West Alton Marina Manager finally indicted

[TheTimeTraveler]

Former West Alton marina Manager John Murray III has been indicted on Federal charges of child pornography (12 counts) and sex trafficking (4 counts) from incidents dating back to 2015.

Long overdue!

[TiltonBB]

Full story on WMUR

https://www.wmur.com/article/west-al...arges/41793972

[lagoon]

I hope he never sees the light of day again. I dealt with him and his "partner" who also is indited. They both are the worst kind of people and need to be confined.

The saga of the lawsuits will be long and painful for all involved but the marina will also change hands to the victims I believe.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by lagoon

I hope he never sees the light of day again. I dealt with him and his "partner" who also is indited. They both are the worst kind of people and need to be confined.

The saga of the lawsuits will be long and painful for all involved but the marina will also change hands to the victims I believe.

Couldn’t agree more except with the “confined part…. If found guilty they should bring back public stoning!

Dan

[Mr. V]

Originally Posted by lagoon

The saga of the lawsuits will be long and painful for all involved but the marina will also change hands to the victims I believe.

I suspect that instead of the victims actually winding up owning WAM it will be sold to a third party and net sale proceeds will be distributed to the victims.

[WinterHarborGuy]

https://www.wmur.com/article/hearing...shire/42182625

Let’s hope he can’t harm anyone in his remaining life span.

[TiltonBB]

A 25 year sentence for a 56 year old should take care of the problem for a long time!

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...e6b7ee36c.html

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

A 25 year sentence for a 56 year old should take care of the problem for a long time!

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...e6b7ee36c.html

Unfortunately, a 25 year sentence means he will be out in 12 1/2 years...He should of got life!

Dan

[Loventhelake]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

Unfortunately, a 25 year sentence means he will be out in 12 1/2 years...He should of got life!

Dan

He has kidney cancer, he’ll be dead in less than 10…

[codeman671]

This was for the federal charges. He still faces State charges as well as 8 civil suits according to WMUR.

Hopefully Fortier gets similar.

I am sure prison won't be kind to them. These type of offenders aren't looked upon positively by fellow inmates.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

Unfortunately, a 25 year sentence means he will be out in 12 1/2 years...He should of got life!

Dan

Hopefully "Judge Bubba" will hand down a "stiffer" sentence...

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

Hopefully "Judge Bubba" will hand down a "stiffer" sentence...

Thinking the other inmates will get "behind" him....

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by codeman671

Thinking the other inmates will get "behind" him....

At least nobody will claim he is getting a “bum” rap!

[TiltonBB]

Murray was also indicted on three counts of aggravated felonious assault and one count of sexual assault involving a victim aged 13 to 15. Those charges will be adjudicated at the state level.

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...6066b107f.html

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

Murray was also indicted on three counts of aggravated felonious assault and one count of sexual assault involving a victim aged 13 to 15. Those charges will be adjudicated at the state level.

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...6066b107f.html

Jack Shack? What the hell? The whole family should go down in flames for this. You can’t tell me that the sisters didn’t know of this. Put a for sale sign on it and lock then all up. I hope they lose the place to civil suits. Absolutely disturbing…

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by codeman671

Jack Shack? What the hell? The whole family should go down in flames for this. You can’t tell me that the sisters didn’t know of this. Put a for sale sign on it and lock then all up. I hope they lose the place to civil suits. Absolutely disturbing…

Couldn't agree more!!

Dan

[Mr. V]

How has all of this negative publicity affected WAM?

It appears they're in the midst of an expansion.

[TiltonBB]

Fortier’s attorneys say the defense needs additional time to examine certain documents related to the case.

A final pretrial hearing in Murray’s case has been scheduled for April 28, with jury selection set to begin on May 15.

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...10a1586b6.html

[Loventhelake]

Originally Posted by Mr. V

How has all of this negative publicity affected WAM?

It appears they're in the midst of an expansion.

It hasn’t, new 800’ of dock just installed with a current waiting list.
Also more dredging this summer for additional dock installation.

[CaptT820]

People can make their own choices related to their knowledge of this entire situation. They will not be getting any of our money to pay for lawyer's fees. We'll let the legal system figure this out, and then decide if we want to have a slip at their facility.

