Why would someone want a NWZ?

[sunset on the dock]

The other NWZ thread prompted a dinner discussion with friends and family. Reasons for wanting a NWZ might include safety, wake damage, shore erosion, wildlife concerns etc. but the one BIG reason that kept coming up in our discussion was noise. Now undoubtedly some will get flamed by such a discussion but try to bear with this for a bit. This topic is being brought up not to discuss whether or not how people react is right or wrong but rather why they react in a certain way.
So, you have a situation where people who might have lived in such and such an area for a long time. These people agree that boat traffic over the past decade or two has increased but what is bothersome to them even more is the noise. Most all on this forum would agree that decibel limits have been quite hard and very cumbersome to enforce and some in the above mentioned area might argue that said limits are not strict enough. People in this area may have concerns about the erosion, wildlife etc. but what really brings the matter to their attention is having to stop a conversation when a boat roars by. I have argued in the past that perhaps the #1 force behind another controversial law was noise, far more than safety. One person present at this discussion mentioned publicity ads for NH tourism that have been playing lately showing someone jumping off a dock or hearing a loon etc. These ads and the ones in print tend not to show some GFBL screaming down the lake.
So here you might have renters sayng to the cottage owner "I'm renting this cottage using my hard earned $ because I want relaxation and if I liked this noise I'd go camping on the median strip of 495". People want the problem dealt with and use whatever means are available to solve it. So again, this discussion isn't necessarily to argue whether this is right or wrong but to discuss why people do what they do. In this case, if you tick off, disturb, annoy, and irritate enough people they will try to fix said problem by whatever means are available. And I would bet my last dollar that noise is what's mainly behind some of the pushes for NWZ's and that other unmentionable law.
I was asked a while back on this forum if I would be as annoyed by a loud old "woodie" that cruises past and evokes that so called Golden Pond nostalgia and I needed to think about it a while and do some personal observations. Several of these have passed by since then and in reality none seem to quite come all that close to some of the GFBL's that come by at 45 MPH or faster (and we all know from some discussions on this forum and others that indeed they are going faster than 45 MPH by their own admission). And by the way we thought we heard that DHuberty (?Baja) last night which seems to be in a class by itself. No wooden boat I've heard has ever come close to that noise.

So the point...people live in a democracy and as above if a majority get irritated enough to want change, then they act. Right or wrong, this is the way it is and has been in this country throughout its history. We see boats speed by where we live all the time that are barely audible and it's not like we run out on the dock with clenched fists saying to one another that this is not safe. Other boats tend to call attention to themselves and this may be a very significant part of why some would push for a NWZ.

Undoubtedly some will take offense to this post and come back with some of the usual less than erudite and immature remarks(like "pleeeeeaaaaaase", "do you have something for nausea" , and "get a life") yet I bet most of the people on this forum will see that this is an explanation for why people feel they do and respond with intelligent remarks. I think that it is that minority of very loud boats that is behind recent and future laws. What do you think?

[Dave R]

Sounds like a reasonable explanation, and a terrible reason for a NWZ. There already are laws governing sound levels. If folks don't want to hear boats, they should consider moving away from a lake that's famous for its wonderful boating rather than attempt to punish all boaters for the select few that are louder than they deem acceptable.

I am fully in favor of strict enforcement of sound levels. I don't like loud boats either.

My boat tops out around 49 with a typical load and does not have through-hull exhaust, so it is very "quiet".

[ishoot308]

I have seen a lot of boats go by my camp for the past couple years and I would say that 99% of them are completely sound / speed legal. For the one percent that are not, I simply do not let it worry me as there are other more important things in life I need to worry about.

Dan

[rick35]

Four across near the Cattle Landing is a scary situation when you're the only one going at headway speed. And headway speed is dangerous because there may be someone coming up behind you who isn't slowing down. Its time for NWZ there.

[sunset on the dock]

Originally Posted by rick35

Four across near the Cattle Landing is a scary situation when you're the only one going at headway speed. And headway speed is dangerous because there may be someone coming up behind you who isn't slowing down. Its time for NWZ there.

Where is the cattle landing?

[Rattlesnake Guy]

It is not just people who live in tight quarters who have the passage of boats at 150 feet. Some boats are loud but most are not. I don't let the few bother me. Everyone who lives on, or near the lake is in a similar condition. Only the frequency of events might change from area to area. It might be an assumed risk with living next to a State Park with motorized vehicles.

We actually do not live in a democracy. We live in a "Democratic Republic". We democratically elect people who we hope represent our values to make the correct decision for us. For example, if the majority of us believed the speed limit on 93 should be 95 mph, it does not mean that is what would happen. We trust our elected officials to make the right decision for us. Sometimes that works out and sometimes it does not. (I could name a few examples where it has not worked out for the majority of us on the national level)

SSOTD, I do appreciate the calm tenner of your post.

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by sunset on the dock

The other NWZ thread prompted a dinner discussion with friends and family. Reasons for wanting a NWZ might include safety, wake damage, shore erosion, wildlife concerns etc. but the one BIG reason that kept coming up in our discussion was noise. Now undoubtedly some will get flamed by such a discussion but try to bear with this for a bit. This topic is being brought up not to discuss whether or not how people react is right or wrong but rather why they react in a certain way.
So, you have a situation where people who might have lived in such and such an area for a long time. These people agree that boat traffic over the past decade or two has increased but what is bothersome to them even more is the noise. Most all on this forum would agree that decibel limits have been quite hard and very cumbersome to enforce and some in the above mentioned area might argue that said limits are not strict enough. People in this area may have concerns about the erosion, wildlife etc. but what really brings the matter to their attention is having to stop a conversation when a boat roars by. I have argued in the past that perhaps the #1 force behind another controversial law was noise, far more than safety. One person present at this discussion mentioned publicity ads for NH tourism that have been playing lately showing someone jumping off a dock or hearing a loon etc. These ads and the ones in print tend not to show some GFBL screaming down the lake.
So here you might have renters sayng to the cottage owner "I'm renting this cottage using my hard earned $ because I want relaxation and if I liked this noise I'd go camping on the median strip of 495". People want the problem dealt with and use whatever means are available to solve it. So again, this discussion isn't necessarily to argue whether this is right or wrong but to discuss why people do what they do. In this case, if you tick off, disturb, annoy, and irritate enough people they will try to fix said problem by whatever means are available. And I would bet my last dollar that noise is what's mainly behind some of the pushes for NWZ's and that other unmentionable law.
I was asked a while back on this forum if I would be as annoyed by a loud old "woodie" that cruises past and evokes that so called Golden Pond nostalgia and I needed to think about it a while and do some personal observations. Several of these have passed by since then and in reality none seem to quite come all that close to some of the GFBL's that come by at 45 MPH or faster (and we all know from some discussions on this forum and others that indeed they are going faster than 45 MPH by their own admission). And by the way we thought we heard that DHuberty (?Baja) last night which seems to be in a class by itself. No wooden boat I've heard has ever come close to that noise.

