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Old 03-12-2020, 11:34 AM   #1
fatlazyless
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Default Meredith Library; yes-vote

Easily surpassing the required 66.6% vote needed, the voters at the March 11 annual Meredith Town meeting gave it the BIG GREEN LIGHT by a ballot vote of about 220-yes to 20-no for approving the 4-million dollar, library expansion!

Go to www.meredithlibrary.org and click on the 'Walkthrough' link to view the 1:28-long, interior space expansion video, created by Lavallee Brensinger Architects.


On March 13, a LaDaSun article reported the vote was 202-yes to 17-no for passing the five million dollar, library expansion.

The original Benjamin Smith-Meredith Library opened in 1901, and had the large three story addition on the right constructed in 1985. This new addition will get built to the left and behind the original structure, partially on an abutting house lot to be purchased.
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Old 03-12-2020, 11:46 AM   #2
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Obviously Meredith isn't an SB2 town if only 220 people voted.
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Old 03-12-2020, 12:08 PM   #3
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Yeah there's a shocker.... another stunning example of dumb and dumber.

Well congratulations to the town for auguring itself into another 8 million in debt.

What's next? I'm sure there is something else the town can waste millions on.
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Old 03-12-2020, 12:40 PM   #4
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What a waste of taxpayer funds. 4 Million dollar expansion for a small town like Meredith is ridiculous. Following in Laconia's steps of bad use of taxpayer funds. I am not saying the library could not use some improvements, but 4 Million ????
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Old 03-12-2020, 01:21 PM   #5
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Rather see them spend the money by upgrading the school libraries and allow public access to them. This would enhance both parties


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Old 03-12-2020, 01:36 PM   #6
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Default I guess the books cost extra...

….there are no books in that "new" library...I guess $4MM doesn't go as far as it used to....Ha!
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Old 03-12-2020, 03:23 PM   #7
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Default Guess Gilford was lucky

Their library was over 3 mil and the year round population is less than Meredith!
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Old 03-12-2020, 03:34 PM   #8
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Default ...... town & community input!

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….there are no books in that "new" library...I guess $4MM doesn't go as far as it used to....Ha!
Well ….. the video illustrates what the architect creates, while the library user content happens via library staff and town, community input. …..

For everyone who is secretly grumbling about their island property tax taking a serious hit with this four million dollar library expansion ……. not to worry ….. for an island house assessed at $325,000 ….. the annual property tax increase should be just $55.10/year ….. equal to one gasoline fill-up for a 21' bow rider …. and look what you get!
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Old 03-12-2020, 03:51 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by fatlazyless View Post
Well ….. the video illustrates what the architect creates, while the library user content happens via library staff and town, community input. …..

For everyone who is secretly grumbling about their island property tax taking a serious hit with this four million dollar library expansion ……. not to worry ….. for an island house assessed at $325,000 ….. the annual property tax increase should be just $55.10/year ….. equal to one gasoline fill-up for a 21' bow rider …. and look what you get!


Would be much happier if the 4 million went into the schools . Much better use of my 55.10


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Old 03-12-2020, 05:48 PM   #10
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Talk about investing in yesterday's technology (physical libraries) and I have librarians in the family.

The library as we know it can be easily downsized for the obvious reasons.
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Old 03-12-2020, 06:19 PM   #11
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Default The Bright Side?

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Would be much happier if the 4 million went into the schools . Much better use of my 55.10
I think most people would be surprised at the number of high school students who say, "I can't wait to get out of this place" (no matter what school- granted, it may just be an affectation of the times/adolescence).

They don't reach for books- it's the "media center" (as in electronic devices) part that gets all the action (and, unfortunately, it's more of a social area, too! Constant texting, talking and snacking). More space- more socializing.

For these reasons I agree with post #5, versus spending it on the school's exclusive use. High school grounds have come to be described as campuses. College campuses allow local residential use of their libraries- why couldn't this work in Meredith? Might be good for local adults to be able to see how their tax money is being appreciated (and mingle with the "free spirits").
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Old 03-12-2020, 06:56 PM   #12
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Talk about investing in yesterday's technology (physical libraries) and I have librarians in the family. The library as we know it can be easily downsized for the obvious reasons.
Would there be room for all the elementary kids after school lets out every day?

