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Old 03-20-2019, 12:37 PM   #1
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Default Alcohol and Boating Don't mix

I know this did not happen on the lake but there is a boating lesson to be learned.

At Fort Myers Beach a boat got stuck on a sandbar. In the area where the accident happened there is a sandbar about 50 feet offshore that runs parallel to the shore. The depth varies between 1 and 3 feet depending upon the tides.

The operator trimmed up the three outboards and tried to power off of the sandbar. A woman attempting to push the boat fell into the moving propellers.

A sad story and a tough way to go.

https://www.nbc-2.com/story/40136328...ani-kai-resort
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Old 03-20-2019, 01:50 PM   #2
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Default The press loves misery

The press loves misery. Bet you can't find a story about thousands of boaters having a fun, safe day on the water.
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Old 03-20-2019, 01:59 PM   #3
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I know this did not happen on the lake but there is a boating lesson to be learned.

At Fort Myers Beach a boat got stuck on a sandbar. In the area where the accident happened there is a sandbar about 50 feet offshore that runs parallel to the shore. The depth varies between 1 and 3 feet depending upon the tides.

The operator trimmed up the three outboards and tried to power off of the sandbar. A woman attempting to push the boat fell into the moving propellers.

A sad story and a tough way to go.

https://www.nbc-2.com/story/40136328...ani-kai-resort
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Old 03-20-2019, 05:50 PM   #4
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Alcohol sucks period. All it does is make (otherwise intelligent) people STUPID, and destroy lives... IMHO
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Old 03-20-2019, 06:47 PM   #5
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The press loves misery. Bet you can't find a story about thousands of boaters having a fun, safe day on the water.
Sad, but true. Imagine a news broadcast that had nothing but positive, inspiring news to report on... Would it survive???
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Old 03-21-2019, 05:06 PM   #6
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Alcohol does not suck, alcohol abuse is what sucks. If you are impaired you should not be driving ANYTHING not even a kids Big Wheel.

But even impaired, only the stupidest of the gene pool would get out and push a boat with the engines running, or ask someone to do that. (Drunk people would just take a nap until the tide came in.)
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Old 03-21-2019, 06:24 PM   #7
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Alcohol does not suck, alcohol abuse is what sucks. If you are impaired you should not be driving ANYTHING not even a kids Big Wheel.

But even impaired, only the stupidest of the gene pool would get out and push a boat with the engines running, or ask someone to do that. (Drunk people would just take a nap until the tide came in.)
So by your logic, Heroin is ok too? It's just Heroin "abuse" that sucks?? A drug is a drug. No difference between the two, other than one is legal now, and the other will be eventually the way this society is going...
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Old 03-21-2019, 08:21 PM   #8
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The press loves misery. Bet you can't find a story about thousands of boaters having a fun, safe day on the water.
Understatement of the day ! Nothing more negative than watching the news.
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Old 03-21-2019, 08:52 PM   #9
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So by your logic, Heroin is ok too? It's just Heroin "abuse" that sucks?? A drug is a drug. No difference between the two, other than one is legal now, and the other will be eventually the way this society is going...
Really? So now sitting and having a glass of wine is the same as shooting up?

Way to go.
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Old 03-21-2019, 10:25 PM   #10
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People just like negative news, this thread has @850 views compared to the volleyball thread which has only a little over 100.
Look at the amount of views for the latest threads, negative threads get more views than positive ones.
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Old 03-22-2019, 05:56 AM   #11
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I'm not against having a couple of cold ones as long as no driver is impaired but the golden rule on my boat is......if anyone is in the water near the boat,motors are off.
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Old 03-22-2019, 06:43 AM   #12
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Going in the water behind the boat with the motors running to push it off a sand bar?
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Old 03-22-2019, 08:15 AM   #13
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So by your logic, Heroin is ok too? It's just Heroin "abuse" that sucks?? A drug is a drug. No difference between the two, other than one is legal now, and the other will be eventually the way this society is going...
Oxycodone (a legal drug) is a common synthetic form of heroin. Many people take drugs containing it for pain relief and get addicted. When doctors notice that these people are addicted, they stop writing scripts for it. That's when people switch to heroin, which to the addict, has the same exact effect as legal opioids. That's the main cause of the current opioid epidemic.

