WOW Trail 1st Phase Dedication Set

[trfour]

Citizen Article; http://citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll/art...885/-1/CITIZEN



Terry
________________________

[fatlazyless]

That article says the first completed section is 10' wide X 1.1 miles long. Believe a fire truck is either 8 or 8 1/2 ' wide so that would be a good challenge trying to drive that in a fire truck. After Section 1, Section 2 is probably next, and then after that comes Section 3.......yeah, that seems like it's the way to go.

South Down Shore.....here it comes....oh....it will be coming around the mountain when it comes....it will be coming around the mountain when it comes...everyone will be sing'n & danc'n....and it will be coming around that South Down Shore mountain when it comes.....all together now...yee-haw! ...
.....

Today's April 8 LaDaSun has an article on the recently built 1.1 mile section in Laconia and relates a conversation between a WOW Trail supporter and Congresswoman Carol Shea-Porter. Apparently, the 5' high chain link fence that is required by the State of NH for safety reasons is not wanted by either the WOW Trail supporters or the South Down Shore residents; neither group wants it or feels it is needed, and are hoping the congresswoman can help to remedy this very sticky situation.

Here's my solution; build a bow-wow style, invisible fence and have all WOW Trail users wear invisible fence, doggie collars when traveling the WOW Trail. Get too close to that railroad track and you catch a good strong electric zap into yor neck.....arf....arf......eeeooooooowie.....ouch... ...ouch!

No more ugly fence.....problemo solved!

[flyguy]

I don't think the major problems will only be trash, or swimming, or trespassing, or even crime. How 'bout having a half dozen loud motorcycles go through your back yard?

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by flyguy

I don't think the major problems will only be trash, or swimming, or trespassing, or even crime. How 'bout having a half dozen loud motorcycles go through your back yard?

The Laconia Police seem to be very vigilant in enforcing the driving speed limits and driving laws such as the recently lowered 30-mph zone on Rt 3 just south of Weirs Beach out front of the Naswa. They have no problem stopping driving violators. As you may not know, the Laconia P.D. has officers on bicycles who patrol the WOW Trail and driving a motorcycle on a bicycle path is some type of a violation. For driving a motorcycle onto a 'no motorized vehicle' trail in the White Mt National Forest, one gets a $250 fine, first offense, according to the small print on the signs.

Here's something to ponder. There's supposedly a federal law, passed in 2002, that says that electric battery powered bicycles up to 750 watts, and 20 mph, are legally considered bicycles. And, for about $398, the Plymouth Wal-Mart sells both a pink & black-woman's, and a red & black-men's, e-zip electric bicycle. It's a steel frame, mountain bike style, hybrid, with the rider seated in an upright position and should attract older, and less athletically inclined peddlers. They look exactly like a bicycle and one has to look pretty close to notice the electric motor, and battery. So, what's the official, un-official status for riding electric bicycles like this on the WOW Trail? Anybody know?

[Rattlesnake Gal]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Here's something to ponder. There's supposedly a federal law, passed in 2002, that says that electric battery powered bicycles up to 750 watts, and 20 mph, are legally considered bicycles. It's a steel frame, mountain bike style, hybrid, with the rider seated in an upright position and should attract older, and less athletically inclined peddlers. They look exactly like a bicycle and one has to look pretty close to notice the electric motor, and battery. So, what's the official, un-official status for riding electric bicycles like this on the WOW Trail? Anybody know?

I'm guessing it's a no go, but you can e-mail them here. Please let us know what they say.

The WOW Trail will be a 4-season trail opened to non-motorized uses such as walking, running/jogging, bicycle riding and cross country skiing.

[DJS-Laconia]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Here's something to ponder. There's supposedly a federal law, passed in 2002, that says that electric battery powered bicycles up to 750 watts, and 20 mph, are legally considered bicycles. And, for about $398, the Plymouth Wal-Mart sells both a pink & black-woman's, and a red & black-men's, e-zip electric bicycle. It's a steel frame, mountain bike style, hybrid, with the rider seated in an upright position and should attract older, and less athletically inclined peddlers. They look exactly like a bicycle and one has to look pretty close to notice the electric motor, and battery. So, what's the official, un-official status for riding electric bicycles like this on the WOW Trail? Anybody know?

fatlazyless.... Honestly. How many times do you see yourself using this bike path? You are already pondering electric bikes to shuttle your fatlazyless a** back and forth to Lobster Pound. You just like to hear yourself!!! Are you an Ex committee member of someone thrown off of a board. You love to stir the pot.
The state doesn't benefit from these paths. The town doesn't benefit from the path. It is a headache waiting to happen. There is already graffiti on some of the walls they installed and the fences are already broken in some spots.

Waste of Money...

[trfour]

For or Against, it's happen'in. http://citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll/art...651/-1/CITIZEN



Terry
__________________________

[fatlazyless]

It's known as the Federal Electric Bicycle Law - HR 727, and it's an amendment to the U.S. Consumer Protection Act and here's a link http://www.x-tremescooters.com/techd...regulation.pdf If you google 'Federal Electric Bicycle Law - HR 727' and go to Wikipedia it has a lot of info. It was passed in 2002, from what I read, and for the law to apply, the bicycle must have fully operational peddles, which means peddles that can be peddled, which would definatley seem to exclude electric scooters, because the scooters do not have any peddles. Okey-dokey!

How will it make any difference to the WOW Trail? Could be it will encourage some older peddlers to go bicycling as an electric bike can be either peddled or motored or both, depending on the hills and terrain. Could be that electric bikes are somewhat similar to training wheels for young kids just learning to peddle, except it's more for older folks or slightly physically challenged riders. An electric bike can be thought to be a normal bicycle that has a little helper motor just in case the hill is too steep, or the ride is too long. It's not a high powered, super-duper fast bicycle.....not at all.....more like your 99-year old great granny & great grandpa's gentle ride.

