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Old 05-17-2024, 07:27 AM   #1
MeredithMan
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Default Live Free....

I'm sure this will get some folks riled up...

Driving out of Logan the other day heading back home, I noticed a big billboard on the right-hand side of 93 at about the Charlestown/Somerville area. It was a big picture of a family in kayaks on a lake with mountains in the background. A great scene.

Down at the bottom right, were the words, "New Hampshire...Live Free"

As far as I know, the state motto hasn't been changed to eliminate "...or Die". I'm guessing the NH Tourism arm of the State Government is the group that rented the billboard space? Did they purposely leave out "or Die" to not offend anyone in MA?
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Old 05-17-2024, 07:29 AM   #2
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I'm sure this will get some folks riled up...

Driving out of Logan the other day heading back home, I noticed a big billboard on the right-hand side of 93 at about the Charlestown/Somerville area. It was a big picture of a family in kayaks on a lake with mountains in the background. A great scene.

Down at the bottom right, were the words, "New Hampshire...Live Free"

As far as I know, the state motto hasn't been changed to eliminate "...or Die". I'm guessing the NH Tourism arm of the State Government is the group that rented the billboard space? Did they purposely leave out "or Die" to not offend anyone in MA?
No, I think the only thing that applied to that advertisement was living free, not the politics of being willing to die for it.

If it were a military recruitment poster, it might be different.

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Old 05-17-2024, 07:58 AM   #3
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Coincidentally, I know the people who wrote it. The goal is just to get people thinking a happy thought that resonates with what they already know about NH. They are trying to entice you to go on vacation, that's it

Now if NH were to hire the same group to recruit for the National Guard...
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Old 05-17-2024, 08:31 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeredithMan View Post
I'm sure this will get some folks riled up...

Driving out of Logan the other day heading back home, I noticed a big billboard on the right-hand side of 93 at about the Charlestown/Somerville area. It was a big picture of a family in kayaks on a lake with mountains in the background. A great scene.

Down at the bottom right, were the words, "New Hampshire...Live Free"

As far as I know, the state motto hasn't been changed to eliminate "...or Die". I'm guessing the NH Tourism arm of the State Government is the group that rented the billboard space? Did they purposely leave out "or Die" to not offend anyone in MA?
Maybe they don’t want people to think about dying while on vacation. I was at a campground on Moosehead and one of the campers at the site next to mine fell overboard during a sudden squall. They recovered his body 48 hours later.


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Old 05-17-2024, 10:02 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by MeredithMan View Post
I'm sure this will get some folks riled up...

Driving out of Logan the other day heading back home, I noticed a big billboard on the right-hand side of 93 at about the Charlestown/Somerville area. It was a big picture of a family in kayaks on a lake with mountains in the background. A great scene.

Down at the bottom right, were the words, "New Hampshire...Live Free"

As far as I know, the state motto hasn't been changed to eliminate "...or Die". I'm guessing the NH Tourism arm of the State Government is the group that rented the billboard space? Did they purposely leave out "or Die" to not offend anyone in MA?
That's been happening for quite some time. Any commercials or advertising over the past 10 years or so has left out the "or die".
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Old 05-17-2024, 10:08 AM   #6
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Live free and high property taxes in New Hampshire don't equate with me.

No sales tax though and when you do die, I believe the inheritance benefits are good.

How about "Vacation here, but leave before you die".

Sorry, I just woke up and poured my first cup of coffee.
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Old 05-17-2024, 10:24 AM   #7
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You might die if you don't vacation in NH???
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Old 05-17-2024, 10:29 AM   #8
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I believe Maine is ''Vacationland''

Changing from something that didn't involve at least a portion of the State Motto was not an option - because, yes, that was political.

T&T works pretty hard. But we haven't seen tourism really grow.
I think it went from around $6 billion twenty years ago to around $8 billion today. So not really much more than inflation.

Summer has always been the strongest, and more and more of that is boating-related. Boating has actually slowly creeped into improving the spring and autumn numbers and is clearly the reason the lakes area does so well.
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Old 05-17-2024, 10:45 AM   #9
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Default How to calculate?

There are so many second homes and STR's that it is hard to say what is tourism. How many hotel rooms now vs. 25 years ago? I expect there are a lot of STR's that are friendly exchanges and don't show up on the books.

kudos to Bob Lawton who sponsored the legislation to change "Scenic" to "Live Free or Die"-I think internationally this is better known than "The Granite State". Other variations on LFOD have been used for years, and this only enhances our image. I chuckle at "Live Free and Prosper" a twist on the Vulcan benediction and LFOD. Well done to the T & T Bureau who squeezes a lot out of a not so great budget.
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Old 05-17-2024, 12:09 PM   #10
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Default you can't have everything

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Originally Posted by garysanfran View Post
Live free and high property taxes in New Hampshire don't equate with me.

