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10-10-2019, 10:01 AM | #1 |
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finally got to enjoy my sea ray!
Hey guys, not sure if you remember me posting about my stalling issue with my 74 sea ray this summer after being a first time boat owner. The boat has a 2003 driveline in it...305 mercruiser mpi. After going to a local marine and spending 2500$+ for diag, FULL tune up i.e. plugs, cap and rotor, and coil. Then new fuel pump, then messing with lines etc and more diag....after asking the mechanic if he checked my fuel tank where the boat had been sitting for 2yrs, and he said he did, and looked inside with a camera as well...no problems there he said.....then he had decided that the boat was vapor locking. He even lent me his 6gal fuel tank to switch over to if the boat stalled while out in the lake. After 7 or more times of stalling and using his tank 3-4 times and the boat running perfect with his tank. With the theory of vapor locking, he ordered and installed a 'boost pump' which was another 900$ bill I didnt pay when i took it the last time in...i asked if i could use the boat 3-4 times before i paid the bill to make sure it was finally fixed....they said I could so I took it out and yes....it still stalled....so before I just gave up, I decided to replace the fuel tank myself. Ive never done one before but it looked simple enough...so i removed the tank and looked inside just to find it FULL OF CRAP! I ordered another larger tank and installed it....guess what? boat ran mint for the last 6 or 7 times i took it out...a novice and def not a mechanic...i fixed the boat myself and have not gone back to that marina. mind you i did bring the old tank back there once i pulled it out and the guy said..'wow, that stuff must have gotton loose the last few weeks!' I said politely ...."well, your camera must not have been working the day you put it in my tank" ....the guy gives me no apologies, no admitting that he wasted my money and summer not looking at what he should have seen from the first inspection he had on the boat when i spent over 1000$ to have it gone thew after i bought it. So one of the last words I said to him the day i showed him the tank full of crap is "you should take out this boost pump because I dont wana owe the marina a dollar...clearly the new tank i put in fixed it" he said, thats fine, we'll take it out when you bring it back for the winterization in the fall. I said "ok, see you in the fall". I have no intentions of bringing that boat back to that marina...I mean, if he had admitted to not diagnosing it correctly or at least saying to me that they would winterize it for free due to all the money i gave them to fix it and it never being fixed by them, I would bring it back...finding a new marina to winterize it and wrap it. all done... anyone think im out of line by not bringing it back even tho I told him I would??
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10-10-2019, 11:40 AM | #2 |
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nope, i wouldn't bring my boat back there either. there are plenty of good marinas and shops around to choose from. i brought mine to a local marina with an excellent reputation last year for winterization. this spring i could tell that they didn't change the gear oil in my kicker motor (extremely important). when i checked the fluid level this spring, a bunch of water came out. i'm lucky it didn't freeze and crack the lower unit. they also didn't change the gear oil or the fuel filter on the main engine either. not good.. so needless to say, they won't be doing it this year or ever again.
glad you got it running right though! that must be a big weight lifted off of your shoulders! |
10-10-2019, 12:57 PM | #3 |
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My guess is that that marina never wants to see your boat again and are perfectly happy to eat the cost of the unnecessary fuel pump. They also have no desire to remove it since it is of no real value to them and they'd have to provide the labor.
My advice it to learn to Winterize it yourself, it's not hard. I ALWAYS drain all the water out of the engine, cool fuel module (if applicable), coolant hoses, and exhaust manifolds, THEN replace the water with RV/Marine anti-freeze. If you skip the drain step, you run the risk of diluting the anti-freeze too much. If you skip the anti-freeze step, you run the risk of sediment in the block holding water and freezing. Last edited by Dave R; 10-10-2019 at 02:20 PM. |
10-10-2019, 12:59 PM | #4 | |
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10-10-2019, 02:24 PM | #5 |
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Welcome to boat ownership, particularly with an older boat.
Nothing about your story is really all that amazing Learn your boat, learn its systems, learn to do basic maintenance on your own and you will be a lot happier, and richer, in the end.