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Well ….. the video illustrates what the architect creates, while the library user content happens via library staff and town, community input. ….. For everyone who is secretly grumbling about their island property tax taking a serious hit with this four million dollar library expansion ……. not to worry ….. for an island house assessed at $325,000 ….. the annual property tax increase should be just $55.10/year ….. equal to one gasoline fill-up for a 21' bow rider …. and look what you get!
Notice whose money you're spending?
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Old 03-12-2020, 09:21 PM   #13
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For everyone who is secretly grumbling about their island property tax taking a serious hit with this four million dollar library expansion ……. not to worry ….. for an island house assessed at $325,000 ….. the annual property tax increase should be just $55.10/year ….. equal to one gasoline fill-up for a 21' bow rider …. and look what you get!
I feel bad for all those folks grumbling about the personal property tax limitations/deductions that now exceed 10,000.00. They can't deduct the Libary and DPW building tax increases anymore.
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Old 03-12-2020, 11:21 PM   #14
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Talk about investing in yesterday's technology (physical libraries) and I have librarians in the family.

The library as we know it can be easily downsized for the obvious reasons.
Surprisingly, town libraries still get tons of use--something like half of adults have visited one in the past year. Visit one and you'll be shocked by the number of people. Here are some details:

https://www.pewresearch.org/internet...nd-engagement/
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Old 03-13-2020, 12:01 AM   #15
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Default Fee for non-residents...

If I remember, a few years ago I asked for a library card and was told it would cost me $10 because I was not a permanent resident...

I pay over $12k in taxes to that f****g town and can't get a free library pass?

BS!!!
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Old 03-13-2020, 08:07 AM   #16
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If I remember, a few years ago I asked for a library card and was told it would cost me $10 because I was not a permanent resident...

I pay over $12k in taxes to that f****g town and can't get a free library pass?

BS!!!
Wow, tough guy. Have you considered just staying in San Francisco year round so you won't get so upset?
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Old 03-13-2020, 08:19 AM   #17
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Wonder how much cheaper it would be to make totally online. More convenient and less chinese virus germs to spread .
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Old 03-13-2020, 10:36 AM   #18
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Not surprising that this passed. The assessments and taxes or so low on property away from the water so that those properties will pay very little to finance the bond. Non-resident taxpayers will pay the bulk of the bill. It's like welfare only better. Never seen a town of 6000 residents have such luxurious municipal facilities but docks and parking for those that pay the bills built over 30 years ago and poorly maintained. I am sure the library is well used but that will change in the next few years as printed books will be obsolete just as we see the decline of printed newspapers. Everything will be available on line at a much lower cost. Groups that meet at the library could have been shifted to the underutilized meeting rooms at the community center. Shame this will still not be paid for when it is obsolete.
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Old 03-13-2020, 12:45 PM   #19
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Would there be room for all the elementary kids after school lets out every day?


Notice whose money you're spending?
I don't do day-care, nor should the town.
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Old 03-13-2020, 12:49 PM   #20
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Surprisingly, town libraries still get tons of use--something like half of adults have visited one in the past year. Visit one and you'll be shocked by the number of people. Here are some details:

https://www.pewresearch.org/internet...nd-engagement/
I'm not advocating for the closure of libraries. It's just inevitable that technology will displace them, shrink them, and their functions as time move on. I would scale them back, but it's up to the citizens.
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Old 03-13-2020, 05:45 PM   #21
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I'm not advocating for the closure of libraries. It's just inevitable that technology will displace them, shrink them, and their functions as time move on. I would scale them back, but it's up to the citizens.
No--that's the surprise--unlike books, newspapers, music, movie theaters--technology has NOT displaced them. Everybody has laptops, tablets, iPhones, and nobody's reading books...but everybody's still going to the library.

You should visit one (seriously, I don't say that to troll you). You'll be surprised.
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Old 03-13-2020, 06:41 PM   #22
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No--that's the surprise--unlike books, newspapers, music, movie theaters--technology has NOT displaced them. Everybody has laptops, tablets, iPhones, and nobody's reading books...but everybody's still going to the library.

