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Old 01-30-2009, 03:17 PM   #1
Nadia
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Exclamation Methadone Clinic Proposal Approved

I'm sure you have all been following this on TV and in the newspapers. What are your thoughts and input on the approval of this drug treatment facility being permitted in Laconia? I am very curious to hear all of your comments and discuss.
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Old 01-30-2009, 03:28 PM   #2
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Default What!

I am never a fan of these to begin with, because as the one in boston shows, a lot of people,m unfortunately they are not in the best shape, start to hang around the area of the clinic and tend to never leave, why not put it in Concord, oh yeah the state legislatures do not want this in their back yard every day. Why would they put a Clinic like this in a area that solely depends on Tourism.


Hey everyone Call your reps again!
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Old 01-30-2009, 05:14 PM   #3
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I am aware of at least four other clinics in New Hampshire (Manchester, West Lebanon, Somersworth and Hudson).

Methadone is used not only to treat heroin addiction, but also other opioid addictions, such as an addiction to that new scourge, oxycodone.

Methadone is also used as an analgesic for chronic pain management.

I am neutral toward them; on the one hand, it attracts riff raff; on the other hand, I'd rather have the riff raff getting a legal fix than have to watch them steal to support a habit.

The real question: how best to curtail drug addiction?
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Old 01-30-2009, 09:07 PM   #4
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Post Should have clarified

To clarify the Methadone Clinic was proposed by a Florida based company known as Colonial Management. They operate clinics nationwide, six I believe in New Hampshire. They already have one located in the states capital, Concord Metro Treatment Center, as well as Manchester, Swanzey and Lebanon. A representative for the clinic stated that Laconia is in need of the clinic to address it's growing drug problem. Approximately 200 Laconia Residents travel to Concord daily for treatment. As you can guess, many opposed, including law enforcement.

The issue was left to be decided by City Planner Shanna Saunders, and because of the size of the clinic (less than 5,000 sq. feet) Shanna could make the decision on her own, it did not have to go in front of the Planning Board. She permitted the clinic to operate in the former O'Toole building, in O'Shea Industrial Park, with two stipulations. First, the clinic would have to have a 24 hour video camera surveillance system, and second, a law officer would have to be present during business hours, which would cost Colonial Management approximately $2,000 a week. Representatives from Colonial Management stated they would not comment until sometime next week.

The proposed clinic will dispense the drug methadone in liquid form to patients daily on an out-patient basis. Although a for-profit clinic they do provide mandatory counseling services for each patient, along with therapeutic groups, and many supportive activites for patients in treatment. Still not sure what to think myself, that's why I was wondering what everyone else thought.

What kinds of activity about the clinic in Boston is bothersome to you? I would like to know myself as being a Laconia resident, this would effect me as well.
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Old 01-31-2009, 08:22 AM   #5
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To clarify the Methadone Clinic was proposed by a Florida based company known as Colonial Management. They operate clinics nationwide, six I believe in New Hampshire. They already have one located in the states capital, Concord Metro Treatment Center, as well as Manchester, Swanzey and Lebanon. A representative for the clinic stated that Laconia is in need of the clinic to address it's growing drug problem. Approximately 200 Laconia Residents travel to Concord daily for treatment. As you can guess, many opposed, including law enforcement.

The issue was left to be decided by City Planner Shanna Saunders, and because of the size of the clinic (less than 5,000 sq. feet) Shanna could make the decision on her own, it did not have to go in front of the Planning Board. She permitted the clinic to operate in the former O'Toole building, in O'Shea Industrial Park, with two stipulations. First, the clinic would have to have a 24 hour video camera surveillance system, and second, a law officer would have to be present during business hours, which would cost Colonial Management approximately $2,000 a week. Representatives from Colonial Management stated they would not comment until sometime next week.

The proposed clinic will dispense the drug methadone in liquid form to patients daily on an out-patient basis. Although a for-profit clinic they do provide mandatory counseling services for each patient, along with therapeutic groups, and many supportive activites for patients in treatment. Still not sure what to think myself, that's why I was wondering what everyone else thought.

What kinds of activity about the clinic in Boston is bothersome to you? I would like to know myself as being a Laconia resident, this would effect me as well.

BEFORE ANYONE READS THIS NOTE I DO NOT THINK THAT THESE PEOPLE SHOULD NOT GET HELP THEY SHOULD, JUST NOT IN A AREA THAT LIVES OFF OF TOURISM
In Boston there is alreay a "riff raff" problem as we all already know this but the problem is more than that, they hang around the area, stand on the street corners and try to clean windows sell flowers and beg for anything they can get their hands on. Also you do not have to be a resident of that particular area to be welcomed at the clinic so that sum 200 will increase drastically because it will the only one North of Concord and then where are these people going to go if they need thier daily dose of Methadone, well they will stay in the area becasuse they will not be able to drive back and forth or in most cases have the money to drive back and forth.
Also that brings crime because off the money. Like I said these people need help but it should not be in the front of one of NH's biggest income area for the summer. The one here in Boston, and they are in multiple areas around the state, has a line around the block everyday and then as a outpatient care, they just hang around the outside of the clinic, and this is in the view of the police as they have a daily post there as well. This is a bad thing for this area. I welcome anyone to drive to Boston, go to Mass Ave to the side of Boston Medical Center/ BU medical center and sit there for a day and see what the area is like. I have to travel there at least once a month and it is not a comfortable area, especially when you have to shoo people away from bothering you and you have to dodge people sitting on the sidwalks and relieving themselves and sitting on the stairs.
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Old 01-31-2009, 08:51 AM   #6
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They should build it across from the police station, that way eyes will always be watching.
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Old 01-31-2009, 09:32 AM   #7
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I don't consider it "treatment".....it's just a legal fix..........they aren't sick.They threw in the police guard because they knew that a nice "hack" assignment would please the PD.But, has anyone stopped to think where these losers will be hanging out when they are not getting their daily fix,courtesy of us taxpayers? Right on the streets of Laconia and surrounding communities.Great idea.
Makes me want to move there.
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Old 01-31-2009, 03:59 PM   #8
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Those poor folks who live down the street on Shore Drive & the Holman Street neighborhood must be in shock over this. That's one of Laconia's best areas.
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MEDICAL MARIJUANA

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Old 01-31-2009, 04:49 PM   #9
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On a lighter note, if they do put it in Laconia; how much do you think a room would cost say during bike week or better yet, the first week of August?... are there boats slips nearby? pets allowed? Are there things nearby to do on rainy days in between treatments? If so I'm in...
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Old 01-31-2009, 07:10 PM   #10
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Default Is the clinic the problem?

I may be mis-reading all of your thoughts here, but I would like to describe what is happening down here in southern CT. Granted our suburbs are prosperous areas but they are also inundated with the drug problems of our inner cities. Here is a link to a local paper article describing what is being faced. These problems are just a local representation of trends being established all accross the country by the youth. And even those places believed to be Paradise may get a share of them.

local heroin prob

The clinics being set up are for those people that want to get off of a drug dependancy and these people might not even be old enough to have a driver's license. These people in need of help could even be adults trying to cope with life's up(per)s and down(er)s. They could be us or our neighbors or their families.
These clinics are also to help the ones still in a family situation. There are people in bigger cities that live in down and out conditions and scrounge for a buck for a "fix" but they don't just travel to the next clinic hoping to hang out. I think if you travel through your towns and cities now, you will see the street people you are worried about already there.

When you don't feel you can depend on adults, the youth has turned to drugs since the mid 60's. But if they want help where do they go? According to the above article, even their own parents may have given up.

And in full disclosure, yes I was a child of the 60's but never so far as dependency. But helping friends kick addiction is not easy for patient or friend, physically or emotionally. Work to find a satisfactory solution.
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Old 01-31-2009, 11:00 PM   #11
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Default Not Buying It!!

"The clinics being set up are for those people that want to get off of a drug dependancy"

Sorry, but this is a crock!! Has anyone ever checked the success ratio of these clinics??...Or just for the heck of it call one and ask what their success ratio is! You may be surprised if you even get an answer...

I have a family member who goes to one of these supposed "clinics" and has been going for over five years now and has no desire to stop. Why should he, they dispense legal heroin!!

These clinics are set up as a for profit business, that should give everyone the first clue! The second clue is their extreme lack of historical success. This is a pathetic excuse to profit off a serious addiction with no desire to treat.

Don't do it Laconia!!

My opinion.

Dan
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Old 02-01-2009, 12:56 AM   #12
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Default Nadia Again ?

"The issue was left to be decided by City Planner Shanna Saunders, and because of the size of the clinic (less than 5,000 sq. feet) Shanna could make the decision on her own".

I dont think anyone wants this clinic in our back yard, but for you to say Shanna could have prevented it and did not shows how much you know about the city you live and work in.

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Old 02-01-2009, 08:08 AM   #13
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This is public information - Nadia has done nothing wrong at all, and I applaud her for having the guts to take a stand. If more people took stands for what they believe in (instead of being noodlebacks), this city, state and country would not be in the mess that it's in.

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"The issue was left to be decided by City Planner Shanna Saunders, and because of the size of the clinic (less than 5,000 sq. feet) Shanna could make the decision on her own".

Nadia you have crossed the line again, Your last post about LP was a nightmare and now your naming city officials, your the best train wreck to happen to this forum ever.

I dont think anyone wants this clinic in our back yard, but for you to say Shanna could have prevented it and did not shows how much you know about the city you live and work in.


open mouth insert foot, Again !
You cant fix stupid !
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Old 02-01-2009, 11:02 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Channel Pirate View Post
"The issue was left to be decided by City Planner Shanna Saunders, and because of the size of the clinic (less than 5,000 sq. feet) Shanna could make the decision on her own".

Nadia you have crossed the line again, Your last post about LP was a nightmare and now your naming city officials, your the best train wreck to happen to this forum ever.

I dont think anyone wants this clinic in our back yard, but for you to say Shanna could have prevented it and did not shows how much you know about the city you live and work in.


open mouth insert foot, Again !
You cant fix stupid !
First of all, "naming city officials" is nothing to be ashamed of. City officials deserve to have their actions scrutinized, for better or for worse.

Second, Nadia appeared to be discussing a regulatory distinction. Because the proposed business would occupy less than 5,000 s.f., Ms. Saunders could make a decision without convening a meeting of the Planning Board. Nadia's entire post seemed very straightforward and almost sounded transcribed from a newspaper article. Now, if you have information that her understanding of Ms. Saunders's powers is wrong, share it with us. If not, don't attack her for giving us information about a topic that may affect us.

Comments in other threads aside, she seems here to be simply asking for the opinions of others. Don't carry arguments from thread to thread without cause.
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Old 02-02-2009, 08:40 PM   #15
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Mr. V I'm glad you mentioned what you did. There has been major confusion regarding methadone's uses that causes people to come to invalid conclusions. It is used to treat heroin addiction as well as addiction to other opiod narcotics, and is also prescribed in tablet form as a long acting pain medication to those who suffer from chronic pain. There have been 8 deaths in the City of Laconia directly attributed to methadone toxicity or it's mixture with other narcotics. It is a drug that does not mix well with several other RX & OTC medications and alcohol. I'm almost sure all of the deaths were attributed to the tablet form of the drug being used by those to whom it was not prescribed. In the clinical setting patients are given a daily dose of liquid methadone which puts a halt on the ability to sell the medicine to others, although it is still possible. After meeting rigid guidelines set by the State and Fed's patients are allowed "take home or carry off" supplies of the drug. This may increase the sale of methadone on the streets but I think it is safe to draw the conclusion that many deaths are the result of the medicine being diverted, and not a direct fault of the clinic's.

