Go Back   Winnipesaukee Forum > Winnipesaukee Forums > Home, Cottage or Land Maintenance
Home Forums Gallery YouTube Channel Classifieds Links Blogs Calendar Register FAQDonate Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-18-2017, 07:54 PM   #1
bigdog
Senior Member
 
bigdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Central MA-Gilford
Posts: 804
Thanks: 120
Thanked 57 Times in 47 Posts
Default Hot water issue - furnace ?

I've been having hot water issues in both my showers, and thought it may be related to the mixing valve in the Delta handle.

I decided to pull in a plumber to diagnose the issue. Much to my surprise, he didn't believe the issue was related to the mixing valve, but related to the furnace !

He checked the furnace, and the hot water pipe coming out of the boiler,
which feeds the house with hot water, and it was only warm to the touch, and he said it should be so hot you shouldn't be able to touch for long.

His diagnosis, was the coil in the boiler was 'toast' ! Furnace is 30 yrs old.
Installation is basically removing 4-5 bolts on a plate, removing and replacing the coil, and reassemble. Didn't have performed at the time.

Does this sound like the 'coil' is the root cause ?
If so, how much time should it take for replacement ?
bigdog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2017, 08:11 PM   #2
Tyler
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 85
Thanks: 13
Thanked 4 Times in 1 Post
Default

He is probably correct, I would have your furnace guy check it for a 2nd opinion.
Tyler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2017, 09:02 AM   #3
nhcatrider
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 119
Thanks: 17
Thanked 22 Times in 20 Posts
Default

How is the hot water in the rest of the house? If it's fine, then the coil isn't the problem. Also check your mixing valve, there might be a buildup in it.
nhcatrider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2017, 09:48 AM   #4
bigdog
Senior Member
 
bigdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Central MA-Gilford
Posts: 804
Thanks: 120
Thanked 57 Times in 47 Posts
Default

Thanks to all who have responded to my thread here !

I was also planning to have my furnace/oil dealer check out the issue.

Rest of house water from faucets coming out hot. but the washing machine
water start hot then goes to lukewarm within a minute or two.

That said, I still think the issues is related to the furnace, not being able to keep up with the demand.
bigdog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2017, 10:28 AM   #5
MAXUM
Senior Member
 
MAXUM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Hooksett, NH & Bear Island, NH
Posts: 1,499
Thanks: 165
Thanked 1,123 Times in 407 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdog View Post
Thanks to all who have responded to my thread here !

I was also planning to have my furnace/oil dealer check out the issue.

Rest of house water from faucets coming out hot. but the washing machine
water start hot then goes to lukewarm within a minute or two.

That said, I still think the issues is related to the furnace, not being able to keep up with the demand.
Had the same problem. Mine turned out to be the burner controller, it was waiting far to long to kick the burner on. Initially I attempted to screw with the temp adjustments but it didn't do a damn bit of good. In fact right before I replaced it - the burner would fail to start so I'd have to manually reset the burner. Replaced the controller and all was good. Before I did that however I did check to ensure the temp controller was operating correctly. Simple to do with a multi-meter.

My furnace has a Beckett burner. New controller was about $70.00 at FB Webb. In fact before I bought it I talked to the guys down there just to make sure I wasn't missing anything. They have some good knowledgeable folks working there. As it turns out the controller I had (brought in the part number with me) was known to be problematic and the new controller I got was updated one that supposedly addresses several problems. So far so good, in fact I've noticed that the false starts I had been getting pretty much since day one are no longer occurring. That should have been a clue there was a problem but at the time I figured since it was intermittent that it was normal behavior.
MAXUM is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to MAXUM For This Useful Post:
bigdog (03-19-2017), KennyFromBoston (03-22-2017), Marauder (03-19-2017)
Sponsored Links
Old 03-19-2017, 01:07 PM   #6
bigdog
Senior Member
 
bigdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Central MA-Gilford
Posts: 804
Thanks: 120
Thanked 57 Times in 47 Posts
Default Burner Control

Thanks MAXUM for the tip about 'burner control' !

