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Old 08-07-2010, 08:03 PM   #1
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Default 100 MPH Through No Wake Zone?

Saturday afternoon I was boating around Governors Island and saw a red Cigarrete boat with yellow trim being worked on. Engine compartment open. Around 7PM a boat, I think the same one, went around Bear Island. The boat was going so fast through the NWZ that I had a hard time turning my head fast enough to keep it in sight. I have never seen a boat go anywhere near that fast.

About a minute later a Marine Patrol boat came around the corner full speed then he slowed down. I turned up my scanner and heard the dispatcher ask how the chase was going. The officer replied "I can't touch him, he is going twice my speed". Then "I'll go to his house on Governors and wait for him".

Anybody know how this ended?
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Old 08-08-2010, 06:01 AM   #2
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No idea, but was it an actual Cigarette boat? I haven't seen many of those on this lake.
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Old 08-08-2010, 07:12 AM   #3
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My neighbor has one...not on Governors
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Old 08-08-2010, 07:23 AM   #4
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As BI has openly stated in the past, the Bear Island NWZ by his place has been a problem for some time. Nice to see the MP was on top of this rather, extreme violation. Clearly and example of one guy that leaves people with a very bad opinion. Not to mention, a rather dangerous place to be operating like that.

People like that have caused problems for everyone else. Be an interesting follow-up.
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Old 08-08-2010, 07:54 AM   #5
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I received a message that it was the same boat. It comes from just north of the GI bridge. He had two MP boats waiting for him when he returned home.

At one point the Marine Patrol announced "All units be on the lookout for a red Cigarette boat traveling at high speed. Wanted for speeding, failure to stop, violating minimum safe passage and violating no wake zone".

We all had a good laugh about it here!
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Old 08-08-2010, 08:59 AM   #6
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That must have been awesome to see.

Legal question: Say the Marine Patrol shows up at the boat owner's home, who gets the ticket? You can't give a speeding ticket to an object, it goes to an operator, but how do you prove who the operator was?
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Old 08-08-2010, 09:58 AM   #7
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That is an interesting point,and one the court may find difficult to figure out. I have noticed this year going through that NWZ there seems to be alot boneheads going through. Last week I was idling through and a boat coming at WOT right at us and finally slowed down and turned 10 ft into the NWZ. I pointed to the markers and he just yelles " so what "
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Old 08-08-2010, 10:08 AM   #8
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That must have been awesome to see.

Legal question: Say the Marine Patrol shows up at the boat owner's home, who gets the ticket? You can't give a speeding ticket to an object, it goes to an operator, but how do you prove who the operator was?
Good question.

One or more of the officers that witnessed the violations would have to testify, if it went to court, that they recognized the person receiving the summonses as the operator of the boat at the time of the offenses.

It appears from the brief description of the radio traffic given by BI that this is indeed the case here.
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Old 08-08-2010, 10:49 AM   #9
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It's those flagrant violators that need to be put on record for sure. People like that are just scofflaws, and need to be dealt with. Good to see the MP's were more than prepared for him. As is the case everywhere, once you clamp down on the most flagrant offenders, everything else becomes civilized education.

I'm sure if all the MP's had to do is talk and educate the more inexperienced boaters, and help people that need it, they would have as happy a time in their jobs as everyone else wants to on the lake.

There are severe penalties most everywhere on the road, for say, going that fast through a school zone or something like that. Skip, what are the penalties for these infractions?
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Old 08-08-2010, 11:11 AM   #10
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...There are severe penalties most everywhere on the road, for say, going that fast through a school zone or something like that. Skip, what are the penalties for these infractions?...
Failing to stop for the NHMP is a misdemeanor offense.

In case like the one described by BI, the prosecutor may take the violations and roll them into another misdemeanor offense of Reckless Operation.

If the incident is as described and a conviction is obtained I would expect the violator to receive a hefty monetary fine and a loss of boat operating privileges.
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Old 08-08-2010, 11:15 AM   #11
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Maybe it's like SeaTow. If the owner is on the boat he is assumed to be in command and could have directed the pilot's actions. Under that line of arguement you could theortecally isue two tickets since the "Captain" does not have the right to issue an order resulting in a hazardous or illegal action.

Just thinking out loud.
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Old 08-08-2010, 11:25 AM   #12
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Can't tell me though that the MP wasn't having just a little fun taking on a coordinated high speed chase on the lake. They may never admit it but you know those guys eat that stuff up.

Sounds like they are going to throw the book at whoever that person was. I agree with VtSteve, finally somebody who should get caught did.

Way to get 'em MP!
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Old 08-08-2010, 05:54 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skip View Post
Failing to stop for the NHMP is a misdemeanor offense.

In case like the one described by BI, the prosecutor may take the violations and roll them into another misdemeanor offense of Reckless Operation.

If the incident is as described and a conviction is obtained I would expect the violator to receive a hefty monetary fine and a loss of boat operating privileges.
I would think failing to stop for the MP would be a night or two in jail, plus a huge fine. Loss of boating privileges is a good penalty as well. The Reckless Operation is a serious offense in a car, and if he was sober, I'd really be worried about having him back on the lake.
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Old 08-08-2010, 08:32 PM   #14
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Default Can't outrun the radio

I was talking to an MP just last week, and asked him how fast his boat could go. He said around 70, depending on fuel aboard. When I pointed out there were a few boats that he wouldn't be able to keep up with on the lake, his nonchelaunt response was:
Yeah, but they can't outrun the radio. And there's no place to hide on the lake.
So, it's clear they have plans that they execute in those situations.
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Old 08-08-2010, 08:35 PM   #15
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Default loss of boating privileges

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I would think failing to stop for the MP would be a night or two in jail, plus a huge fine. Loss of boating privileges is a good penalty as well. The Reckless Operation is a serious offense in a car, and if he was sober, I'd really be worried about having him back on the lake.
Losing his boating privileges would be great but my guess is that based on the violations he/she would continue to operate without a certificate
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Old 08-08-2010, 09:10 PM   #16
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Default 50/50

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Losing his boating privileges would be great but my guess is that based on the violations he/she would continue to operate without a certificate
As, I am guessing, half of the other boaters on the lake do!
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Old 08-08-2010, 09:37 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by This'nThat View Post
I was talking to an MP just last week, and asked him how fast his boat could go. He said around 70, depending on fuel aboard. When I pointed out there were a few boats that he wouldn't be able to keep up with on the lake, his nonchelaunt response was:
Yeah, but they can't outrun the radio. And there's no place to hide on the lake.
So, it's clear they have plans that they execute in those situations.
In the case of the Littlefield incident. They failed to find the boat. Littlefield turned himself in.

