Photos of all sorts of stuff...

[Diver1111]

I think I have a handle on this file compression thing-thanks to the responses I got to my question.

These pictures are of some of the artifacts I've found in the lake. They have been found off Meredith, Greens' Basin, Paugus Bay, Clarke's Point, Weirs, Long Island, Alton Bay, Diamond Island, and Bear Island among other places. The insulators are common but offer alot of variety. Some are worth some real money, as do the inkwells and of course some bottles. I just like diving for them because I love the history so much but it doesn't hurt that some may be worth something. I donate some things to various historical societies if I think they'd like them.

Some of these finds have stories behind them, to wit:
The Blue Rock brand target pigeon was found in Wolfboro Bay. I had read an account of a famous (Colonel?) who was an early settler there and built a mansion on the hill off Sewell Road, and in the process a 140 foot jetty out into the water from which they'd socialize while drinking whiskey and shooting skeet. I had to find this thing. Nobody knew anything anywhere as I searched. Long story short-I drove thru Wolfboro one day-among other efforts- and tracked down a gentleman who was old enough to know what I was looking for and what I was talking about. He told me how to find it by locating the Colonel's house and running a visual from it straight to the water. I drove the road, saw the house, and since it was summertime couldn't see the water due to the trees. So I landmarked it on my GPS, and returned by boat. Running parallel to the shore I intersected the line from the landmark and dropped anchor and went over the side. Damn near landed on the jetty. While diving a woman about 40ish came out in a canoe from shore and asked what I doing. I told her. She in turn said "Oh yeah, that makes sense. I'm told my grandmother used to come down here "with the boys" (the Colonel and friends) drink whiskey and shoot skeet off the jetty". Now I know why I found so many of these pigeons. I then emailed a die-hard pigeon collector in Connecticut photos of the Blue Rock brand and he really nailed it down, saying that these particluar targets were manufactured between about 1910 and 1915.

I have researched the history behind many of the artifacts posted. If you have any questions let me know.
Enjoy!

[Diver1111]

I don't know what happened-tried to upload numerous photos-obviously didn't work. But I have added the clay pigeon.

[Mee-n-Mac]

Originally Posted by Diver1111

I don't know what happened-tried to upload numerous photos-obviously didn't work. But I have added the clay pigeon.

Did you get an answer you like from the other post(s) ? Are the photo's mentioned above still MIA ? I'll guess you were trying to attach them / put them in a post like you did with above photo. I'm going to suggest that instead you upload them to the PhotoPost section as I'm sure they will be many people who will find them interesting. Also Photopost is less restrictive than including them inside a post in the Forum.

[Pineedles]

Diver,

If your waiting for applause to post, you got 2 hands here clapping away!!!

[Diver1111]

Hi All,
Thanks to help from Forum members I have this compression thing down. I actually have more than one way to compress a file now-thank you.

I took the folder I put together of selected photos of artifacts (9.56MB in size) and reduced the entire folder to less than 1MB. I am now trying to post them in the PhotoPost section of the site as suggested but as I go through the process I see that only one file can be selected at a time for an upload-what am I missing? Is this correct? I have about 15 photos or so. I tried holding down the Control key that I normally use for multiple attachments I use in an email, but this technique doesn't "take" here.

I'm open for suggestions.
Thanks.

[Mee-n-Mac]

Originally Posted by Diver1111

Hi All,
Thanks to help from I took the folder I put together of selected photos of artifacts (9.56MB in size) and reduced the entire folder to less than 1MB. I am now trying to post them in the PhotoPost section of the site as suggested but as I go through the process I see that only one file can be selected at a time for an upload-what am I missing? Is this correct? I have about 15 photos or so. I tried holding down the Control key that I normally use for multiple attachments I use in an email, but this technique doesn't "take" here.

I'm open for suggestions.
Thanks.

I think you have it. I've only ever been able to upload 1 pic at a time to Photopost. This allows for tagging it with a name and a description so it never bothered me. I don't think there's a "batch" way to upload more than 1 at a time.

[Skipper of the Sea Que]

I vaguely recall batch uploading using the following method.
Open Upload Window: Browse, click on 1 picture to upload, then click on the next one and etc.. They all went on the UPLOAD line and, as I remember, all uploaded.

Haven't done it lately but I think that worked for me.

I too would love to see more from Diver1111.

[Diver1111]

I hope these upload OK, even separately.

[Grant]

Nice collection!

Now we need to round it out with some of those infamous Rum Point bottles! (Speaking of which, thanks for the fax...)

[Pineedles]

Grant, I see a bottle in your collection embossed, J.R. CHAMP... second line LACONIA. Have you researched it? Great pics!!

