St. Helena's allegedly about to be sold...

[MeredithMan]

As reported in today's Citizen, copied in below. Anyone have any scoop on what the property might be used for? I can remember going there as a kid in the summer in the mid 70's....the place was always packed, with multiple masses on Saturday afternoons and Sunday mornings. It now joins the pantheon of restaurants, summer camps, and other area attractions that have bitten the dust....

LACONIA — After a year on the market, St. Helena’s Mission Church in The Weirs is about to be sold.

Agent Christian Stallkamp of commercial real estate firm CBRE/Portsmouth said Tuesday that a potential buyer for the church and surrounding property has stepped forward, but wishes to remain anonymous until the purchase has been completed.

“We’re working toward a closing and that should happen sometime this month,” Stallkamp said. “It’s a great property and a great opportunity for the potential buyer.”

The asking price for the church and property is $349,000 and it was put on the market by the Diocese of Manchester in December 2013.

Stallkamp said he would not disclose the sales price for the church and property until the transaction closes.

St. Helena’s Mission Church offered summer Mass for local residents and tourists visiting the Lakes Region. It has 5,200 square feet of floor space with a basement and sits on three acres of land at 326 Endicott St. East less than a mile from Weirs Beach.

Prior to the construction of St. Helena’s, Sunday Masses were celebrated at Irwin’s Winnipesaukee Gardens in The Weirs. Dances were held there on Saturday nights and then hundreds attended Mass the following morning.

A local couple who owned The Weirs Hotel, Helene and Ralph Poudrier, were active in promoting The Weirs and Lake Winnipesaukee as a vacation spot and donated the land for St. Helena’s to be used as a place of worship for vacationers and local residents.

Bishop Matthew F. Brady of the Diocese of Manchester, a friend of the Poudrier family, officially dedicated St. Helena's on July 10, 1955 and it was named in honor of Helene Poudrier’s patron saint, St. Helena.

In 2010, the Diocese of Manchester merged the former Our Lady of the Lakes Church in Lakeport and St. Helena Mission Church with St. André Bessette Parish of Laconia.

Our Lady of the Lakes was closed in 2012 and the church and property were sold to the Evangelical Baptist Church.

Rev. Marc Drouin of St. André Bessette Parish was the final pastor at St. Helena and he said that at the end, the church was only celebrating two Masses there during summer weekends.

“We calculated it was only in use for about 24 hours each year,” Drouin said. “The building committee looked at substantial financial resources required for building maintenance and declining attendance. All of those factors, combined with the fact that St. André Bessette Parish’s two Catholic churches — Sacred Heart and St. Joseph’s — are within six or seven miles of St. Helena, the recommendation was made to close the church.”

A petition was formally made in April 2013 to Bishop Peter A. Libasci to close St. Helena's and a formal closing ceremony was held there in September 2013.

The pews have been sold to another Catholic church in New Hampshire and all ecclesiastical goods and objects of artistic or historical value belonging to St. Helena’s were transferred to St. André Bessette Parish following its closing ceremony.

“There are always mixed feelings involved in the sale of a church. St. Helena was our last remaining property from Our Lady of the Lakes Parish, which was merged into Saint Andre Bessette Parish in 2010, so I know for the parishioners this is sad news," Drouin said. "On the other hand, there is a sense of relief that we are able to close that chapter and move on, and of course we are glad that we were able to sell the building in this market.

"As we move forward as the new parish of Saint André Bessette, we do so with joyful hope, trusting that the Lord is with us,” he said.

Drouin said proceeds from the sale of St. Helena's will go to the St. André Bessette Parish operating fund.

The sale of St. Helena's follows a recent trend of churches being put up for sale in Laconia.

The old Evangelical Baptist Church at 12 Veterans Square was sold in 2013 to David Kennedy of Epping, who is turning it into an Irish-themed pub and eatery called The Holy Grail of the Lakes.

St. James Episcopal Church at 876 North Main St. was sold the Boys & Girls Club of the Lakes Region for $2.4 million in 2012.

[Steveo]

Went to St Helena's in the 60's first as vacation people. When my father moved us up in '68 St Helena's was pressuring locals to "join" the church, in other words sign up for donation envelopes so the church could keep an eye on your contributions. When my father (and others) refused the priest said that he would not give last rights to anyone that didn't sign up. My father pulled us out of the church and haven't been back since.