You should visit one (seriously, I don't say that to troll you). You'll be surprised.
I know that you are sincere. I have a family member who is a library professional in the Boston area and about 40% of her staff have been phased out over the last 10 years or so. It's already well on its way to being done.

It's not a matter of town libraries offering an important service, they do. The mega-point is that they are, and will be playing a smaller part of information services in the future.

The old model of multi-million dollar physical buildings & multiple employees is not justified in this day & age. Many, many cities & towns have already consolidated & cut back on payroll and building expansions. It's inevitable due to the nature of the information. It can be done by & large electronically.
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Old 03-13-2020, 10:31 PM   #23
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Wow, tough guy. Have you considered just staying in San Francisco year round so you won't get so upset?
Keep in mind people like San Fran are paying for your overpriced library and keeping your kids in schools that are better then the locals could begin to afford. You are very quick to complain about the folks that you screw over with taxes you have no problem in increasing for a lifestyle you couldn’t afford without us.
Your complaining is pissing off your cash cows
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Old 03-14-2020, 07:00 AM   #24
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Keep in mind people like San Fran are paying for your overpriced library and keeping your kids in schools that are better then the locals could begin to afford. You are very quick to complain about the folks that you screw over with taxes you have no problem in increasing for a lifestyle you couldn’t afford without us.

Your complaining is pissing off your cash cows


Gee another tough guy. Sorry but I’m one of the lakefront people. I just happened to understand how taxes and lack of representation work and took that into consideration when we bought. Just because you may not agree with local decisions that may not work in your personal best interests doesn’t mean blowing foul smoke on social forums is productive.


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Old 03-14-2020, 07:40 AM   #25
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No--that's the surprise--unlike books, newspapers, music, movie theaters--technology has NOT displaced them. Everybody has laptops, tablets, iPhones, and nobody's reading books...but everybody's still going to the library.



You should visit one (seriously, I don't say that to troll you). You'll be surprised.


Agreed but do you think that warrants a 4 million dollar renovation? Put the money into improving schools or other necessary services


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Old 03-14-2020, 08:01 AM   #26
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Question Outdated, Yet Crowded...

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No--that's the surprise--unlike books, newspapers, music, movie theaters--technology has NOT displaced them. Everybody has laptops, tablets, iPhones, and nobody's reading books...but everybody's still going to the library.
You should visit one (seriously, I don't say that to troll you). You'll be surprised.
My family members go to the Wolfeboro Library to read The Boston Globe and The New York Times.

When I go to my local library to use their printer, the "Computer Room" doors are closed, having been "reserved" for club conferences.

Another Florida library I frequent needs to be accessed before the elementary school empties, the library fills, and all six computers get occupied. To their credit, the librarians shoo the kids away (in Spanish), so grownups can use the computers. Still, libraries have become child care centers.

A librarian in MA tells me town librarians cannot interrupt patrons while they view pornography.
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Old 03-14-2020, 09:14 AM   #27
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Up the steep hill from Main St, it's worth the climb to get into the www.peasepubliclibrary.org in Plymouth NH because they have a Keurig coffee machine and offer high quality k-cup coffee for one dollar.

Maybe we can start a movement here to get coffee going at the www.meredithlibrary.org.

What ain't they got ...... they ain't got coffee ..... omg !

They got computers, they got books ...... they got magazines, they got the newspapers ....... they got bathrooms with hot water, they got heat in the winter ...... they got air conditioning in the summer ..... what ain't they got ..... they ain't got coffee! ...
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Old 03-14-2020, 02:23 PM   #28
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Gee another tough guy. Sorry but I’m one of the lakefront people. I just happened to understand how taxes and lack of representation work and took that into consideration when we bought. Just because you may not agree with local decisions that may not work in your personal best interests doesn’t mean blowing foul smoke on social forums is productive.


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OK... so you're a Government's dream...A patsy willing to succumb to the will of the few. I don't give up my rights as easily as you. Taxation without representation maybe something you can accept...Our founding fathers did not! Do you understand what this country was built on?