[trfour]

Getting our youth involved in a more healthful lifestyle that includes exercise. It's a Win Win for Winni!
Read about it; http://citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll/art...934/-1/CITIZEN

There will be entertainment and healthy refreshments as well as informational displays presented by several groups, including the WOW Trail, Healthy and Active Living-NH, New Beginnings and the federal Women, Infants and Children program

Then get off the couch and help, instead of bellyaching about it!



Terry
_____________________________

[trfour]

From the Citizen; http://citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll/art...927/-1/CITIZEN



Terry
_____________________________

[trfour]

From the Citizen, July 27 2010.

http://citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll/art...917/-1/CITIZEN



Terry
___________________________________

[fatlazyless]

Here's looking forward to seeing Laconia City Councillor Armand Bolduc out peddling his bicycle on the WOW Trail. Three cheers for Armand....he's finally done seen that glowing, sun-shiney light down at the end of the Laconia WOW trail....and he must like what he sees because he just changed his opinion and VOTED YES to Laconia's latest WOW TRAIL voting decision.

Thankyou ARMAND!

[SAMIAM]

We walked the WOW trail recently. It was a beautiful day in the low 80's and we only passed 8 or ten people.....mostly walking, saw two people on bikes. We noticed that all of the people on the Lakeport side of the trail have lost access to the lake because of the fence.
I'd be in favor of the trail if it were not for the fence. Dosen't seem right to deny lake access to all of the people in Lakeport and Southdown residents who bought their retirement home without knowing that the trail and fence were coming.
Seems like a lot of money for the few people who will be biking the trail.

[MAXUM]

You've got to be kidding me, an annual "estimated" cost of $3500 bucks to maintain a 7000' long trail? Sorry that is a totally insane figure, no doubt representing 1/2 the actual cost to the tax payers. Leave it to the government to waste money on a frivioulous trail.

[no-engine]

NOW All, if a buyer's legal advisor (attorney researching title &...) failed to learn that there exists a right of way (if I have the correct phrase) along the railroad bed and adjacent sewer line, shame on she/he, as they represent the buyer!

I find it hard to believe that the legality of the right of way was not discussed and known, by the buyers. They do not have exclusive rights.

For at least 25 years, I have used the "trail" from about Meredith Rail Road Station to the Weirs at all times of year: bicycling, walking, x-c skiing, snow shoeing, walking dog in winter, and so on. I was never asked or troubled (people said HI) by residences at Lake Shore Road, Neal Shore Road, Grouse Point (I was there before any development began), Needle Eye Roads, Meredith, and Scenic Drive, to Lakeside Ave., Laconia, and even minimal times parking on Elm Street to x-c ski on Laconia Country Club and proceeding along the tracks within SouthDown Shores. I was never approached and told I could not be there. All users had respect for another, even the snow machine people on the Meredith sections, when encountered!
Therefore, I ask, why can't people just live with it? "JUST DO IT!" Nike.

[trfour]

Originally Posted by no-engine

NOW All, if a buyer's legal advisor (attorney researching title &...) failed to learn that there exists a right of way (if I have the correct phrase) along the railroad bed and adjacent sewer line, shame on she/he, as they represent the buyer!

I find it hard to believe that the legality of the right of way was not discussed and known, by the buyers. They do not have exclusive rights.

For at least 25 years, I have used the "trail" from about Meredith Rail Road Station to the Weirs at all times of year: bicycling, walking, x-c skiing, snow shoeing, walking dog in winter, and so on. I was never asked or troubled (people said HI) by residences at Lake Shore Road, Neal Shore Road, Grouse Point (I was there before any development began), Needle Eye Roads, Meredith, and Scenic Drive, to Lakeside Ave., Laconia, and even minimal times parking on Elm Street to x-c ski on Laconia Country Club and proceeding along the tracks within SouthDown Shores. I was never approached and told I could not be there. All users had respect for another, even the snow machine people on the Meredith sections, when encountered!
Therefore, I ask, why can't people just live with it? "JUST DO IT!" Nike.

Absolutely, no-engine!!

Get some great exercise along the way. This is one of the best ventures that Laconia and the surrounding towns could ever get involved with.

Some of us are left, what survived the early days of ' Flash Gordon ', when Radio an TV would glue us to our couches!

We are more responsible today, ' I would hope ', to take the weight off from the couch, and put it up write back onto our feet to give us in sort of a get'along that was more intended for us, in the first place!

Short story, I think that the WOW TRAIL is going in the right direction..

Keeps one, young... And it will help you too!
______________________________________________

[trfour]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

You've got to be kidding me, an annual "estimated" cost of $3500 bucks to maintain a 7000' long trail? Sorry that is a totally insane figure, no doubt representing 1/2 the actual cost to the tax payers. Leave it to the government to waste money on a frivioulous trail.

It ain't over yet, stay tuned! However, it's a good thing, as you may find out... RELAX brother!

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by no-engine

NOW All, if a buyer's legal advisor (attorney researching title &...) failed to learn that there exists a right of way (if I have the correct phrase) along the railroad bed and adjacent sewer line, shame on she/he, as they represent the buyer!

I find it hard to believe that the legality of the right of way was not discussed and known, by the buyers. They do not have exclusive rights.