AC2717 I used to live in South Boston when I was younger. I do not remember the area's you are making reference to but what I do remember is the guys always selling roses or washing your windshields in traffic. I was too young to understand why they were doing it but that statement brought back so many memories! Now I know what they're up to! The picture you drew was not a desirable one, hopefully the police intervention will prohibit this activity, that is horrible. Another thing Mr. V mentioned is these places do tend to attract "riff-raff". They may not be seeking treatment themselves, but this is a great place for drug dealers to hang out and increase sales unfortunately. The police patrol is a great deterance for most drug dealers as police attention could hurt their future sales!

Irish Mist there was a very interesting picture in the Laconia Daily Sun approximately one month ago. A woman had placed a large, handmade sign outside her home on North Main Street displaying "NO METH CLINIC". I do not think the surrounding residents are very happy. In fact I have not heard anyone so far who is total support. Most are either opposed or in the middle.

IShoot308 you bring up a very good question, and I would like to see those statistics as well. After this I intend to Google and see what the numbers really say. Although I did see a woman on the news from New Hampshire (Southern) who stated she had all the thanks she could give to her local clinic, her exact words were "If it were not for these clinics I would still be addicted to pain medicine and stuck in the putrid cycle of addiction". If anyone has any statistics please post. I have a family member who was not successful with this treatment but then again he was not successful with anything at all. The desire to clean his act up is not there, and that's important.

It is my observance that many people become addicted to the pain medications that are prescribed to them. It has gone completely awry. I work in a local pharmacy as a technician and some of the behavior I observe from patients being treated with these types of drugs is problematic to say the least. I really don't think these drugs are worth their side effects, and I think the ratio of people who become addicted to them and the problems that result render them more of a problem then a solution.

Channel Pilot I posted a summation of various newspaper/online articles that I have read without any opinion integrated whatsoever. I did not imply that Shanna Saunders was at fault or could/should have prevented this. I think this conversation is a little too complex for you to understand

Seaplane Pilot how are you? And the lovely Misses? Please tell her I said hello! I haven't seen/spoken in so long! Thank you to you and M/V Bear II as well.
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Old 02-02-2009, 10:46 PM   #16
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Hi Nadia,
If you remember the Round Hotel down near the Mass Ave entrance to rt 93?
That the area, i am sure you know it because you remember the guys selling roses, not even wrapped.

If you continue down Mass ave towards the city, it is, was, right there on the corner on your right side before you take the right to the entrance to Boston Medical. the dark red brick bldg siting sideways with the fenced in walkway is how you get int, much like a Prison walkway through a yard, not saying the one in Laconia is this way. you drive by there during the day, there are people of the "riff-raff" type there sitting on the side walk the stairs, roaming around all day. My in laws are from Southie, where abouts did you live? My wife's family is from the Thomas Park area.

Residents of Laconia PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE CALL YOUR REPS TO STOP THIS FROM HAPPENING, it is not something you want to Welcome in your Neighborhood, it is like said above from other, you know there will be an increase in drugs in the area, preying on those that are week and unfortunate
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Old 02-02-2009, 11:00 PM   #17
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I will have to appologize for my rant. Maybe it is to complex for me to understand, or maybe I have a inside scoop and I hate to see the finger pointed at officials who's hands are tied by leagal obligation.(hence my anger)
You never know who is behind a screen name
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Old 02-02-2009, 11:15 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadia View Post
I think this conversation is a little too complex for you to understand
Is there a better way to respond to people?? I believe there is. This forum is what it is because posters respect each other.

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Old 02-02-2009, 11:17 PM   #19
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It is very, very difficult to "kick" from heroin, oxycodone or other narcotics under the best of circumstances.

The rate of recidivism is shockingly high.

Just think of the "A-list" celebrities that have all the money in the world, and they are in and out of rehab.

There is a fundamental flaw, for lack of a better word, in "the human condition" which draws people to narcotics.

You can have it all, and yet, you ache for something ... more ...

Methadone clinics are a necessary prop for modern American society, like it or not.

It is better to have some tranquil junkie residents getting their daily fix of methadone in town than to have them unmedicated, breaking, entering, and burglarizing to get their next fix.

When chasing the dragon, the dragon always wins.
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Old 02-02-2009, 11:27 PM   #20
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You all should have been at city hall for the real forum on this subject.
To little to late.

My apologies to Nadia again.
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Old 02-03-2009, 01:37 AM   #21
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Channel Pilot, apologies accepted If it's worth it to you, can you share what happened at the meetings you attended? I think that is great input for the conversation as the clinic's proposal was not the only issue in contention. Other issues were that Shanna Saunders was pretty much forced into making this decision on her own, and that the public outcry was not taken into consideration whatsoever. How could it be really? Furthermore in the future, issues that are similar in nature or draw much public & official controversy should be put in front of the entire planning board, and they were pushing for legislation that states so, not dumped on one person, regardless of sq. footage. Shanna Saunders was left to make a big decision and for what it's worth I respect her decision tremendously. She was stuck between a rock and a hard place. Her decision reflects a respect and compassion for those seeking treatment, and a concern for public safety and the impact the clinic has on residents and it's surroundings in my opinion
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Old 02-03-2009, 10:37 AM   #22
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I think some of the forum members may be interested in reading this email correspondence I received in December. The author has given me permission to share it publicly. Mr Meeks shares many of my concerns. By approving the clinc,the planning director did what was legally mandated. She also was able put in certain conditions that will make the operation of the clinic as safe as possible. Thank you.


Dear Chief Moyer,
Hi. My name is Michael Meeks, and I live in Louisiana. I'm writing you concerning the proposal to open a methadone clinic in Laconia. I also have been speaking with a family member of Raymond DeLucca for several months online. Your efforts have had a very positive impact on the lives of that family and hope to other families in their situation. Thank you for the work you have put into putting together the task force there, and I sincerely hope other departments use yours as a basis on how to react to the situation.
I am not, nor have I ever, been a patient at any methadone clinic. My wife, however, has been on mmt for over 3 years. And I have been to the clinic many times, and spoken with the doctor there, and much of the staff. And have read quite a bit of information online that leads me to believe that the clinic my wife attends is ran just as the majority of clinics in the United States. So I want to tell you of her experience there, and hopefully you can find something useful in my rambling (the condensed version).
My wife started on mmt after being referred there by an inpatient program here. The inpatient program no longer refers anyone to the clinic due to them never hearing from the patients afterward. When my wife first called the clinic, she was told that she would be inducted, stabilized, and then detoxed in a matter of a few months. Actually, after the third month, her dosage was still being raised. She started "nodding off" when she reached a dose of 60mg/day, and I said something to her about it, just to make certain she knew it was happening. She went to the clinic, and upon stating she was nodding off, the clinic nurse told her not to worry, that it was normal, and it would pass once she was on a "stable" dose, and that by looking at her, the nurse could easily see that she was in withdrawal. The very next week I went with my wife to the clinic to explain to the nurse what I was witnessing, and was immediately informed that the piece of paper on the wall behind her was proof that she knew what she was doing in making the dose adjustments for the patients there, and that they were a maintenance facility, not a detox facility. I read the paper, and it stated she was a certified LPN. So I began to wonder why she was the one in charge of making the dose adjustments, and not the doctor...
The nurse continued to convince her she needed to increase until she was at 169mg/day. At that point, she said she wasn't liking the way it made her feel. And that nodding effect that she was told would subside, had only gotten worse. At that dose, she was having to pull over after leaving the clinic and sleep anywhere from 4 to 5 hours before driving home. The clinic is a little over 90 miles from where we live, so the trips to the clinic would often take 6 - 8 hours if I was unable to drive her. She went to the clinic the next week and not only refused to go up on her dose, but demanded they decrease it. She asked for eight consecutive weeks, with nothing happening. The nurse would tell her that either she had asked for the decrease too late in the week, the doctor didn't get the order, the pharmacist didn't get the order, etc. There was always an excuse for her dose not being dropped. She stated to me that a couple of other patients had asked to decrease, and they were having the same problems. I found that odd, seeing how easy it was for the increases to happen. She was going to the clinic three days a week at that time, and on each visit the nurse was telling her she was in withdrawal and still not on a stable dose. She got decreased for three weeks, and then stated that the nurse could be right to me, and on the next visit, she started to increase. At which time she increased 5mg/week until she was on 199mg/day. Once she got to that dose, she became afraid that she was close to overdosing, and decided to decrease again. That time her dose was not decreased for the first four weeks of her asking for it. She started decreasing 2mg/week on the fifth week after requesting it. Five weeks after they started dropping her dose, we found out she was pregnant. Once she told the clinic, her dose was immediately increased back to 199/day. Upon finding out she was pregnant, the clinic doctor asked to have a consultation with her to discuss her treatment during pregnancy. That was in May of 2007, after she had been at the clinic for over 2 years. It was the FIRST time she had met with the clinic doctor. I went, and discussed what dose she was on, and the clinic doctor informed us that the dose would probably be raised while she was pregnant, as was standard mmt protocol during pregnancy. We met with a perinatologist who advised different, and stated he had several mmt patients to taper completely off of methadone while pregnant. We went back an forth speaking with the two doctors until the clinic doctor agreed that no danger would come of a taper rate of 2mg every 4 days. However, after he agreed to that, the clinic staff called the owners of the clinic, who stated that a decrease would not happen there, and if she wanted to decrease while pregnant, then she should seek treatment elsewhere.
While in one of the consultations with the doctor while she was pregnant, we were discussing the way it seemed to me that they were only concerned with getting people hooked on methadone, and how it had been a battle to even get a small decrease before she became pregnant. The doctor replied by telling me there would be nothing he would rather see there than a patient who is walking out of the clinic door for the last time and abstinent from all drugs. And I made a comment that my wife had never failed a UA since starting at the clinic (which was true) and he said she was a very rare case, and that 90% of his patients there were using other substances while in mmt. The policy there now is to not allow any takehomes to those who fail the UA's, and that has not always been the case, from what I saw with a patient there when my wife first started. But it is now, so that's an improvement. In total, I have met four other patients from the clinic. Two from the town where the clinic is located, a mother and daughter who were using xanax on top of their methadone, and two from my area. One from my area had a brother die of methadone overdose last year, and the other died of Torsades de Pointes last year.
My wife is currently still a patient at the clinic, and was there yesterday. She had a meeting with her counselor, who was upset about having to put her car into the shop again. My wife asked why, and she stated that a patient had hit her car when leaving the parking lot last week, because he was allowed to remain at the clinic for over 20 minutes after he dosed, giving the effects of the methadone time to set in. She stated that she is really getting tired of this happening, that it happens "all the time." This sort of thing has been downplayed by clinics, and there are statements all over the internet saying methadone does not impair driving ability, but I have witnessed it first-hand, being in the passenger seat, and will say those statements are wrong. It does impair driving ability, and can say that in my wife's case, it was impairing her driving ability when her dose was one-third of her maximum dose. Please believe me when I say the clinics are very much a financial endeavor for the owners, and there is most definately a product for sale, and they have been working on the sales pitch for 3 decades.
When the time comes to make the decision about the clinic, please make some facts known about what is promoted as to what is true. First, the success rate used when promoting mmt is often 85%. What is used as basis for that rate, is 85% of mmt patients abstain from heroin use while on mmt. But nowadays, a great number of patients didn't use heroin before going on mmt. And that rate only includes heroin, and not all illicit drugs. Second, that rate is used to promote mmt success over the success rate of abstinence-based programs, when the mmt rate is based upon people IN treatment whereas in abstinence-based programs, the rate is of those remaining abstinent after LEAVING treatment. The actual rate of achieving long-term abstinence after leaving mmt is close to the same as the other modalities. Third, IF the clinic owners state that a clinic is protected under the ADA, please don't buy it. The ADA protects addicts who are not currently using any illicit drugs. So the clinic would have to be treating patients who no longer use illicit drugs in order to be covered. The doctor at the clinic here stated that 90% of the patients were still using other drugs, and I don't think that the clinic here is a rare example. Methadone maintenance is based upon harm reduction, which does not emphasize abstinence. That negates them belonging to a protected class under the ADA. Here is the link to the wording in which it is discussed, in which it is clearly stated that a person must be abstinent, along with being in treatment, in order to be protected (section 12114):
http://www.ada.gov/pubs/ada.htm#Anchor-43793