No sales tax though and when you do die, I believe the inheritance benefits are good.

How about "Vacation here, but leave before you die".

Sorry, I just woke up and poured my first cup of coffee.
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta...e-lowest-taxes
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Old 05-17-2024, 02:00 PM   #11
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Good info. It probably won't change our rank, but phasing out the I & D income tax will shuffle our internal numbers a bit.
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Old 05-17-2024, 04:43 PM   #12
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Anyone ever see billboards outside of the home states that say:

Maine: Dirigo

Massachusetts: Ense Petit Placidam Sub Libertate Quietem

Rhode Island: Hope

Vermont: Freedom and Unity

Connecticut: Qui Transtulit Sustinet


Me neither
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Old 05-17-2024, 06:29 PM   #13
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Today's Shoe comic.
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Old 05-17-2024, 08:06 PM   #14
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There are so many second homes and STR's that it is hard to say what is tourism. How many hotel rooms now vs. 25 years ago? I expect there are a lot of STR's that are friendly exchanges and don't show up on the books.

kudos to Bob Lawton who sponsored the legislation to change "Scenic" to "Live Free or Die"-I think internationally this is better known than "The Granite State". Other variations on LFOD have been used for years, and this only enhances our image. I chuckle at "Live Free and Prosper" a twist on the Vulcan benediction and LFOD. Well done to the T & T Bureau who squeezes a lot out of a not so great budget.
According to the DRA... many more than you would expect.
The change has been what tourists engage in while here.

Division of T&T, on the nheconomy.com site, states that tourism return on investment last year was strongest in autumn; even though the y-over-y numbers planted winter as the highest percentage of growth.

Since we know that summer has, and is the strongest, the room to grow tourism in the autumn made perfectly good sense. Some of that would be to boating not just ending after Labor Day; that has been trending now for a while, but seems to be getting stronger.

Winter on the other hand didn't seem to make sense - at least at first. The movement from snowmobiling - one of the most dominant activities 25 years ago - to ski resort related activities meant that a haphazard winter played less of an effect; and may have actually improved the resort outcomes.
My understanding is Gunstock did very well.

And I would presume this also added to room and meal expenditures.
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Old 05-17-2024, 09:13 PM   #15
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Today's Shoe comic.
Wish I had a picture to post. Before NH got overrun with people escaping from the south, there was a store/gas station on Rt 101A in South Merrimack with a big sign in the roof that said "Eat Here and Get Gas."
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Old 05-17-2024, 10:16 PM   #16
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The tourism slogan being tried out now is Discover Your New...
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Old 05-18-2024, 03:52 AM   #17
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Live free and high property taxes in New Hampshire don't equate with me.

No sales tax though and when you do die, I believe the inheritance benefits are good.

How about "Vacation here, but leave before you die".

Sorry, I just woke up and poured my first cup of coffee.
i've owned property in Mass., Delaware, Connecticut and NH. Our property taxes aren't that high. They are indeed higher but no income or sales tax more than makes up the difference.
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Old 05-18-2024, 07:10 AM   #18
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Tourism is mostly measured by the amount of revenue including taxation that it generates. It does that mostly with sales taxes, but also has an income tax component based on the BPT/BET to a lessor extent.

A percentage of that non-property tax related revenue is distributed to the municipalities and entered into their budget reducing the property tax burden.
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Old 05-18-2024, 07:24 AM   #19
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How is the state motto political? Itís philosophical if anything.


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Old 05-18-2024, 07:40 AM   #20
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How is the state motto political? Itís philosophical if anything.


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Bingo! Theyíve - tourism- been pushing this - leaving out the ď or dieĒ part- for a few years now. I donít like it.
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Old 05-18-2024, 07:50 AM   #21
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How is the state motto political? It’s philosophical if anything.


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It is, or at least was, a SHARPLY political statement dating from the Revolutionary War, asserting that we would sooner die than be subjugated by the British. Since we all agree with this today, and even the British are good with the idea, it's kind of lost its edge.
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Old 05-18-2024, 09:39 AM   #22
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How is the state motto political? Itís philosophical if anything.


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Because as a tourism slogan, bringing up the fact that a tourist may DIE is not really great marketing.

The current... Discover your New
A little different, and seems to be creating really strong y-over-y and ROI results.
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Old 05-18-2024, 11:44 AM   #23
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I prefer to live free and not die!
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Old 05-18-2024, 01:22 PM   #24
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I'm sure this will get some folks riled up...
Who gives a rats a$$ ?