For at least 25 years, I have used the "trail" from about Meredith Rail Road Station to the Weirs at all times of year: bicycling, walking, x-c skiing, snow shoeing, walking dog in winter, and so on. I was never asked or troubled (people said HI) by residences at Lake Shore Road, Neal Shore Road, Grouse Point (I was there before any development began), Needle Eye Roads, Meredith, and Scenic Drive, to Lakeside Ave., Laconia, and even minimal times parking on Elm Street to x-c ski on Laconia Country Club and proceeding along the tracks within SouthDown Shores. I was never approached and told I could not be there. All users had respect for another, even the snow machine people on the Meredith sections, when encountered!
Therefore, I ask, why can't people just live with it? "JUST DO IT!" Nike.

It's the ugly fence that cuts off the lakeshore and WILL fall into total disrepair in a couple of years that most people are opposed to.

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by no-engine

For at least 25 years, I have used the "trail" from about Meredith Rail Road Station to the Weirs at all times of year:

Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like this Meredith to Laconia section of railroad & existing gravel access road that parallels the single track would have a seasonal view out to the lake. With the trees all leafy, the views would be very limited. With the winter view, it would be a good wide-open view out to the lake.

Also, the Meredith Bay vacation home development, formerly Akwa Soliel has waterfront condos for sale right on the water and existing railroad track just north of the Weirs. Who knows, it's up to the individual Meredith Bay condo owner, as to whether they are happy, or not happy, with a 10' wide, asphalt WOW Trail crossiing directly in front of their as yet to be constructed $600,000 proposed condo townhouses. It is located in the City of Laconia.

The WOW Trail seems to have picked up a lot of support in the last year including the federal government, state government, local city & local towns, local newspaper editorials, local hospital, local banks, and local residents. Everyone is lining up behind it.....maybe the U.S. Marines want to get on-board too and sound up the Marine Corps Band!

[jkjoshuatree]

Originally Posted by trfour

Absolutely, no-engine!!

Get some great exercise along the way. This is one of the best ventures that Laconia and the surrounding towns could ever get involved with.

Some of us are left, what survived the early days of ' Flash Gordon ', when Radio an TV would glue us to our couches!

We are more responsible today, ' I would hope ', to take the weight off from the couch, and put it up write back onto our feet to give us in sort of a get'along that was more intended for us, in the first place!

Short story, I think that the WOW TRAIL is going in the right direction..

Keeps one, young... And it will help you too!
______________________________________________

Just a quick little statistic for everyone; this is the first time in the HISTORY of mankind that our children have shorter life expectancies than their parents due to the obesity epidemic in our country.

Ten years ago, 1 in 11 kids was overweight. Today that figure is 1 in 3!

I personally think anytime a town/community does something to promote health/fitness it's a good thing.

Getting off my soapbox now.

[Shore Driver]

I ran the WOW as part of a 6+ mile loop recently. Added greatly to the enjoyment of the run and it kept me away from would have been an annoyingly traffic-filled portion of town.

Really looking forward to Phase II as it will include a nice scenic portion alongside Winnisquam towards the Mosquito Bridge.

[joey2665]

You can try to make this into and obesity and exercise issue all you want (I think that is a ridiculous argument) it is just a mascarade. The real issue here is that for anyone that lives along the trail and Rail Road will now have a cyclone fence between themselves and the lake especially if phase three is completed as this is where most of the homes impacted by the trail are located (how estetically pleasing can it be to have a fence obstructing a view of the lake whether public or private property).

Right now phase one is hiden behind mostly commercial building wait until phase to and three when many more passers by will be able to see the fence from the street. I think the trail will actually become a deterant and by they way reduce home values on the lake which will then result in lower assessed values and lower real estate taxes to the city.

Also, I dont think it is right to deny people that have lake access to cut it off in the name of an exercise trail. Many people walk and run beside the tracks and lake the way it exists now there is no need for a change.

In full disclosure I have a house in Long Bay and it will effect my lake access and no one from my broker, attorney or title company informed me that someday this might be a issue as I expect with most people (old and new) that have lake access.

I also beleive that over time the fence will become an eye soar as it rusts and deteriorates because as we all know as goverment funds get tight these types of projects are the first to have funds pulled.

Arent ther more pressing issue related to the lake that fund should be used for than a trail. How about the ever increasing Millfoil issue for one thing?

[fatlazyless]

Here's a thought; there are fences and then again, there are other fences, with some fences allowing a greater degree of "see through" than others. Hopefully, the engineer who designs the five foot high fence will be mindfull that the abutter homeowner wants to keep their waterfront view and can plan for a fence with a lot of transparancy.

Hey, if the U.S. could send a man to the moon in July of 1969, then maybe the WOW Trail can find a mostly transparent fence that is attractive and acceptable to opposing factions on both sides of the fence.

Here's my two cents.....how about an all clear plastic-translucent & almost totally transparent chain link, constructed from recyled, clear, ground-up old shower curtains and water bottles and refabricated into a see-through chain link. Just picture that.....W.O.W. ....what a view!

How about that ski area, snow fencing, that's usually orange.....could be that's available in clear-see-through? Not such a hot idea....ok...how about planting tomato vines to pretty up the fence and just get used to it? It's only five feet high, or four feet high or something....besides by planting tomato vines, the fence will grow on you over time! Besides, having a five foot high chain link fence all covered with tomato vines would increase the privacy from the prying eyes of bicyclers and pedestrians out using the trail. Who knows....maybe after the trail gets all built out, you'll be very happy to have a fence...and you'll wish for an even taller fence with that barbed wire on top?

[jetskier]

Fundamentally, the fence is an issue both from the standpoint of marring the frontage and intefereing with access to the shorefront. There are a number of busy cross points including marinas. To top things off, the fence will preclude some of the current recreational use...in the winter the tracks are part of the snowmobile trail system. That is going to be untenable with fencing. As a snowmobiler, I find that problematic.