If you are still reading this, and haven't become bored because of the length (please believe me it IS the short version), I want to thank you again for getting involved and listening to the families involved in your area. I wish you all the best of luck in the future, and thanks for reading. Please feel free to forward this to anyone who you think might be interested.

Sincerely,

Michael Meeks

www.Angels4DrugAwareness.org

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fr41Mf7_eo

www.HARMD.org
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Old 02-03-2009, 11:42 AM   #23
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Red face Just my opinion

This area has long been known for it's beauty and as being a great spot to either raise children (I did) or at least family vacation here and alot of people depend that to make a living. I have an older sister who has been an addict for going on 30 years now in and out of treatment for just as long and I would give anything for her to get cured, but I see it this way, and I'm only a mile from the proposed clinic...wouldn't putting this clinic , in this area, be like dropping one right next to Disneyland? (would you continue to bring your family there?).....JMO
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Old 02-03-2009, 11:44 AM   #24
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This area has long been known for it's beauty and as being a great spot to either raise children (I did) or at least family vacation here and alot of people depend that to make a living. I have an older sister who has been an addict for going on 30 years now in and out of treatment for just as long and I would give anything for her to get cured, but I see it this way, and I'm only a mile from the proposed clinic...wouldn't putting this clinic , in this area, be like dropping one right next to Disneyland? (would you continue to bring your family there?).....JMO
Well put! There is nothing else to say except call for action
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Old 02-03-2009, 02:32 PM   #25
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This area has long been known for it's beauty and as being a great spot to either raise children (I did) or at least family vacation here and alot of people depend that to make a living. I have an older sister who has been an addict for going on 30 years now in and out of treatment for just as long and I would give anything for her to get cured, but I see it this way, and I'm only a mile from the proposed clinic...wouldn't putting this clinic , in this area, be like dropping one right next to Disneyland? (would you continue to bring your family there?).....JMO
I don't think this a good analogy, simply because I don't believe that the immediate area surrouding Disney Land has a high, or higher than average amount of documented cases of peope who are addicted to drugs (specifically heroin). Laconia, however, does. And I'm sure,as the clinic is "for profit", it's research tells it that Laconia is a place in need of it's product.
I cannot claim to be any expert on the city of Laconia, but a close friend who grew up there, but moved to Florida 6 or 7 years back, tells me the city is quite diverse. There is the "vacationland Laconia", which most people tend to picture when the name is mentioned, there is "blue collar, work a day Laconia" which makes up most of the town, and there is "lower blue collar" (very similar to Lawrence Mass) less than desirable Laconia. Again, this is second hand information, but it seems accurate to me.
I know if you are at the traffic light facing Fratello's, the difference between what you see if you take a right (toward Busy corner) or left (toward Friendly's) is night and day.
And a while back I was forced into a situation where I needed to become educated about Heroin and Oxycontin addiction, and their cures...mainly methadone, and Suboxone (which is the wealthy man's way of getting clean. Obtained (Suboxone) by getting a RX from a qualified doctor, and filled at any pharmacy). Anyway durng this time, I was amazed at how many poeple spoke of the amounts and the quality of heroin available in Laconia and the immediate surrounding areas.
Again, this is not my hometown, and I am no expert....but I believe the heroin/oxy problem in Laconia is very real...and growing.
Just my thought....I could be wrong.
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Old 02-03-2009, 02:57 PM   #26
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Default Right On Target!

Mr Meeks letter is spot on! Read it carefully because it tells the facts about what these clinics are all about from someone who seems to have a lot of experience.

"Methadone maintenance is based upon harm reduction, which does not emphasize abstinence."

And that right there is the issue. Why should they emphasize abstinence, they are a "for profit" business!

I am not saying that Laconia does not have a drug problem, nor am I saying forget about the addicts. What I am saying is a Methadone clinic is not the way to CURE the problem and it will only cause problems for the city of Laconia and its neighboring towns.

Dan
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Old 02-03-2009, 03:26 PM   #27
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AC,

That is really where the shuttle to the Long Island Shelter picks the homeless up- the methadone clinic moved across the highway to a spot right near the Boston DPW yard. The shuttle location does make for some interesting conversations while waiting for the Melnea Cass/ Mass Ave lights to change. Some of the regular sales people/ panhandlers are pretty cool actually!
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BEFORE ANYONE READS THIS NOTE I DO NOT THINK THAT THESE PEOPLE SHOULD NOT GET HELP THEY SHOULD, JUST NOT IN A AREA THAT LIVES OFF OF TOURISM
In Boston there is alreay a "riff raff" problem as we all already know this but the problem is more than that, they hang around the area, stand on the street corners and try to clean windows sell flowers and beg for anything they can get their hands on. Also you do not have to be a resident of that particular area to be welcomed at the clinic so that sum 200 will increase drastically because it will the only one North of Concord and then where are these people going to go if they need thier daily dose of Methadone, well they will stay in the area becasuse they will not be able to drive back and forth or in most cases have the money to drive back and forth.
Also that brings crime because off the money. Like I said these people need help but it should not be in the front of one of NH's biggest income area for the summer. The one here in Boston, and they are in multiple areas around the state, has a line around the block everyday and then as a outpatient care, they just hang around the outside of the clinic, and this is in the view of the police as they have a daily post there as well. This is a bad thing for this area. I welcome anyone to drive to Boston, go to Mass Ave to the side of Boston Medical Center/ BU medical center and sit there for a day and see what the area is like. I have to travel there at least once a month and it is not a comfortable area, especially when you have to shoo people away from bothering you and you have to dodge people sitting on the sidwalks and relieving themselves and sitting on the stairs.
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Old 02-03-2009, 03:32 PM   #28
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Is there a better way to respond to people?? I believe there is. This forum is what it is because posters respect each other.

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R2B, Channel Pilots post was edited, please look up a few from yours (M/V Bears) to see his/her original post- it was not respectful either.
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Old 02-03-2009, 03:56 PM   #29
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R2B, Channel Pilots post was edited, please look up a few from yours (M/V Bears) to see his/her original post- it was not respectful either.
Dear Nadia,

Sorry for jumping without all the facts. I did not see the edited message. I responded by viewing what I could see.

Thanks VitaBene for your input. I appreciate it!

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Old 02-03-2009, 04:45 PM   #30
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AC,

That is really where the shuttle to the Long Island Shelter picks the homeless up- the methadone clinic moved across the highway to a spot right near the Boston DPW yard. The shuttle location does make for some interesting conversations while waiting for the Melnea Cass/ Mass Ave lights to change. Some of the regular sales people/ panhandlers are pretty cool actually!
When did that happen? I drive by there at least once a week, why is there still a line in the morning going into that bldg through the fenced in walk way that zigzags
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Old 02-03-2009, 05:49 PM   #31
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When did that happen? I drive by there at least once a week, why is there still a line in the morning going into that bldg through the fenced in walk way that zigzags
There is a mini-shelter there- and they feed folks as well. The overflow at night gets bussed from there to the Long Island Shelter out in the harbor.

There is also a clinic there. Most shelters have their residents vacate during the day but you will see lines at meal time and at 5 PM when they allow people to come back in.
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Old 02-03-2009, 08:29 PM   #32
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Isn't the State Prison on the hilly Parade Rd campus maybe just one mile away. The Laconia State Prison's website says it has 105 corrections officers, and 45 special services employees.

Seems like having the state administer and pay for the clinic located in the prison could be a good fit, especially if they can access federal funding. Isn't that how it's done in Norway, Sweden, and Germany.

Possibly, situating the clinic in a prison could help discourage the clients from criminal activity. You know....."It's a nice place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there." Especially not in a 7' x 8' cell, with a roommate, unless it's Paris Hilton.
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Old 02-03-2009, 10:29 PM   #33
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Isn't the State Prison on the hilly Parade Rd campus maybe just one mile away. The Laconia State Prison's website says it has 105 corrections officers, and 45 special services employees.

Seems like having the state administer and pay for the clinic located in the prison could be a good fit, especially if they can access federal funding. Isn't that how it's done in Norway, Sweden, and Germany.

Possibly, situating the clinic in a prison could help discourage the clients from criminal activity. You know....."It's a nice place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there." Especially not in a 7' x 8' cell, with a roommate, unless it's Paris Hilton.
That is a great idea, any living in Laconia want to propose this to the city council or anything like, that I wonder if anyone has noticed my dismay for this and cry for help form Laconia residents
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Old 02-03-2009, 10:50 PM   #34
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I don't think this a good analogy, simply because I don't believe that the immediate area surrouding Disney Land has a high, or higher than average amount of documented cases of peope who are addicted to drugs (specifically heroin). Laconia, however, does. And I'm sure,as the clinic is "for profit", it's research tells it that Laconia is a place in need of it's product.
I cannot claim to be any expert on the city of Laconia, but a close friend who grew up there, but moved to Florida 6 or 7 years back, tells me the city is quite diverse. There is the "vacationland Laconia", which most people tend to picture when the name is mentioned, there is "blue collar, work a day Laconia" which makes up most of the town, and there is "lower blue collar" (very similar to Lawrence Mass) less than desirable Laconia. Again, this is second hand information, but it seems accurate to me...I could be wrong.
You could be considering the population but my point was ...do you, if you lived here, really want this in YOUR back yard. As I said I have been dealing with this in my immeadiate family for over 30 years and am willing to do anything to help someone find a cure BUT... think long and hard about putting it close to home
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Old 02-04-2009, 08:50 AM   #35
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You could be considering the population but my point was ...do you, if you lived here, really want this in YOUR back yard. As I said I have been dealing with this in my immeadiate family for over 30 years and am willing to do anything to help someone find a cure BUT... think long and hard about putting it close to home
I certainly see your point. There is a little bit of "...yes, but not in my back yard" in all of us. Point taken.
I guess I would need more facts. Is the area highly residential or commercial?
Is it going to be descreet? Possibly in the inner part of a larger building housing many other businesses. Stuff like that. The specifics (of which I know none) are important.
I wish your family memeber well. Opioid addiction is quite simply the toughest addiction break free from. The initial withdrawal symtoms often make death seem like a better option. Good luck.
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Old 02-04-2009, 09:26 AM   #36
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Smile

Thank you SA, she's due to come home the end of the month from a 6 month stint, hopefully it helped (this time)
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Old 02-04-2009, 09:34 AM   #37
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Like, how difficult can it be to totally reform yourself from a heroin addiction by going cold turkey. Can't you just do it with the combination of desire-jogging-ice water, and about two weeks later, you'll be cleaned out.