[Donzi Minx]

The cafeteria catholic that I am... I wonder if that priest got advice from our
wonderful Bernard Law.
Remember St. Helena's well and did go there for Saturday and Sunday Mass while we were in West Alton.
No. 2 son demonstrated (hilariously) that you have to pay attention after your receive communion and negotiate back to your pew. The structural butress that supported the roof flowed down the wall from the ceiling and anchored on both side aisles with increased width protruding into the aisle. Piously head down, hands folded he walked into that beam head first, and I thought he would loose consciousness. My sick Irish humor prevailing, once I knew he was OK, I had all I could do to stay upright in the pew.
We still have a good laugh when telling "Lake" stories around the table when Kyle made St. Helena's structurally unsound!

[PaugusBayFireFighter]

Heard a rumor during the summer that someone was looking to buy it and turn it into a restaurant, I believe a steakhouse.
They were going to name it "The Last Supper".

[upthesaukee]

Originally Posted by PaugusBayFireFighter

Heard a rumor during the summer that someone was looking to buy it and turn it into a restaurant, I believe a steakhouse.
They were going to name it "The Last Supper".

.....are you ready for it????? from: Mass!

[RLW]

Originally Posted by upthesaukee

.....are you ready for it????? from: Mass!

What type of Mass? Mass or MA..

[smith point boater]

According to Laconia Daily Sun the deal closed yesterday

[MeredithMan]

Sale price quoted in The Sun was $185K. Builder was quoted as saying he has no specific plans for the property...maybe homes, maybe something else.

Hopefully it will not turn into another vacant lot that is so common in The Weirs.

[upthesaukee]

Originally Posted by RLW

What type of Mass? Mass or MA..

Not MA. goes along with the Last Supper theme.

[mcdude]

Laconia Daily Sun

St. Helena Mission Church at Weirs sold to local company for $185,000
LACONIA — REM Real Estate, LLC purchased St. Helena Mission Church at the Weirs from the Roman Catholic Diocese of Manchester in a transaction that closed yesterday.
The church, which has been on the market for about a year, sold for $185,000, well below the listed price of $349,000. Proceeds from the sale will be applied to the operating fund of St. Andre Bessette Parish in Laconia.
Peter Morrissette of Gilford, one of the partners of REM Real Estate, LLC said that there are no specific plans for the property, but the partners intend to explore the potential for the residential development of the property. He said that the zoning ordinance would all for six single family homes or 20 condominium units to be built on the 3.38-acre lot. Any development and construction on the site will be undertaken by N.W. Morrissette & Sons, whose president is Kevin Morrissette, a well known and respected local builder.
The church on Endicott Street South (Rte. 11-B) was constructed as a mission church of Our Lady of the Lakes Parish in Lakeport on land donated for the purpose by Ralph and Helene Poudrier, the owners of The Weirs Hotel, and dedicated in July, 1955. In the 1960s, 1970s and 1980s mass was held at St. Helena four or five times in the course of a weekend as vacationing families and seasonal residents filled its pews. In those days, Reverend Marc Drouin said, there were between seven and nine priests spread among the three parishes in the city and they were assisted in the summer months by the Benedictines from St. Anselm's College in Manchester.
Drouin said that regular attendance began falling in the 1990s, particularly at St. Helena, as the conversion of motels and cottages to condominiums slowed the turnover of summer visitors and increased the number of seasonal residents, many of whom worshiped at the larger churches in the city. As the number of parishioners dwindled in 2010 the three parishes ultimately became on, which today is served by two priests, and a year later the Our Lady of the Lakes church building was offered for sale.
Drouin explained that in 2012 the pastoral and finance council undertook a study of St. Helena and found it in need of repairs estimated to cost about $200,000. He said that the council concluded that what he called "a 24-hour church," where mass was held on Saturdays and Sundays for 12 weeks between Memorial Day and Labor Day, did not warrant the investment. The parish petitioned the bishop to sell the property.

[Misha888]

yeah! The area was lacking residential development.

