Go Back   Winnipesaukee Forum > Winnipesaukee Forums > Boating
Home Forums Gallery Webcams Blogs YouTube Channel Classifieds Calendar Register FAQDonate Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-04-2018, 10:38 PM   #1
rick35
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Bear Island/Merrimack
Posts: 707
Thanks: 54
Thanked 170 Times in 104 Posts
Default Kayak fees

Last week I saw that Fish and Game was looking for people. Tonight I heard on channel 9 they dont have enough money. Someone is proposing a kayak fee as a way of increasing revenue. I even heard that kayakers are hogging the boat ramps. And they dont pay fees! Boaters who pay fees cant use the ramps because there's no parking. Really? This idea has come up before but I dont think it was comsidered. How would they collect fees and how would they enforce it? We dont have enough F&G or marine patrol now. And they'd have to check kayak permits too? Watch out for new legislation and taxes by people who dont boat or kayak. They smell revenue.
rick35 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2018, 04:45 AM   #2
DBreskin
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Wolfeboro NH
Posts: 283
Thanks: 143
Thanked 121 Times in 76 Posts
Default

If the State requires permits for kayaks they should probably include canoes, paddle boards, and anything else that floats.

They could easily raise revenue by ticketing violators of the 150’ rule on Lake Winnipesaukee.
DBreskin is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to DBreskin For This Useful Post:
whalebackpoint'r (09-05-2018)
Old 09-05-2018, 05:12 AM   #3
iw8surf
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 191
Thanks: 12
Thanked 94 Times in 55 Posts
Default

kayak fees, what is this world coming too
iw8surf is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to iw8surf For This Useful Post:
ApS (09-10-2018)
Old 09-05-2018, 06:19 AM   #4
swnoel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 527
Thanks: 83
Thanked 194 Times in 118 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rick35 View Post
Last week I saw that Fish and Game was looking for people. Tonight I heard on channel 9 they dont have enough money. Someone is proposing a kayak fee as a way of increasing revenue. I even heard that kayakers are hogging the boat ramps. And they dont pay fees! Boaters who pay fees cant use the ramps because there's no parking. Really? This idea has come up before but I dont think it was comsidered. How would they collect fees and how would they enforce it? We dont have enough F&G or marine patrol now. And they'd have to check kayak permits too? Watch out for new legislation and taxes by people who dont boat or kayak. They smell revenue.
Just raise property taxes on the waterfront properties in the state... problem solved and the yakers can use the launches for free still!
swnoel is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to swnoel For This Useful Post:
RTTOOL (09-08-2018)
Old 09-05-2018, 07:20 AM   #5
billy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 87
Thanks: 192
Thanked 38 Times in 19 Posts
Default

Or keep kayaks out of the power boat launching sites


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
billy is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to billy For This Useful Post:
Marauder (09-05-2018)
Sponsored Links
Old 09-05-2018, 07:21 AM   #6
joey2665
Senior Member
 
joey2665's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Meredith Bay & LI, NY
Posts: 3,220
Thanks: 1,204
Thanked 1,007 Times in 648 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by swnoel View Post
Just raise property taxes on the waterfront properties in the state... problem solved and the yakers can use the launches for free still!


I hope you are kidding? Waterfront taxes are high enough already. Just because people own waterfront doesn’t mean they need to additionally subsidize Fish and Game.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
joey2665 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2018, 07:25 AM   #7
The Real BigGuy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,097
Thanks: 107
Thanked 409 Times in 243 Posts
Default

Yea, let’s raise taxes on property owners from out of state. That way we residents of NH can once again dump the responsibility of financing our state on others. Heaven forbid we add an income tax and actually have the ability to fully finance the services we provide our residents and visitors!


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
The Real BigGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2018, 07:29 AM   #8
8gv
Senior Member
 
8gv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,002
Thanks: 61
Thanked 700 Times in 455 Posts
Default

This discussion brings to light the concept of taxing the users of goverment services.

Some would argue that only those directly involved in the activity that generates government expense should pay.

Some might contend that it is one for all and all for one so spread out the expense to everyone.

My main concern is revenue and spending efficiency.

For each new dollar brought in, what was the administrative cost to get it?

For each dollar spent, what amount would be considered “waste”?

Last edited by 8gv; 09-05-2018 at 08:10 AM.
8gv is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to 8gv For This Useful Post:
Top-Water (09-05-2018)
Old 09-05-2018, 07:32 AM   #9
Woodsy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Weirs Beach
Posts: 1,946
Thanks: 80
Thanked 968 Times in 431 Posts
Default

NH has always been a "User Fee" type state... I have no problem with making the canoe/kayak/sailboat crowd pay a small fee... a $10 registration sticker would be ok. No silly paperwork to carry...

Woodsy
__________________
The only way to eliminate ignorant behavior is through education. You can't fix stupid.
Woodsy is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Woodsy For This Useful Post:
Hillcountry (09-05-2018), Top-Water (09-05-2018)
Old 09-05-2018, 07:41 AM   #10
billy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 87
Thanks: 192
Thanked 38 Times in 19 Posts
Default Kayak fees

You can launch at most State parks without tying up the ramps and parking areas and you have paid to use the facility


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
billy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2018, 07:52 AM   #11
Hillcountry
Senior Member
 
Hillcountry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: In the hills
Posts: 2,342
Thanks: 1,580
Thanked 761 Times in 456 Posts
Default

I think some kind of sticker for kayakers, canoes,SUPS etc., for $5 or so wouldn’t break anyone’s bank and would help the state coffers as long as the funds went directly to oversee NH lakes and waterways enforcement.
At times, kayaks and the like might pose a danger to boaters by being where they’re not expected to be (middle of the lake)
The issue of these water “vehicles” owners jamming up parking lots which were created for boaters is real. Why not make them pay a fee as well?
They are vehicles designed for moving around on a body of water, the same as a boat. I have also seen fishing kayaks with electric motors for propulsion.
Not sure if these require any registrations but they should as they use a parking space at a lot and cruise the lakes.
No way am I in favor of more govt. but people that use state resources for free should be paying a share. I also believe hike safe cards should be mandatory.
One time on a visit to Ragged Is. the beach on the west side was jammed with kayaks from the camp across the way on Sandy Is. The campers beached their kayaks on a spot that is designed for everyone’s use and left them there while cavorting elsewhere on the island. My family and I had to leave the beach because there was nowhere to enjoy it without tripping over the kayaks.
I called the camp on Sandy island and spoke to a very gracious, “director” about the kayaks and she agreed that the campers should not have blocked access to the resource with their boats. She said this was wrong and assured that the councilors would be told not to do this on their forays on the lake.

Last edited by Hillcountry; 09-05-2018 at 07:00 PM.
Hillcountry is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Hillcountry For This Useful Post:
Top-Water (09-05-2018)
Old 09-05-2018, 07:59 AM   #12
Not to Worry
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 191
Thanks: 93
Thanked 84 Times in 55 Posts
Default Seriously?

I very much doubt that NH will seriously look at implementing a fee for non motorized "boats." I did a quick search and came up with nothing mentioning and fee discussion from any elected official in NH. Maybe it is out there but I could not find it.
Not to Worry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2018, 08:04 AM   #13
Woodsy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Weirs Beach
Posts: 1,946
Thanks: 80
Thanked 968 Times in 431 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Not to Worry View Post
I very much doubt that NH will seriously look at implementing a fee for non motorized "boats." I did a quick search and came up with nothing mentioning and fee discussion from any elected official in NH. Maybe it is out there but I could not find it.
It was on the news last night.... here is a link!


https://www.wmur.com/article/commiss...blems/22987740

Woodsy
__________________
The only way to eliminate ignorant behavior is through education. You can't fix stupid.
Woodsy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2018, 08:37 AM   #14
Seaplane Pilot
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,176
Thanks: 659
Thanked 943 Times in 368 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Real BigGuy View Post
Yea, let’s raise taxes on property owners from out of state. That way we residents of NH can once again dump the responsibility of financing our state on others. Heaven forbid we add an income tax and actually have the ability to fully finance the services we provide our residents and visitors!


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
Feel free to send 6% of your hard-earned income to the State of NH Department of Revenue. I'm sure they'll appreciate it, and may even send you a thank you note. On the other hand, I want to keep the State out of my wallet, so NO INCOME TAX!
Seaplane Pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Seaplane Pilot For This Useful Post:
bostique (09-12-2018), Broken Glass (09-06-2018), Cal Coon (09-05-2018), KPW (09-05-2018), Major (09-05-2018)
Old 09-05-2018, 08:47 AM   #15
Rusty
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,028
Thanks: 603
Thanked 687 Times in 425 Posts
Default

If the government bureaucrats had their way they would require everyones paycheck to be sent to them first so they could take what they want (not need) and give us what's left over.