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10-10-2019, 05:44 PM | #6 |
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You have a strange way of boosting one's confidence... If I was LaFuga, I'd tell you what to do with that smiley face!!! What difference does it make that it's an older boat? I disagree with it not being an amazing story. It's amazing to me that a marina would do this to someone and not have the courtesy to at least admit they made a mistake, let alone give the guy back a partial refund. I think this marina should be identified. That's the risk a business takes with social media around these days. Take care of your customers properly, and admit mistakes when they are made. In other words, TAKE RESPONSIBILITY, or get trashed on social media. It works the other way too. If someone is happy with their service somewhere, broadcast that too. It happens all the time on this forum. Although I agree you should know basic maintenance, I don't consider replacing a fuel tank "basic maintenance". How many fuel tanks does the typical boat owner change out in a lifetime...??? I haven't done one yet since I bought my first boat in 1987, and I have had quite a few over the years. Some people are better than others at working on "stuff". That's what makes the world go round...
Last edited by Cal Coon; 10-10-2019 at 06:29 PM. |
10-11-2019, 09:43 AM | #7 | |
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Old boats tend to be a lot of work and can have a lot of hidden costs and problems. Marine/marina mechanics don't have all the answers, and may try troubleshooting things via seemingly random approaches, lie to you, skip steps, or otherwise do things that end up costing you more than they should. You would be well served to know the basic systems on your vessel, and be able to do diagnostics and repairs on your own. At the very least, be able to approximately diagnose some things at least to the point you can tell if the mechanic seems competent or not. There is "nothing amazing" about this story in that thousands of boat owners across the state, country, or world, could probably tell you similar stories. Sure, you can call out the marina if you like, though diagnosing problems like this can be less than straightforward, plus we would probably still only have 1 side of the story. In hindsight, it certainly could have been handled better on both sides.
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Dave R (10-11-2019) |
10-11-2019, 10:37 AM | #8 | |
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I'm in a service field. I claim to be an expert in the field and I should be held to a high standard. My time is worth money just like everyone else's. However, I can't get comfortable charging clients/customers for work where I didn't provide a service to the customer, or worse, provide them a disservice. I don't claim to be perfect and I make sure my team knows that they're not expected to be perfect. When you make mistakes you try to make sure they're not material mistakes and further learn from them so they don't happen again. When providing a service though in exchange for money, you bet there should be some frustration if I was the customer and didn't receive the benefit of what I was being charged for.
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Cal Coon (10-11-2019) |
10-11-2019, 11:05 AM | #9 | |
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Yes, in an ideal world, all "professionals" are experts in their field and held to the highest standards. In the real world, I think we have all likely experienced situations where a "professional" did not deliver on the expectations. Boats break down, usually in expensive ways. Even when they don't break down, they tend to be costly to maintain, and those costs will often go up as the boat ages. You have two basic options here, learn/understand enough of the boat to do the work yourself, or to be able to select and work with a competent mechanic, OR rely on someone else to do the work and hope you are not getting overcharged along the way. Again, nothing about this story of "I bought an old bought and then a marina overcharged me for repairs" really seems that out of the ordinary for someone who does not appear to be well versed in boat engines. Not enough info here to say if the mechanic was totally unqualified to work on the boat, or if he was going more off a method of "I've seen something like this a couple of times before and it was X".
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10-11-2019, 11:32 AM | #10 |
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I'll just share this for what it's worth.
Back years ago I used to be a technician for Toyota. There were times where somebody would bring in a car\truck that was displaying a particular symptom. OK fine, the trouble is I'd take a look and find that the vehicle had undergone significant modifications, some not always well executed and some how I'm expected to be a miracle worker and figure out what clearly whoever was in there before was unable to. Sometimes you can some times you cannot. Heck I've had stuff towed in accompanied with a box of parts, most times missing stuff to reassemble and get working again. Ironically I'd say the majority of owners of these vehicles had little or no money and griped if they were charged to much - keep in mind part of that charge is to figure out what you're dealing with. Many customers do not want to pay for this and it is crucial in order to understand sometimes what is going on. Experience is also key. I can't tell you how many times due to inexperience I had to pull in somebody usually a master tech to help me out cause I couldn't figure things out. Sure there were a few times I thought I had something fixed and sure enough it came back with an owner who doesn't necessarily appreciate that you're doing your best effort to help them out and fix their problem. Sometimes problems are a phantom, sometimes they come back days, weeks or months later. There is only so much you can do to check to ensure a fix is really a fix. Of course some don't get that and think you're useless as a result, in fact some customers were downright condescending to which I would just think sure everything YOU do is 100% all the time. Bottom line is - nobody is perfect. If something does end up coming back because it's not fixed, how that is handled is really what gives a customer a good experience or not. I can tell you I hung new parts thinking it would solve a problem when it didn't. It happens. Best I could do in those situations is give the customer some sort of service of equivalent value for their inconvenience. Some appreciated it some didn't. Is what it is. Not to say there are not guys who don't know what they are doing out there, or upsell work and parts that are not needed. This is a typical assumption which is not fair to those who are otherwise good guys that simply sometimes don't get it right the first time. |
10-11-2019, 01:16 PM | #11 | |
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We're getting aside from the point. This guy is frustrated and he came here to vent. Re-read his last sentence and he feels bad about not going back when he said he would. I don't blame him for not going back and applaud him for figuring it out on his own. You, on the other hand, completely dismiss it and said nothing you did was amazing and that you should learn your boat and all it's problems. I love boating, think I have time to learn every mechanical aspect of my boat? Nope...so I rely on others. My whole point here is just be a better person rather than put the guy down. Agree or disagree, that's your opinion but next time you do something impressive that you didn't know you can do and then seek some advice I really hope someone doesn't ***** all over you for it and call it not amazing.
