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Old 08-14-2021, 06:46 PM   #1
bumpye
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Default Capt. Jack Asses on Paugus Today

We witnessed what could have been a horrible situation on Paugus Bay today (I know, big mistake, sandbar on the weekend). Capt. Jackass came into the sandbar with a pontoon and a good breeze blowing on shore. He proceeded to attempt to anchor off our port bow while he was sideways, bow pointed to our bow anchor line. He threw his bow anchor which IMO was too small, no chain rode, as another passenger jumped in to try and set the anchor in six feet of water. Didn't work. He was drifting toward the two boats beside us and the guy in the water was now at the stern trying to set the stern anchor. When it was clear that he was going to hit one or both of the boats...HE GUNS IT! The guy in the water is between the two boats and disappears! We think he went under the pontoons of the boat that was hit. People are jumping in the water looking for him and for 30 seconds it was pure panic. Honestly, I was looking to see if there was blood in the water. The guy in the water eventually surfaces and was OK. Capt. JA then shuts the motor and lifts it, per the instructions being yelled to him by the second boat he was about to hit and run over his anchor line. He finally clears the two boats, starts the engine, and drives over to a dock where the "Old School" speed boat docks. Kids on the first boat are crying, people on the second boat on the phone, and eventually Harbor patrol showed up. Fortunately no one was hurt, but that was one of about six "captains" that had no clue how to anchor, or to buy the right size anchor.
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Old 08-14-2021, 06:55 PM   #2
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You need a license to do carpentry, wash dogs, or drive a moped….but any horses a** can buy a 34’ Pursuit with twin 454’s and head on out…
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Old 08-14-2021, 07:49 PM   #3
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A license for carpentry?
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Old 08-14-2021, 10:25 PM   #4
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You need a license to do carpentry, wash dogs, or drive a moped….but any horses a** can buy a 34’ Pursuit with twin 454’s and head on out…
This a reference to the Pursuit that crashed in Boston Harbor where a girl was killed and no one charged yet.....
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Old 08-15-2021, 07:37 AM   #5
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Default License

Interestingly, one of our forum members started a thread on The I boat FB page regarding licensing vs the BS certificate. There was a lot of pushback. I advocate for in water testing.
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Old 08-15-2021, 07:50 AM   #6
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This a reference to the Pursuit that crashed in Boston Harbor where a girl was killed and no one charged yet.....

Yea, in MA and for ocean I agree, that comment you’re referring to is just flat out incorrect on our lakes though. In water testing solves nothing, look how many people pass a driver test and still drive like garbage
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Old 08-15-2021, 08:40 AM   #7
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Interestingly, one of our forum members started a thread on The I boat FB page regarding licensing vs the BS certificate. There was a lot of pushback. I advocate for in water testing.
I have to agree with Winni, Vita. I don't think it would make any difference. I think MOST people know, they just don't care. The lake has gotten wild.
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Old 08-15-2021, 09:01 AM   #8
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Yea, in MA and for ocean I agree, that comment you’re referring to is just flat out incorrect on our lakes though. In water testing solves nothing, look how many people pass a driver test and still drive like garbage
"solves nothing"? So are you saying that because some people are terrible drivers then the driving test is a waste? It sounds like you think all drivers must be perfect for testing to prove itself. The goal would be to reduce the number of incompetent drivers/boaters, not bring it to zero.