I wonder if MP today have enough manpower to fully search a lake. Lots of boat houses out there to hide in. Lots of launch ramps to watch.
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Old 08-09-2010, 06:44 AM   #18
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I wonder if MP today have enough manpower to fully search a lake. Lots of boat houses out there to hide in. Lots of launch ramps to watch.
Well, it doesn't stop the MP from dreaming about catching the BIG ONE, does it? Kinda like our local fisherman -- the big one's down there somewhere, and no place to hide!
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Old 08-09-2010, 07:05 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Bear Islander View Post
I received a message that it was the same boat. It comes from just north of the GI bridge. He had two MP boats waiting for him when he returned home.

At one point the Marine Patrol announced "All units be on the lookout for a red Cigarette boat traveling at high speed. Wanted for speeding, failure to stop, violating minimum safe passage and violating no wake zone".

We all had a good laugh about it here!
I am glad you had a good laugh. What do you find funny about this?
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Old 08-09-2010, 07:11 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by This'nThat View Post
I was talking to an MP just last week, and asked him how fast his boat could go. He said around 70, depending on fuel aboard. When I pointed out there were a few boats that he wouldn't be able to keep up with on the lake, his nonchelaunt response was:
Yeah, but they can't outrun the radio. And there's no place to hide on the lake.
So, it's clear they have plans that they execute in those situations.
What MP boat can run 70? I know the ribs the CG uses here are very heavy, about 9,000 pounds plus loaded. With big twin outboards, they hit maybe 50.
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Old 08-09-2010, 07:16 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Skip View Post
If the incident is as described and a conviction is obtained I would expect the violator to receive a hefty monetary fine and a loss of boat operating privileges.
Sadly, I doubt that would stop him from doing it again.
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Old 08-09-2010, 08:33 AM   #22
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This is very upsetting. Another case of where one bad apple ruins it for the bunch.

With the hundreds of performance boats on the lake please do not construe this as representative of the entire group. Just as we shouldn't stereotype all PWC's due to one individual that cuts you off.
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Old 08-09-2010, 09:05 AM   #23
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Default I agree.

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This is very upsetting. Another case of where one bad apple ruins it for the bunch.

With the hundreds of performance boats on the lake please do not construe this as representative of the entire group. Just as we shouldn't stereotype all PWC's due to one individual that cuts you off.
Especially when folks says these boats are going 100 mph. Contrary to popular believe. Deep Vee boats at most travel about 80 mph. To reach that speed, it requires good choppy conditions on the water so that the hull can capture air to reduce friction.

There is a 'Top Gun' school off Ft Lauderdale Fl. It's a comprehensive course in performance boat handling. Safety and Defensive driving are the number one priority lessons to be learned. I highly recommend this course to any owner of a performance boat. Many LEOs get their driving skills from this school. Including the stars form the latest 'Miami Vice' movie.
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Old 08-09-2010, 09:42 AM   #24
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BI,

I am not upset about your post in general but to throw a derived number out there like 100 mph seems a bit excessive. I am by no means defending the offender, but you are adding fuel to the fire here. The number of 100 mph boats on the lake are slim....80 mph I would believe.... and would not have a problem with... but exaggerating to 100 mph is over the top....

Now as for someone else post about the speed of Radio... yep, you may be able to out run them but you will never out run the Radio waves... I have been talking to Marine Patrol officers casually, and seen stupid moves...and because they happen in the distance and going the opposite way, seen officers Radio ahead.... to get them stopped. It works quite well...

Knowing where a boat is from or getting its bow numbers is a big help too... the MPs, are not above making house calls for real idiots.
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Old 08-09-2010, 11:05 AM   #25
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Although I agree that 80 is not 100, I am not sure that it matters. The guy in the boat was going at least 10 times the legal "speed limit" in the NWZ. That my friends is completely unacceptable. Heck, any speed above no wake speed is unacceptable.
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Old 08-09-2010, 11:16 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin View Post
BI,

I am not upset about your post in general but to throw a derived number out there like 100 mph seems a bit excessive. I am by no means defending the offender, but you are adding fuel to the fire here. The number of 100 mph boats on the lake are slim....80 mph I would believe.... and would not have a problem with... but exaggerating to 100 mph is over the top....

Now as for someone else post about the speed of Radio... yep, you may be able to out run them but you will never out run the Radio waves... I have been talking to Marine Patrol officers casually, and seen stupid moves...and because they happen in the distance and going the opposite way, seen officers Radio ahead.... to get them stopped. It works quite well...

Knowing where a boat is from or getting its bow numbers is a big help too... the MPs, are not above making house calls for real idiots.
First off, I placed a question mark after my 100 MPH reference.

Secondly you say the number of boats on the lake that can go 100 mph are "slim". I agree. However I spend my summers in a high traffic area and have been here almost 30 years. During that time I have never seen a boat go ANYWHERE NEAR THIS FAST. So it seems this boat is one of that "slim" number. I checked online and found references to Cigarette boats that go 90, 100, 115 and 120 MPH, or at least that is the claim.