Yes, I realize that there are (and always will be) people that will become addicted to heroin without ever having a prescription for any opiod. I imagine the wide availability of the stuff makes that much more common than it used to be.
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Old 03-22-2019, 08:30 AM   #14
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People just like negative news, this thread has @850 views compared to the volleyball thread which has only a little over 100.
Look at the amount of views for the latest threads, negative threads get more views than positive ones.
Well, the fact is that this website is about the lake and to many people that is boating and enjoying the lake. So it is only natural that a post with the subject of boating would draw more attention than a thread about volleyball.

I think any threads which comment on the lake, boating, and regulations affecting the people who use the lake, will draw more attention than others not related to those subjects..
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Old 03-22-2019, 08:56 AM   #15
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Well, the fact is that this website is about the lake and to many people that is boating and enjoying the lake. So it is only natural that a post with the subject of boating would draw more attention than a thread about volleyball.

I think any threads which comment on the lake, boating, and regulations affecting the people who use the lake, will draw more attention than others not related to those subjects..
How about the thread "City of Laconia home rentals", it has received over 11,000 views?
That thread isn't about boating.

The reality is that news agencies use data statics as to what people view so that advertisers will get the most bang for their buck. Even this forum could be used by how many viewers review certain threads.
So, the more negative news the more viewers equal more products being looked at.
Look at Fox and CNN News, all negative news from opposing side. They get the most viewers which turns into more money from advertisers.
That was my point for the comment I made.
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Old 03-22-2019, 10:50 AM   #16
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Going in the water behind the boat with the motors running to push it off a sand bar?
"Hold muh beer"...

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Old 03-22-2019, 11:52 AM   #17
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"Hold muh beer"...

Sounds like a man with much experience.
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Old 03-22-2019, 06:34 PM   #18
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Really? So now sitting and having a glass of wine is the same as shooting up?

Way to go.
The only difference between the alcohol in the wine and shooting up heroin is "Perception". The FACT is that they are BOTH dangerous, potentially deadly drugs. Many people have died from both, although that doesn't mean if you do either one you will die. I will attempt to explain with this analogy, although it is not perfect. Bernie Madoff is your glass of wine. He is sophisticated, classy, extravagant, sly, cunning, charming, successful, charismatic, and likeable. He wears a suit and tie and belongs to fancy, expensive country clubs, drives expensive cars, and knows a lot of important people. So automatically, your perception is that he can be trusted to invest your money and look out for your best interests, right?? HE'S NEVER GOING TO HURT YOU.
You want what he has, so you give him your money. Years go by and things seem to be good (perception), until one day it all catches up to him, and you come to the realization that he lost all your money, and in some cases, completely destroyed some people. This is where the analogy is not completely accurate. To my knowledge, Bernie didn't kill anybody, where alcohol does. Alcohol doesn't always kill its victims, sometimes it just destroys them like Bernie did to his clientele. Either way, it's devastating. It may take years, but eventually, without you even realizing it is happening to you, it destroys, or kills you. Obviously there are always going to be some people that never have a problem with alcohol, but imho, they are few and far between and there are far more people that can't handle it responsibly, than there are that can. Many people will probably not agree with that, just my opinion. On the other hand, in my analogy, the perception of heroin is Charlie Manson. (I know Charlie didn't actually do any of the killings which is another reason why the analogy is not perfect) However, the perception is killer, bad news, loser's, homelessness, dangerous, dark alley's, crazy, brutal suffering, no future, stay away, because you know it will destroy, or perhaps even kill you quite quickly. That is heroin in most people's eyes. Either way, both Bernie and Charlie ended up in the same place, just like alcohol and heroin can both bring you to the same place, JUST IN DIFFERENT WAYS... That's why I think alcohol sucks, because it is so cunning, which in my eyes, actually makes it worse than the hard core "killer" drugs. And please, don't misunderstand, I have nothing against people that drink. Just like hunting, I could never shoot an animal, but I'll be there to eat the meat!! Live, and let live. To each his own, Live Free or Die. Sorry, didn't mean to go on a rant, just a very passionate subject to me that a lot of people don't quite understand.