My sense of the current test is that it forced me to learn certain important safety things, so I'm glad we do it.
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Old 08-15-2021, 09:29 AM   #9
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I agree that in-water tests should be given before getting a boating license.
However, there are lots of people who have taken road tests for driving and
just disregard what they learned once they get the driver's license. I think
most experienced boaters are frustrated with the overall lack of respect
shown to other boaters. Alot of these boaters shouldn't be driving a boat!
It amazes me that you can rent a boat under 25hp without a license! I know
that's not a speed boat, but if you don't know what you're doing, don't risk the lives of your party or others. Having been vacationing here for eons, and at least 13 years at Winnisquam...no comparison. Winnisquam is almost
hazard free. So here's to smarter and safer boating!! Enjoy the last 2 weeks of August! Weather seems to be co-operating.
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Old 08-15-2021, 09:59 AM   #10
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The resources needed to do an in water test for everyone who needs to get a boating license would be astronomic. If people were humble and cared about learning a new skill, they could either teach themselves or ask experienced boaters to teach them. A lot of people just don't care, so instead you get people like the guy I saw unload at Shibley's yesterday and proceed to blast past the in water boat show at 2krpms bow pointed at the sky, while 100k's of thousands of dollars worth of antique boats rocked in their docks while people screamed at him from shore.......
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Old 08-15-2021, 10:15 AM   #11
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I respectfully disagree. The money gleaned from having in water boating tests
might discourage the weekend warriors and scofflaws from just renting a boat and having not a care in the world on the water. I realize my MA driver's license allows me to drive pretty much where there's a road, so a boating license
issued in another state would be of no use to those who boat up here, but for
the folks who just want a party weekend on NH lakes...they should be sub-
jected to some kind of competency test. I still say it's an ignorance thing, and I'm sorry you had to witness it at its' worst.
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Old 08-15-2021, 10:23 AM   #12
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Are you sure they didn't do it to make a ''statement''?
It seems that everything that we are helping build on the lake now is about making a ''statement''. It is their money, so I try and comply... but when they ask what I think... I am honest.

It may be that the boater realizes that the woodies are owned by people that are higher up the pecking order.
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Old 08-15-2021, 10:54 AM   #13
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Well said. They have no comprehension of boating laws and protocol. Time to
call a spade a spade and get MP involved instead of like down here in MA where State Police are invisible when they are needed most.
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Old 08-15-2021, 11:00 AM   #14
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I don't really believe that people who own woodies think of themselves as higher on the pecking order. They are interested in enjoying something they love.
Like when many years ago someone said I must be rich since I drive a Mercedes. My reply was that I don't smoke and don't drink, therefore I drive what I enjoy.
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Old 08-15-2021, 12:09 PM   #15
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Going back to the original post, maneuvering a pontoon in some wind to anchor between a few boats takes some skill and experience. The shame of situations like Bumpye described is someone who is new at it can practice somewhere wide open, and not get "on-the-spot" experience at a crowded sandbar with other people's health and possessions in harm's way. Finally, I always offer to help when someone is anchoring next to me, and I'm guessing most others do as well. Lots of help and a slow cautious approach can make situations like that turn out fine.

Frustrating and dangerous. That's why I generally avoid Winni on weekends.
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Old 08-15-2021, 12:39 PM   #16
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I don't really believe that people who own woodies think of themselves as higher on the pecking order. They are interested in enjoying something they love.
Like when many years ago someone said I must be rich since I drive a Mercedes. My reply was that I don't smoke and don't drink, therefore I drive what I enjoy.
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It isn't what they think they are... it is what others think they are.
Wooden boats imply antiquity... more of a connoisseur than a commodity item. Less to do with wealth and more to do with passion.

We don't see people with Mercedes as rich... we see them as tourists. The reason is simple... anyone that can afford a Mercedes can purchase one - unless it was an antique - but since no Mercedes dealerships exist in the area - most newer models are driven by residents south of us coming to the area.
An antique Mercedes would show that passion.
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Old 08-15-2021, 09:12 PM   #17
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I agree with Vita. Same could be said for trailering ……. Absolutely astounding seeing some of the baffoons dragging a 22ft behind an Audi or Subaru and then the issue of trying to back a boat down a ramp…..
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Old 08-15-2021, 09:30 PM   #18
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Just one more reason to avoid crowded urine filled sand bars.
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Old 08-15-2021, 11:17 PM   #19
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I agree with Vita. Same could be said for trailering ……. Absolutely astounding seeing some of the baffoons dragging a 22ft behind an Audi or Subaru and then the issue of trying to back a boat down a ramp…..
It may be that they have just gotten into it like so many others and have yet to decide if it is right for them.
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Old 08-16-2021, 11:10 AM   #20
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Re: in-water testing, licensing, etc. NH requires a boating certificate to operate. Since there is very little enforcement, do we really think that all operators have a BC? Just like all people who get their drivers license pulled don’t drive?


