Go Back   Winnipesaukee Forum > Winnipesaukee Forums > General Discussion
Home Forums Gallery Blogs YouTube Channel Classifieds Calendar Register FAQDonate Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-22-2022, 09:02 AM   #1
Leoskeys
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Lakes Region
Posts: 140
Thanks: 127
Thanked 23 Times in 20 Posts
Default Disturbing Gunstock situation

As a Gunstock season pass holder for nine years, I knew some odd things were going on in the background. But didn’t realize it was this bad…
So a Belmont State Rep who wants NH to secede from the USA, and calls NH’s state government illegitimate, wants more control over decisions impacting Gunstock?

https://www.nhpr.org/nh-news/2022-02...dnov_APFxy3CTk
Leoskeys is offline  
Old 02-22-2022, 09:42 AM   #2
WinnisquamZ
Senior Member
 
WinnisquamZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,403
Thanks: 148
Thanked 463 Times in 307 Posts
Default Disturbing Gunstock situation

Don’t ski, but have followed this soap opera a bit. Can it be as simple as the conservatives representing Belknap county fear overspending? The citizens of Belknap are responsible for any and all defaults of Gunstock.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
WinnisquamZ is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to WinnisquamZ For This Useful Post:
coolyourjets (02-23-2022)
Old 02-22-2022, 11:08 AM   #3
fatlazyless
Senior Member
 
fatlazyless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 7,976
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 262
Thanked 870 Times in 626 Posts
Default

As one of 400 NH state reps who get paid one hundred dollars per year, it sure seems these political wack-a-doozies just want more to do and more power by grabbing the money controls on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunstock_Mountain_Resort. .....
__________________
.... age-70 & suffering terrible chronic tinnitus ... omg!
fatlazyless is offline  
Old 02-22-2022, 05:52 PM   #4
StevenGilford
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 132
Thanks: 14
Thanked 44 Times in 27 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ View Post
Don’t ski, but have followed this soap opera a bit. Can it be as simple as the conservatives representing Belknap county fear overspending? The citizens of Belknap are responsible for any and all defaults of Gunstock.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
The true conservatives on the committee support Gunstock and the current structure. It's the FreeState Libertarian conservatives and their followers who are causing the issues. They have also been underfunding the nursing home and sheriff's department, slashing way in excess of the conservative majority county commissioners proposed budgets (which are supported by the actual conservatives).
StevenGilford is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to StevenGilford For This Useful Post:
pondguy (02-22-2022)
Old 02-22-2022, 06:03 PM   #5
WinnisquamZ
Senior Member
 
WinnisquamZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,403
Thanks: 148
Thanked 463 Times in 307 Posts
Default

True conservatives, free state libertarians, actual conservatives. Conservatives spend within their means. Name call all you like. They were elected to do exactly what they are attempting to do


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
WinnisquamZ is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to WinnisquamZ For This Useful Post:
map (02-25-2022)
Sponsored Links
Old 02-22-2022, 07:22 PM   #6
John Mercier
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Posts: 1,234
Thanks: 0
Thanked 238 Times in 206 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ View Post
True conservatives, free state libertarians, actual conservatives. Conservatives spend within their means. Name call all you like. They were elected to do exactly what they are attempting to do


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
Gunstock is not spending outside its means.

The debate was whether Gunstock should be run as a business or not.
Well run businesses have gone to profit sharing (management bonuses being part of that) for several decades now to align the owners' interests with the employees' interest.

The libertarian debate is whether a government entity should compete with private interests.
The alpine skiing itself doesn't... as I can't think of any other alpine skiing in the county... support businesses are questionable.

For someone focused on taxpayers, most of the delegates would want Gunstock to increase profits - thus providing more to the county, and lowering the demand on local property owners to fund the county operations. To delegates from Gilford, it would be better for Gilford property tax payers to have those support businesses on private taxable property.
John Mercier is offline  
Old 02-22-2022, 07:50 PM   #7
FlyingScot
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Tuftonboro and Sudbury, MA
Posts: 1,789
Thanks: 920
Thanked 770 Times in 468 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ View Post
True conservatives, free state libertarians, actual conservatives. Conservatives spend within their means. Name call all you like. They were elected to do exactly what they are attempting to do


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
I agree with your statement here. By this definition, I'm a conservative. I also agree with government oversight of government assets.

The problem though, as pointed out above, is that these guys have also proposed that NH secede from the US. No patriotic American--whether conservative, liberal, libertarian...--should trust them.
FlyingScot is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to FlyingScot For This Useful Post:
Cobalt 25 (02-26-2022), Leoskeys (02-23-2022)
Old 02-22-2022, 09:08 PM   #8
WinnisquamZ
Senior Member
 
WinnisquamZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,403
Thanks: 148
Thanked 463 Times in 307 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingScot View Post
I agree with your statement here. By this definition, I'm a conservative. I also agree with government oversight of government assets.

