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Old 03-10-2009, 02:13 PM   #1
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Default No smoking at the Weirs

Found this article on WMUR.

Laconia Bans Smoking At Parks, Beaches
POSTED: 10:46 am EDT March 10, 2009


LACONIA, N.H. -- Smoking now is banned at city parks and beaches in Laconia.

What Do You Think? Share Your Thoughts

The city council approved the smoking ban on Monday at 17 places, including Weirs Beach. The city Parks and Recreation Department recommended the ban at the suggestion of the Laconia Little League.

Violators will be fined $50 for a first offense, $100 for the second and $200 for the third. They also could be removed from the area.
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Old 03-10-2009, 02:23 PM   #2
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Default Not good

Quote:
Originally Posted by SIKSUKR View Post
Found this article on WMUR.

Laconia Bans Smoking At Parks, Beaches
POSTED: 10:46 am EDT March 10, 2009


LACONIA, N.H. -- Smoking now is banned at city parks and beaches in Laconia.

What Do You Think? Share Your Thoughts

The city council approved the smoking ban on Monday at 17 places, including Weirs Beach. The city Parks and Recreation Department recommended the ban at the suggestion of the Laconia Little League.

Violators will be fined $50 for a first offense, $100 for the second and $200 for the third. They also could be removed from the area.
Not a smoker...never have been. But this is WRONG!
Really. What's next??!! You can't speed on the lake?!
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Old 03-10-2009, 02:32 PM   #3
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Default Live free or die??

General Stark is spinning in his grave...
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Old 03-10-2009, 02:51 PM   #4
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Default aahhh.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by SIKSUKR View Post
Found this article on WMUR.

Laconia Bans Smoking At Parks, Beaches
POSTED: 10:46 am EDT March 10, 2009


LACONIA, N.H. -- Smoking now is banned at city parks and beaches in Laconia.

What Do You Think? Share Your Thoughts

The city council approved the smoking ban on Monday at 17 places, including Weirs Beach. The city Parks and Recreation Department recommended the ban at the suggestion of the Laconia Little League.

Violators will be fined $50 for a first offense, $100 for the second and $200 for the third. They also could be removed from the area.
Ahhhh, I finally get my 1 week vacation after working my 50+ hour a week job for the past 51 weeks. I choose Weirs Beach as my site to do nothing but relax for the entire week. Mountain Views, clean refreshing water.....oh yeah....and the inconsiderate idiot next to me lighting up a Winston. Mmmm, who needs the fresh mountain air anyway. Oh and later when the kids are building sand castles, they can use the cigarette ends that were buried 2 inches into the sand where the idiot sat as decorative castle tops.. Who would of thunk that anyone would ever find it buried that deep. Ha ha Ban them!! I love NH!! Live Free or Die should not be done so at the expense of others. MMmm, I wonder if I'll get any responses on this.
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Old 03-10-2009, 03:04 PM   #5
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Default Smoking Ban

Smoking what?

But seriously, I think it sucks. I just quit 3 months ago and how am I gonna get a whiff of smoke if they ban it everywhere. Gee whiz, I'll probably have to start inviting smokers over to the house in order to smell that delicious smell ever again.

No, really really serious this time. Its one of the reasons I quit, smokers are persona non-grata these days, and you don't have any rights because your doing a "bad thing" and you're the minority. Wait a minute, minority rights what are those? Damn States won't even pay for stop smoking clinics with the tobacco settlement money they all got, but they'll fee and fine you into quitting.

How do I feel about it? I'm mad as hell and I didn't want to take it anymore, so I quit. I guess that makes me a quitter, also a little nuts because I'm still not over the addiction.
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Old 03-10-2009, 03:17 PM   #6
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Default kids?

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Ahhhh, I finally get my 1 week vacation after working my 50+ hour a week job for the past 51 weeks. I choose Weirs Beach as my site to do nothing but relax for the entire week. Mountain Views, clean refreshing water.....oh yeah....and the inconsiderate idiot next to me lighting up a Winston. Mmmm, who needs the fresh mountain air anyway. Oh and later when the kids are building sand castles, they can use the cigarette ends that were buried 2 inches into the sand where the idiot sat as decorative castle tops.. Who would of thunk that anyone would ever find it buried that deep. Ha ha Ban them!! I love NH!! Live Free or Die should not be done so at the expense of others. MMmm, I wonder if I'll get any responses on this.
Oh, you have kids? Wow. And you're bringing them with you? That's no good.
I chose to vaca there as well this year, and man, when I'm trying to relax, I hate the noise those little buggas make...running all over the place and splashing water everywhere. I'm trying to nap and breathe that fresh mountian air, and those kids are running around and kicking up sand.

Get the point? To each, his own. And no, I don't smoke. Find it to be a filthy habit. But, it's not my place to tell someone else not to, especially outside. You enjoy the beach your way. Others can do it their way.
If someone wants to walk over toward the channell, watch the boats, and light up, what's the problem.
Anyway....
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Old 03-10-2009, 03:25 PM   #7
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Default

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Originally Posted by sa meredith View Post
Oh, you have kids? Wow. And you're bringing them with you? That's no good.
I chose to vaca there as well this year, and man, when I'm trying to relax, I hate the noise those little buggas make...running all over the place and splashing water everywhere. I'm trying to nap and breathe that fresh mountian air, and those kids are running around and kicking up sand.

Get the point? To each, his own. And no, I don't smoke. Find it to be a filthy habit. But, it's not my place to tell someone else not to, especially outside. You enjoy the beach your way. Others can do it their way.
If someone wants to walk over toward the channell, watch the boats, and light up, what's the problem.
Anyway....
Actually, no, I dont have kids but I thought I'd throw it into the equation. I enjoy a good bonfire too but I don't light one up on the beach. And why not....because they made laws so that I can't Oh well....tough for me. I do enjoy the beach my way....now I'll be able to enjoy it even more. At least now if kids kick up sand, it will just be pure sand ....not mixed with tobacco.
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Old 03-10-2009, 03:30 PM   #8
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I do not smoke and thankfully never have smoked. I really hate the smell of the smoke and have no idea why people choose to smoke.

That said, I think that out in the open and away from entry/exit doors, people should be allowed to smoke, in most places. I think this is another example of too many rules in our "Live Free or Die" state.

I am also concerned that this will drive smokers away, lower the tax revenue the state takes in on tobacco sales, thus further increasing the property tax burden.

I can understand not allowing people to smoke at youth athletic fields. That makes sense. But, to ban smoking at the beach makes no sense at all, at least to me.