[Diver1111]

This bottle says "J.R. Champlin-Laconia N.H." on it in a circular pattern on the front, and the message "Not to be sold" on the back. I did a good search for info on it and came up with nothing. Clearly a regional bottler of some sort who probably refilled them.

All of these items with the exception of the skeet pigeon, the MercuroChrome bottle and the Bromo bottle are 1800's era. The MercuroChrome bottle was found in 10 feet on water sitting on a flat rock in Greenes' Basin, obviously still holding the bright red concoction. Old-I figure 1920's. I have read that it got its name because it actually contained mercury.

The large crock with the blue "capacity mark" of 5 gallons was also found in Greenes', in pieces. I liked it so much I brought it home and glued it back together using all of the pieces I could find-have the lid too-not something you usually find with these crocks.

As for that rum thing Grant I continue to research it. I might just post some of the documents I found (which you saw) supporting an active and sometimes dangerous booze smuggling operation during Prohibition. Car chases, gun battles, raids-the whole deal. Based upon what I have found so far on that hunt I believe that story about a chase on Winni when the shipment went down is probably true.

[Paugus Bay Resident]

I did find this reference:
"J.R. Champlin. Laconia, N.H. 1880-89. N.H. business directory 'telescope
manufacturer'. (DJW-NMAH)"

[Weirs guy]

Originally Posted by Diver1111

I might just post some of the documents I found (which you saw) supporting an active and sometimes dangerous booze smuggling operation during Prohibition.

I think you need to post them now that we're all excited about it.

[Pineedles]

Post please asap! We of the above the surface crowd need to see this.

[Tallyho]

Thanks for the great pictures! I have what looks like a twin to that cut glass pitcher. It came with our camp, which was built around 1900.

[Diver1111]

I will certainly do that, not quite yet though. My resources are somewhat of a secret here and there is alot of work involved. As much as I'd like to think that divers would respect a find, especially something like this, some won't. Real dirtbags. I'm not giving them a leg up on this. Grant and I are on the same page here, and it's an active research project.

Please bear with me, it will go up eventually-and it's great material.

[LadyJane]

wow, very nice photos......thanks for sharing them!

[fmgate]

I did a quick review of the 1880 and 1900 US Federal Census (1890 records for NH have been lost). The 1880 Census lists a John R. Champlin (abt. 51 years old) living in Laconia, NH with his wife, a son, and daughter-in-law. His profession: "Keeps Saloon". In 1900, John (b. 1828) was still in Laconia, living with a son and daughter-in-law at 38 Court St. His profession in 1900: "Bottler". My search did not reveal a John Champlin with an approximate age of 81/82 residing anywhere in the US in the 1910 census, so he probably passed away sometime after 1900. Given this information, is is reasonable that the bottle was manufactured/used in the latter two decades of the 19th century.

[Diver1111]

fmgate-great research! I had a bear of a time researching that-came up blank-you found more than anyone I know. Occupation-"bottler"-I thought so, as it said Not To Be Resold on it, meaning they wanted the bottle back, presumably for re-filling.

[secondcurve]

Diver1111:

Thanks for the interesting story. I have one question that I can't reconcile. You talk of a 140 foot jetty off of the house on Sewell Rd. in Wolfeboro that the original owners of the house used to drink whisky on and shoot skeet from. You go on to mention that you found the jetty on your first dive off the property. How did a 140 jetty become submerged? Has the level of the lake in that area changed?

[Diver1111]

I had some good info from a local historian after much research to find him. Using GPS and swimming parallel to the shore I hit it first try.

Once there, the jetty appeared to have been either blown up or torn down-perhaps both. Large boulders-much bigger than what was generally in the area on the lake floor-were used to build it. Unless you knew what you were looking for one would be hard pressed to say-oh gee, there's a jetty. But it's an obvious structure relative to the rest of the area, and as I said, littered with Blue Rock target pigeons all around it.

As I recall the depth was maybe 18 feet with a gentle slope to the shore. Dropping the lake level even a few feet would/could expose this structure if it was still intact. This would depend of course of its height of it back then.

As for lake level, I don't know offhand when the Lakeport Dam was but I believe this structure would pre-date it (built late 1800's). Anybody know when Lakeport was built?? Between lower lake levels and and a higher structure than what is there now, it wouldn't take much to get it out of the water to serve as a jetty.

Hope this helps.

[Senter Cove Guy]

Grant and I dove "The Jetty" last Saturday. Thanks to Diver1111, we were able to find the jetty fairly easily. We were lucky enough to find 2 intact clay pigeons. I'm sure if we looked longer we'd have found more. See the pictures below. Notice that they have different markings than the clay pigeon found by Diver1111. I have an inquiry out to the folks at Remington to see if they can help pinpoint the era of the pigeons.