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Old 03-22-2019, 07:28 PM   #19
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To my knowledge, Bernie didn't kill anybody, where alcohol does. Alcohol doesn't always kill its victims, sometimes it just destroys them like Bernie did to his clientele. Either way, it's devastating. It may take years, but eventually, without you even realizing it is happening to you, it destroys, or kills you. Obviously there are always going to be some people that never have a problem with alcohol, but imho, they are few and far between and there are far more people that can't handle it responsibly, than there are that can.
I will respectfully disagree with your post.

Your contention that alcohol either kills you or destroys you and exceptions are few and far between is absurd. The vast majority of people who consume alcoholic beverages never have a problem that has a negative effect on them or their family. The consumption of alcohol is widely accepted in most every social circle, and heroin use is not.

People who use alcohol in social situations are entirely different than a person who uses heroin. Every week in Laconia there are numerous overdoses that require Narcan to keep the victim alive. There are approximately 100 overdoses per month in New Hampshire and in 2018 there were over 340 overdose deaths in NH. . It is a rare occasion when someone consumes enough alcohol that medical intervention becomes necessary.

Heroin and alcohol are two entirely different things.
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Old 03-22-2019, 08:29 PM   #20
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I will respectfully disagree with your post.

Your contention that alcohol either kills you or destroys you and exceptions are few and far between is absurd. The vast majority of people who consume alcoholic beverages never have a problem that has a negative effect on them or their family. The consumption of alcohol is widely accepted in most every social circle, and heroin use is not.

People who use alcohol in social situations are entirely different than a person who uses heroin. Every week in Laconia there are numerous overdoses that require Narcan to keep the victim alive. There are approximately 100 overdoses per month in New Hampshire and in 2018 there were over 340 overdose deaths in NH. . It is a rare occasion when someone consumes enough alcohol that medical intervention becomes necessary.

Heroin and alcohol are two entirely different things.
Bernie and Charlie are two entirely different people too, yet, they are the same. A drug is a drug, and alcohol is a drug. It's just not thought of as a drug because it's legal. (PERCEPTION!!). Drugs, like cars for example, come in all different shapes and sizes, but in the end they are all the same. Alcohol kills more people than all other drugs combined. That is not a misprint, read it again..., Alcohol kills more people than all other drugs combined. You don't have to believe me, LOOK IT UP!! It just doesn't get reported on because the "PERCEPTION" is that it's legal, and "accepted" by society, which makes it "OK", (just like you said!!), and the opioid epidemic right now is front page news because it is a relatively "new" problem in society. I'm not going to get into a pissing contest with everyone over this subject, just do some research. The information is out there if you are interested in educating yourself on it. Don't go by "PERCEPTION", it is NOT always reality... And with that, (like Forrest Gump says), "That's all I have to say about that".

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Old 03-23-2019, 04:10 AM   #21
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Well, the fact is that this website is about the lake and to many people that is boating and enjoying the lake. So it is only natural that a post with the subject of boating would draw more attention than a thread about volleyball.