Can't they have a smoking area and a non-smoking area at the beach.

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Old 03-10-2009, 03:47 PM   #9
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Default confused??

I can understand not allowing people to smoke at youth athletic fields. That makes sense. But, to ban smoking at the beach makes no sense at all, at least to me.

This one statement confuses me. Not allow it at the athletic fields but ok for the beach? Do peoples lungs react differently at these two places? Do our bodies filter out better at the beach than at the athletic field?
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Old 03-10-2009, 07:27 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
I can understand not allowing people to smoke at youth athletic fields. That makes sense. But, to ban smoking at the beach makes no sense at all, at least to me.

This one statement confuses me. Not allow it at the athletic fields but ok for the beach? Do peoples lungs react differently at these two places? Do our bodies filter out better at the beach than at the athletic field?
Just so others don't get confused as I did initially the statement above that starts out "I can understand... is Resident 2b's. The second paragraph that starts off with " This one Statement confuses me..is from GTO.

Housekeeping note GTO, use the quote function, otherwise folks will think you said both of these statements.

Now to the statement that confuses GTO. The National Association that supports children's athletic development, and that primarily includes little league softball and baseball has been advocating a ban on "outdoor" smoking in little league ball fields nationwide. This is primarily aimed at trying to reduce/prevent child/teen smoking. There are no accredited studies that show health related disease reduction from secondhand smoke prevention, but that is not the intention of the advocated ban. Having said that, their intentions are good. Showing good health habits practiced in as many environments as possible will hopefully deter children from taking up this deadly habit. However, a city adopting a ban on smoking in a non-children centric (not exclusively children) environment such as a boardwalk or beach is not necessarily a justified response to this issue. I believe SIKSUKER"S WMUR quote stated, "The city Parks and Recreation Department recommended the ban at the suggestion of the Laconia Little League.
".
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Old 03-10-2009, 07:27 PM   #11
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"They could also be removed from the area"........umm, removed to where ? Kind of an open-ended threat there. Welcome to North-Massachusetts.
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Old 03-10-2009, 07:31 PM   #12
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Thumbs up Congratulations

Thank you Laconia! There is nothing worse then sitting on the Beach in the fresh air and having some moron smoking next to you!
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Old 03-10-2009, 07:43 PM   #13
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Thank you Laconia! There is nothing worse then sitting on the Beach in the fresh air and having some moron smoking next to you!
The only morons in this thread are the ones calling smokers names!
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Old 03-10-2009, 07:45 PM   #14
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There's nothing I like more than listening to non-smokers complaining about smokers as they sit in front of their nice relaxing SMOKEY campfire...

Seriously, banning smoking outdoors is a little much...imo

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Old 03-10-2009, 07:54 PM   #15
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Well, I would never call anyone a moron for smoking. However when the smokers are sitting on the edge of their deathbeds, wheezing and gasping for breath, unable to control their bodily functions, breathing through a tube up their nose, I wonder if they won't be calling themselves names. If they can even talk that is.
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Old 03-10-2009, 08:41 PM   #16
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Thanks Lakesrider,

I have quit, but you want to describe my potential end as I have COPD, and you want to rub it in by cleverly not calling me as well as others a name. Nice, I really appreciate your 2 cents.
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Old 03-11-2009, 06:18 AM   #17
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Default It's the littering that bothers me!

As a life long non-smoker and a strong supporter of indoor smoking bans, I am not sure I agree with banning smoking in outdoor areas such as this.
What I do object to, however, is the license many, many smokers feel they have to leaver their butts on the ground. Why they feel that smoking is a license to litter is a mystery to me.
This is what will make beaches more pleasant.
I wonder about enforcement, however.
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Old 03-11-2009, 07:00 AM   #18
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I don't smoke, but have nothing against smokers. Both of my parents smoked their entire lives. However, there is nothing grosser to me than sitting on a beach digging in the sand with my son and finding a bunch of spent cig butts. Absolutely disgusting, and I for one am glad they banned it on the beach.
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Old 03-11-2009, 07:05 AM   #19
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Certainly. If I can wake up some potential smoker from their sleep, I'll be glad to do so at any time.
BTW, my $.02 came at a pretty heavy price. I lost BOTH of my parents to smoking related diseases. My Mother died of Low blood Pressure caused by heart disease from her 2 packs a day most of her life. My father was not so lucky as to pass away from a heart attack. He died of lung cancer. Yeah he smoked camels during Vietnam. He lived through WWII Korea, and two tours of that Southeast asian country, to die by a bug. COPD was the easy part in the beginning. Nothing like having to sell your cars and personal belongings to afford to convert the garage into a hospice room, so you can bathe your father and clean up his bowel movements because he was too weak to get up. Sit and feed him ice chips to wet his mouth, and then bury your last family member. Yeah. I'd happily give up my two cents to have my parents back. Or someone elses parents for that matter. You should have heard the names my Father called himself for smoking. So I can relate to your COPD in a a very familiar way. I don't wish it on anyone. But maybe someone reading your problem and the memories that I have may spark a synapse in their brain to think twice about what smoking does to others. So Hooray for the Weirs no smoking ban!
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Old 03-11-2009, 07:09 AM   #20
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Oh, no........does that mean that those poor folks who come up on the busses from Lowell won't be able to smoke their weed any more? How unfare ..looks like a little profiling going on since most of them smoke one thing or another.
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Old 03-11-2009, 07:13 AM   #21
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Default Butts in the sand

I can top that, dog poop in the sand. That's really gross. Or what's also really gross is middle age overweight men in speedos. Ugh, gross to the max, ban speedos on men over 50 or who have a body fat ratio of over 28%. Also, let's ban food on the beach area, I can't stand seeing those horrid big mac boxes.

Folks, there are already littering laws. Enforce the laws that are on the books. For those who sit there and cheer for the banning of smoking, someday it will be your speedo covered butt clutching your big mac that the cops will be dragging off the beach.
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Old 03-11-2009, 07:55 AM   #22
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Default there....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pineedles View Post
Just so others don't get confused as I did initially the statement above that starts out "I can understand... is Resident 2b's. The second paragraph that starts off with " This one Statement confuses me..is from GTO.

Housekeeping note GTO, use the quote function, otherwise folks will think you said both of these statements.