So the point...people live in a democracy and as above if a majority get irritated enough to want change, then they act. Right or wrong, this is the way it is and has been in this country throughout its history. We see boats speed by where we live all the time that are barely audible and it's not like we run out on the dock with clenched fists saying to one another that this is not safe. Other boats tend to call attention to themselves and this may be a very significant part of why some would push for a NWZ.

Undoubtedly some will take offense to this post and come back with some of the usual less than erudite and immature remarks(like "pleeeeeaaaaaase", "do you have something for nausea" , and "get a life") yet I bet most of the people on this forum will see that this is an explanation for why people feel they do and respond with intelligent remarks. I think that it is that minority of very loud boats that is behind recent and future laws. What do you think?

Couldn't disagree with you more. Sorry and it has nothing to do with our polar opposite viewpoints on that other subject. It has to do with the boats having to come off and then subsequently back up on plane in that NWZ which is often louder than a boat just cruising by at 35-45MPH. So this is a huge be careful what you wish for. Whether it was you or your neighbors someone would end up being the house in the speed up slow down section of the NWZ , so that is a terrible reason for wanting one. Unless of course the people you speak of are so self centered and selfish that they don't care about the folks in the "speed up/slow down zone." Add to that the extra large wakes in that zone from people coming up and off plane. Remember with every action comes unintended consequences and this is not just a simple "Well I'm in the middle of the NWZ so it doesn't affect me."

Just my .02

[sunset on the dock]

Originally Posted by Dave R

Sounds like a reasonable explanation, and a terrible reason for a NWZ. There already are laws governing sound levels.

Maybe you're right. But they couldn't get Al Capone on murder charges so they got him for tax evasion. People may similarly feel that the noise situation has gotten out of hand over the past 20 years but the noise laws are too awkward and cumbersome...so what happens? Next best thing...SL and NWZ's.

My biggest problem was NEVER the speed/safety per se but rather the escalation of noise over the years. I know there are many who felt similarly.

[NoBozo]

I detect a Very NEW approach from SOTD. Be Careful you people....Just sayin NB

[OCDACTIVE]

Sunset,

I have always appreciated your thoughts on this. You have never hidden what you feel is the biggest issue (to you) on the lake and that is noise. I don't think any NWZ will ever take care of this for you. Only those who adhere to the current noise standards will fix this problem. However no matter what law is ever passed there will always be a small percentage of those who will break it. We shouldn't punish all those who are adhering to the law (and paying A LOT of money to be able to).

If noise is your largest issue then perhaps asking for stricter fines and enforcement of current noise levels is where you should put your efforts. There is also a law on the NH books "banning" switchable exhaust. This is such a shame because this could actually make boats even quieter. Keep the same standards and allow for switchable exhaust and in all the bays, canals etc it could be used to subdue the noise even further. Contrary to beliefs of others switchable exhaust can not be used at speed. This was the initial fear of many who passed the initial law that people would turn it on whenever they saw an MP. Well they can do that only if they want to blow their engines.

This seems to be something that may not fix the problem in your eyes but at least help.

**P.S.** in many threads you have said that boat traffic has increased dramatically on NH lakes. This is true in comparrison to the 80's however there has been a decrease over the past 5 years according to NH registration statistics back to the early 1990's numbers.

[rick35]

Originally Posted by sunset on the dock

Where is the cattle landing?

The Cattle Landing is the public dock at the south end of Meredith Neck. Its near the closest point from the Neck to Dolly and Bear Islands. Its a dangerous place on weekends.

[KTO]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

I simply do not let it worry me as there are other more important things in life I need to worry about.

Couldn't think of a better way to put it...

[Dhuberty24]

Actually, I was out in a bow rider on the lake last night. And we were doing the speed limit. And we slowed down in NWZ's and followed all the rules of the water. If you wanna "get opinions" on something, why don't you talk about renters/people that don't know the lake or rules enough to know which boat has the right of way? That's something that can actually hurt people - the noise of my boat (yes, Baja) will not. BTW, we decided to not take my boat our last night since we knew we'd be out late, as to not end up on the forum, but here you are again calling me out specifically. Let's agree to disagree on the noise issue and drop it.

Originally Posted by sunset on the dock

And by the way we thought we heard that DHuberty (?Baja) last night which seems to be in a class by itself. No wooden boat I've heard has ever come close to that noise.

[sunset on the dock]

One more thing about the noise. I guess a lot of one's perception has to do with where you reside. For example, if you live on the east side of Rattlesnake Is. then the traffic is less likely to be hugging the shore and the noise issue will be less of a problem. If you live near the entrance to Winter Harbor then it will be a different story. I would be impressed if SBONH were to embrace tougher noise standards (lower decibel limits) with tougher fines for violators. Yes, the safety inspections and all is a good start but what will really win over the skeptics from the other side, as per my initial post on this thread, will be a committment to making the performance boats less intrusive to people who come to the lake for a more tranquil experience. And yes, one could argue that if the noise bothers you than you should move to a quieter lake yet many were here before noise was this big a problem. It's unlikely that I'll move away from family and long time friends...most people will fight to preserve what is important to them rather than throwing in the towel and running away. SOTD

[BroadHopper]

As far back as I remember, there has always been noisy boats on the Lake. I have grew up on the Broads. Noise has been and always be a fact of life on the Broads. back to the 50's. I don't find it any louder but I do find it being noisier a few years ago. Now, with less boats, the noise is less.

What I do find noisier is the planes coming in and out of the Laconia airport. There is more complaints now in the Gilford, Laconia area about the corporate jets that flys in and out of the airport. NASCAR weekends are notorious. Celebrities like Steven Tyler moved into the area and so do their jets.

As for the classic boats. My 1988 has the classic DARPA exhausts. I had to take the switch out when it became law. The reason why it is noisy around the docks and NWZ is because the exhaust requires water for silencing. At speed there is plenty of water to quiet it down. Around the docks less water flow creates more noise. I use to switch to the underwater I/O exhaust at low speed. Then switch back at high speed. No longer.

[jrc]

From practical experience, I think a no wake zone will make the noise problem worse. A few weeks back, I was docked a Meredith when a boat with open exhausts slowly cruised back and forth waiting for an open dock. The glass on my boat shook when the thru-hulls faced me. I was almost ready to give him my spot just for the quiet. Years ago I got stuck in the channel behind a similar boat. Wow at idle those things are loud.

Now when out I'm on the water or sitting on shore and a boat zooms past, it's much different, I'm not 20 feet away and in 10 seconds they are gone. Some are still too loud, but they are few and far between.

So unless a new NWZ drives the loud boats from the lake, it will just make the problem worse. Now if someone thinks a NWZ in front of their place will drive the loud boats to their neighbors place, well that's not very neighborly.

I think allowing switchable exhaust could work, given that the noisy selection must still meet the noise limits.

[trfour]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

As far back as I remember, there has always been noisy boats on the Lake. I have grew up on the Broads. Noise has been and always be a fact of life on the Broads. back to the 50's. I don't find it any louder but I do find it being noisier a few years ago. Now, with less boats, the noise is less.