I vote NO on ANY new taxes for water vehicles!
__________________
It's never crowded along the extra mile.
Rusty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2018, 09:48 AM   #16
Descant
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Merrimack and Welch Island
Posts: 4,003
Thanks: 1,203
Thanked 1,498 Times in 975 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Not to Worry View Post
I very much doubt that NH will seriously look at implementing a fee for non motorized "boats." I did a quick search and came up with nothing mentioning and fee discussion from any elected official in NH. Maybe it is out there but I could not find it.
SB410 (New Title) establishing a commission to study creating a boat safe card; signed by the Governor May 30, 2018. The report is due November 1, 2018, in time for legislation for 2019. A boat safe card, like a hike safe card would be voluntary. That may not be what the commission finds, of course.
It isn't just boat launches that are paid for by power boats. Power boats also pay for invasive species(milfoil) control, and the Navigation Safety Fund (MP) That benefits everybody, swimmers, yakkers, etc. Fish and Game also runs Search and Rescue. I don't know the numbers, but every spring we hear about S & R for accidents on spring rapids, canoes, kayaks, etc. Kayaks found but no knowledge of a paddler. Lost overboard or just the kayak blew away?
Descant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2018, 09:53 AM   #17
FlyingScot
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Tuftonboro and Sudbury, MA
Posts: 2,208
Thanks: 1,108
Thanked 934 Times in 576 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 8gv View Post
This discussion brings to light the concept of taxing the users of goverment services.

Some would argue that only those directly involved in the activity that generates government expense should pay.

Some might contend that it is one for all and all for one so spread out the expense to everyone.

My main concern is revenue and spending efficiency.

For each new dollar brought in, what was the administrative cost to get it?

For each dollar spent, what amount would be considered “waste”?

Lots of good points implied here. If you follow the reasoning, the conclusion would be to increase the fees on boats that currently require registration (this would include my own boat). First, these larger boats have a much bigger "footprint", so owners are bigger users of the lake and associated services. Second, it costs the state nothing to increase the price of a license it already sells.

Also, with respect to fees, the lake is unusual compared to similar resources such as state parks. To walk up Monandnock, just for example, I need to pay $10(?). But I can launch a boat, which has a much bigger impact in every way, for free.
FlyingScot is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to FlyingScot For This Useful Post:
ApS (09-05-2018), Top-Water (09-05-2018)
Old 09-05-2018, 10:09 AM   #18
Woodsy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Weirs Beach
Posts: 1,946
Thanks: 80
Thanked 968 Times in 431 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingScot View Post
Lots of good points implied here. If you follow the reasoning, the conclusion would be to increase the fees on boats that currently require registration (this would include my own boat). First, these larger boats have a much bigger "footprint", so owners are bigger users of the lake and associated services. Second, it costs the state nothing to increase the price of a license it already sells.

Also, with respect to fees, the lake is unusual compared to similar resources such as state parks. To walk up Monandnock, just for example, I need to pay $10(?). But I can launch a boat, which has a much bigger impact in every way, for free.
You don't launch your boat for free... most of the boat ramps are town owned/supported by town taxpayers and are usually only for town taxpayers. The State Ramps are supported & maintained by your boat registration fees and are open to everyone.

I am not a fan of an income tax. I am very ok with the "user Fee" mentality of NH... if you want to use the resource, you can pay to help maintain it. I have long thought Canoes/kayaks/sailboats should pay something... I don't think a $10/yr user fee is going to break anyones bank.

Also, someone mentioned the "Hike Safe" card... there should be one for the human/wind powered watercraft crowd as well!

Woodsy
__________________
The only way to eliminate ignorant behavior is through education. You can't fix stupid.
Woodsy is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Woodsy For This Useful Post:
Cal Coon (09-05-2018)
Old 09-05-2018, 10:24 AM   #19
swnoel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 527
Thanks: 83
Thanked 194 Times in 118 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hillcountry View Post
I think some kind of sticker for kayakers, canoes,SUPS etc., for $5 or so wouldn’t break anyone’s bank
Are you kidding... how will I pay for my $20 lobster roll and $10 craft beer! This is outrageous that anyone should have to pay! Can't wait for democrats to get elected, impeach Trump and give us all the free things they promised! That'll show you all!!
swnoel is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to swnoel For This Useful Post:
Hillcountry (09-05-2018)
Old 09-05-2018, 10:26 AM   #20
Rinkerguy
Senior Member
 
Rinkerguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 121
Thanks: 0
Thanked 33 Times in 24 Posts
Default

If the Fish & Game is successful in taxing canoes and kayaks, what will be next?

Inflatable floats, buggie boards, stand up paddle boards???

The premise is the same, all these are also enjoying the use of our lakes and waterways.

This needs to stop now, before it gets out of hand
Rinkerguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2018, 10:59 AM   #21
8gv
Senior Member
 
8gv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,002
Thanks: 61
Thanked 700 Times in 455 Posts
Default

“My advice for those who die...

declare the pennies on there eyes”
8gv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2018, 11:52 AM   #22
tis
Senior Member
 
tis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,386
Thanks: 716
Thanked 1,375 Times in 951 Posts
Default

It's true Rinkerguy, they never have enough money. No it wouldn't break anybody to pay a small fee for a kayak or a canoe. But we have a kayak and two canoes and I haven't used any of them at all this year. So I am not sure I would even bother to register them unless I knew I was going to have time to use them. As far as an income tax, NH does have an income tax. BPT (Business Profit Tax) and BET (Business Enterprise Tax) are nothing more than income taxes on businesses and business and professional people. And I really don't think state and federal government should be buying millions of dollars of private land.
tis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2018, 01:06 PM   #23
Slickcraft
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Welch Island and West Alton
Posts: 3,210
Thanks: 1,166
Thanked 1,999 Times in 913 Posts
Default

I don't mind the power boat related F&G fee, we use the boat all season long.

We have a canoe and kayaks that are used 2 or 3 times a year. Like many they are not launched at a ramp.

I have never seen paddle sport folk clogging a launch ramp. In general they could usually launch to the side of a power boat ramp. On a busy day it is the power boats using a ramp one after another.

OK F&G is underfunded and we do need those guys and gals around. So our two kayaks are the answer?

There is a voluntary "hike safe card" that also applies to paddling. If you don't buy a card then you may have to pay for any rescue.
https://wildlife.state.nh.us/safe/
Slickcraft is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Slickcraft For This Useful Post:
Top-Water (09-05-2018)
Old 09-05-2018, 01:14 PM   #24
fatlazyless
Senior Member
 
fatlazyless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,506
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 291
Thanked 950 Times in 692 Posts
Talking ... a $20 annual NH water usage stamp!

Considering the White Mountain National Forest now charges $30/year for a vehicle parking sticker that gets mounted on the lower right corner of the windshield, the State of New Hampshire could consider an annual $20 water usage stamp for non-motorized vessels like canoes, kayaks, rowboats, sailboats, peddle boats, stand up paddle boards, and others.

Just designate the money goes toward lake-river-ocean related items like the NH Fish & Game Dept, launch ramps, and removing invasive species, and other items like saving the loons, and keeping phosphorus out of the lake.

Paying nothing gets you nothing, and paying $20 would help pay for everything, plus the MP could fine you $116.88, first offense, for stand up paddle boarding without a water usage stamp ....... that's right! ...... slap the cuffs on, Barney, we got us a new customer!
__________________
... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake!
fatlazyless is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to fatlazyless For This Useful Post:
FlyingScot (09-06-2018)
Old 09-05-2018, 01:20 PM   #25
8gv
Senior Member
 
8gv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,002
Thanks: 61
Thanked 700 Times in 455 Posts
Default

How would a kayak sticker regulation be applied to folks coming from away?

(A little NFL lingo there )
8gv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2018, 01:29 PM   #26
webmaster
Moderator
 
webmaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,427
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 437
Thanked 3,697 Times in 820 Posts
Default

This issue has come up before:

2006:
https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums...ead.php?t=3998

2014:
https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums...ad.php?t=16868

2016: You're reading it!
webmaster is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to webmaster For This Useful Post:
Hillcountry (09-05-2018)
Old 09-05-2018, 01:37 PM   #27
fatlazyless
Senior Member
 
fatlazyless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,506
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 291
Thanked 950 Times in 692 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slickcraft

OK F&G is underfunded and we do need those guys and gals around. So our two kayaks are the answer?

There is a voluntary "hike safe card" that also applies to paddling. If you don't buy a card then you may have to pay for any rescue.
https://wildlife.state.nh.us/safe/
When you register a motorboat in NH for the year, you get the same benefits or services as buying the $25/35 hike safe card such as getting carried in a litter down the Lions Head Trail on Mt Washington which would be a very steep and difficult rescue carry ..... no fool'n!
...............

People from away, would need to purchase a non-motorized water usage stamp for $20/year ....... could pay with four-$5, two-$10, 20-$1 .... their choice!

Do people from away have to purchase a $45 fishing license ........ yes, they do.
__________________
... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake!
fatlazyless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2018, 02:07 PM   #28
noreast
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 648
Thanks: 316
Thanked 120 Times in 93 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 8gv View Post
How would a kayak sticker regulation be applied to folks coming from away?

