Registration question?

[Misty Blue]

Someone threw me a curve ball today.

What are the registration rules for a boat that is "documented" in Massachusetts?

Misty Blue

[Kamper]

I believe they need to be registered here too if they are in NH waters for more than 90 consecutive days. I've never heard of anyone being cited for it.

Other states have similar laws with different time periods.

"Documented" is the term that is used when a boat has its paperwork filed with a national government. "Registered" is normally the common term for sate/local paperwork. I wouldn't nit-pick over these terms, unless you are buying/selling it won't make any practical difference for most people.

Even if a boat is Documented it is still subject to the rules of its home port and will need to be Registered as well but won't be required to show the 'bow numbers.'


That's almost all I think I know about that.

----

See below for NHMP response. It's 90 days, not 30 days.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by Misty Blue

Someone threw me a curve ball today.

What are the registration rules for a boat that is "documented" in Massachusetts?

Misty Blue

Dave, you were stymied on a question about boats?!!

[lakershaker]

Boats that are documented are as Kamper said done through the Coast Guard. Requirements are, among other things, that 1) the boat be registered in a state (bow #'s are not required to be displayed, but the sticker is), 2) Boat has a name, and 3) home port is listed on the stern with a name.

Boats can not be registered in more than one state at a time. So, if you are going to have your boat in NH, even if you live in MA or another state, you are required to have it registered here. However, this is very difficult to enforce because the Marine Patrol would have to be able to prove that your boat was actually on the water for the whole time.

Generally, boats on the lake are not documented, but certainly can be if the owner wants to go through the hassel. Ususally it is larger boats, and it may be an insurance requirement.

[Little Bear]

A boat is documented with the US Coast Guard. A home port must be stated on the documentation forms (and on the stern along with the home port - in minimum 4" letters & numbers), but that's the only reference to a State. If the home port is in Mass, and the boat is being primarily used in NH, then NH requires it to be registered with the state. However, in this case, no bow numbers are required on the hull - only the registration sticker must be placed on the hull in its usual spot on both sides of the bow.

I wonder how many times this boat would get stopped for no bow numbers though? Are the MP even aware of this rule? (I own a documented boat, so that's how I know).

[Knomad]

You will need to have your vessel registered in NH even if you have your vessel documented.

Larger recreational vessels owned by U.S. citizens may (at the option of the owner) be documented by the U.S. Coast Guard. Documented vessels also must obtain a New Hampshire registration and carry the Certificate of Registration on board. However, these vessels are not required to display their registration number, but they must display the validation decals within two feet of the extreme forward part of the bow. These vessels also must have the vessel name and hailing port clearly visible on both sides of the hull or on the transom.

[tis]

Originally Posted by Little Bear

A boat is documented with the US Coast Guard. A home port must be stated on the documentation forms (and on the stern along with the home port - in minimum 4" letters & numbers), but that's the only reference to a State. If the home port is in Mass, and the boat is being primarily used in NH, then NH requires it to be registered with the state. However, in this case, no bow numbers are required on the hull - only the registration sticker must be placed on the hull in its usual spot on both sides of the bow.

I wonder how many times this boat would get stopped for no bow numbers though? Are the MP even aware of this rule? (I own a documented boat, so that's how I know).

We wondered that too and that is exactly why we put bow numbers on the big boat even though we didn't need to.

[lakershaker]

Originally Posted by tis

We wondered that too and that is exactly why we put bow numbers on the big boat even though we didn't need to.

Yes, NHMP is aware of the rules for documented boats. Don't forget, in addition to patrolling Winnipesaukee, they also patrol coastal waters.

[Descant]

I've had two boats that were documented by the previous owner. The first one, the previous owner never bothered to put the name or port on the transom, and he did not attach the registration board inside the hull. At that time I was told by the USCG that the port had to be either their home HQ (first district, "Boston") or my home town. It had nothing to do with where the boat was used. There was no expense to transferring the documentation from NH to NH. Renewing was free every year but eventually I let it lapse since I had bow numbers already in place anyway.
That was around 1991.

