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Old 07-06-2019, 09:04 PM   #1
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Default What happened to the Dive today?

What happened to the Dive today? We were on the island and at about 4:30, it looked like the Dive was out of control and it crashes into Smith Point. There was a small squall just before, but not enough to cause a vessel that size to go ashore. We saw police and marine patrol. Any info?
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Old 07-06-2019, 09:51 PM   #2
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What happened to the Dive today? We were on the island and at about 4:30, it looked like the Dive was out of control and it crashes into Smith Point. There was a small squall just before, but not enough to cause a vessel that size to go ashore. We saw police and marine patrol. Any info?
I can't answer your question other than to say that I hope the "Dive" has enough flotation devices and life boats in the event of a serious emergency.
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Old 07-06-2019, 09:54 PM   #3
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I can't answer your question other than to say that I hope the "Dive" has enough flotation devices and life boats in the event of a serious emergency.
Pretty sure it would not have passed inspection, which it has done, if it didn’t have enough PFDs for all its passengers.


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Old 07-07-2019, 06:22 AM   #4
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Anyone have any info on this “incident “. I can’t find anything on their Facebook page.


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Old 07-07-2019, 10:58 AM   #5
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Talking ....the barge that paddles together ...... is the barge

.....is the barge that doesn't run a-ground on Smith Point

If The Dive big barge had a problem with its twin outboards or lost steering or just got blown ashore or something it could have used some auxiliary paddle power to stay safe.

Six of those long handled stand up paddle board paddles could paddle it on course and be something for the customers to do on calm waters, just for the fun of paddling ..... yo heave ho ...... paddle, paddle, paddle ..... that they 're is Smith Point up ahead ..... so everybody ...... paddle, paddle, paddle! ...
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Old 07-07-2019, 11:18 AM   #6
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Anyone have any info on this “incident “. I can’t find anything on their Facebook page.


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They were taking cover from the storm and ducked into a cove, some “unhappy” person who apparently thinks they own the water in front of their place called the police to complain they had dropped anchor for a short period to wait out the weather....
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Old 07-07-2019, 11:29 AM   #7
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Thank you a for the meaningful post and possible explanation what took place.

Unlike the stupidity posted previously to yours, that is a joke of some sort that has really ran it's course.

Last edited by Top-Water; 07-07-2019 at 11:37 AM. Reason: missing word "the"
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Old 07-07-2019, 12:21 PM   #8
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They were taking cover from the storm and ducked into a cove, some “unhappy” person who apparently thinks they own the water in front of their place called the police to complain they had dropped anchor for a short period to wait out the weather....
Thank you for the update I appreciate the information.


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Old 07-07-2019, 12:58 PM   #9
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Well, I can’t speak about the neighbor who called Marine Patrol, but I would certainly have called them too if a vessel that big was headed toward my property. And not because of the property, but because there were many crew on board running all over the deck. It was going way faster than headway speed and crashed into rocks on Smith Point we saw and heard it. If it was truly seeking safe haven it could have gone into Glidden Cove or near one of the many docks. I watched it and knew it was in trouble.

It was disabled for a while even after it was pulled out away from the shore by boats. The Dive obviously had some kind of issue and was not just taking safe harbor. Believe what you want, but I saw it. The main thing is that it appears that nobody was hurt. Makes me realize how challenging it is to captain the Dive.
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Old 07-07-2019, 01:09 PM   #10
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Default A Handful...

A 2-story barge would be a handful.

A few years ago, a regular barge lost an excavator overboard into 85 feet of water.

(Recovered later).
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Old 07-07-2019, 03:32 PM   #11
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Well, I can’t speak about the neighbor who called Marine Patrol, but I would certainly have called them too if a vessel that big was headed toward my property. And not because of the property, but because there were many crew on board running all over the deck. It was going way faster than headway speed and crashed into rocks on Smith Point we saw and heard it. If it was truly seeking safe haven it could have gone into Glidden Cove or near one of the many docks. I watched it and knew it was in trouble.