(A little NFL lingo there )
You have to purchase a stamp before you put your boat in the water in Maine if you're an out of stater, even though the registration is reciprocal.
noreast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2018, 02:13 PM   #29
tis
Senior Member
 
tis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,386
Thanks: 716
Thanked 1,375 Times in 951 Posts
Default

In the "old days" every boat that went on the lake had to register in this state. Now of course they don't.
tis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2018, 02:32 PM   #30
fatlazyless
Senior Member
 
fatlazyless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,506
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 291
Thanked 950 Times in 692 Posts
Default

Me-thinks that 1987 was the last year with the NH little metal boat license plate that was a mini version of a car license plate. T-h-o-s-e ...... w-e-r-e ..... t-h-e ......g-o-o-d ...... o-l-d ...... d-a-y-s ........ (Archie Bunker sings)

Getting the kayak sticker to actually stick to the kayak would be the responsibilty of the paddler ........ no sticker ....... you must pay a $116.88 fine, first offense ....... and your paddle is confiscated ......so, you is out there without a paddle! ........ rots-o-ruck!
__________________
... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake!
fatlazyless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2018, 02:44 PM   #31
tis
Senior Member
 
tis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,386
Thanks: 716
Thanked 1,375 Times in 951 Posts
Default

Sorry fll, I meant every power boat had to be registered here even if they had it registered in another state. I remember a lot of people didn't like it if they were just coming up for a week or two on vacation. Boats other than power boats didn't have to be registered at all. Although I think we mostly had row boats in those days, something you don't see too much any more. I don't remember any kayaks.
tis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2018, 04:58 PM   #32
Not to Worry
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 191
Thanks: 93
Thanked 84 Times in 55 Posts
Default Still think no fee will ever happen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodsy View Post
It was on the news last night.... here is a link!


https://www.wmur.com/article/commiss...blems/22987740

Woodsy

Thanks for the link I did listen to and now understand where this came from. I personally do not believe they will place a free on a non motorized kayak canoe, etc. Having said that I am sure they will find additional dollars somewhere. Maybe more fees on snowmobiles, boats, fishing, hunting licenses etc...but not kayaks. Least that is what I think.
Not to Worry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2018, 06:29 PM   #33
Biggd
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Waltham Ma./Meredith NH
Posts: 3,733
Thanks: 1,952
Thanked 1,068 Times in 673 Posts
Thumbs down

Just no, to more fees!
Biggd is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Biggd For This Useful Post:
CTYankee (09-11-2018)
Old 09-05-2018, 06:36 PM   #34
billy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 87
Thanks: 192
Thanked 38 Times in 19 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Not to Worry View Post
Thanks for the link I did listen to and now understand where this came from. I personally do not believe they will place a free on a non motorized kayak canoe, etc. Having said that I am sure they will find additional dollars somewhere. Maybe more fees on snowmobiles, boats, fishing, hunting licenses etc...but not kayaks. Least that is what I think.
...I have to register my 12' Sunfish sailboat why not my 3 kayaks
billy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2018, 07:05 PM   #35
Hillcountry
Senior Member
 
Hillcountry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: In the hills
Posts: 2,342
Thanks: 1,580
Thanked 761 Times in 456 Posts
Default

Pay up, suckers!
Attached Images
 
Hillcountry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2018, 07:53 PM   #36
ApS
Senior Member
 
ApS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Florida (Sebring & Keys), Wolfeboro
Posts: 5,780
Thanks: 2,078
Thanked 735 Times in 530 Posts
Exclamation While We Talk, Concord Plots...!

If fees are collected for "use", why aren't fees calculated for the number of acres-per-second a boat would use—before it would become an infringement of other watercraft rights?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slickcraft View Post
I don't mind the power boat related F&G fee, we use the boat all season long. We have a canoe and kayaks that are used 2 or 3 times a year. Like many they are not launched at a ramp. I have never seen paddle sport folk clogging a launch ramp. In general they could usually launch to the side of a power boat ramp. On a busy day it is the power boats using a ramp one after another. OK F&G is underfunded and we do need those guys and gals around. So our two kayaks are the answer? There is a voluntary "hike safe card" that also applies to paddling. If you don't buy a card then you may have to pay for any rescue.
https://wildlife.state.nh.us/safe/
Years ago, the NH Gazeteer sounded the death knell for canoes on Lake Winnipesaukee. Canoes, though still legal, are justifiably becoming an "endangered species". It's just too difficult to remain upright after being struck by a wake from oversized boats—with their non-empathic skippers. Kayaks have a familiar danger, as recently, a kayak was sliced in half by a distracted "Captain".

Kayaks are somewhat easier to control, but even their days are numbered.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Not to Worry View Post
Thanks for the link I did listen to and now understand where this came from. I personally do not believe they will place a free on a non motorized kayak canoe, etc. Having said that I am sure they will find additional dollars somewhere. Maybe more fees on snowmobiles, boats, fishing, hunting licenses etc...but not kayaks. Least that is what I think.
Concord is reviewing this kayak proposal closely, as they've already spent the funding with which they'd previously absconded—from the NHMP.
ApS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2018, 08:50 PM   #37
Descant
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Merrimack and Welch Island
Posts: 4,003
Thanks: 1,203
Thanked 1,498 Times in 975 Posts
Default Absconded?

Yes, APS, they took the funds that Director Barrett had saved to rehab the old MP HQ. And they built a facility that will work for the next 50 years. Wise decisions in my book, especially after a tour of the new building and the environmental considerations that went into its design. Thank you Lt.

Perhaps sailboats should pay a double registration fee because their inherent right of way occupies more space than a GFBL which is in its space for a VERY limited time, while the sailboat is there, exercising RoW forever?

Time to consider others? Maybe the legislature should revoke sailboat R o W as a fairness issue?
When I hear the Mount blow her horn repeatedly in the broads, it isn't a powerboat in the way.

I applaud that you seem to be the only sailor here, sticking up for other sailors, but you need to understand the position of others, especially those powerboats who are paying the bills.
Descant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2018, 09:07 PM   #38
DBreskin
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Wolfeboro NH
Posts: 283
Thanks: 143
Thanked 121 Times in 76 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Descant View Post
I applaud that you seem to be the only sailor here, sticking up for other sailors, but you need to understand the position of others, especially those powerboats who are paying the bills.

Do powerboats pay a higher rate than sailboats? What about sailboats with auxiliary engines?
DBreskin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2018, 10:09 PM   #39
8gv
Senior Member
 
8gv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,002
Thanks: 61
Thanked 700 Times in 455 Posts
Default

I'll bet that my 7'6" inflatable is the smallest registered boat in NH.

Due to it's mighty 15 pound thrust 1979 antique Minn Kota electric trolling motor, a sticker is required.

Any kayak could beat it in a race.
8gv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2018, 05:30 AM   #40
ApS
Senior Member
 
ApS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Florida (Sebring & Keys), Wolfeboro
Posts: 5,780
Thanks: 2,078
Thanked 735 Times in 530 Posts
Thumbs up Bend, Not Break...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Descant View Post
Yes, APS, they [Legislature] took the funds that Director Barrett had saved to rehab the old MP HQ. And they built a facility that will work for the next 50 years. Wise decisions in my book, especially after a tour of the new building and the environmental considerations that went into its design. Thank you Lt. Perhaps sailboats should pay a double registration fee because their inherent right of way occupies more space than a GFBL which is in its space for a VERY limited time, while the sailboat is there, exercising RoW forever? Time to consider others? Maybe the legislature should revoke sailboat R o W as a fairness issue? When I hear the Mount blow her horn repeatedly in the broads, it isn't a powerboat in the way. I applaud that you seem to be the only sailor here, sticking up for other sailors, but you need to understand the position of others, especially those powerboats who are paying the bills.
• There's a new NHMP building, but where is the NHMP patrolling? (Not here).

• The Mount uses "repeated blasts" as a horn? 'News to me. Not only have I never been "honked" at, I have found that the Mount acknowledges sailboat presence by steering a very considerate and professional course—and have mentioned it here previously. (Thanks again, Cap'n).