Just common realistic advertising. Nothing politacal associated.
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Old 05-18-2024, 04:35 PM   #25
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Arrow Just for Context...

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No, I think the only thing that applied to that advertisement was living free, not the politics of being willing to die for it. If it were a military recruitment poster, it might be different.
During WWII, over 16 million men served in uniform for the war effort. (U.S. Census).
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Old 05-18-2024, 04:40 PM   #26
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Default Greatest Generation

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During WWII, over 16 million men served in uniform for the war effort. (U.S. Census).
The greatest generation, no doubt!

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Old 05-18-2024, 05:33 PM   #27
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But this is a tourism slogan...

The Greatest Generation is not the focus of the effort.

The new tourism slogan is showing deep market penetration, and a huge y-over-y and ROI. It may have been the old one was stale; but over its run it failed to even keep NH tourism revenue up with the rise in inflation.

If it continues and we see the revenue map broaden out... that might really be something. It would mean that the Division hit a homerun - but that takes a few data cycles to determine.

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Old 05-18-2024, 08:15 PM   #28
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Arrow $0.00; that's my type of price ..... live free N.H.!

"Day Use Fee: NH Residents age 65 and over with valid NH license: $0.00."

www.nhstateparks.org

"When park is unstaffed during the season, please deposit payment in Iron Ranger (self-serve paystation)."

NH State Parks in the central N.H. lakes region include:

Ellacoya State Park in Gilford on Lake Winnipesaukee,

Wellington State Park in Bristol on Newfound Lake,

Ahern State Park in Laconia on Lake Winnisquam,

Wentworth State Park in Wolfeboro on Lake Wentworth,

and Livermore Falls, Holderness on the Pemigewassett River.

There's about eighty different NH state parks, historic sites, beaches, natural areas, homestead, gorge, falls, campgrounds, and tramway but only the state parks are free to NH seniors, age 65+. For example, Livermore Falls costs $5/car, regardless your age.

Squam Lake does not have a N.H. State Park but it does have the 169-acre ... http://www.squamlakes.org/sites/defa...rail_guide.pdf .... Chamberlain-Reynolds Memorial Forest in Holderness on Big Squam Lake that is free to everyone and is definitely worth a visit .... http://www.alltrails.com/trail/us/ne...emorial-forest
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Old 05-18-2024, 09:34 PM   #29
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In 1969 I took an oath. (several times after that too.) In 1970 I started active duty. In 1975, I came back to NH. Another five years in the reserves. More world wide travel. You non-veterans posting here have no idea what "Live Free or Die" really means. You should all be ashamed of yourselves. In the meantime, take your fingers off the keyboard and do something for your community, state and your country. Your apologies for thoughtless posts are accepted. Just hit the "Thanks" button.
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Old 05-19-2024, 03:32 AM   #30
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With reference to enlisting for military service during the U.S. war with North Viet Nam; "The first Vietnam draft lottery was held on December 1, 1969, at Selective Service National Headquarters in Washington, D.C.. The lottery determined the order of call for induction during 1970 for men born between January 1, 1944, and December 31, 1950. The lottery was the first time a lottery system had been used to select men for military service in the US since 1942.

The second lottery drawing took place on July 1, 1969 and was for men born in the year, 1951. I lucked out, big-time, when I learned my number was 303. ....

One's draft lottery number could be any number from one to 365, and for this July 1, 1970 lottery, it was reported that any number above 180 was considered very unlikely to get drafted.
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Old 05-19-2024, 07:13 AM   #31
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I never won anything in my life, except the Ď71 draft lottery - I was 363!


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Old 05-19-2024, 07:52 AM   #32
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In 1969 I took an oath. (several times after that too.) In 1970 I started active duty. In 1975, I came back to NH. Another five years in the reserves. More world wide travel. You non-veterans posting here have no idea what "Live Free or Die" really means. You should all be ashamed of yourselves. In the meantime, take your fingers off the keyboard and do something for your community, state and your country. Your apologies for thoughtless posts are accepted. Just hit the "Thanks" button.
I do thank you for your service. My active duty was a bit earlier, 1966-1970.