[Cobalt 12]

Originally Posted by CaptT820

People can make their own choices related to their knowledge of this entire situation. They will not be getting any of our money to pay for lawyer's fees. We'll let the legal system figure this out, and then decide if we want to have a slip at their facility.

No Problem. Your Loss! When we get done with the new facility it will be the envy of the Lake. I believe this is going to be just the start. 3 Years when the total project is done. All I can say now is " WOW ". Please have an incredible summer this season.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Cobalt 12

No Problem. Your Loss! When we get done with the new facility it will be the envy of the Lake. I believe this is going to be just the start. 3 Years when the total project is done. All I can say now is " WOW ". Please have an incredible summer this season.

Did you really just throw shade at a guy who said he didn't want to give money to a child molester?

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by Cobalt 12

No Problem. Your Loss! When we get done with the new facility it will be the envy of the Lake. I believe this is going to be just the start. 3 Years when the total project is done. All I can say now is " WOW ". Please have an incredible summer this season.

"We?" Do you have an ownership interest in the marina?

Several potential buyers have looked at it as an investment but there is $8.5 million in debt on the property.

The second problem, after that debt, is the liens on the property from the victims who have suits against the offenders.

It would be difficult for anyone to purchase the property without knowing how it will all settle out and that will take time. What a mess!

[Mr. V]

Is the ownership of WAM corportate, partnership, or sole proprietors?

[upthesaukee]

Originally Posted by Mr. V

Is the ownership of WAM corportate, partnership, or sole proprietors?

West Alton Marina LLC.

https://quickstart.sos.nh.gov/online...usinessID=4731

Dave

[John Mercier]

Customers won't be the problem.
Most businesses are experiencing strong customer demand in the area.
The issue will be employees.

[Mr. V]

As an LLC WAM stands firmly in the cross hairs viz. compensation of victims.

See: https://www.legalzoom.com/articles/p...llc-protection

I wonder how it will shake out?

Certainly the perpetrators interest in WAM will be liquidated and used to pay for any damages / restitution oredered.

How exactly might this happen, given there are other members of the LLC?

Stay tuned...

[tis]

Originally Posted by upthesaukee

West Alton Marina LLC.

https://quickstart.sos.nh.gov/online...usinessID=4731

Dave

So if it's an LLC won't it be hard to sue the company?

[lagoon]

Originally Posted by Cobalt 12

No Problem. Your Loss! When we get done with the new facility it will be the envy of the Lake. I believe this is going to be just the start. 3 Years when the total project is done. All I can say now is " WOW ". Please have an incredible summer this season.

That is a strange and uncomfortable response. Perhaps you are a family member to the owners but I think it is safe to say your response was compassionately zero.

What is clear is that the victims of the abuse will have an ownership interest in the business as they should. Brian and his wife are sick folks who will be kept up late in prison at night for social activities.

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by tis

So if it's an LLC won't it be hard to sue the company?

If an LLC member personally guarantees a business's loans or obligations, he or she will be held liable for any default. An LLC won't protect a member who commits a wrongful act or is negligent in a way that results in harm to another person, such as fraud or assault. In a lawsuit you usually name anyone who may have any liability at the beginning and then it gets sorted out by the court and the lawyers as the case proceeds.

In my experience with commercial loans the bank almost always has you sign personally for any credit extended. One would think that was the case with the $8.5 million in loans.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

If an LLC member personally guarantees a business's loans or obligations, he or she will be held liable for any default. An LLC won't protect a member who commits a wrongful act or is negligent in a way that results in harm to another person, such as fraud or assault. In a lawsuit you usually name anyone who may have any liability at the beginning and then it gets sorted out by the court and the lawyers as the case proceeds.

In my experience with commercial loans the bank almost always has you sign personally for any credit extended. One would think that was the case with the $8.5 million in loans.

Plus, if the LLC owns the marina, and the LLC is sued successfully, the marina is gone

[tis]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

If an LLC member personally guarantees a business's loans or obligations, he or she will be held liable for any default. An LLC won't protect a member who commits a wrongful act or is negligent in a way that results in harm to another person, such as fraud or assault. In a lawsuit you usually name anyone who may have any liability at the beginning and then it gets sorted out by the court and the lawyers as the case proceeds.