Originally Posted by mcdude

Laconia Daily Sun

[MeredithMan]

....Front page of today's Laconia Daily Sun shows St. Helena's being demolished. Builder states that he will be putting in "modular homes", sometimes a euphemism for trailer park. He also states, (I'm paraphrasing), that he will put as many homes on the lot as possible.

Awesome....a large, flat tract of land, (aka, parking lot), without a single tree, jam packed with "modular homes". Hopefully he will at least take up the asphalt parking lot and put some grass in there. Sounds very attractive....NOT

[BroadHopper]

Claims he is a premier builder in the Lakes Region. If you have seen his works, he is far from what I called a reputable builder. I think this is the reason he decided to put in modular homes. Most modular homes manufactured today are better built than stick homes.

[Wreckn1]

Originally Posted by MeredithMan

....Front page of today's Laconia Daily Sun shows St. Helena's being demolished. Builder states that he will be putting in "modular homes", sometimes a euphemism for trailer park. He also states, (I'm paraphrasing), that he will put as many homes on the lot as possible.

Awesome....a large, flat tract of land, (aka, parking lot), without a single tree, jam packed with "modular homes". Hopefully he will at least take up the asphalt parking lot and put some grass in there. Sounds very attractive....NOT

I'm sorry but this is ridiculous. I have heard nothing but negative comments about this. The owners wanted keep the property and use it for storage but was denied. When asked what he should do with it NO ONE responded to him. If people have such a problem when things like this occur maybe they should buy it first. Just a thought. His land his building his choice.

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by MeredithMan

....Front page of today's Laconia Daily Sun shows St. Helena's being demolished. Builder states that he will be putting in "modular homes", sometimes a euphemism for trailer park. He also states, (I'm paraphrasing), that he will put as many homes on the lot as possible.

Awesome....a large, flat tract of land, (aka, parking lot), without a single tree, jam packed with "modular homes". Hopefully he will at least take up the asphalt parking lot and put some grass in there. Sounds very attractive....NOT

At least the developer's planned use of the property will be in line with what the Weirs has become. Sad. But I don't see the Weirs rebounding anytime soon. In fact, I fear it will get much, much worse. Look on the bright side, alternative uses such as a halfway house, a drug rehab clinic or a Syrian refugee camp weren't selected.

[Pine Island Guy]

being an old timer this topic reminds me of the lyrics of this 1970 song... wow, was it really 45 years ago?!?!?!

They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot
With a pink hotel, a boutique
And a swinging hot spot
Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you've got
Till it's gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot

Happy Thanksgiving everyone, it is beautiful out on the Lake! -PIG

[MeredithMan]

Originally Posted by Wreckn1

I'm sorry but this is ridiculous. I have heard nothing but negative comments about this. The owners wanted keep the property and use it for storage but was denied. When asked what he should do with it NO ONE responded to him. If people have such a problem when things like this occur maybe they should buy it first. Just a thought. His land his building his choice.

My comments are not ridiculous, and here's why:

1) People that either live in or make use of The Weirs/Laconia are really tired of the vacant lots, crappy projects, and overall run-down, honkytonk feel to the area. Is the answer for everyone who is dissatisfied to buy the land as you suggest? No, it is not. It is to voice their opinions when these things come up. That is why the Pendleton Road neighbors shot down the first Storage Facility proposal for the church.

2) For about 40 years, my family had a vaca home a short walking distance from St Helena's. As kids, we would ride bikes and play baseball in the church parking lot. We would go to Mass there on weekends. I realize change is inevitable, and we no longer have a home there, but I still feel a strong connection to that neighborhood and am compelled to voice my opinion.

3) Your comment that it is "his land, his choice" is true, as long as the abutters are not vehemently opposed and no zoning laws are violated. Knowing some of the folks in that neighborhood as I do, my guess is that they will be vocal about this plan as well.

4) If the developer's plans are to make this an attractive cluster of affordable homes with grass, trees, etc, then I have no issue. If the plan, however, is to stuff as many double-wides into the old church parking lot as humanly possible, many people will take serious issue with this.

[Merrymeeting]

A bit more generic on the topic, but for those who would oppose developments like this one, there are much more effective ways to oppose/direct them than venting on websites like this one.