Now to the statement that confuses GTO. The National Association that supports children's athletic development, and that primarily includes little league softball and baseball has been advocating a ban on "outdoor" smoking in little league ball fields nationwide. This is primarily aimed at trying to reduce/prevent child/teen smoking. There are no accredited studies that show health related disease reduction from secondhand smoke prevention, but that is not the intention of the advocated ban. Having said that, their intentions are good. Showing good health habits practiced in as many environments as possible will hopefully deter children from taking up this deadly habit. However, a city adopting a ban on smoking in a non-children centric (not exclusively children) environment such as a boardwalk or beach is not necessarily a justified response to this issue. I believe SIKSUKER"S WMUR quote stated, "The city Parks and Recreation Department recommended the ban at the suggestion of the Laconia Little League.
".
Using my good "housekeeping tip", I just wanted to add something. Whether its the litle league game or the beach, I think there are the same number of children and families at both. So I can't see the difference of banning it at one and not the other.
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Old 03-11-2009, 08:05 AM   #23
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Default oh oh

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The only morons in this thread are the ones calling smokers names!
Ooohhhh, sunk down to our level. I will call a cigarette smoker an idiot because most don't take into consideration the people around them Go ahead, light up and don't worry that the smoke is blowing into our faces....as long as your happy. And if anyone buries garbage on the beach or anywhere else, whether its butts or big mac wrappers....they are also idiots.
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Old 03-11-2009, 08:30 AM   #24
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Default I smoke but dont really care about the ban.

Island-ho, congrats on your triumph of someone else fighting your battle for you. Next time why not stand up for yourself and ASK the "moron" to put the smoke out or if they could move. Instead you just sit there and take it like a mouse and then call us smokers names AFTER someone else fights your battle!! Way to go.

I personally think that SAMIAM hit the nail on the head with Laconia's reason for this ban at this location and good for them, Hampton Beach is closer anyway. This is not tourist dollars being turned away, but it is turning away people that bring alot of garbage, and tons of kids in diapers and then that brings in water contamination and so on and so on. I personally have not considered even setting foot on Weir's Beach in over a decade. And the person that said this was turning into North Mass, this has been North Mass for a long time and it is time that New Hampshire takes it back.

Before everyone from Mass jumps down my throat for that last comment, 85% of my customer base is from out of state and responsible professionals that are looking to relax in a beautiful area are not the problem. There are two types of people in nature, Ones that go out and listen to nature and ones that go out and make nature listen to them.

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Old 03-11-2009, 10:06 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pineedles View Post
I can top that, dog poop in the sand. That's really gross. Or what's also really gross is middle age overweight men in speedos. Ugh, gross to the max, ban speedos on men over 50 or who have a body fat ratio of over 28%. Also, let's ban food on the beach area, I can't stand seeing those horrid big mac boxes.

Folks, there are already littering laws. Enforce the laws that are on the books. For those who sit there and cheer for the banning of smoking, someday it will be your speedo covered butt clutching your big mac that the cops will be dragging off the beach.
While speedos may be unsightly to look at, you can turn away and ignore them.

The problem with smoking, is that if you're in the area of a smoker you cannot escape the nasty smell of the second-hand smoke.

I'm all for peoples personal liberties and freedoms. However, I don't like when YOUR bad habits and health risks encroach on my personal space. If smoking somehow didn't go beyond the space of the smoker, I wouldn't care. Being downwind of someone with a chain-smoking habit is disgusting at best.

The smoking bans are not the same thing as banning things that can be *reasonably* ignored (sights and sounds). Loud anything (boats, cycles, cars, music, etc.) is rightly regulated with db level laws (although not always enforced). Smells that you could reasonably attribute as being universal (ie:BBQ grill smells, moderate cologne, etc.) is not something that needs public regulation. Smells that are hazardous in any form SHOULD be regulated in public areas, and cigarette smoking falls into this category.
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Old 03-11-2009, 10:38 AM   #26
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I don't smoke and don't care. Oh and I think this thread should be locked.
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Old 03-11-2009, 11:20 AM   #27
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Default Good luck!

Can't WAIT to see how they enforce this during Bike Week every year. ha!
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Old 03-11-2009, 11:20 AM   #28
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Default not looking for a battle

Look...I don't smoke, but my point is sort of this.....
We have enough do's and don'ts in the country. I understand about second hand smoke...really I do. And, again, I accknowledge it is a filthy habit.
But if government wants to intervene, MAKE THE DAMN THINGS ILLEGAL!!!
Stop production of them, and end it!
But don't regulate the industry, tax the people who do use the product at an unusaully high rate, accept the money, AND THEN TELL THE USERS WHERE THEY ARE ALLOWED TO LIGHT UP. It's not consistent, and it's not right.
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Old 03-11-2009, 11:42 AM   #29
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Default My last word

I think my points have been ignored and I know I will not convince some of you of the slippery slope of banning things. I won't let this thread degrade to the point of being closed, so I will say I understand the disgust some of you have for the smell of smoke but as far as a health hazard outside, there are far more dangerous things floating around in the atmosphere. So, I'll finish by saying I was a considerate smoker when I did smoke, and tried not to be the jerk most of you consider all smokers to be.
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Old 03-11-2009, 11:44 AM   #30
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Default Running out of things to regulate?

This just goes to show you the City Council in Laconia is running out of things to regulate. They probably should be more concerned with how the're going to run the city without money in these tough economic times.
Maybe they'll really get creative and ban cars from the city next
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Old 03-11-2009, 11:44 AM   #31
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Default Are ya done with that yet?

How about a more pragmatic approach to the problem of cigarette butts being dropped everywhere? The government seems to like to tax things, so why not have the feds impose a ten-cent deposit on every butt in a pack, making it worth their while to keep track of their waste. Those who don't pick up after themselves can rest assured that someone else gladly will.

Of course it would have to be linked to the next stimulus package, because the deposits on the butts already on the side of the highways alone would bankrupt the states (I'd be a millionaire overnight from the median strip on 495 between Lawrence and Lowell).
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Old 03-11-2009, 12:36 PM   #32
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I disagree with the ban and I am a non-smoker.

I'd prefer to see a couple of well-placed cigarette butt receptacles around the beach area.

I have no problem with them fining people for littering - that would make more sense. If the discarded butts on the beach are a problem, then the real issue is littering; NOT smoking.

It is my opinion that most smokers are considerate of non-smokers' space. Not all people are considerate of where they drop their trash - whether it's cig butts, gum wrappers, soda cans, etc.