Thirdly my post was intended to be more humorous than factual. I was playing on the complete absurdity of a boat going that fast through a NWZ. But it is hard sometimes to tell if the person posting is serious, angry, trying to be funny etc. I'm sorry if you misunderstood.

pm203 suggested that there is nothing funny about what happened. All I can tell you is that everyone at our place was laughing out loud and so where my neighbors on both sides. I received a call from a Bear Island neighbor and she was also laughing. A huge, beautiful, fire engine red, incredibly loud boat going by at "ludicrous speed" struck us all funny. What can I say.
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Old 08-09-2010, 11:28 AM   #27
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Hey BI, don't you have a camera pointed in that direction? I'd love to see the video of the transgression. Post it for us if you have it. Thanks.
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Old 08-09-2010, 11:49 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brk-lnt View Post
No idea, but was it an actual Cigarette boat? I haven't seen many of those on this lake.
I saw two Cigarettes yesterday within a 5 minute span; they were both going through the Weirs Channel, heading from Paugus Bay out to the main lake. This was around 2:15pm-2:30pm. One was a 38ft Top Gun; I think the other was a 35 ft. I want to say one was red with yellow accents but I can't say for sure. So yeah, there's at least two Cigarettes on the lake!
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Old 08-09-2010, 12:53 PM   #29
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What MP boat can run 70? I know the ribs the CG uses here are very heavy, about 9,000 pounds plus loaded. With big twin outboards, they hit maybe 50.
That's the quote from the MP. 70 was the top number, and only if it wasn't fully fueled. And he did admit that the boats were heavy -- he brought that up, in fact.

So, I have no reason to believe that he was lying or exagerrating. Not that it matters much -- he can catch up to most boats, and the few he can't catch -- there's radio.
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Old 08-09-2010, 01:07 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Bear Islander View Post
A huge, beautiful, fire engine red, incredibly loud boat going by at "ludicrous speed" struck us all funny. What can I say.
OMG!!! They have gone PLAID!!!
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Old 08-09-2010, 01:17 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfeboro_Baja View Post
I saw two Cigarettes yesterday within a 5 minute span; they were both going through the Weirs Channel, heading from Paugus Bay out to the main lake. This was around 2:15pm-2:30pm. One was a 38ft Top Gun; I think the other was a 35 ft. I want to say one was red with yellow accents but I can't say for sure. So yeah, there's at least two Cigarettes on the lake!
I'm reasonably sure that the "Top Gun" model with base engines (two x 700 HP) will break 100 MPH. They might be overkill, but they are not rare on Winnipesaukee and generally don't turn my head.

The most impressive and rare "modern" production boat I have ever seen on the lake was a Hinckley Picnic Boat or Talaria 40 I saw on Friday. Those are really nice, absurdly priced, and I have never seen one on the lake before. Turned my head. Those just ooze elegance and craftsmanship.
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Old 08-09-2010, 01:36 PM   #32
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I've said it before, and I'll probably say it again. What Lake Winnipesaukee needs is a five mile dragstrip on the water for say three hours per week, like on Saturdays from nine to noon, or something. Toss in some friendly commercial sponsors like Lakes Region Coca Cola, Irving Oil, the Hawaiian Suntan Bikini Team, and HK Motorsports to make it a happening event. I nominate the broads side of Rattlesnake for the location.
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Old 08-09-2010, 02:46 PM   #33
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The most impressive and rare "modern" production boat I have ever seen on the lake was a Hinckley Picnic Boat or Talaria 40 I saw on Friday. Those are really nice, absurdly priced, and I have never seen one on the lake before. Turned my head. Those just ooze elegance and craftsmanship.
I think I saw that yesterday by the 6 pack. She is a beauty.
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Old 08-09-2010, 03:54 PM   #34
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Saturday afternoon I was boating around Governors Island and saw a red Cigarrete boat with yellow trim being worked on. Engine compartment open. Around 7PM a boat, I think the same one, went around Bear Island. The boat was going so fast through the NWZ that I had a hard time turning my head fast enough to keep it in sight. I have never seen a boat go anywhere near that fast.

About a minute later a Marine Patrol boat came around the corner full speed then he slowed down. I turned up my scanner and heard the dispatcher ask how the chase was going. The officer replied "I can't touch him, he is going twice my speed". Then "I'll go to his house on Governors and wait for him".

Anybody know how this ended?
I'm about 13 or 14 cottages to your left and I saw it too. It was going insanely fast and we heard it long before we saw it. And we all knew it was going through the NWZ that fast by the sound.

The same day I saw three 28-32 ft Baja/Formula-type boats racing each other within 30 feet of each other. They went right around me (I was facing them) on the Southeast end of Bear. But the scary thing was how they overtook a tiny 14 foot old wooden boat with a small outboard. The couple in the old boat was well into their 80's just out trying to enjoy the lake.

I couldn't believe it. The wake alone from the three boats was almost enough to cause the little boat to take on water.
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Old 08-09-2010, 04:02 PM   #35
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I'd like to second fatlazyless' drag strip proposal. In particular the part about the hawaiian bikini team
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Old 08-09-2010, 07:37 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Dave R View Post
"Top Gun" model with base engines (two x 700 HP)
Wonder what the fuel consumption rate of those "base engines" is...! Guess if you love 'em that much, you got to love frequent stops to the gas dock. That's got to be at least a few Benjamin's.
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Old 08-10-2010, 03:39 AM   #37
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Default "Gunning" a Fountain...

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My neighbor has one...not on Governors
I've got one near me that has "Partytime" graphics. It's supported on a huge lift that sticks out 50-plus feet into a narrow passage. Any one piece of hardware hanging off his transom weighs more than my boat!

Both the boat and the owner live on a noisy roadway—why is it always that way?

To his credit, he warms his engines at an idle as he heads out to The Broads. (As you are supposed to warm an engine—under a "load"—not at a dock or inside a boathouse). He "turns them up" as he enters The Broads, ½-mile away, and I've yet to see him bothering others with arrogant or obnoxious behavior.

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"...BI...to throw a derived number out there like 100 mph seems a bit excessive. I am by no means defending the offender...
I'm glad you brought this up.

Earlier, I had described "being interrogated" by a dispatcher at NHMP headquarters. That occurred on the last Sunday in June. I advised the MP dispatcher regarding a 38-foot Fountain "going 100-MPH". (An explosive ½-mile spurt I suspect was "nitrous-driven").

She queried, "How do you know it was 100-MPH? Do you have r-a-d-a-r?

I replied, "No, I don't have radar, but I've been a instructor for race car drivers for 20 years: the boat is white with blue swoosh graphics towards the transom".