Go to the meetings! Planning Board, Conservation Commission, Selectmen, etc. Yes, even if you are just a taxpayer, being there makes a difference.

More times than not, the critical decisions are made (design decisions, commitments, agreements, etc) at these meetings. By the time most hear of them, these decisions cannot be reversed.

It's becoming easier to do this as most municipalities videotape (or even stream) their meetings. Play them in the background while you are on that boring conference call and be even more bored! But you will know what is happening when you can make a difference.

[TiltonBB]

Don't lose sight of the fact that whatever is built there will have to be pleasing enough to the potential buyers to be marketable.

Sure, you can put in unsightly, poorly built homes but if you want to sell them they will have to have some appeal, and that includes visual appeal.

The developer is a business man and I highly doubt he will build somethng with no "curb appeal" because it will be in his best interest to have a project that generates maximum demand. If not, they will be slow to sell.

Also, the Laconia Planning Department has been making efforts to improve the city and I assume that every effort will be made to push this project in a direction that it has a positive impact on the area.

[Lincoln Park]

I have no dog in this fight, but I just want to add a moment of reflection. The razing, regardless of individual position, is a poignant moment for Catholics who grew up spending their summer Sunday mornings at St. Helena's. My mother attended for nearly fifty years. That's a lot of memories. I have fond memories of the joy my father took letting his "whiskers" grow during vacation only to shave on Sunday morning for our weekly trip to Saint Helenas. And the packing of "church clothes" amidst the bathing suits. I'm sure others on the forum can relate...

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

Don't lose sight of the fact that whatever is built there will have to be pleasing enough to the potential buyers to be marketable.

Sure, you can put in unsightly, poorly built homes but if you want to sell them they will have to have some appeal, and that includes visual appeal.

The developer is a business man and I highly doubt he will build somethng with no "curb appeal" because it will be in his best interest to have a project that generates maximum demand. If not, they will be slow to sell.

Also, the Laconia Planning Department has been making efforts to improve the city and I assume that every effort will be made to push this project in a direction that it has a positive impact on the area.

True. However, he only paid $185,000 for the land so the appeal doesn't have to be too great to make a nice return on his money. The homes may very appealing to lower end buyers but highly unappealing to you.

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by Lincoln Park

I have no dog in this fight, but I just want to add a moment of reflection. The razing, regardless of individual position, is a poignant moment for Catholics who grew up spending their summer Sunday mornings at St. Helena's. My mother attended for nearly fifty years. That's a lot of memories. I have fond memories of the joy my father took letting his "whiskers" grow during vacation only to shave on Sunday morning for our weekly trip to Saint Helenas. And the packing of "church clothes" amidst the bathing suits. I'm sure others on the forum can relate...

Yes I can relate. I have many fond memories going to St Celia's in Wolfeboro as a kid during the summer. I imagine that turning that church into part of Brewster Academy is less painful than seeing St. Helena's razed and a trailer park put in its place but it is the same general feeling. The Catholic Church makes Laconia City Government look like a well oiled machine.

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by secondcurve

True. However, he only paid $185,000 for the land so the appeal doesn't have to be too great to make a nice return on his money. The homes may very appealing to lower end buyers but highly unappealing to you.

Yes, he "only paid $185,000" for the property. But, that is the most anyone in the entire United States would pay for that property. Bear in mind that it was on the market for a very long time and that is the most that they could get. If someone willing to pay more had come along they would have taken it.

It is sort of like when you "win" a bid on Ebay. You just paid more than anyone else in the country would have paid for the same thing.

[Happy Gourmand]

Originally Posted by secondcurve

Yes I can relate. I have many fond memories going to St Celia's in Wolfeboro as a kid during the summer. I imagine that turning that church into part of Brewster Academy is less painful than seeing St. Helena's razed and a trailer park put in its place but it is the same general feeling. The Catholic Church makes Laconia City Government look like a well oiled machine.

It will probably cost as much to demo the church as was the cost of the property. ($185K). I don't know how many lots will be able to be carved out but any homes that are built will have to at least meet any local building codes. Before we bash this project in advance, I think it would make sense to inquire as to exactly what is being proposed to be built. Wouldn't that information be available from the City of Laconia?