The problem though, as pointed out above, is that these guys have also proposed that NH secede from the US. No patriotic American--whether conservative, liberal, libertarian...--should trust them.
Yes, that is the agenda of a few of them. However, that has nothing to do with Gunstock and it’s management of spending and operations. The Belknap reps are just doing there job. We get the opportunity to vote again soon


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
WinnisquamZ is offline  
Old 02-22-2022, 09:35 PM   #9
FlyingScot
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Tuftonboro and Sudbury, MA
Posts: 1,789
Thanks: 920
Thanked 770 Times in 468 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ View Post
Yes, that is the agenda of a few of them. However, that has nothing to do with Gunstock and it’s management of spending and operations. The Belknap reps are just doing there job. We get the opportunity to vote again soon


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
It's a trust issue for me. If a normal conservative or a normal liberal came up with this plan, I might not agree at first, but I'd listen closely. When it's these guys, I don't believe a word they say.
FlyingScot is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to FlyingScot For This Useful Post:
Leoskeys (02-23-2022)
Old 02-22-2022, 11:32 PM   #10
John Mercier
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Posts: 1,234
Thanks: 0
Thanked 238 Times in 206 Posts
Default

What plan?
I haven't seen the delegation put forth a plan.

There are grievances that bonuses were given out... but in the past, many argued that the operation had to be run more like a business.

I'm not sure I see a plan - maybe just a lack of understanding business practices.
John Mercier is offline  
Old 02-23-2022, 10:23 AM   #11
StevenGilford
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 132
Thanks: 14
Thanked 44 Times in 27 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ View Post
True conservatives, free state libertarians, actual conservatives. Conservatives spend within their means. Name call all you like. They were elected to do exactly what they are attempting to do


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
The point is that they are all conservatives. It's a conservative budget submitted by conservative commissioners to a 100% republican/conservative delegation which has multiple conservative views on the reasonableness of the budget.

So please differentiate "living within their means" vs. "indiscriminate slashing of budgets regardless of consequences"
StevenGilford is offline  
Old 02-23-2022, 10:29 AM   #12
WinnisquamZ
Senior Member
 
WinnisquamZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,403
Thanks: 148
Thanked 463 Times in 307 Posts
Default

One persons “indiscriminate slashing of budgets” is another’s “living within one’s means”.
I sit here typing looking down at the jeans I wear with patches. Boots with a bit of duck tape and drinking coffee I made myself. Living within one’s means has a different meaning to many


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
WinnisquamZ is offline  
Old 02-23-2022, 07:51 PM   #13
John Mercier
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Posts: 1,234
Thanks: 0
Thanked 238 Times in 206 Posts
Default

True. But if you end up at/needing the nursing home... you will want a little mercy.

The issue really seems to be a matter of whether Gunstock should do whatever it takes to make more money and cover more of the county budget; or whether it should be restricted from competing against local private investment and thus provide Gilford with more money to offset its property taxes.

I get both sides. But with Laconia having the largest number of delegates, and a pretty hefty payout to the county budget while trying to remain within its tax cap... I think we will see ongoing pressure for Gunstock to pull out all the stops and go for revenue wherever they can find it.

They can only cut the county budget so much before they have to find other means to fund... and I know that in Belmont, I would rather not be in the form of more property tax rather than a hotel/restaurant at Gunstock.

Last edited by John Mercier; 02-25-2022 at 07:20 PM.
John Mercier is offline  
Old 02-25-2022, 05:36 PM   #14
map
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: The Weirs
Posts: 195
Thanks: 155
Thanked 61 Times in 45 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ View Post
Don’t ski, but have followed this soap opera a bit. Can it be as simple as the conservatives representing Belknap county fear overspending? The citizens of Belknap are responsible for any and all defaults of Gunstock.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
Bingo! I know several members of the delegation and the goal is transparency. It’s taxpayer money after all.
map is offline  
Old 02-25-2022, 06:49 PM   #15
NH.Solar
Senior Member
 
NH.Solar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Jackson Pond, New Hampton
Posts: 171
Thanks: 31
Thanked 100 Times in 54 Posts
Default

I think that Mr Sylvia would find his life's efforts better served if he moved to Grafton and started to write a follow up to the excellent book/documentary, "A Libertarian Walks Into a Bear".
That being said however, I am very glad to live in a State where opinions, even if they might be viewed a fringe, are not only allowed but welcomed.
__________________
Peter
NH Solar
NH.Solar is offline  
Old 02-25-2022, 07:34 PM   #16
John Mercier
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Posts: 1,234
Thanks: 0
Thanked 238 Times in 206 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by map View Post
Bingo! I know several members of the delegation and the goal is transparency. It’s taxpayer money after all.
The commission has been pretty transparent. I think we would be better served with a few basic questions on the proposal before us... but I don't think that was the point.