I see tire tracks all across your back!
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Old 03-14-2020, 03:13 PM   #29
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Default Tax base

In many, if not most, towns commercial/industrial properties constitute about 40% of the tax base. They don't get to vote. But they have learned how to influence local government, usually through generosity. In lake side towns, seasonal residents are the "industry", pay taxes, no vote, no kids in school. In an extreme, they can close a plant, move or eliminate jobs, tear down the plant and take $60MM off the tax base. Removing property from the tax base isn't generally available to seasonal residents, but you can have influence. In my opinion, the Gilford Islands Association, over several decades, has done well with the Town of Gilford. We have committees and other meetings with the Board of Selectmen, they maintain the Glendale facility where we can even have UPS/Fedex deliveries as well as USPS. "Dump day" when the town provides manpower and trucks to take away refuse that is not suited to dumpsters. Last year, a beautiful new firer/rescue boat. There's more. As in any operation, there are disagreements, but for the most part it's a smooth running collaboration.
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Old 03-14-2020, 07:05 PM   #30
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OK... so you're a Government's dream...A patsy willing to succumb to the will of the few. I don't give up my rights as easily as you. Taxation without representation maybe something you can accept...Our founding fathers did not! Do you understand what this country was built on?

I see tire tracks all across your back!
Funny. You are upset about the library enhancements so you resort to name calling, going back 200+ years, and chest pumping. Instead of barking on social media, perhaps you could organize an organization of non voters to work with the town in a constructive way as the next post talks about or if you really want to vote, become a resident? There are actually alot of great non-lake residents in Meredith that aren't just interested in sponging off lake front people.
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Old 03-14-2020, 07:18 PM   #31
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Funny. You are upset about the library enhancements so you resort to name calling, going back 200+ years, and chest pumping. Instead of barking on social media, perhaps you could organize an organization of non voters to work with the town in a constructive way as the next post talks about or if you really want to vote, become a resident? There are actually alot of great non-lake residents in Meredith that aren't just interested in sponging off lake front people.
All I want to do is vote. Remember when blacks couldn't vote? Women couldn't vote...Not long ago.

I'm a massive tax payer who can't vote...Reason that?

Looking forward to your reasoning!
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Old 03-14-2020, 08:16 PM   #32
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In many, if not most, towns commercial/industrial properties constitute about 40% of the tax base. They don't get to vote. But they have learned how to influence local government, usually through generosity. In lake side towns, seasonal residents are the "industry", pay taxes, no vote, no kids in school. In an extreme, they can close a plant, move or eliminate jobs, tear down the plant and take $60MM off the tax base. Removing property from the tax base isn't generally available to seasonal residents, but you can have influence. In my opinion, the Gilford Islands Association, over several decades, has done well with the Town of Gilford. We have committees and other meetings with the Board of Selectmen, they maintain the Glendale facility where we can even have UPS/Fedex deliveries as well as USPS. "Dump day" when the town provides manpower and trucks to take away refuse that is not suited to dumpsters. Last year, a beautiful new firer/rescue boat. There's more. As in any operation, there are disagreements, but for the most part it's a smooth running collaboration.
In 2018 some island property owners got together in Meredith and formed the Meredith Islands Association. We now have a membership of well over halve of the unique non-bridged property owners on the islands in Meredith. We had hoped to have the success that Gilford Islands Association has achieved in getting first class facilities to allow access to the Islands. Island access is at a premium with limited slip and valet service available. The Meredith facilities have not been improved since 1980's and the most used docks are in poor condition and built at a time when much smaller boats were in service. We also must share the one launch facility with all of the other Meredith residents and day boaters from everywhere. If we park the least little outside of the lines or along LoveJoy Sands Road (which used to be allowed) we are ticketed. The town paid a large sum of money to do a study of the infrastructure and had an online surveys. The meetings were packed with island property owners who told the select board how inadequate and decayed the facilities are. The survey also overwhelmingly told them what was wrong and what needed fixing. We were led to believe that something would come of all the talk. As it turns out the select board was worried about some settling behind the town docks in town. Once it was found to be nothing, the board seemed to just go through the motions and have decided to do nothing at this time. If you remove the parking garage and expansion of walkways and fishing piers that were proposed for the town docks, improvements at Cattle Landing and Shep Browns would have cost around 2 Million if built exactly as proposed. Some modifications and deletions could have brought it down to 1.5 million. There is 750,000.00 in the waterfront capital budget. Why not do it? Answer, NO MONEY. We have no knowledge if the Library expansion is a good or bad thing although many schools and towns through out the country are reducing or eliminating libraries as we know them. My wife was a high school librarian for 25 years and in the last few years she worked over 80% of her budget was for online content. They even removed over half the book shelves from the library. It's the fact that there is no money for docks but 4 million for a library that is the problem. Meredith is spending 11 million dollars this year on town facilities that benefit the year round voting residents and not a dime on projects to improve the waterfront facilities used by islanders. We also went the whole summer last year without a fire boat. Meredith relied on a plontoon boat and a small gas powered pump to provide fire service. Gilford also responded to Meredith island calls often providing patient transport to the main land. The town could not find the 30 K to repower it's boat but did find 30K to buy a new police boat that is primarily used by the building inspector and assessors office. They hope to have the fire boat repaired and in service sometime this summer. If the town of Meredith would only consider us as part of the community too and listen to our needs and begin to address them we would have no need to vote.
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Old 03-14-2020, 09:11 PM   #33
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Again, I say- Better than TV!
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Old 03-15-2020, 09:47 AM   #34
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Well for all the praise that Gilford gets they also sport the highest tax rate comparatively speaking. I for one AVOIDED Gilford specifically because of this. So congratulations you got all sorts of "free" stuff but you're paying dearly for it.