I think any threads which comment on the lake, boating, and regulations affecting the people who use the lake, will draw more attention than others not related to those subjects..
Seems like you've managed to turn this into a Ft Myers website , ? Somehow into an Alcohol debate
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Old 03-23-2019, 05:26 AM   #22
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Bernie and Charlie are two entirely different people too, yet, they are the same. A drug is a drug, and alcohol is a drug. It's just not thought of as a drug because it's legal. (PERCEPTION!!). Drugs, like cars for example, come in all different shapes and sizes, but in the end they are all the same. Alcohol kills more people than all other drugs combined. That is not a misprint, read it again..., Alcohol kills more people than all other drugs combined. You don't have to believe me, LOOK IT UP!! It just doesn't get reported on because the "PERCEPTION" is that it's legal, and "accepted" by society, which makes it "OK", (just like you said!!), and the opioid epidemic right now is front page news because it is a relatively "new" problem in society. I'm not going to get into a pissing contest with everyone over this subject, just do some research. The information is out there if you are interested in educating yourself on it. Don't go by "PERCEPTION", it is NOT always reality... And with that, (like Forrest Gump says), "That's all I have to say about that".
I understand where you're coming from because I, too, see alcohol as a minimized substance--some of the results of my school's drug and alcohol surveys are scary, especially in terms of how normalized alcohol is in my students' lives (#1 beverage associated with kids birthday parties = beer). The depth of social conditioning with alcohol is incredible--it's impossible to attend a party, cookout, sporting match, or almost any other event (including boating) without alcohol being present.

That being said, I do see a distinct difference between alcohol and harder drug use. It is entirely possible, and the overall norm, for a successful life to involve the periodic use of alcohol. It is virtually impossible, however, to use heroin, fentanyl, crack, meth, etc. even for a short time without being utterly destroyed.

I say this as a teacher who has had hundreds of kids go through my life using alcohol without deadly consequences (there are certainly financial, domestic, etc.) but having lost 5 graduates alone this year to opioid ODs, including one just yesterday, who lost his father similarly a few years back.

Though we shouldn't minimize the damage caused by all drugs, some are absolutely more damaging than others.

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Old 03-23-2019, 06:00 AM   #23
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I understand where you're coming from because I, too, see alcohol as a minimized substance--some of the results of my school's drug and alcohol surveys are scary, especially in terms of how normalized alcohol is in my students' lives (#1 beverage associated with kids birthday parties = beer). The depth of social conditioning with alcohol is incredible--it's impossible to attend a party, cookout, sporting match, or almost any other event (including boating) without alcohol being present.

That being said, I do see a distinct difference between alcohol and harder drug use. It is entirely possible, and the overall norm, for a successful life to involve the periodic use of alcohol. It is virtually impossible, however, to use heroin, fentanyl, crack, meth, etc. even for a short time without being utterly destroyed.

I say this as a teacher who has had hundreds of kids go through my life using alcohol without deadly consequences (there are certainly financial, domestic, etc.) but having lost 5 graduates alone this year to opioid ODs, including one just yesterday, who lost his father similarly a few years back.

Though we shouldn't minimize the damage caused by all drugs, some are absolutely more damaging than others.