I think that many are not aware of the origin of the "Live Free or Die" phrase. This is one write-up on the subject:
https://www.eagletimes.com/opinion/w...2a9e246ea.html

A cold war phrase was "Better Dead than Red"

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Old 05-19-2024, 11:38 AM   #33
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All you guys who served in Vietnam got a really rotten deal. I think it is awful the way you were treated. I am glad that has changed. Thank you so much to all you wonderful Vietnam Vets!!
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Old 05-19-2024, 12:04 PM   #34
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Default Gen. John Stark Day

As noted earlier, Bob Lawton (Funspot) was responsible for LFOD becoming the state motto. His son, David, was also a state rep and in 2003 filed HB753 declaring the 4th Monday in April to be Gen. John Stark Day. (This replaced "Fast Day".) It was later moved to the second Monday to better align with school calendars. The bill text outlines some of Gen. Stark's accomplishments.
https://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/leg...03/HB0753.html
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Old 05-19-2024, 02:46 PM   #35
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Wasn't Lawton only a teenager in 1945?
That was when NH adopted ''Live Free or Die'' as the State Motto.

Bob was instrumental into its addition on our license plate... but not its enactment as our State Motto.

Cobalt made reference to the surround States' various mottoes.
Those States also do not use their motto as a marketing tagline for tourism.

Maine, whom we consider a primary competitor for tourism dollars (for FY2022 they brought in about $1.4 Billion more than NH... about 19/20% more) has the State motto ''Dirigo'', but has changed it tourism slogan over the years and never include any reference to its State's motto. Personally, I don't like ''Welcome Home''; but not being a Maine taxpayer... and not their target market... I guess it really doesn't matter.
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Old 05-19-2024, 05:32 PM   #36
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Because as a tourism slogan, bringing up the fact that a tourist may DIE is not really great marketing.

The current... Discover your New

A little different, and seems to be creating really strong y-over-y and ROI results.
I don’t think that’s the reason. Any potential tourist dumb enough to think they might die because of the state motto is likely also too dumb to know how to get here.


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Old 05-19-2024, 08:00 PM   #37
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The ''Live Free'' is not the State Motto.
It was a slogan for a tourism campaign.

The ''Live Free'' campaign initially saw growth in the number when the ''or Die'' was dropped; so it was considered successful.

The current ''Discover the New'' at least for the one year they have numbers shows some real promise.
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Old 05-19-2024, 09:44 PM   #38
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Discover the New sounds weird. I suppose itís better than We Apologize in Advance, which a 62-member committee in Massachusetts is considering.


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Old 05-20-2024, 08:15 AM   #39
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With reference to enlisting for military service during the U.S. war with North Viet Nam; "The first Vietnam draft lottery was held on December 1, 1969, at Selective Service National Headquarters in Washington, D.C.. The lottery determined the order of call for induction during 1970 for men born between January 1, 1944, and December 31, 1950. The lottery was the first time a lottery system had been used to select men for military service in the US since 1942.

The second lottery drawing took place on July 1, 1969 and was for men born in the year, 1951. I lucked out, big-time, when I learned my number was 303. ....

One's draft lottery number could be any number from one to 365, and for this July 1, 1970 lottery, it was reported that any number above 180 was considered very unlikely to get drafted.

That's interesting how according to your account the second Vietnam draft lottery (July 1, 1969) actually took place before the first one (December 1, 1969).
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Old 05-20-2024, 09:03 AM   #40
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That's interesting how according to your account the second Vietnam draft lottery (July 1, 1969) actually took place before the first one (December 1, 1969).
Sorry, that's an error on my part, my draft number happened on July 1, 1970 .... 54-years ago. I can remember getting up at 5-am and walking down to buy a Boston Herald from a vending box for 10-cents to see my draft number and read the latest from Howie Carr.
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Old 05-20-2024, 09:10 AM   #41
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That's interesting how according to your account the second Vietnam draft lottery (July 1, 1969) actually took place before the first one (December 1, 1969).
My future husband was in the 1971 Vietnam draft. His number was 33 and we knew that he would eventually be drafted. We were nervous and confused and we werenít sure what we should do. He was in college at that time and I think the college deferment had ended. He was sent a letter telling him to get ready to be drafted or if he signed something that day and sent it back, he would be skipped over. And thatís what happened. Scary times for sure!
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Old 05-20-2024, 09:24 AM   #42
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Military draft for Vietnam "conflict"

Conscription

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...0Vietnam%20War.

Lottery

https://www.sss.gov/history-and-reco...nam-lotteries/

Enlisted; if going to be drafted, might as well choose a training
Myself, after training: 189th AHC at base camp Holloway; Pleiku May 1967- Feb.1969
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Old 05-20-2024, 10:32 AM   #43
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Discover the New sounds weird. I suppose itís better than We Apologize in Advance, which a 62-member committee in Massachusetts is considering.


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It is a lot like the old Maine slogan ''Discover your Maine Thing" - which I also thought was lame.