So, the suggestion... Decide the use for the property without fences. Either there is a trail or a train. Not both. Without the train, the trail can be built along the current right of way without fencing. I don't think that most folks disapprove of the use, it is the fence that is a huge issue. Even a clear fence is going to be problematic (not to mention, extremely costly).

Alternatively, the trail could go around this portion of the bay. This is going to be extremely expensive to build along the shorefront as it will involve construction of bridges etc...

Jetskier

[fatlazyless]

Hey, how about an invisible fence just like for Barney the Basset Hound! Get too close to the invisible line and you get a good sharp electric jolt in your neck. Trail users would need to poney up twenty bucks or so to pay for their invisible fence-personal people collars.........ZAP!

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by jetskier

Fundamentally, the fence is an issue both from the standpoint of marring the frontage and intefereing with access to the shorefront. There are a number of busy cross points including marinas. To top things off, the fence will preclude some of the current recreational use...in the winter the tracks are part of the snowmobile trail system. That is going to be untenable with fencing. As a snowmobiler, I find that problematic.

So, the suggestion... Decide the use for the property without fences. Either there is a trail or a train. Not both. Without the train, the trail can be built along the current right of way without fencing. I don't think that most folks disapprove of the use, it is the fence that is a huge issue. Even a clear fence is going to be problematic (not to mention, extremely costly).

Alternatively, the trail could go around this portion of the bay. This is going to be extremely expensive to build along the shorefront as it will involve construction of bridges etc...

Jetskier

Jetskier I probably would have agreed with you three month ago but I do not know. I am in Long Bay and I opose anything that brings more traffic into our comminity.

My house was one of the homes burglarized recently and I had losses and damages exceeding 5000.00 and after speaking to the detective they stated that the criminals came in from and left via the rail road tracks.

A public trail that goes through our beautiful community although on the surface sounds great would only invite more ciminal activity especially during the off season.

[fatlazyless]

You never know....Laconia has a number of bicycle officers who patrol on bicycles, and it could be that a WOW Trail would have more honest citizens and police on the look-out, out your way. Thieves like to have an anonymous setting where there is no one around to see and report suspicious activity, so having a public trail could decrease crime, considering that a little used, unimproved, dirt bicycle-walking trail already exists next to the railroad track.

[jetskier]

Originally Posted by joey2665

Jetskier I probably would have agreed with you three month ago but I do not know. I am in Long Bay and I opose anything that brings more traffic into our comminity.

My house was one of the homes burglarized recently and I had losses and damages exceeding 5000.00 and after speaking to the detective they stated that the criminals came in from and left via the rail road tracks.

A public trail that goes through our beautiful community although on the surface sounds great would only invite more ciminal activity especially during the off season.

Hi Joey,

I understand...we had some houses broken into in our neighborhood too. Some of our neighbors are actually moving as a result of the robbery. My understanding is that this happened after the snow melted and there was access to lake along the tracks. As I understand it, they caught the kids who did this...all little consolation, I am sure.

The other consideration, based upon your point is all the boats along the shorefront. That is an enormous potential exposure.

One other interesting considerations is actually the tax base. Right now, Laconia assesses property as waterfront if you have an unimpeded path to the water even if you are not directly on the water. With a fence and a trail that is clearly an impediment and waterfront will no longer be waterfront, there are going to be a ton of abatement filings if this all plays out.

Best idea, go around...cheaper, safer for everyone, same amount of exercise.

Jetskier

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Hey, how about an invisible fence just like for Barney the Basset Hound! Get too close to the invisible line and you get a good sharp electric jolt in your neck. Trail users would need to poney up twenty bucks or so to pay for their invisible fence-personal people collars.........ZAP!

Seriously, why don't you try contributing something of value for once.

[trfour]

From the Citizen;

http://citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll/art...-1/citnews1403



Terry
________________________________

[john60ri]

Looking forward to walking the trail. I usually visit the Laconia Library a couple of times when on vacation, and I'm curious to see where the trail begins. I get so much info from you guys on the forum! I wanna check out the new Fiddlehead Farms in Alton Bay, too.

[webmaster]

Here's an interesting article about a community that removed the fencing along their bike trail. It seems like removing the fence would eliminate many objections and should be considered.

http://www.americantrails.org/resour...avonfence.html

[jetskier]

Originally Posted by webmaster

Here's an interesting article about a community that removed the fencing along their bike trail. It seems like removing the fence would eliminate many objections and should be considered.

http://www.americantrails.org/resour...avonfence.html

Hi Don,

Please note that in the article the Boston-Maine railroad is not an active railway along this trail. In the case of the WOW trail, there is an active railway operating along a proposed route as a potential adjacency. I think that this is the crux of the issue. The railway does not want to operate next to the trail without a barrier as a matter of safety. The barrier is an issue for everyone else. So, if everyone is hell bent on this route, displace the railroad. That would save huge money and remove a significant safety issue. For my money, I would reroute...but, that is me.

Jetskier

[brk-lnt]

Not to get off-topic, but I'm surprised the railroad is still in business. Every time it comes by it seems like the cars are 80% empty.

[trfour]

Originally Posted by jetskier

Hi Don,

Please note that in the article the Boston-Maine railroad is not an active railway along this trail. In the case of the WOW trail, there is an active railway operating along a proposed route as a potential adjacency. I think that this is the crux of the issue. The railway does not want to operate next to the trail without a barrier as a matter of safety. The barrier is an issue for everyone else. So, if everyone is hell bent on this route, displace the railroad. That would save huge money and remove a significant safety issue. For my money, I would reroute...but, that is me.

Jetskier

Deafunct Railroad?

