GPS is not Radar

Many previous postings on GPS use in the fog.
Last fall there was a weekend where the fog was as thick as pea soup. I was idling to pick up people at a near by dock and a Bass Boat passed me very quickly just a few hundred feet away, I'm sure he was unaware that I was even there.
So please, at night and on foggy days, remember, a GPS only shows your location and not current traffic or floating objects in front of you.
Get radar if you want to glue your eyes to a video screen while underway.

GPS is also not infallible. A few times we had to restart ours because it showed us in a different place than we actually were.

Just Curious about something, if the fog was as thick as pea soup, and the other boat didn't see you, how in the heck did you see the other boat good enough to know it was a bass boat? It sounds to me you are stereo typing people and assuming a few things also! You know what they say about ASSUME.

Bass Boat drivers are all criminally insane and everyone knows that. They are mean spirited, gas burning, fish hooking, beer drinking, big bellied back woodsmen not worthy of a date with the town tramp. But I digress...lighten up. Replace the word 'bass boat' with 'mail boat.' have a nice day!

I agree. Even though I have a GPS, there still is no substitue for a chart and knowing how to use it.

I'm with the perfessor on this one.

Bass boats are one of the first boats out on foggy weekend mornings. Their exhaust has a distinctive sound -- and they move pretty quickly. Sometimes they can be spotted passing from one fog bank to another.

It's a sound as distinctive on a quiet spring foggy morning as a snowmobile exhaust is, when breaking the quiet of a wintry scene from a mile away.

Many early mornings, probably a half-dozen bass boats, traveling in essentially the same direction, will rocket by my dock in pea-soup fog.

You don't need to see a bass boat to detect it.

OBVIOUSLY, you don't have clue. I would love to see the stats on which boats are the one's who have all the accidents, and which boats are the one's that don't know the rules of the road, that don't have common sense when it comes to boating, that doesn't give the right of way, or the boats who do all the drinking on the lake.. If your honest with yourself, you will admit its not the bass boats.

Yes, I do fish, and I can speak first hand about it. YES they do go fast, but they are the boaters who have the most common sense on the lake. And common sense is something that is missing on Winnie for a long time now! And it get worse every year. go sit by Eagle Island and watch, or glendale, or the grave yard. See which boats are the culprits. Thanks for letting me vent, but we all know 99% of the problem is the bigger boats that get bigger and faster on the lake every year.

"Bass boats are one of the first boats out on foggy weekend mornings. Their exhaust has a distinctive sound -- and they move pretty quickly. Sometimes they can be spotted passing from one fog bank to another. "

I'm curious re: the distinctive sound. Don't bass boats use the same outboard engines used by other boats ? I have to say I'm not up on bass boat specific outboards. Guess there's more of a market for these than I'd have guessed.

ps - Is this what you mean ... http://www.texs.com/magazine/tsg_13.htm

pps - you don't need to hear BS to detect it ...

1) Your point about a faster, bigger, 100 MPH, turbine-powered bass boat would best be directed to "Fishermen's Friend", who wrote:

"Thanks for letting me vent, but we all know 99% of the problem is the bigger boats that get bigger and faster on the lake every year."

2) One opinion expressed previously (GPS is not radar), suggested that bass boaters are reckless in fog.

3) Another countered that bass boaters are wreckless.

As long as bass boats travel early in the morning -- and in the same general direction -- bass boats will have a better collision record than, say, offshore racers, which travel day and night and all over and every whichway. (Like "Ouch!!" did)

As to bass boats, I don't know how many are "other" powered, but the vast majority seen off my Winnipesaukee dock are equipped with powerful outboards -- some white, some black. Lots of big, black ones (up to 300HP).

Likewise, those seen off my Florida dock are big and black (but run smaller, 150HP or greater).

Three hundred and sixty-five (365) days a year of watching (and hearing) bass boats...permits expertise denied others.

Re:"I'm curious re: the distinctive sound. Don't bass boats use the same outboard engines used by other boats ?"