Prior to diving, I had done a little more research and found the following by visiting the Wolfeboro Chamber Of Commerce in the Wolfeboro train station. They have 3 books on the history of Wolfeborough. By searching the index for Sewall Road, I found the following information. I was also able to find the same information on the internet:

HISTORY OF WOLFEBOROUGH Page 521

The development of the Sewall-Rogers lands on the northerly side of the bay within a decade has been remarkable. The land was purchased by Messrs. Charles F. Piper and George A. Carpenter, and is now practically covered with handsome summer residences. The pioneer in this movement was Colonel Edward B. Dickinson, of New York, who had visited Wolfeborough annually for several years and had become impressed with the advantages of the place as a permanent summer home. He purchased a lot of ten acres, with a water front of nearly six hundred feet. Here he erected in 1889 an attractive residence, "Ferncliffe," or thirteen rooms, with a wind-mill, bath-house, boat-house and several summer houses, about the grounds. A stone wharf, one hundred and forty feet long, affords ample dock facilities. The high standard fortunately set by Colonel Dickinson in the first house built on what is now Sewall road, has been to a good degree maintained by the numerous cottagers that have succeeded him.

Update (09/22/2009): My inquiry to Remington brought the following response:

The clay pigeon in picture 1 was manufactured between 1956 - 1975.
The clay pigeon in picture 2 was manufactured between 1938 - 1954.
The clay pigeon that Diver1111 found was manufactured between 1934 - 1938.

Also, there was an early design from 1928 - 1934 and a 1955 year design, both different than the above.

[Argie's Wife]

Originally Posted by Diver1111

All of these items with the exception of the skeet pigeon, the MercuroChrome bottle and the Bromo bottle are 1800's era. The MercuroChrome bottle was found in 10 feet on water sitting on a flat rock in Greenes' Basin, obviously still holding the bright red concoction. Old-I figure 1920's. I have read that it got its name because it actually contained mercury.

I cringed when I saw the words "MercuroChrome" - I remember getting painted with that junk when I was a kid and eeewwwww-owwwwwwwww! Holy cow, that stuff hurt. Hated that stuff. It was still sold here in the US in the 70's...in fact, it wasn't outlawed until the late 1990's!

But that bottle looks like it was from the 20's....

Great thread!

[upthesaukee]

Originally Posted by Argie's Wife

I cringed when I saw the words "MercuroChrome" - I remember getting painted with that junk when I was a kid and eeewwwww-owwwwwwwww! Holy cow, that stuff hurt. Hated that stuff. It was still sold here in the US in the 70's...in fact, it wasn't outlawed until the late 1990's!

But that bottle looks like it was from the 20's....

As I remember it, it was the methiolate (sp) that hurt, and not the mecurochrome. Methiolate was thinner and more orange in color, where mercurochrome was redder in color, and thicker. At least by my feeble mecurochromed, methiolated, and iodinated (another hurt) mind.

[Water Camper]

Hi Diver 1111. I found a very informative website with info about Lakeport. Check it out at http://www.weirsbeach.com/topten/reason9frame.html

Among the various info is the following:

"The first Lakeport dam was built in 1766, the second in 1828. The third dam, built in 1851, was built to last out of stone, and it is still there today. In 1861, the wing dam, to the left in the postcard on the left, was built. (The main dam is just barely visible to the far right center of the postcard.) Around 1957 the wing dam was filled in. On March 31, 1958, the dam became state property. Below, another view of the wing dam, looking South towards Lake Opechee."

Hope this helps.
Sue

[Rattlesnake Gal]

Thanks for the link Water Camper! They've added so much stuff since I last visited. They even mention Winnipesaukee.com, thanks to McDude!

Another great source of historical information about Weirs Beach are the historical photograph and postcard galleries on Winnipesaukee.com. Many hours can easily be spent perusing these on-line galleries. One contributor in particular, "McDude", has posted a massive collection of old Weirs Beach photographs and postcards. His fascinating 3-part Weirs Beach thread can be found here, and his "Weirs Image Gallery" here.

[WinnDixie]

Originally Posted by upthesaukee

As I remember it, it was the methiolate (sp) that hurt, and not the mecurochrome. Methiolate was thinner and more orange in color, where mercurochrome was redder in color, and thicker. At least by my feeble mecurochromed, methiolated, and iodinated (another hurt) mind.

I go so far back I remember begging to have mecurochrome put on a cut or scrape rather than iodine...the iodine REALLY hurt! The two seemed to be the only choices back in my house in the 40's.