Here's one method. Go climb all 48 of the NH 4000'er's in the winter, by yourself. After that, you'll probably lose the old habit.

Probably, addicts can lose the habit without methadone as a replacement, if they really, really want to.
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Old 02-04-2009, 06:54 PM   #38
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Like, how difficult can it be to totally reform yourself from a heroin addiction by going cold turkey. Can't you just do it with the combination of desire-jogging-ice water, and about two weeks later, you'll be cleaned out.

Here's one method. Go climb all 48 of the NH 4000'er's in the winter, by yourself. After that, you'll probably lose the old habit.

Probably, addicts can lose the habit without methadone as a replacement, if they really, really want to.
Not looking to start any trouble here. And I enjoy your humorous posts from time to time...but here???
I'm sorry, you know not of what you speak. Period. End. No debate. Honestly, the fact that you actually would state what you did, proves that you have no idea what it is about.
Someone coming out of the initials stages of heroin addiction, doing any type of physical activity???? Not today, tomorrow, or next Thursday.
I think the only person I know of that did it with no help was Ray Charles (as seen in the movie). He had the rehab center strap him into a bed for 10 days so he counld not move. That is about what it would take.
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Old 02-04-2009, 09:54 PM   #39
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Like, how difficult can it be to totally reform yourself from a heroin addiction by going cold turkey. ....
You don't want to be anywhere near someone that needs a fix, they will do anything for the next hit. Methadone is just "legal" horse. No offense FLL, but talk to someone in the field that knows and has seen it.
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Old 02-05-2009, 08:09 AM   #40
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Like, how difficult can it be to totally reform yourself from a heroin addiction by going cold turkey. Can't you just do it with the combination of desire-jogging-ice water, and about two weeks later, you'll be cleaned out.
FLL, here's a little test for you....try to stay off this forum , just for 2 day's then let me know how it was now don't take that personal, it's just a test
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Old 02-05-2009, 08:56 AM   #41
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I can't take it...I can't take it...got to get my daily fix....must head to the world famous Meredith McDonald's for a double-cheeseburger & french fries....probably cheaper than heroin or methadone...but equally addictive(?)....and tastes a lot better...I assume(!)
...maybe a small chocolate sundae, too.

Coffee....now that's addictive...is just 86 cents..... for seniors....and totally legal!
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Old 02-05-2009, 10:50 AM   #42
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Funny,Ironhorsetim.......you must be kidding. Talk about cold sweats,nausea and the shakes......FLL would go crazy for his "fix" Probably end up on an internet chat.
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Old 02-05-2009, 11:44 AM   #43
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I can't take it...I can't take it...got to get my daily fix....must head to the world famous Meredith McDonald's for a double-cheeseburger & french fries....probably cheaper than heroin or methadone...but equally addictive(?)....and tastes a lot better...I assume(!)
...maybe a small chocolate sundae, too.

Coffee....now that's addictive...is just 86 cents..... for seniors....and totally legal!
Unemployed, high taxes for lake front property, but goes to Mickey D's????.

Sorry, off topic, but I couldn't help myself.
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Old 02-05-2009, 12:57 PM   #44
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Getting back on track here....the lengthy letter above, posted by a concerned Laconia police officer, speaks to some important safety concerns. Methadone clinic users who drive a car while under the influence of methadone is a driving problem that should not be ignored.

If you are in a car that gets hit, you probably won't be liking it too much.
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Old 02-05-2009, 02:27 PM   #45
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ACK - I haven't been to Boston in a while, and although I believe I know the area you are referencing, I'm not sure enough to say I'm 100% understanding. I do however clearly remember the guys always selling flowers and offering to wash your windshield for donations.

Resident 2B - Apologies accepted. No worries.

Mr. Moyer - Thank you so much for posting that letter. A first hand account of the experience is more valuable than any numbers or statistics we could ever begin to analyze. Furthermore, mentioning Ray Delucca brought back some very sad memories for me. Ray Delucca was a very young Laconia resident whose life was cut seriously short by methadone. Ray worked for me at my family restaraunt Nadia's Trattoria in Gilford for a little while. I remember getting a phone call from my Mother early in the morning. When I answered the phone I could hear by her tone she was distraught. She told me "The dishwasher died". At first I was under the impression she was making reference to the actual piece of equipment that washes dishes. I couldn't imagine her crying over this but I said "It's okay Mom, we will just buy another one. We can finance it". That's when she told me that it was Ray that died. Again I replied to her in disbelief..."But he's only nineteen"! I remained in disbelief the entire day.

We attended his service held at the Cemetary near the Superior Court. I remember it being a very rainy day. There were hundreds of people there when we arrived. I admired his Mother for her bravery and courage to stand up and address everyone in the audience, specifically the younger people. She told them her son had made a choice and suffered severe consequences from that choice. She did not want to see anyone else that young lose their life so tragically and suddenly. We did not know Ray very long, maybe one month, yet I sobbed like he was a family member. I could not believe what a price this boy paid, and how short his life was truly cut. He had not even had the chance to experience all the typical, joyous landmarks in life. Marriage, children, buying the first home...such a shame. May he rest in peace and God bless him and his family. Instead of becoming bitter and angry, his Mother has taken her emotions and experience and dedicated them to educating the public about methadone and it's potential dangers.

At this time the Laconia "Methadone Task Force" was formed as a branch of the Laconia Police Department. As part of their first project they adamently hunted down and found the people who provided Ray Delucca with the methadone that ultimately cost him his life. Their business came to a screeching halt as Judge David Huot arraigned the man who was the distributor of the methadone at his hospital bedside. The night prior he had suffered what I think was a minor heart attack. Regardless, the officials found no sympathy for his position and enforced the law, which I found admirable. I felt relief and justice for Ray and his family when I read of this in the local newspaper. Eventually the man and two others were found guilty of several charges regarding distributing prescribed narcotics, one of them being methadone. A victory for Ray and his family, and those around him who suffered from such terrible loss.

On the other hand, I have received a PM from a rather new forum member regarding the Laconia methadone clinic. She found this forum through a search engine and became very interested in this thread. She is currently a patient at "Concord Metro Treatment Center" which is owned by Colonial Management, the same company that will be operating the Laconia Clinic. Her preference is to remain anonymous, however she really, really wants to contribute to this conversation. She fears being scrutinized or challenged in the present or future. I tried to encourage her to post regardless but on the other hand I do sympathize with her. After re-reading this thread I composed a set of questions for her to answer that I thought would help in our discussion. She sent me an e-mail this morning stating she will finish her answers tonight. Some of the questions I sent her were:

1.) Could you please walk us through a day as a patient of this operation?
2.) What are the side effects of methadone?
3.) How long have you been in treatment?
4.) Have you experienced any relapses?
5.) How helpful are the staff?
6.) Do you feel the clinic is genuinly concerned for you or do you feel as though you are nothing but a number?
7.) Is there problems with crime inside or outside the clinic area i.e. the parking lot?
8.) Does methadone impair your ability to operate machinery i.e. your vehicle, or impair your ability or judgement in any matter?

In her first PM to me she introduced herself and explained her situation. She then stated that although she sympathized with the letter posted by Mr. Moyer, she was 100% sure that there was a difference in the way these clinics operate in larger cities. The clinics that are in the media spotlight are always the bad ones, and the media emphasizes on that. Furthermore that the way that methadone is portrayed is not 100% correct. I asked her to emphasize further and am awaiting her response. I think it would be great contribution.
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Old 02-07-2009, 02:05 PM   #46
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This area has long been known for it's beauty and as being a great spot to either raise children (I did) or at least family vacation here and alot of people depend that to make a living. I have an older sister who has been an addict for going on 30 years now in and out of treatment for just as long and I would give anything for her to get cured, but I see it this way, and I'm only a mile from the proposed clinic...wouldn't putting this clinic , in this area, be like dropping one right next to Disneyland? (would you continue to bring your family there?).....JMO
If I had to live with an addict in the family I would consider going to Disney World so the whole family could enjoy the place and where there is treatment for the one who needs it. If you didn't live here then you, like many other families unfortunately coping with an addict, would have a family friendly place to come to for vacation where treatment is available.

Look at all the things that are being done to make the area more attractive to families. We have the (can I say it?) new speed limit. Bikes are going to quiet down. Some of those free spirited bikers may soon have their scary hair and head covered with a helmet. Boat noise regulations. You see the trend here. Make a friendlier environment to attract more people. Portray the area as a place for all.

Attracting more families is good for business right? More visitors and vacationers means more $$$ coming to the area. That would help fill many of those vacancies, empty restaurant seats stores and businesses that suffered last season. IT creates jobs and is good for the area economy.

Why if I could, I'd put my name as sponsor of the clinic issue. I'd use my first initial to make it formal. It is "A". So it would read Submitted by A Joe Kerr.
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Old 02-07-2009, 03:16 PM   #47
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Joe...I am not sure, but I think what you are talking about is a rehab center, where a patient/addict goes and stays for awhile.
What is being proposed for Laconia is a Methadone Clinic. A patient's visit is less than 10 minutes...in and out. As long as it takes to sign in, ingest the methadone, and be on their way.

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Old 02-08-2009, 03:23 AM   #48
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Joe...I am not sure, but I think what you are talking about is a rehab center, where a patient/addict goes and stays for awhile.
What is being proposed for Laconia is a Methadone Clinic. A patient's visit is less than 10 minutes...in and out. As long as it takes to sign in, ingest the methadone, and be on their way.
Sorry I was not clear sa. I do have an idea how a methadone clinic works. It is like a drive through drug store except you walk in and receive your dose. Then return 24 to 36 hours later and get another dose.

With a clinic in place, those families with a member who uses methadone have a place to come for vacation. They don't vacation at the clinic, they get area lodging and enjoy. The person who is on methadone therapy has a place to go to get their medicine. Without a clinic nearby those in need would not be able to come to the area for vacation or they would satisfy their needs in a less family friendly manner. The tranquility and beauty of the lakes region is a fine setting to relieve tensions and relax. Good for the whole family particularly when they are caring for a family member with a problem. It is another attraction to the area.

The clinic will help cut down drug related thefts for locals making other tourists and area residents safer and more secure. MA has just decriminalized marijuana possession. A misdemeanor for an ounce or less. That is a drawing card for pot heads. NH and a Laconia methadone clinic draws a different crowd.