Once you have heard a few thousand boats go by, you will understand the sound of a Bass boat. Its not so much the engine as it is the sound to speed ratio. A high-end bass boat is a well engineered craft that is lousy getting out of the hole, and at speed, has very little hull in the water so goes very fast per RPM. In fog, you can easily identify the sound of a bass boat trying to get up to planing speed, then falling back to plow configuration when the fog gets thick. Lots of noise and not much motion. Love em or hate em - but you can be pretty sure of it when you hear one. -lg

I found your response to be quite jumbled and confusing! As for the size of the engines on bass boats, that ANYONE see on Winnie, range from 150HP to 225HP, I would also say that the LARGE majority of those are the 150hp, and has far as your post bass boats DO NOT, let me repeat that so you understand totally DO NOT go 150mph(lol), that picture you saw was a 1 of a kind boat. I'm wondering if you have a large boat and knew exactly what I was referring to about Eagle Island, Glendale, and the Grave yard, you didn't jump all over that part of the post, so maybe you are one of those? Just curious?? Have a wonderful day, nice chatting with you, that will be the last I have to say on this subject!

I wasn't bashing the Bass boating world, you're right, I assumed that it was a bass boat, I was in the vicinity of Ames Farm that morning and like most weekends, there was a tournament and most fisherman are in a hurry to get to their spot.
I apologize if this was taken out of context.
Like all types of recreational activities, there are always a few that ruin it for others.

I just wanted to comment on the GPS thing, because you (all boaters) having one doesn't mean you can see what's ahead of you in low visibility. Use common sense, remember we don't have brakes, airbags or seat belts.

I am a bass boater and used to run tournaments all over winni. There are a few bass boaters who could use a lesson in manners or proper etiquette for sure. However, most of these guys have put a huge investment into their rigs and take better care of them than their cars or homes. This is why insurance companies charge so little for insurance if you belong to a club. The insurance companies know the bass boaters are low risk because they act responsibly. They do start the tournaments early, which is where most of the bad rap comes from.

I personally, have rescued several boaters, (the Eagle a few years ago in a "T" storm)and find the most dangerous people are those folks who buy their first boat an don't bother learning the boating rules. Like one reader said, just hang out by the graveyard for an hour and you won't believe what you'll see, and it's not bass boaters.

Last year I went with my friend in his procraft to watch the fireworks in Wolfeboro. At the end of the display approximately 500 boats made a "B" line out of the bay. I have never been so scared in my life. Huge boats blasting through the crowd at 50-60-70 miles per hour. I will never go there again.

You may be astonished to learn that there are more accidents, injuries, and deaths in boats under 16' (specifically referred to as "open motor boats") than in another other category. You may find that bass boats, john-boats, and the like fit that category.

I posted the links to the stats in a previous post some time ago... and here it is again. Interpret them as you will.




2002 Accident Stats

You're absolutley wrong Coastal Laker. MOST bass boats are OVER 16' in length. The average fiberglass bass boat these days is 18-19' with a 150-200hp motor. I fish in a club of 35-40 boats and there are only 3 that are 16' or less and these are aluminum boats with 50-90hp motors, capable of reaching maybe 40mph MAX. Maybe you should get your facts straight before pointing your finger. The accidents for boats under 16' that you speak of are mostly from CANOE'S, not bass boats.

Since this thread began with the mention of fog, I'll illustrate how bass tournament fisherman deal with this. My club had a tournament on Winni last fall where the fog was incredibly thick. We delayed the start for two hours, and the fog still hadn't lifted. Our tournament director called a meeting and everyone agreed to not get up on plane until 11am(electric motors only), even if the fog lifted before then. We also restricted everyone to the Lee's Mills section of the lake and had a boat positioned at Black point to make sure that nobody broke the rules. The tournament went off without a hitch, and everyone obeyed the rules. We bass fisherman are taking a lot of heat because of a couple of bad apples. I'm sick and tired of hearing it, and refuse to let people like Coastal Laker skew the facts to support their point of view.

Difficult as it may seem, you can tell engine sounds apart -- and not just outboards vs inboards.

I'm reading from my 1955-vintage album cover "Sports Cars in Hi-Fi" :

"The Triumph TR-3, the Austin Healey, the Ferrari Mondial and Monza are all four-cylinder engines in the 2- or 3- litre category with overhead valve gear. Yet it doesn't take a very experienced ear to differentiate between them. Among the Jags, you can even distinguish between the model 'D' and the model 'XK140'...the Deutsch-Bonnet sounds like somebody shuffling cards".

And:
"Listen to the valve surge of the Lotus Mark 11: 'whish-whoosh, whish-whoosh.'"
.

