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Old 06-03-2013, 08:16 PM   #1
Par Four
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Default Braid your own?

I noted that someone mentioned how cool the AnimatedKnots website is, so I checked it out. Just a short while later I now have replacements for my dock lines that I'd refined the lengths of over 12-years of tying up to the same dock.

Those original lines used knots to form the eyes at just the right lengths, and I'd always wanted to do it the right way.

The first eye splice braids i did were more Cub Scout than Eagle Scout ( no offense ) but they're plenty strong if not pretty. I used 3-strand nylon because that's what I had on hand. Next will be double braid eye splices, just need a fid.

Also made a Monkey Fist for the fun of it, not that I need one!

So, who else braids their own lines?
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Old 06-03-2013, 08:24 PM   #2
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Default Braiding

Many moons ago, everyone use to braid. Natural materials were a lot easier to braid than the synthetics we used now.

It was fun braiding. My dad was in the Navy during WWII and it was a requirement to learn braiding to earned seaman. He taught me to braid my lines when I was a youngster. Today lines comes already braided, yet I will occasionally braid my lines for a custom look.
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Old 06-03-2013, 09:07 PM   #3
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I do. I enjoy marlinspike seamanship. Fun way to kill time and make something useful.
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Old 06-04-2013, 05:54 PM   #4
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Default Not so fast, what happened here?

I made up so specific length dock lines and was pretty careful to get the lengths right.

I then took the shortest of the lines which is about 24" eye to eye and I wet the line and then put a length of pipe thru one eye and hooked the other over the garage door handle. I wanted to see how it might react to the load, expecting it to stretch, maybe...

After a couple hours of this load I didn't notice any stretch, so I took the pipe out and set the line aside.

Today the line has pretty much dried out and now is about 1-1/2" to 2" shorter than the original template line, which is not what I need it to be for the specific pole and cleat I will use it on.

The line is 3- strand 1/2" nylon by Wellington, which I expect to be fairly good quality stuff.

Nylon line shrinks? Guess it does because I see it. Maybe it takes a set after wet/dry loaded an unloaded cycles?

Last edited by Par Four; 06-04-2013 at 06:30 PM.
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Old 06-04-2013, 06:56 PM   #5
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Default Marlinespike Seamanship Lecture

I have been boating for over 40 years. I used to do "Splices" in my docklines...AND the "running rigging" on my sailboat.. The procedure was very satisfying.

I have NO Idea what "Braiding" means. For the past 20 years or so I have used a "Bowline" in the end of a (Three strand OR Braided) dockline....OR a Jib Sheet. Jib sheets are no stretch DACRON Braid.

Splicing a three strand nylon line is VERY different from splicing a "Braided" line....Three strand is pretty simple..... Braided line is much more complex and requires special tools and an interest in getting it right.

BTW: I am talking about the simple "Eye Splice". There are other/different splices as well. NB
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Old 06-04-2013, 07:05 PM   #6
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Default My Credentials

I have sailed to Bermuda and Return (Solo) on two occasions without issues over 30 years ago. Just bragging. NB
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Old 06-04-2013, 07:51 PM   #7
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Default Braid your own

My guess is that Par Four is actually 'splicing' the eyes, not 'braiding' becasuse he later mentioned going to a next level and needing a fid. The step up to making eye loops in 'braided' line is a big step from making eye loops in three-strand-twist.

Nylon line will change dimensions based on usage (wet, strain, drying, etc), and I always found that I had good luck using the "rubber snubbers" placed on the lines between the boat and the dock. These tended to absorb the initial shock of the pull on the lines when the waves and winds combined to put a strain on the docking harness.

Being able to splice is one of those skills that once you learn it you actually never forget it. I learned more than 60 years ago, and I boated, hiked, hauled items on a trailer, and made belts all during my life - but, I can't knit.
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Old 06-13-2013, 02:05 PM   #8
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Lightbulb

ttt for a friend. www.animatedknots.com
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Old 06-15-2013, 08:20 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camp guy View Post
My guess is that Par Four is actually 'splicing' the eyes, not 'braiding' becasuse he later mentioned going to a next level and needing a fid. The step up to making eye loops in 'braided' line is a big step from making eye loops in three-strand-twist.