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Although some people escape the "grasp" of alcohol with seemingly (there's that word "perception" again!!) no problems, unlike "hard drugs", whether you realize it or not, you're making my case... Alcohol related financial and domestic problems are symptoms of alcoholism that most people fail to realize. It's called "Denial", and it is the addicts biggest problem, sometimes even worse than the drug itself. Sounds crazy, but very true when you think about it. Alcohol (like Bernie Madoff) comes at you slowly, silently, gently, in most cases. Where Heroin (Charlie Manson), comes in hard and fast. Destroys, or kills you quick, right away, no mercy!! Either way, you are just as ruined, or God forbid, dead. Alcohol however, can come in just as quick and deadly as herion sometimes. Just ask the surviving member's of the op family. ALCOHOL IS VERY CUNNING... Can't stress that enough. A lot of people that have a drinking problem, don't even know it, (because of "perception"and the inability of being HONEST with themselves... Denial.). Think about it. I will give you another example of how cunning alcohol can be. I had a family member who went to work every day of his adult life with a glass of vodka in his hand. It was "normal", no big deal, right?? He owned his own restaurant and bar. The "perception" was that he had no problem with alcohol, however, he drank every day, all day, for his entire adult life that I knew him (30+ years). He NEVER missed work, was very successful and responsible, and seemed completely in control of every aspect of his life. However, he could not function without his glass of vodka. He was dependent on alcohol and didn't even realize it. One day, drunk, he slipped on ice and hit his head hard on the pavement. He was rushed to the hospital and was admitted. While laying in his hospital bed, he asked his wife to bring him in his alcohol, but she refused. So with that, he called his favorite liquor store ( who he was on a first name basis with, obviously) and had them deliver it to him in the hospital. To make a long story short, he ended up dying in the hospital from "complications" from his fall. He was in his early 60's. His wife later found all the bottles of vodka he had delivered to himself when she was collecting all his belongings. He had them hidden around his hospital room. So my question is this: Did he die from alcoholism, or falling and hitting his head?? You know my answer, what is yours...?? I don't mean "you" specifically thinkxingu anywhere in this post, I'm just asking the question(s) in general to whoever wants to ask themselves the question(s). The funeral could have been such a teachable moment for alcohol abuse, but unfortunately, no one saw it (there's that word "perception" again...), and the funeral was a huge "drinkfest" of celebration to his life. Everyone got wasted continuously "toasting" to different aspects of his life!! He was a great guy, and I miss him dearly, but to this day, as far as anyone that knew him is concerned, he died from his fall, and alcohol doesn't even play a role into his death whatsoever... How cunning is that...??? So sad.

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Old 03-23-2019, 08:07 AM   #24
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Really? So now sitting and having a glass of wine is the same as shooting up?

Way to go.
Sometimes. There's a "little" more to it than that...
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Old 03-23-2019, 09:03 AM   #25
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Sounds like a man with much experience.
One beer made me happy—two beers put me to sleep—and NO beers when on the highway, racing cars, or boating. Even crewing on a long cruise, there are too many boat-handling responsibilities for a sailor.

Like texting, there is much inattention among those captains who drink, so I disagree with those who take in alcohol while at the helm of a powerboat.

Averaging up my most alcohol-using years, I doubt I've consumed one beer a day. (Alternatively, one glass of wine per day—and probably far less of either). If you're over 65, you're wisely skipping alcohol altogether.

As for societal effects, heroin rarely takes the lives of innocents—which can't be said for alcohol. (Examples: the boating lives lost on Lake Winnipesaukee and on the roadways).

One's very first drink affects judgment!

(So there's the link to "cunning" mentioned earlier).
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Old 03-23-2019, 11:44 AM   #26
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Really? So now sitting and having a glass of wine is the same as shooting up?

Way to go.
I am not advocating for a ban of either or the legalization. However, it is interesting how and what substances are banned, legalized, banned again, etc. without, IMHO, paying much attention to the past. Good or bad, alcohol, nicotine, and opiates are addictive.

Opiates, https://www.smithsonianmag.com/histo...ion-180967673/

Alcohol, https://www.cato.org/publications/po...on-was-failure

Neither is the definitive statement but do show how opiate and alcohol use has been debated in US society for generations. My guess, and it is just that, is if nicotine, alcohol, or opiates were “discovered “ today, all would be banned or highly regulated.

To return to the original post, I don’t think anyone should drink and drive - one drink when driving is one too many. I realize not everyone shares my belief, but to me it’s just not worth it.
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Old 03-23-2019, 03:05 PM   #27
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Legally, does NH d.u.i. law get applied and enforced any different for kayaks/canoes/rowboats/small sailboats/sups - all without a motor than for a boat with a motor?

As I understand it, the NH open container law does not apply to boats, so maybe d.u.i. is enforced different for a rower than for a motor boater?

