Winnipesaukee.com "Boating" forum "fully moderated"

[Winnipesaukee]

All posts in that forum must now be approved by the Webmaster before they are visible. What is the reasoning for this?

Mr. Webmaster, what exactly are you trying to hide?

Moderation is not banning or censorship. It just gives the moderator a chance to review and approve or reject a member's posts before they appear on the forum.

Unfortunately, this is the definition of censorship. Just because you say your actions are not censoring anyone, does not mean that you are right. It is your opinion, which is just as valuable as anybody else's here (which you can now "pre-censor").

The posts on this website have frequently been used in news sources across the Lakes Region, the state, and in some cases, the entire country. By censoring us, you are also contributing to the censorship of those news sources, which thrive on the American free press rights found nowhere else in the world. Your forum policy, quite frankly, should mirror the First Amendment. If an entire country can enjoy freedom of the press without any negative consequences, then why can't a puny online forum?

I understand that you own this site and its content, but from a moral standpoint, this is very irresponsible of you.

[secondcurve]

Winnipesaukee:

I'm not sure I agree with you. However, perhaps another way to handle the problem is the one strike and you are out rule as oppossed to having all posts held until reviewed by the moderator. The way this would work is everyone's posts would appear online immediately until they violated the rules then they would be placed in the penalty box.

There are probably only 4 or 5 posters that are the troublemakers so once in the "box" civility would return to the boating section.

[Newbiesaukee]

Admittedly, I may not have thought this totally through. However, as pointed out, the owner certainly has the legal right to do this. I do not see this as a "moral" issue in any event nor a First Amendment issue.

From an "ethical" point of view, my feeling is that both the strength and the curse of the Internet is the anonymity of it. People would never say some of the things they say and the way they say it if they had to identify themselves, as they do in a newspaper and other media.

"Irresponsible" is also very harsh in describing the moderator's actions, which I support.

People who contribute to the Forum do agree to the guidelines and the moderator can set the guidelines. As they say, if folks want to "brawl" they can "take it outside."

[Skip]

I think it is time for several complainers to take a moment and return to the home page to review the mission statement of this wonderful website:

The Winnipesaukee Forum is provided as a free service to anyone interested in the Lakes Region. It is not a free-for-all forum like many internet message boards. Although it is open to everyone and we encourage your participation, we insist that posts are relevant to the Lakes Region of New Hampshire, and that members do not violate the rules & guidelines.

The stated goal, mission and purpose of the Winnipesaukee Forum is:
"To facilitate communication and an exchange of information which is productive and beneficial for those interested in Lake Winnipesaukee and the Lakes Region of New Hampshire."

To that end we watch carefully what is posted and we reserve the right to moderate, restrict, edit or delete messages for any reason. We will use our judgement to moderate these forums in the way we feel is most appropriate to facilitate our stated goal. By using these forums, you agree to abide by these conditions and accept our moderation decisions.

Our hope is that the Winnipesaukee Forum will provide a friendly and entertaining environment for the enjoyment of anyone interested in Lake Winnipesaukee. Please feel free to join in or just look around!


The last sentence in paragraph number three deserves repeating (for some):

...By using these forums, you agree to abide by these conditions and accept our moderation decisions...


It doesn't get any plainer or simpler than that, and in my humble opinion the webmaster here has no need to explain this situation any further!

[no-engine]

I participate in several other totally unrelated forums; one requires a small annual fee; another forum has two areas, one is members (membership in the international professional association) only and other is open. Both are related to very specific industries.

In addition to the owners there are several "moderators", whose volunteer task is to monitor and keep posts on subject, and at an honest level.

I have seen posts here by people who seem to think they "know it all". I have seen posts her from people who are very informed of the subject.

Enough said; we should not be arguing the pros & cons of moderators. In fact, let the moderator(s) perform their tasks, keeping all honest and on subject.

[ApS]

1) We should worry much more about what happened in the Wisconsin Legislature this week.

2) This topic is already being discussed properly in the "Site Support" Forum. (Although a tad "light" in "Support").

[VtSteve]

Originally Posted by Winnipesaukee

All posts in that forum must now be approved by the Webmaster before they are visible. What is the reasoning for this?

Mr. Webmaster, what exactly are you trying to hide?

Two-way street and commincation for people that don't want to read my lengthy post

I've been asked to edit or delete my posts perhaps a half-dozen times in over 16 years of online forum participation. A couple of times they were deleted because I quoted some offensive or deleted post. That's how it's been ever since I've been online.