Nylon line will change dimensions based on usage (wet, strain, drying, etc), and I always found that I had good luck using the "rubber snubbers" placed on the lines between the boat and the dock. These tended to absorb the initial shock of the pull on the lines when the waves and winds combined to put a strain on the docking harness.

Being able to splice is one of those skills that once you learn it you actually never forget it. I learned more than 60 years ago, and I boated, hiked, hauled items on a trailer, and made belts all during my life - but, I can't knit.
TOTALLY agree. I learned splicing a loop as a kid in sailing lessons!

I once did so for the dock line for a previous "friend" on Lake; they were never appreciated, because generally many don't understand the value of good splices or knots.

When I browse the displays at the Antique Boat Show, it's frightening to see the miserable methods to tie such boats! Winding + winding around a post is NOT A good knot! Good knots should be easily removed in case of emergency, or a need to remove quickly.
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Old 06-16-2013, 06:53 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by no-engine View Post

When I browse the displays at the Antique Boat Show, it's frightening to see the miserable methods to tie such boats! Winding + winding around a post is NOT A good knot! Good knots should be easily removed in case of emergency, or a need to remove quickly.
It's amazing how many boaters don't seem to know how to tie a cleat hitch. I walked all the common area docks in my neighborhood and saw that zero boats out of about twenty had a correct cleat hitch.
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Old 06-16-2013, 09:29 AM   #11
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And the clove hitch.
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Old 06-23-2013, 08:59 AM   #12
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Question "Braiding" = "Long-Splice" ?

I learned splicing from a book: my first few weren't pretty, but after a few end-splices and eye-splices, I felt confident enough to splice an eye-splice around a huge lakefront tree—using an old manila mooring line we'd just replaced. The line turned out to be just the right length to secure the wood panels removed from the family's homemade dock for the winter.

When I later short-spliced a matched set of four large mooring lines from nylon—even accounting for the size of the eye, and the "lost" part of the splice itself—they all turned out on the short side!



Quote:
Originally Posted by NHBUOY View Post
And the clove hitch.
The clove hitch and the bowline can be learned quickly and can handle most tasks around the lake. The clove hitch is not to be used long-term.

The bowline is tricky, but once you've got the first and last lines parallel, you're done!



The item I was searching for has been sold out—maybe for good—but here's a different solution to "dockline managment"—from YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGUd..._embedded#t=0s

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Old 06-23-2013, 06:49 PM   #13
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Default You're right

I stand corrected. The more widely used terminology clearly is to splice an eye.

When I decided to learn how to make my own lines, I did my first Google search with "braided..." And like with all things-Google, I got tons of hits, and off I went....

BTW the bowline is my go-to knot. I use it a ton, everywhere. I don't know about any 1-handed fancyness, but its been a knot that I could 'see' and understand from the first effort.
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Old 07-05-2013, 04:49 AM   #14
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Thumbs up Call it an "Art Form"...

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I stand corrected. The more widely used terminology clearly is to splice an eye... BTW the bowline is my go-to knot. I use it a ton, everywhere. I don't know about any 1-handed fanciness, but its been a knot that I could 'see' and understand from the first effort.
The bowline retains almost as much original line-strength as a splice, and is reknowned for "never jamming". However, after being stressed by oversized-boat wakes, there are times when even the bowline can't be untied. In those cases, one strike with a hammer will release it. The use of a hammer can also release other knots, but not as readily. Just to be on the safe side, re-tie the knot a few inches further away from the stressed part.

For those interested, the easiest splice with which to begin this "art-form" is the end-splice. Unravel the three strands, and one after the other, lay each strand across its neighbor. After a few minutes of figuring out where the next "tuck" is supposed to go -- you're done!
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Old 07-05-2013, 07:16 PM   #15
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Graduated from Mass Maritime...my degree is in knots!!!!
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Old 07-25-2013, 01:56 PM   #16
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Default Mma

What year did you come out of MMA
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Old 07-25-2013, 06:59 PM   #17
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Depends on who you ask...class of 1999, graduated in 2000
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Old 08-05-2013, 05:03 AM   #18
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Thumbs up The Versatile Bowline—("Bowl-in")

I was especially impressed by this "whipping" found on a dock line. I suppose they're done by machine today, but this one is still impressive:



Quote:
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"...When I browse the displays at the Antique Boat Show, it's frightening to see the miserable methods to tie such boats! ...Good knots should be easily removed in case of emergency, or a need to remove quickly.
That would describe the bowline best. 'Though a bit on the bulky side, it's so versatile, I use the bowline to connect lines together. When necessary, they'll loosen right away.