When I have furnace tech review, I will mention the burner control as the possible issue... TBD
bigdog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2017, 01:43 PM   #7
SIKSUKR
Senior Member
 
SIKSUKR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 4,803
Thanks: 213
Thanked 885 Times in 497 Posts
Default

You say you have hot water at other points but the washer soon gets cooler. Before I assume its the coil run the other water points that seem fine for a while and see if they cool down. If so then I would suspect your coil could have caked up minerals that keep it from exchanging the heat from the boiler water to the hot water feed. I've replaced mine and it was very simple. In my case the boiler water pressure kept getting too high and the relief valve would open. Turns out I had a leak in that coil that would allow the higher water pressure to enter the lower pressure boiler water chamber. Easy fix though.
__________________
SIKSUKR
SIKSUKR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2017, 03:19 PM   #8
Formula260SS
Senior Member
 
Formula260SS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Rattlesnake & Londonderry, NH
Posts: 228
Thanks: 8
Thanked 26 Times in 12 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdog View Post
I've been having hot water issues in both my showers, and thought it may be related to the mixing valve in the Delta handle.

I decided to pull in a plumber to diagnose the issue. Much to my surprise, he didn't believe the issue was related to the mixing valve, but related to the furnace !

He checked the furnace, and the hot water pipe coming out of the boiler,
which feeds the house with hot water, and it was only warm to the touch, and he said it should be so hot you shouldn't be able to touch for long.

His diagnosis, was the coil in the boiler was 'toast' ! Furnace is 30 yrs old.
Installation is basically removing 4-5 bolts on a plate, removing and replacing the coil, and reassemble. Didn't have performed at the time.

Does this sound like the 'coil' is the root cause ?
If so, how much time should it take for replacement ?

The Plumber is correct, mine does the same thing. I have to replace my coil every 2 years or so.
Formula260SS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2017, 04:01 PM   #9
BroadHopper
Senior Member
 
BroadHopper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Laconia NH / Breckenridge CO
Posts: 4,391
Thanks: 2,085
Thanked 781 Times in 540 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Formula260SS View Post
The Plumber is correct, mine does the same thing. I have to replace my coil every 2 years or so.
This must be an oil burner. I have a Celtic natural gas boiler and have the original coil. Installed in 1978
__________________
Someday may never be an actual day.
BroadHopper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2017, 08:24 PM   #10
bigdog
Senior Member
 
bigdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Central MA-Gilford
Posts: 804
Thanks: 120
Thanked 57 Times in 47 Posts
Default

BroadHopper,

You are correct, I have an oil fired boiler, with Becket burner.
bigdog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2017, 03:05 PM   #11
SIKSUKR
Senior Member
 
SIKSUKR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 4,803
Thanks: 213
Thanked 885 Times in 497 Posts
Default

Really shouldnt matter what the boiler water is heated with cuz neither flame enters the boiler water. Its more of a function of water chemistry.
__________________
SIKSUKR
SIKSUKR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2017, 11:45 AM   #12
bigdog
Senior Member
 
bigdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Central MA-Gilford
Posts: 804
Thanks: 120
Thanked 57 Times in 47 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Formula260SS View Post
The Plumber is correct, mine does the same thing. I have to replace my coil every 2 years or so.

Had an estimate for coil replacement by oil dealer between $800-1,000
Coil $450 +/-
Replace anti-scalding mixing valve $150
2+ hrs labor.

On a 25+ year old furnace this may not be the most practical solution, considering the age.

They also gave an alternative suggestion to have a new valve installed on the furnace, on the water intake to the coil, and inject CLR calcium/lime treatment or vinegar, through that new valve, to remove the sediment on the coil, however, this may or may not work 100%. The downside of this treatment, it may create pin-holes in the coil , then big issues could occur, That and the fact the treatment may clog the water lines with sediments through the hot water house lines.

Another alternative solution, would be to install an electric hot water heater in the house, in a water/electrical closet I have. That estimate was $1,000. Still a TBD if this could be done ?

Thoughts?
bigdog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2017, 06:11 AM   #13
swnoel
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 48
Thanks: 14
Thanked 21 Times in 13 Posts
Default

I would suggest you do not replace the coil on a 30 year old boiler... putting $1000-1200 into a boiler that old is asking for trouble! Especially if the boiler decides to leak shortly after you spend the money! As has been suggested, either install an indirect or stand alone tank, either electric or if you already have propane, a power vented one. You can check if the coil is the problem merely by drawing hot water and grabbing the hot side of the coil... is it blistering hot or does it become out warm. It better be blistering hot! Please stop calling boilers furnaces... there is a DIFFERENCE!
swnoel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2017, 08:37 AM   #14
tummyman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Moultonborough
Posts: 309
Thanks: 46
Thanked 273 Times in 82 Posts
Default

Here is one thought....
#1. Do you like your place at the lake?
#2. Do you expect to own it for at least a few more years?