What I do find noisier is the planes coming in and out of the Laconia airport. There is more complaints now in the Gilford, Laconia area about the corporate jets that flys in and out of the airport. NASCAR weekends are notorious. Celebrities like Steven Tyler moved into the area and so do their jets.

As for the classic boats. My 1988 has the classic DARPA exhausts. I had to take the switch out when it became law. The reason why it is noisy around the docks and NWZ is because the exhaust requires water for silencing. At speed there is plenty of water to quiet it down. Around the docks less water flow creates more noise. I use to switch to the underwater I/O exhaust at low speed. Then switch back at high speed. No longer.

' NOISE ' is everywhere! Folks are up for enjoyment these days, however, ' The Shut Up Crowd Is On The Rise '! The new aircraft designs are to mount the engines Over the wings to reduce the noise level on the ground.

One thing that we can count on is, Life is all about Noise, take a stand and get used to it!... If you take the time and get it, sound is half the fun!

Think about the sound of loons!... Now, if the earth was meant to be quiet, wouldn't you miss the Lake's point?


Folks need to get'along over here! 'Try To Make It Happen '!!!!

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by sunset on the dock

One more thing about the noise. I guess a lot of one's perception has to do with where you reside. For example, if you live on the east side of Rattlesnake Is. then the traffic is less likely to be hugging the shore and the noise issue will be less of a problem. If you live near the entrance to Winter Harbor then it will be a different story. I would be impressed if SBONH were to embrace tougher noise standards (lower decibel limits) with tougher fines for violators. Yes, the safety inspections and all is a good start but what will really win over the skeptics from the other side, as per my initial post on this thread, will be a committment to making the performance boats less intrusive to people who come to the lake for a more tranquil experience. And yes, one could argue that if the noise bothers you than you should move to a quieter lake yet many were here before noise was this big a problem. It's unlikely that I'll move away from family and long time friends...most people will fight to preserve what is important to them rather than throwing in the towel and running away. SOTD

Sunset, please understand that SBONH was founded to make the lake a safer place not to make the lake a more tranquil place (that may be a side benefit). We are an organization that wants to see existing boating laws enforced evenly. We want to see the uneducated boaters be educated.

Regarding the noise issue, I support the use of switchable exhausts. I support MP performing testing of boats with questionable exhausts much as I do with the State Police checking V-Twin motorcycles (which I also own and ride).

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by jrc

From practical experience, I think a no wake zone will make the noise problem worse. A few weeks back, I was docked a Meredith when a boat with open exhausts slowly cruised back and forth waiting for an open dock. The glass on my boat shook when the thru-hulls faced me. I was almost ready to give him my spot just for the quiet. Years ago I got stuck in the channel behind a similar boat. Wow at idle those things are loud.

Now when out I'm on the water or sitting on shore and a boat zooms past, it's much different, I'm not 20 feet away and in 10 seconds they are gone. Some are still too loud, but they are few and far between.

So unless a new NWZ drives the loud boats from the lake, it will just make the problem worse. Now if someone thinks a NWZ in front of their place will drive the loud boats to their neighbors place, well that's not very neighborly.

I think allowing switchable exhaust could work, given that the noisy selection must still meet the noise limits.

JRC, I may have been there the same day with my family- we were eating at the Town Docks and there was a guy with a blue Fountain with twins idling back and forth, back and forth. Finally 15 minutes or so go by and he finally docks, only to take off 10 minutes later (of course he had to let the boat "warm" up and idled for 10 minutes while prepping to leave)

[Mink Islander]

Originally Posted by rick35

The Cattle Landing is the public dock at the south end of Meredith Neck. Its near the closest point from the Neck to Dolly and Bear Islands. Its a dangerous place on weekends.

I've long thought and supported making this a NWZ. Not only is it narrow through there and a very busy route on the lake, you also have the Bear Islanders who have to cross perpendicular to the primary flow of traffic to get to the Cattle Landing docks.

That area can be complete madness on a nice day in the summer.

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by sunset on the dock

One more thing about the noise. I guess a lot of one's perception has to do with where you reside. For example, if you live on the east side of Rattlesnake Is. then the traffic is less likely to be hugging the shore and the noise issue will be less of a problem. If you live near the entrance to Winter Harbor then it will be a different story. I would be impressed if SBONH were to embrace tougher noise standards (lower decibel limits) with tougher fines for violators. Yes, the safety inspections and all is a good start but what will really win over the skeptics from the other side, as per my initial post on this thread, will be a committment to making the performance boats less intrusive to people who come to the lake for a more tranquil experience. And yes, one could argue that if the noise bothers you than you should move to a quieter lake yet many were here before noise was this big a problem. It's unlikely that I'll move away from family and long time friends...most people will fight to preserve what is important to them rather than throwing in the towel and running away. SOTD

Sunset, As Vitabene stated SBONH is a group developed and continuing to try to promote safety and boating education. We support current laws and what the dept. of safety recommends.

However, perhaps LIFORELAXING will chime in. In a different thread he actually looked up the data regarding OSHA regulations and how the decible limits were choosen. This was a very good post and provided substance and reasonings behind the current standards. I will not speak for SBONH, however I do not believe they need to lower the decible level per the facts liforelaxin had posted, but I do believe there should be stricter enforcement and higher fines.

The issue is the MP's budget was slashed and they have to do what they can to make the lake safer. Passing further laws won't help for they need a bigger budget to enforce all the current laws.

I think your efforts should be focused there. Work hard with the legislature to return the $700K from the "dedecated fund" LOL that was built by boat registrations then stolen and put into the "general fund". While actions like this continue to happen no matter what laws are passed, there won't be enough resources there to enforce them.

[SAMIAM]

I'm all for a NWZ when safety is the main concern but in our case, our whole bay was made into one because of complaints by a few very vocal residents.
Here's the result so far. We can no longer ski from our dock or beach.....not the end of the world for sure but without the constant wash from boat wakes we get sediment build up and weeds trying to take hold. Lily pads and milfoil is springing up where none existed before and cleaning is a weekly chore.
We are in a small bay that is fairly calm even when it's windy so we don't get any wave action from mother nature.
Also, I agree with OCD that exaust systems, such as "Silent Choice " should be allowed. That way, people with performance systems could keep them quite along the shore and around neighors and let them rip out on the open water.

[LIforrelaxin]

Please read the following thread to find all the good information on sound limits and there basis on Lake Winnipesaukee.

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...ght=OSHA+sound

I spent a lot of time researching the information in that thread. All of which pointed to one simple fact. The Noise limits are based on good hard facts. No one can convince me other wise. The only part of the Noise control law for boats I don't agree with is the non allowance of switchable exhaust. But that is a tail for another day. The Sound decibel levels are right where they should be. All the information I found is freely available on the web.

Now what people need to remember and often forget is sound resonates over water, and travels unimpeded.... until something absorbs it. That is why a loons cry can be heard way of in the distance, or a boat even with through hub exhaust can be heard coming across the lake...