Woodsy taught me how to tie my first bowline.
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Old 08-05-2013, 08:46 AM   #19
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Default The bowline knot....

That photo is not a bowline! Maybe there is one but out of the photo.

BTW. the Utube video posted a few comments back, is NOT good! Appears that it would not be easily removed from dock, since the forces are on the part towards the boat - totally wrong.

When a good knot is done, there will be no tension on line to undo it.
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Old 08-05-2013, 09:05 AM   #20
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The knot pictured in post #18 is "Two Half Hitches" with an extra "safety" knot. NB

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_half_hitches
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Old 08-05-2013, 06:16 PM   #21
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Default A Reference

Here's a Bowline: I use it in one end of my docklines. No Splices needed. Feed it through an Open Throat cleat and loop it over the cleat....I also used it at the clew end of my jib sheats. A Metal Snapshackle at the clew end of a jibsheet is Lethal if it whacks you in the head while you are up on the foredeck trying to get the jib down. NB

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowline
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Old 08-05-2013, 06:25 PM   #22
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ApS View Post

snip

Woodsy taught me how to tie my first bowline.

Hmmm, not looking like a bowline to me APS, was Woodsy mad at you when he was showing you??
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Old 08-05-2013, 07:49 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by NoBozo View Post
Here's a Bowline: I use it in one end of my docklines. No Splices needed. Feed it through an Open Throat cleat and loop it over the cleat....I also used it at the clew end of my jib sheats. A Metal Snapshackle at the clew end of a jibsheet is Lethal if it whacks you in the head while you are up on the foredeck trying to get the jib down. NB

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowline
Exactly correct. Thanks for finding the correct picture!
For your dock lines, an eye splice can be for same use.

I've sailed for over half century, and totally agree about the jib sheet lines.
Been in many situations on foredeck.
Briefly! Thanks much!
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Old 01-13-2014, 06:03 AM   #24
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Default Short Splice on Corvina...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave R View Post
It's amazing how many boaters don't seem to know how to tie a cleat hitch. I walked all the common area docks in my neighborhood and saw that zero boats out of about twenty had a correct cleat hitch.
• I've read different versions. I take one complete turn—so the line touches all around—and then make the equivalent of a clove hitch. (Meaning, a "flip" around each end of the cleat, making the two "flips" flat and even).

• When you run an eye splice through the center of the cleat, it tends to take a "set": while it seems secure, it can back out! Used in this way, the "eye" in the splice should be just large enough to require some firm manipulation over the cleat.

• I stumbled into a photograph of the brand-new, but ill-fated, US submarine, USS Corvina, showing the use of a "short splice" in what appears to be manila line.

You can bet that this sailor made a "correct" cleat hitch!

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Old 01-14-2014, 03:31 AM   #25
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Talking Yea...

ApS.....def not a bowline!! Don't know where your info came from, but the former boyscout in me def says 2 sets of double half hitches with an extra locking knot.....
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Old 01-14-2014, 07:31 AM   #26
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Red face ...another error...!

Quote:
Originally Posted by glennsteely View Post
ApS.....def not a bowline!! Don't know where your info came from, but the former boyscout in me def says 2 sets of double half hitches with an extra locking knot.....
Geesh, gtagrp will say I'm wrong again!

So, I posted the wrong photo—here's the correct photo:

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Old 01-14-2014, 08:31 AM   #27
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Again, not a bowline. That is half a figure 8 end loop.

The tell is in the tail. The tail of a bowline points into the loop, not down the line.

The knots you are creating would bind on pressure, making them difficult to remove. That is the beauty of the bowline, no matter how much pressure is applied it can be removed with one hand!

http://www.animatedknots.com/bowline/
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