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10-11-2019, 01:28 PM | #12 |
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old boats are tough if you're not mechanically inclined. If i had all the money i wasted on old boats as a youngster I'd be one happy guy. BUT i learned a hell of a lot at the same time. Education is expensive regardless how you get it.
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10-11-2019, 05:16 PM | #13 | |
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Exactly. If you don't know boats and aren't mechanical, steer well clear of old ones. It that is all you can afford, you can't afford it. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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10-11-2019, 05:37 PM | #14 |
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My first boat (a poorly made and poorly maintained "bargain") taught me to buy nothing but well-maintained older cream puffs. My fourth boat is my third cream puff and it's been great.
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10-11-2019, 05:41 PM | #15 | |
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Last edited by Cal Coon; 10-11-2019 at 06:16 PM. |
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10-11-2019, 06:02 PM | #16 |
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There are many reasons why people have "old" boats. Not always because they can't afford better. Some are classics, some may only go boating once or twice a year, some may have sentimental value, some may just like them better, who knows, there are many reasons. Also, just because you have a new(er) boat doesn't mean you won't have problems. ALL boats have problems, I don't care what year it is. Didn't your mother ever tell you not to judge a book by it's cover??? You can have someone in an old boat with a huge bank account, and you can have someone in a 150k boat that can't afford to put gas in it!! Goes both ways... (sometimes). I know, perception is reality, right?
Last edited by Cal Coon; 10-11-2019 at 06:54 PM. |
10-12-2019, 06:11 AM | #17 |
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First, I applaud those defending, not critiquing, the OP.
Second, I don't know anything naturally when it comes to mechanics, but I research like crazy and often fix my own things. In that process, I've discovered many "experts" who aren't really experts, so I totally understand the OP. Third, bravo! You got it running! Though you put wayyyy more than I would've into that project (we can discuss sunk cost bias on another thread!), it must be satisfying to have it working well. Fourth, and I have no idea why I'm numbering (other than to keep track in my head), I would not feel one iota of regret for not going back. I would, however--and this is a personal thing--have an issue with not having closure. Like, if I ever did need to go back there, or if he ended up working somewhere else in the future, etc. So, fifth, were it me: I would think hard about how I could end things on a positive note. A sort-of, "alright, man, we're good to go, but let's figure out the best way to move on." Good luck! Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app |
10-12-2019, 05:29 PM | #18 |
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Free your soul...take it back
OP got "screwed" by the marina/mechanic whether by laziness, incompetence, or even bad intention.
Being made "whole" physically should have included a full refund of expenditures minus the cost of the initial inspection that should have uncovered the real issue. Being made "whole" should also have included a forthright acknowledgement that they screwed up. OP got neither. One wonders at the ethics & conscience, or lack thereof, of the marina/mechanic. BUT...not living up to your own agreements is just getting down in the mud with them. This is a question of the OPs ethics & conscience. I would encourage OP to take the boat just for the part removal. Not for the benefit of the marina but for their personal benefit of a clear conscience and a forthright statement of their ethics. IOW, you will sleep better if you follow through.
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10-12-2019, 09:51 PM | #19 | |
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Last edited by Cal Coon; 10-12-2019 at 10:33 PM. |
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10-13-2019, 04:38 AM | #20 | |
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OP: do you get the sense that this guy just wasn't right/incompetent or do you feel that he intentionally took advantage of you? Sent from my SM-G950U using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app |
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10-13-2019, 10:59 AM | #21 | |
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10-13-2019, 02:28 PM | #22 |
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