That reply seemed to have led to the immediate acceptance of my called-in report!
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Old 08-10-2010, 05:52 AM   #38
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Default Violations should go on drivers record

These is exactly why ALL boating violations should be handled the same way as driving violations and go against ones driving record.
You get one warning so no one can say they were unaware, and then the points go against your license.
There are way too many boaters who have enough money that they can keep repeating their offences, paying the fine and moving on with no accountability for their actions.
If boating violations racked up points on your driving record then it would hit repeat offenders where it hurts. This could translate to increased insurance rates across the board for all their toys as well as possible loss of license.

Someone asked about how much fuel the boat was burning.
It’s a 200K to 400K boat, do you seriously think gas money is a concern.
It cost me between 200 and 300 to fill mine depending on how low it gets and it’s only a 25 ft boat.
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Old 08-10-2010, 07:33 AM   #39
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Default Cigarette

There are two of them in my marina. They rarely venture out on weekends. They are out a lot before and after the season. They did participate in the Formula Poker Run last weekend. I had to work and missed the show.
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Old 08-10-2010, 09:00 AM   #40
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These is exactly why ALL boating violations should be handled the same way as driving violations and go against ones driving record.
You get one warning so no one can say they were unaware, and then the points go against your license.
There are way too many boaters who have enough money that they can keep repeating their offences, paying the fine and moving on with no accountability for their actions.
If boating violations racked up points on your driving record then it would hit repeat offenders where it hurts. This could translate to increased insurance rates across the board for all their toys as well as possible loss of license.
I do believe with the recently passed law the infraction do go on ones driving record.... However two comments on this.... If you are not a NH licensed driver I am not sure how this will transfer back to your home state... And I wonder how this will hold up if someone ends up with enough boating infractions to lose their privilege to drive an automobile in NH....
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Old 08-10-2010, 09:12 AM   #41
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A number of high performance boat owners are LEOs and Firefighters. They appreciate their overtime and detail work.
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Old 08-10-2010, 10:03 AM   #42
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Wonder what the fuel consumption rate of those "base engines" is...! Guess if you love 'em that much, you got to love frequent stops to the gas dock. That's got to be at least a few Benjamin's.
Just multiply the propshaft HP times .08 to get a reasonable estimate of gasoline used in gallons per hour. So feeding 1400 HP would require 112 gallons of gasoline per hour.

That sounds like a lot (OK, it is a lot, about 1/3 of my whole year's worth of boat gas), but at 100 MPH, it's about .9 MPG and probably better fuel economy than many of the cabin cruisers on the lake. However, unlike a lot of pleasure boats, these style boats do not have substantially better fuel efficiency at lower speeds. Fuel efficiency is actually a little worse on some at 50 MPH than it is at 100...
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Old 08-10-2010, 10:32 AM   #43
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I do believe with the recently passed law the infraction do go on ones driving record.... However two comments on this.... If you are not a NH licensed driver I am not sure how this will transfer back to your home state... And I wonder how this will hold up if someone ends up with enough boating infractions to lose their privilege to drive an automobile in NH....
In Mass you can schedule a hearing with the surcharge board and get it squashed.
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Old 08-10-2010, 11:09 AM   #44
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Default Bi might be low on speed

I'm a few houses down from the mail dock and my wife and I were sitting on the dock when he went through. He knew the lake as he took the westerly path through so his turn was not too sharp. From my dock to the red top bouy off dolly is 1.1 miles by gps. He covered that distance in about 30 seconds. We found this to be a road runner moment especially after the MP boat came around the corner almost a minute later.
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Old 08-10-2010, 11:16 AM   #45
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These is exactly why ALL boating violations should be handled the same way as driving violations and go against ones driving record.
There are way too many boaters who have enough money that they can keep repeating their offences, paying the fine and moving on with no accountability for their actions.
It’s a 200K to 400K boat, do you seriously think gas money is a concern.

Don't forget that if they have the money for a 400k boat they most likely have the money for 100K lawyer as well. Which will just end up wasting our tax dollars on a long drawn out court battle - which will most lilely end with a slap on the hands.
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Old 08-10-2010, 02:10 PM   #46
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I'm a few houses down from the mail dock and my wife and I were sitting on the dock when he went through. He knew the lake as he took the westerly path through so his turn was not too sharp. From my dock to the red top bouy off dolly is 1.1 miles by gps. He covered that distance in about 30 seconds. We found this to be a road runner moment especially after the MP boat came around the corner almost a minute later.
If your time estimate was correct then he did 1.1 miles in 30 seconds, that calculates to 133 MPH. In any event he was moving.
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Old 08-10-2010, 02:21 PM   #47
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I'm a few houses down from the mail dock and my wife and I were sitting on the dock when he went through. He knew the lake as he took the westerly path through so his turn was not too sharp. From my dock to the red top bouy off dolly is 1.1 miles by gps. He covered that distance in about 30 seconds. We found this to be a road runner moment especially after the MP boat came around the corner almost a minute later.
It's a pretty rare Cig indeed that can go that fast. But it doesn't matter. As BI has stated in the past, many go through that NWZ at planing speeds. Anything above headway speed is an infraction, speeds at planing speed are worse, anything at WOT which is more than 40 or so is egregious violations. I don;t mean that as a legal definition, just an expression of horror. At 70 mph and up in a NWZ, he should be arrested and taken to jail.
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Old 08-10-2010, 04:02 PM   #48
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Thumbs down FLL's Dragstrip....

The Lake Winni Dragstrip for the "Needers for Speeders" has been moved to off- shore Miami, Florida....no speed limits and Florida doesn't require helmets. And...those boats can operate with impunity 365!!
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Old 08-11-2010, 10:31 AM   #49
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Default Nwz

It would seem to me that a boat that size doing 100 MPH would put out less wake than the same boat doing 5-10 mph. So perhaps he was just trying to have no wake.