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Old 08-16-2021, 11:30 AM   #21
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Default And don't forget to watch out for those big, brown things...

...there's a big rock near us that is well inside, (maybe a couple hundred feet), a buoy. Normally, by this time of year, it is about 6 inches out of the water, but with the high lake levels, it is just starting to rear its head. Nonetheless, fools have hit it now two weekends in a row, as they pass on the wrong side of the marker. Last week, a pontoon boat bounced one of its pontoons off of it...not a direct hit. Yesterday, however, about a 20' outboard bowrider was headed right for it. The neighbor and I were both yelling, but BANG...direct hit! The motor jerked up out of the water. Mr. Magoo obviously never saw it. He did have a trolling motor on the front of his boat and next thing u know, he put that down and motored off with that and the outboard up in the air.
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Old 08-16-2021, 12:03 PM   #22
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I will freely admit I've been on the wrong side of buoys several times on Winni (no hits though). Tough lake to navigate. So not sure I'd pass judgement on every person who hits a rock, sometimes %#$@ happens.
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Old 08-16-2021, 12:28 PM   #23
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I will freely admit I've been on the wrong side of buoys several times on Winni (no hits though). Tough lake to navigate. So not sure I'd pass judgement on every person who hits a rock, sometimes %#$@ happens.
I don't disagree with you....it can definitely be a navigation challenge, especially in some of the more gnarly areas, and yes, innocent mistakes happen. I've been boating here since the 70's and I still consult my chart if it's an area I haven't been in for a few years or at all. But when a rock the size of a volkswagen is breaking through the water and there's a buoy a couple hundred feet to the side of it, that should be pretty obvious. If it's not, then stop and consult your chart or GPS. And if someone doesn't have a chart or GPS or compass, nor know what side of the buoy to go on, then they probably shouldn't be out driving the boat.
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Old 08-16-2021, 12:41 PM   #24
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I don't disagree with you....it can definitely be a navigation challenge, especially in some of the more gnarly areas, and yes, innocent mistakes happen. I've been boating here since the 70's and I still consult my chart if it's an area I haven't been in for a few years or at all. But when a rock the size of a volkswagen is breaking through the water and there's a buoy a couple hundred feet to the side of it, that should be pretty obvious. If it's not, then stop and consult your chart or GPS. And if someone doesn't have a chart or GPS or compass, nor know what side of the buoy to go on, then they probably shouldn't be out driving the boat.
No disagreement there.

If you had never been to the lake, and I showed you The Witches and all the buoys around them, you wouldn't believe it if I told you countless boaters have hit them.
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Old 08-16-2021, 01:43 PM   #25
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Default (not so) Funny Witches Story...

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No disagreement there.

If you had never been to the lake, and I showed you The Witches and all the buoys around them, you wouldn't believe it if I told you countless boaters have hit them.
So my father grew up on the ocean, (Hough's Neck in Quincy), and spent his youth till early 20's sailing around Boston Harbor. Then came WWII and he spent a number of years in the Navy. Bottom line, he was experienced when it came to Ocean navigation and markers, but when he bought his first boat on the lake in 1974, he was clueless on NH inland waters navigation and markers. We had just passed the end of Governor's Island heading towards The Broads. My mother and I were in the front of their new 18' Wellcraft bowrider and my father was driving. I was 12 at the time. My mother and I happened to suddenly notice all the huge boulders below us and screamed, "ROCKS!!" My father slammed it into neutral. When we all put our hearts back in our chests, we paddled our way out of The Witches. The only thing that saved our bacon was that it was early May and the water was high.

