Increased Marine Patrol Enforcements?

[White Rook]

I was at the marina over the weekend and was told by several individuals that MP has really stepped up the rules enforcement especially in the loud exhaust decibel rule. Two separate boaters stated that their 21' and 23' boats which were just leaving the Weirs docks were blue lighted by MP even before the boat was near the MP boat and the officer was quoted as saying "These brand of boats are known to be loud". Has anyone heard of similar comments?

[robmac]

Yes,I've heard the samething from many marinas,some saying they are reluctant to take those boats in trade for fear of having them long term in inventory.One particular owner has said for years it isn't a museum so they are carefull and have been for some time now.

[NHskier]

I had a vessel safety check done on Saturday by Lakes Region Power Squadron. The inspectors said to be very aware of the 150 foot rule as Marine Patrol was really going after people for that, and it represented a very high percentage of their stops.

From observation - I watched from the Weirs boardwalk on Friday of bike week while 4(!) Marine Patrol units pulled boaters over left and right. It sure looked like most were for violations of the 150 foot rule.

NHskier

[Rattlesnake Guy]

On Sunday I was out in the surf making my way back to the island. I saw 2 boats on my 3 mile trek. Both were MP. I could not help but thinking of the thread where we are discussing the great reduction in boat traffic that seems to be happening. I wondered if that means we need less MP to deal with the lower level of boating or did we not have enough when there were more boats and less space between them. I do appreciate the work the MP do to try and keep us safe.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by White Rook

"...Two separate boaters stated that their 21' and 23' boats which were just leaving the Weirs docks were blue lighted by MP even before the boat was near the MP boat and the officer was quoted as saying "These brand of boats are known to be loud". Has anyone heard of similar comments...?

Was Crownline mentioned as a possibility?

[HomeWood]

Sorry in advance if this is a stupid question, but what exactly does the 150' rule mean? Do you have to stay away and pass other boats at that distance when on plane or something? It doesn't seem like we have that rule here. I went to the lake the past two days and Sunday was the busiest day. People will come straight at you and cross your path, fly right up behind you and pass. I looked on the New Hampshire online boating course and didn't see it.

[Smitty1]

within 150 feet of another boat/town docks, etc you are supposed to be at headway speed.

Smitty1

[Mee-n-Mac]

Originally Posted by HomeWood

Sorry in advance if this is a stupid question, but what exactly does the 150' rule mean? Do you have to stay away and pass other boats at that distance when on plane or something? It doesn't seem like we have that rule here. I went to the lake the past two days and Sunday was the busiest day. People will come straight at you and cross your path, fly right up behind you and pass. I looked on the New Hampshire online boating course and didn't see it.

Almost. If you are within 150' of pretty much anything; another boat, a dock, a swimmer, the shore, etc ... you must be at No Wake Speed (NWS) which is defined as the slowest speed you can go and retain steering or no more than 6 MPH. So when passing, crossing or overtaking another boat if you want to stay on-plane (and stay legal ) you need to be more than 150' away.

[HomeWood]

Ok, I knew it was something like that, but I guess I never considered calling the safe distance I keep as the "150 ft rule". Thanks. I wish I had a dollar for every time I've seen that violation. Ok, I have to admit that I am sure at one time or another I've done it too by mistake ....

[NightWing]

Originally Posted by Mee-n-Mac

Almost. If you are within 150' of pretty much anything; another boat, a dock, a swimmer, the shore, etc ... you must be at No Wake Speed (NWS) which is defined as the slowest speed you can go and retain steering or no more than 6 MPH. So when passing, crossing or overtaking another boat if you want to stay on-plane (and stay legal ) you need to be more than 150' away.

Correction, the actual law says "or 6 MPH." There are some conditions, on some bodies of water where the slowest speed necessary to maintain steerage is in excess of 6MPH. When those conditions do not exist, 6 MPH applies.

The wording was changed several years ago.

[Silver Duck]

Has anybody else noticed that cruising along at or near headway speed seems to be an invitation to Captain Bonehead to ignore the 150 ft. rule?

Between the cost of gas, trying to be a good neighbor, and having discovered that 6 - 7 mph is a very relaxing speed to run at, I've been cruising in that range a lot this year; especially in areas like the slot between Bear Island and Meredith Neck and in and around the forty islands.

The downside is that the fact that I'm not pushing much wake seems to be an invitation to Capt. B to whip by me far too closely; lately it seems that I'm lucky to be given 50 ft of clearance, let alone 150. One idiot in a bowrider shaved that down to about 15 feet this past weekend!