• The difference between my powerboat "fee" and unpowered sailboat "fee" is $5. A NH fee adopted 30 years ago to regulate boats that merely bend New Hampshire's wind, and leave no damaging wakes behind.
__________________
Every MP who enters Winter Harbor will pass by my porch of 67 years...
ApS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2018, 07:25 AM   #41
The Real BigGuy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,097
Thanks: 107
Thanked 409 Times in 243 Posts
Default

Fish & Game will always be underfunded. There are limited funds and in general “the people” don’t believe F&G is as essential as other agencies. In addition, there will be no guarantee that additional revenues generated by a sticker won’t go to the general fund.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
The Real BigGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2018, 09:06 AM   #42
Descant
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Merrimack and Welch Island
Posts: 4,003
Thanks: 1,203
Thanked 1,498 Times in 975 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Real BigGuy View Post
Fish & Game will always be underfunded. There are limited funds and in general “the people” don’t believe F&G is as essential as other agencies. In addition, there will be no guarantee that additional revenues generated by a sticker won’t go to the general fund.
One could suggest that all government agencies are "underfunded" as they all say they could do more if they had more money. For the most part the NH fee system keeps the money where it is intended to go. That is, fees go to the intended agency, taxes go to the general fund. I believe, over the years, the number of hunting and fishing licenses has not grown, but F & G expenses continue to grow, and we put more on their plate, Search and Rescue, Trails Bureau, Public Water Access, etc. Some of these programs are "encouraged" by the Feds. "Start this program and we'll give you some money." Keep the program running, but the Fed support goes away after awhile.
It is laudable in my mind that NH is basically run by volunteers, everything from the legislature to Selectmen to F & G Search and Rescue.
Descant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2018, 09:45 AM   #43
WinnisquamZ
Senior Member
 
WinnisquamZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,865
Thanks: 192
Thanked 589 Times in 394 Posts
Default

With the increased retirement population in the lakes region could this issue be resolved if NH votes to open Casinos and earmark profits for fish and game, local schools, etc...


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
WinnisquamZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2018, 09:53 AM   #44
upthesaukee
Senior Member
 
upthesaukee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Alton Bay
Posts: 5,544
Blog Entries: 2
Thanks: 2,393
Thanked 1,918 Times in 1,061 Posts
Default Good idea, but...

Quote:
Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ View Post
With the increased retirement population in the lakes region could this issue be resolved if NH votes to open Casinos and earmark profits for fish and game, local schools, etc...


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
Good idea, but it would take a long time to reap a lot of money from the proceeds from penny slot machines.
__________________
I Live Here... I am always UPTHESAUKEE !!!!
upthesaukee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2018, 09:58 AM   #45
WinnisquamZ
Senior Member
 
WinnisquamZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,865
Thanks: 192
Thanked 589 Times in 394 Posts
Default

Disagree. You must go see the high stakes BINGO Parlor at Foxwoods. Also, sports betting is now legal for all states. Would well be worth the headaches and wait


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
WinnisquamZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2018, 11:33 AM   #46
LIforrelaxin
Senior Member
 
LIforrelaxin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Long Island, not that one, the one on Winnipesaukee
Posts: 2,813
Thanks: 1,011
Thanked 878 Times in 513 Posts
Default

I always enjoy the debate..... Not Really

Bottom line I don't see a huge problem with require sometype of use sticker.... What I have a problem with is every canoe and kayak needing one.... For me that would be three additional charges... so even if it is only 10$, that an additional 30$ every year... Once again not that bad.... As long as I know the money goes to Fish and Game only.....

But if there is anyway that the money can get diverted somewhere else... I can guarantee it will.....

I will continue to state what I have stated for a long time.... NH wake up!!!!!!!!!... the answer is simple.... 1% sales tax and the coffers will be full.... you want to protect things so that it can't be arbitrarily raised when ever Concord runs out of money... Work into bill that a increase has to be voted upon by the public on a election ballot....

Other wise... other are right... when canoes and kayaks don't provide enough because money gets syphoned to the general fund... we will have to pay for inflatable tubes, and it will go on and on....
__________________
Life is about how much time you can spend relaxing... I do it on an island that isn't really an island.....
LIforrelaxin is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to LIforrelaxin For This Useful Post:
Top-Water (09-06-2018)
Old 09-06-2018, 11:43 AM   #47
joey2665
Senior Member
 
joey2665's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Meredith Bay & LI, NY
Posts: 3,220
Thanks: 1,204
Thanked 1,007 Times in 648 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin View Post
I always enjoy the debate..... Not Really

Bottom line I don't see a huge problem with require sometype of use sticker.... What I have a problem with is every canoe and kayak needing one.... For me that would be three additional charges... so even if it is only 10$, that an additional 30$ every year... Once again not that bad.... As long as I know the money goes to Fish and Game only.....

But if there is anyway that the money can get diverted somewhere else... I can guarantee it will.....

I will continue to state what I have stated for a long time.... NH wake up!!!!!!!!!... the answer is simple.... 1% sales tax and the coffers will be full.... you want to protect things so that it can't be arbitrarily raised when ever Concord runs out of money... Work into bill that a increase has to be voted upon by the public on a election ballot....

Other wise... other are right... when canoes and kayaks don't provide enough because money gets syphoned to the general fund... we will have to pay for inflatable tubes, and it will go on and on....
They will never approve a 1% sales tax and then leave future increases up to the voters, also sales tax always goes into the general fund and we now what happens once it goes there, it disappears never to be seen again
joey2665 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to joey2665 For This Useful Post:
Top-Water (09-06-2018)
Old 09-06-2018, 02:15 PM   #48
MAXUM
Senior Member
 
MAXUM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kuna ID
Posts: 2,755
Thanks: 246
Thanked 1,942 Times in 802 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin View Post
I will continue to state what I have stated for a long time.... NH wake up!!!!!!!!!... the answer is simple.... 1% sales tax and the coffers will be full.... you want to protect things so that it can't be arbitrarily raised when ever Concord runs out of money... Work into bill that a increase has to be voted upon by the public on a election ballot....

Other wise... other are right... when canoes and kayaks don't provide enough because money gets syphoned to the general fund... we will have to pay for inflatable tubes, and it will go on and on....
So to play devils advocate here, and for that matter is my opinion as well.... if the fees from a kayak or canoe fee are syphoned into the general fund and thus provide no relief why is it that a 1% sales tax would be any different?!?

I'll answer that for you - it won't.
MAXUM is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to MAXUM For This Useful Post:
Cal Coon (09-08-2018)
Old 09-06-2018, 02:50 PM   #49
tis
Senior Member
 
tis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,386
Thanks: 716
Thanked 1,375 Times in 951 Posts
Default

I don't know what a kayak or canoe has to do with Fish and Game, except some people do fish from them. So wouldn't a fee that was more related to F&G be appropriate?
tis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2018, 03:11 PM   #50
Woodsy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Weirs Beach
Posts: 1,946
Thanks: 80
Thanked 968 Times in 431 Posts
Default

F&G has traditionally relied on hunting & fishing licenses for funding.... but there are fewer of them every year. It has also been tasked with SAR operations as well. Those are SAR ops can have budget busting costs. They police the ATV system too. Not to mention most small rivers & bodies of water get policed by F&G as well.

While I have no faith that the political gurus in Concord will not steal from the sticker $$$ eventually. I do think that something needs to be done to help fund F&G. I am all for a $10 sticker...

Woodsy
__________________
The only way to eliminate ignorant behavior is through education. You can't fix stupid.
Woodsy is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Woodsy For This Useful Post:
Top-Water (09-06-2018)
Old 09-06-2018, 05:34 PM   #51
rick35
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Bear Island/Merrimack
Posts: 707
Thanks: 54
Thanked 170 Times in 104 Posts
Default

I don’t think there’s a way to collect the fee or enforce having a decal especially with all the out of state vacationers. Do we want to collect the fee and then add staff to distribute decals and add staff to check for decals? Michigan thought about a $10 fee but tossed the idea in April. They had no way to manage it. Same here.
rick35 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to rick35 For This Useful Post:
ApS (09-07-2018), WinnisquamZ (09-06-2018)
Old 09-06-2018, 06:20 PM   #52
WinnisquamZ
Senior Member
 
WinnisquamZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,865
Thanks: 192
Thanked 589 Times in 394 Posts
Default

Well said


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
WinnisquamZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2018, 08:32 AM   #53
Shrimpbrain
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 39
Thanks: 5
Thanked 17 Times in 7 Posts
Default

Why doesn't NH increase All TOLLS at the border of NH coming from every state. Just those TOLLS. Make it a 1 time 20 dollar charge to every car coming in this once great state. Yep, you guys did ruin it !!! That way instead of complaining all the time, you could sit back and scream at all the boaters. I find these conversations so hilarious to listen to. If NH is so bad, why even come here to be so upset?
Shrimpbrain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2018, 08:49 AM   #54
joey2665
Senior Member
 
joey2665's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Meredith Bay & LI, NY
Posts: 3,220
Thanks: 1,204
Thanked 1,007 Times in 648 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrimpbrain View Post
Why doesn't NH increase All TOLLS at the border of NH coming from every state. Just those TOLLS. Make it a 1 time 20 dollar charge to every car coming in this once great state. Yep, you guys did ruin it !!! That way instead of complaining all the time, you could sit back and scream at all the boaters. I find these conversations so hilarious to listen to. If NH is so bad, why even come here to be so upset?
First of all, there is NO place in the world like the BIG LAKE and secondly there also is not a place in the world that doesn't have issues (unless you know of a perfect place that has no issues and everyone shares the same opinion of every topic of discussion).
joey2665 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2018, 09:22 AM   #55
fatlazyless
Senior Member
 
fatlazyless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,506
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 291
Thanked 950 Times in 692 Posts
Default

The Fish & Game Dept has a lot to do with kayaking because F & G is the state dept that installs and maintains the many free-to-use boat launch ramps at lakes across the state.