That was our major life lesson on Winnipesaukee navigation!
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Old 08-16-2021, 04:23 PM   #26
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Default In water test would help

I won't comment on the feasibility or the cost of an in-water test, but it most definitely would make a difference. 17 years ago, I was a first-time boater and I can remember learning as much as I could and looking at charts. The written test is not all that useful (and easy to pass with a little memorization).

As all of you know, driving a boat is very different than driving a car - ESPECIALLY when it comes to docking or maneuvering in tight spaces. It is VERY easy for a novice (or even someone with some experience) to panic in a tight space and "gun it" - not because they don't care but because they are scared and they panic.

Even if the "in water test" just forced a new driver to get a feel for a few basic, but essential skills, it would be helpful. For example, the process of "stopping" a boat by slowly and patiently using forward and reverse, and maybe navigating around a few markers placed in an area where you can make a mistake and learn from it.

Everything on the water has more impact than a new boater thinks it can (a light breeze can push you quickly, a "small" wave can impact you more than you think), etc.

I know you all know this already - but taking a written test teaches you NONE of this. As someone else said, even after 17 years, I find myself in situations where I have to remind myself not to panic and go SLOW and think carefully. It is not easy.

My 2 cents.
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Old 08-16-2021, 06:26 PM   #27
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Default had to see it to believe it

I have made my share of mistakes boating but almost always at low speed so the boat and i survived to live another day! The other day while getting gas at Shep Brown's I saw an incident that took my breath away.

A fancy speed boat had just been put into the water by the marina's boat lift machines. Two guys in the boat let the boat drift backwards away from the lifter and then it happened. The boat accelerated with a roar forward onto the paved road and clipping the corner of the dock. The lift attendant jumped off and help lift the bow of the boat off the dock and back into the water. Everyone around just looked at each other thinking the same thing "what an idiot driver" and then the boat just waltzed out of the marina. We were shaking out heads. The gas attendant said he sees crazy stuff like that at least once a week. Unbelievable.
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Old 08-16-2021, 07:27 PM   #28
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Smile Captain Jack Ass

I was at the lake yesterday, beautiful, a little breezy, lots of boat chop but crazy traffic! I will generate some engine hours in spite of the month of July.
Somehow I learned (at around 16 years of age) the respect and skillset it took to operate the family's 1950 Chris Craft Sportsman. Mastered docking that beauty when Goodue's was were MP now sits. I still like the feel of inboard control better over the outdrive drift and correct. Yes the throttle in the center of the steering wheel was hazardous. my father took out the flag pole on our dock when his sleeve got entangled by it. Being an Idlewild Camper himself, he still managed to do some serious damage to the skeg, prop, and rudder when he hit some rocks around Cow. I learned quickly myself over the graveyard. Every day is a learning experience on the Lake.

I Cruised by WA sandbar, over to Winter Harbor, then over to the sand bar at Paugus Bay. So I might have missed what the original poster observed. I settled on Ellacoya as there were only two other boats anchored into the wind.
Immersed in the magic waters of the lake, my mother used to describe it as
"velvetine". Ah Winni!
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Old 08-16-2021, 10:18 PM   #29
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Default A good boater knows...

When the electronics fail, how to use the more reliable manual backup...Charts, compass, binocs, know where the sun is and what that means.

BIG difference between ocean navigation and fresh water. Basic boating courses teach little on marker recognition and navigation. Courses are mostly about safety gear, right-of-way...If luck some MOB skills.

Boat approaching from starboard..."Ok. So port is red like the wine and has the same letters as left, I think that's right...No, right is starboard...I am now confused as to who has the RIGHT-of-way".

Good boating skills are based on knowledge acquired and time spent using it. Those little brain cells need imprinting by experience.

A casual boater, encountering a marker, or an approaching boater, is trying to remember their courses....Time not well spent.
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Old 08-17-2021, 09:41 AM   #30
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I boat exclusively in salt water now and there are plenty of mistakes made here too. There were two brand-new millionish dollar boats at our marina this year and both ended up crashing into rocks within days of each other. Both have the latest fancy electronic/control/navigation/radar suites that cost well over $100,000. One has three outboards and was fixed within a week. The other has Volvo Penta IPS pod drives and one of the pods was torn completely from the boat. If it's not totaled, it won't likely be repaired until next season.