Last weekend I saw what appeared to me to be an old wooden laker going from Little Mark to Echo Point and it was going fast. Perhaps around 60 I do not think I ever seen one of them boats going that fast.
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Old 08-11-2010, 11:19 AM   #50
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I think that Toyota may have manufactured the throttles for this boat explaining everything.
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Old 08-11-2010, 12:24 PM   #51
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At 70 mph and up in a NWZ, he should be arrested and taken to jail.
A bit harsh, considering the way NWZ's are created on a whim these days. Someone going 70 through the Barber's pole on a nice Tuesday in October, with no boats around, is not a problem and should be left alone. Doing the same through a crowd is a different issue.
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Old 08-11-2010, 03:15 PM   #52
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A bit harsh, considering the way NWZ's are created on a whim these days. Someone going 70 through the Barber's pole on a nice Tuesday in October, with no boats around, is not a problem and should be left alone. Doing the same through a crowd is a different issue.
I don't think NWZ's are created on a whim these days. The lake is far more crowded than in years past and many more of the boats are capable of high speeds. And it shouldn't be left to the individual offender as to when and by how much to interpret what is safe and proper. Imagine if we did this on our roads. Its OK to go through downtown Wolfeboro at 50 MPH if its 2 AM but you must do 45 if the roads are wet but 55 is OK if you have a low riding Porsche(60 OK if you have extra wide tires and heavy duty breaks)....WAY too confusing.
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Old 08-11-2010, 04:36 PM   #53
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A bit harsh, considering the way NWZ's are created on a whim these days. Someone going 70 through the Barber's pole on a nice Tuesday in October, with no boats around, is not a problem and should be left alone. Doing the same through a crowd is a different issue.
Do you drive through a red light if there are no other cars on the road?

You are responsible for obeying the law ALL the time. Not just when think it's appropriate.

Sometimes a NWZ is really about the wake, like in the weirs channel. Is it ok to go through there full speed in October? You can't leave it up to the operator to decide when he should obey the rules.
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Old 08-11-2010, 07:20 PM   #54
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YAWN, 'sigh', I need more popcorn...
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. . .Evidently nothing.

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Old 08-12-2010, 07:39 AM   #55
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YANKEE

That just about sums up the USA problem.
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Old 08-17-2010, 08:44 PM   #56
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This thread really got me rolling on the floor.. Speed boats.. near Bear Island???
Say it aint so My favorite is the speed boats make big wakes theory...LOL FAIL!
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Old 08-22-2010, 07:14 PM   #57
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Smok'em if ya got um. Haven't we all wanted to break the rules just once, maybe twice?
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Old 08-23-2010, 08:12 AM   #58
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And, you must have to admit, it must have been pretty cool to witness.
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Old 08-23-2010, 11:37 AM   #59
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And, you must have to admit, it must have been pretty cool to witness.
While I understand the excitement aspect to it. (hence why people watch high speed chases on TV etc. and I for one wouldn't have turned my head) - and not directed at you PM203 or anyone else for that matter..........

But if my son was paddle boating through the NWZ there and this guy blew through it, I for one would have wanted to shoot out his engines. This was a blatent disregard for public safety and could have gone from exciting to tragic.

Now luckily that didn't happen and we can discuss this as an issue rather then an accident, but what we need to do is learn from this.

It isn't a matter of the class of boat that was being driven it was the driver. There has to be penalties that keep drivers like this from returning to the lake not the type of boat. The MP need to have the rights and penalties the Coast Guard has. (don't quote me but I believe if you try to out run the coast guard the fines are in the thousands of dollars - 15K comes to my mind - not to mention you may get a 50 cal. through your block) So my guess is if these were the same regulations for the MP that the CG have many people would be less likely to try a stunt like this. This shouldn't just apply to outrunning the MP but all MP regulations should mirror the CG. IMHO
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Old 08-23-2010, 01:09 PM   #60
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While I understand the excitement aspect to it. (hence why people watch high speed chases on TV etc. and I for one wouldn't have turned my head) - and not directed at you PM203 or anyone else for that matter..........

But if my son was paddle boating through the NWZ there and this guy blew through it, I for one would have wanted to shoot out his engines. This was a blatent disregard for public safety and could have gone from exciting to tragic.

Now luckily that didn't happen and we can discuss this as an issue rather then an accident, but what we need to do is learn from this.

It isn't a matter of the class of boat that was being driven it was the driver. There has to be penalties that keep drivers like this from returning to the lake not the type of boat. The MP need to have the rights and penalties the Coast Guard has. (don't quote me but I believe if you try to out run the coast guard the fines are in the thousands of dollars - 15K comes to my mind - not to mention you may get a 50 cal. through your block) So my guess is if these were the same regulations for the MP that the CG have many people would be less likely to try a stunt like this. This shouldn't just apply to outrunning the MP but all MP regulations should mirror the CG. IMHO
I would be fine with giving the MP all the authority of the Coast Guard right up to 50 cal. The thought of NHMP with 50 caliber guns mounted on the bow of their McRibbs scares the crap out of me.
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Old 08-23-2010, 01:31 PM   #61
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Default boating infractions

Lake Snake
I was just told that with the passing of the new speed limit law all boating infractions are reported to the DMV but only in NH. So residents now accumulate points against their driving record while none residents retain a record of the violation which if they move to this state is then applied.
Not exactly sure how it works but I’m sure it’s not hard to check it out.
Hopefully this will curb repeat offenders.

As for the boat at bottom of this debate I was told it was not a Cigarette boat.
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Old 08-24-2010, 06:12 AM   #62
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As for the boat at bottom of this debate I was told it was not a Cigarette boat.
From what I understand it was an Outerlimits.
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Old 08-24-2010, 08:16 AM   #63
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Lake Snake
I was just told that with the passing of the new speed limit law all boating infractions are reported to the DMV but only in NH. So residents now accumulate points against their driving record while none residents retain a record of the violation which if they move to this state is then applied.
Not exactly sure how it works but I’m sure it’s not hard to check it out.
Hopefully this will curb repeat offenders.

