuck on any icy hill since. It is a personal preference thing I guess. Some people swear by them, others wouldn't think of installing them.

[WINNOCTURN]

Originally Posted by we're golden

Thinking of installing studs on one of my sleds. Have done some priliminary research but any advise,tips or warnings about potential problems would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance

golden,

Here is a link to WOODY'S. They are one of the most used studs on snowmobiles. The three links below should give you the information you need.

WOODY 'S
http://www.wiem.com/steering_chart.aspx

Application /Guide

http://www.wiem.com/app_guide/step1.aspx

Installation Guide
http://www.wiem.com/installation_instructions.aspx



The first thing you need to know is the height of the track lug. An old rule of thumb was you only used a stud that would be a 1/4 to 3/8 above the height of the track lug.

A set of 96 studs may average about $125. A template $40 and a good hole cutter $20. You may know some one how has a template and cutter? You could go to a dealer Which probably would run you around $300.

The job will probably take a couple of hours. It helps if you have a second pair of hands when installing the studs, one person holding the stud and the other tightening the nut.

1 Safely raise the back of the Sled up by the rear bumper to a good working height.

2 Start by marking the track with the template and some whiteout or chalk.

3 Using the white dots to cut the holes, usually one pattern at a time.

4 Now install the studs in the single pattern and the repeat the same process for each segment.

It is not a difficult task

I just stole this from Ishoot308.

"Tunnel Protectors!
Make sure you also install "tunnel protectors" if your using studs!!

Dan"

You do not want to put studs on with out them. Add another hour and $40 to the project.

WINNOCTURN

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by chipj29

For the record, I did that about 6 years ago. I have since bought new sleds, and didn't stud either of them. I have never been stuck on any icy hill since. It is a personal preference thing I guess. Some people swear by them, others wouldn't think of installing them.

I've had sleds since the late 60's. I use to swear by studs. In the past few years, tread patterns and the materials they use for the belts have gotten so sophisticated, I don't feel the needs for studs.

So it is personal preference. I was told that studding every other banks of stud holes will be sufficient with the new sleds.

[Shreddy]

In a nutshell. Studding is an extremely easy and beneficial job. As many have elaborated on the benefit and I'm sure you have done your research, I won't talk about the benefits.
I've studded quite a few tracks and I can get them done under two hours easily.
1. Elevate the rear end of the sled
2. Take your belt off so the track spins freely
3. Make your own or just ask me for a template (you want a good one so make sure you get proper traction depending on the amount of studs used)
4. Buy the drill bit and start drilling all the holes necessary in the track using the template.
5. The hard part, push the studs through the track and tighten as appropriate.

I've found the easiest way to tighten studs is with a compressor and an impact wrench. It saves hours!

Lastly, if you need it done at a relatively cheap cost. I'm available and would be happy to do it in my garage for a small fee (I generally accept payment in the form of cases of beer ). Hope that helps!

[ishoot308]

Make sure you also install "tunnel protectors" if your using studs!!

Dan

[we're golden]

Thanks folks for all the great information on the studding sounds like it is relatively easy job . Shreddy I will most likely take you up on your template offer Thanks. Can you all shed some more light on the tunnel protectors? Purpose? Cost? and installation tips/ directions. Thanks

[trfour]

This video should help you;
http://www.youtube.com/user/recdirectweb

"tunnel protectors? Purpose?"... The tunnel is the part of your snowmobile chassis that the track runs inside of. With studs installed on the track, if the track frame suspension were to bottom out, the studs could hit and tear up the tunnel area, or even worse take out a heat exchanger.

I installed hyfax using stainless steal rivets on all of my sleds. Keep in mind that you want to have about 1" side to side clearance so the studs do not hit the hyfax.

Hyfax is inexpensive. You will need the year, make and model of your sled to purchase the stud kit, for proper clearances.

Good luck and Happy sledding.