About 3-5 years ago, F & G bought Downing's Landing in Alton Bay probably using funds raised from fishing licenses.

Getting access to the water, launching, and parking your car to unload the kayak off the roof rack is a key part of kayaking, so F & G is attached to kayaking/canoing/rowboats/small sailboats/stand up paddle boards and other non-motorized small boats.

Locally, Lakes Winnisquam, Squam, Newfound, and Winnipesaukee all have state launch ramps, totally free to use, so it seems like a $20 annual kayak fee stamp would be kayak money that is well spent.

Another way to raise needed funding is to install those 'iron deposit boxes' similar to what's used by the White Mountain National Forest at hiking trails, and charge $5/put-in, or $20/ annual sticker, so's the town launch ramp brings in funding when it is not staffed.

The local police could monitor the launch ramps from a distance with binoculars, make a blue lights pounce, and issue a $116.88 violation for kayaking without paying ....... book 'em Barney ....... slap a ticket on their paddle ....... we got us another new customer ..... hee-hee-hee!
__________________
... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake!
fatlazyless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2018, 09:55 AM   #56
rick35
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Bear Island/Merrimack
Posts: 707
Thanks: 54
Thanked 170 Times in 104 Posts
Default

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to pay a paddling fee (kayak, sup, canoe) because, as FLL points out, F&G does support water access. I’d be ok with paying the fee but it would have to apply to everyone and be enforceable without costing as much or more than they take in. I just don’t see that happening. An honor system sounds like a good idea but in practice I’d still be paying while there’s a high probability of the people paddling next to me not paying. And someone still has to empty the honor boxes before the box is vandalized and the money stolen. That’s another non-starter.

We watch North Woods Law regularly and you have to love those F&G guys. What a great combination of law enforcement and conservation. Last weeks episode included a segment on saving a baby owl. Was it worth the time and effort (and cost) to save it? You bet it is! We do need to support them but the kayak fee just isn’t a viable solution.
rick35 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2018, 10:45 AM   #57
Woodsy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Weirs Beach
Posts: 1,946
Thanks: 80
Thanked 968 Times in 431 Posts
Default

It absolutely is a viable solution....

You institute the fee/law and sell the stickers for $10 everywhere... store owners get $2 for selling stickers. Keep stickers same color as boat reg for easy ID.

F&G/MP enforce the law... $25 fine. Not a deal breaker, just enough to be irritating. It will not take long until you see 85%-90% compliance. The cost to enforce the law is negligible...

Woodsy
__________________
The only way to eliminate ignorant behavior is through education. You can't fix stupid.
Woodsy is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Woodsy For This Useful Post:
bostique (09-12-2018), Cal Coon (09-08-2018)
Old 09-07-2018, 10:59 AM   #58
fatlazyless
Senior Member
 
fatlazyless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,506
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 291
Thanked 950 Times in 692 Posts
Default

The five dollar/day hiking pay boxes are not really an honor system. You get a two piece do-it-yourself receipt that you place on top of your dashboard so it's visible through the windshield so a patrol visit can tell which cars have annual stickers and which have one day receipts.

The WMNF system has been in use for about 15 years, and the demographics for hikers are probably similar to the demos for paddlers, so if it works for hikers ...... it encourages lake users to help by paying their small share ..... in their clean lake.
__________________
... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake!
fatlazyless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2018, 11:07 AM   #59
rick35
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Bear Island/Merrimack
Posts: 707
Thanks: 54
Thanked 170 Times in 104 Posts
Default

Woodsy, I like your idea about how to distribute stickers but F&G and MP don’t have the staff to enforce the rules we already have. Go past Cattle Landing on a Saturday or Sunday and that’s a perfect example. If MP had enough staff they could sit there all day bagging 150 foot violators. But they don’t and they could bring in lots of money from the tickets they write.
rick35 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2018, 01:40 PM   #60
8gv
Senior Member
 
8gv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,002
Thanks: 61
Thanked 700 Times in 455 Posts
Default

If there were a well communicated sticker requirement I speculate that there would be a significant level of compliance.

That would bring in plenty of money.

It would not take long for everyone to hear of someone who was ticketed.

Compliance would grow and then level off at some number that brings in more money.

You don't need any more staff to enforce compliance, just a requirement.

The above proposal would incentivize communication of the requirement.
8gv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2018, 02:16 PM   #61
LIforrelaxin
Senior Member
 
LIforrelaxin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Long Island, not that one, the one on Winnipesaukee
Posts: 2,813
Thanks: 1,011
Thanked 878 Times in 513 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MAXUM View Post
So to play devils advocate here, and for that matter is my opinion as well.... if the fees from a kayak or canoe fee are syphoned into the general fund and thus provide no relief why is it that a 1% sales tax would be any different?!?

I'll answer that for you - it won't.
Alright you have me there maybe.... But let me further develop the idea....

So you implement a 1% sales tax suddenly the coffers are full and there is less scrambling for money... Step on Complete.

The follow up with additional legislation to fund agencies like fish and game, etc. out of the general fund.... instead of doing things like trying to force money from illogical places...

everyone thinks that the entire equation needs only have one step... NH has a funding problem end of story... First need is adequate cash flow... Second need is a refactoring of how state agencies are funded....

I could go on and on, but I won't because you can look at other similar minded threads that have post from me and get the full picture... Trust me my outlook is much more then just adding a 1% sales tax, that is on the tip of the ice burg on what needs to happen.

Instead NH will continue to raise property Taxes until it become undesirable to own a second home in NH and then the funding problems will get worse... when people aren't paying their property tax....

As much as people hate to admit to it NH is just a broken as most other states.. Major reform is needed.... Adding a sales tax is just a way to start moving burden to other areas beside sales tax... The a host of other changes are needed as well....
__________________
Life is about how much time you can spend relaxing... I do it on an island that isn't really an island.....
LIforrelaxin is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to LIforrelaxin For This Useful Post:
noreast (09-07-2018)
Old 09-07-2018, 03:19 PM   #62
tis
Senior Member
 
tis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,386
Thanks: 716
Thanked 1,375 Times in 951 Posts
Default

I seem to remember hearing NH had a surplus.
tis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2018, 03:52 PM   #63
8gv
Senior Member
 
8gv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,002
Thanks: 61
Thanked 700 Times in 455 Posts
Default

The issue with the income tax is the rate can and likely rise over time.

I was a resident of CT when Lowell Weiker was elected to governor running on a "no income tax" platform.

Well, he gave us an income tax but lowered the sales tax.

Both have crept up over the years.

A 1% income tax will grow and grow and grow.

Having seen CT and NH goverments in action, I am convinced that the only way to ensure responsible spending is to maintain a budget condition of near starvation.
8gv is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to 8gv For This Useful Post:
ApS (09-08-2018)
Old 09-08-2018, 09:47 AM   #64
fatlazyless
Senior Member
 
fatlazyless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,506
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 291
Thanked 950 Times in 692 Posts
Arrow ...... a PADDLE fee stamp!

Maybe a paddle fee stamp would be easier to monitor/administer than a kayak fee stamp?

If that brightly colored red-blue-green-orange annual $20 fee stamp were stuck to the blade of your paddle, it would make you feel like you is getting your moneys worth with every paddle stroke. The more you paddle, the lower the $20/stroke/annual fee cost per stroke which lowers the price/stroke!

Plus, when the MP putt-putts past you, coming or going, you get in the habit of waving your paddle, so the red-blue-green-orange paddle stamp can be seen by the friendly police ...... so many happy paddlers out there today!

Own two kayaks ........ well ....... the stamp is on the paddle ..... not the kayak ..... so that's a price saving ..... there ...... the stamp goes on the paddle!
__________________
... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake!
fatlazyless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2018, 05:22 PM   #65
ApS
Senior Member
 
ApS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Florida (Sebring & Keys), Wolfeboro
Posts: 5,780
Thanks: 2,078
Thanked 735 Times in 530 Posts
Question "Irritate" Them, Get More Money...

Regarding the effects of taxes:

Quote:
[The President's] economic logic was impeccable when he declared, “If you want more of something, subsidize it; if you want less of something, tax it.
http://blog.independent.org/2008/11/...-subsidize-it/
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodsy View Post
It absolutely is a viable solution...You institute the fee/law and sell the stickers for $10 everywhere...store owners get $2 for selling stickers. Keep stickers same color as boat reg for easy ID. F&G/MP enforce the law...
$25 fine. Not a deal breaker, just enough to be irritating. It will not take long until you see 85%-90% compliance. The cost to enforce the law is negligible...Woodsy
Irritating? Make kayakers go away?