NWZ aren't going to solve anything, as Hazelnut points out, boats speed up after them, that is when they produce the most noise.... Tighter noise laws aren't going to do anything either..... I can play my radio at a fairly normal level, take the boat out across the lake and hear it on the other side....

My suggestion to people that want quite by the water... plant some shrubs, do somethings along the water edge that help absorb the sound... that is how you will quite things down.... If you clear all the trees, and shubs and put a deck right up to the waters edge, you of course are going to here the sound, you have left nothing in the way to absorb it.

[Shreddy]

Regardless of what you want, noise is an issue that is almost uncontrollable and can, for the most part, only be enforced by friends I personally believe. The laws cannot hold up when fought in court...I know this from first hand experience. I received a noise violation, of which, I fought in court because I knew the way the officer handled the situation as well as the way the law was written, it wouldn't have a chance to hold up in court. Granted, this was on a snowmobile. However, it is the same for boats. To take an accurate decibel reading, all factors need to be equal. It is IMPOSSIBLE to get an accurate decibel reading on the water. The reason F&G as well as MP write these tickets is because they are enforcing what they think, or want to believe, are broken laws without proper logic/evidence to prove the law is broken. They understand a sold portion of activity in this area is driven by out-of-staters. They know they can write a ticket, regardless if the law was broken or not, because they know the majority of "violators" will simply pay the fine rather than taking the day to fight a dumb violation (unlike myself).

I understand your gripe SSOTD, but YOU are the minority. Many people might agree with you and say they do not appreciate the loud noise, but I've never heard someone consistently rant about it. As mentioned, why let those 5-10 seconds bother you? It's noise, it's not some guy throwing lightning bolts at you from his boat. THERE IS NO THREAT OF SAFETY.

If you feel so strongly about this issue, I highly suggest personally doing something about it rather than coming on here and crying about the issue. Don't go begging SBONH to take care of something you want done. We've heard it...over, and over, and over again. You're beating a dead horse.

[sunset on the dock]

Originally Posted by VitaBene

Sunset, please understand that SBONH was founded to make the lake a safer place not to make the lake a more tranquil place (that may be a side benefit). We are an organization that wants to see existing boating laws enforced evenly. We want to see the uneducated boaters be educated.

I assume from above a previous posts that you are an officer in SBONH? Why not broaden SBONH's mission statement...how about SCBONH...Safe Courteous Boaters of NH...I seriously feel this would go a long way toward enhancing the people's perception of a group that many see as promoting the GFBL interests.

And speaking of officers and enhancing SBONH's reputation, sending private messages like the one my wife found so disturbing a while back will not achieve this goal. As an officer of SBONH one wants to think of character and integrity but sending that kind of nasty PM instead reflects a culture of irresponsible thuggery and immaturity that some tend to equate with the GFBL crowd. SBONH or SCBONH cannot afford to promote this image.

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by sunset on the dock

. And by the way we thought we heard that DHuberty (?Baja) last night which seems to be in a class by itself. No wooden boat I've heard has ever come close to that noise.

Now onto my second and hopefully last post in this thread.

STOD, don't single a person out... The noise from a Baja, or what ever boat Dhuberty may own... is probably no louder then that of a wooden boat.... It the tones that are different... you may find the particular tones of one boat over another less annoying the others, and I think that what you need to think about.

For instance, I have several neighbors with through hull exhausts .... I hear them start up all the time... but there is one that is unique and completely identifiable to me... it not that he is louder, or closer or anything of that nature. But the tones that the boat produces grab my attention... In fact he is probably quieter then a couple of the other boats... But for some reason, the tones that come out of his boat resonate in my ears more... I am sure if I was nosy enough what I would find is that he has a muffling system that is unique.. But I really don't care.... I just hear him fire up... and I know what boat will be passing by shortly......

[OCDACTIVE]

Thanks Sunset,

As I have always stated I appreciate your posts and ideas. You may want to consider meeting up with us at our next event or meeting. We are always willing to hear of new ideas and positions.

Right now we are focused solely on inspections this summer. It is something that can be done immediately to improve safety on the lake (right now). We have been approached by a multitude of groups and others to support their cause(s). While we have grown immensely in the past few months and been able to continue the campaign of safety, we don't yet have the full resources needed to combat every issue on the lake. This is why we are devoting our full attention on the inspections and getting the word out about boating safety and education.

[sunset on the dock]

Originally Posted by Shreddy

Regardless of what you want, noise is an issue that is almost uncontrollable and can, for the most part, only be enforced by friends I personally believe. The laws cannot hold up when fought in court...I know this from first hand experience. I received a noise violation, of which, I fought in court because I knew the way the officer handled the situation as well as the way the law was written, it wouldn't have a chance to hold up in court. Granted, this was on a snowmobile. However, it is the same for boats. To take an accurate decibel reading, all factors need to be equal. It is IMPOSSIBLE to get an accurate decibel reading on the water. The reason F&G as well as MP write these tickets is because they are enforcing what they think, or want to believe, are broken laws without proper logic/evidence to prove the law is broken. They understand a sold portion of activity in this area is driven by out-of-staters. They know they can write a ticket, regardless if the law was broken or not, because they know the majority of "violators" will simply pay the fine rather than taking the day to fight a dumb violation (unlike myself).

I understand your gripe SSOTD, but YOU are the minority. Many people might agree with you and say they do not appreciate the loud noise, but I've never heard someone consistently rant about it. As mentioned, why let those 5-10 seconds bother you? It's noise, it's not some guy throwing lightning bolts at you from his boat. THERE IS NO THREAT OF SAFETY.

If you feel so strongly about this issue, I highly suggest personally doing something about it rather than coming on here and crying about the issue. Don't go begging SBONH to take care of something you want done. We've heard it...over, and over, and over again. You're beating a dead horse.

And we've heard your statement in the past that you like your snowmobiles, boats, bikes etc. loud because you like to draw attention to your toys that you are proud of. We also saw your rude abbreviation telling someone to shut up in the past which seemed to have gotten you moderated. As I said before, the noise issue was part and parcel of why we have a law that you don't like so we are not in the minority. Accept this or expect other laws that curb your "freedoms".

[BroadHopper]

SOTD. I have received nasty PMs from supporters. I do not send a nasty PM unless someone send me one. I know 'two wrongs don't make it right' but the nastiness of the PMs make me do an 'Eye for an eye'. Especially when one supporter threaten my whole family. Leave my family out of it. They are a respectable and generous beneficiary of the town of Gilford. No need of slander. This thread is what democracy is about. Too hatch out a better future for all.

I propose that Gov. Lynch form a committee with citizens from the boating community and shore-front owners. Go over all the laws governing boating and determine what is best to suit their needs. Same as Gov. Sunnunu's sunset committee. We need to 'Ready, Aim, Shoot'. Not 'Ready, Shoot then Aim'.

[Shreddy]

Originally Posted by sunset on the dock

And we've heard your statement in the past that you like your snowmobiles, boats, bikes etc. loud because you like to draw attention to your toys that you are proud of. We also saw your rude abbreviation telling someone to shut up in the past which seemed to have gotten you moderated. As I said before, the noise issue was part and parcel of why we have a law that you don't like so we are not in the minority. Accept this or expect other laws that curb your "freedoms".