[Wreckn1]

i have studded way to may tracks and my best time was done in 1.5 hours, remove drive belt, lift rear up, secure the snow flap out of the way, and start drilling, after all holes were drilled i went through pushed all studs through and then went through and tighted them up, i made my own pattern i know what works and what doesnt, air drill, impact gun and soap and water work very well and make things go faster. it is easy but it is a pain on the thumbs, just stick to it dont stop and get it done, and ONLY STUD IN THE CENTER OF THE TRACK, the reason being is they will rip out of the outside of the track. good luck

[Webbsatwinni]

Has anyone tried trail grabbers? They are screws that go in the lugs of the track and not through it. The concept looks good, but I have never heard of anyone using them.

http://www.bergstromskegs.com/tg/tg_adv.htm

[hazelnut]

Thanks for the info on those. They look very interesting. I wonder how they hold up. It looks like a good alternative to studs.

[WINNOCTURN]

Originally Posted by Webbsatwinni

Has anyone tried trail grabbers? They are screws that go in the lugs of the track and not through it. The concept looks good, but I have never heard of anyone using them.

http://www.bergstromskegs.com/tg/tg_adv.htm

I know several people that tried them some time ago. They did not stay in the lug that well and they were tearing the lug when the pulled out.

One of the after market track makers has a similar device "molded in" to the lugs. It looks pretty good.

[woodynh]

All good respones and information. I just want to add a couple more points because I have learned the hard way over the last few years and torn studs through tracks too many times.

1. If you are purely studding for trail use then use the shortest possible stud no more then 1/4" higher then the lug height. Two reasons for this. If you are trail riding you don't need that much penetration and if you get them too long they will bend and pull through the track. Also as I said the longer they are the more penetration into things like stumps in low snow conditions and when you throttle it the stud will hold and pull through the track.

2. With the deeper lug track of today like 1.25" the studs are longer and bend easier in the track and pull through the track. They now make nuts that extend taller in the track to prevent the bending of the rubber and more likely will bend the stud. Use the extended nuts for tracks with 1" and deeper lugs.

3. Already mentioned a couple times don't stud the outside belts and if you use a template do not use the very end holes near the outside of the middle of the track. They are most likely to pull through the track because there is little support on the track in that area.

4. Last don't over stud your track. As mentioned the new tracks have great traction compared to old tracks. Many people and companies will provide information saying more is better or you need this many for a certain horsepower. I usally only put in 96 studs on my trail sleds. I have never had a need for more for trail use.

I have run 10,000's of miles on under 1" tracks and never had a stud pull through. Then in the late 1990's and early 2000's I started using longer and more studs. Then I was not having a track last more then 2 or 3 years before it was junk from all the pull throughs. The last couple sleds I have done as mentioned above and have thousands of miles with no studs pulled through the track.

[jmen24]

Originally Posted by Webbsatwinni

Has anyone tried trail grabbers? They are screws that go in the lugs of the track and not through it. The concept looks good, but I have never heard of anyone using them.

http://www.bergstromskegs.com/tg/tg_adv.htm

I can tell you that I use an almost identical product for my ATV for ice fishing and winter camping for a little extra traction. They will pull out of the lugs and the ones that stay in will wear down to the neck of the screw by the end of the season (which is good and bad). Overall they work really well for low speed, high torque applications. They are installed in 589's, these tires have a very hard compound in them but not the same as a track.

Take it for what it is worth but I would think the high RPM's of the track would spit them out. This was always a problem with my two and four stroke HP quads. The tires would literally spin fast enough that it would throw the stud, again softer compound than a track.

[Woodsy]

My .02...

You didnt say what make/model sled.... call the dealer and see if you need tthe aformentioned tunnel protectors.... no need to hit a big bump and rip out your heat exchangers! OUCH!!

1. 1/4" longer than the track height is perfect.

2. Go buy the template and the drill tool.... it makes life ALOT easier!

3. Get the aluminum backing plates... the steel ones are very heavy.

4. Disconnect your drive belt, and tip your sled on its side so you have easy access to the track. If you have access to an impact wrench it will make tightening the studs quicker and easier.

Woodsy

[jmen24]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

My .02...

You didnt say what make/model sled.... call the dealer and see if you need tthe aformentioned tunnel protectors.... no need to hit a big bump and rip out your heat exchangers! OUCH!!

1. 1/4" longer than the track height is perfect.

2. Go buy the template and the drill tool.... it makes life ALOT easier!

3. Get the aluminum backing plates... the steel ones are very heavy.

4. Disconnect your drive belt, and tip your sled on its side so you have easy access to the track. If you have access to an impact wrench it will make tightening the studs quicker and easier.