As for the boat at bottom of this debate I was told it was not a Cigarette boat.
The problem with accumulating points in NH, is that eventually you can accumulate enough NH points for NH to revoke your driving privileges....Yes you can be excluded from driving in a particular state even if you don't have your license there.... However wait it only gets better... because when that happens a notice goes out to the state where you have your drivers license indicate that your right to operate a motor vehicle has been revoked, and your state may or may not chose do penalize you in some way, and of course then your insurance company hears about it.... There go your insurance rates..... All because of a few infractions on the lake....
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Old 08-24-2010, 09:02 AM   #64
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You would have to blatantly break the speed limit in front of the MP numerous times before you would be issued enough citations to have your driving privelages revoked. Its almost impossible. Unless you are doing 100 through a no wake zone or some other blatant act endangering others, the MP does not take notice . They are smart enough and educated enough to look for the real problems. A boat going 60 in the broads would not even get a yawn from them.Thank goodness they are a good bunch with common sense.
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Old 08-24-2010, 11:25 AM   #65
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... There go your insurance rates..... All because of a few infractions on the lake....
If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.
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Old 08-24-2010, 02:51 PM   #66
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You would have to blatantly break the speed limit in front of the MP numerous times before you would be issued enough citations to have your driving privelages revoked. Its almost impossible. Unless you are doing 100 through a no wake zone or some other blatant act endangering others, the MP does not take notice . They are smart enough and educated enough to look for the real problems. A boat going 60 in the broads would not even get a yawn from them.Thank goodness they are a good bunch with common sense.
Now, speaking from experience. A 100mph speeding ticket in a 65 zone in a car adds 4 points to your drivers license. A 26mph over adds 3 and a seat belt violation adds 2. Put these three violations together in one calendar year and you have exceeded the number of points one can accrue in that calendar year, you lose your license for about 6 months, give or take on top of the individual violation suspensions.

And for anyone wondering, yes it was me and that was over 10 years ago without a ticket since. Total violation fines were over 1K with a 1 year probation period on my license, that ANY moving violation would kick in another 6 month loss of license that was suspended for good behavior.

It adds up quicker than you think.
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Old 08-24-2010, 08:46 PM   #67
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Now, speaking from experience. A 100mph speeding ticket in a 65 zone in a car adds 4 points to your drivers license. A 26mph over adds 3 and a seat belt violation adds 2. Put these three violations together in one calendar year and you have exceeded the number of points one can accrue in that calendar year, you lose your license for about 6 months, give or take on top of the individual violation suspensions.

And for anyone wondering, yes it was me and that was over 10 years ago without a ticket since. Total violation fines were over 1K with a 1 year probation period on my license, that ANY moving violation would kick in another 6 month loss of license that was suspended for good behavior.

It adds up quicker than you think.
True. But, that's on the road. The lake and lake violations are a different story.
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Old 08-25-2010, 07:17 AM   #68
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True. But, that's on the road. The lake and lake violations are a different story.
I agree and you are probably right. Unfortunately we have no idea what a violation on the water will add for points.

The problem that happens when you start racking up points on the road, is the local PD has your number and they start paying very close attention to what you are doing and keep an eye out for you. I would think the MP would do the same thing.
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Old 08-29-2010, 04:05 AM   #69
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I had the ear of a MP last evening at the Pembroke Old Home Day and since I was interested, I asked for his take on the matter.

1) As far as he knew (and he admitted he might be wrong) only D.U.I goes against your motor vehicle license, but he can cut your license up on the spot for that.

2) If they felt he was evading (failure to stop) he was look at going straight to jail.
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Old 08-29-2010, 07:58 AM   #70
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I'd agree with that. Failing to stop for a LEO should mean cuffs. His not stopping should provide for stiffer penalties than just going that cray speed through a NWZ. I'd treat it the same as a C&N on the road with failure to stop and evading.
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Old 08-29-2010, 09:13 AM   #71
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True. But, that's on the road. The lake and lake violations are a different story.
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In Mass you can schedule a hearing with the surcharge board and get it squashed.
Awwww...

Your advice arrived too late for this guy.

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Old 08-29-2010, 09:30 AM   #72
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I had the ear of a MP last evening at the Pembroke Old Home Day and since I was interested, I asked for his take on the matter.

1) As far as he knew (and he admitted he might be wrong) only D.U.I goes against your motor vehicle license, but he can cut your license up on the spot for that.

2) If they felt he was evading (failure to stop) he was look at going straight to jail.

Reference #1: As has been covered numerous times in various other posts here, all violations of the General Boating Laws will be reported to the Director of Motor Vehicles. This applies to any violation Statewide, not just on Lake winnipesaukee.

Additionally no law enforcement officer has the authority to "cut up" anyone's license. If you test over the limit or refuse to submit to a test, the arresting officer confiscates your license and sends it to DMV, he does not destroy it. In it's place you are given a paper temporary license good for 30 days during which time you can appeal and ask for a hearing at DMV.

Reference #2: If the individual is placed in custody for any offense the arresting officer takes him to the nearest facility to process the arrest. During this process a bail commissioner is contacted and the commissioner sets bail, not the officer. If the individual cannot meet bail requirements he then is transported to a holding facility. However the arresting officer doesn't and can't just take anyone "straight to jail"

In both cases a fundamental right of due process covers the way an individual is handled and processed during an arrest.

All that said I have learned a long time ago not to attribute too much concern over a third party version of a supposed conversation.

If the NHMP actually operated in the manner described above, believe you me we would have been aware of major civil rights lawsuits against that agency!
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Old 08-29-2010, 11:13 PM   #73
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+



Awwww...

Your advice arrived too late for this guy.

What are you talking about?
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Old 08-30-2010, 07:16 AM   #74
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Awwww...

Your advice arrived too late for this guy.

What does that have to do with NH and Lake Winnipesaukee? The accident that the article speaks of was in Maine.
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Old 08-30-2010, 06:00 PM   #75
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Reference #1: As has been covered numerous times in various other posts here, all violations of the General Boating Laws will be reported to the Director of Motor Vehicles. This applies to any violation Statewide, not just on Lake winnipesaukee.

Additionally no law enforcement officer has the authority to "cut up" anyone's license. If you test over the limit or refuse to submit to a test, the arresting officer confiscates your license and sends it to DMV, he does not destroy it. In it's place you are given a paper temporary license good for 30 days during which time you can appeal and ask for a hearing at DMV.