Reminds me of living in Vermont when we used to open the front and back doors to let the 3 AM train go through...
We adapted well to our close proximity, and learned to use the ground shake to rock us to sleep, after a bit.

I honestly don't know where you came from, however I do know that the railroad traffic in this topic area, is nil to none most of the year round. Now here again, picture yourself at a baseball game at Fenway Park, for instance. When you should hear a very LOUD CROWD noise, put your hotdog down for just a moment, and pay attention! A fast ball could be headed your way...

Okay, I have lived in Laconia since years, and the WOW trail is one of many improvements to this area that I totally agree with!

Folks here have been putting up with me for many long years as well.
Even though I'm a little dislectic, and spell WOW backwords, it's still a good thing!



Terry
___________________________________________

[trfour]

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

Not to get off-topic, but I'm surprised the railroad is still in business. Every time it comes by it seems like the cars are 80% empty.

WOW... You really know how to hurt a guy!
Hay, I'll take 20% of that, any day!...

[no-engine]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

You never know....Laconia has a number of bicycle officers who patrol on bicycles, and it could be that a WOW Trail would have more honest citizens and police on the look-out, out your way. Thieves like to have an anonymous setting where there is no one around to see and report suspicious activity, so having a public trail could decrease crime, considering that a little used, unimproved, dirt bicycle-walking trail already exists next to the railroad track.

Very true, FL. Meredith has bicycle officers also, and I assume Belmont.

A Long Bay person posted that their attorney before settlement, NEVER discussed or disclosed a ROW through property! That legal adviser was negligent! If me, I'd take action. I once worked in real estate sales/brokerage. I also once x-c skiid along tracks within that area, and it can be very quiet area and "anonymous"! Depends on many factors. I'd also review my association's by-laws.

Next, I am unaware of details about "fencing". Did the State Legislature mandate fencing? Just how did that come about? I once observed the MA Cambridge, Arlington, Lexington "Minute Man" railroad bed converted to multi-use. There is fencing, BUT many openings for a person to walk through; there are areas where views exist. It all seems very good for mixed uses. People for the most part respect one another.

If NH Lawmakers said one seamless fence either side, somebody should work with their reps to introduce a bill to correct the problem. If I am wrong, as I wrote in another post, people need to go with the flow.

Do Laconia & Meredith property owners who own adjacent to the path, truly own the Lake sides of the path? Have an easement or what to access Lake side? It must vary. If their property is both sides of the path, I would think they have a right to cross and be given an opening in such fence. If they do not own both sides, then they have no recourse.

Seems that anyone owning land abutting the tracks, should seek legal advice from attorney of choice. Same would be true for those who are part of a condo association that owns land abutting the tracks. I know several people in Meredith who's lands abut the tracks, and they realize they have no legal access to land across the tracks. In many cases, the State's land or ROW includes the waterfront, which often is such a thin strip and of no real value or use.

Let's realize that we as forum people, are not giving legal advice. Please seek it oneself. Thanks!

[birchhaven]

The rail road company is subsidized by the state, so they get paid to run empty or full does not matter.
If they made money I would have a different opinion than the one I am about to express but the rail road cost all us tax payers money. It should be dissolved, and the trail should either go in or the land should go back to the original plot owners (at one point the land that the tracks were on was owned by the abutting property) or some mix of those two ideas.
Food for thought.

[Skip]

Vandals have apparently struck the WOW trail in the Lakeport area.

Article detailing the issue as covered by the Citizen can be read HERE!

[trfour]

Hopefully, children going back to school, and with the economy starting to get back on track, most of the vandalism will go away...

If not, maybe some strategically located surveillance or web-Cameras could help?

Thanks for the article Skip. Public awareness should help out too, in keeping a closer eye on things in any trouble areas.



Terry
______________________________________

[windham17]

I have no problem with the recreation aspect of this but there needs to be a balance. For those of us that own property along or near the shoreline there was a premium price paid and premium taxes that are paid annually. I think the towns Laconia, Meredith, etc. better get on board with the fact that if access to shoreline is compromised real estate taxes need to be adjusted accordingly. I recongnize this is likely not in the thought process but should be.

[trfour]

Committee to help fund WOW Trail maintenance.

http://citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll/art...2/0/CITNEWSHot



Terry
______________________________

[trfour]

City honors WOW Trail's friends.
http://citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll/art...582/-1/CITIZEN



Terry
________________________

[trfour]

Originally Posted by flyguy

I don't think the major problems will only be trash, or swimming, or trespassing, or even crime. How 'bout having a half dozen loud motorcycles go through your back yard?

Not such a long shot any more... Dear flyguy, I am shocked at you're doom and gloom about the WOW Trail!!!!

I would like to point out that there are many in this area that have had successful transplant surgery... For instance, a place to try out their new knee's...

This trail affords much more to so many, than some others would like to disallow...

I am very sure that they will not invade you're airSpace.

Now, I am very proud to be an world wide trans'Plant, if you will, and am supportive of those of us with progressive thinking that made this trail possible for all of us in this area. A very rewording venture by some very great people that have a view in their community...

Points of view, are not always from the sky! And yet, they prevail today!

Terry
_______________________________

[fatlazyless]

The WOW Trail is once again on the front page of the www.laconiadailysun.com, the September 29 headline shouts:

"Effort to find alternate WOW Trail route through South Down is dead; homeowners there unalterably opposed"

With one WOW Trail mile complete, and eight more miles proposed, it is possible the legal battle could be more challenging than the construction of the trail? Stay tuned...only time while tell...as South Down residents pile their support into a legal fund to stop the WOW Trail!

[onthebay]

As someone who will be directly affected by the WOW trail running between my house and the lake. I have only one real objection. That is the 4 fence that is being required by the state. Without a comittment that the state drops that requirement owners in South Down and myself have no choice but to fight this project.