Woodsy

Just one more to add to the list.

4a. Clamp to fuel line and vent tube to prevent a big clean-up when you are done.

[wadden]

DaSilva is doing my ski doos. They will do it right and it's painless for me!

[WINNOCTURN]

Originally Posted by wadden

DaSilva is doing my ski doos. They will do it right and it's painless for me!

How many Studs and how much is he charging?

[trfour]

You could have an identical track, (Length & Height Lugs) the more horsepower, the more studs you will need and this will require a different template. This is why it is very important to check with you're dealer- supplier.
Studs are the only way to go here in central NH. Now, if you only ride in the far north and stay away from frozen water, you can get away with a stock, bare track.

[MAXUM]

Studs will give you very good traction on ice which can be very helpful in certain situations. They can tear stuff up so you got to be careful with them and what you ride over. I was never a fan of them until I recently bought a sled that was lightly studded. Makes all the difference when trails have icy spots. Literally you don't have to worry about the a$$ end of the sled getting loose on you, especially in a corner. My only gripe with them is that they can do damage to the sled, to the tunnel if the suspension bottoms out and especially the snow flap. Now one interesting thing I noticed on my studded machine is that the stud pattern is such where they are not in direct line with the heat exchangers that run the length of the tunnel that connect the front and rear exchangers. That was a nice touch by whoever installed them. For the snow flap, well I bought a shorter and stiffer flap so it's almost impossible for it to make contact with the track if I were to back up into deep snow. Nothing looks rattier than a tore up shredded snow flap.

I'd lay bets that I have about 96 studs in my 121" track, I'm convinced that's all you need. I see some guys who are running tracks that look like they have braces, good grief you could turn these machines into brush chippers in the off season. Think that is way over kill. Also I would think that in those circumstances the stress on the track by so many studs is sure to shorten it's life and weaken it substantially. Just my opinion anyways.

If I had the choice would I stud a machine? Probably not as I don't ride aggressive and although they give you good traction in certain situations I don't ride when the conditions are marginal where they are most useful. What I don't like about them is you have to be so darn careful not to rip up anything your riding over, they will tear up everything they come in contact with, tar, cement, wood even if your not careful trailer mats. One thing I did as an "upgrade" to my trailer was to remove the stock mats and replace them with an old 1" lug track. The other nice thing with using an old track as a replacement pad is they give you awesome traction loading the machines up into the trailer.

[Shreddy]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

Studs will give you very good traction on ice which can be very helpful in certain situations. They can tear stuff up so you got to be careful with them and what you ride over. I was never a fan of them until I recently bought a sled that was lightly studded. Makes all the difference when trails have icy spots. Literally you don't have to worry about the a$$ end of the sled getting loose on you, especially in a corner. My only gripe with them is that they can do damage to the sled, to the tunnel if the suspension bottoms out and especially the snow flap. Now one interesting thing I noticed on my studded machine is that the stud pattern is such where they are not in direct line with the heat exchangers that run the length of the tunnel that connect the front and rear exchangers. That was a nice touch by whoever installed them. For the snow flap, well I bought a shorter and stiffer flap so it's almost impossible for it to make contact with the track if I were to back up into deep snow. Nothing looks rattier than a tore up shredded snow flap.

I'd lay bets that I have about 96 studs in my 121" track, I'm convinced that's all you need. I see some guys who are running tracks that look like they have braces, good grief you could turn these machines into brush chippers in the off season. Think that is way over kill. Also I would think that in those circumstances the stress on the track by so many studs is sure to shorten it's life and weaken it substantially. Just my opinion anyways.

If I had the choice would I stud a machine? Probably not as I don't ride aggressive and although they give you good traction in certain situations I don't ride when the conditions are marginal where they are most useful. What I don't like about them is you have to be so darn careful not to rip up anything your riding over, they will tear up everything they come in contact with, tar, cement, wood even if your not careful trailer mats. One thing I did as an "upgrade" to my trailer was to remove the stock mats and replace them with an old 1" lug track. The other nice thing with using an old track as a replacement pad is they give you awesome traction loading the machines up into the trailer.

You have 96 studs in your track if you have two studs per row on a 121" track.