I hardly think the city council is the true moral fiber of our community.


p.s.
If City Council really thinks that this will be heavily enforced and bring lots of revenue, they've got another thing coming. Litter will be least of law enforcement's concerns in the summer when they are already under-staffed!
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Old 03-11-2009, 05:12 PM   #33
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While I do not wish to get into the "culture wars," I enjoy an occasional cigar, but I would never smoke in a public place as there are a lot of misguided folks who don't enjoy the scent of a fine cigar. Seriously, as someone pointed out, cigarette and cigar smoke can spread over large areas, so a smoker's habit is not confined to his/her immediate area. This type of legislation might be a slippery slope, so it requires care. In a perfect world, smokers, butt-droppers, 150 ft violators would all be considerate. Unfortunately, it is not yet a perfect world.
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Old 03-11-2009, 06:40 PM   #34
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Default End to bike week

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Can't WAIT to see how they enforce this during Bike Week every year. ha!
This will probably be the beginning of the end of bike week. Too bad, NH will lose alot of money. Live free or die?
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Old 03-11-2009, 07:34 PM   #35
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I don't smoke and don't care. Oh and I think this thread should be locked.


I'm with you. I'm no smoker and don't care one way or the other who does. This thread will quickly out do a speed limit thread
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Old 03-11-2009, 09:48 PM   #36
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Yeah,I think it's kinda dumb. People are just gonna smoke anyways. They won't be able to enforce it.
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Old 03-11-2009, 10:15 PM   #37
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Default NH Still Free-est

No matter that we see freedoms slip away one by one, NH is still ranked the free-est state in the nation, with Mass ranked at #43. At least that is someone's opinion.

http://www.examiner.com/x-536-Civil-...-their-freedom

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Old 03-12-2009, 06:21 AM   #38
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"Excuse me, Mr. Biker sir. Would you mind please putting out that cigarette?" Yeah right, that's gonna happen.
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Old 03-12-2009, 06:35 AM   #39
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"I am a smoker, the world is my ashtray."
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Old 03-12-2009, 06:47 AM   #40
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Default Deputy GTO

Maybe we can deputize GTO for bike week since he seems so opinionated and passionate on the subject and have him enforce the rules in his Speedo.
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Old 03-12-2009, 07:00 AM   #41
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WOW !!

I just sit here shaking my head

With no "speed limit" thread to bring out the worst of people this season, we've now found a smoking ban thread where we can take it out on our fellow forum members ...................

again, sitting here just shaking my head in Awe.

Bring on ICE-Out ...... personally I need to get back on the water!
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Old 03-12-2009, 07:07 AM   #42
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Maybe we can deputize GTO for bike week since he seems so opinionated and passionate on the subject and have him enforce the rules in his Speedo.
If you want to fantasize about me in a speedo, your a sick person. Deputize....that was cute. I guess we could deputize just about everybody on this forum seeing that everyone is either passionate or opinionated about something in each thread.
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Old 03-12-2009, 07:45 AM   #43
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Smoking has been banned from the outside grounds of Lakes Region Community College for like ten years or so. What this state school that is located in Laconia has is a designated outdoor smoker's gazebo which is large enough for about ten smokers at once. It has a cigarette butt deposit that is a water-filled, plastic container with a long spout.

Possibly, the Laconia city council could take a look at the smokers' gazebo at LRCC and consider if they want to have something similar at Weirs Beach.

Supposedly, 20% of american adults are smokers, down from 50%, fifty years ago. Can you recall hearing the radio & tv advertising lines: "I'd walk a mile for a Camel.,' "I'd rather fight than switch,' "L S M F T - Lucky Strike means fine tobacco," " Salem - take a puff, and it is spring time," "Winston's taste good, like a (knock-knock) cigarette should!"
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Old 03-12-2009, 07:52 AM   #44
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Maybe we can deputize GTO for bike week since he seems so opinionated and passionate on the subject and have him enforce the rules in his Speedo.
As newly appointed deputy with my shiny badge and one bullet in my top left hand shirt pocket, I hereby ban bike week. Also effective immediately, nobody from Lowell or Lawrence will be allowed past exit 20. I hereby declare that boats may now travel at any speed that the driver feels safe. And as part of my own personal "STIMULAS PACKAGE" Only Speedos will be allowed at Weirs beach this summer
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Old 03-12-2009, 07:56 AM   #45
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Old 03-15-2009, 08:19 AM   #46
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"Excuse me, Mr. Biker sir. Would you mind please putting out that cigarette?" Yeah right, that's gonna happen.
...amazing..what a way to bring revenue to the wiers...chew and spit I guess....Place is nothing but a pit for the PC crowd now anyways.....Glade i have my own beach with a fire pit 5 ft from the water on a dirt road smokin and drinkin.....shotgun next to the door.....and no trash pick up..dont get any better than that
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Old 03-15-2009, 10:23 AM   #47
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Is the ban only in the actual beach area, or does it include the boardwalk, dock, and arcade areas as well?

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Old 03-15-2009, 10:53 AM   #48
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Is the ban only in the actual beach area, or does it include the boardwalk, dock, and arcade areas as well?

Silver Duck
This as writen from city web page Weirs Community Park – including the park house, trails, parking lots and all other areas..Boy...wonder who writes their laws....all other areas?....gotta be a lib...or a lawyer...$$$$$$$$$..probly a transplant from Ma....Just another knee jerk feel good idea..
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Old 03-15-2009, 02:26 PM   #49
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probly a transplant from Ma.....
Sigh !!!!!!!!!! What does that even mean ?
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Old 03-15-2009, 08:22 PM   #50
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Ban smoking in all public places! Why should public places (which I'm pretty sure smokers and non-smokers tax money pays for) should not be a turn-off to those who don't smoke. I personally get sick to my stomach when I smell smoke (Really, I do). They banned it in bars and restaurants recently which are usually individually owned, why shouldn't beaches and public parks ban it?

I shouldn't have to worry about getting lung cancer when I go to the beach (I should be worrying more about skin cancer from the sun!).

Smoking is bad for the smoker.
Smoking is bad for the public.
Smoking pollutes the air and lazy smokers create unnecessary litter.
It will be nice not stepping on half-butts and breathing in those toxic fumes.
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Old 03-15-2009, 09:20 PM   #51
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Default Food for thought... (and no offense intended to anyone here...)

Yes, smoking is bad for you...

So is eating fatty foods... what if all fried foods were banned?

How about drinking alcohol - some people get addicted... what if that was made illegal?

Reading certain books or listening to certain music might be bad for you, according to some groups... what if those were made illegal?

Speeding can cause fatal accidents - what if your car was designed to not go any faster than 25MPH?

Yes, you can get skin cancer from sun exposure so what if tanning in general was made illegal?