The best one from Maine in my opinion was ''The Way Life Should Be''.

It is why I have reservations about whether the new NH slogan is doing the lifting or something else. I guess only time will tell for certain.
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Old 05-20-2024, 10:35 AM   #44
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Thank you to all who serve and have served.

I am disheartened (pissed) about the slow removal of "or die." It is yet another little example of people - we know which people - chipping away at what made the USA the USA.

So many people lived out the motto - died so we could live free. And they did not do it so that years later a bunch of MEOWS could start to remove it for fear of being scary or offensive or deter some wussified voters and boaters!

God bless America and here's to those who stuck and stick together to protect her!!
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Old 05-20-2024, 11:14 AM   #45
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Thank you to all who serve and have served.

I am disheartened (pissed) about the slow removal of "or die." It is yet another little example of people - we know which people - chipping away at what made the USA the USA.

So many people lived out the motto - died so we could live free. And they did not do it so that years later a bunch of MEOWS could start to remove it for fear of being scary or offensive or deter some wussified voters and boaters!

God bless America and here's to those who stuck and stick together to protect her!!
I agree regarding the lamentable slow chipping away. They also changed Superman’s motto to Truth, Justice, and a Better Tomorrow. How putrid.


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Old 05-20-2024, 11:29 AM   #46
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That's interesting how according to your account the second Vietnam draft lottery (July 1, 1969) actually took place before the first one (December 1, 1969).
At the time I was day-dreaming to enlist in the Marines so's I could be a point man on a Marine squad that moved through the muddy jungle watching for a Charlie sniper, hidden up a tree, who waited till close before firing ..... pop-pop-pop .... the sound of an AK-47 ...... I wanted to be the point man who pushed an M-16 up over the ground, through the jungle growth, waiting to meet Charlie.

My Dad was a Lieutenant Commander at the time, a Navy dentist, 1942-1975, who told me about 10,000-times to stay the hell out of the military with this Vietnam War going on, unless I wanted to come back home inside a box.

He would say, "do you like being alive, do you want to get shot, do you want to come back home in a black metal box, dead and disfigured, and then get buried. So, just stay the hell out of the military because as a private, that's what can happen."

Lucking out with a draft lottery-303 put a fast rest to my thoughts on enlisting!

My Dad fought cavities for the U.S. Navy, 42-46 and Navy Reserve, 46-75, mostly doing dental inspections but every once in a blue moon, he would be especially nervous because he was working on an Admiral's mouth, the next duty day.
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Old 05-20-2024, 12:21 PM   #47
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Our Motto has not changed...
Just the marketing slogan.

It is ghastly... I mean if this keeps up, there would be so much revenue from tourism that we would need to lower taxes. Egads!!!
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Old 05-20-2024, 03:14 PM   #48
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Default FLL's draft calendar

FLL's draft calendar: It was the best of times, it was the worst of times.
I signed up June 10, 1969, expecting to report a few weeks later. In July the Navy called and said "we're slowing things down". Pick a Tuesday between now and next June. I picked March 10, (after ski season, before ice-out) and showed up with 53 other volunteers. In May 1970, 40 of us were called out and given notice that "you can go home. The Navy doesn't need you anymore. We'll send a letter to your draft boards, so you won't be drafted." Ironically, at the time, us dozen survivors felt we were lucky, and the guys who went home were unlucky. (Falcon 135--XP3NFO)
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Old 06-01-2024, 08:59 PM   #49
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Arrow The Pine Tree Riot of 1777 Preceeded Lexington and Concord...

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It is, or at least was, a SHARPLY political statement dating from the Revolutionary War, asserting that we would sooner die than be subjugated by the British. Since we all agree with this today, and even the British are good with the idea, it's kind of lost its edge.
NH decided to cut their own pine trees, rather than submit to the Crown's s "Broad Arrow" mark on the best NH White Pine trees.

That led to the "Pine Tree Riot"

"In New Hampshire enforcement led to acts of forceful protest against British policies. It occurred almost two years prior to the more well-known Boston Tea Party protest and three years before open hostilities began at the Battles of Lexington and Concord."
https://www.nelma.org/the-tree-that-...onial-history/

News to me...

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Old 06-01-2024, 10:14 PM   #50
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1777 ?

Typo right?
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Old 06-01-2024, 10:38 PM   #51
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Arrow An Appeal to Heaven--Even had a Flag!

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1777 ?

Typo right?
Correction(s)...1772

...and 1734...!

https://www.wmur.com/article/pine-tr...ution/43596199
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Old 06-02-2024, 10:52 AM   #52
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HB1361 created a bit more liberty... but we have a way to go on the property front.
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