It was disabled for a while even after it was pulled out away from the shore by boats. The Dive obviously had some kind of issue and was not just taking safe harbor. Believe what you want, but I saw it. The main thing is that it appears that nobody was hurt. Makes me realize how challenging it is to captain the Dive.
Very helpful. Perhaps not quite engineered for heavy weather, and/or lacking appropriate backup systems. The margin of error disappears when a boat is that big and boxy. Glad no one was hurt
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Old 07-07-2019, 04:34 PM   #12
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Default Barges

None of the winni Barges do good in wind. Anybody who has ever had work done on the lake by a barge realizes the limitations these large crafts have in the wind. With the dive being two stories high, it must be challenging to say the least. A learning curve for sure!

Glad no one was hurt!

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Old 07-07-2019, 06:06 PM   #13
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To the person who posted that the Dive had dropped anchor to take safe harbor... please get your facts correct before you post. Were your there? I was.

I have no feeling for the Dive either way. However, I watched the entire event from a few doors down. The truth is there was no anchor dropped. The barge rammed into the rocks after coming straight in to Smith Point at a surprisingly fast rate of speed. It was obvious to anyone who was there to witness it, that the captain did not have command of the Dive. Regardless of the reason - it ran aground and just missed a boathouse. If the captain had control and was truly seeking safe harbor, Glidden Cove was wide open. This would have been a better option for safety rather than crashing into rocks in someones waterfront. After it was pulled out by another boat, it sat between Sleepers and Smith Point for a while. I saw two jets skis circling around like they were trying to help.

Today’s Posts make a good point about how hard it is to navigate a barge on the lake and I believe it. After watching this calamity last night, it convinced me that the only time I would ever go on the Dive is when it is securely tied up to a dock.

Based on how the barge hit the rocks, there had to be damage and that may be why they were closed today. Or perhaps they all just wanted to enjoy a beautiful day on the lake.
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Old 07-07-2019, 06:51 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Lovehtelake View Post
To the person who posted that the Dive had dropped anchor to take safe harbor... please get your facts correct before you post. Were your there? I was.

I have no feeling for the Dive either way. However, I watched the entire event from a few doors down. The truth is there was no anchor dropped. The barge rammed into the rocks after coming straight in to Smith Point at a surprisingly fast rate of speed. It was obvious to anyone who was there to witness it, that the captain did not have command of the Dive. Regardless of the reason - it ran aground and just missed a boathouse. If the captain had control and was truly seeking safe harbor, Glidden Cove was wide open. This would have been a better option for safety rather than crashing into rocks in someones waterfront. After it was pulled out by another boat, it sat between Sleepers and Smith Point for a while. I saw two jets skis circling around like they were trying to help.

Today’s Posts make a good point about how hard it is to navigate a barge on the lake and I believe it. After watching this calamity last night, it convinced me that the only time I would ever go on the Dive is when it is securely tied up to a dock.

Based on how the barge hit the rocks, there had to be damage and that may be why they were closed today. Or perhaps they all just wanted to enjoy a beautiful day on the lake.
Welcome to the forum,

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The barge rammed into the rocks after coming straight in to Smith Point at a surprisingly fast rate of speed.
What would you estimate that speed to be 10, 20, 30, or 40mph.
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Old 07-07-2019, 09:22 PM   #15
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Default Please don’t post if you don’t know facts

JADAQ - I’m sorry but your post is not accurate. lakehtelover has a more accurate depiction of what occurred. I was on scene and although I will not elaborate on the other issues the Dive had while trying to remove themselves from from running aground, I just wanted to set record straight and avoid mistruths. It was very scary for all involved.
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Old 07-07-2019, 10:02 PM   #16
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JADAQ - I’m sorry but your post is not accurate. lakehtelover has a more accurate depiction of what occurred. I was on scene and although I will not elaborate on the other issues the Dive had while trying to remove themselves from from running aground, I just wanted to set record straight and avoid mistruths. It was very scary for all involved.
Thank you for posting and leaving out an editorial bashing.
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Old 07-07-2019, 10:37 PM   #17
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Default Umm...not just ugly & out of place

So now we know the dive is a hazard in itself in addition to being ugly, out of place, and a misuse of the state park of Winni.
Sounds like a combination of defective design and incompetent seamanship.
Hopefully they will tie this monstrosity up somewhere and leave it there.
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Old 07-07-2019, 10:52 PM   #18
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So now we know the dive is a hazard in itself in addition to being ugly, out of place, and a misuse of the state park of Winni.
Sounds like a combination of defective design and incompetent seamanship.
Hopefully they will tie this monstrosity up somewhere and leave it there.