It's not that I'm being endangered; so long as they miss me. But, it's annoying to realize that if I'm at 7 mph and hold course and speed as required when being overtaken, I'm technically in violation of the 150 ft. rule!

Silver Duck

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Silver Duck

"...Has anybody else noticed that cruising along at or near headway speed seems to be an invitation to Captain Bonehead to ignore the 150 ft. rule? ..."

You mean the same speed that my sailboat travels at?

Thanks for being a good neighbor, and welcome to the "near-headway-speed" club!

[The Worm]

I was on the lake last weekend, heading into Alton Bay just off Sandy Point near the sandbar. There was a bass boat (Ranger, Nitro style) towing a disabled PWC with the rider still on the PWC, maybe needed for steerage - I'm not familiar? I wanted to give them some space, and in an effort not to capsize the PWC with my wake I went as far right as I could toward the spar marker near the sandbar. Three boats, all Formulas - appeared to be together - came right up the middle between me and the bass boat at approximately 40-45mph. Clearly violated the 150' rule between me and the bass boat, and were very close together bow-to-stern. MP was right there in clear sight and did nothing. Impossible they could have missed it visually.

[RamJet]

We were on the lake for around 10 hours this weekend and saw a lot more MP presence and MP blue lights along with lots more boats.

At times there were 2 MP boats near Weirs and several in Paugus Bay. Many of the MP boat with blue lights were with PWCs and drivers that looked younger than 18.

[Gavia immer]

Originally Posted by The Worm

Three boats, all Formulas - appeared to be together - came right up the middle between me and the bass boat at approximately 40-45mph. Clearly violated the 150' rule between me and the bass boat, and were very close together bow-to-stern. MP was right there in clear sight and did nothing. Impossible they could have missed it visually.

They're not listening, either. There are plenty of loud boats.

[ITD]

Originally Posted by NightWing

Correction, the actual law says "or 6 MPH." There are some conditions, on some bodies of water where the slowest speed necessary to maintain steerage is in excess of 6MPH. When those conditions do not exist, 6 MPH applies.

The wording was changed several years ago.

What conditions would those be???

[Skip]

Originally Posted by ITD

What conditions would those be???

Tidal waters for one, here on the seacoast....going against the tidal flow on occasion requires speeds in excess of 6 MPH.

[MJM]

We definitely noticed more MP all last week. Good visible presence at the Alton fireworks, and watched them monitoring / pulling boats in the continuous line going into Paugus Bay.

Also watched one spend about an hour checking every mooring for stickers in Jockey Cove.

[ITD]

Originally Posted by Skip

Tidal waters for one, here on the seacoast....going against the tidal flow on occasion requires speeds in excess of 6 MPH.

Thanks skip.

[SIKSUKR]

Actually Skip,I'l; disagree a little bit with you.Relative to the water,the speed against the flow could be more than 6mph.Relative to the land it might be a lot less.I think going with the tidal flow would actually require a higher speed relative to the land to maintain control.
This brings up an interesting question.If speed on water is clocked with radar guns it would be relative to the land.If I'm going with the tidal flow and look at my speedo which is based on water flowing by the boat,my speedo might say I'm going 25mph while a radar gun has me at 35mph.Interesting angle that I had not thought about before.

[NightWing]

If the southbound current is running @6mph along the shore and your northbound boat is running @6mph over the water you are not going anywhere. A speed over water greater than 6mph would be necessary to make any headway relative to the land.

How about this...................now you are heading south on the same river which is flowing @6mph. If you do NOTHING, you are at 6mph, at the mercy of the current. You can't even steer. In that case, you would have to power up and travel faster than the current in order to maintain steerage. And that is what is meant by the term "the slowest speed possible to maintain steerage OR 6mph."

[AC2717]

Originally Posted by NightWing

If the southbound current is running @6mph along the shore and your northbound boat is running @6mph over the water you are not going anywhere. A speed over water greater than 6mph would be necessary to make any headway relative to the land.

How about this...................now you are heading south on the same river which is flowing @6mph. If you do NOTHING, you are at 6mph, at the mercy of the current. You can't even steer. In that case, you would have to power up and travel faster than the current in order to maintain steerage. And that is what is meant by the term "the slowest speed possible to maintain steerage OR 6mph."

If one boat left from The Margate at1:30pm at 28mph and another from Wolfboro at at 1:45pm at 32pmh at what point will they meet lololololololol

[SIKSUKR]

That was exactly my point in my last post Nightwing.

[NightWing]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

That was exactly my point in my last post Nightwing.