I fully understand there are obvious hot-button issues that should not be mentioned anywhere, just leads to problems. Obviously, we have some here as well. The thread that led up to this began very well, very well-intentioned, all of that. It developed into off-topic attacks, other hot-button issues, and was going downhill fast. It spread.

Personal communications, IMHO, work best. If it's just a few posters that simply want to antagonize and bait others they know they can stir up, that's best dealt with privately, or through deletion or moderation. If a moderator says to stop, and why, it should be taken seriously. If continued anyway, penalties are levied out. I have no issue with that at all, it's the online law.

If some can't stand reading about a NWZ issue, loading ramps, mooring ball restrictions or the like, well I have no answer for that but the obvious. I suspect Don has received ideological complaints along those lines, but have no direct knowledge of it. Most everyone wants to be able to offer up opinions in an adult manner without mean-spirited attacks veiled as responses. Shout downs serve no purpose, and are a veiled attempt at censorship in and of themselves.

I have no problem with Don's right to do what he has done at all, it's his forum, to operate as he sees fit. I would, however, appreciate personal communication to the offenders, including myself. Someone stated I didn't Get it. I think I do, but maybe not. There are only two choices here.

1) If I posted something outside the boundaries of acceptable forum behavior ( and I always want to know personally if I do that, because I would feel truly bad, and delete or modify it as necessary). I would expect posts that quoted me to be deleted as well, with a follow up private response.

2) There are a variety of topics that some don't want to see on the forum at all. That's a tougher one. I can certainly understand mean-spirited discussions, personal attacks, issues that always flare up into mass chaos. Understood. If it's one of outside perception, which means only good thoughts and no debate of ideas should take place, that's an entirely different matter. I've seen some of these folks posts result in no outrage or objection. IMO, recent activity could have been dealt with in a private manner. Much less work than moderating an entire forum.


I assume Don gets a lot of pressure from people that don't participate in threads, but complain loudly. He has to address the masses for sure. But the problem with this method is that well-meaning people are left wondering what they could post without fear of offending someone. Don't laugh, you'd be surprised at how far ideological roots go. It goes way beyond the obvious contentious discussion many of us think it does. Some people will post their broad-based opinion on a topic, even attacking a group, and view any attempt to refute or debate that post as a direct attack. Trust me, it happens, a lot. Some people view anything short of total agreement as offensive.

I hope I'm wrong, and it really is black and white in nature. I'd hate to think a civilized, informative thread about a proposed NWZ could be shut down because of mob rule behind the scenes. I certainly understand what went wrong there, I really do. And I don't condone it at all.

If anyone wants to enlighten me, feel free to do so.

Just to make certain I didn't offend anyone, I deleted most of my posts, no matter how innocent or harmless. Since I never received any communication, I just assumed.


The posts stating this forum's terms and conditions is pretty clear. There were posts that directly violated those terms. They should have been deleted, with a follow-up PM to the offending author IMO. If it happens to be one of mine, so be it. I will take care of it immediately if so informed. That's just the way it's universally done. Forgive me in advance if that statement offends anyone. But it truly is a two-way street.

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by Winnipesaukee

All posts in that forum must now be approved by the Webmaster before they are visible. What is the reasoning for this?

Mr. Webmaster, what exactly are you trying to hide?



Unfortunately, this is the definition of censorship. Just because you say your actions are not censoring anyone, does not mean that you are right. It is your opinion, which is just as valuable as anybody else's here (which you can now "pre-censor").

The posts on this website have frequently been used in news sources across the Lakes Region, the state, and in some cases, the entire country. By censoring us, you are also contributing to the censorship of those news sources, which thrive on the American free press rights found nowhere else in the world. Your forum policy, quite frankly, should mirror the First Amendment. If an entire country can enjoy freedom of the press without any negative consequences, then why can't a puny online forum?

I understand that you own this site and its content, but from a moral standpoint, this is very irresponsible of you.

Winnipesaukee, think about this for a minute, if you were being censored this posting you made and thread would not exist.

Enough said... please just let it go.

[Skipper of the Sea Que]

Originally Posted by Winnipesaukee

Mr. Webmaster, what exactly are you trying to hide?

Unfortunately, this is the definition of censorship. Just because you say your actions are not censoring anyone, does not mean that you are right. It is your opinion, which is just as valuable as anybody else's here (which you can now "pre-censor").

I can't speak for Don. I can tell you that I consider him to be VERY LIBERAL in what he has allowed to be posted on his site.

I am GLAD he is "hiding" (not the word I would choose) or preventing some inflammatory, rude, unfriendly, off-topic, personal attacks and unnecessary posts that do NOT add to the information or the spirit of the Winnie dot com community. They do not conform to appropriate debate. IMO he's not hiding information or ideas. It is the way some of those ideas are presented. Some are/were in a very combative, nasty and unfriendly (often repetitive) manner.