Yup, I will not lie, I like what I own loud. Until it can get enforced, I'll keep my toys loud. No, that does not mean I'm going to operate arrogantly in the way I do it. Unlike you, I'd appreciate if every boat on the lake had thru-hull exhaust

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by sunset on the dock

I assume from above a previous posts that you are an officer in SBONH? Why not broaden SBONH's mission statement...how about SCBONH...Safe Courteous Boaters of NH...I seriously feel this would go a long way toward enhancing the people's perception of a group that many see as promoting the GFBL interests.

And speaking of officers and enhancing SBONH's reputation, sending private messages like the one my wife found so disturbing a while back will not achieve this goal. As an officer of SBONH one wants to think of character and integrity but sending that kind of nasty PM instead reflects a culture of irresponsible thuggery and immaturity that some tend to equate with the GFBL crowd. SBONH or SCBONH cannot afford to promote this image.

SOTD,

If you would like SBONH to broaden its horizons and change its mission statement, I suggest you join the organization and work towards doing so. In the meantime, you will find that if all boaters on NH lakes and seas followed the existing rules, then we would have few problems with courtesy.

Regarding PMs and the "nasty" PM that your wife took offense to: I sent it to you, not your wife. As I said before, when someone posts something that I felt to be inflammatory (like your thread that I sent the PM about), I chose to take it off the board and use the Private Message system to tell you how I felt without stirring the pot on Don's forum. You have already posted my PM to you in a previous thread, it was far from nasty.

Anyone that knows me will vouch for my character and integrity.

I have gone on the record on numerous occasions explaining that I do not own a performance boat. Some may question why I feel the way I do and write the things I do so with all due respect to Pastor Martin Niemöller:

"THEY CAME FIRST for the Performance Boaters
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Performance Boater.

THEN THEY CAME for the louder (but legal) boaters,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a louder (but legal) boater.

THEN THEY CAME for the Big Cruiser boaters,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Big Cruiser Boater.

THEN THEY CAME for me (the Bowrider Boater)
and by that time no one was left to speak up."

[Kracken]

Before we have another interesting thread that is shut down and archived, let’s try to put the focus where it belongs.

Most people would agree it is a minority on the lake that is causing the problems.

1. Operation of a non-conforming vessel.
2. Operating while impaired.
3. Reckless operation
4. Failure to operate under NH Dept of Safety regulations.

There has been a lot of bitterness on both sides. TLTCBM proponents who feel their enjoyment of the lake has been diminished and they are being punished because of a few idiots and they blame the supporters.

Then there are the TLTCBM supporters who feel there rights have been slowly eroded and their enjoyment of the lake has been diminished because they don’t feel safe on the lake and they blame the proponents.

The one thing both sides are missing is putting the blame on the actual culprit; the people who break the laws. A person in a “GFBL” is just as susceptible to an impaired operator, reckless operation or loud exhaust as a person on a pontoon boat. I saw (heard) an 18 foot Four Winns this weekend with straight pipes. I would guess this boat had a 3.0 in it (hardly a performance boat).

I would suggest most, if not all of the members that frequent this forum really do have a vested interest in the future of the lake and are not the “Cowboys” that are breaking the laws. Just because somebody owns a high performance boat does not mean they are pro: BOI, Illegal exhaust or operating to endanger. Also, just because an individual supports TLTCBM, it does not mean they want the lake to be like “On Golden Pond” or that they are a Prius driver.

Instead of blaming “the other side” wouldn’t it be better to work together to find a solution? Sunset on the Dock has extended a hand many times, yet it seems every time he is ridiculed for his stance. That is not going to solve anything.

Everybody experiences the lake in there own way, but the common thread we all share is the need to have the lake to be a safe place for our friends and family.

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by Shreddy

Yup, I will not lie, I like what I own loud. Until it can get enforced, I'll keep my toys loud. No, that does not mean I'm going to operate arrogantly in the way I do it. Unlike you, I'd appreciate if every boat on the lake had thru-hull exhaust

With all due respect... have you ever given any thought to anyone other than yourself in regards to your love of loud toys? You passion for loudness is going to contribute to the demise of all those recreational activities you now enjoy and impact those who choose to be, shall we say much more considerate of others in the interest of being able to maintain the ability of enjoying various motor sports. What you don't realize is that your actions and others who insist on running loud may not result in stricter regulation, it can and often does lead to something far more sinister. People with enough land, money and influence to just plain say fine if you cannot operate a vehicle responsibly then guess what you can't operate it anymore in my back yard. If you can't enjoy a boat, sled, bike or whatever that doesn't disturb everything in a 5 mile or more radius there is something fundamentally wrong with you and know what maybe you shouldn't own one and one day you won't if this kind of thing keeps up. What you think that will never happen? It can, it has, and it will. You are creating a perception, that perception is what will be used as a catalyst to not just regulate but BAN their use. Remember jet skis? How many bodies of water are they banned on and WHY?

As an avid and very active snowmobiler I can tell you that reckless operation and loud pipes is a HUGE problem and has lead to numerous trail closures. Of course since 90% of the trail system is on private land, all it takes is the land owner to say they've had enough and that's it, trail is closed and no it's not your 'right' to be able to ride on someone's property. It's a privilege that is easily revoked, too bad so sad. On the lake it's a little different in that it'll take time, but clearly people are getting fed up with it and doing something about it. So I would urge anyone who thinks it's cool to be obnoxious to knock it off or everyone will suffer. I swear the really bad ones are just a bunch of ignorant, juveniles with small man syndrome and all it takes is one. Least we forget that Lake Winnipesaukee's shore front is primarily owned by some very very wealthy and in some cases politically well connected people. If they all decide they've had enough the state will act.

Case in point, was out on Saturday, what a beautiful day BTW. Just out like so many others enjoying the day, sun, warm water etc... Never fails one jack*ss goes by where we were anchored with a boat so damned loud we had to stop and wait to continue a conversation, and this boat was a good 3/4 of a mile away. I shook my head as it went by and even after it was out of sight you could still hear that POS for several more minutes. Now I ask you , first is that really necessary? Secondly does it make you feel good that you have successfully disturbed half the freaking lake all in the interest of satisfying the need to be loud?

Oh and that Harley crowd, comical at best. What a loud obnoxious bike and some cheesy leather is supposed to make you look like a tough guy or something? I'm rolling on the floor laughing my *** off at that one. Please you all look like a member of the village people. Grow up!

Unlike you I appreciate guys like OCDACTIVE and others who have a love for the go fast stuff but are considerate and reasonable in how they operate. I've said it more than once on here, while I am not a big fan of the performance boats, my perception has changed radically when seeing how hard these guys are going out of their way to be good stewards. Maybe you should try the same.