That's not all: You can visit www.historicaviation.com and buy the CD "Round Sounds -- Two volumes". Spend an hour listening the digital sounds of radial (round) engines from World War II -- catalog number A0004C -- $18.95.

"Distinguish between the Corsair F4U, the AT-6, and the Stearman biplane."
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In life, if you can't distinguish between a Harley and an eighteen wheeler by ear, there's Probably No Hope; otherwise, it's an eye-opener -- pardon the expression.

"Difficult as it may seem, you can tell engine sounds apart -- and not just outboards vs inboards."

My point wasn't that you can't tell engines apart by sound. My point was that by engine sound *alone*, I find it somewhat hard to believe you can tell a bass boat with, say a Mercury, OB from a Whaler (or some other low deadrise boat) with the same Mercury OB. Or analogously, an old VW Bettle has a pretty distinctive engine sound. Transplant that same engine and exhaust system to the back of a Meyer's Manx and now tell me you could differentiate between the 2 as one passed by the back of your house at 40 mph. Now if there's no road out back, just a bunch of sand dunes, you might guess it's the dune buggy but that's using more information than the distinctive engine sound. You might well opine that the OB powered boat you hear waaaay early in the AM on a rainy or foggy day is a bass boat because it would likely fit the conditions but this again is using more than engine note alone.

Certainly there are more accidents in boats 16' and under. There are more boats 16' and under.

Madrasahs, you are comparing apples and oranges. I don't believe there is a significant difference in sound from a 150 or 200 Mercury, Evinrude/Johnson or Yamaha out board at the same rpm whether the motor is on a bow rider, a bassboat or any other planning hull.

I believed I was expressing my opinion based on my interpretation of statistics (which by their very nature can be interpreted in many variations depending on your purpose). I provided the link so you all may review for yourselves and develop your own conclusions. There was no intent to draw anger from anyone.

Since I’m not objectionable to be questioned and corrected, I just went back and double checked the stats - and you're right, bass boats average a bit longer than I stated. They are still defined by the Coast Guard as open motorboats, which are among the most common involved in accidents - 41% of all accidents in 2002. There were 3,111 accidents involving boats (all types) from 16 - 26 ft in 2002 and only 2,877 with boats 16 ft and under. If you don’t like statistics, change their interpretation to meet your needs.

Did you know that GPS was originally developed for the US armed services, specifically the air force? Our government controls the access provided by satellite and can flip a switch and turn off civilian GPS capabilities around the world. They did this on 9/11. Can you imagine if you had no other navigation skills other than how to follow your GPS? You are wise to have backup and the skills to use it.

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I've looked over those boating stats once again and conclude that nothing meaningful to Winnipesaukee can be obtained from nationwide statistics. "Lakes" for example, are lumped in with ponds (like Florida's waist-deep ponds) and "dams".

Pennsylvania has no major lakes, but has hundreds of dams, which "eat" Pennsylvania's small boats for lunch. (Small boats being the most sensible boat for narrow waters).

Therefore, the national statistics that get displayed here for winnipesaukeeforum.com are skewed against small boats, which are over-represented in Pennsylvania due to the dearth of open freshwater lakes there. (One example).

In Florida, two days ago, a bass-boater launched himself off a Lake Okeechobee (FL) waterway, and spent two nights (50°) on the floor of his boat, unable to move. In any other state, this would have been a hypothermia-fatality.

While it's clear that "drinking-responsibly-while-boating" will kill, are the stats revised (or "cleaned up") from court cases like that Baja "offshore" collision from August 12, 2002? New Hampshire's reported fatal-boating drunks number below 2 -- most years. Something's w-R-o-N-g.

The deadliest time to boat is on clear, sunny days with calm waters. The safest time to boat is after midnight, in 8-10 foot waves. Go figure.

Or, if you are only able to boat on weekends, everybody must have a bigger boat to be safe.
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Response to LFOD.

I was a participant in the tournament you spoke of. I will agree that the fog delay was the safe thing to do under the circumstances. However, at 11 am it was an entirely different situation. It suddenly became a mad dash to get to our fishing spots with many boats coming through the markers towards black point on plane and within 30-40 feet of each other. I will admit that I allowed myself to get caught up in the excitement and was one of those boats. Next time I will use better judgement in similar situations. I believe bass boaters should set the standard when it comes to safety in order to promote a positive public image and hope that we police ourselves a little more effectively in similar situations.I know I learned a lesson that day and will be safer under similar circumstances.