More recently, I bought a boat that was documented in MA. Because MA is a title state, the title company wanted $500 to transfer the documentation to me. NH is not a title state, so I kept my $500 and bought bow numbers.

There is a size restriction. Boats under five (adjective I can't recall) tons cannot be documented. That's usually 26-27 feet, but varies with the type of boat. Instructions and forms are at www.uscg.mil/nvdc/

[Little Bear]

Originally Posted by lakershaker

Yes, NHMP is aware of the rules for documented boats. Don't forget, in addition to patrolling Winnipesaukee, they also patrol coastal waters.

I'm not convinced they do, just because they patrol coastal waters.

[Marine Patrol]

Marine Patrol is very aware of the requirements for Documented vessels. Below are the applicable laws and rules for display of the decal. You will see that it is easir for the statutes to list the exceptions to vessel registration than to list all those that are required to register. Documented vessels are not exempt.

Safe Boating!!



270-E:4 Exemptions From Registration. – The following vessels shall be exempt from registration in this state:
I. Sailboats under 12 feet in length, rowboats and canoes powered by sail, oars, paddles, or other human power. Any vessel which has an inboard or outboard motor shall not be exempt from registration except as provided in paragraph II.
II. Vessels registered in another state or country temporarily using the waters of this state for not more than 30 consecutive days.
III. Vessels owned or operated by the United States government.

270-E:9 Exemptions From Displaying Numbers. –
I. A vessel shall not be required to display a number under this chapter if it is:
(a) Covered by a certificate of numbers in full force and effect which has been issued to it pursuant to federal law or a federally approved numbering system of another state.
(b) A foreign vessel temporarily using waters subject to United States jurisdiction.
(c) A vessel owned, or demise chartered, and operated by the United States government, except a recreational-type public vessel; or a vessel whose owner is a state or subdivision thereof, which is used primarily for governmental purposes, and which is clearly identifiable as such.
(d) A vessel's lifeboat.
(e) A vessel which is documented by the United States Coast Guard or its federal agency successor. (f) A vessel which is being operated under a temporary certificate.
(g) A nondocumented vessel used exclusively for racing events.
(h) A sailboat under 20 feet in length, or any vessel that is only powered by oars or paddles. Any vessel which has an inboard or outboard motor shall not be exempt from displaying a number except as otherwise provided in this section.
II. A vessel which is exempt from displaying a number but which is otherwise required to be registered in this state shall display a decal issued by the state.


Saf-C 2304.02 Display of Decal.



(a) Each decal issued by the department shall:



(1) Be displayed within 6 inches to the right of the vessel number;



(2) Be clearly visible on each side of the vessel and within 2 feet of the stem, if the vessel

is exempt from displaying a vessel number pursuant to RSA 270-E:9, II;


(3) Be displayed within 6 inches to the right of the vessel number or clearly visible on the port and starboard facing portion of the windshield, if an antique or classic vessel.

[tis]

I never doubted that MP was aware of the law. We just decided it would be better to have the number..just in case.

Kind of like the "NO WAKE" issue. People can't agree on here what "NO WAKE" means.

MP, while you are here could you clarify that for us? Some here think that you can make a wake as long as you are going headway speed. Others think a wake is a wake is a wake and if you are in a no wake zone, you should not make a wake.

[webmaster]

Originally Posted by tis

I never doubted that MP was aware of the law. We just decided it would be better to have the number..just in case.

Kind of like the "NO WAKE" issue. People can't agree on here what "NO WAKE" means.

MP, while you are here could you clarify that for us? Some here think that you can make a wake as long as you are going headway speed. Others think a wake is a wake is a wake and if you are in a no wake zone, you should not make a wake.

If you want to change the subject please start a new thread!

[tis]

Sorry, I didn't think about that. I don't think we need to rehash the no wake issue so will not start a new thread.

[Misty Blue]

I was aware of the NH rules (although placing the decal 2' from the stem did catch me by surprise) and it seems that Mass. rules are the same.

Thanks!