Reference #2: If the individual is placed in custody for any offense the arresting officer takes him to the nearest facility to process the arrest. During this process a bail commissioner is contacted and the commissioner sets bail, not the officer. If the individual cannot meet bail requirements he then is transported to a holding facility. However the arresting officer doesn't and can't just take anyone "straight to jail"

In both cases a fundamental right of due process covers the way an individual is handled and processed during an arrest.

All that said I have learned a long time ago not to attribute too much concern over a third party version of a supposed conversation.

If the NHMP actually operated in the manner described above, believe you me we would have been aware of major civil rights lawsuits against that agency!

He admitted that he might be wrong, and I related that.
"Straight to jail" was a figure of speech. impling that the consequences could be very severe.
He was pretty convinced he could "cut up" (his words) a licence for a DUI on the spot though.

I was attempting to relate the position of the officer I was speaking to.

There are a lot of posts on this forum and I am new, so please excuse me if I was unaware that this material had been previousy covered.
(At least I attempted a reasonable on topic post that was not just my opinion.)
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Old 09-03-2010, 03:15 AM   #76
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Thumbs down "Squashing" Needed...

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What does that have to do with NH and Lake Winnipesaukee? The accident that the article speaks of was in Maine.
It was "the usual suspect" from "a bordering state".

He didn't have 22 violations—he had 22 convictions. Did that add some years during conviction?

He neglected to use all possible efforts to "squash" some of those convictions.

Or, quite possibly, just didn't care.
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Old 09-05-2010, 09:17 PM   #77
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....
Reference #2: If the individual is placed in custody for any offense the arresting officer takes him to the nearest facility to process the arrest. During this process a bail commissioner is contacted and the commissioner sets bail, not the officer. If the individual cannot meet bail requirements he then is transported to a holding facility. However the arresting officer doesn't and can't just take anyone "straight to jail"....
That must be only a NH thing, doesn't work that way in RI.
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Old 09-07-2010, 07:49 AM   #78
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It was "the usual suspect" from "a bordering state".

He didn't have 22 violations—he had 22 convictions. Did that add some years during conviction?

He neglected to use all possible efforts to "squash" some of those convictions.

Or, quite possibly, just didn't care.
Again, what does it have to do with Lake Winnipesaukee? The guy was from Mass, and he was on a lake in Maine.

And the 22 convictions you speak of...they were for speeding. On roads.

So are you trying to correlate the 2 events? Meaning that:
a) because the guy has been convicted of speeding in a vehicle (not a boat)
b) he caused an accident because he was drunk
c) he is from Mass, but boating in Maine

And this equals a person going 100 MPH through a NWZ on Lake Winni?
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Old 04-15-2011, 06:23 PM   #79
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...ttt...What is the rest of the story on this.?..Was the owner & boat identified & properly flogged.?..... ...Just out of curiosity, how long has that area been a NWZ.?..
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Old 04-15-2011, 09:59 PM   #80
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Reference #2: If the individual is placed in custody for any offense the arresting officer takes him to the nearest facility to process the arrest. During this process a bail commissioner is contacted and the commissioner sets bail, not the officer. If the individual cannot meet bail requirements he then is transported to a holding facility. However the arresting officer doesn't and can't just take anyone "straight to jail"
If I had known that 20 years ago, Meredith PD will be in deep dudu. I was arrested for BUI early Sunday morning. Because he was the only officer on duty that morning, he had to transport me to the Belknap County Jail. The sherriff dept called a bondsman and I was release. I had to find my own ride home.

FYI, I was found innocent in Superior Court as I had .00 on the breathalyzer.
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Old 04-16-2011, 10:21 AM   #81
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...can I get an answer to my post.?..not obfuscation......
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Old 07-07-2011, 09:17 PM   #82
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Default Marine Patrol Keeping An Eye Out

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Saturday afternoon I was boating around Governors Island and saw a red Cigarrete boat with yellow trim being worked on. Engine compartment open. Around 7PM a boat, I think the same one, went around Bear Island. The boat was going so fast through the NWZ that I had a hard time turning my head fast enough to keep it in sight. I have never seen a boat go anywhere near that fast.

About a minute later a Marine Patrol boat came around the corner full speed then he slowed down. I turned up my scanner and heard the dispatcher ask how the chase was going. The officer replied "I can't touch him, he is going twice my speed". Then "I'll go to his house on Governors and wait for him".

Anybody know how this ended?

I saw this boat a few times this week around Welch and every time I saw / heard him he was being shadowed by a Marine Patrol boat. This boat is HUGE and no way legal loud and quite capable of the speeds you suggested. It does in fact dock on Governors island near the bridge. I have seen nothing on the lake that compares to it. It's actually larger and much much louder than the Outerlimits boat that used to dock near Glendale.

Dan
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Old 07-09-2011, 11:05 AM   #83
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Again, what does it have to do with Lake Winnipesaukee? The guy was from Mass, and he was on a lake in Maine.
From MA, he had to trailer his boat 40 miles further than Lake Winnipesaukee...Was he avoiding Winnipesaukee, because he had the "switchable-exhaust"—formerly illegal in New Hampshire?

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And this equals a person going 100 MPH through a NWZ on Lake Winni?
Question: Their speed difference?

Answer: Not much...
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Old 07-10-2011, 07:33 AM   #84
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From MA, he had to trailer his boat 40 miles further than Lake Winnipesaukee...Was he avoiding Winnipesaukee, because he had the "switchable-exhaust"—formerly illegal in New Hampshire?


Question: Their speed difference?

Answer: Not much...

Project much? Maybe they could post you at the border and you can stop anyone you "feel" "might" cause a problem? The guy had multiple convictions for reckless behavior on the roadways, PO'd the judge by his attitude in court, and probably is just a scumbag in general.

There's a huge gap between your desire to return the lake to where it was 30,000 years ago, and today. In this thread, a boat was going at tremendous speeds through a NWZ. Pretty easy to ascertain that a speed limit was in force.

I was pretty harsh in stating my treatment of the offender. Most of the SL supporters were far less harsh. Look at BI's statements.

APS, would you even post in this thread if it had been a 20' bowrider doing 50?
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Old 07-13-2011, 04:58 AM   #85
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Wink Not Teenaged—Clueless No Longer...