A methadone clinic helps make the area a more family friendly place to be.
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Old 02-08-2009, 08:01 AM   #49
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My sister lived in Lynn and a methadone clinic was opened on her short residential street. They had a very hard time selling their houseand when they finally did they lost a lot of money. It was not a family friendly place and it was not Disneyland.
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Old 02-08-2009, 08:29 AM   #50
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My sister lived in Lynn and a methadone clinic was opened on her short residential street. They had a very hard time selling their houseand when they finally did they lost a lot of money. It was not a family friendly place and it was not Disneyland.
OK, but on the other hand, what happens to real property values when the neighborhood has a rampant drug problem, with drug houses?

For an extreme example, consider many of our major American cities, e.g. The Bronx: while blocks levelled, demolished, with scores of abandoned buildings; burnt hulks of cars left untowed on the streets.

The problem, people, is not the methadone clinics, which are innocuous and well meaning responses to a major problem, the problem is the availability and use of hard drugs.

Junkies are victims; the trafficers should be hunted down and penalties enhanced, to include the death penalty if deemed appropriate.

There can be no happy ending here.
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Old 02-08-2009, 09:30 AM   #51
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Great idea,JK....maybe the Chamber of Commerce could pick up on it and run ads accross the country.."Junkies welcome...stay wasted while enjoying the lakes" Joe,you're speaking of these people as though they we all fuzzy,loving families of professional types,mavbe doctors and lawyers,who just happen to have a loving member who needs a little help with a small problem.I think you'll find that the type of "families" that you'd attract are as bad as the junkies themselves.
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Old 02-08-2009, 12:00 PM   #52
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A methadone clinic helps make the area a more family friendly place to be.
They could put that right on the exit 20 sign under lakes region and gunstock ski area
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Old 02-08-2009, 02:17 PM   #53
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"...The Bronx: while blocks levelled, demolished, with scores of abandoned buildings; burnt hulks of cars left untowed on the streets...the problem is the availability and use of hard drugs..."
The City of St. Louis knew what to do about hard drugs:



http://www.aliciapatterson.org/APF0801/Cohn/Cohn.html
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Old 02-09-2009, 09:19 AM   #54
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Sorry but Junkies are not victims.Did somebody force that needle in their arm the first time?Everybody is a victim these days in the liberal view of the world.
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Old 02-09-2009, 10:53 AM   #55
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They're victims in the sense that they cannot just quit, although they might want to.

They're like late stage alcoholics, or people who embezzle to support an out of control gambling habit.

Regardless, there is a rampant drug problem in America, and like the 800 pound gorilla in the room, it cannot be successfully ignored.

Oh sure, we as individuals can arrange our daily lives so as to minimize our exposure to these unseemly elements, but what if it is your kid, or neighbor?

What then?

I see the destructive effects of drug abuse on a near daily basis as it impacts people in divorce and custody situations.

Until recently, I saw the greatest problem with meth, but now cocaine is ascending, as is oxy.
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Old 02-10-2009, 12:39 PM   #56
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First off while I agree with many of you, I think the word "junkie" is thrown around a bit too liberally if anything. Not every person who seeks treatment for addiction is the stereo-typical heroin addict sticking themselves with needles. That's not the case anymore. Nowadays more people are seeking treatment for addictions to pain pills that were prescribed to them by Doctors.

Case in point: I have a good friend who was in a car accident four years ago. She suffered a great deal of trauma to her spine and ruptured three disks in her back. She was barely able to walk for weeks afterward. Instead of sending her to continual physical therapy, chiropractors, aquatherapy etc. her Doctor prescribed her enough pain medication to knock out a horse, and told her all the other options available to treat pain were "useless". After two years her doses had quadrupled as her tolerance quickly adjusted. Shortly after her "know it all" Doctor got in trouble with the DEA for over-prescribing narcotics and not keeping accurate records, and his license was suspended. She went to pick up her prescriptions and found a note stating that this would be the last RX her would be able to write her and any other patients. An estimated 75 patients that he had basically turned into drug addicts were left to fend for themselves. No other Doctors would agree to prescribe her the medications, or even wean her off. I myself took her to the ER once where they gave her a shot and suggested she go to a detox facility

I accompanied her to a follow up appointment with a Pain Specialist. The woman was very honest and told her that this was no way to treat chronic pain. If my friend were ever to be involved in an accident there would be no way to stabilize her condition seeing she was already on such high doses of narcotics. She was far too young to be on such high doses of narcotics, for when the tolerance rises to a certain point, there's nothing left to do. After a long time, no drug will do it anymore. She suggested the same exact things I had suggested to her years before. Aquatherapy, physical therapy, massage and chiropractics. Also many non-narcotic pain medicines are helpful. My friend was left with no choice but to turn to a methadone clinic to help with her withdrawal. She lives in Manchester and attended a clinic owned by another company. However after six months of therapy and working in conjunction with the Pain Specialist she is narcotic free and has learned many new ways to manage her pain.

My point is that not all people who seek treatment are "junkies", or "bad" people. Some of them have become addicts and don't even know it. I work in the pharmaceutical industry and I will tell you, a lot of Doctors are nothing but legal drug pushers. No it is not the entire fault of the Doctor, I know that the Patient has the choice to say no, however when you have a Doctor telling you that this is the only thing that will work, most people tend to believe the Doctor.

After giving birth to my daughter via c-section I had more people trying to push pills on me then I could imagine. I left the hospital with a stack of prescriptions, and all but one went in the trash. Not to mention the things they were trying to dose me with while I was in labor....unimaginable. It's no wonder addiction is so rampant in this society.
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Old 02-10-2009, 01:01 PM   #57
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Talking The Letter I promised

Here is the letter I promised to post from a person who had been reading this thread and wanted to be heard yet remain anonymous. I am posting this with permission from the author. I did not edit any content but did edit the font for easier reading - Nadia

I wanted to briefly clarify some things I have been reading in this thread. First of all the clinic I attend is owned by the same company that is opening the Laconia clinic. I am a 28 year old resident of Laconia. I work two jobs and have no children. I live in an apartment by myself and do not collect any type of welfare or use state insurance. I pay cash for my treatment. I have been getting treatment for close to nine months now. The clinic does not advertise. There are people walking in and out constantly but other then that you would never know what the place is. Patients are clearly told not to linger in the parking lot as it may be cause for discharge. There are two staff members continuously monitoring the parking lot through the large glass windows in the front of the building. They watch for clients parking in handicapped spots, lingering in the parking lot, or any suspicious activity. One time I parked in a handicapped spot (being lazy) and I was immediately reprimanded when I walked inside. They saw me through the glass window and paged the person at the front desk who told me I was not to park in the handicapped spots. I also witnessed staff members quickly approach a female patient who had borrowed another patients lock box and attempted to walk into the clinic and pass it off as her own. The clinic was giving most patients take home doses due to a large snow storm the next day. This person did not have a lock box (which is mandatory for any take home doses) and in a last ditch attempt to avoid driving in the snow storm, attempted to borrow someone else’s. This is the extent of “criminal” activity I have witnessed. The parking lot is well monitored by the staff. No one is permitted to loiter. There have been no accidents that I have witnessed. No one appears impaired inside or outside the clinic. When I first decided to seek help I called and was made a next day appt. I was asked some questions on the phone. How long I had been using, why I wanted to stop, and how the clinic could help me? My intake fee would be $75 and if I was to be dosed that day (which was not promised and was up to the Nurse) it would be an additional $15. A total of $90. On my first day I had an appointment with a counselor. He asked me a lot of questions about my history and was very friendly. He explained all the rules and policies of the clinic. I did a lot of signing and answering questions. After roughly two hours a nurse came in and did an assessment of my physical withdrawal symptoms. She took my vitals and looked at a few other things like my eyes, my arms for goose bumps, and asked me to explain how I was feeling. She put my answers on a scale, and depending on the answer a number corresponded. She then added up the numbers and said I would be started at 20 mg’s today. My counselor took me up to the dosing window and explained the privacy policies. One patient at a time at the window, no cell phones, no drinks etc. When I went to the window I was greeted by the same nurse. She was very friendly and compassionate, as I was not feeling well. She issued me my first dose in a clearly labeled plastic cup which was sealed prior. She removed the lid and handed it to me. She instructed me to fill it with water from the fountain next to the window and swig it quickly afterward, as the taste is horrible, and it was. My face made her laugh. She told me that the nurses will prompt you to speak to them when your finished, checking your not hiding any of the liquid in your mouth. Hence why beverages are not allowed in the line. A partial dose can be spit back into a drink and given to someone else outside the clinic (if your that desperate). She gave me some tips to alleviate the symptoms of withdrawal since they would still be present. 20 mgs is a low dose. My counselor instructed me to call the clinic, the 24 hour emergency line, or visit my local hospital should I experience any adverse symptoms. I was given a list of the signs of an allergic reaction, and the phone numbers. I was told to return the next day at 6 AM to see the clinic Doctor. I was seen immediately. He reviewed my medical history, double checked any meds I was on, and asked me more questions pertaining to my medical history. He then asked for more detail on my drug usage, and my withdrawal symptoms. He again took my vital signs. He told me that I would be given 40 mg today and within two weeks would be stabilized. He wished me luck on my way out and gave me his hours for future reference. I was given 40 mg at the dosing window. I was allowed to increase my dose every two days by 10 mg’s, and with the Nurses recommendation, until I reached a comfortable level or 80 mg where the Doctor had maxed me out. After 80 mg’s I had to see the Doctor again. Luckily I was stabilized at 80 mg. The Nurse’s questioned me every day about my symptoms. They called me by my first name. They always asked me how I was feeling. They did not encourage me to increase my dose constantly. They actually encouraged me to try staying at a lower dose for a few days. It took nearly two weeks before I felt well again. After a month I was completely back to normal. It is $15 per day to dose no matter your dose amount. For the first three months you are drug tested weekly by urine screenings. After that it is once monthly. I have not failed any drug screenings so I do not know what happens when you do! However I do know you can be at risk of discharge for failing drug screenings and also you will never be given take home doses. I just earned my third take home dose. I drive to Concord four out of seven days per week. All patients are mandated to attend certain groups on a regular basis depending on where they are in the program. There are also groups that are not mandatory but are available for support. You must meet with your counselor two times per month at the least, although they are available at anytime for the most part. The clinic has roughly 500 patients. The staff are friendly and helpful. Most of them know you by name. A day in my life on a day I must attend the clinic is as follows: I awake at 4:45 AM to make it to the clinic by 5:30. I run inside, tell the person at the desk my patient number (which they usually already know), and they hand me a card. I get into line if there is one. I go to the dosing window and hand the Nurse my card. We talk quickly about my day or possibly the weather, I dose and I leave. The person at the desk greets me away. I drive off and back home to get ready for work at 8:00 AM. I am not at all impaired by this medication. I am fully tolerant to my dose which has only gone up once to 90 mg in all this time, and I feel no side effects. My work, driving, and life in general has never been impaired by methadone. If I did not tell people I was in treatment I guarantee they would never even have thought! There is nothing about my appearance that suggests I am a “junkie”. For the record, I have never used heroin or a needle. I was addicted to Oxycontin that I purchased off the street. My counselor and I have designed a treatment plan that suggests I begin weaning slowly off methadone after one year of treatment. I will wean by incriments of 1 milligram per week. For the record I have never been in any trouble with the law or had car accidents. I am a law abiding citizen as are many others who attend the clinic with me. The clinic conducts business in a very professional manner and I have nothing but good things to say about them. I support the Laconia Clinic 100% and look forward to not having to drive to Concord four days a week. I know right now it sparks a lot of controversy however I am sure once it is there you won’t even notice it. If people have a place to go to get treated there is less of a chance of them commiting dangerous crimes to support their habits. The cost of methadone is quite low in comparison to a drug habit. I was spending $1,000 per week before I found the clinic. I have always been treated with respect by the staff there. The clinic is very clean and insists that patients maintain a professional appearance and conduct (no coming in with pajama’s). There is absolutely no lingering in the parking lot permitted and I feel that Laconia insisting that a Police Officer be present is not warranted. There is no crime in the parking lot. Our parking lot is shared with three other business’s. I personally feel this is an attempt for Laconia to profit off the clinic, or drive the clinic away because it may cost them too much money and they may not accept the offer. People seeking treatment don’t deserve to be harassed by the Police and I feel that’s what they will be doing there. Thank you for your time and listening to me and for posting this for me
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Old 02-10-2009, 01:02 PM   #58
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Nadia's recent post (#56) put a new light on the subject, in my opinion. I never thought that something like this could occur, but after reading Nadia's post, I now see how it can and does happen.