If so, spend the money and replace the boiler completely. Not usually a huge job and most likely under $5000. Be done with all the fooling around. Given its current age, it is likely on life support anyway and you will have to replace it at some time in the future. If you sell at some point, it will be a selling feature. At least look at this alternative before making any further decisions. Get three quotes to do the job.
tummyman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2017, 09:02 AM   #15
nhcatrider
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 119
Thanks: 17
Thanked 22 Times in 20 Posts
Default

My new boiler was $3k plus the install costs, which ended up being beer (I had a friend install it). My old one would have needed almost $2k in repairs and it was older than me.
nhcatrider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2017, 10:02 AM   #16
MRD
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 9
Thanks: 7
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Default

Plus with a modern efficient boiler you will save on fuel costs over a older unit.
MRD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2017, 10:12 AM   #17
John E
Member
 
John E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 35
Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
Default

Usually when the coil fails on a 30 year old boiler it is not worth trying to replace. You may not even be able to remove it if the steel or cast iron has rusted it in place. I would lean towards replacing the entire boiler, as others have said. Another choice would be to add an indirect water heater. (superstore, etc). You'll need to add a hot water zone to the boiler, but that is easy. It's a much better setup than the coil on the boiler, and isn't "a waste" even if you change out the boiler in the next few years.
John E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2017, 10:24 AM   #18
tummyman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Moultonborough
Posts: 309
Thanks: 46
Thanked 273 Times in 82 Posts
Default

Check out link below. New boiler cost DELIVERED is $1930. These are great boilers...incredible castings. I have two in use...oil... at two different locations and they are over 10 years old. Still at 86%+ efficiency with annual cleanings. They also have gas/propane options. European castings are so much better than US. Check out your boiler size...could be slightly higher or lower cost depending on your needs. I heat my NH home year round....2300 sq. ft. with all my hot water off boiler with indirect 50 gal tank....and use around 800 gal's of oil per year. In the winter, we set the thermostats at 60 when we are not there. So with a little plumbing work to make the connections and an indirect water heater/tank, you can do the job for under $5000. Think long term.....and yes, you will save oil to offset costs as well.

http://www.houseneeds.com/heating/hy...st-iron-b10-b4
tummyman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2017, 07:00 PM   #19
swnoel
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 48
Thanks: 14
Thanked 21 Times in 13 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tummyman View Post
Check out link below. New boiler cost DELIVERED is $1930. These are great boilers...incredible castings. I have two in use...oil... at two different locations and they are over 10 years old. Still at 86%+ efficiency with annual cleanings. They also have gas/propane options. European castings are so much better than US. Check out your boiler size...could be slightly higher or lower cost depending on your needs. I heat my NH home year round....2300 sq. ft. with all my hot water off boiler with indirect 50 gal tank....and use around 800 gal's of oil per year. In the winter, we set the thermostats at 60 when we are not there. So with a little plumbing work to make the connections and an indirect water heater/tank, you can do the job for under $5000. Think long term.....and yes, you will save oil to offset costs as well.

http://www.houseneeds.com/heating/hy...st-iron-b10-b4
I need to tell you that I'm in the business and have been for decades... your boiler is not 86% efficient! Maybe 70--75%! Any efficiency rating you're seeing is from the burn of the burner not the boiler! The only oil boiler that is truly efficient in the mid 80's is an Energy Kinetics System 2000!

http://energykinetics.com/afue/
swnoel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2017, 08:20 PM   #20
bigdog
Senior Member
 
bigdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Central MA-Gilford
Posts: 804
Thanks: 120
Thanked 57 Times in 47 Posts
Default

Leaning toward total replacement of furnace.

Brands considering: Lennox, Rheem, Carrier, Trane and Ducane.

Any one have knowledge about these, good or bad info appreciated.

Thanks,
BD
bigdog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2017, 10:14 AM   #21
Hawley
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Default Hawley

These units are manufacturers of warm air furnaces. They do not make hot water. The efficiency that you mention is a snap shot of the operation of the oil burner when the unit was tested. I too have been in the business for over forty years. If you decide to replace the boiler have your contractor quote any cast iron, wet base American made boiler. I be glad to answer any other heating or hot water questions. Enjoy the day and be safe.
Hawley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2017, 11:58 AM   #22
dpg
Senior Member
 
dpg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,263
Thanks: 131
Thanked 204 Times in 146 Posts
Default

Can't comment on a Rheem boiler but had a new Rheem hot water heater replaced last year and had to switch out the igniter coil "thingie" within two months! The plumber that installed it (one man show) was away on vacation not to be back for 10 days. I called Rheem, they diagnosed it then I had to find a supply house for the part. Total PITA for a two month old water heater. I'm not mr mechanic and it wasn't to bad to swap out.
dpg is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to dpg For This Useful Post:
SteveO123 (04-04-2017)
Old 04-04-2017, 12:08 PM   #23
bigdog
Senior Member
 
bigdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Central MA-Gilford
Posts: 804
Thanks: 120
Thanked 57 Times in 47 Posts
Default

I contacted my oil dealer to discuss boiler replacement options, and Biasi Fuel Oil Boilers was his first choice. He said these are so reliable, efficient and the best value.