Obviously being offered $5 million for the lease of land, along with a percentage of profits from the operation of the hotel - maybe the restaurant? - is interesting.

I can presume the $5 million is a one time payment, and the commission would like to use that in advancing the capital investment in Gunstock; but what about the profit sharing?

Would the profit sharing go toward the county budget? What is the profit sharing details? How due we prevent the hotel/restaurant operators from cooking the books? Just lots of questions for the taxpayer of Belknap County.

But I think to get more revenue... and maybe pay more to the county... Gunstock would need to add something to the venue.
John Mercier is offline  
Old 02-27-2022, 09:28 AM   #17
swnoel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 495
Thanks: 80
Thanked 180 Times in 109 Posts
Default

Those damn Republicans need to be removed and replaced with democrats... look how good things are in this country and the world now that Democrats are in control and things are back to normal as they promised.
swnoel is offline  
Old 02-27-2022, 09:46 AM   #18
Garcia
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 480
Thanks: 102
Thanked 215 Times in 132 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by swnoel View Post
Those damn Republicans need to be removed and replaced with democrats... look how good things are in this country and the world now that Democrats are in control and things are back to normal as they promised.
Exactly - cleaning up after a four year mess!
Garcia is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Garcia For This Useful Post:
DotRat (02-27-2022)
Old 02-27-2022, 10:35 AM   #19
fatlazyless
Senior Member
 
fatlazyless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 7,976
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 262
Thanked 870 Times in 626 Posts
Default

John McCain: Russia is a 'gas station masquerading as a country' ..... http://www.theweek.com/speedreads/45...rading-country
__________________
.... age-70 & suffering terrible chronic tinnitus ... omg!
fatlazyless is offline  
Old 02-27-2022, 10:59 AM   #20
FlyingScot
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Tuftonboro and Sudbury, MA
Posts: 1,789
Thanks: 920
Thanked 770 Times in 468 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by swnoel View Post
Those damn Republicans need to be removed and replaced with democrats... look how good things are in this country and the world now that Democrats are in control and things are back to normal as they promised.
Nobody has said that. Actually, I pretty much said the opposite--that any normal liberal or conservative proposal would be good to consider. The issue is not that these guys are Republican--there are many fine Republican politicians in NH, and many fine Democrats. The issues is that these guys are anti-American. Here is normal Republican NH House Speaker Sherman Packard denouncing racist secessionist views expressed by Michael Sylvia

https://www.nhpr.org/nh-news/2021-09...sylvia-belmont
FlyingScot is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to FlyingScot For This Useful Post:
Leoskeys (02-28-2022)
Old 02-27-2022, 02:13 PM   #21
Descant
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Merrimack and Welch Island
Posts: 3,365
Thanks: 985
Thanked 1,266 Times in 804 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Mercier View Post
The commission has been pretty transparent. I think we would be better served with a few basic questions on the proposal before us... but I don't think that was the point.

Obviously being offered $5 million for the lease of land, along with a percentage of profits from the operation of the hotel - maybe the restaurant? - is interesting.

I can presume the $5 million is a one time payment, and the commission would like to use that in advancing the capital investment in Gunstock; but what about the profit sharing?

Would the profit sharing go toward the county budget? What is the profit sharing details? How due we prevent the hotel/restaurant operators from cooking the books? Just lots of questions for the taxpayer of Belknap County.

But I think to get more revenue... and maybe pay more to the county... Gunstock would need to add something to the venue.
I would expect many of these questions to be answered by following the precedent set by the State of NH leasing Sunapee to a private firm ~20 years ago. Lots of experience there, mostly successful, with a similar proposal for a land swap and condo expansion, as well as incorporating Mittersill into the Cannon area.
Descant is offline  
Old 02-27-2022, 03:53 PM   #22
John Mercier
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Posts: 1,234
Thanks: 0
Thanked 238 Times in 206 Posts
Default

They may have answered them... just the public reporting may be lacking on the details of the lease.

I would be supportive of $5 million of for the lease in perpetuity with a percentage of revenue (the Meals & Rental works on that basis) toward the county budget.

Obviously, I would still want the County Commissioners and Delegates to keep a lid on their spending; the stronger revenue offsetting the amounts to be raised by property taxes.