Next, how many studs someone needs isn't really a matter of opinion. The guys you see with a lot of studs are probably compensating for something (power, carbide, etc.). It all depends on the nature of how you use your sled. For instance, if I race on Back Lake or Turkey Pond regularly with a race sled, I'll probably be running a lot more than 96 studs due to running on ice. So be careful about the advice you give if you do not understand what you are talking about.

For instance, many people don't know there is a direct relationship between the number of studs you run and the size of carbides you use on the skis. All I'm saying is, do your homework. The Winnipesaukee forum is not the best place to get your info regarding stuff like this. Check out some snowmobile related websites such as hardcoresledder.com or dootalk.com. There is tons of information on this topic that is very precise.

[VitaBene]

I understand your point competely and believe you are right. Frankly, I am not sure what is right (I am on HCS and am sloooowly figuring it out) and luckily all of my new to me sleds have been already done. Done, but all somewhat differently.

For general purpose, originating for the lakes region (snow Gods willing) snowmobiling, what would you recommend for studding? I just picked up a new (to me) sled that was just studded 96 up the middle.

[Shreddy]

Originally Posted by VitaBene

I understand your point competely and believe you are right. Frankly, I am not sure what is right (I am on HCS and am sloooowly figuring it out) and luckily all of my new to me sleds have been already done. Done, but all somewhat differently.

For general purpose, originating for the lakes region (snow Gods willing) snowmobiling, what would you recommend for studding? I just picked up a new (to me) sled that was just studded 96 up the middle.

For trail riding, especially around the Lakes Region, 96 studs has become the happy medium for almost all sleds. I run 96 on my 600ho. I also have a clutch kit and C&A pro skis so I'm borderline pushing it right now. I plan to gear down 1 tooth on top gear soon and when I do that I'm going to need to change my track and run some more studs. I'll probably end up running 144 for the added traction. There is a reason why (and many people don't know) a sled should run a certain amount of studs.

For example, with my clutch kit, if I geared down and didn't change my track or studs, it would be pointless and overkill. The point of gearing down on top gear is to be faster off the line and generate the power to the track. Likewise, this is very similar with a clutch kit. Clutch kit will make you engage at a higher RPM. So, by combining these two modifications the power would be going to my track, but it would be too much power and not enough tractiong given my 1" lugs and 96 studs. Therefore, I would step up to at least a 1.25" track (probably Rip Saw) and 144 studs.

This is one of few examples of why people run the studs they run. If you have any specific questions feel free to shoot them to me. I don't know everything, but I know a lot and I can tell you where to find answers if I don't know. Just let me know what sled it is, where you ride, and what kind of riding you are looking to be setup for.

[woodynh]

Originally Posted by Shreddy

You have 96 studs in your track if you have two studs per row on a 121" track.

Next, how many studs someone needs isn't really a matter of opinion. The guys you see with a lot of studs are probably compensating for something (power, carbide, etc.). It all depends on the nature of how you use your sled. For instance, if I race on Back Lake or Turkey Pond regularly with a race sled, I'll probably be running a lot more than 96 studs due to running on ice. So be careful about the advice you give if you do not understand what you are talking about.

For instance, many people don't know there is a direct relationship between the number of studs you run and the size of carbides you use on the skis. All I'm saying is, do your homework. The Winnipesaukee forum is not the best place to get your info regarding stuff like this. Check out some snowmobile related websites such as hardcoresledder.com or dootalk.com. There is tons of information on this topic that is very precise.

Just a warning be careful about some of those snowmobile related websites. While a lot of the information is true there is just as much BS on there. Read through many topics on what you are looking for and make a decision for yourself.

I am an avid snowmobiler and have a lot of friends that snowmobile. I have 6 sleds sitting in the garage ranging from a 220 hp crankshop sled to a 1976 Mercury.

I have way too many friends that believe everything they read on those forums and waste more money and screw more things up from things they read and think are helpful then I care to remember.

Trust me I am on those sites all the time they are fun and full of advise just weed through the sdvise and make your own decisions. I feel that talking to your local dealer will give you better advise then a lot of it on those sites. Another idea is talk to people in the local snowmobile club. There are a lot of people with a lot experience in those clubs and they probably would give you a hand for a couple beers and some help with trail work.