I am now "on the fence" regarding the methadone clinic. I was against it.

I believe we need to help/support the people in the situation Nadia has described so effectively. They are "hooked" through no fault of their own.

I am still wondering why there are no programs to get people in this situation off these drugs, instead of having a clinic to supply the durgs. I would think that path would be best for people in the situation Nadia has described.

Nadia, thanks for giving me a new view of those in need.

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Old 02-10-2009, 01:23 PM   #59
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I am still wondering why there are no programs to get people in this situation off these drugs, instead of having a clinic to supply the durgs. I would think that path would be best for people in the situation Nadia has described.

R2B
The reason why they make it so hard for people to get off the drugs lies far beneath the surface. When you dig real deep you get to the bottom, and realize it's the drug companies who are responsible for this menace. Actually they are nowhere near the bottom, they are way up top, but for demonstrational purposes I used the above analogy. These companies have NO interest in people getting off these drugs. You are not a patient in their eyes, you are a customer, and you are lining their pockets as long as you continue to ingest these medications. They train and entice Doctors to prescribe these medications by offering them vacations, gifts, bonuses etc. If you think oil tycoons make large salaries, check out the CEO of Astra Zeneca or Glaxo Smith Kline and see what they take to the bank at the expense of millions of American's. It will blow your mind.

Most methadone clinics operate the same way. They have no interest in losing a "customer". These are the ones we typically see depicted in the media. However, there are a few clinics who are recovery based and realize that although weaning a customer off methadone may cause them to lose some money, there will always be new customers banging down the door. Because of my friend I mentioned, and other stories I have heard, I have to believe there are some clinics out there that are for profit, yet good at the same time. They are smart enough to realize they will never be out of business. Sounds like Colonial Management, the company who wants to open a clinic in Laconia seems to operate this way.

R2B, glad I could be helpful.
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Old 02-10-2009, 01:29 PM   #60
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Nadia's recent post (#56) put a new light on the subject, in my opinion. I never thought that something like this could occur, but after reading Nadia's post, I now see how it can and does happen.

I am now "on the fence" regarding the methadone clinic. I was against it.

I believe we need to help/support the people in the situation Nadia has described so effectively. They are "hooked" through no fault of their own.

I am still wondering why there are no programs to get people in this situation off these drugs, instead of having a clinic to supply the durgs. I would think that path would be best for people in the situation Nadia has described.

Nadia, thanks for giving me a new view of those in need.

R2B
These is a path R2B. I travelled it.
As long as you have good health insurance (or a lot of money), and a doctor willing to treat you this way, a drug named Suboxone can be prescribed. It can be filled at any pharmacy, and the patient never has to visit a clinic or treatment center. The drug needs to be taken in proper dosage, and the patient's progress (or addict's progress, whichever word you're comfortable with) closely followed by the doctor (in my case, weekly visits).
Long, long story...actaully better left for a PM if someone is curious or perhaps is in need of advice or direction.
Unless it is for pain related to terminal cancer, stay away from Oxycontin people. It is nothing more than herion made in a legal lab. They both deliver the same message to the brain, and cause it to fire off signals and chemicals instantly. After a long period of time, the brain "foregts" how to create these signals and chemicals on it's own, and "shorts out". The results...the most god awful feelings a human being could ever be asked to deal with.
The Meth, or in this case, Suboxone creates instand relief for the patient (addict). Anyway..there is another way....than visiting Methadone Clinics.
Want more? Ask for a PM...happy to help.
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Old 02-10-2009, 01:36 PM   #61
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If Nadia is correct, and I, for one, think it is very likely that she is correct, American business, and possibly America, is much more broken than I would ever have imagined.

This is a very sad result of our capitalism model, a model that I have always believed in, and will still believe in with the right controls. I would hope that with all the reform going on, someone will be smart enough to address this and to keep innocent people from getting trapped.

What a mess for the unfortunate people in the situation Nadia outlined in post #56.

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Old 02-10-2009, 01:52 PM   #62
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Question Suboxone v. Methadone

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Originally Posted by sa meredith View Post
a drug named Suboxone can be prescribed. It can be filled at any pharmacy, and the patient never has to visit a clinic or treatment center. The drug needs to be taken in proper dosage, and the patient's progress (or addict's progress, whichever word you're comfortable with) closely followed by the doctor (in my case, weekly visits).
Glad you brought that up. There are three FDA approved medicinal options for treating the withdrawal symptoms of opiate addiction. Methadone, Suboxone and LAAM (Long Acting Methadone). Just some food for thought. There are roughly fifteen Doctor's in the Lakes Region who prescribe Suboxone for treatment of opiate addiction. Suboxone is a Schedule II controlled narcotic. It is a combination of Buprenorphine and Naloxone. Buprenorphine is a very long acting narcotic and Naloxone acts as an opiod blocker. Suboxone is available by prescription and is used as a sublingual tablet taken 1-3 times daily depending on instructions.

Suboxone is fairly expensive. Tablets can cost 8-10 dollars each. Doctors visits can be very expensive for those who are not insured. Methadone is much cheaper as is LAAM. Point being there are already clinics and Doctors in the Lakes Region who are treating addicts on a regular basis with Suboxone. Would you believe one of them is right in the Weirs? The Alpenrose Plaza is home to Weirs Beach Health Center, where the Doctor specializes in Suboxone treatment. The clinics are already here, but Methadone seemed to be the last to move in.

Although Suboxone has less sedating effects than Methadone and is considered to be less addicting, there are users who say much different. I am a member of a forum where prescription medications are discussed, and I hear many people saying the opposite is true. I also work in a pharmacy part-time as I am studying to be a pharmacist, and I hear patients describe ugly symptoms and side effects all the time. Suboxone has a "ceiling effect" meaning after the drug reaches it's peak it will do nothing even if the person takes more and more, making overdose less likely. Suboxone blocks other opiod medications therefore a person taking Suboxone will not feel the effects of let's say, Oxycontin. Suboxone sits on the opiod receptors and won't let anybody else in. However, Suboxone is also narcotic, and is in the same schedule as Methadone and LAAM. Suboxone eases the symptoms of withdrawal, but does not completely wipe them out. So those in the beggining stages of Suboxone treatment are still experiencing withdrawal symptoms, being treated with a new drug, and driving around the Lakes Region as well. Right in the heart of Weirs Beach...

Just some food for thought....
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Old 02-10-2009, 04:29 PM   #63
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That was quite an insightful letter, thank you. I am curious though, much of the information written on methadone states that judgment and reaction time can be impaired, and some sites even state that driving is not recommended after receiving a "dose". The person in the letter is driving immediately after receiving the dose. Is this normal? Is the dosage amount a factor in whether any impairment is occurring? If the Laconia Police are situated outside the clinic will they be administering DUI testing before people get back on the road?

Not being a Laconia resident I have no preference as to yea or nay on this clinic. However because the drug problem is so bad everywhere this situation could arise in my town or anywhere else. I appreciate the information provided here, so that before a clinic is built down the street from my home or office I'll have some insight into the pros and cons.
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Old 02-10-2009, 08:05 PM   #64
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Default Methadone Clinic

It is not a good idea to place a clinic in a tourist area. It attracts a bad crowd of people and is seedy and unsafe. These clinics are a joke, for a profit and the people do not want to stop the drug. I am a Maternity nurse and these methadone mothers come in pregnant and deliver these poor drug addicted babies, yes, methadone is very addicting for the baby, and these poor babies suffer will all kinds of withdrawal symptoms and pain. The mothers are all on welfare, so we are paying for this and the babies have to be in special care nurseries for up to 3 months to be weaned off of the methadone and we pay for that too. They know they should not be getting pregnant while on methadone and they do not care. Very selfish and irresponsible and it costs all of us a fortune.
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Old 02-11-2009, 06:52 AM   #65
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Default Joe Camel...?...Meet Methadone...

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Originally Posted by sa meredith View Post
"...After a long period of time, the brain "forgets" how to create these signals and chemicals on it's own, and "shorts out". The results...the most god awful feelings a human being could ever be asked to deal with..."
Worse than kidney stone attacks?

Kidney stone- and gallbladder- attacks are a "10+" on the 1-10 pain scale: I know, 'cause I've had both.

(Women who've had childbirth and kidney stone attacks say kidney stone pain is worse).

Quote:
Originally Posted by sa meredith View Post
"...Unless it is for pain related to terminal cancer, stay away from Oxycontin people..."
Since 2001, I've suffered about 20 kidney stone attacks. For that pain, I am alternately prescribed Oxycodone and Hydrocodone—"the poor-man's opium". (Variously known as Vicodin, Percocet, Tylox, and Roxilox). Oxycontin—illegally obtained—has been nicknamed "redneck opium".

For me, anyway, Oxycodone and Hydrocodone produce the same amount of pain reduction: that is to say, a scant reduction in kidney stone pain but feeling sleepy while suffering pain anyway. I can't speak to methadone, but I have driven a car while suffering an attack—and again while medicated during an attack. While neither case is advocated here, it is possible to "work-through" the effects of such medications.

On those occasions when I had mistaken my usual creeping back pain as another attack (a wrongly anticipated attack) the effect of Oxycodone or Hydrocodone is to take ALL aches away from ALL of the body.

Based on the result of those occasional "self-mis-diagnoses", I'd expect that nearly all of us live with a certain amount of discomfort all the time.

For those of us who are risk-averse—like me today—the rejection of those tablets for mere discomfort or for recreation is very strong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sa meredith View Post
"...These is a path R2B. I travelled it.
As long as you have good health insurance (or a lot of money)..."
It saddens me to learn that all of us "insured" are paying for those who most-often addict themselves.

Except for one occasion when I threatened to leave a neighbor's house when he couldn't restrain himself any longer from "lighting-up"—I've never been around people who use any illegal drug. I must be quite a fossil to say that. (Still, I'd advise that for all—and especially children).

Obviously, I'm opposed to a methadone clinic anywhere near me.

To finish here, I'll add what I've asserted before: the "gateway drug" isn't what you'd expect...it's tobacco.