In my experience with commercial loans the bank almost always has you sign personally for any credit extended. One would think that was the case with the $8.5 million in loans.

Yes i agree they most likely signed a personal guarantee, and would be responsible for any loans or obligations, but if they did, it makes you wonder why they even ran the business as an LLC. But I can't imagine a bank loaning that kind of money without having a personal guarantee. That's what I'm wondering since it was allegedly a wrongful act, could the LLC and therefore the real estate, be taken and sold to pay accusers. I guess as you said, it will get sorted out.

[LikeLakes]

The assets will definitely be in play assuming victims win settlements on this.

As to why it's an LLC, that's the appropriate entity, hard to find a reason to have any other sort of entity for a private company these days.

[LikeLakes]

Personally speaking, and just to be clear I'm not a client of WAM ... I don't hold it against anyone for either keeping their slip there or someone new taking a space. Say someone has had a slip for years there, enjoyed it with their family, the location and services work well for them. I don't feel it's anyone's obligation to leave. The idea of "don't give any money to the family" is valid if you feel that way, but I don't feel that anyone should be made to feel bad for staying.

[John Mercier]

Originally Posted by LikeLakes

The assets will definitely be in play assuming victims win settlements on this.

As to why it's an LLC, that's the appropriate entity, hard to find a reason to have any other sort of entity for a private company these days.

Three of the civil cases already entered asset agreement last October. Those cases are now complete.

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...9ce12bcc3.html

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by tis

Yes i agree they most likely signed a personal guarantee, and would be responsible for any loans or obligations, but if they did, it makes you wonder why they even ran the business as an LLC. But I can't imagine a bank loaning that kind of money without having a personal guarantee. That's what I'm wondering since it was allegedly a wrongful act, could the LLC and therefore the real estate, be taken and sold to pay accusers. I guess as you said, it will get sorted out.

Because if something happened at the marina like someone fell down and got hurt, or they dropped a boat and damaged it, the liability would be limited to the marina and their insurance company, and not them personally. However when coupled with the alleged crimes that changes things.

Obviously, you can sue anyone, but getting a successful outcome in court may be a different thing. (OJ told me that)

[LikeLakes]

Originally Posted by John Mercier

Three of the civil cases already entered asset agreement last October. Those cases are now complete.

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...9ce12bcc3.html

Wait, the civil suits aren't settled, are they? Doesn't this simply say the attachment of assets is approved, meaning the marina can't sell or convey assets without notice to the plaintiffs?

[John Mercier]

The attachments were filed with the original suits.
These are the settled asset agreements.

"The agreement states the marina will not sell, transfer or allow another individual or organization to make a claim on any real estate or other property without giving the plaintiffs at least 45 days notice of such action to give the defendants time to ask the court to impose an attachment. In return, the three plaintiffs removed motions for attachments filed earlier this year."

The lawsuits remain. But the marina can remain doing business... and speculation to an outside buyer is moot.

An attachment could stop the marina from having the necessary cashflow to operate... doing any maintenance or upgrade.

The problem the marina will have is hiring employees.
Low cost seasonal employees are at a premium - very hard to find.

[Descant]

If this were a trailer park, I believe the tenants can get together and have a purchase priority. Can that law be extended to the marina tenants? I see some similarities.

On the $8.5 million debt--Has that been expended or is it held by the bank(s) as available for expansion projects?

If there are mechanical /maintenance problems, what plumber or electrician will want to work there to fix it unless there is sufficient working capital to pay in advance? Could that force a shutdown?

This is going to be a windfall for attorneys and accounting firms, never mind the criminal lawyers.

[Cobaltdeadhead]

Pretty certain that unless it is a condo type situation like MT View where the slips are owned, that the rights of renters at a marina are very limited. Tenants at will

[LikeLakes]

I think Cobalt is right. Nothing at all like a trailer park that transitions to a ROC (resident owned community).