Misty Blue

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Descant

More recently, I bought a boat that was documented in MA. Because MA is a title state, the title company wanted $500 to transfer the documentation to me. NH is not a title state, so I kept my $500 and bought bow numbers.

I did it myself. It cost me all of $92 as the CG fees (exchange of documentation and bill of sale fee) from the Coast Guard. I changed the name/port at the same time as changing the ownership.

The CG NVDC fees are spelled out here:
http://www.uscg.mil/nvdc/instr/fee%20sch.pdf

It's very easy, just fill out the paperwork and mail it in.

Here is a link showing what to do:
http://www.uscg.mil/nvdc/nvdcfaq.asp#24

I did it myself for chain of title peace of mind issues. Since NH isn't a title state, and my boat was previously Documented as being owned by someone else, I wanted to be sure that the chain of documentation showed that I was now the owner.

Even though everyone at the dealership told me it was very expensive to change/update the documentation, and they said they never knew anyone that did it themselves, as it was very complicated (their words), I found the process easy, and the people at the CG NVDC were very helpful and friendly on the phone.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Little Bear

I wonder how many times this boat would get stopped for no bow numbers though? Are the MP even aware of this rule? (I own a documented boat, so that's how I know).

I've heard this before, but I don't believe it. Remember, even if documented, you still must have your NH registration stickers in place.

So if the MP see's a boat with no registration numbers on the bow, but they do have current NH registration stickers, then they know the boat is documented.

If they want to be sure or to check that your federal documentation is still valid (it has to be renewed every year, and starting this year, they are charging to renew it), then they can board you to check for your documentation papers on board as well as having your documentation number in place.

[Descant]

If they can see your tax sticker and your name and home port on the transom, wouldn't they need some probable cause to board? Boarding, I think, is a lot more serious than drifting alongside and issuing a summons for not having enough PFD's on board. (If I were MP, I wouldn't board until I had cause and back up. Pretty embarrassing to get bumped overboard and have the bad guy drive off while I swim around trying to reach my patrol boat. Not exactly like "Would you open the trunk, sir?" And since we're talking documented vessel on a lake, we're talking 5 tons, 26+ feet. Not a boat that is quickly trailered or hidden.

[fatlazyless]

.... and for sailboats less than 12' long, which are exempt from needing a NH registration sticker as long as they have no motor, I assume the rudder is not included when measuring the length of the hull ....... correct?

By not including the rudder as part of the hull, I wonder how much money is not collected each year ...... hmmmmm ...... a rudder on a small sailboat probably extends for three feet...and each small sailboat costs about $30 to register .... and the new MP HQ in Gilford is costing something like 8-million dollars.

In about 2011, the legislature thought they were doing good when the car reg fee was cut by about 30-dollars, and now the Meredith Neck Rd, which is a state owned road, is falling apart.

So's ....just shows to go.....by including the rudder as an inherent part of the here-to-fore 11'10" hull ..... funding the new MP-HQ for 8-mil should be easy-peasy ..... anchors away!

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Descant

If they can see your tax sticker and your name and home port on the transom, wouldn't they need some probable cause to board? Boarding, I think, is a lot more serious than drifting alongside and issuing a summons for not having enough PFD's on board. (If I were MP, I wouldn't board until I had cause and back up. Pretty embarrassing to get bumped overboard and have the bad guy drive off while I swim around trying to reach my patrol boat. Not exactly like "Would you open the trunk, sir?" And since we're talking documented vessel on a lake, we're talking 5 tons, 26+ feet. Not a boat that is quickly trailered or hidden.

I didn't think we were discussing whether the MP had cause to stop you in this thread.

I was only addressing the notion that people seem to think that without bow numbers the MP will stop you because they might believe that you are operating an unregistered boat. I give them a LOT more credit than that, they are very professional people that know their job.

As I mentioned, having your valid state registration decal on the bow lets them know that your registration is current. The lack of bow numbers on a documented boat doesn't attract any more or less attention than one with bow numbers IMHO (well it might attract a quick glance to check for the current registration decal).

Now if you drive around without a (or an expired) state registration sticker, yes, they can and should stop you, even if you have a documented boat.