Too much caffeine is bad for you - so what if your coffee was made illegal?

The point of this is: What if your choices were taken away from you because someone else (i.e. government) felt you couldn't be trusted to make decisions for yourself?

Like I said... If the matter of the cigarette butts being dropped is the issue, then set a fine for littering. However, if this is done on the premise "it's bad for you!" then it's revolting logic that crosses the line into allowing government to make our moral decisions for us.
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Old 03-15-2009, 09:55 PM   #52
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So is eating fatty foods... what if all fried foods were banned?
Doesn't hurt the people around you.

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Originally Posted by Argie's Wife View Post
How about drinking alcohol - some people get addicted... what if that was made illegal?
Doesn't hurt the people around you. (Unless you're irresponsible)

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Reading certain books or listening to certain music might be bad for you, according to some groups... what if those were made illegal?
I can't see reading on the beach hurting my vacation. Read a banned book!

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Speeding can cause fatal accidents - what if your car was designed to not go any faster than 25MPH?
On the flip side, what if there were no speed limits? People would be going 110 down 93...that could be fatal! Hm, sometimes rules DO help the public. Irony?

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Yes, you can get skin cancer from sun exposure so what if tanning in general was made illegal?
Hey, if someone wants to chance it and no wear sunblock, it doesn't affect me. Nobody else is going to lose out on the fun at the Weirs because of an overly-burnt swimmer.

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Too much caffeine is bad for you - so what if your coffee was made illegal?
I don't drink coffee. But again, someone ELSE drinking coffee doesn't hurt me.

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Originally Posted by Argie's Wife View Post
The point of this is: What if your choices were taken away from you because someone else (i.e. government) felt you couldn't be trusted to make decisions for yourself?
In conclusion, it's kind of like this: Other people are directly affected by smoking in public places. Should I NOT be able to use a public park because I can't handle the smoke? It's not my fault!

In truth, people apparently CAN'T be trusted to make decisions on their own, or they'd realize that smoking next to the family with the two year old two umbrellas over is hurting him, VERY DIRECTLY.

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Like I said... If the matter of the cigarette butts being dropped is the issue, then set a fine for littering.
That's just an added bonus.

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However, if this is done on the premise "it's bad for you!" then it's revolting logic that crosses the line into allowing government to make our moral decisions for us.
Then make it for yourself!
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Old 03-15-2009, 10:56 PM   #53
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KTO - my post wasn't directed at "you" - and I'm sorry if it bothered you but I think you're missing the point... I did say "no offence intended". By the energy you put into your response, you come across as offended and I am sorry again if my post got your dander up...

It's more about the taking away of choice - by government - than anything else.


You could apply my arguments to anything else that's "shared in the air" - car exhaust, bbq grill smoke, campfire smoke, whatever. (I know someone who get nauseated by the smell of coffee - so should it be outlawed?)

What if it was your choice or freedom that was being taken away and suddenly made the issue? What then? What if it was something that *you* liked or preferred or maybe (gasp!) was even addicted to? (Put the shoe on the other foot, theory...)

I'm the first to acknowledge that smoking is bad for you and those around you but I'm also aware that these laws affect a part of our society and lead me to wonder what the government will go after *next*... Right now, this doesn't affect me directly (or you, according to your post)... but what could be next? Oh, consider the possibilities and ask, "Why think for myself anymore; the government will tell me how to live!" (Uh, no thanks!)

Just some food for thought...

Peace.
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Old 03-16-2009, 05:51 AM   #54
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It's more about the taking away of choice - by government - than anything else.


You could apply my arguments to anything else that's "shared in the air" - car exhaust, bbq grill smoke, campfire smoke, whatever. (I know someone who get nauseated by the smell of coffee - so should it be outlawed?)

Peace.
The biggest arguments against banning smoking in public places is generally that the second-hand smoke is both dangerous to others in the area (the exact degree to which I realize is somewhat debated) AND it smells bad. Additionally, unlike BBQ grill or coffee fumes (from your example) the smell lingers in the air, and since people tend to smoke multiple cigarettes, the smells maintain over a long period of time.

I'm fairly anti-government, but I don't see how this equates to losing your rights. You can still smoke on your own private property. There are many activities that you can do in private that are outlawed in public.
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Old 03-16-2009, 06:08 AM   #55
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No need to appologize AW....your point was correct.But you can't argue with a moonbat.
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Old 03-16-2009, 06:41 AM   #56
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KTO, well actually most of the things you, listed. DO hurt others. Indirectly, maybe, but it drives up health care costs, and our taxes increase due to them as well. Some day we will all be wearing little one peice Hazmat suits with dark glasses, live in little sterile oxygen bubbles and such!
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Old 03-16-2009, 07:00 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by Argie's Wife View Post
Yes, smoking is bad for you...

So is eating fatty foods... what if all fried foods were banned?

How about drinking alcohol - some people get addicted... what if that was made illegal?

Reading certain books or listening to certain music might be bad for you, according to some groups... what if those were made illegal?

Speeding can cause fatal accidents - what if your car was designed to not go any faster than 25MPH?

Yes, you can get skin cancer from sun exposure so what if tanning in general was made illegal?

Too much caffeine is bad for you - so what if your coffee was made illegal?

The point of this is: What if your choices were taken away from you because someone else (i.e. government) felt you couldn't be trusted to make decisions for yourself?

Like I said... If the matter of the cigarette butts being dropped is the issue, then set a fine for littering. However, if this is done on the premise "it's bad for you!" then it's revolting logic that crosses the line into allowing government to make our moral decisions for us.
I think that was very well said AW! It is unfortunate that there are always some who overdo everything so unfortunately laws need to be made for them and they are usually the ones who don't follow them anyway. Laws only end up hurting us, the law abiding citizens. It is a no win situation.
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Old 03-16-2009, 01:25 PM   #58
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Although everything AW said was true, you all are missing my point. Why should people have to put up with something potentially harmful and disgusting around them. People have the choice to avoid the other things that were listed on a personal level, but people are still heavily influenced by secondhand smoke, even in the open.

According the the American Cancer Society, secondhand smoke in public places can lead to cancer and other diseases as well as death in children. Although people fear the loss of business, "there is no credible evidence that going smoke-free is bad for business." and also "Public places where children go are a special area of concern."

The ACS also states that "there are no safe levels of secondhand smoke".

The American Lung Association also states that levels of secondhand smoke can still remain hours after the smoker has put out his or her cigarette.

Unfortunately, coffee and sunburns don't linger and don't kill others, so we're really on two different levels here.