IMHO
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Old 02-11-2009, 11:15 AM   #66
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Default Please note

APS...please note...
My post read, "...most god awful FEELINGS", as opposed to "PAIN".
Opiod withdrawal, in it's onset, comes with alot more than pain (although there is indeed plenty of pain). When the brain signals first "short out", one feels many contradictory feelings/emotions. Imagine, if you will, feeling hot and cold at the same time, tired and awake, happy and sad, hungry and full.
It's insane. Just impossible to be become comfortable. Death seems like a better option. Truly. Oxycontin is dangerous stuff...and some people become addicted thru no fault of their own, without even realizing it. Of coures, at some point, the person certainly knows they are abusing it, as opposed to using it. And of course, obtaining it thru channels considered less than traditional.
Sometimes, these are white collar professionals, whom you would never expect. The good news...there is help everywhere, for people (OK, addicts) who truly want it.
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Old 02-11-2009, 11:34 AM   #67
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Acres Per Second's posts are becoming as cryptic and hard to follow sometimes as FLL's!!
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Old 02-11-2009, 12:26 PM   #68
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Lightbulb Gateway

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Originally Posted by Acres per Second View Post
To finish here, I'll add what I've asserted before: the "gateway drug" isn't what you'd expect...it's tobacco.

IMHO
I've never considered tobacco a gateway drug. I thought it was alcohol. Now I've got to re-evaluate my gateway theory. Nicotine is definitely a drug and people do get highly addicted to it.
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Old 02-11-2009, 01:52 PM   #69
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Smile To Avoid Confusion

In order to avoid confusion and misunderstanding I feel it is important to post the following information. I apologize for it's length but it is difficult to explain without using examples:

Oxycodone and Oxycontin, although similar are two different drugs.

Oxycodone is an opioid narcotic analgesic used to relieve moderate to severe pain. It is an immediate release drug and does not contain any Acetomenophen or Ibuprofen. When you combine Oxycodone with Acetomenophen you get the drug Percocet. Percocet is a trade name. It is sold under the generic names: Roxicodone, Endocet, or Oxycodone w/APAP. When you combine Oxycodone with Ibuprofen you get the drug Combunox. This again is a trade name. This is a fairly new drug and I am unsure of the generic names. When you combine Oxycodone with Aspirin the drug Percodan is made. All formulations typically have a 4-6 hour window of "relief" in the body, and all formulations of this drug are considered "short" term pain releivers.

Oxycontin is an opioid narcotic analgesic used to releive severe pain. It is a time released version of Oxycodone. It does not contain any Acetomenophen or Ibuprofen. There are no generic versions of Oxycontin. This drug is considered a "long" term pain reliever and typically has a window of 12 hours of releif in the body. Oxycontin has a very high potential for abuse as we all know. The problem occurs when users crush the pill, and then inject, inhale or swallow the crushed pill. The immediate release feature of the drug is destroyed and a copious amount of medication is released into the blood stream immediately.

Hydrocodone w/APAP is a generic version of Vicodin. It is a combination of Hydrocodone Bitartrate and Acetomenophen. When Hydrocodone Bitartrate is combined with Ibuprofen, the drug Vicoprofen is made. I do not believe there is a generic version of Vicoprofen. There are other formulations of Hydrocodone Bitartrate and Acetomenophen known as Lortab and Zydone. A lower dose of Acetomenophen is used. Vicodin ES is also a controlled release version of Hydrocodone w/APAP. All formulations are narcotic opioid analgesics used for releif of "short" term pain and typically have a window of 4-6 hours, with the exception of Vicodin ES which is typically used 2-4 times per day.

All of these drugs can be compared to heroin in one form or another because they are all derivatives of opium, hence the term "opioid". Heroin is also derived from opium and is closest in form to the drug Morphine. All of these drugs have similar side effects and can cause a certain degree of impairment, although there are many circumstances to consider. Tolerance is the main circumstance to consider. After taking these drugs for a certain amount of time the body becomes dependant and must use more of the drug to get the same amount of pain releif. Physical addiction occurs regardless of whether the drug is taken as prescribed, or is taken in double or triple doses. However, tolerance builds much faster when the dose is doubled or tripled (abused), or the drug is delivered by methods other then orally (inhaled/snorted, injected, chewed).

An individual on daily Methadone Maintenence has built a tolerance to their dosage. The same goes for a person taking pain medication. They may have experienced side effects at first, however once tolerance is built, side effects tend to diminish. Judgement is rarely impaired by those who are tolerant to their doses. During the first two weeks when they are being stabilized, withdrawal may be present and may slightly impair judgement, but not the Methadone itself. This can be very tricky to understand. Put it this way. Let's say someone is abusing Oxycontin. They are taking 4, 80 mg tablets per day via inhalation or "snorting". They have done this for a year, every day. What they have done is built themselves an enormous tolerance. If they do not use Oxycontin within 12 hours they rapidly become ill. A manifestation of numerous physical and emotional symptoms crop up like SA Meredith said, make you wish you were dead. They decide to go to get help and get on Methadone. Methadone clinics must abide by certain laws. They cannot give someone a dose larger then 35 mg on their first day, or increase doses in increments larger then 10 mg every two days. The persons physical symptoms are evaluated and they are given a dose of 20 mg's of Methadone. They are only permitted to raise their dose every two days, by ten milligrams. To stop the symptoms of withdrawal for a person with that habit I would make an educated guess that 120 mg's of Methadone would just barely cut it. You can imagine how long it will take for them to get to that level. During this time period I would suggest that they may be slightly impaired due to withdrawal, not the Methadone itself. The person already has a high tolerance and would not become impaired until the dose of Methadone got high enough to overpower the amount of Oxycontin they were abusing prior. I know this is difficult to follow, but I hope that explains things a bit. Now, if one of us were to walk into the clinic and get a dose of 120 mgs, if we didn't die first, our judgement would be so impaired we would not even know where we were.
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Old 02-11-2009, 01:59 PM   #70
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Quote:
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It is not a good idea to place a clinic in a tourist area. It attracts a bad crowd of people and is seedy and unsafe. These clinics are a joke, for a profit and the people do not want to stop the drug. I am a Maternity nurse and these methadone mothers come in pregnant and deliver these poor drug addicted babies, yes, methadone is very addicting for the baby, and these poor babies suffer will all kinds of withdrawal symptoms and pain. The mothers are all on welfare, so we are paying for this and the babies have to be in special care nurseries for up to 3 months to be weaned off of the methadone and we pay for that too. They know they should not be getting pregnant while on methadone and they do not care. Very selfish and irresponsible and it costs all of us a fortune.
I have seen this brought up many times and although this area is largely tourism, it is also largely residential and is continually growing. Although I do not agree with Methadone usage during pregnancy, I must say that I think it is better for Mother and Baby to be exposed to one drug under medical supervision, then the Mother abusing a multitude of drugs in ranging doses to feed her addiction. Becoming pregnant does not shut the addiction switch off. Although many drug addicted women are able to "clean up their act" during pregnancy, and even thereafter, many are not. Addiction is an evil, ugly disease that is much stronger than any other desire. One drug under medical supervision has to be healthier then an out of control habit. When faced with two evils I respect someone for choosing the lesser. They know they can't clean themselves up, they admit they are weak, and do what they and Doctors think is best for their child. I also find your post a bit dismaying...sorry. If I were pregnant and using methadone, I would feel very discouraged after reading your post. I hope no mother who is/was pregnant and uses/used methadone ever reads that. Not everyone who seeks treatment is on welfare. Some of the smartest, brightest, successful people I have met battle with addiction.

Secondly, I have given birth to a child so I am qualified to say...during my entire pregnancy, during labor, and afterward I had more Doctor's, Nurses, and Psychologist's trying to stuff pills down my throat. Trying to get me to take anti-depressants for "post-partum" depression (that I did not even have), trying to pump me full of Pitocin, Nubain, Morphine, Phenargan, Anxiety Medications and so forth? But Methadone is unsafe? I'm confused...

Last edited by Nadia; 02-12-2009 at 12:59 PM.
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Old 02-11-2009, 02:55 PM   #71
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Default agree...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadia View Post
In order to avoid confusion and misunderstanding I feel it is important to post the following information. I apologize for it's length but it is difficult to explain without using examples:

Oxycodone and Oxycontin, although similar are two different drugs.

Oxycodone is an opioid narcotic analgesic used to relieve moderate to severe pain. It is an immediate release drug and does not contain any Acetomenophen or Ibuprofen. When you combine Oxycodone with Acetomenophen you get the drug Percocet. Percocet is a trade name. It is sold under the generic names: Roxicodone, Endocet, or Oxycodone w/APAP. When you combine Oxycodone with Ibuprofen you get the drug Combunox. This again is a trade name. This is a fairly new drug and I am unsure of the generic names. When you combine Oxycodone with Aspirin the drug Percodan is made. All formulations typically have a 4-6 hour window of "relief" in the body, and all formulations of this drug are considered "short" term pain releivers.

Oxycontin is an opioid narcotic analgesic used to releive severe pain. It is a time released version of Oxycodone. It does not contain any Acetomenophen or Ibuprofen. There are no generic versions of Oxycontin. This drug is considered a "long" term pain reliever and typically has a window of 12 hours of releif in the body. Oxycontin has a very high potential for abuse as we all know. The problem occurs when users crush the pill, and then inject, inhale or swallow the crushed pill. The immediate release feature of the drug is destroyed and a copious amount of medication is released into the blood stream immediately.

Hydrocodone w/APAP is a generic version of Vicodin. It is a combination of Hydrocodone Bitartrate and Acetomenophen. When Hydrocodone Bitartrate is combined with Ibuprofen, the drug Vicoprofen is made. I do not believe there is a generic version of Vicoprofen. There are other formulations of Hydrocodone Bitartrate and Acetomenophen known as Lortab and Zydone. A lower dose of Acetomenophen is used. Vicodin ES is also a controlled release version of Hydrocodone w/APAP. All formulations are narcotic opioid analgesics used for releif of "short" term pain and typically have a window of 4-6 hours, with the exception of Vicodin ES which is typically used 2-4 times per day.

All of these drugs can be compared to heroin in one form or another because they are all derivatives of opium, hence the term "opioid". Heroin is also derived from opium and is closest in form to the drug Morphine. All of these drugs have similar side effects and can cause a certain degree of impairment, although there are many circumstances to consider. Tolerance is the main circumstance to consider. After taking these drugs for a certain amount of time the body becomes dependant and must use more of the drug to get the same amount of pain releif. Physical addiction occurs regardless of whether the drug is taken as prescribed, or is taken in double or triple doses. However, tolerance builds much faster when the dose is doubled or tripled (abused), or the drug is delivered by methods other then orally (inhaled/snorted, injected, chewed).