It is in the best interests of the people who have attached the marina for it to continue to operate, so I would be very surprised if all maintenance contractors were not paid as promised. I don't think this is a bankruptcy yet so they don't get bankruptcy protection though. I guess if it was me I'd see if there is any court ordered protection for contractors, and if not would only do work paid in advance.

[LIforrelaxin]

This is a most unfortunately situation.

The bottom line however is that the Marina will live on, even once the dust settles.... Now could it go from being privately owned to something else? Possibly dependent on how the court cases go, the family may have to sell at least part of the entity to investors to raise capitol, or they could elect to sell the entire thing.

However this is America, Innocent until proven guilty...... so the family is doing what they must which is continuing to move forward with the expansion of their business.....Has this situation hurt the business, I am sure it has....But at the end of the day, they have a facility on a lake that has a shortage of slips as it is.... They aren't going to be my first choice for gas or service, but if they are the only option open to me, I would prefer to be boating.......

[Mr. V]

It's a family LLC, I assume the perp owns a proportionate number of shares in the LLC.

I believe the best result would be to have his shares sold to the highest bidder, and have the proceeds distributed to the claimants without touching the shares of other family members: why should they suffer because of their sibling's actions?

Are they really their brother's keeper?

They probably cannot buy him out but perhaps with a loan from a bank they could, otherwise an outside can weasel their way in.

[Major]

Originally Posted by Mr. V

It's a family LLC, I assume the perp owns a proportionate number of shares in the LLC.

I believe the best result would be to have his shares sold to the highest bidder, and have the proceeds distributed to the claimants without touching the shares of other family members: why should they suffer because of their sibling's actions?

Are they really their brother's keeper?

They probably cannot buy him out but perhaps with a loan from a bank they could, otherwise an outside can weasel their way in.

Although magnanimous, this is not how corporations work. Unfortunately, the misdeeds of one owner are the responsibilities of the other owners. As a small business owner I know this all too well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jeffk]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

This is a most unfortunately situation.

The bottom line however is that the Marina will live on, even once the dust settles.... Now could it go from being privately owned to something else? Possibly dependent on how the court cases go, the family may have to sell at least part of the entity to investors to raise capitol, or they could elect to sell the entire thing.
...
But at the end of the day, they have a facility on a lake that has a shortage of slips as it is.... They aren't going to be my first choice for gas or service, but if they are the only option open to me, I would prefer to be boating.......

This seems to me to be a reasonable assessment.

Other have been saying the Marina could be "gone" but it seems to me that if there is a judgement against the assets of the marina, the LLC could finance or sell to get the funds. If outright sold, it is possible that the new owner could decide to close the marina and build something more valuable, like condos with water access. I have NO IDEA of what is feasible or would be most profitable but one option for a new owner would be to continue to operate the marina and put a new management team in place.

We have no idea what responsibility and what penalty will be assessed to the LLC. The legal process, by calling out the assets of the LLC, has stated that those assets MAY BE encumbered and therefore the LLC needs to keep the victims informed of their status. That's a reasonable and common thing to do.

[Poor Richard]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

The bottom line however is that the Marina will live on, even once the dust settles.... Now could it go from being privately owned to something else? Possibly dependent on how the court cases go, the family may have to sell at least part of the entity to investors to raise capitol, or they could elect to sell the entire thing.

I've been wondering how far away a bankruptcy filing is in all this.

[root1]

It seems that these kind of situations result in the entirety of the defendant's assets being liquidated to pay for legal fees ..... the trials will go on until there is no more money to pay the lawyers & victims.

[Mr. V]

Originally Posted by Major

Although magnanimous, this is not how corporations work. Unfortunately, the misdeeds of one owner are the responsibilities of the other owners. As a small business owner I know this all too well.

Has the corporation been charged with a crime or sued yet?

MY analysis assumed not.

[John Mercier]

I believe the suits named the LLC... because of the asset agreements.
The LLC was their employer, and thus had some duty of care for the work environment.

[TiltonBB]

Juror misconduct: Stand by for a new trial.

From the Laconia Sun:

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...59da08dc8.html

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

Juror misconduct: Stand by for a new trial.

From the Laconia Sun:

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...59da08dc8.html

Unbelievable! If you have money you can get away with anything! This POS should rot in jail!

Dan