I fear that with the financial incompetence demonstrated repeatedly by the Meredith town officials, cheered on by the voters.... putting additional demands on the town as part of an organized association will only serve to raise taxes even more. That is the only answer they know. Throw money at problems and if you don't have it, borrow it. This is not a zero sum game, it's not as if we as islanders can say hey can we have a portion of what we pay in taxes specifically set aside for these improvements. Town would never go for that and they really don't have to.
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Old 03-15-2020, 11:58 AM   #35
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I would like to have a nice, designated parking area and docks for Meredith residents. Advocating for them is great. My prediction is that if it does happen, it will be in addition to the other things the town spends money on and not instead of. The increased spending will have to come from increased revenue.
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Old 03-15-2020, 07:31 PM   #36
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I would like to have a nice, designated parking area and docks for Meredith residents. Advocating for them is great. My prediction is that if it does happen, it will be in addition to the other things the town spends money on and not instead of. The increased spending will have to come from increased revenue.
My fear is that the next thing will be a new 6 million dollar town hall. We'll see if I am right in about 2-3 years.
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Old 03-15-2020, 10:12 PM   #37
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Funny. You are upset about the library enhancements so you resort to name calling, going back 200+ years, and chest pumping. Instead of barking on social media, perhaps you could organize an organization of non voters to work with the town in a constructive way as the next post talks about or if you really want to vote, become a resident? There are actually alot of great non-lake residents in Meredith that aren't just interested in sponging off lake front people.
I agree that all who feel deprived of representation should do something beyond whining on a forum. I'm betting that 90% of the folks here that disagree with the lack of voting rights haven't done jack to constructively change the status quo. Even after all this discussion, has that moved you to act?

Getting back to the original post, I'm a lake-fronter and an out-of-towner for 7 months of the year that happens to enjoy the Meredith library. My wife, daughter and I get books there all the time, we've leveraged discounted passes they offer to local venues and, among other things, we've used it for internet connectivity when long-term power outages prevented us from doing so at our place. I don't believe all libraries are doomed to obsolescence because most are working hard to innovate, adapt and change things. Which I'll say is more than most others do to push their agenda - hint, hint.