Perhaps you should notify Wikipedia, Lake Winnipesaukee is not listed as a New Hampshire State Park.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...re_state_parks

From this great thread from Rattlesnake Gal
https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums...ead.php?t=1194

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Old 07-07-2019, 11:20 PM   #19
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Perhaps you should notify Wikipedia, Lake Winnipesaukee is not listed as a New Hampshire State Park.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...re_state_parks

From this great thread from Rattlesnake Gal
https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums...ead.php?t=1194

It's not officially LISTED as a state park. But it functions as a state owned 'park'. It's owned by the state for the outdoor enjoyment of the public.
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Old 07-07-2019, 11:39 PM   #20
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It's not officially LISTED as a state park. But it functions as a state owned 'park'. It's owned by the state for the outdoor enjoyment of the public.
Anything you say as long as they clear the enjoyment of the public with you first.
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Old 07-08-2019, 02:12 PM   #21
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Anything you say as long as they clear the enjoyment of the public with you first.
Hey good job! You're catching on.
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Old 07-08-2019, 02:54 AM   #22
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Question When Reverse Isn't the Answer...

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So now we know the dive is a hazard in itself in addition to being ugly, out of place, and a misuse of the state park of Winni. Sounds like a combination of defective design and incompetent seamanship Hopefully they will tie this monstrosity up somewhere and leave it there.
I wonder if the Dive was overpowered by wind gusts, and a sustained application of REVERSE was the failed answer.
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Old 07-08-2019, 04:08 AM   #23
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I wonder if the Dive was overpowered by wind gusts, and a sustained application of REVERSE was the failed answer.
Interesting question. The wind force on a 2-story box like that must be massive--I'm amazed how much navigating my 20' pontoon changes in the wind with just the bimini up.

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Old 07-08-2019, 07:26 AM   #24
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So where's the pictures?
Sounds like this was observed by lots of people, but no pics.
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Old 07-08-2019, 07:41 AM   #25
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Default Why the negativity?

On its BEST day the Dive can't go faster than 5MPH..... They usually cruise at 4 MPH as they get way better fuel economy. So the claims of faster than "headway speed" are ludicrous!

Perhaps it was a mechanical failure of some sort? (Their engine woes were well documented here last year). The Mount and its sisters have also had mechanical issues...

Perhaps it was a storm/wind issue...

Either way, it will eventually all come out. Be happy nobody was hurt, nothing but the Dive was damaged (if there even was any damage those barges are pretty rugged).

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Old 07-08-2019, 07:55 AM   #26
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I wonder if the Dive was overpowered by wind gusts, and a sustained application of REVERSE was the failed answer.
I heard that they were tied up last week due to a reverse problem. Maybe it happened again?
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Old 07-08-2019, 08:05 AM   #27
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The were down at Lakeshore Park for a private party there....

I don't know of any "reverse" problems, but maybe? I do know the owners usually make a "Game Day" call on leaving the dock for a sandbar.

I can say they were at Braun Bay for the 4th and did a BANGING business! There was a line to get on the boat ALL DAY!


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Old 07-08-2019, 08:43 AM   #28
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I do know the owners usually make a "Game Day" call on leaving the dock for a sandbar.


Woodsy
This is just another aspect of the same flaw--no margin for error. It's a long day! When a typical boat makes a Game Day call he can travel at 30mph if the weather starts to turn, navigate easily into small coves, anchor in less than a minute, withstand wind and waves with a normal hull, not get blown by 2 stories of building, not worry about being top heavy, not worry about a large number of passengers...
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Old 07-09-2019, 03:41 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Woodsy View Post
The were down at Lakeshore Park for a private party there....

I don't know of any "reverse" problems, but maybe? I do know the owners usually make a "Game Day" call on leaving the dock for a sandbar.

I can say they were at Braun Bay for the 4th and did a BANGING business! There was a line to get on the boat ALL DAY!


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They did the same at Lake Shore Park, Lines all day & nite, Thats why it was still there in morn, everyone had a great time
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Old 07-08-2019, 07:34 AM   #30
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So now we know the dive is a hazard in itself
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".

So far, we sort of know there was some kind of issue. From the details available, it does not seem reasonable to conclude that this is a systemic issue with the vessel, or a 1-time issue.