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

As an avid and very active snowmobiler I can tell you that reckless operation and loud pipes is a HUGE problem and has lead to numerous trail closures. Of course since 90% of the trail system is on private land, all it takes is the land owner to say they've had enough and that's it, trail is closed and no it's not your 'right' to be able to ride on someone's property. It's a privilege that is easily revoked, too bad so sad. On the lake it's a little different in that it'll take time, but clearly people are getting fed up with it and doing something about it. So I would urge anyone who thinks it's cool to be obnoxious to knock it off or everyone will suffer. I swear the really bad ones are just a bunch of ignorant, juveniles with small man syndrome and all it takes is one. Least we forget that Lake Winnipesaukee's shore front is primarily owned by some very very wealthy and in some cases politically well connected people. If they all decide they've had enough the state will act.

Very well said Maxum.
Regarding the bolded above, just one thing to clarify. When a trail is closed, the privilege is revoked for ALL snowmobilers, not just the offender(s). As is the case in many parts of life, it is the few that spoil things for the rest of us. Sounds familiar, no?

[VitaBene]

As a volunteer and director for the Moultonborough Snowmobile Club, I can assure you that Maxum and Chip are right on as far as noisy snow machines are concerned. Most of our trails cross private land owner's property, some within close proximity of their homes. In many cases, they are fellow snowmobilers, but in some cases they are not. As a club, each year we need to reach out to new landowners for permission to use their property. It is much easier to get this permission if we are all being good stewards of the trails that we use (by keeping noise down, staying on trail, not littering, using proper restroom facilities, etc).

We will never be a noiseless society, but we all have to co-exist as best as possible. Self-policing is much better than having a new law or RSA foisted upon us.

To the powerboaters with open exhaust, the snowmobiler with no mufflers and the Harley Davidson rider with straight pipes, think about your neighbors or the landowner whose property you are about to traverse. Ask yourself if the noise is excessive, and if so, please remedy the situation. Because if you don't there are plenty of people standing in the wings ready to take it to Concord.

[Shreddy]

I forgot how serious this board can be sometimes. I added the laughing face to emphasize the fact that I was stirring the pot. Please excuse me. Noise is an ever growing issue, but you can only complain about it so much. As I originally said, the best form of fighting loud vehicles and toys is to self police and talk to friends. If you feel strongly otherwise, get involved.

For the record, I got that snowmobile ticket three years ago. No, I don't ride with an aftermarket exhaust anymore on sleds. The issue in that area is exactly how everyone has stated thus far. My bike and jet ski does have aftermarket exhausts, however, you'd never know with the jet ski and both are setup for performance. Like I said, aftermarket exhausts can be controlled to an acceptable point (not redlining all the time). For the record, I don't own a harley, and I don't feel my exhaust is near the sound level of some of those!

Going back to the word of mouth policing, I would assume the majority of people that read these boards understand the nature of the issues surrounding noise. However, what everyone needs to realize is that probably less that 5% of active participants in these sports read these forums. Of that, I'd assume less that 1% is in the population that are worthy of complaining about. I'm talking all forums regarding these issues, not just winnipesaukee.com (snowmobiling, jet sking, etc.). Cheers to a never ending discussion about noise!

[Mink Islander]

Originally Posted by Shreddy

Yup, I will not lie, I like what I own loud. Until it can get enforced, I'll keep my toys loud. No, that does not mean I'm going to operate arrogantly in the way I do it. Unlike you, I'd appreciate if every boat on the lake had thru-hull exhaust

And the GF crowd ought to be condemning you since you ARE the minority that leads to stiffer laws and restrictions. Most of us teach respect for our laws -- whether you agree with them or not. You apparently missed that class.

[VtSteve]

there's always an opening in the peanut gallery

Sometimes I like the loud boats, mostly not. Definitely depends on the distance and time of day. But most of the time it's not worth sweating. Now if I had to live near/on a NWZ, that would be different. A steady stream of boats coming off/on plane, with the requisite noise and wakes? That would not make me happy.

SOTD, I'm almost in agreement with some of your anti-noise comments. It sucks to be having a conversation, and not being able to hear anything until a boat goes by. Oh well, I do live on the lakefront. At night? Yes it's even louder as nothing is there to run noise interference. But not unbearable, nor does it last long enough to be of much concern.

SOTD, take the suggestion to join/meet with the SBONH people. You'd probably be a welcome addition to the group, and many of your thoughts are shared. Good things come with communication and cooperation. I can definitely agree with some of the warnings you post about activities of the few limiting the many. I suggested (warned) people of that awhile back.

Meet up with Scott and the others some day, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. You may also find that you have some new friends that not only share some of your concerns, but can help out as well. It's been a pretty good summer thus far, and making friends only adds to the enjoyment.

[Bear Islander]

If you hate noise a NWZ will not help. A NWZ keeps the offender around longer and they are loudest when speeding up. However noise rarely bothers me and I am in a noisy location. If I wanted quiet I would not have bought on a busy point.

Maxum is absolutely correct. A few idiots always screw things up for the majority. When the average person decides enough is enough then things start getting shut down.

I think this extreme need to be noisy is part of Small Man Syndrome. Guys who think they do not get enough respect or recognition in life, and are looking for payback with this kind of exhibitionism.

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by VitaBene

As a volunteer and director for the Moultonborough Snowmobile Club, I can assure you that Maxum and Chip are right on as far as noisy snow machines are concerned. Most of our trails cross private land owner's property, some within close proximity of their homes. In many cases, they are fellow snowmobilers, but in some cases they are not. As a club, each year we need to reach out to new landowners for permission to use their property. It is much easier to get this permission if we are all being good stewards of the trails that we use (by keeping noise down, staying on trail, not littering, using proper restroom facilities, etc).

We will never be a noiseless society, but we all have to co-exist as best as possible. Self-policing is much better than having a new law or RSA foisted upon us.

I'd like to personally thank you for both volunteering and being a director of the MSC, many who enjoy riding have no idea the kind of effort and dedication it takes by a few for the benefit of many usually with little or no compensation. Especially when it comes to dealing/negotiating with land owners to provide the extensive trail system throughout the state.

You are absolutely right, we will never be a noiseless society, but a little self restraint and courtesy can go a long way to maintaining the often times delicate coexistence between those that have a passion for motor sports of any kind, and those who do not. Like I said in my last posting perception is everything.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

I'd like to personally thank you for both volunteering and being a director of the MSC, many who enjoy riding have no idea the kind of effort and dedication it takes by a few for the benefit of many usually with little or no compensation. Especially when it comes to dealing/negotiating with land owners to provide the extensive trail system throughout the state.

You are absolutely right, we will never be a noiseless society, but a little self restraint and courtesy can go a long way to maintaining the often times delicate coexistence between those that have a passion for motor sports of any kind, and those who do not. Like I said in my last posting perception is everything.

Thanks Maxum, it can be a lot of work but it is usually worth it! Once September rolls around I will be hitting people up for trail days here and there.

[Sman]

I agree with BI regarding his point on a NWZ keeps noise around longer and when the boat takes off it is at its noisiest, I am near one too.

The only way that I can see a NWZ reducing noise is to discourage people from going through a particular area because they don't want to slow down to get where they are going. To me that only works if there is an alternative way to get where they are going. So if a NWZ discourages traffic then maybe it would address the issue at that location and create a problem at another.