[SAMIAM]

Can't say that I blame you.......who on this forum wants a 4 foot chain link fence in front of their property?

[summersux]

Originally Posted by trfour

We are more responsible today, ' I would hope ', to take the weight off from the couch, and put it up write back onto our feet to give us in sort of a get'along that was more intended for us, in the first place!

Short story, I think that the WOW TRAIL is going in the right direction..

Keeps one, young... And it will help you too!
______________________________________________

Unfortunately not a lot of people will get what you are saying. The average American is fat, dumb and like it that way.

The WOW is going in the right direction every other touristy area I have lived in has a bike trail, some very extensive. When I lived in Colorado the bike trail was how I got to work as did many others. On the weekends family's were all over the trail riding to and from local businesses spending all kinds of money and I'm sure the local business owners are happy with that.

[windham17]

As a South Down resident I have no issue with the trail coming thruogh with the exception of any fence that would be created. There must be hunderds of homes with in South Down that all are paying high property taxes to Laconia. Thus, if the Wow trail isnt considerate of the needs of all the property owners I dont think there is any choice but to fight it. Hopefully a mutual solution can be worked out.

[jetskier]

As I have previously stated...if you want the trail, then suspend the operation of the train. The mixed use is the primary problem as safety is dictating that a fence separate the trail and the train. In addition, this portion of the trail will be exceedingly expensive as bridges will have to be built (ex: Pickerel Cove). The alternative is to just go through the woods...the exercise value is the same as along the shore.

I don't see a legal battle as being in the interest of the community (perhaps the lawyers) and a number of properties in SDS & Long Bay are taxed as though they are waterfront. With a fence, there is going to be significant abatement filings. Not good in this economy.

Just my 2 cents.

Jetskier

[summersux]

Originally Posted by jetskier

properties in SDS & Long Bay are taxed as though they are waterfront. With a fence, there is going to be significant abatement filings. Not good in this economy.

Just my 2 cents.

Jetskier

I can't find them, maybe because I'm slow. Could you give me map and lot number or name of a home owner in SDS that owns waterfront.

[jetskier]

If a property has a view of the water and access direct line of sight, Laconia has been taxing that property at a higher rate. That does not mean that the property actually is waterfront, it is just Laconia's way of increasing their taxes.
I used to have a condo with a distanced water view (and line of sight access) and my taxes were 50% higher than my neighbor that did not have the view.

Right now my lot is taxed at about 30% of smaller lots across the street with a water view and line of sight access.

Jetskier

[Shaq_d]

Originally Posted by jetskier

properties in SDS & Long Bay are taxed as though they are waterfront. With a fence, there is going to be significant abatement filings. Not good in this economy.

Just my 2 cents.

Jetskier

Originally Posted by summersux

I can't find them, maybe because I'm slow. Could you give me map and lot number or name of a home owner in SDS that owns waterfront.

Real cute, summersux. You pulled in the quote, but did you read it? It says 'taxed AS THOUGH they are waterfront.' No one is claiming to own the waterfront.

[no-engine]

Originally Posted by onthebay

As someone who will be directly affected by the WOW trail running between my house and the lake. I have only one real objection. That is the 4 fence that is being required by the state. Without a commitment that the state drops that requirement owners in South Down and myself have no choice but to fight this project.

I agree that State's requirement of fence is "over the top" regulation.

As I stated before, when one purchases a property, one's legal adviser finds the easements, rights of way, ownership of the strip of railroad (AND the sewer line beside!) by the State, whatever the combined width may be, etc. between property either individually owned or owned by condo association and any body of water.

Read the article in the Sun Paper; it references the original site plan by Mr. Davidson and the City discussing a possible multi-use trail! Folks, history is history, except for the State's fence.

If this discussion is happening with South Down Shores, what about Needle Eye properties and Grouse Point community and the Mile Point Hill Community in Meredith. Just wait; they have similar deeds. I am quite familiar with property owners who abut the tracks AND sewer line in Meredith, and they are fine with the WOW Trail!

Best to communicate with our people in the legislature in Concord, for their stupidity. This forum is not that communication. Do you all think they read?

BTW, my residence abuts a right of way, BUT I have no vested interest in any property along the WOW Trail, current or proposed! I do know people who abut the recreation trail in Arlington, Somerville, MA, formerly railroad. I also know people who regularly use the trail along Cape Cod Canal, and former railroad bed elsewhere on Cape Cod. Both work very well for multiple uses - go and have a look!

[onthebay]

I was told about the proposed WOW trail before I purchased my property from both my real estate agent and my lawyer. I can't and won't say I didn't know it was a possibility. We actually viewed it as a potential positive feature as we usually walk the tracks down towards the Weirs or back towards SouthDown. We are familiar with other walking biking trails in many states. If properly implemented and maintained they can have a positive affect for both residents and businesses in the area.

I am not advocating the WOW trail because I see that there are serious problems with the way things are progressing. I have see the stretches of trail along Opechee and the condition of the fencing. Until they remove this requirement I will be opposed. The proponents are expecting South Down and other residents who will be affected to stand behind the trail and be assured that they will work with the state to get the requirement for the fence removed. They want the trail with or without the fence. It doesn't matter to them. Some along the trail don't want a trail with or without the fence, some like myself will fight the trail if it includes the fence, or stand aside if it is done properly without the fence. The proponents of the trail would be better served by fighting against the state to lift the fence requirement then to fight against the community who they will need to ultimately make it succeed.

Your not hearing from the other develoments further along the trail stepping into the fight just yet not because they aren't opposed to it with the fence requirement but because it doesn't affect them yet. If Southdown and the people affected by this phase succeed in either stopping the trail or having the fence removed as requirement they have won without spending a dime.