New Hampshire's previous $10 "kayak fee" got the axe:

Quote:
"The unanimity of the New Hampshire Senate reflected the strong message sent by business owners and paddlers in New Hampshire. "Evidently they received a ton of mail against SB 255," said Earl Flanders, of Plymouth, New Hampshire.
"The senator who was the prime sponsor of the bill stood up and said that he was against it".
https://www.snewsnet.com/press-relea...-new-hampshire
The following echoes my thoughts—but are not my words:

Quote:
"My boating thoughts are conflicted in many ways, but predominantly by the battle between larger vs smaller. As I approach 64 years of age, the battle has been won in my head (if not in my heart) and my personal sailing is done in smaller boats. They are used more frequently, and they have a positive effect on more lives."
Thirty years ago, sailboats paid no "fee" in New Hampshire. But for today's "fee-crazy" boating, here's a thought:

Unpowered sailboats have a large range of sail area that affects the power that drives them. Since New Hampshire's excess air remains untaxed, why not charge a variable "fee" on kayaks for their sail area? How about $1 per square foot extra?

Do you want kayaks sneaking around for only $10, when they can put up their 17 square feet of sail in seconds?

Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHQGUbMSPTM

(You can't understand the kayakers in this video, because they're speaking in 'Strine).

.
__________________
Every MP who enters Winter Harbor will pass by my porch of 67 years...
ApS is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to ApS For This Useful Post:
fatlazyless (09-09-2018)
Old 09-09-2018, 08:07 AM   #66
fatlazyless
Senior Member
 
fatlazyless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,506
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 291
Thanked 950 Times in 692 Posts
Default

After watching that 11-minute youtube with the sail rigged ocean kayaks somewhere off Tasmania, did you know the www.topkayaker.com located in Ossipee NH seems like the place to get a mast and sail for your $144 Walmart kayak.

By the way, if the kayak is 12' long and has a sail, then it probably needs to be registered in NH which costs about $45/year. Oh well ....... if you can afford a kayak with a sail, then the $45 is probably no big hurdle. Displaying the registration stickers without displaying the 3" high hull numbers on both sides of the bow is ok for sailboats from 12-16', so that is basically a $45 annual fee stamp.

Am not too sure about kayak sailors longer than 12' needing to be registered ....... could be one of those rules that almost never gets enforced ....... and can probably go 12' kayak sailing like this without the sticker ...... saving $45 ..... ?
__________________
... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake!

Last edited by fatlazyless; 09-09-2018 at 09:00 AM.
fatlazyless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2018, 09:25 AM   #67
MAXUM
Senior Member
 
MAXUM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kuna ID
Posts: 2,755
Thanks: 246
Thanked 1,942 Times in 802 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin View Post

As much as people hate to admit to it NH is just a broken as most other states.. Major reform is needed.... Adding a sales tax is just a way to start moving burden to other areas beside sales tax... The a host of other changes are needed as well....
Yet other states have instituted multiple broad based taxes and by your own admission they too are broken and far more expensive to live in.

The answer is not throwing money at the problem and finding new an innovative ways to do this in a manner that seems to be less painful. The focus needs to be on ensuring that the money that is available is spent wisely and the government as a whole operates efficiently. Unfortunately government as a whole is not forced to do either.

I think as a whole NH does a pretty good job comparatively speaking to other states. Perfect no, but not bad either.

F&G and for that matter all law enforcement should be streamlined under the state police. There is needless duplication of efforts, infrastructure and administration. The F&G operational costs also need to be looked at and quite frankly if the SAR operations are killing the budget then those who engage in activities (especially hikers) that then are the most likely to use this service should be forced to pay for the costs associated with it regardless of whether their actions were reckless or not. I also think that fines for breaking the law are far to low, why not make those that break the law pay dearly for it instead of porking the law abiding citizens?

If a sales tax is the answer the only way I would support that is not a 1% additional tax, but an all out swap of the property tax for a hefty sales tax.
MAXUM is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to MAXUM For This Useful Post:
Cal Coon (09-09-2018)
Old 09-09-2018, 10:07 AM   #68
DBreskin
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Wolfeboro NH
Posts: 283
Thanks: 143
Thanked 121 Times in 76 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MAXUM View Post
...those who engage in activities (especially hikers) that then are the most likely to use this service should be forced to pay for the costs associated with it regardless of whether their actions were reckless or not.

Why do you single out hikers?

If people are charged for a public service regardless of whether their actions were reckless or not, then those who receive firefighting or police service should also be charged for it.
DBreskin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2018, 10:27 AM   #69
Cal Coon
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Lakes Region
Posts: 475
Thanks: 179
Thanked 158 Times in 100 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MAXUM View Post
Yet other states have instituted multiple broad based taxes and by your own admission they too are broken and far more expensive to live in.

The answer is not throwing money at the problem and finding new an innovative ways to do this in a manner that seems to be less painful. The focus needs to be on ensuring that the money that is available is spent wisely and the government as a whole operates efficiently. Unfortunately government as a whole is not forced to do either.

I think as a whole NH does a pretty good job comparatively speaking to other states. Perfect no, but not bad either.

F&G and for that matter all law enforcement should be streamlined under the state police. There is needless duplication of efforts, infrastructure and administration. The F&G operational costs also need to be looked at and quite frankly if the SAR operations are killing the budget then those who engage in activities (especially hikers) that then are the most likely to use this service should be forced to pay for the costs associated with it regardless of whether their actions were reckless or not. I also think that fines for breaking the law are far to low, why not make those that break the law pay dearly for it instead of porking the law abiding citizens?

If a sales tax is the answer the only way I would support that is not a 1% additional tax, but an all out swap of the property tax for a hefty sales tax.
Funny (NOT) how everybody talks about RAISING taxes for this and that, but NEVER TALK ABOUT WASTE, FRAUD, AND CORRUPTION, and just doing a better job of managing, and spending money (more) wisely... How about we start with looking to SAVE money here and there (FIRST), before we look to raise taxes (AGAIN)...??? How long do you have to continue to throw more and more money at a problem that NEVER gets resolved... I think that is the definition of insanity, is it not??? Why is man so stupid that he can't learn from the past...??? When I drive around and see some of these police stations, fire stations, and other Govt buildings (both local and state) that have nicer kitchens, gyms, bathrooms, and other amenities that a lot of the taxpayer's don't even have, it kind of pisses me off... Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with "rich" people, (private citizens), having it all, it's their money, God Bless them, but when I see Govt buildings that have the best of everything at the taxpayer's expense, something is wrong... Do public building's really need granite counter tops?? I know they don't ALL have them, but you get my point. Go ahead and beat me up now. Can't help how I feel...
Cal Coon is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Cal Coon For This Useful Post:
gillygirl (09-09-2018)
Old 09-09-2018, 07:11 PM   #70
MAXUM
Senior Member
 
MAXUM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kuna ID
Posts: 2,755
Thanks: 246
Thanked 1,942 Times in 802 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DBreskin View Post
Why do you single out hikers?

If people are charged for a public service regardless of whether their actions were reckless or not, then those who receive firefighting or police service should also be charged for it.
Because a large part of and ever increasing portion of F&G's operations budge is SAR. Why shouldn't those that utilize it pay for it?

The difference with fire and police is they are paid for directly via tax dollars from the respective city or town residents they serve.
MAXUM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2018, 07:21 PM   #71
DBreskin
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Wolfeboro NH
Posts: 283
Thanks: 143
Thanked 121 Times in 76 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MAXUM View Post
The difference with fire and police is they are paid for directly via tax dollars from the respective city or town residents they serve.


If a person traveling away from their home town (tourist, business travel, etc) has an accident and receives service from fire or police should they be charged as you suggest for hikers?
DBreskin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2018, 09:54 AM   #72
fatlazyless
Senior Member
 
fatlazyless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,506
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 291
Thanked 950 Times in 692 Posts
Default

Here's a local bargain price kayak for sale ...... a brand new Sun Dolphin Bali 13.5 .... color medium blue ...... size 13.5' x 34" .... weighs 70-lbs.... supports 500-lbs ... "perfect family kayak" ..... seats two .....sit on top .... the Plymouth Walmart has three Sun Dolphin Bali 13.5 kayaks w/ paddles for end of season price $250 ....... reg price $495 .... just came in two weeks ago

This is a lot of kayak for $250 ...... go paddle the big beautiful Lake Winnipesaukee in sales tax free New Hampshire ....... September is the quiet month and the water is still warm enough ...... seats two adults ...... plus two kids and a basset hound ...... woof-woof-woof ....arrroooooo!
__________________
... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake!

Last edited by fatlazyless; 09-11-2018 at 08:35 AM.
fatlazyless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2018, 10:25 AM   #73
LIforrelaxin
Senior Member
 
LIforrelaxin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Long Island, not that one, the one on Winnipesaukee
Posts: 2,813
Thanks: 1,011
Thanked 878 Times in 513 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MAXUM View Post

The answer is not throwing money at the problem and finding new an innovative ways to do this in a manner that seems to be less painful. The focus needs to be on ensuring that the money that is available is spent wisely and the government as a whole operates efficiently. Unfortunately government as a whole is not forced to do either.

I think as a whole NH does a pretty good job comparatively speaking to other states. Perfect no, but not bad either.
I don't disagree that government budgets need to be scrutinized... That goes for every state, and also the feds...