I had concerns about parts and service for this brand, but he said most of the service techs in the area, are familiar with this product, and made me feel comfortable with this choice. Biasi boiler would require a separate indirect water tank for the hot water side.

His sales to customers of Biasi, have so few issues, and last for years, he feels like the Maytag service guy, with very little to do !

Planning to pull the trigger soon on decision.
bigdog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2017, 01:50 PM   #24
bigdog
Senior Member
 
bigdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Central MA-Gilford
Posts: 804
Thanks: 120
Thanked 57 Times in 47 Posts
Default

Follow-up.......

Just spoke with another HVAC professional I've dealt with for many years....
He recommended 'Crown' boilers (The burner comes packaged with the boiler).

Consumer testing reports gives 'Crown' high marks !

Anyone have this brand boiler, if so how dependable are they ?

Thanks,
Bigdog
bigdog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2017, 03:11 PM   #25
Longtimelurker
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1
Thanks: 50
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

I have had the Biasi boiler with the indirect storage tank for a year now and I am very happy with it. Stafford oil recommended and installed it. The hot water amount and temp is much more consistent than the hot water coil.
Longtimelurker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2017, 07:28 PM   #26
tummyman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Moultonborough
Posts: 309
Thanks: 46
Thanked 273 Times in 82 Posts
Default Biasi Boilers

I have had a Biasi in my NH home since 2005 and not one single problem. Service folks love the easy which they can be cleaned. At my MA house, right after I installed the NH Biasi , my Burnham had developed a leak and I had to change it out. I called my oil guy and told him to get a Biasi for me. He had no idea where to go, but i put him in touch with the US distributor in Portsmouth NH. He got the boiler....was surprised at how easy to install. I told him at the time that it would not be the last one he installed. Fast forward to now....he installs ONLY Biasi unless a customer requests a specific boiler. Has had hundreds of them installed and ZERO problems. My MA boiler is his first and the fleet leader he watches should any problem arise. So far, it runs terrific. BTW, you and I were going to chat off line...... Need more info, google QHTinc.com and give them a call in Portsmouth. I chatted with them a number of times before I ordered my boiler. BTW, my Biasi is installed in a first floor closet in my home....not even in the basement. I can send pictures if you want.
tummyman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2017, 09:53 PM   #27
bigdog
Senior Member
 
bigdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Central MA-Gilford
Posts: 804
Thanks: 120
Thanked 57 Times in 47 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tummyman View Post
I have had a Biasi in my NH home since 2005 and not one single problem. Service folks love the easy which they can be cleaned. At my MA house, right after I installed the NH Biasi , my Burnham had developed a leak and I had to change it out. I called my oil guy and told him to get a Biasi for me. He had no idea where to go, but i put him in touch with the US distributor in Portsmouth NH. He got the boiler....was surprised at how easy to install. I told him at the time that it would not be the last one he installed. Fast forward to now....he installs ONLY Biasi unless a customer requests a specific boiler. Has had hundreds of them installed and ZERO problems. My MA boiler is his first and the fleet leader he watches should any problem arise. So far, it runs terrific. BTW, you and I were going to chat off line...... Need more info, google QHTinc.com and give them a call in Portsmouth. I chatted with them a number of times before I ordered my boiler. BTW, my Biasi is installed in a first floor closet in my home....not even in the basement. I can send pictures if you want.

Hi Tummyman...
Yes, I've been meaning to call you, and will as soon as my work schedule frees up, hopefully soon !

My furnace guy also recommend Biasi boiler, but I have a unique setup.
My boiler is actually in a separate building attached to the main house, and he isn't sure that the boiler and a indirect water unit would fit into the same space ? How much space do you need for the Indirect unit ?

FYI, my furnace guy is in MA and hasn't actually looked at the storage space issue, where everything will be housed.

Thanks for your feedback, will call you soon.
bigdog is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

This page was generated in 0.12886 seconds