Rowing has you sitting backwards, so you don't really see where you are going, but see where you've been ....row row row ..... oopsie-doopsie! .... and just hope you don't row into something. As a rower, are you legally supposed to keep a forward look-out while seated backwards?

If you get arrested for rowing a row boat while d.u.i., will that apply to your car insurance?
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Old 03-23-2019, 03:36 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by fatlazyless View Post
Legally, does NH d.u.i. law get applied and enforced any different for kayaks/canoes/rowboats/small sailboats/sups - all without a motor than for a boat with a motor?

As I understand it, the NH open container law does not apply to boats, so maybe d.u.i. is enforced different for a rower than for a motor boater?

Rowing has you sitting backwards, so you don't really see where you are going, but see where you've been ....row row row ..... oopsie-doopsie! .... and just hope you don't row into something. As a rower, are you legally supposed to keep a forward look-out while seated backwards?

If you get arrested for rowing a row boat while d.u.i., will that apply to your car insurance?
How about floating on a noodle while intoxicated?
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Old 03-23-2019, 04:31 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Rusty View Post
How about floating on a noodle while intoxicated?
...... now seriously, dat's one heck of a dud qusteon!!!

Likewise, and similarly, all at da dame tyme ..... how's about riding that Inflat-a-Bull ..... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EU71y5jGdY for $36.99 ..... measures 94"x77"x32"

.... and worth every penny ..... I should know .... I have one .... and cannot wait for the ice to melt ..... and you know what

..... riding the Inflat-a-Bull gets easier to do ..... with each beer you drink .... honestly ..... you become one with the Inflat-a-Bull! ..... ride em Inflat-a-Bull! ..... just get'n up and onto the bull ..... in water over 6' deep is very challenging ..... it takes practice! ..... destined to become an Olympics event!

For a well spent $36.99 ...... with its' dynamic 3-point, anchor design ..... bobbing up and down the Winnipesaukee waves and boat wakes ...... the Inflat-a-Bull .... is a lot of fun ..... and not so easy to ride over incoming big boat wakes and deeper water ..... a real fun challenge especially when done totally sober!
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Last edited by fatlazyless; 03-23-2019 at 07:30 PM.
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Old 03-24-2019, 03:36 AM   #30
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Default How much money did their parents spend....

Quote:
Originally Posted by fatlazyless View Post
...... now seriously, dat's one heck of a dud qusteon!!!

Likewise, and similarly, all at da dame tyme ..... how's about riding that Inflat-a-Bull ..... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EU71y5jGdY for $36.99 ..... measures 94"x77"x32"

.... and worth every penny ..... I should know .... I have one .... and cannot wait for the ice to melt ..... and you know what

..... riding the Inflat-a-Bull gets easier to do ..... with each beer you drink .... honestly ..... you become one with the Inflat-a-Bull! ..... ride em Inflat-a-Bull! ..... just get'n up and onto the bull ..... in water over 6' deep is very challenging ..... it takes practice! ..... destined to become an Olympics event!

For a well spent $36.99 ...... with its' dynamic 3-point, anchor design ..... bobbing up and down the Winnipesaukee waves and boat wakes ...... the Inflat-a-Bull .... is a lot of fun ..... and not so easy to ride over incoming big boat wakes and deeper water ..... a real fun challenge especially when done totally sober!
To get them their edjakation?
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Old 03-24-2019, 06:23 AM   #31
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Say Hey FLL is that a cement bag retaining wall at the waters edge in the video ?
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Old 03-24-2019, 07:11 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by garysanfran View Post
To get them their edjakation?
For gods sake give him a little credit. It took 2 hours 59 minutes of editing for him to get that post out.
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Old 03-24-2019, 01:13 PM   #33
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Default BWI Enforcement

Doesn't matter what sort of vessel. Too much is too much, especially at 6:40 am. Remember this??
https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums...+Lockes+Island
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