[Mee-n-Mac]

Originally Posted by WinnDixie

I go so far back I remember begging to have mecurochrome put on a cut or scrape rather than iodine...the iodine REALLY hurt! The two seemed to be the only choices back in my house in the 40's.

Hmmm, when I was a kid we only used leeches. Then again Dad fancied himself as a medieval "barber".



Or mebbe he was just a big Steve Martin fan ... naaaaaaah.



{Ooops a bit fo snizzle !}

[Diver1111]

My go-to-guy for pigeon ID is Mike at:

brauem@charter.net

I trust his email address is still good. He lives in CT..

Thanks everyone for your input on this and other history-related topics. I love the help in putting these neat mysteries into perspective.

I will have more for you soon-photos of decent enough quality to post, I hope. All sorts of stuff, to my knowledge never before photographed underwater, plus video.

As for diving in general, if only you could see what we see-wow...

[offmycloud]

When I was a kid I found an Aldwell's rum bottle just like yours and a lot of other bottles that look like what you have just snorkeling near Clark's Landing, north end of Moultonborough Bay. There is a rock pile that sits in the north end of that area of the Lake and there is a lot of stuff down there.

Diver1111 - ping me if you want the exact location.

[Rattlesnake Gal]

I found this bottle last year wedged under a rock at the end of our dock - how I missed it for so many years is beyond me. It looks pretty old with no mold lines or ribbing on the bottom like new bottles have for labeling etc. The big bubble on the bottom makes me think it is a champagne bottle that got thrown from one of our lake steamers years ago. It's funny that someone's trash from long ago is now proudly gracing a shelf at the camp.

[Diver1111]

Offmycloud,

I PM'd you. Please check your mail. I'd love to check it out.

I appreciate the areas folks think should be dived and welcome all suggestions. In the future expect more photographs, possibly video as well-depends who I am diving with. While I love photos etc. I am not inclined to buy camera gear-that's what dive buddies are for. I'll bring the boat, side-scan, underwater scooter etc.-that's enough.

Some are tips to me from history buffs on Winni.com, some from local historians, some sites are found by diving with other divers, some I find by research and then check out.

One tool I use is to review USGS topo maps, generally dated 1909 although you will find later versions, about 1950. What I like about them is they show what WAS there not what IS there on a given body of water in NH-of course that's what interests me-what was there. I have a keen interest in any camps/cottages along a shore, as well as RR beds that generally don't appear on present day maps. RR beds are a great area to dive adjacent to.

For those interested in old USGS topo maps, go to:

http://docs.unh.edu/nhtopos/aboutmaps.htm

Scroll down to "The Images And Access To Them", then click the link.

Bear in mind these images can be hard to handle. For some reason if you click on a quadrant for an area, it opens full size then just shrinks by itself to a miniscule size that is pretty much useless. Can't remember how I got around that-I believe it was the Application I chose to open it in, say MS-Paint, or MS Picture & Fax Viewer etc.. that solved the problem. These quadrants are big, so you will have to scroll L/R, up/down, to see a given section of it.

A few years ago I printed out in color all of Lake Winnipesaukee-maybe 60 pages total, then cut, clipped, and taped them together, discarding areas covered that are not of the lake. Then I sent it out to my map guy for laminating. I now have a 1909 full sized topo chart of Winni that pushes 5' x 4' in size. What a great reference.

I am not the only one who knows of this map source. Rattlesnake Gal perhaps? McDude? (his postcard collection still blows me away); I know I have seen it referenced before on Winni.com but it's not well known.

[Rattlesnake Gal]

There are many historic maps in our PhotoPost. Here are a couple of my favorites.



The above map is an 1881 B & M Map of Lake Winnipiseogee and Vicinity can be found here.

The following map was posted by Boardwalk Blues Boy in the History Forum under the title of 1885 Map of Lake Winnipesaukee.



The large version can be found at Weirs Beach.com's website.

[offmycloud]

Diver - I just emailed you about the location.

[CrawfordCentury]

Mrs. Winslow's Soothing Syrup was aggressively marketed to young mothers with cranky babies. Its active ingredient was morphine. Muckraker-era reformers had a special ire for that product, which they credited with helping mothers unwittingly raise a generation of dope fiends.

And yes, Rattlesnake Girl- that was most likely a champagne bottle. I'd wager that you will find no mold seam going up from the base to the shoulder of the bottle. They were manufactured from the 1800s into well into the 20th century using a turn mold. Whilst the glass was still molten, the glassblower rotated the bottle slightly to erase mold seams.

Bit of bottle-related trivia - the natural color of glass is aqua or greenish, depending on the mineral content of the sand used in making the glass.

Glass is made colorless by adding manganese. (Interesting thing is manganese absorbs UV rays. Old clear glass left in the sun for a long time turns an amethyst color).