I do disagree that NH is doing better the other states... NH faces that same delemia's as other states... and in some cases more so.....

At the end of the day, a number of things need to happen... the problem is the same elected officials keep getting elected back... And when that happens nothing is ever going to change....
__________________
Life is about how much time you can spend relaxing... I do it on an island that isn't really an island.....
LIforrelaxin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2018, 12:32 PM   #74
MAXUM
Senior Member
 
MAXUM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kuna ID
Posts: 2,755
Thanks: 246
Thanked 1,942 Times in 802 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin View Post
I don't disagree that government budgets need to be scrutinized... That goes for every state, and also the feds...

I do disagree that NH is doing better the other states... NH faces that same delemia's as other states... and in some cases more so.....

At the end of the day, a number of things need to happen... the problem is the same elected officials keep getting elected back... And when that happens nothing is ever going to change....
Well we agree on one thing, there are a number of elected representatives at the local, state and federal level who regularly demonstrate a staggering level of incompetence, or maybe they are so intoxicated on their own political agenda that rational thought and fact take the back burner to their ideology.

Far as taxes go I like that there is one source of revenue as it makes people pay attention to what they are voting for since it will be directly reflected in the big checks that are already being written. All states face the same dilemma, government is fundamentally inefficient and the tax payers are forced to pay for it. Where the money comes from is irrelevant. However so long as that funding source remains isolated to a single place, in NH's case property taxes, people tend to pay far more attention to it than if it's spread across in tiny increments via broad based taxes. Unfortunately whenever anyone tries to clean this up and run government more like a business they get thrown out of office and are crucified by their fellow politicians. Just look at what happened to Craig Benson, he tried and didn't last long. It's to bad he had some really good ideas but the "system" rejected him. Everyone talks a good game on the campaign trail but once in office many do nothing to fix things. In fact if they actually fixed things they would have nothing to complain about next time they run.
MAXUM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2018, 12:45 PM   #75
tis
Senior Member
 
tis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,386
Thanks: 716
Thanked 1,375 Times in 951 Posts
Default

They never fix ANYTHING, Maxum! The politicians have been running on the same things for as long as I can remember and never fix them.
tis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2018, 01:09 PM   #76
MAXUM
Senior Member
 
MAXUM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kuna ID
Posts: 2,755
Thanks: 246
Thanked 1,942 Times in 802 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DBreskin View Post
If a person traveling away from their home town (tourist, business travel, etc) has an accident and receives service from fire or police should they be charged as you suggest for hikers?
If it's bankrupting the town or city why the hell not?

The Fish and Game's purpose is to manage and protect the wildlife of the state, nowhere in that job description is rescue stranded hikers. If they choose to lend a hand it should be on a best effort based on budgetary constraints. There absolutely should be charge back for each and every rescue unless it involves a person who is otherwise a licensed hunter or fisherman and has paid "their fair share" already.
MAXUM is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to MAXUM For This Useful Post:
WinnisquamZ (09-10-2018)
Old 09-10-2018, 01:16 PM   #77
joey2665
Senior Member
 
joey2665's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Meredith Bay & LI, NY
Posts: 3,220
Thanks: 1,204
Thanked 1,007 Times in 648 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MAXUM View Post
If it's bankrupting the town or city why the hell not?

The Fish and Game's purpose is to manage and protect the wildlife of the state, nowhere in that job description is rescue stranded hikers. If they choose to lend a hand it should be on a best effort based on budgetary constraints. There absolutely should be charge back for each and every rescue unless it involves a person who is otherwise a licensed hunter or fisherman and has paid "their fair share" already.
This statement will certainly open pandora's box. Where does it end? If I have an accident just traveling through the state on pleasure or business and I have an accident and receive emergency services, should I pay for those services?
joey2665 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2018, 03:30 PM   #78
Descant
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Merrimack and Welch Island
Posts: 4,003
Thanks: 1,203
Thanked 1,498 Times in 975 Posts
Default You do pay

Quote:
Originally Posted by joey2665 View Post
This statement will certainly open pandora's box. Where does it end? If I have an accident just traveling through the state on pleasure or business and I have an accident and receive emergency services, should I pay for those services?
Pretty much you do pay. You just don't see the bill. Once you're in the ambulance, or otherwise getting EMT services, your insurance company is picking up the tab.
Descant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2018, 03:33 PM   #79
joey2665
Senior Member
 
joey2665's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Meredith Bay & LI, NY
Posts: 3,220
Thanks: 1,204
Thanked 1,007 Times in 648 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Descant View Post
Pretty much you do pay. You just don't see the bill. Once you're in the ambulance, or otherwise getting EMT services, your insurance company is picking up the tab.
Yes that is for EMT services but not police or fire department responses.
joey2665 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2018, 04:01 PM   #80
Descant
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Merrimack and Welch Island
Posts: 4,003
Thanks: 1,203
Thanked 1,498 Times in 975 Posts
Default No to term limits

I think in NH, term limits pretty much are taken care of by the voters and the fact that our politicians are essentially unpaid ($100/year for House and Senate). With two year terms, approximately 1/3 of the legislature turns over every election; governors rarely do more than 6 years (Lynch did 8, Hassan 4, right?). Most states have a four year governor's term, and they rarely serve more than two terms.
So we're unique here and I think our volunteer government works well. We're always getting fresh faces, but we also have some dedicated folks who supply corporate memory.
BTW, the state does not run on property taxes. The towns do and you can go to town meeting to pass or amend the budget every year.
The state budget relies on Business profits tax, Business enterprise tax, tobacco tax, Interest and dividends tax, liquor revenues and the like with a significant influx of federal money.

I like the idea of a"Boat Safe" card that I can carry and use on either my canoe or my kayak, but there maybe should be a sticker too, like the one I get from BoatUS, just so others know and will participate too. This works for the "Parks plate" for my car that gets me park privileges in NH. (NH parks are self-funded, no general fund money for operations).
Descant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2018, 06:31 PM   #81
Cal Coon
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Lakes Region
Posts: 475
Thanks: 179
Thanked 158 Times in 100 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tis View Post
They never fix ANYTHING, Maxum! The politicians have been running on the same things for as long as I can remember and never fix them.
That's EXACTLY why we have Trump, and look what they're trying to do to him... He has kept ALL his promises, and the ones he hasn't been able to do yet, isn't his fault because of the obstructionists, but if I had to guess, Trump is going to WIN in the end, (unless they kill him first), because he has the ultimate "Trump" card (no pun intended) in his back pocket that he's going to play any day I hear... I can't wait!!! The Sh#t is about to hit the fan. Let it fly...!!! It's time for the rule of law to pertain to the ACTUAL law breakers!! Been a looooong time coming... Libtards are out of control.
Cal Coon is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Cal Coon For This Useful Post:
Hillcountry (09-10-2018)
Old 09-10-2018, 08:19 PM   #82
thinkxingu
Senior Member
 
thinkxingu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 5,939
Thanks: 1,152
Thanked 1,959 Times in 1,210 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal Coon View Post
That's EXACTLY why we have Trump, and look what they're trying to do to him... He has kept ALL his promises, and the ones he hasn't been able to do yet, isn't his fault because of the obstructionists, but if I had to guess, Trump is going to WIN in the end, (unless they kill him first), because he has the ultimate "Trump" card (no pun intended) in his back pocket that he's going to play any day I hear... I can't wait!!! The Sh#t is about to hit the fan. Let it fly...!!! It's time for the rule of law to pertain to the ACTUAL law breakers!! Been a looooong time coming... Libtards are out of control.
There's the Cal we all know and love/hate. Atta boy!

Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using Tapatalk
thinkxingu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2018, 09:16 PM   #83
DBreskin
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Wolfeboro NH
Posts: 283
Thanks: 143
Thanked 121 Times in 76 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal Coon View Post
He has kept ALL his promises, and the ones he hasn't been able to do yet, isn't his fault because of the obstructionists...

I think I could say that about every President in history.
DBreskin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2018, 04:42 AM   #84
Cal Coon
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Lakes Region
Posts: 475
Thanks: 179
Thanked 158 Times in 100 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thinkxingu View Post
There's the Cal we all know and love/hate. Atta boy!

Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using Tapatalk
I didn't start this one, (so you can't accuse me of coming on the forum with an agenda!!), but I'll be happy to join in!!!!!!!!!! I love a good (political) debate. Bring it on...
Cal Coon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2018, 04:53 AM   #85
Major
Senior Member
 
Major's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Laconia
Posts: 1,043
Thanks: 429
Thanked 995 Times in 412 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DBreskin View Post
I think I could say that about every President in history.