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

Yes, he "only paid $185,000" for the property. But, that is the most anyone in the entire United States would pay for that property. Bear in mind that it was on the market for a very long time and that is the most that they could get. If someone willing to pay more had come along they would have taken it.

It is sort of like when you "win" a bid on Ebay. You just paid more than anyone else in the country would have paid for the same thing.

An interesting slant. So anytime I but a stock or a piece of real estate I have "paid more than anyone else in the country". You are evidently a big believer in the efficient market theory.

[fatlazyless]

"Clerical error led to demolishing of former church" article in today's Laconia Citizen

"We do not have many buildings being demolished." "So, for this to happen without review is greatly upsetting."

.....unless of course, you are one of the developers, then it is probably a very happy city hall boo-boo ...... boo-hoo.....so sad....the church building is all gone!

Boy oh boy, that sounds like a major blunder, and one that is uncorrectible ..... and the developers must be very happy that this error took place.....because their plans can now move forward....as opposed to wait for the Laconia Heritage Commission to make a decision ..... sometimes, you just get lucky! ...... and sometimes you just get dumb lucky! ...... but usually, people make their own luck!

[Lakeboater]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

"Clerical error led to demolishing of former church"

http://www.thecitizen.villagesoup.co...church/1446441

Boy oh boy, that sounds like a major blunder, and one that is uncorrectible ..... and the developers must be very happy that this error took place.....because their plans can now move forward....as opposed to waiting for the Laconia Heritage Commission to make a decision.

This link doesn't seem to work.

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by Lakeboater

This link doesn't seem to work.

I fixed it by eliminating the link.

[Lakeboater]

So what was the error?

[upthesaukee]

Originally Posted by Lakeboater

So what was the error?

According to the article, the "card" in the code enforcement office had the date built as being 1984 (I think that was the year ), which would make the building less than 50 years old. Buildings over 50 years old require a more detailed permitting process. Church built in the 1950's and should have been subject to the more detailed process. Error was discovered after the building had been demolished.

I live here... I am always Upthesaukee.

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by secondcurve

An interesting slant. So anytime I but a stock or a piece of real estate I have "paid more than anyone else in the country". You are evidently a big believer in the efficient market theory.

No.

When you buy a stock there are many shares available and you are one of many buyers. There was only one church and it was publicly and widely marketed for over a year. No one stepped up to purchase it, or offered more than the buyer, or they would be the new owner. Therefore, he paid more than anyone else was willing to pay.

When a single item is advertised for bid on EBay the same thing applies. The person who offers the most money gets it. To me, that means that you have paid more than anyone else was willing to pay.

Just one man's opinion.

[fatlazyless]

According to the article in yesterday's CITIZEN, any Laconia structure or building more than 50-years old seeking a demolition permit needs to be reviewed by the Laconia Heritage Commission. Saint Helena's Church was supposedly constructed in 1955, but was listed as 1982 on its Building Dept info card, an error, which led to Laconia issuing a demolition permit without Heritage Commission review.

Oh well, a church is all about the people, and the Saint Helena's church building was particularly unattractive, and judging by the front exterior photo looks el cheapo construction, surrounded by a totally black asphalt parking lot with no trees or landscaping, so it is goodbye old church building, and hello new residential development.
.......

"I did everything I could to save the church," ....quote from the developer in today's CITIZEN in a second follow up article. " But I fixed the problem with it by putting the church in the dumpster."

[thinkxingu]

Something smells rotten in Denmark. I know nothing of the value of this church, but 1. How does a 60-year-old building get confused with a 30-year-old one and 2. Who's working in the office that makes this mistake? I've only lived in my town for a few years but sure as heck know which buildings are older than others!

Sent from my XT1528 using Tapatalk

[ronc4424]

Photo by: ED PIERCE/CITIZENTHE FORMER ST. HELENA CATHOLIC CHURCH in The Weirs was demolished on Monday, however a clerical error led to the city of Laconia issuing a permit for its demolition. A property card in the city assessor's office listed the church as built in 1982, avoiding a permit review, but in fact, the church was constructed in 1955.
LACONIA — The former St. Helena Catholic Church in The Weirs has met the wrecking ball's school of hard knocks, but the authorization for its destruction came about as the result of a clerical error.