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in addition to being ugly,
Subjective, and if all "ugly" boats, people, and properties were removed from the lake, it would be a pretty barren spot.

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Originally Posted by kawishiwi View Post
out of place, and a misuse of the state park of Winni.
Link to data/regulations/etc. that define "misuse", or "proper use"?

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Sounds like a combination of defective design and incompetent seamanship.
Hopefully they will tie this monstrosity up somewhere and leave it there.
Sounds like you need a hobby.
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Old 07-08-2019, 02:28 PM   #31
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Default Sounds like...

Quote:
Originally Posted by brk-lnt View Post
The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".

So far, we sort of know there was some kind of issue. From the details available, it does not seem reasonable to conclude that this is a systemic issue with the vessel, or a 1-time issue.

Subjective, and if all "ugly" boats, people, and properties were removed from the lake, it would be a pretty barren spot.

Link to data/regulations/etc. that define "misuse", or "proper use"?

Sounds like you need a hobby.
Sounds like you might be the one in need a of a hobby beyond making multi part blow hard responses to posts at 8:30 in the morning.
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Old 07-08-2019, 04:03 PM   #32
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Sounds like you might be the one in need a of a hobby beyond making multi part blow hard responses to posts at 8:30 in the morning.
I have quite a few hobbies. One of them is calling out people who make indefensible forum posts.

Nice to see you offer exactly zero valid responses to any of my comments/questions and instead resort to a schoolyard-level response.
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Old 07-08-2019, 04:37 PM   #33
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So if the people in shore who were affected took photos of the situation and the Dive must have video from their on board cameras.... what is the debate here? It should all be captured .
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Old 07-08-2019, 03:48 PM   #34
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The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
That's a catchy saying, but with all due respect, it's completely wrong.


If the same "anecdote" happened once a week for 10 weeks, you'd call it data, wouldn't you?
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Old 07-08-2019, 04:00 PM   #35
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That's a catchy saying, but with all due respect, it's completely wrong.


If the same "anecdote" happened once a week for 10 weeks, you'd call it data, wouldn't you?
An "anecdote" is generally a short, amusing, one-off kind of story. The saying I used means that you can't extrapolate from a single event to conclude that you have some kind of "data" or repeatable event.

At some point, if the thing keeps happening, it is probably no longer an anecdote, and may actually be "data", but we don't have that in this case, do we?
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Old 07-07-2019, 01:50 PM   #36
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Facebook only says they are closed today. Nothing about yesterday


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Old 07-07-2019, 05:43 PM   #37
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Lots of years ago Diversified Marine was bringing his barge up the lake from Alton and got caught in a squall. Dave told me he had both outboards (250s) wide open and he was barely holding his own. He only had his excavator on the barge and wasn’t dealing with 2 stories of sail.

Hope they didn’t damage the hull. Hate to see them shut down for an extended period of time.


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Old 07-07-2019, 06:28 PM   #38
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The Dive big barge ..... is the barge that doesn't run a-ground on Smith Point ..... yo heave ho ...... paddle, paddle, paddle ..... that they 're is Smith Point up ahead ..... so everybody ...... paddle, paddle, paddle! ...

Besides adding maybe six stand up paddle board paddles for auxiliary power when The Dive's two outboard can't cut it ...... maybe attaching a few of those monster 5" diameter foam noodles on the bow ...... for a cushion to protect the hull and soften the impact with whatever it hits?

....... land ho ....... here comes The Dive! ....... outta the way! ....

So, what really happened ...... nobody knows .... maybe the captain just momentarily dozed off at the wheel or something?
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Old 07-08-2019, 09:17 PM   #39
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Big thanks Woodsy!!!!


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Old 07-08-2019, 09:27 PM   #40
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Wow, thanks for posting the other side of the story.

From the beginning I wondered why the original poster asked what happened but then later comment on how they watched it all go down. Trying to stir the pot?

I feel sorry for those who bash anybody trying to take shelter from inclement conditions...it all boils down to the NIMBY mentality.
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Old 07-09-2019, 07:13 AM   #41
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Thanks Woody. Good to know there was, apparently, only minor spud damage. But, I agree with others, an emergency anchor might be a good idea. Good owners (it sounds like Dive owners are) learn from problems. I bet they already are addressing it.