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APS, would you even post in this thread if it had been a 20' bowrider doing 50?
I would, if clueless of Physics.

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Project much? Maybe they could post you at the border and you can stop anyone you "feel" "might" cause a problem? The guy had multiple convictions for reckless behavior on the roadways, PO'd the judge by his attitude in court, and probably is just a scumbag in general.
My projection comes easy—I was once a teenager!
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Old 07-19-2011, 02:15 PM   #86
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As usual, your response makes no sense. You must spend a lot of time coming up with riddles for responses where you realy can't possibly just straight out launch an opinion. Heaven forbid you'd have to divert your attention to a boat that wasn't on your most wanted list. Perhaps one day, when you're all grown up, you too can become a friendly boater.

I could be wrong, but I don't think either driver of the boats you mention are teenagers. Although I never did find out who the 100mph boat was being driven by.

So Physics matter most as to whether you'd respond to this thread or not? Interesting indeed. So nobody has to worry about smaller boats speeding, drunk drivers or not?

Given a statement you made about a tragic accident off the coast in Mass, where you misstated the facts of the accident, I guess I'm not surprised. You have no idea how to respond directly to people in an adult manner. I have ridiculed the 100 mph NWZ incident as being outrageous behavior, and the jerk with multiple convictions from Mass than ran over another boat I had some more punishment to dole out for him as well.

For every jerk like the one that caused the tragedy in Maine, there's probably 40 more that did the same sort of thing elsewhere in a smaller boat, perhaps a very quiet one as well? Do you really think a jerk with 22 convictions and moving violations would detour because his sound device might be against the law?

I was saddened to read that two people died when their 35' sailboat capsized in a Michigan race. The skipper had 44 years of sailing experience.

I find this quote from his sister to be a very loving one. Do you know why I picked this quote?

"We were born on sailboats," sister Linda Morley said. "And I guess in Mark's case, he died on a sailboat."

From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20110719/...#ixzz1Sa2AaXlW
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Old 07-19-2011, 03:22 PM   #87
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I was saddened to read that two people died when their 35' sailboat capsized in a Michigan race. The skipper had 44 years of sailing experience.[/B]

From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20110719/...#ixzz1Sa2AaXlW
This story is tragic, but it's not suprising to me. Check out the link below. Read the Specs. The KIWI 35 is a 35 foot 2800 pound boat. It's just a sailing canoe with outrigged platforms for the "Live Ballast"..the crew, to keep the boat upright under sail. It's a VERY light weight 35' daysailer with a very narrow waterline beam. This is not a family cruising boat. It's not a boat you want to be out in 50 knot winds. No matter how skillful the crew, this boat is really not designed to take big winds..Particularly GUSTY wind.

In my opinion, the crew did everything right. But sails OFF or not, that boat was going over. A typical 35' sailboat on the lake probably weighs over 15,000 pounds. NB

http://www.sailingtexas.com/skiwi35a.html
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Old 07-19-2011, 06:11 PM   #88
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I would, if clueless of Physics.

Your screen name proves that you are totally clueless not only about basic physics but high school level science as well.

acres per second? Please don't get me started. Its meaning is totally incongruous with any concept of basic physics.
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Old 07-20-2011, 04:34 AM   #89
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I was saddened to read that two people died when their 35' sailboat capsized in a Michigan race. The skipper had 44 years of sailing experience.
That race caused a pair of catamaran sailors to invert from a microburst two years earlier. They survived inside one hull just fine, but rescue came too late and hypothermia claimed their lives.

Lake Winnipesaukee's "summer tub-water" can't be compared to the Great Lakes' extremely cold water—year-round.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VtSteve View Post
I find this quote from his sister to be a very loving one.

"We were born on sailboats," sister Linda Morley said. "And I guess in Mark's case, he died on a sailboat."

Do you know why I picked this quote?
Because you have more sycophants here—than at the Wolfeboro website where my "Team-GFBL" quote first appeared?

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Old 07-20-2011, 01:15 PM   #90
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The point being APS, in both of the accidents, off the Coast of Mass, and the Michigan race, the skippers died doing what they loved to do. Both had decades of experience. You choose only to pick on the powerboat accident, where the boat broke apart. He didn't hit any jetty, that was a drunken boater in another crash.

It was said by some very astute dude that to say someone died doing what they loved to do was silly. (I won't use the actual term, which is pretty demeaning).


Point is, both are sad to read about, but their lives were filled with joy doing what they loved to do. They apparently had many friends and family members that will miss them dearly.

I had no charges or false accusations to make, I merely pointed out two tragedies. You could occasionally try to act like a human every now and again.
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Old 07-21-2011, 05:35 AM   #91
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Your screen name proves that you are totally clueless not only about basic physics but high school level science as well.

acres per second? Please don't get me started. Its meaning is totally incongruous with any concept of basic physics.
The concept is nonetheless valid.

Among other things, it was used to describe the irresponsibility of oversized boats racing side-by-side at high speeds—under New Hampshire's "Unsafe Passage" RSA.

Someone else presented that concept to the Transportation Committee at hearings; surely, it had an effect on those who could conceptualize it.


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You choose only to pick on the powerboat accident, where the boat broke apart. He didn't hit any jetty, that was a drunken boater in another crash.
1) This past weekend, there were two fatal crashes reported near Boston Harbor—both were powerboats—but I do stand corrected.

The boat that hit the jetty stayed together: it was the Magnum that broke apart and sank—after the fatal GFBL thrill of "getting-air". On this forum, we've seen it termed "dancing".

[SIZE="1"](Whatever "floats your boat"—so to speak)...

2) That other thread's link has received an update.
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Old 07-21-2011, 08:00 AM   #92
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an update[/URL]....please rebuild this link because it does not work!
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Old 07-22-2011, 04:13 AM   #93
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Default Go to Old Link...

Thank you for using the links I supply.

Rather than risk the same problem again, try the subject thread and its link—which has always worked for me.

http://winnipesaukee.com/forums/show...0&postcount=25
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Old 08-07-2011, 07:54 AM   #94
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Still bumping this one along I see
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