Sources:
http://www.lungusa.org/site/pp.asp?c=dvLUK9O0E&b=35422
http://www.cancer.org/docroot/PED/co...Indoor_Air.asp
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Old 03-16-2009, 03:27 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by KTO View Post
Although everything AW said was true, you all are missing my point. Why should people have to put up with something potentially harmful and disgusting around them. People have the choice to avoid the other things that were listed on a personal level, but people are still heavily influenced by secondhand smoke, even in the open.

According the the American Cancer Society, secondhand smoke in public places can lead to cancer and other diseases as well as death in children. Although people fear the loss of business, "there is no credible evidence that going smoke-free is bad for business." and also "Public places where children go are a special area of concern."

The ACS also states that "there are no safe levels of secondhand smoke".

The American Lung Association also states that levels of secondhand smoke can still remain hours after the smoker has put out his or her cigarette.

Unfortunately, coffee and sunburns don't linger and don't kill others, so we're really on two different levels here.

Sources:
http://www.lungusa.org/site/pp.asp?c=dvLUK9O0E&b=35422
http://www.cancer.org/docroot/PED/co...Indoor_Air.asp
Inside. Those links don't apply in this case.
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Old 03-16-2009, 04:27 PM   #60
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Default Now there's an innovative idea...

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How about a more pragmatic approach to the problem of cigarette butts being dropped everywhere? The government seems to like to tax things, so why not have the feds impose a ten-cent deposit on every butt in a pack, making it worth their while to keep track of their waste. Those who don't pick up after themselves can rest assured that someone else gladly will.
Now you're thinking - hit 'em where it hurts! Nothing speaks to the average Joe smoker like more cash out of pocket for their habit - look at how much grousing they do when the cigarette tax gets a hike.

NH hasn't had a bottle bill like all the states around us and guess what you get to see now that the snow's melted? Bottles and cans by the skads along our roads and highways. Surprisingly fewer bottles and cans on MA, VT or ME highways....interesting!
Make it happen Gearhead - I'll happily sign such a petition!!!

I loathe smokers not because of their stinky habit which I'll remove myself from at all costs, but I can't do much about the losers who pop their window and toss their butts, cig wrappers, or entire ashtrays - what the hell is wrong with these people???

In the past, when I've been behind one of these a**es at a stop light, I'd occasionally get out of my car, pick up their nasty butt and drop it back in on them, but I also support the 2nd amendment and age has taken away the daredevil in me - a cigarette isn't worth a bullet in my brain.

Maybe if it costs them ten cents or a quarter deposit on each butt, then they'll use their ashtrays and stop wrecking my state.
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Old 03-16-2009, 04:33 PM   #61
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KTO - my point is about the choices we make and the "bad habits" we may have. You may choose to focus on whatever aspects of my post as you wish but what someone considers a vice another person may consider a luxury, hobby, pastime - whathaveyou. What was allowed 20, 30, or even 40 years ago in public is now not allowed - and even in public *outside*... It's an interesting progression of things...

On a side note...

It wasn't that long ago that physicians suggested that people take up smoking to help them to deal with stress - my mother-in-law was told to start smoking shortly after the birth of her first baby. She is from Greece and over there (even back then) it was considered bad for a woman to be seen smoking. In other words, she didn't start smoking because of peer pressure or to "look cool" - the society she is from looks down their noses at women who smoke. However, she averages about a pack a day now and is in her late 60's.

Ironic isn't it? Fast forward 50 years later and the advice your doctor was giving you that you followed so long ago now makes you a "social outlaw". Go figure.
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Old 03-16-2009, 05:47 PM   #62
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Inside. Those links don't apply in this case.
Fair enough. According to a recent Tufts University School of Medicine study: "under some conditions, outdoor levels of tobacco smoke (OTS) can be as high as indoor levels of secondhand smoke (SHS)."

And while being indoors with secondhand smoke is clearly worse than being outside, any amount of secondhand smoking isn't healthy.

I really don't care if people smoke. I'm not personally bashing smokers here, I'm bashing smoking in public. It is terrible to have to walk down the sidewalk and hold your breath or sit on a beach as the smoke drifts your way. Not only is it a pleasant scent, it isn't good for your health. If you can smell it, it's affecting you in some way.

Also, AW, I'm not making a personal attack on you or your post. I'm simply trying to argue my side of the point. Just as you are entitled to your opinion, I am entitled to mine.

To everyone, do a Google search. Hundreds of places across the nation and the world are banning smoking in public places with little opposition. Unfortunately for Americans, we have a hard time of breaking habits that we were so comfortably accustomed to.

Perhaps if EVERYONE realized that just because they were addicted to their smokes, the people around them aren't necessarily in the same boat. All smokers should always put out their cigarettes in public where there is another person besides themselves, out of respect for the non-smoker. But hey, smoke all you want when nobody is around! I'm not offended.

Source:
http://www.repace.com/pdf/OTS_FACT_SHEET.pdf
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Old 03-16-2009, 07:53 PM   #63
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KTO, well actually most of the things you, listed. DO hurt others. Indirectly, maybe, but it drives up health care costs, and our taxes increase due to them as well. Some day we will all be wearing little one peice Hazmat suits with dark glasses, live in little sterile oxygen bubbles and such!
Smoking actually is a revenue base (taxes) and a money saver for the general non-smoking population. Smokers die, on average, 7.5 years sooner than non-smokers. You anti smoking folks should thank us for helping save the social security trust fund.

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.c...ract_id=227498

And, saving you taxes.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/22477.html Be sure to read the last paragraph of this one.

A simple Thank You would be OK with me.

Seriously folks. I smoke only in places that couldn't possibly bother anyone. I have no problem with the "banning" at Weirs Beach, or any other venue, indoors or outdoors. Frankly most smokers I know feel the same way. I admit to avoiding hotels that are 100% non smoking when I can choose one that has “smoking rooms”, And, I will avoid the Weirs if the ban extends beyond the beach area. For the record, I agree that people smoking at any beach and littering the sand with butts is disgusting.

But a simple fact remains; government banning anything reduces someone’s rights. ( Pineneedles is not believing this from me right now )

Sometimes that is a good thing, when the "greater public good" is concerned. Examples would be, and not limited to, drunk driving, child abuse.. and so on and on.