Every day people walk and cross the tracks all along the proposed route with no fence. The train has no problem sounding its horn whenever it feels it needs to alert someone. Has there ever been a documented accident with a pedestrian or ATV and the Scenic Train along these tracks. The train goes no more than 10 miles an hour. It runs every hour from 11am to 4pm for three months out of the year. People co-exist with it now without the fence.

If you step off the paved trail and into the path of the train you will get hit. If you step off the sidewalk and into the path of a bus you will get hit as well. Do we then line all the sidewalks that abut roads with a 4' fence so no one can walk into the street and get hit.

Where is the common sense.

[summersux]

Originally Posted by jetskier

That does not mean that the property actually is waterfront, it is just Laconia's way of increasing their taxes.
I used to have a condo with a distanced water view (and line of sight access) and my taxes were 50% higher than my neighbor that did not have the view.

Originally Posted by Shaq_d

Real cute, summersux. You pulled in the quote, but did you read it? It says 'taxed AS THOUGH they are waterfront.' No one is claiming to own the waterfront.

Got it thanks. Now we can compare values of houses of the same size but that own waterfront and see if they are taxed the same.

[no-engine]

Originally Posted by onthebay

I was told about the proposed WOW trail before I purchased my property from both my real estate agent and my lawyer. I can't and won't say I didn't know it was a possibility. We actually viewed it as a potential positive feature as we usually walk the tracks down towards the Weirs or back towards SouthDown. We are familiar with other walking biking trails in many states. If properly implemented and maintained they can have a positive affect for both residents and businesses in the area.

Where is the common sense.

VERY WELL STATED: where is the common sense?

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by summersux

Got it thanks. Now we can compare values of houses of the same size but that own waterfront and see if they are taxed the same.

For what purpose? I think most people would already expect the unencumbered waterfront homes would be taxed higher than the homes with a shared waterfront, waterfront "view", restricted waterfront, etc.

[SAMIAM]

It's too bad that a little yankee common sense can't prevail.That train creeps along at 2 or 3 mph and presents no danger to anything......there is absolutely no reason for that fence except that somebody's lawyer wants it.
I don't think anyone objects to the bike path and most welcome it.There is something ugly and unnatural about a chain link fence

[summersux]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

It's too bad that a little yankee common sense can't prevail.That train creeps along at 2 or 3 mph and presents no danger to anything......there is absolutely no reason for that fence except that somebody's lawyer wants it.

Well said "Live Free Or Die"

[no-engine]

Let's ALL, Work on one's legislator to remove the fence requirement!

Next for those in SDS, read a letter to editor in Today's Daily Sun!

[SAMIAM]

I'm sure most of your neighbors would say "Not in that post"

[RI Swamp Yankee]

Originally Posted by no-engine

...Next for those in SDS, read a letter to editor in Today's Daily Sun!

Here is the letter so everyone can read it. (Sept. 30, 2010)

Trail through South Down would be on public property, not private

To the editor,

WOW! What a group of elitist, selfindulgent,
and self-important people
there are in the membership of the
South Down Shores Recreational
Association. Imagine, assessing
themselves $100 per year to establish
a legal fund to “protect South
Down’s interest(?) with respect to the
proposed...W.O.W. Trail.” To protect
what interest? The right of way is
public property. Yes, the land where
the trail is planned to go is on public
property, not land owned in any way
by South Down Shores residents.

Over the past summer, a number
of letters to local newspapers have
praised the benefits of the now-finished
section of the trail, and ever
so many sharing and kind people
of Laconia have participated in the
beautification of the trail through the
magnificent murals and lovely flowerbeds.
What an absolute improvement
the walkway has been to the community.
What more can be said?

Out of self-interest and selfishness,
this small but arrogant and egocentric
group wants to exclude the citizens
of Laconia from public land that
they, the South Down Shores people,
apparently have been using and walking
over freely for years. This doesn’t
make it theirs. How sad that they
can’t see their selfishness. Their $100
per year could be used to help less fortunate
people than they are; and then
walkers, bicyclists, grandparents with
baby strollers, lake-lovers, teenagers,
dog-walkers, and joggers could have
access to the path without the need to
go through an expensive court battle
to win what rightfully belongs to the
people.

Harry J. Mitchell
Laconia

[RI Swamp Yankee]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

... I don't think anyone objects to the bike path and most welcome it.There is something ugly and unnatural about a chain link fence

My thought too. A chain link fence is just .... UGLY and in a few years it will be rusty and more ugly!

What about a 2 foot wood post with a log rail on top? I have tried looking but can't find an RSA that requires a chain link fence. If there is one somewhere, why can't the legislature make a change or exception?

BTW: Why is there no chain link fence seperating the Laconia Daily Sun parking lot from the tracks?

[no-engine]

Originally Posted by RI Swamp Yankee

My thought too. A chain link fence is just .... UGLY and in a few years it will be rusty and more ugly!

What about a 2 foot wood post with a log rail on top? I have tried looking but can't find an RSA that requires a chain link fence. If there is one somewhere, why can't the legislature make a change or exception?

BTW: Why is there no chain link fence seperating the Laconia Daily Sun parking lot from the tracks?

Thanks for researching thru RSA. I do not know where to research, but I'd continue.....

Apologies to readers: I mentioned the article, but neglected to attempt to copy it to post. My lack of thought, as I discovered the Sun makes PDF available.

[Skip]

Originally Posted by RI Swamp Yankee

My thought too. A chain link fence is just .... UGLY and in a few years it will be rusty and more ugly!