One thing that always astounds me is the shockingly low percentage of boaters, even those with years of experience, that don't know how to tie a basic cleat hitch. They all can secure the boat, but the majority of knots I see will jam if there's tension on the line, a proper cleat hitch will not jam. Another common problem I see is really short dock lines. Dock lines should be as long as practical to allow the boat to move up and down with wakes and waves. Going straight down from a boat cleat to a dock cleat is the worst way to tie a boat.
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Old 08-17-2021, 10:31 AM   #31
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Are you sure they didn't do it to make a ''statement''?
It seems that everything that we are helping build on the lake now is about making a ''statement''. It is their money, so I try and comply... but when they ask what I think... I am honest.

It may be that the boater realizes that the woodies are owned by people that are higher up the pecking order.
Are you serious? I'm in my 30s and just restored a gorgeous 1948 Chris Craft Deluxe. I put months of blood, sweat, and tears into that boat and it's finally almost ready and yet you think I'm higher up the pecking order? I've seen your posts, you bring very limited value to this forum.
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Old 08-17-2021, 11:06 AM   #32
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Are you serious? I'm in my 30s and just restored a gorgeous 1948 Chris Craft Deluxe. I put months of blood, sweat, and tears into that boat and it's finally almost ready and yet you think I'm higher up the pecking order? I've seen your posts, you bring very limited value to this forum.
Incredible amount of work on that type of restoration. I grew up sailing and working on my dad's 1905 gaff-rigged yawl. My God, the brightwork. Holy crap! But it was a thing of beauty. What will you call her? I definitely hope I see it on the lake...
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Old 08-17-2021, 11:20 AM   #33
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Incredible amount of work on that type of restoration. I grew up sailing and working on my dad's 1905 gaff-rigged yawl. My God, the brightwork. Holy crap! But it was a thing of beauty. What will you call her? I definitely hope I see it on the lake...
Name after my grandmother This was before getting put on the trailer and off to get her power plant back in. The level of finish work that goes in from sanding and fairing, to taping, staining, sealing, varnishing, sanding, varnishing, etc. is amazing. Over 20 coats of varnish, just waiting for the engine to be mounted and the upholstery (original) to arrive before putting it all back together! Very excited to get it on the water soon, although maybe I should just keep it in my garage since I don't want people to think I'm higher up the pecking order now that I own one.
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Old 08-17-2021, 11:38 AM   #34
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Name after my grandmother This was before getting put on the trailer and off to get her power plant back in. The level of finish work that goes in from sanding and fairing, to taping, staining, sealing, varnishing, sanding, varnishing, etc. is amazing. Over 20 coats of varnish, just waiting for the engine to be mounted and the upholstery (original) to arrive before putting it all back together! Very excited to get it on the water soon, although maybe I should just keep it in my garage since I don't want people to think I'm higher up the pecking order now that I own one.
GORGEOUS! Please send more pics

Full disclosure: I'm not worthy! I thought about buying a sailboat with a fiberglass hull but lots of other woodwork. The price wasn't so bad, but when the seller described the annual maintenance (just maintenance, no restoration), I fell off my chair and went all fiberglass. So my hat is off!
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Old 08-17-2021, 11:40 AM   #35
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Are you serious? I'm in my 30s and just restored a gorgeous 1948 Chris Craft Deluxe. I put months of blood, sweat, and tears into that boat and it's finally almost ready and yet you think I'm higher up the pecking order? I've seen your posts, you bring very limited value to this forum.
Yes. Wood boat enthusiasts are higher up the pecking order because of the time they donate to passion.
Anyone can purchase a boat, but a wooden boat requires a real commitment.
So wooden boat owners are higher up the pecking order.