The big issue really is where is the line between the “Greater Public Good” and
“Individual Rights”? I have more than a little problem with the whole idea that "banning" is decided by a few elected officials and often changed by the next set of elected public officials. (See.. Shoreline Protection Act)

Just think how nice it would be if people, not officials, all decided it's not good to do anything to break the common sense rule that says.... be careful that what you do, dosen't bother other people. (Breath, Pineneedles.. I’m still a democrat, I haven’t slipped to the dark side )


Just think, we wouldn't be worried about boat speed limits, wake sizes, fellow drivers, smokers, drinkers, people with kids in restaurants’, neighbors with dogs, trash after the fishing derby... etc.

Polly Anna? Probably.

"Can't we just all get along?" (Rodney King)
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Old 03-16-2009, 09:29 PM   #64
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... Additionally, unlike BBQ grill or coffee fumes (from your example) the smell lingers in the air, and since people tend to smoke multiple cigarettes, the smells maintain over a long period of time.....
So does the smell from the 'Golden Arches".
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Old 03-17-2009, 07:41 AM   #65
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Default just for the record.....

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...amazing..what a way to bring revenue to the wiers...chew and spit I guess....Place is nothing but a pit for the PC crowd now anyways.....Glade i have my own beach with a fire pit 5 ft from the water on a dirt road smokin and drinkin.....shotgun next to the door.....and no trash pick up..dont get any better than that
I loved you in Deliverance.
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Old 03-17-2009, 01:18 PM   #66
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Default Now in Alton Bay...

...you have this situation:

At railroad park, in the bay from the boat ramp to the swim dock area and Alton Bay Community Center.





and at Jones Field in Alton:



I do not know how often it is enforced, but this has been enacted for at least one year, and I think actually more than two. As a non-smoker (now), it didn't have an effect on me, and most of our time at the bay is spent on our boat at the docks.
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Old 03-17-2009, 01:50 PM   #67
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Talking Bike Week?

How are they ever going to enforce this during Bike Week? I am a smoker myself, and although this law takes away a bit of my freedom, it doesn't bother me too much. Non-smokers should not be subjected to smoke, and the butts in the sand where children are playing is disgusting. When I see someone light a smoke in a park where kids are playing I want to smack them right upside the head. I don't smoke in my home or my car, ever. Smoking around children is unnacceptable in my book. There is plenty of room outside to take a walk away from others and light up.

What did come to mind is the many places where smoking is prohibited and it is clearly posted i.e. Lakes Region General Hospital. However, there is many ashtrays put in place, courtesy of the hospital, and many smokers to fill them. Although they ask people not to smoke outside the hospital, many still do, and I don't ever see anyone being fined for it. I wonder if the Weirs will be another instance of this? Where it is posted that smoking is prohibited, but people still do it.

Unfortunately for smokers like myself, who are extremely courteous to others, a few bad apples have spoiled the bunch. It happens all the time. Those jerks that continuously puff away everywhere without the slightest bit of consideration for those around them. Tossing their finished butts out the window, in the lake, in the sand, or wherever...making the world their ashtray. The law is for the better, and we will all have to learn to live with it and adjust to it whether we like it or not...Just my two cents.
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Old 03-17-2009, 01:56 PM   #68
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Default smoking disposal thingees

These items are usually put there, not for the smokers convenience, but rather as a place to safely deposit the cigarette butts for those who don't know that the area is nonsmoking (or choose to ignore the signs). My wife works at a medical practice, and there are signs in the office, but some people will still come up smoking, and at least there is a receptical for them to place their cigarette butts in, rather than tossing them on the ground.

Since they put out the recepticals, there are very few butts that get tossed on the ground..
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Old 03-17-2009, 02:16 PM   #69
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Default Alton in on the act , as well!

I must have missed the vote on Alton’s ordinance banning smoking at the town parks and swimming areas, see Upthesaukee’s pic at:

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/photopo...ll&limit=last1

I could go on about the restriction on my rights but frankly we already know that the invading army from the South has overrun Live free and die.

BTW, I’ll smoke my once a week CIGAR at the docks in the Bay until they pry it from my cold dead fingers!! Oh, I’ll most likely have a beer in my other hand, please remember to recycle the can.
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Old 03-17-2009, 04:12 PM   #70
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Default Just blame the flatlanders

MeEscape how in the world can you blame Mass people for smoking bans? Remember we don't have a say we just pay taxes!!!!!
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Old 03-17-2009, 04:15 PM   #71
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Alton posted those signs 2 years ago and there were some comments at the deliberative session in 2008 about it.

I think I'm more annoyed about the "no fishing" sign on the beach than the rest of it...
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Old 03-17-2009, 04:22 PM   #72
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Default mmmm

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Originally Posted by Argie's Wife View Post
Alton posted those signs 2 years ago and there were some comments at the deliberative session in 2008 about it.

I think I'm more annoyed about the "no fishing" sign on the beach than the rest of it...
Maybe nobody could see the signs with all the 2nd hand smoke in their eyes
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Old 03-17-2009, 08:13 PM   #73
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I could go on about the restriction on my rights but frankly we already know that the invading army from the South has overrun Live free and die.
I am Locutus of Massachusetts. Resistance is futile. Your life as it has been, is over. From this time forward, you will service us.
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Old 03-17-2009, 09:37 PM   #74
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I am Locutus of Massachusetts. Resistance is futile. Your life as it has been, is over. From this time forward, you will service us.
Do I detect another Trekkie?

Signed,

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Old 03-17-2009, 10:16 PM   #75
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Default Safety issue

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I think I'm more annoyed about the "no fishing" sign on the beach than the rest of it...
When I was on the parks and rec commission, this was discussed there and the unanimous recommendation was to not allow fishing in swimming areas due to the very real chance of kids (or adults) in bare feet picking up a stray (lost, dropped, discarded, etc) fishhook.

You can fish in any of the areas in the bay other than designated swim areas. Best fishing is by the docks or the Mount Washington dock anyway.
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Old 03-18-2009, 08:23 AM   #76
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Default bannerments

Hey they ban cigarettes, great second hand smoke is worse than first grade smoke, but why? I will tell you, its the bad breath mixed in. Smoke, and beer afterglow smoke, will give you a high as it kills you.

You know what the state of Nh should ban? Taking kids on vacation! or maybe just having kids, seems they are a punishment. oops did I say that. I hope my daughter does not read this.
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Old 03-18-2009, 07:33 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by Nadia View Post
How are they ever going to enforce this during Bike Week? I am a smoker myself, and although this law takes away a bit of my freedom, it doesn't bother me too much. Non-smokers should not be subjected to smoke, and the butts in the sand where children are playing is disgusting. When I see someone light a smoke in a park where kids are playing I want to smack them right upside the head. I don't smoke in my home or my car, ever. Smoking around children is unacceptable in my book. There is plenty of room outside to take a walk away from others and light up.