Yes, unfortunately, I didn't see your post until after I had made mine. I started my post and had to leave it for a while and then finish it when I returned to the computer. In the meanwhile, you slipped in the back door. Oh well, belt and suspenders approach.

[parrothead]

Originally Posted by Gavia immer

They're not listening, either. There are plenty of loud boats.

My father and I were stopped the year before last because his Sea Ray bowrider was too loud at headway speed. The boat was sold to my parents with a switch for the exhaust to go through the hull or through the props. The officer told us that the boat was too loud, and asked to look into the engine compartment, where he found the switch mechanism. Now right or wrong we didn't know the switch was illegal. The MP officer was nice and gave us a warning. The swtich had to be disabled with the exhaust running through the props, an appointment was made to have the boat decible tested a week later. If it didn't pass then he would have to pay a fine. To make a long story endless, after the MP officer was finished with us we went in opposite directions. He went back to sit off the Meredith Docks and we continued to head down Meredith bay. As we got to be about 300 feet apart a GFB with through stearn pipes came between us and the officer and began to throttle up. Now this boat was considerably louder than our Sea Ray and is getting louder by the minute. The MP officer didn't even turn around to look at the boat and kept heading back towards the docks. So now my Dad and I are confused, did the loudness of our boat damage the MP officers hearing so he could no longer hear? The only thing that we could think of was that he knew that Sea Ray had shipped boats to the Winni with this switch and he stopped us not because of the noise, but for the switch. So I guess there is a chance that they are still looking for certain boat brands to stop for the noise level.

[NightWing]

There are two different laws in play here. First of all, switchable exhaust systems are illegal in New Hampshire, regardless of the sound level. The db level is a separate issue altogether. The allowable sound level is determined by the year of the engine manufacture. In most cases, this is the same year the boat was built, unless the boat has been repowered. Throw in the third law that requires mufflers or underwater exhaust and you can understand that noise enforcement is quite involved.

For the record, through the transom exhausts are not illegal as long as there are mufflers installed in the pipes and the resulting noise level is within the requirements for that model year boat. FYI, all boats built since December 31, 1981 are required to meet the same sound level, which is 82dba @50 feet. Recently, a static idle test has been implemented as a supplement to the 50 foot test. That level is higher due to the nature of the test.

There is an exception to the muffler rule regarding classic or antique boats. Those vessels are exempt from mufflers as long as they do not exceed the sound level for their vintage, which could be as high as 86dba measured at 50 feet.

[Gavia immer]

Originally Posted by parrothead

The MP officer didn't even turn around to look at the boat and kept heading back towards the docks. So now my Dad and I are confused, did the loudness of our boat damage the MP officers hearing so he could no longer hear?

The loudness of the MP inboards themselves are enough that the MPs might not have heard even louder boats in their vicinity!

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by parrothead

. Now this boat was considerably louder than our Sea Ray and is getting louder by the minute. The MP officer didn't even turn around to look at the boat and kept heading back towards the docks. So now my Dad and I are confused, did the loudness of our boat damage the MP officers hearing so he could no longer hear? The only thing that we could think of was that he knew that Sea Ray had shipped boats to the Winni with this switch and he stopped us not because of the noise, but for the switch. So I guess there is a chance that they are still looking for certain boat brands to stop for the noise level.

I'd guess nearly any late model bowider with through-hull exhaust also has a switchable exhaust. The other boat probably did not have switchable exhaust (dumb law eh?) He went for the boat owner that was obvioiusly flaunting the law and probably gave a warning because you didn't know the law.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by NightWing

"...Recently, a static idle test has been implemented as a supplement to the 50 foot test. That level is higher due to the nature of the test.

This is Representative Whalley's newest change to the noise regulations?

(Representative and boat dealer).

Originally Posted by NightWing

"...Throw in the third law that requires mufflers or underwater exhaust and you can understand that noise enforcement is quite involved..."

It's especially "involved" when I'm reading that there are several manufacturers who are building custom through-hull exhausts that will pass 92dB tests to conform to other states' noise laws.

...But found this quote of particular interest to the MPs on the Big Lake:

"...Trick Marine. They are in the water when not on plane and they pass. "

IMHO, nothing on Lake Winnipesaukee has changed the lake's friendly nature more than the volume of noise, both amplified noise and barely-muffled exhaust noise.

Did I mention, "in my opinion"?

Yes, it appears I did!