If you are anti-noise and do get the NWZ put in, instead of complaining about boat noise you might be complaining about no one slowing down like they are supposed to in the NWZ, because lots don't. And you might have the noise of the inevitable guy a few docks down that takes it upon himself to yell "Hey no wake", if you are real lucky he will blow an airhorn and yell, everytime someone breaks the rule, thats fun. Different noises but not real pleasant either. You trade one noise for another or maybe now you have both or all three!

[Lucky1]

I got to wondering why I would want a No Wake Zone.

For one thing we would like to be able to take our kayaks out and not have to hug the shore because all of the motor boats are racing by in huge numbers and making it impossible to go across a small strip of lake to see the eagle's nest on a nearby island.

I know that weekends are the busiest times but isn't that when most of us have guests? There is a 150 foot right of way that is supposed to be in effect for rowboats, canoes etc so why do so many members here say how dangerous it is to be out in many areas in a kayak etc? Power boating is legal but so is kayaking! We own a lake home and pay our taxes. Why do so many power boaters not think that others want to enjoy being on the water?

One almost reads here that many think canoes, sailboats, kayakers and swimmers are to just stay out of the way of power boats? When did all of this happen as that is not the law. Power boaters are to give non power boaters 150 feet of right of way. I just don't want anyone to lose his or her life and have the power boater end up in jail. What will that accomplish? We do all need to be thoughtful of ALL others on the lake who are enjoying this wonderful gift that we all have.

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by Lucky1

For one thing we would like to be able to take our kayaks out and not have to hug the shore because all of the motor boats are racing by in huge numbers and making it impossible to go across a small strip of lake to see the eagle's nest on a nearby island.

Lucky1,

Where on the lake are you... I am both a power boater and a Kayaker.... I have had great experience on both and never once have felt like I was concerned in my kayak. I would like the opportunity to see where you are trying to paddle and feel that the motor boat action cause to much commotion on a weekend.

I believe most kayakers end up feeling uncomfortable because they don't have a perception of whether they are identifiable in the water or not. I think most paddlers would be surprised at just how much they stick out, and how noticeable they are....

Send me a PM if you would like to talk about this more ....

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by Lucky1

I got to wondering why I would want a No Wake Zone.

For one thing we would like to be able to take our kayaks out and not have to hug the shore because all of the motor boats are racing by in huge numbers and making it impossible to go across a small strip of lake to see the eagle's nest on a nearby island.

I know that weekends are the busiest times but isn't that when most of us have guests? There is a 150 foot right of way that is supposed to be in effect for rowboats, canoes etc so why do so many members here say how dangerous it is to be out in many areas in a kayak etc? Power boating is legal but so is kayaking! We own a lake home and pay our taxes. Why do so many power boaters not think that others want to enjoy being on the water?

One almost reads here that many think canoes, sailboats, kayakers and swimmers are to just stay out of the way of power boats? When did all of this happen as that is not the law. Power boaters are to give non power boaters 150 feet of right of way. I just don't want anyone to lose his or her life and have the power boater end up in jail. What will that accomplish? We do all need to be thoughtful of ALL others on the lake who are enjoying this wonderful gift that we all have.

Lucky, In all of the cases you note the powerboat is required to slow to headway within 150' of you. It is really not a right of way, if they are at headway speed they can be 1' from you. 150' is not a lot of room for the canoe or kayak when dealing with wake, you are still going to get some. I canoe and my kids sail, there are days when we can't do it all over the lake as we would be putting ourselves at risk.

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by VitaBene

Lucky, In all of the cases you note the powerboat is required to slow to headway within 150' of you. It is really not a right of way, if they are at headway speed they can be 1' from you. 150' is not a lot of room for the canoe or kayak when dealing with wake, you are still going to get some. I canoe and my kids sail, there are days when we can't do it all over the lake as we would be putting ourselves at risk.

Agreed and good point here... I also paddleboat, kayak etc. On busy days I stay out of the boating lanes. Someone asked earlier what a boating lane is. Basically in the Broads there aren't boating lanes but when you get into the Narrows up in Moultonboro and the islands like Mark and Timber and such there are only certain areas or lanes that powerboat traffic can go. I would never in my right mind travel in the middle of these on a kayak during busy weekends. Although I have every right to be there as many stated before many Capt. boneheads don't realize this. It would be putting yourself at risk no matter what law they passed. Even if the whole lake was a NWZ it doesn't mean someone who is not familar with the laws can cause an issue. (before the legal experts jump all over me, Yes ignorance to the laws is no excuse and why education is needed but I am not going to risk going out there assuming everyone knows what I know)

So during the busy weekends, when I go out on a paddle boat or kayak I avoid these areas. I also think by me going out into a channel and making everyone slow down for me is not what a courteous boater should do whether under power or not.

Anyway I personally wouldn't want to go there in the first place, the fun of being in a non-power boat is being able to get into coves and inlets that you can't see in a powerboat.

[sunset on the dock]

Originally Posted by VtSteve

there's always an opening in the peanut gallery

Sometimes I like the loud boats, mostly not. Definitely depends on the distance and time of day. But most of the time it's not worth sweating. Now if I had to live near/on a NWZ, that would be different. A steady stream of boats coming off/on plane, with the requisite noise and wakes? That would not make me happy.

SOTD, I'm almost in agreement with some of your anti-noise comments. It sucks to be having a conversation, and not being able to hear anything until a boat goes by. Oh well, I do live on the lakefront. At night? Yes it's even louder as nothing is there to run noise interference. But not unbearable, nor does it last long enough to be of much concern.

SOTD, take the suggestion to join/meet with the SBONH people. You'd probably be a welcome addition to the group, and many of your thoughts are shared. Good things come with communication and cooperation. I can definitely agree with some of the warnings you post about activities of the few limiting the many. I suggested (warned) people of that awhile back.

Meet up with Scott and the others some day, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. You may also find that you have some new friends that not only share some of your concerns, but can help out as well. It's been a pretty good summer thus far, and making friends only adds to the enjoyment.

Should I bring my dog for protection. Her name is Winnie and she's a brown Fabrador retriever. She's a pretty good guard dog but is afraid of loud noises.

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by sunset on the dock

Should I bring my dog for protection. Her name is Winnie and she's a brown Fabrador retriever. She's a pretty good guard dog but is afraid of loud noises.

fabrodor retriver?? I thought my sister's Labradoodle was something!

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

So during the busy weekends, when I go out on a paddle boat or kayak I avoid these areas. I also think by me going out into a channel and making everyone slow down for me is not what a courteous boater should do whether under power or not.

Anyway I personally wouldn't want to go there in the first place, the fun of being in a non-power boat is being able to get into coves and inlets that you can't see in a powerboat.

I totally agree and do the same.