At the end of the day, towns that harbor such institutions must decide to improve them or dissolve them. No different than any business, restaurant, sport or entertainment, simply maintaining them or compromising on them to save money just slows down the road to failure. Improving them gives them a chance. In my mind it comes down to a mediocre facility or one that can compete. There is no in-between and that goes for many things. In this case, the Meredith voters decided to compete. As someone else in this string implied, if you don't like your station in life, you shouldn't have bought into it, or you should get off the couch and take action to change it.
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Old 03-16-2020, 11:27 AM   #38
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Fantastic so it's great to know there are those out there that support endless spending no matter what just to "compete" with the town next door. That is brilliant thinking.
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Old 03-16-2020, 02:04 PM   #39
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Fantastic so it's great to know there are those out there that support endless spending no matter what just to "compete" with the town next door. That is brilliant thinking.
Precisely where have I said that I "support endless spending no matter what just to compete with the town next door?" You are very good at putting words in the mouths of other people.

You are also sarcastic and seemingly angry a lot of the time. I suggest that you calm down, get off the computer, and try solving your issues rather than complaining about them.
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Old 03-16-2020, 02:54 PM   #40
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Precisely where have I said that I "support endless spending no matter what just to compete with the town next door?" You are very good at putting words in the mouths of other people.

You are also sarcastic and seemingly angry a lot of the time. I suggest that you calm down, get off the computer, and try solving your issues rather than complaining about them.
In my mind it comes down to a mediocre facility or one that can compete. There is no in-between and that goes for many things. In this case, the Meredith voters decided to compete.

^^ YOUR exact words not mine.
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Old 03-16-2020, 08:43 PM   #41
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In my mind it comes down to a mediocre facility or one that can compete. There is no in-between and that goes for many things. In this case, the Meredith voters decided to compete.

^^ YOUR exact words not mine.
Welp...

I didn't use the words - support, endless, spending, matter, what, just, with, town, next, door. In fact, the only words I used in the sentence you attributed as my opinion in post 38 was - to, compete, no and the. So, if you do the math, of the 14 total words, you placed 71.43% of them there for me.

Like I said, you are very good at putting words in the mouths of other people.
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Old 03-16-2020, 11:14 PM   #42
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Welp...

I didn't use the words - support, endless, spending, matter, what, just, with, town, next, door. In fact, the only words I used in the sentence you attributed as my opinion in post 38 was - to, compete, no and the. So, if you do the math, of the 14 total words, you placed 71.43% of them there for me.

Like I said, you are very good at putting words in the mouths of other people.
Uh huh - well being a pretty simple minded guy here.... let me break it down for ya.

You start your post off by insinuating in a hypocritical manner I might add that those of us "whining" have done "jack to constructively change the status quo" Please cite specifically what evidence you base this on. You have no idea who I am or what I have done in this regard. That is 100% baseless and false. Up until now I had given you a pass on that.

Far as my putting words into your mouth 71.43%, well maybe I took a few liberties however easily inferred after stating you "enjoy" the library, good to know you and FLL are the only confirmed 2 that do. Suggest that a "mediocre" facility cannot "compete", I assumed with other towns I mean who the hell else is a town library going to "compete" with. And finally "Improving them gives them a chance" These statements collectively seem to indicate support of or at minimum favorable justification of what just passed considering the context of the discussion.

I somehow missed the part where you didn't support this? That wasn't exactly clearly stated. Or are you THAT guy that supported it before you didn't but now do?
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Old 03-16-2020, 11:36 PM   #43
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Uh huh - well being a pretty simple minded guy here.... let me break it down for ya.

You start your post off by insinuating in a hypocritical manner I might add that those of us "whining" have done "jack to constructively change the status quo" Please cite specifically what evidence you base this on. You have no idea who I am or what I have done in this regard. That is 100% baseless and false. Up until now I had given you a pass on that.

Far as my putting words into your mouth 71.43%, well maybe I took a few liberties however easily inferred after stating you "enjoy" the library, good to know you and FLL are the only confirmed 2 that do. Suggest that a "mediocre" facility cannot "compete", I assumed with other towns I mean who the hell else is a town library going to "compete" with. And finally "Improving them gives them a chance" These statements collectively seem to indicate support of or at minimum favorable justification of what just passed considering the context of the discussion.

I somehow missed the part where you didn't support this? That wasn't exactly clearly stated. Or are you THAT guy that supported it before you didn't but now do?
Sigh. Goodnight Maxum. You’ll feel better in the morning.
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