[parrothead]

Originally Posted by Dave R

I'd guess nearly any late model bowider with through-hull exhaust also has a switchable exhaust. The other boat probably did not have switchable exhaust (dumb law eh?) He went for the boat owner that was obvioiusly flaunting the law and probably gave a warning because you didn't know the law.

That's what we figured, also our situation was reversable. I don't know how a through transom exhaust could be converted to a through prop exhaust. While the switch can be disabled and the marina was nice enough to do it at no cost.

[jrc]

If NH marinas are selling boats with switchable exhausts, the MP should be going after them. It's against the law to own or operate a boat with a switchable exhaust in NH. Since the marina usually owns the boat before you do, the MP could just walk through the showroom writing tickets. That's better than some unsuspecting new boat buyer getting hassled. Not to mention that the buyer paid for an option that's illegal.

This only applies to boats with manual switches. Some boats switch automatically depending on RPM, those seem to be legal.

[Gavia immer]

Originally Posted by jrc

Since the marina usually owns the boat before you do, the MP could just walk through the showroom writing tickets.

How's that going to hold up in court?

[NightWing]

It won't. The dealers don't own the boats, they are on floor plan. Besides, most dealers are corporations and you can't write a ticket to a corporation.

It is not illegal to sell a boat with switchable exhaust. It is illegal to own or operate one. Dealers can and do sell these boats for use out of state, where their use is not restricted.

[jrc]

Ok, how am I on the wrong side of this?

It's damn sleazy for a boat dealer in NH to sell a boat in NH, for use in NH, that can't be legally owned or operated in NH.

270:25 Muffling Devices.
....
II. No person shall own or operate, within the jurisdiction of this state, a boat equipped with a lever, cable, or other device that may be used to adjust the muffling device.
....

In this context, person usually includes corporations. I'm not a lawyer, but you can't ignore laws just by incorporating. Some entity always owns the boat, so once it's crosses the state lines, the violation has been commited.
Even if I'm wrong, the second a test drive occurs, a violation occurs.

[NightWing]

OK, so write a $43 ticket to Brunswick Corporation.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by parrothead

"...The boat was sold to my parents with a switch for the exhaust to go through the hull or through the props..."

A New Hampshire dealer would be subject to your expenses and troubles—provided the official "noisy boat" form was not signed by your father.

The form acknowledges that your noisy boat purchase will be operated away from NH. It should apply to 2nd-hand boats as well, but I can't say.

[GTO]

Saw it today. Two uniformed Marine Patrol Officers in a red and white Seadoo Boat. They were answering a call over at Patrician Shores. So beware!!

[Senter Cove Guy]

I was traveling through The Graveyard this afternoon and 2 PWC's were approaching me from the opposite direction. I slowed down to obey the 150 foot rule and so did they. To my amazement, they were both uniformed Marine Patrol officers and their PWC's were clearly labelled Marine Patrol without a logo. The guy behind me didn't obey the rule and the MP stopped him. That's the first time I've seen MP patroling on PWC's.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Senter Cove Guy

"...That's the first time I've seen MP patroling on PWC's..."

Interesting. Now they have something fast enough for Speed Limit enforcement. Maybe the PWCs were a gift?

It wouldn't be a first for the Town of Tuftonboro. A government agency there accepted a PWC from a dealership as a gift a few years ago: Fire/Rescue, as I recall.

(Forgotten which dealership did the donating, though).

[tis]

Yes and they now have a unmarked Sea Doo jet boat which is mostly white with some red.

[NHskier]

We passed the Marine Patrol SeaDoo today coming through Weirs Channel. Did a double-take when I looked over and saw "Marine Patrol" on the backs of their black rain gear. Until today I had no idea they used "unmarked" boats to patrol, but I suppose it's just the same approach used by police departments.

NHskier

[GTO]

Beware of a Red and White Seadoo Sportster Boat. Unmarked Marine Patrol. Saw them at work this past weekend

[SBC]

Originally Posted by GTO

Beware of a Red and White Seadoo Sportster Boat. Unmarked Marine Patrol. Saw them at work this past weekend

Yes, beware, just as we should be for all those unmarked cruisers on the roads. If you are boating or driving responsibly then there is nothing to beware of except the other operators.

[SIKSUKR]

Originally Posted by Senter Cove Guy

That's the first time I've seen MP patroling on PWC's.

The MP had those PWC last year.Same one's as mine.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by SBC

Yes, beware, just as we should be for all those unmarked cruisers on the roads. If you are boating or driving responsibly then there is nothing to beware of except the other operators.

Thats who I was warning....the other boaters. If they are more cautious, we'll all be safe.