Re-read Skip's posts. Skip should be a Judge. He is impartial and tells it like it is. He echos the thoughts of many of us.

As one who was around here when the Winnie dot com forums started I am sorry to see things getting to this point and I fully understand the motivation. Whether you (anyone) like it or not. It's Webmaster's system. He can run it as he sees fit to do. He bends over backwards to make this available to all of us. He doesn't have to let anyone post anything but during my years here he has been very fair (and yes, I've been moderated and edited a few -rare- times over the years - justifiably so as I occasionally have walked a fine line .

Accept it. Webmaster Don is a benevolent dictator

Thanks Don!

[Blue Thunder]

Originally Posted by Winnipesaukee

All posts in that forum must now be approved by the Webmaster before they are visible. What is the reasoning for this?

Mr. Webmaster, what exactly are you trying to hide?



Unfortunately, this is the definition of censorship. Just because you say your actions are not censoring anyone, does not mean that you are right. It is your opinion, which is just as valuable as anybody else's here (which you can now "pre-censor").

The posts on this website have frequently been used in news sources across the Lakes Region, the state, and in some cases, the entire country. By censoring us, you are also contributing to the censorship of those news sources, which thrive on the American free press rights found nowhere else in the world. Your forum policy, quite frankly, should mirror the First Amendment. If an entire country can enjoy freedom of the press without any negative consequences, then why can't a puny online forum?

I understand that you own this site and its content, but from a moral standpoint, this is very irresponsible of you.

Winnipesaukee,

Your remarks are out of line.
Plain and simple, this site belongs to Don. He's got a lot invested here. He makes the rules. It's his sandbox. If you don't like it, take your shovel and bucket and go home.

Blue Thunder

[Chris Exley]

I usually don't post a lot, because many of the topics are related to Winni and I spend my time on Mirror Lake, but I read many of the posts.

As has been stated by many, Don owns the site, and has the right to do with it whatever he wants. But, I think that there is something else that people should keep in mind. I am pretty sure that the site funds itself through the advertising that is displayed on site. If the tone of conversations turns negative enough, and it makes people self-police themselves by not coming to the forums (as has been stated by many people that do), it may affect the amount that Don can charge for the advertising.

If this were a coffee shop, and the discussions got loud and out of hand, Don would have every right to tell you to tone it down or get out, because your brand of discussions might be harming the overall atmosphere of his business.

There are plenty of un-moderated places on the internet where you can express anything you want.

Just my 2 cents.

[BroadHopper]

I am able to express my opinions and contribute my ideas to the forum without someone blasting me and calling me names.

Let's leave it up to Don.

[Kamper]

I think this thread should be merged with the other thread or vice-versa... http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...ad.php?t=10564

No need to be repetetive and redundant.

[Yosemite Sam]

Originally Posted by Kamper

I think this thread should be merged with the other thread or vice-versa... http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...ad.php?t=10564

No need to be repetetive and redundant.

I think it should disappear into the sunset and never return.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam

I think it should disappear into the sunset and never return.

Now, now,,, you wouldn’t want moderation to become censorship would we,,,

Or would this be one of them heavy handed posts that caused the site owners to have to resort to moderation,,,

Or maybe I "just don’t get it,,," Well could be rabbit, could be,,,

Maybe you can explain it,,,,

If you talk (post) nice, I might read it,,,,

And if it makes sense, maybe I'll even be persuaded,,,

Maybe,,, maybe,,,

Just not holding my breath on it, not yet anyway,,,

[jmen24]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

Now, now,,, you wouldn’t want moderation to become censorship would we,,,

Or would this be one of them heavy handed posts that caused the site owners to have to resort to moderation,,,

Or maybe I "just don’t get it,,," Well could be rabbit, could be,,,

Maybe you can explain it,,,,

If you talk (post) nice, I might read it,,,,

And if it makes sense, maybe I'll even be persuaded,,,

Maybe,,, maybe,,,

Just not holding my breath on it, not yet anyway,,,

XCR- don't worry to much about Sam, he just likes to give his one line opinion and walk away without any real discussion. I have heard his soup is to die for.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by jmen24

XCR- don't worry to much about Sam, he just likes to give his one line opinion and walk away without any real discussion. I have heard his soup is to die for.

No wories here, sometimes I just take the bait,,,

Hopefully I spit out the hook before I get reeled in too far,,,

Thanks for the words of wisdom!