What did come to mind is the many places where smoking is prohibited and it is clearly posted i.e. Lakes Region General Hospital. However, there is many ashtrays put in place, courtesy of the hospital, and many smokers to fill them. Although they ask people not to smoke outside the hospital, many still do, and I don't ever see anyone being fined for it. I wonder if the Weirs will be another instance of this? Where it is posted that smoking is prohibited, but people still do it.

Unfortunately for smokers like myself, who are extremely courteous to others, a few bad apples have spoiled the bunch. It happens all the time. Those jerks that continuously puff away everywhere without the slightest bit of consideration for those around them. Tossing their finished butts out the window, in the lake, in the sand, or wherever...making the world their ashtray. The law is for the better, and we will all have to learn to live with it and adjust to it whether we like it or not...Just my two cents.
...The whole idea is to generate money...they want you to smoke so they can stay in business...why don't people see that...its not because people were not going there to spend money...business has been slowing because of the economy and they need a way to generate more dollars..don't let them fool you into thinking its about the health of goers...Their sitting there rubbing there hands waiting for bike week $$$$$
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Old 03-19-2009, 12:23 AM   #78
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When I was on the parks and rec commission, this was discussed there and the unanimous recommendation was to not allow fishing in swimming areas due to the very real chance of kids (or adults) in bare feet picking up a stray (lost, dropped, discarded, etc) fishhook.

You can fish in any of the areas in the bay other than designated swim areas. Best fishing is by the docks or the Mount Washington dock anyway.


I know... (I get the logic) but... I still get excited like a little kid when I feel that tug at the end of my line and know there's something on my hook! Nothing beats it!

Somehow that ol' song, "Sign, sign, everywhere a sign... blockin' up the scenery, breaking my mind... Do this; don't do that... Can't 'cha read the sign?!" comes to mind...
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Old 03-22-2009, 12:17 PM   #79
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Default North Massachusetts?

Okay, I don't care one way or the other about the smoking ban since the only beach I sit on is the one in my backyard. I never smoked, but whether you smoke or not is none of my business. I am happy to move if it bothers me. Really.

However, I am getting pretty darn tired of the NH residents picking on Massachusetts. I mean, I didn't choose to grow up in MA, but I will defend it to the end. NH is my location of choice, but not because of Live Free or Die. Really, come on. Enough already.

Of course, you notice that I live in NJ which is cleary the state that gets more abuse than any other. I chose to live here (sort of - husband came from here, had a job here, we ended up here), but am waiting for the day I can move north - way north. Really, MA looks great compared to Jersey with the ridiculous taxes, unending regulation on everything from whether I have to have a metal or a wooden door between by basement and garage to the number of water bottles put out at a Board of Ed meeting (I kid you not) and unrepaired potholes that stay for years and years and years simply because there aren't enough houses on the street to justify fixing it.

And, we have NY next door.

So, NH, make peace with Massachusetts as your neighbor. I would bet most of your tourist dollars come from just south of the border. And stop calling yourself North Massachusetts . You are sooooo not Massachusetts (for good or for ill).

Of course, I say this all with my tongue firmly in my cheek. I love these controversial threads! So much fun.

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Old 03-24-2009, 12:30 PM   #80
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However, I am getting pretty darn tired of the NH residents picking on Massachusetts. I mean, I didn't choose to grow up in MA, but I will defend it to the end. NH is my location of choice, but not because of Live Free or Die. Really, come on. Enough already.
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Not one to get on the Mass Bash bandwagon but you really wouldn't understand if you didn't grow up here and watch the change that has taken place influenced from south of the border.A large % of the citizens are not the problem,the politics are.
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Old 03-25-2009, 12:13 PM   #81
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Associated Press 3/25/2009
Quote:
N.H. House rejects ban on smoking in cars with kids
CONCORD (AP) — The House has rejected legislation banning smoking in cars with young passengers as a violation of the adults’ civil liberties. Critics said the state shouldn’t infringe on the adults’ use of private property. They also said the refraining from smoking around children is common sense and
should not be legislated. But supporters argued the safety of children and their civil rights trumps the rights of adults. They said children have no defense against secondhand smoke in confined places.
The House voted 184-167 to kill the bill.

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Old 03-25-2009, 02:45 PM   #82
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Not one to get on the Mass Bash bandwagon but you really wouldn't understand if you didn't grow up here and watch the change that has taken place influenced from south of the border.A large % of the citizens are not the problem,the politics are.
This thread needs a thank you button.
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Old 03-25-2009, 03:47 PM   #83
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I will probably get burnt.... But I had to say something..

I think there are two seperate issues here..

1. second hand smoke

2. litering.

1. I am a reformed smoker. I was always very courtious when I smoked. I would never do it around children and make sure it wasn't bothering anyone. I realize that there are many people out there who are not so attentive. But do we really need another law. I would have had no problem with someone if they simply asked "could you do that elsewhere?". Because I was always careful this never happened, but why do we need laws to speak up? If someone is smoking and it is blowing near me or my son I will ask them if they could move. 99.9% of the time they will. Are people really too afraid of a fellow beach goer to ask them to move? If they won't I will. Not going to let it spoil my day. I don't think we need laws to hide behind.

2. litering.. I am pretty sure, but aren't their laws against this already? Do we need another law on top of a law to make sure it is adhered to? Oh wait, thats right we just passed another law we are not allowed to talk about that wasn't needed.

I am not going to jump up and down crying civil liberties for smokers etc.. but I will say we need civility.......
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Old 03-26-2009, 08:40 AM   #84
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Associated Press 3/25/2009
Oh my gawd, there is some sanity in the gov't! Thanks mcdude. I know some say that the children have rights too but I would wager dollars to donuts that those same folks in the Leg. feel that a woman's rights trump the unborn child's rights. Not that I am in favor of outlawing abortion again, its one of those things that you have to try and make it easier for the mother to keep the baby to full term, and eventually the number of abortions will diminish.

Its the same way with smoking. Spend some of that tobacco settlement money on helping people kick the habit and everyone will benefit.
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Old 03-26-2009, 04:07 PM   #85
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I found out that president Obama had scheduled a "town hall" type meeting at the Weirs beach so that he could present a big stimulis check to fix up all the roads,buildings and beaches..........then a staffer told him about the smoking ban and he said "Screw them....if I can't have a butt I'm not going".........so they called it off.......way to go Laconia CC
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