An individual on daily Methadone Maintenence has built a tolerance to their dosage. The same goes for a person taking pain medication. They may have experienced side effects at first, however once tolerance is built, side effects tend to diminish. Judgement is rarely impaired by those who are tolerant to their doses. During the first two weeks when they are being stabilized, withdrawal may be present and may slightly impair judgement, but not the Methadone itself. This can be very tricky to understand. Put it this way. Let's say someone is abusing Oxycontin. They are taking 4, 80 mg tablets per day via inhalation or "snorting". They have done this for a year, every day. What they have done is built themselves an enormous tolerance. If they do not use Oxycontin within 12 hours they rapidly become ill. A manifestation of numerous physical and emotional symptoms crop up like SA Meredith said, make you wish you were dead. They decide to go to get help and get on Methadone. Methadone clinics must abide by certain laws. They cannot give someone a dose larger then 35 mg on their first day, or increase doses in increments larger then 10 mg every two days. The persons physical symptoms are evaluated and they are given a dose of 20 mg's of Methadone. They are only permitted to raise their dose every two days, by ten milligrams. To stop the symptoms of withdrawal for a person with that habit I would make an educated guess that 120 mg's of Methadone would just barely cut it. You can imagine how long it will take for them to get to that level. During this time period I would suggest that they may be slightly impaired due to withdrawal, not the Methadone itself. The person already has a high tolerance and would not become impaired until the dose of Methadone got high enough to overpower the amount of Oxycontin they were abusing prior. I know this is difficult to follow, but I hope that explains things a bit. Now, if one of us were to walk into the clinic and get a dose of 120 mgs, if we didn't die first, our judgement would be so impaired we would not even know where we were.
good explanation here....although I cringe at your example...."4, 80's per day for a year". Whew! Now that's a problem. And an expensive one. ($1200/$1500 plus, per week, street price)
Remember also, just about all abusers remove (or crush) the "time release" part of the oxy tablet, making the "buzz" instant and potent.
Awful, awful stuff...
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Old 02-12-2009, 12:38 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa meredith View Post
good explanation here....although I cringe at your example...."4, 80's per day for a year". Whew! Now that's a problem. And an expensive one.($1200/$1500 plus, per week, street price)
Remember also, just about all abusers remove (or crush) the "time release" part of the oxy tablet, making the "buzz" instant and potent.
Awful, awful stuff...
Ha ha I hear you. That was a pricey example, but we both know it happens. Especially when the medication is prescribed. Like I've said before, I work as a Pharmacy Technician part-time, monthly prescriptions for 120, 80mg Oxycontin's are not uncommon. Furthermore, with the exception of one of my Uncle's, I have never met anyone who uses their Oxycontin as prescribed. It's always abused or diverted. People with prescriptions like the one I mentioned above who are on Medicaid for example, pay $2.00 for that prescription. It has a potential street value of nearly $10,000!!! That's living the high life!!

When my Mother first purchased an 8 unit apartment building in downtown Laconia, I moved into one of the units with my husband and managed the building for her. The former landlord warned her that some of the tenants were problematic and disruptive. Come to find out one of the tenants was selling her prescribed Oxycontin. I started to catch on after living there for less than a week. At about 4 pm the traffic would start, up and down the stairs, in and out. Doors slamming, wheels squealing, people yelling. She was not quiet about it either. She did not realize I was outside one day when she opened the window and yelled out to a customer I presume..."I only have two left dude". Her rent was always paid, even ahead sometimes. Her apartment was furnished beautifully, she wore designer clothing, and drove a fairly new Nissan Maxima. Hard to imagine considering she was unemployed? Sooner or later she was evicted, and from over-hearing conversations on the porch I found out who her Doctor was. I placed a call to her as well. This girl was making a better living then I do off a bottle of pills...
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Old 02-12-2009, 06:31 PM   #73
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Smile Ironhorsetim's Poll

Thank you Ironhorsetim for creating the poll on whether or not the Laconia Methadone Clinic should be allowed to operate in O'Shea Industrial Park. Here are the results:

There were a total of 69 voters

26.09% of people voted yes to the question (18 people)
73.91% of people voted no to the question (51 people)

Thank you IHT and to all of those who voted
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Old 02-12-2009, 09:49 PM   #74
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That was quite an insightful letter, thank you. I am curious though, much of the information written on methadone states that judgment and reaction time can be impaired, and some sites even state that driving is not recommended after receiving a "dose". The person in the letter is driving immediately after receiving the dose. Is this normal? Is the dosage amount a factor in whether any impairment is occurring? If the Laconia Police are situated outside the clinic will they be administering DUI testing before people get back on the road?

Not being a Laconia resident I have no preference as to yea or nay on this clinic. However because the drug problem is so bad everywhere this situation could arise in my town or anywhere else. I appreciate the information provided here, so that before a clinic is built down the street from my home or office I'll have some insight into the pros and cons.
I realize that there has been alot of information posted on this thread, but I was wondering if my question regarding the capabilities of someone getting a methadone dose could be answered? Does anyone know whether a person receiving a dose at a clinic is capable of driving without being a candidate for DUI?
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Old 02-12-2009, 09:59 PM   #75
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Smile Pineedles

Pineedles,
In my post #69 if you read the last paragraph I tried my best to explain this and answer your question
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Old 02-13-2009, 09:04 AM   #76
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Thanks Nadia for the location. I see it now, thanks.

So, having a methadone clinic located near or within walking distance to a larger population of patients would not need to be a critical part of the criteria for location of the clinic, is what I can draw from this. Not having to drive a long distance is a convenience rather than a need.

I don't want to appear overly callous but I would imagine most of the folks who are receiving treatment were not the victims of poor doctoring. In so much as we are all economically challenged today I have cast my vote in the poll for not having the center setup in Laconia. It is unfortunate that some of those who must be inconvienced by having to travel a greater distance are there by no fault of their own.

It's kind of a similar situation to what happened here in CT, but not. There was much complaining when a local social security office was going to be closed here a couple of years ago. The folks that needed to travel to this ofice would be inconvienced by a longer drive to another office. Most everyone who used this local office did nothing more than grow old. The closing took place anyway. Just an economic reality today unfortunately.
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Old 02-13-2009, 11:05 AM   #77
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Arrow My First Opioids

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Originally Posted by KonaChick View Post
Acres Per Second's posts are becoming as cryptic and hard to follow sometimes as FLL's!!
Like FLL's? ACKKKK! Horrors! That just can't be!

FLL, actually, wherever he's from—could out-Yankee any Yankee I know. I particularly appreciate his posts on cottage maintenance. I acknowledge him as one of the earliest and likeable member at this forum.

As to cryptic—I don't think there's been a change.

...but sorry about that... ...I'll attempt some clarifications through a summary:

1) Gallbladder or kidneystones are the worst pains humans can encounter. (Pets, too!)
2) Childbirth is less painful
3) Kidneystone pain has a long onset, and begins with an ordinary dull pain in the lower back.
4) When properly anticipated, opioids offer relief after 20 minutes—but only because you're sleepy (and still in pain).
5) When that dull back pain in the lower back fails to materialize as an intense pain, the pre-emptive taking of opioids will erase all the ordinary pains that we tolerate day-to-day.
6) I advise not taking opioids for that ordinary pain and definitely not for recreational use. I suspect an addictive component to both.
7) You can drive after taking the opioids Hydrocodone or Oxycodone—just not with the full attention that driving demands. ("May cause drowsiness, alcohol intensifies effect, breathing problems if dose is exceeded, use care when operating machines, etc.)
8) Being "risk-averse" means don't do any jumping from perfectly good aircraft.
9) Except for one instance, I've never stayed around people who use any illegal drug. (Edit from my earlier post here: There were two road-racing encounters which I'll save for the blog here).
10) Not just for the children—I advise staying away from any persons who could enable your addiction to anything. For example, drug-addled actor Robert Downey, Jr. was introduced to MJ at age eight.
11) There is no smoke that is harmless to breathe.
12) Recreational drug use increases the cost of healthcare for all who pay insurance premiums: X-Generation's Medicare recipients may "break the bank".
13) I vote for no methadone clinic anywhere near me—and Laconia is too close.

Heck, Montreal is too close.
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Old 02-13-2009, 03:55 PM   #78
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...
FLL, actually, wherever he's from—could out-Yankee any Yankee I know. ...
Yup, I'll drink to that
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Old 02-13-2009, 04:54 PM   #79
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Like FLL's? ACKKKK! Horrors! That just can't be!

FLL, actually, wherever he's from—could out-Yankee any Yankee I know. I particularly appreciate his posts on cottage maintenance. I acknowledge him as one of the earliest and likeable member at this forum.

As to cryptic—I don't think there's been a change.

...but sorry about that... ...I'll attempt some clarifications through a summary:

1) Gallbladder or kidneystones are the worst pains humans can encounter. (Pets, too!)
2) Childbirth is less painful
3) Kidneystone pain has a long onset, and begins with an ordinary dull pain in the lower back.
4) When properly anticipated, opioids offer relief after 20 minutes—but only because you're sleepy (and still in pain).
5) When that dull back pain in the lower back fails to materialize as an intense pain, the pre-emptive taking of opioids will erase all the ordinary pains that we tolerate day-to-day.
6) I advise not taking opioids for that ordinary pain and definitely not for recreational use. I suspect an addictive component to both.
7) You can drive after taking the opioids Hydrocodone or Oxycodone—just not with the full attention that driving demands. ("May cause drowsiness, alcohol intensifies effect, breathing problems if dose is exceeded, use care when operating machines, etc.)
8) Being "risk-averse" means don't do any jumping from perfectly good aircraft.
9) Except for one instance, I've never stayed around people who use any illegal drug. (Edit from my earlier post here: There were two road-racing encounters which I'll save for the blog here).
10) Not just for the children—I advise staying away from any persons who could enable your addiction to anything. For example, drug-addled actor Robert Downey, Jr. was introduced to MJ at age eight.
11) There is no smoke that is harmless to breathe.
12) Recreational drug use increases the cost of healthcare for all who pay insurance premiums: X-Generation's Medicare recipients may "break the bank".
13) I vote for no methadone clinic anywhere near me—and Laconia is too close.

Heck, Montreal is too close.

Clear as a bell...thank you APS!!
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Old 02-18-2009, 10:23 AM   #80
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Default police or security gaurd

the owners of the clinic say it would cost too much for a police detail but would rather have a security gaurd. for the latest check out www.laconiadailysun.com
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Old 02-18-2009, 11:14 AM   #81
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the owners of the clinic say it would cost too much for a police detail but would rather have a security gaurd. for the latest check out www.laconiadailysun.com
I just read the article,
TOO BAD IT WILL COST TOO MUCH FOR YOU TO DO SO AND CREATE A STIGMA FOR THE PEOPLE THAT WOULD WANT TO GO AND A BARRIER FOR THOSE THAT WANT TO GO. THEY SHOULD BE IDENTIDIED AND KNOWN BY THE POLICY TO BEGIN WITH!

My View: you want to get treatment they it does not matter that the police is there, the only people that would care are those that are not there for it to be an actual treatment, jsut as stated in the article by the company spokesman -too expensive, he did not care that it is a good thing or a safe thing, but that it is too expensive, before the place is even there they are worried about bottom line first! This makes me sick!

SAUNDERS BETTER NOT BACK DOWN FROM THIS, now is the chance for Laconia citizens to contact her and tell her either not to backdown or ask her to reverse her decision, there is a window of opportunity here people!
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Old 02-18-2009, 12:52 PM   #82
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the owners of the clinic say it would cost too much for a police detail but would rather have a security gaurd. for the latest check out www.laconiadailysun.com
Gotta love that editing staff - he's the development of director?
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Old 02-18-2009, 01:41 PM   #83
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Default LDS news?

I know huh,,,they could screw up a free beer at that paper makes you wonder if they really get the facts straight
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