It has nothing to do with age or money... it has to do with passion.
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Old 08-17-2021, 12:03 PM   #36
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Yes. Wood boat enthusiasts are higher up the pecking order because of the time they donate to passion.
Anyone can purchase a boat, but a wooden boat requires a real commitment.
So wooden boat owners are higher up the pecking order.

It has nothing to do with age or money... it has to do with passion.
I have a passion for wooden boats, that doesn't make me any better or worse than anyone else (nor higher up whatever pecking order you're referring to). Please stop always try to compare people to wealth or some hierarchy of entitled, you're making yourself look worse every time. Life's much better enjoyed rather than comparing who's better than who.
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Old 08-17-2021, 12:16 PM   #37
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Not better or worse.
Higher up a pecking order.

This isn't wealth.

For instance, a fiberglass door cost more than a wood door... but those choosing a wood door understand (hopefully) the higher level of commitment that you must have. The wood door will require refinishing and a higher level of maintenance over time.

The time one spends toward an endeavor and the skill/knowledge acquired in what separates the groups.
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Old 09-01-2021, 04:35 PM   #38
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So my father grew up on the ocean, (Hough's Neck in Quincy), and spent his youth till early 20's sailing around Boston Harbor. Then came WWII and he spent a number of years in the Navy. Bottom line, he was experienced when it came to Ocean navigation and markers, but when he bought his first boat on the lake in 1974, he was clueless on NH inland waters navigation and markers. We had just passed the end of Governor's Island heading towards The Broads. My mother and I were in the front of their new 18' Wellcraft bowrider and my father was driving. I was 12 at the time. My mother and I happened to suddenly notice all the huge boulders below us and screamed, "ROCKS!!" My father slammed it into neutral. When we all put our hearts back in our chests, we paddled our way out of The Witches. The only thing that saved our bacon was that it was early May and the water was high.

That was our major life lesson on Winnipesaukee navigation!
Always respect the lake. As soon as you don't...

I've been boating here since I was a kid and recently moved here full time. I've probably used the boat 30+ days this summer and (knock on wood) the shenanigans I've witnessed have been mostly harmless/hilarious, like the guy in the Yamaha who couldn't square up to the wolfeboro gas dock to save his life. (You know, the really wide one with plenty of nav room all around it?)
The poor gas girl had to help whip him backwards around the corner by rope.

What concerns me are people like this in emergency situations. They do dumb things like gun it and hit people.

Anyway,back to the witches: My first time back here after many years was 2018. I rented a boat that year and was coming out of Paugus to head towards Ellacoya, where my rental house was. Keep in mind, I have years of boating experience, but I ended up swinging all the way around Governors island, ending up in Meredith. I noticed a few rocks along the way and moved on.
(We can just bury that part of story and pretend I ended up in Meredith on purpose

On the way back, I took the non bridge route around governors again and sort of casually turned when I saw rocks sticking out of the water.
It was then that it hit me how easily people end up in the witches:

Now that I'm local, I know exactly where it is at all times. The damn thing is over 30 acres and is easy to circle around, but it is so big, it's not apparent to noobs that those markers are around a circle. One could easily mistake the far ends as noting a hazard between the witches and timber island, leading them to head straight into the witches--if they don't see the other markers. The spacing of the markers is wide enough that many can't correlate them as a circle.

I know there is a fine line between preserving the natural beauty of the lake and filling it with signs, but it's actually surprising that it isn't marked more obviously.
But I'll digress: Perhaps it's best for this lake to maintain a Darwin factor to keep the dumbs away
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Old 09-01-2021, 05:15 PM   #39
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I've said this before. The Withes are only significant because they have a sexy name, like the Graveyard. I doubt there are any more groundings there than many other places.
FWIW, in the sixties, Marine Patrol put a ring of orange barrels with whit reflectors all around the Witches, as a second barrier or double navaid. I guess they decided it didn't help as the barrels were removed a few years later. People routinely hit rocks north of Eagle Island, but we don't hear about it much because there is no sexy name.
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