On some shorefront owners being a-holes: I agree but, so are some boat owners, some off lake owners, some drivers, some posters, etc. That is the reality of life. I used to say “business would be great if I didn’t have to deal with customers.” Some people just suck.


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Old 07-09-2019, 07:24 AM   #42
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So the Dive owners give their side of the story and people who witnessed it give theirs, video/photos should be available by both...what's the real story? Boated on the lakes for a few years as a lakefront owner and everyone should be aware of weather conditions and be helpful in stormy times. I had people ask me to go try to retrieve their boats in nasty conditions that broke away, I wouldn't even attempt to row out to unhook the boat, never mind trying to chase one down the lake. Have been on the "Mount" that had to alter course in one of those nasty times in the broads, people have to give and take at those times. Safety first at all times.
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Old 07-09-2019, 12:29 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exlakesregioner View Post
So the Dive owners give their side of the story and people who witnessed it give theirs, video/photos should be available by both...what's the real story? .
I believe if you reread -- the Dive has video which they shared with MP and had enough class to keep off their FB page.


(From original Letter posted by woodsy) -- > "Ultimately the marine patrol and a state police officer came to see me and them at my request because of the obscenities that were being hurled ( which we have recorded)."

Keep in mind -- The Dive doesn't have a responsibility to "Plead their case" here in the Forum !!
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Old 07-09-2019, 01:38 PM   #44
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Thanks, Woodsy, very helpful. A couple of questions come to mind:

It sounds like the Dive does not deny they hit the rocks. I look forward to seeing the video as others have suggested.

Going one step further than FLL and Dave, not only is it hard to understand why vessel of any significant size would not have an anchor, I am surprised it is not the law. Perhaps spuds are a loophole?
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Old 07-09-2019, 01:57 PM   #45
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Quote:
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Thanks, Woodsy, very helpful. A couple of questions come to mind:

It sounds like the Dive does not deny they hit the rocks. I look forward to seeing the video as others have suggested.

Going one step further than FLL and Dave, not only is it hard to understand why vessel of any significant size would not have an anchor, I am surprised it is not the law. Perhaps spuds are a loophole?
I would be willing to bet that almost none of the large equipment barges on the lake have an anchor. They all use spuds and normally don't venture out whatsoever when its windy. They simply cannot be controlled properly in the wind no matter how big they are!

I had a barge at my island home last week and can confirm it had no anchor...

Dan
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Old 07-09-2019, 07:32 AM   #46
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Just a note that there appears to be two people posting about their observations (Momo, member for over a year and Lovehtelake [sic], brand new member), not just one.

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Old 07-09-2019, 08:37 AM   #47
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Woodsy, thanks for reaching out to the owners of the Dive....

Sounds like they where trying to do the right thing, and seek shelter from the storm. But ran into some complications. Spuds are great by they do indeed have to be long enough to reach bottom.

As for anchors as others have suggested, yes they would be a good idea. But remember they have to be sizable enough to do something. Which in the case of the Dive, may mean something big enough that it is not going to be something someone can manually move around, and thus the Dive would need to be redesigned to support.

The Dive at best is an experiment. There are going to be flaws that become obvious over time. And hopefully the commitment of the owners will be such that they will work to make improvements, and who knows may start work on a DIVE II....

I give them credit for their ambition. I think People need to relax, and not jump to conclusions. I doubt very much, that the Dive, wants to put anyone or their property at risk. They I would believe are doing the best they can. As I have mentioned in other threads, the vessel is under powered, that is difficulty #1... I am sure re-propping has helped. But ultimate a vessel that size doesn't need Horse Power, it needs Torque, I think there best bet is to look for an auxiliary Tug, to move the vessel around... But that does cost $$$, and I am sure they are just hoping to get out from under all the start up costs they have had at this point......
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Old 07-10-2019, 08:29 AM   #48
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Was just wondering if modern U.S.Navy nuclear submarines, which are very large vessels, have an anchor, and do they ever use it for anchoring? Seems like it would be highly unusual for a sub to be hooked to the bottom of the ocean while the sub was itself underwater.

Oh well, if a sub has an anchor and probably never uses it, then an anchor can be considered to be an item that is better to have and not use.

Applying dis tinking to The Dive ..... is better for The Dive to have an anchor and not need it, than to need an anchor and not have it!

Correctimondo!
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