[Lucky1]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

Agreed and good point here... I also paddleboat, kayak etc. On busy days I stay out of the boating lanes. Someone asked earlier what a boating lane is. Basically in the Broads there aren't boating lanes but when you get into the Narrows up in Moultonboro and the islands like Mark and Timber and such there are only certain areas or lanes that powerboat traffic can go. I would never in my right mind travel in the middle of these on a kayak during busy weekends. Although I have every right to be there as many stated before many Capt. boneheads don't realize this. It would be putting yourself at risk no matter what law they passed. Even if the whole lake was a NWZ it doesn't mean someone who is not familar with the laws can cause an issue. (before the legal experts jump all over me, Yes ignorance to the laws is no excuse and why education is needed but I am not going to risk going out there assuming everyone knows what I know)

So during the busy weekends, when I go out on a paddle boat or kayak I avoid these areas. I also think by me going out into a channel and making everyone slow down for me is not what a courteous boater should do whether under power or not.

Anyway I personally wouldn't want to go there in the first place, the fun of being in a non-power boat is being able to get into coves and inlets that you can't see in a powerboat.

Good to hear that the fun of being in a non-power boat for you is being able to get into coves and inlets that you can't see in a powerboat.
Possibly you also understand that for others it might be going across to an island to see an eagle's nest? Somehow if anyone wants to do anything that in any way causes a power boat owner to have to change their instant desires it is not what a courteous boater should do, but all day long power boaters can cause non-power boaters to not be able to explore (except in coves and inlets) and that is courteous? This is a huge problem and thus the need for NWZ's.
Look at your symbol.......IT IS A POWER BOAT. That is where you are coming from.

[Mee-n-Mac]

Originally Posted by Lucky1

Good to hear that the fun of being in a non-power boat for you is being able to get into coves and inlets that you can't see in a powerboat.
Possibly you also understand that for others it might be going across to an island to see an eagle's nest? Somehow if anyone wants to do anything that in any way causes a power boat owner to have to change their instant desires it is not what a courteous boater should do, but all day long power boaters can cause non-power boaters to not be able to explore (except in coves and inlets) and that is courteous? This is a huge problem and thus the need for NWZ's.
Look at your symbol.......IT IS A POWER BOAT. That is where you are coming from.

Thanks for using the broad brush. Where on the lake are power boaters prohibiting you from kayaking all day long ? And there's never a chance to kayak between the never-ending stream of apparently non-yeilding power boaters ? I can understand some apprehension because Capt B does ride the high seas but really ...

[ApS]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

"... I also paddleboat, kayak etc. On busy days I stay out of the boating lanes. Someone asked earlier what a boating lane is..."

Paddleboat?

Sure, they're around, but is this what you meant by the "boat" you'd stay out of the "boating lanes" with?



Does it have blue and white "OCD" graphics?

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by Lucky1

Good to hear that the fun of being in a non-power boat for you is being able to get into coves and inlets that you can't see in a powerboat.
Possibly you also understand that for others it might be going across to an island to see an eagle's nest? Somehow if anyone wants to do anything that in any way causes a power boat owner to have to change their instant desires it is not what a courteous boater should do, but all day long power boaters can cause non-power boaters to not be able to explore (except in coves and inlets) and that is courteous? This is a huge problem and thus the need for NWZ's.
Look at your symbol.......IT IS A POWER BOAT. That is where you are coming from.

Really? Its a powerboat.. I never would have known.. Thanks for pointing it out. I will stop trying to push it with my oar .... (being sarcastic here)

Lucky, you are reading too much into it. 2 items.
1. I am discussing busy weekends. No matter how well your intentions there are many capt. boneheads who may not be as attentive as you. I personally stay out of busy areas. (this goes for capt bonehead kayakers as well) I once saw on 4th of July weekend in the middle of the broads a kayaker in a BLUE kayak wearing a BLUE life jacket... Seriously???

2. It is not courteous of a kayaker to go right in the middle of a boating channel. You mention you are also a powerboater, but just in case you don't venture out all over the lake I will expound. Well these "channels" can and many times are distinguished by "channel markers". A great example is if you are heading from tuftonboro / moultonboro heading / from the hole in the wall or barbers pole, towards trexlers bridge (Long Island Bridge). On the left side are 6 channel markers where only powerboats can go. It is probably only 325 feet wide. However to the right of the channel is probably a minimum of 1000 feet of water that kayakers and non-power boats can go. There are no eagles nests or any plausable reason why a kayaker would have to or want to cut across this channel. On a busy weekend it would slow traffic (not just one boat inconvenienced) but it actually can cause a traffic jam that potentially is a safety issue because most do not expect it there.

So using my example I would ask why would a kayaker who is courteous to fellow lake goers feel the need to park out right in the middle of the channel? I can't figure it out either but 2 weeks ago there he was clueless to everyone around him or was it he was purposely doing it..?

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by Lucky1

Good to hear that the fun of being in a non-power boat for you is being able to get into coves and inlets that you can't see in a powerboat.
Possibly you also understand that for others it might be going across to an island to see an eagle's nest? Somehow if anyone wants to do anything that in any way causes a power boat owner to have to change their instant desires it is not what a courteous boater should do, but all day long power boaters can cause non-power boaters to not be able to explore (except in coves and inlets) and that is courteous? This is a huge problem and thus the need for NWZ's.
Look at your symbol.......IT IS A POWER BOAT. That is where you are coming from.

Based on your desire to want to paddle to an island with an eagle's nest I am surmising that you are in Moultonborough Bay or the channel leading to it near Suissevale. You have every right to do so and every powerboat that comes within 150' of you is required to be at headway speed. You may explore wherever you choose, but realize you will receive wake from passing boats.

[Kracken]

For the most part, Power Boaters and Sailboat Operators in New Hampshire know the rules. They have all been required to pass a boating exam and to be very honest there is more “self policing” here than in any other state I have ever been to. With that being said there are plenty of power boaters that don’t have the certificate, don’t have a clue what the rules are or simply don’t care. Don’t think for a moment that power boaters are indifferent to these people because they are “one of us”.

As for rights…of course everybody has a right to use the lake (legally), but having a vessel, any vessel does not give the owner an all access pass to the lake. Common sense has to kick in at some point.

We need to share the lake, and we need to do it responsibly. When you’re out on the lake, ask yourself these two questions.

Am I endangering myself and others?

Are my actions interfering with other people’s enjoyment?

If the answer is yes to either of these questions, you are doing it wrong.

[Mee-n-Mac]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

Really? Its a powerboat.. I never would have known.. Thanks for pointing it out. I will stop trying to push it with my oar .... (being sarcastic here)

Lucky, you are reading too much into it...

Let me make some analogies. When driving we generally want people to pass on the left. So the rule is keep right except to pass. So there are times when I come up on someone in the left hand lane on RT93 who's just driving there, not passing a soul. And I don't mean in heavy traffic. That person is being rude. I have no problem if that person is actually passing another car (or about to, or have just done it) no matter how slower than me he may be going. Use the passing lane reasonably and then get right. That's being courteous.

People sometimes have to stop on the road (now I'm not talking RT93). OK, sometimes that happens. But if you're stopping in the road to read a map when you could have pulled (even partly) off the road, so others could get by ... well that's rude.

Context is important.