If you like your doctor you can keep your doctor; if you like your insurance you can keep your insurance. The biggest whopper in presidential history, which resulted in the worst legislation ever. Thank God it’s being dismantled.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Major is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Major For This Useful Post:
Cal Coon (09-11-2018)
Old 09-11-2018, 04:55 AM   #86
Cal Coon
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Lakes Region
Posts: 475
Thanks: 179
Thanked 158 Times in 100 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DBreskin View Post
I think I could say that about every President in history.
No you can't. I could give you a long list, but for the sake of "getting off topic", I will give you one glaring example of promises made by other Presidents that were NEVER kept, that Trump has kept. It is the moving of the US Embassy to Jerusalem. Many Presidents (on both sides) had promised this move in the past, but never delivered, Trump did it in less than 2yrs!! The man makes things happen. That's the difference between a businessman and a politician.
Cal Coon is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Cal Coon For This Useful Post:
Hillcountry (09-11-2018), Major (09-11-2018), MRD (09-12-2018)
Old 09-11-2018, 09:10 AM   #87
rick35
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Bear Island/Merrimack
Posts: 707
Thanks: 54
Thanked 170 Times in 104 Posts
Default

And this is something relevant to kayak fees? Please start a new thread if you want to discuss politics. Don’t derail this one.
rick35 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to rick35 For This Useful Post:
Biggd (09-11-2018), Diana (09-19-2018), Outdoorsman (09-12-2018)
Old 09-11-2018, 09:18 AM   #88
fatlazyless
Senior Member
 
fatlazyless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,506
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 291
Thanked 950 Times in 692 Posts
Default

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...-lakes-project

Did you know that Lake Winnipesaukee and the Sea of Galilee in northern Israel are same size fresh water lakes, and in 1993 became sister lakes, or something?

Bet you Israel does not have a Walmart with that $249, reg price $495, (no sales tax-NH) Sun Dolphin Bali, 13.5' x 34", blue, weighs 70-lb, 500-lb capacity, family kayak ....... like what they got at the Plymouth Walmart!
__________________
... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake!
fatlazyless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2018, 09:30 AM   #89
Major
Senior Member
 
Major's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Laconia
Posts: 1,043
Thanks: 429
Thanked 995 Times in 412 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rick35 View Post
And this is something relevant to kayak fees? Please start a new thread if you want to discuss politics. Don’t derail this one.
I'll let others defend themselves, but my response has EVERYTHING to do with Kayak fees. Our government (state and federal) is becoming all encompassing, developing an ever-increasing appetite for more and more money. It is this insatiable desire that leads us to ludicrous ideas like putting a tax on kayaks!
Major is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Major For This Useful Post:
Cal Coon (09-11-2018)
Old 09-11-2018, 11:24 AM   #90
MAXUM
Senior Member
 
MAXUM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kuna ID
Posts: 2,755
Thanks: 246
Thanked 1,942 Times in 802 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Major View Post
I'll let others defend themselves, but my response has EVERYTHING to do with Kayak fees. Our government (state and federal) is becoming all encompassing, developing an ever-increasing appetite for more and more money. It is this insatiable desire that leads us to ludicrous ideas like putting a tax on kayaks!
LOL it's all good till you run out of people to take money from.

Last edited by MAXUM; 09-11-2018 at 03:07 PM.
MAXUM is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to MAXUM For This Useful Post:
Cal Coon (09-11-2018)
Old 09-11-2018, 11:34 AM   #91
tis
Senior Member
 
tis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,386
Thanks: 716
Thanked 1,375 Times in 951 Posts
Default

I heard somebody say who says we don't have slaves any more? We are slaves to the government for half a year before we get to keep our own money. And that is only if you don't count all these other taxes other than income taxes. If you count them we work longer in the year for the gov.
tis is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to tis For This Useful Post:
Cal Coon (09-11-2018)
Old 09-11-2018, 11:45 AM   #92
DEJ
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 539
Thanks: 514
Thanked 309 Times in 152 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tis View Post
I heard somebody say who says we don't have slaves any more? We are slaves to the government for half a year before we get to keep our own money. And that is only if you don't count all these other taxes other than income taxes. If you count them we work longer in the year for the gov.
As a business owner won't your tax burden be much lower when you file your 2018 tax return due to something Trump did earlier this year?
DEJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2018, 12:01 PM   #93
tis
Senior Member
 
tis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,386
Thanks: 716
Thanked 1,375 Times in 951 Posts
Default

Not much lower, but a little is better than nothing.
tis is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to tis For This Useful Post:
Cal Coon (09-11-2018)
Old 09-11-2018, 05:10 PM   #94
JEEPONLY
Deceased Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 702
Thanks: 360
Thanked 179 Times in 141 Posts
Default

I recently heard a sixteen year old say that he goes duck hunting, on Winni, in a kayak, with a shot gun! Do people really do this?
JEEPONLY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2018, 05:18 PM   #95
tis
Senior Member
 
tis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,386
Thanks: 716
Thanked 1,375 Times in 951 Posts
Default

If he does he's probably illegal. I think you have to be 200' from houses to shoot. I can't think of many places on Winni where houses would be that far away.
tis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2018, 05:36 PM   #96
Hillcountry
Senior Member
 
Hillcountry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: In the hills
Posts: 2,342
Thanks: 1,580
Thanked 761 Times in 456 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tis View Post
If he does he's probably illegal. I think you have to be 200' from houses to shoot. I can't think of many places on Winni where houses would be that far away.
There are many places on Winni, Tis.
200' is not much but I believe the law is 300'
For instance, on uninhabited islands there are coves and other places to tuck in and shoot...I don't think you'll find hunters in the Weirs Channel though!

Duck seasons run from Oct. 2 - Dec. 16 when most boaters are off the lake.
Hillcountry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2018, 05:55 PM   #97
8gv
Senior Member
 
8gv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,002
Thanks: 61
Thanked 700 Times in 455 Posts
Default

I was wondering if the red kayaks will win out over the blue kayaks in the race that will be held in early November and how would a kayak fee affect the outcome of the race.
8gv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2018, 06:03 PM   #98
tis
Senior Member
 
tis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,386
Thanks: 716
Thanked 1,375 Times in 951 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hillcountry View Post
There are many places on Winni, Tis.
200' is not much but I believe the law is 300'
For instance, on uninhabited islands there are coves and other places to tuck in and shoot...I don't think you'll find hunters in the Weirs Channel though!

Duck seasons run from Oct. 2 - Dec. 16 when most boaters are off the lake.
You are probably right. I couldn't remember if it was 2 or 300. I remember F&G being around many years ago and the officer told me that. I guess there could be on some of the smaller islands? Just seems like there isn't much that is uninhabited on the lake. Now you got me thinking----
tis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2018, 05:32 AM   #99
ApS
Senior Member
 
ApS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Florida (Sebring & Keys), Wolfeboro
Posts: 5,780
Thanks: 2,078
Thanked 735 Times in 530 Posts
Question Taxing The Wind...

Quote:
Originally Posted by fatlazyless View Post
After watching that 11-minute youtube with the sail rigged ocean kayaks somewhere off Tasmania, did you know the www.topkayaker.com located in Ossipee NH seems like the place to get a mast and sail for your $144 Walmart kayak. By the way, if the kayak is 12' long and has a sail, then it probably needs to be registered in NH which costs about $45/year. Oh well … if you can afford a kayak with a sail, then the $45 is probably no big hurdle. Displaying the registration stickers without displaying the 3" high hull numbers on both sides of the bow is ok for sailboats from 12-16', so that is basically a $45 annual fee stamp.
Am not too sure about kayak sailors longer than 12' needing to be registered ... could be one of those rules that almost never gets enforced ... and can probably go 12' kayak sailing like this without the sticker ... saving $45 ... ?
New Hampshire's RSA270 E:4 had exempted sailing canoes; however, this pending bill will remove that exemption, and start canoe and kayak fees and other registrations.

Will this "Wind-Tax" bill (D-sponsored) get passed during winter, like the "even-louder boats" bill did?
__________________
Every MP who enters Winter Harbor will pass by my porch of 67 years...
ApS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2018, 07:30 AM   #100
fatlazyless
Senior Member
 
fatlazyless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,506
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 291
Thanked 950 Times in 692 Posts
Default

Well, thanks for this info about SB410, a bill to create a ten dollar fee stamp for canoes, kayaks, rowboats, sailboats under 20', and sailboards. Was not aware.

No mention of stand up paddle boards which can be 11'6" x 32" ..... why are sups not in this bill?

So, for sailboats 12-20' without a motor, it sounds like the annual fee will be decreased from about $45 down to $10 because they already are supposed to pay the $45.

With three old, el cheapo, fixer upper, craigslist sailboats, sizes 12', 14', 16' ...... seems it will save me about $35 x 3 = $105 ...... thankyou very much Sen Lou D'Allesandro, Manchester and Goffstown ..... you is my type of a Democratic senator!

Also, many kayaks are made with polypropilene which can be difficult to get a sticker to adhere, so these kayak stickers need to have some good sticky adhesive or something.

Cannot decipher if this is an annual ten dollar fee, or a one time ten dollar fee and if the ten dollar sticker regulation applies to a 16' sailboat with a 3-hp outboard motor?
__________________
... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake!

Last edited by fatlazyless; 09-12-2018 at 12:12 PM.
fatlazyless is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:08 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.

This page was generated in 0.51543 seconds