It isn't like a lot of private investment is looking toward Gunstock.
John Mercier is offline  
Old 02-28-2022, 10:38 PM   #23
map
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: The Weirs
Posts: 195
Thanks: 155
Thanked 61 Times in 45 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingScot View Post
Nobody has said that. Actually, I pretty much said the opposite--that any normal liberal or conservative proposal would be good to consider. The issue is not that these guys are Republican--there are many fine Republican politicians in NH, and many fine Democrats. The issues is that these guys are anti-American. Here is normal Republican NH House Speaker Sherman Packard denouncing racist secessionist views expressed by Michael Sylvia

https://www.nhpr.org/nh-news/2021-09...sylvia-belmont
Lies. I know these people and they are not anti American. They are anti corruption and anti tyranny and FOR freedom and fiscal responsibility. Secession bill sent a message.
map is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to map For This Useful Post:
subaruliving (03-04-2022), swnoel (03-01-2022)
Old 02-28-2022, 11:34 PM   #24
John Mercier
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Posts: 1,234
Thanks: 0
Thanked 238 Times in 206 Posts
Default

The message that we are stupid?

And by definition, if you try to secede from America, you are anti-American... because it certainly isn't pro-American.
John Mercier is offline  
Old 03-01-2022, 07:23 AM   #25
swnoel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 495
Thanks: 80
Thanked 180 Times in 109 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingScot View Post
Nobody has said that. Actually, I pretty much said the opposite--that any normal liberal or conservative proposal would be good to consider. The issue is not that these guys are Republican--there are many fine Republican politicians in NH, and many fine Democrats. The issues is that these guys are anti-American. Here is normal Republican NH House Speaker Sherman Packard denouncing racist secessionist views expressed by Michael Sylvia

https://www.nhpr.org/nh-news/2021-09...sylvia-belmont
It's pretty clear that the Democrats are at war against those that refuse to accept we're a Democracy (even though we're a Republic). I've never seen this kind of hatred in my life! What we're experiencing now is what you get when you order a president through the mail. The Democrat Party is clearly becoming a lynch mob and anyone in their way will become a casualty to their demands... I'm glad they finally defeated Covid... but, should I thank their buddy Putin for this instead?
swnoel is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to swnoel For This Useful Post:
subaruliving (03-04-2022)
Old 03-01-2022, 08:33 AM   #26
gillygirl
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 692
Thanks: 713
Thanked 286 Times in 188 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by swnoel View Post
It's pretty clear that the Democrats are at war against those that refuse to accept we're a Democracy (even though we're a Republic). I've never seen this kind of hatred in my life! What we're experiencing now is what you get when you order a president through the mail. The Democrat Party is clearly becoming a lynch mob and anyone in their way will become a casualty to their demands... I'm glad they finally defeated Covid... but, should I thank their buddy Putin for this instead?

A presidential republic and democracy go hand in hand. From wiki:

The primary positions of power within a republic are attained through democracy or a mix of democracy with oligarchy or autocracy rather than being unalterably occupied by any given family lineage or group.


Sent from my iPad using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
__________________
GG
gillygirl is offline  
Old 03-01-2022, 11:21 AM   #27
I.C.Isles
Member
 
I.C.Isles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 31
Thanks: 46
Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts
Default

Some other thoughts from old dead guys that were interesting…

Alexander Hamilton – Federal Convention, June 26, 1787

Democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where 51% of the people may take away the rights of the other 49%.

Thomas Jefferson

Democracy… while it lasts is more bloody than either aristocracy or monarchy. Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There is never a democracy that did not commit suicide.

John Adams

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app
I.C.Isles is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to I.C.Isles For This Useful Post:
subaruliving (03-04-2022)
Old 03-01-2022, 01:00 PM   #28
FlyingScot
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Tuftonboro and Sudbury, MA
Posts: 1,789
Thanks: 920
Thanked 770 Times in 468 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by swnoel View Post
It's pretty clear that the Democrats are at war against those that refuse to accept we're a Democracy (even though we're a Republic). I've never seen this kind of hatred in my life! What we're experiencing now is what you get when you order a president through the mail. The Democrat Party is clearly becoming a lynch mob and anyone in their way will become a casualty to their demands... I'm glad they finally defeated Covid... but, should I thank their buddy Putin for this instead?
Democrats have nothing to do with my post--I cited the Republican NH House Speaker criticizing Mike Sylvia's secessionist views. Also, as cited in the article, when Sylvia talks "tyranny" he's attacking Republican Governor Sununu.

Also odd that you suggest Democrats are buddies with Putin during a week when President Biden has been resolute and all Democrats and most Republicans have been equally tough. Although several prominent Republicans have spoken admiringly of Putin...

It's all good with me if you want to criticize Democrats on specific stuff they've actually done. But let's not criticize Democrats for stuff that Republicans have done.
FlyingScot is offline  
Old 03-01-2022, 01:02 PM   #29
John Mercier
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Posts: 1,234
Thanks: 0
Thanked 238 Times in 206 Posts
Default

That is why we use a Democratic Republic.

But what these gentlemen proposed was trying to rob a bank by holding a gun to their own heads and threatening to shoot if the teller didn't hand over the loot.
John Mercier is offline  
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:37 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions Inc.

This page was generated in 0.66622 seconds