What about a 2 foot wood post with a log rail on top? I have tried looking but can't find an RSA that requires a chain link fence. If there is one somewhere, why can't the legislature make a change or exception?

BTW: Why is there no chain link fence seperating the Laconia Daily Sun parking lot from the tracks?

Remember, not every rule or regulation is an RSA.

The reason that the specified fence has been required is because the Railroad Division of the NH Department of Transportation has mandated it. They have the authority over that section of railbed and it's adjacent ROW.

There could be a myriad of reasons that they believe the fence is necessary, including a possible requirement by Federal Rail authorities.

In any case those wishing to understand the reasoning behind the fence would have to contact the NH officials at DOT to find out what the rationale was.

[SAMIAM]

Until Harry Mitchell submitted his letter, the discussion about Southdown was fairly civilized. To call the residents elitist, selfindulgent, self-important arrogant, selfish and is a little over the top. Almost hateful.
It seems reasonable for them to not want a chain link fence blocking their view and access to their property and it seems that they are open to a solution.
Mr Mitchell noted that walkers, bicyclists, grandparents "with baby strollers", lake lovers, teenagers, dog walkers & joggers would all suffer because of the greed of the southdown elitists (he forgot to mention cancer victims, minorities, single moms and the homeless).......but it seems to me that all of those victims he described pretty much fit the Southdown residents, themselves.
Also, his argument that the $100 fee for legal expenses could better be used to help the unfortunate could, certainly be applied to the huge expense for building and maintaining the trail itself.
The people in Southdown are just like us.....moms, dads grandparents, working, retired ....pretty unfair to characterize them the way Harry Mitchell did.

[fatlazyless]

For fifty dollars you can purchase an engraved WOW Trail brick, red clay - 4" x 8", that presumable gets set into the trail somewhere where it can be seen by WOW Trail users.Today's LaDaSun, Dec 14 - pg 10, has the story: "Paving the Way," or go to www.wowtrail.org and its' 'Order Your Personal Brick' section to find how to order a red brick engraved with your message for fifty dollars. You can get up to 3-lines with 16 characters per line including spaces.

[topwater]

So what your saying , is 50 people in a year will see you contributed? Speaking of putting a very large sum of money to a better use. Take all the money going to the WOW trail, and feed and cloth the people who really need it. My thought on this has always been and always will be, what a TOTAL waste of money this is. Its a feel good movement, not a practical one!

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by topwater

.... what a TOTAL waste of money this is.

From the wowtrail.org website, here's what it says.

"Where will the bricks be located?"

"Bricks will be located at the Elm Street entrance to the WOW Trail in Lakeport. They will compliment the new plantings, stairway, granite benches and information kiosk that will be installed there in the spring of 2011."

What's not to like about the WOW Trail.....say what.....everybody just loves the WOW Trail....and if you do not love it now.....then you will when all the nine miles from Lake Winnisquam in Belmont to Lake Opeechee and Lake Winnipesaukee in Laconia to Meredith Bay in Meredith....are all completed.

Totaling nine miles, one way, along a mostly flat, 10' wide, asphalt walking and bicycle riding trail that closely skirts the waterfront, it will be a great big plus for both residents and tourists alike.

Bicycle riding is a fun and inexpensive way to lose some fat and get into better shape! ..

[topwater]

WOW, 9 miles of flat pavement! I diffentently take back what I said before. Now, I believe it will be down to 20 people a year will see it. The gangs from laconia, and motorcycles will now have a shortcut back and forth. I'll send my money to St. Paul de Vincent. Maybe you can find a caring case for your binocs.

[fatlazyless]

You will probably be surprised that once the WOW Trail gets all built by how many people it attracts to go pedal it. Once you try it, you will probably like it, and return for a second and third visit to pedal the WOW Trail.

For example, what with this year's warm weather up through about December 13, and the total lack of snow cover, the WOW Trail could be used for bicycles up through December 13. On a day like today with temps in the lo-teens, there's nothing holding people back from using the trail except their own personal choice.

Would it be good for the tourist business in Laconia, Weirs Beach, and Meredith? Yes, it would!

[DJS-Laconia]

FATLAZYLESS- If I see that you have a brick on elm street I will dig it out myself. You know why.. Because you won't even know that it is missing. You talk the talk but I am positive you are to lazy to walk the walk. Seriously.. Hang it up and give it up. The WOW trail is a costly mistake.

[Jonas Pilot]

It must have been great cross country skiing on the trail over the last couple of days. Anybody have a chance to get out there and enjoy it?

[fatlazyless]

Laconia Police pleased with effect of WOW trail

LACONIA- Police Chief Mike Moyer, in a letter to Diane Hanley, President of the board of Directors of the WOW Trail, said the recreational trail has improved the appearance and increased the safety of the areas through which it passes.

Noting that the police routinely patrol the trail on foot and by bicycle, Moyer said that officers enjoy the duty, which provides them with opportunities for physical exercise and to mingle with the public. He described the interaction between the police and the public on the trail as "outstanding."

Moyer said that "the WOW trail has afforded citizens the opportunity to beautify what was once a rather drab landscape. What was once a trail of broken bottles and empty fifty-five gallon barrels has been replaced by beautiful murals, flowers and a very professional looking trail." Continuing, he wrote, "It is a much safer area of town now that it has been cleaned up and restored." The chief recalled that in the past the department fielded complaints about homeless people living near the path of the trail and remarked "those calls have all but been erased."

City Councilor Bob Hamel (Ward 5) read Moyer's letter aloud when the council met on Monday night.

The trail is, in effect, a city park because most of the land it uses is railway corridor leased to the city by the state. The WOW Trail group raises funds and coordinates planning and construction activity.

Michael Kitch, Laconia Daily Sun, January 12, 2011