The church was demolished earlier this week, after a demolition permit was issued by Laconia's Code Enforcement Office for the building's owners, Peter and Kevin Morrissette, who plan to build modular homes on the site.

However, following an ordinance change approved by the Laconia City Council in September regarding the Heritage Commission, structures at least 50 years old with more than 700-square-feet of floor area qualifying as "significant buildings" must go through a more detailed process before they can be demolished.

The ordinance requires a process be set in motion when applications are made to demolish buildings.

If the code enforcement officer determines that the building qualifies as "significant," the demolition permit must be reviewed by the Heritage Commission at its next regularly scheduled meeting before the building can be demolished.

In the case of the former St. Helena Catholic Church, the process never happened because the city's code enforcement officer received erroneous information.

Laconia City Manager Scott Myers said that once the application was made by Morrissette to demolish the church, the code enforcement officer pulled the property card from the city assessor's office to check when the building was constructed.

"The card said 1982," Myers said. "That was under the 50-year mark so the demolition permit was issued."

However, the property card kept by the city in the assessor's office was wrong, as the former St. Helena Catholic Church was built in 1955, some 60 years ago.

"I am upset because I had to read about the church being demolished in the newspaper," said Pam Clark, Laconia Heritage Commission chair. "It's disheartening that the assessor's office had the wrong information on the property card. If anyone would have asked, we would have told them that the church was built in 1955, not 1982."

She said the new ordinance was crafted to avoid situations like this from happening.

"We do not have that many buildings being demolished," Clark said. "So for this to happen without review is greatly upsetting."

Clark said she intends to speak to Myers about the demolition process and make sure lines of communication between city staff and members of the Heritage Commission are open.

"This should not have happened, but we can't go back at this point," she said. "I hope this leads to better communication when things like this come up in the future."

The former church site was originally listed for sale by the Diocese of Manchester in December 2013 and had 5,200 square feet of floor space with a basement and 3.38 acres of land at 326 Endicott St. East, less than a mile from Weirs Beach.

PEM Real Estate, LLC purchased the property for $185,000 from the Diocese of Manchester in December 2014 and PEM partners Peter and Kevin Morrissette originally intended to convert the property to a facility housing long-term watercraft storage and an indoor storage site.

A proposal by the Morrissettes to ask for a Planning Board hearing requesting a zoning change allowing indoor boat storage at the former site of the church was rejected by a 4-2 vote of the Laconia City Council in February.

In its heyday, St. Helena Mission Church offered summer Masses for local residents and tourists visiting the Lakes Region. Prior to its construction, Sunday Masses were celebrated at Irwin’s Winnipesaukee Gardens in The Weirs.

A local couple who owned The Weirs Hotel, Helene and Ralph Poudrier, were active in promoting The Weirs and Lake Winnipesaukee as a vacation spot and donated the land for St. Helena’s to be used as a place of worship for vacationers and local residents.

Bishop Matthew F. Brady of the Diocese of Manchester, a friend of the Poudrier family, officially dedicated St. Helena on July 10, 1955 and it was named in honor of Helene Poudrier’s patron saint, St. Helena.

In 2010, the Diocese of Manchester merged the former Our Lady of the Lakes Church in Lakeport and St. Helena Mission Church with St. André Bessette Parish of Laconia and St. Helena was closed for good.

[Wreckn1]

Even if it had been the correct date on the tax card, which is an assessing dept problem, don't believe me go right to vision appraisal and look the tax card up, going before the heritage Commission would not have prevented the outcome of demolition. Only thing it would have done is delayed the process that's it, they cannot prevent demo. Building is done and gone. As with anything time takes it toll. Time for redevelopment.

[secondcurve]

Originally Posted by Wreckn1

Even if it had been the correct date on the tax card, which is an assessing dept problem, don't believe me go right to vision appraisal and look the tax card up, going before the heritage Commission would not have prevented the outcome of demolition. Only thing it would have done is delayed the process that's it, they cannot prevent demo. Building is done and gone. As with anything time takes it toll. Time for redevelopment.

From a guy who makes his living knocking things down: