Sill Replacement

[secondcurve]

I have a cottage in Tuftonboro. Recently, I discovered that a portion of the sill had rotted out. I have a carpenter doing some work on another part of the cottage and he has tried to get someone who specilaizes in this type of work to take a look at the job. Unfortunately, his contacts are busy and no one seems interested in the work. Can anyone give me a recommendation?

[Puckster]

Call Wildwood Improvement. 569-4422. He has been doing quality work in the area for 20 years.

[idigtractors]

Originally Posted by secondcurve

I have a cottage in Tuftonboro. Recently, I discovered that a portion of the sill had rotted out. I have a carpenter doing some work on another part of the cottage and he has tried to get someone who specializes in this type of work to take a look at the job.

Replacing sills is a standard carpenters job. It usually does not take a carpenter that specializes in this type of work. Call any reputable carpenter and they should do it for you. It takes a bit of time but no real special skills.

[secondcurve]

Thanks. The part I left out is he didn't have the equipment (jacks). So I agree, you are correct it isn't a specialized job.

[idigtractors]

Originally Posted by secondcurve

Thanks. The part I left out is he didn't have the equipment (jacks). So I agree, you are correct it isn't a specialized job.

Now you really have my curiosity. You use the word JACKS. What type of jacks are required? Is this window on the second floor and this carpenter is saying you need pole jacks to work off of? Most of us just use a ladder and there is no type of jack needed in the process of replacing the window sill. Like I said this is more for my own curiosity as I have never heard of needing any type of a jack.

[chipj29]

I think he may be talking about the sill plate around the house, rather than a window sill. To replace it, one would have to jack up and support the house while the rotted sill is removed and replaced. Not such a small job.

[ApS]

House jacks are needed to replace the structural "sill" that the house stands on. It is often made of 6x8 lumber or larger, and runs all around the perimeter of the house.

One of my "sills" was replaced with pressure-treated (PT) wood at my request. One sill in fifty years—not too bad.

[Skip]

Originally Posted by idigtractors

Now you really have my curiosity. You use the word JACKS. What type of jacks are required? Is this window on the second floor and this carpenter is saying you need pole jacks to work off of? Most of us just use a ladder and there is no type of jack needed in the process of replacing the window sill. Like I said this is more for my own curiosity as I have never heard of needing any type of a jack.

I believe he is referencing the foundation sill of his cottage and not a window sill?

[SIKSUKR]

They never mentioned "window"sill.I'm sure they are talking about the foundation sill.The portion of house that needs sill replacement would need to be jacked up to pull the old sill and replace.Not really a difficult job.Usuall the hardest part is getting sill to release from it's fasteners.I've used a couple of bottle jacks and once a house jack.

[secondcurve]

Skip and SikSukr:

You are both correct. It is the dreaded foundation sill. Fortunatly, it sounds like I dig tractors has never had this problem.

[idigtractors]

Originally Posted by secondcurve

Skip and SikSukr:

You are both correct. It is the dreaded foundation sill. Fortunatly, it sounds like I dig tractors has never had this problem.

You got it guys. I mis-read the issue. And yes we've replace a good number of them and there are many ways to do that job. Guess it is up to the individual that is doing it and the way he prefers to do the job.

[Felix]

Try Tom Lennon at TLConstruction cell phone 340-1379, He is in Melvin village.

[DREAMS]

Lake Winni Island Property Management has had experience and done this work before for other customers. Give them a call at 603-253-7091. They are very reasonable and quality work. Good luck !

[BigLake]

I have a home in Moultonboro, looking for references for a carpenter to jack up home and replace some sills.

[SAMIAM]

Secondcurve.....If it were my home,I would call Jeff O'Neil right here in Moultonborough.Jeff is an "old school" kind of builder.Takes pride in his work and very resonable and that is the kind of a job that he could probably do very soon.His number is 284-6669....good luck.

[jmen24]

Couple of other things to look at while there.

Sill rot can be prevented from happening again by making sure that the grade is not to close to the wood material. In alot of older homes they did not come out of the ground very far because it was cheaper to build with wood that to lay granite blocks. If it is not possible to get the grade down (while maintaining proper slope away from the house) install a good bed of crushed stone in the 1 3/4" size range and install a gutter it you can (not everyone likes gutters, so we only put them up if asked for). It does not matter what material you replace it with, if it continues to get wet from splashing or from the the dirt wicking moisture into the wood it will rot. That goes for PT as well, a big misconception is that PT does not rot, that is not true. The process of Pressure Treating is to prevent insects from infecting the wood, anytime you subject wood to a repeated cycle of getting wet then drying, it will rot. The main goal is to keep water away in the first place. We have replaced many sills from many era's and it does not matter if it is a 200 year old 8x8, 6x8 or 15 year old 2x6 PT sill, if it gets wet it is not going to last.

If you do not believe me about PT not rotting, take a piece of PT and pour water over it, if it were designed to prevent rotdue to water, it would not absorb any water, let me know the findings.

Who ever does the work for you make sure they save you future hassles when they start putting things back together. They will need to replace the water table board and a couple courses of siding. If they put new material back up and it is wood, DEMAND that it is primed on all surfaces of the board, that includes end cuts. This small step will prevent you from replacing a rotted trim board in the next few years. The other option is to use composite trim such as Azek or Koma, only do this if it will fit the style and look of your home, but it will never rot.

[Lakesrider]

I just replaced the band joist that goes around my house due to rot. The guy that built the place never used any flashing and simply nailed the ledger board through the siding and into the joist. So rot and carpenter ants had their way with it. Luckily the piece was only bad for about 12 feet of the run. But I had to insert wedge jacks as I pulled it out. Luckily I can do that stuff myself with some help from a friend or I am sure it would have cost a few bucks to do.
When I did all my rework with the trim and siding I used the liquid copper stuff on the end cuts and then primed and painted, or stained.



You can see the PT sill board is fine but the non PT joist is all eaten up and rotted. I could stick a screw driver right through the board in spots.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Lakesrider

"...The guy that built the place never used any flashing...Luckily I can do that stuff myself..."

Me too: Sill-replacement isn't rocket science, but big jacks are needed. (And flashing isn't just for roofs).

Originally Posted by jmen24

"...That goes for PT...it will rot..."

Flashing wasn't used on a new walkway alongside the house. That walkway rotted through dangerously in less than ten years—AND rotted our sill. The replacement PT walkway still looks super after 15 years—except:

PT (pressure-treated) wood will definitely rot: Three boards on the replacement PT walkway were covered by a very heavy stainless-steel grid. The underside was not regularly swept of the hemlock needles that would collect there, so extended sogginess after each rain eventually rotted those three boards.

(On my check-list for next Spring).

I opted for a PT sill once it had been determined that the missing flashing caused the rot AND that carpenter ants have appeared here.

(There was scant difference in materials-cost anyway).

[jmen24]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

Me too: Sill-replacement isn't rocket science, but big jacks are needed. (And flashing isn't just for roofs).


Flashing wasn't used on a new walkway alongside the house. That walkway rotted through dangerously in less than ten years—AND rotted our sill. The replacement PT walkway still looks super after 15 years—except:

PT (pressure-treated) wood will definitely rot: Three boards on the replacement PT walkway were covered by a very heavy stainless-steel grid. The underside was not regularly swept of the hemlock needles that would collect there, so extended sogginess after each rain eventually rotted those three boards.

(On my check-list for next Spring).

I opted for a PT sill once it had been determined that the missing flashing caused the rot AND that carpenter ants have appeared here.

(There was scant difference in materials-cost anyway).

Do not get me wrong there is absolutely nothing wrong with using PT as a sill, that it is standard sill plate in modern construction. Keeping the bugs away is the idea and it sounds like you took care of the water issue as well which is the main concern that then causes the bugs.

I can assure you that BIG jacks are NOT needed to replace a sill or rim joist in all cases. Just depends on how you perform the work, the biggest tool in the trailer is not always needed. And you are correct about the flashing, every horizontal or sloped plane on the exterior of a home that is not pitched requires flashing, as well as any vertical surface meeting a slope or horizontal, and no caulking is not flashing.

[DEJ]

I agree with the PT sill however if you live by the lake there are much better choices for the walkway than PT.

PT has improved over the years regarding environmental issues but IMO still has stuff in it that one would not like leaching into the lake. It all adds up, a little fertilizer here, a little PT there, a septic issue etc... it all affects the water quality and aquatic health.

When your current walkway needs replacing consider a product such as trex, the extra cost is minimal and the use of this product should give you peace of mind that you are not doing harm to the environment.

[jmen24]

Originally Posted by DEJ

I agree with the PT sill however if you live by the lake there are much better choices for the walkway than PT.

PT has improved over the years regarding environmental issues but IMO still has stuff in it that one would not like leaching into the lake. It all adds up, a little fertilizer here, a little PT there, a septic issue etc... it all affects the water quality and aquatic health.

When your current walkway needs replacing consider a product such as trex, the extra cost is minimal and the use of this product should give you peace of mind that you are not doing harm to the environment.

Great post and an issue that is not brought up enough about the hazards of PT, the industry as a whole is not very far away from completely abandoning PT all together, but we wait while new product offerings are being tested.

I would like to put a bug in your ear regarding Trex and other similar composites and how "green" they really are not.

Trex, Correct Deck and others that use a composite material made of wood fiber and recycled plastic are not the "green" product that you think they are. Well in a sense they are because they use todays recycled materals, but that is where it ends. Once you combine wood fiber or pulp with plastic that product can never be recycled or disposed of in a way that will prevent it from being around for centuries. Wood on its own will decompose over time and return to nature (minus paints and sealers) plastic alone can be recycled as long as it is pure to its form. These products will eventually fill in a hole in the Earth and remain there for generations to come. So we are helping todays generation by using up recycled material but we pass the issue of having to deal with our new bi-product at a later date. If you truely want a "green" deck or walkway, use cedar, Ipe or mahogany decking products and allow them to naturally grey over time. All of these materials have little to know checking (cedar more than the others) and will not rot, become infested with bugs and will last a very long time. When your Great-Great-Great grandchildren deside to tear down the deck, they can have a fire or dispose in an approved dumping area and the material will fade back into the surrounds from which it came. Modern day Ipe and mahogany are grown in sustainable forests and not hacked out of the rain forests, you get certified material stamps with both, cedar is still harvested naturally. Ipe probably the most expensive natural decking material available, but both cedar and cambara mahogany are less money than composites.

The "green" products marketing is making alot of companies very rich, but if you really want to know how green something is look up how many LEED credits the product gets.

Thats all I have to say on that.

[Yosemite Sam]

To better understand what the pro's are talking about, I have inserted a picture of a "band joist" and given it's definition:

A "band joist" is a wooden joist perpendicular to the direction of the joists in a floor framing system, closing off the floor platform at the outside face of the building.

As you can see it is a good place for water to collect if it isn't protected properly. One of the worst areas for water collection is behind the deck band joist as the picture details.

[Lakesrider]

Not trying to hyjack the thread but if we are talking important things about band joists and sills....

I found out that it is much better to cut off the sheathing where the ledger board for a deck is going to attach to a house. It improves the strength of the connection to the house many fold over simply bolting through. So for those building a deck and attaching a ledger board, cut off the sheathing as well and tuck the flashing under the sheathing left on the house. Much stronger. I used vinyl flashing against the band joist on the house and copper under the siding and over the ledger board to the deck. Bugs hate copper too. And once again i painted/stained everything I installed with that liquid copper application. $15.00 a gallon.

[Yosemite Sam]

Originally Posted by Lakesrider

Not trying to hyjack the thread but if we are talking important things about band joists and sills....

I found out that it is much better to cut off the sheathing where the ledger board for a deck is going to attach to a house. It improves the strength of the connection to the house many fold over simply bolting through. So for those building a deck and attaching a ledger board, cut off the sheathing as well and tuck the flashing under the sheathing left on the house. Much stronger. I used vinyl flashing against the band joist on the house and copper under the siding and over the ledger board to the deck. Bugs hate copper too. And once again i painted/stained everything I installed with that liquid copper application. $15.00 a gallon.

I have built a few decks in my time but have never cut the sheathing where the ledger board connects to it. I guess I'll have to think that one over for while.
Your other advice is excellent!!

[DEJ]

Good points jmen24 however in this day and age most everything we throw away is recycled in one way or another. Trex and similar products will not be put in landfills as their recycle value is to high which is a good thing.

Trex just like the plastic and wood fiber it is made from initially will simply be reprocessed and made into other products, not put in landfills, it is to valuable to do so. That is what is so great about this/these products, they can and are reprocessed so that they do not end up in our landfills for eternity.

Pressure treated lumber I agree is a thing of the past or will be so very soon. I hope the NH DEP will soon outlaw it's use for decks and walkways as it appears there are some who do not realize the harm they are doing to our environment with the use of this product.

[jmen24]

Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam

I have built a few decks in my time but have never cut the sheathing where the ledger board connects to it. I guess I'll have to think that one over for while.
Your other advice is excellent!!

I have to agree that I have never heard of or seen sheathing being cut back for a ledger attachment. I would also caution against flashing under the sheathing and over your ledger as you expose the end cuts on the plywood sheathing. You want flash between the siding and the sheathing as the diagram above shows.

Originally Posted by DEJ

Good points jmen24 however in this day and age most everything we throw away is recycled in one way or another. Trex and similar products will not be put in landfills as their recycle value is to high which is a good thing.

Trex just like the plastic and wood fiber it is made from initially will simply be reprocessed and made into other products, not put in landfills, it is to valuable to do so. That is what is so great about this/these products, they can and are reprocessed so that they do not end up in our landfills for eternity.

Pressure treated lumber I agree is a thing of the past or will be so very soon. I hope the NH DEP will soon outlaw it's use for decks and walkways as it appears there are some who do not realize the harm they are doing to our environment with the use of this product.

But as of today there is no feasable way to recycle these materials, that I know of (if you know of a place, please let me know as it is important to expand the horizons), so we are at a hope and pray we find a use and a way to deal with them. You still will be very limited with what you could do with them as the wood fiber is a deal breaker when it comes to making new plastic materials.

[DEJ]

Here ya go.

http://www.ebuild.com/articles/554009.hwx

[tis]

I would never ever use wood again, but only use Azek for a deck. It isn't totally care free, but mostly.
The joists of course have to be wood so PT is a good choice as although it won't last forever, it lasts a lot longer. It is no longer made with arsenic so is much safer. The 2xs cannot be used on the ground as they have a .25 retention, but the 4xs can, as they have a .40 retention.

[jmen24]

Originally Posted by DEJ

Here ya go.

http://www.ebuild.com/articles/554009.hwx

Thank you very much, I have learned quite a bit from this forum and this is another item on the list.

I will have to do some research as it does not exactly say what it gets recycled into, but thanks again for the info.

[tis]

We used Correct Deck on part of the dock and because it has wood fibers in it it mildew-ed. And people don't like it because of that problem. They came out with a new one, I believe it was called CX which didn't have the wood fibers but that faded. They had a lot of lawsuits and have filed bankruptcy and been bought out by someone. Just be careful with the Correct Deck and check it out thoroughly as it does have issues.
We have used different kinds over the years and I like them ALL above the wood for the deck surface.

[gf2020]

Anybody notice that this thread was originally from two years ago? I suspect secondcurve may have had his problem fixed by now.

[VitaBene]

The thread was revived by BigLake having a similar problem on 9-28-09. He/she did the right thing, searched for sill replacement, found this thread and asked about a Moultonborough contractor.

Regardless of how it was pulled back up it has caused a lot of good conversation and discussion. I know I have learned a few things.

[jmen24]

Originally Posted by tis

We used Correct Deck on part of the dock and because it has wood fibers in it it mildew-ed. And people don't like it because of that problem. They came out with a new one, I believe it was called CX which didn't have the wood fibers but that faded. They had a lot of lawsuits and have filed bankruptcy and been bought out by someone. Just be careful with the Correct Deck and check it out thoroughly as it does have issues.
We have used different kinds over the years and I like them ALL above the wood for the deck surface.

We stopped using correct deck about two years ago after they went to the new CX product. It is hard to get a customer to buy a product that you (the contractor) think is not attractive and hard to work with. The railing systems are not even worth the hassle and they look terrible when completed. The one and only installation of the CX product we did, we noticed that in the morning dew, that deck was like a skating rink, because of the anti-microbial coating on the decking. It just looks fake. Composites in our minds are just not worth the additional cost, when compared to a decking material like Cambara (which is quite a bit cheaper in cost) there is no comparison, and you know what, it really is not that hard to apply a coat of UV protector every two years to keep it looking good or you could let it grey and it still looks good.

Tis, in your case, over the water, the composites are the way to go, no splinters in bare feet. The mildew in the original correct deck was a big problem, but they made things worse by switching to the CX product that looks completely fake, its like they just threw their hands up and said "oh well"

[tis]

I totally agree with you on the Correct Deck, jmen. However, we had cambara once and I didn't like it at all after a few years. Now that deck has been Azek for about three years now and I love it. We had three different kinds on the docks, I can't remember all of them and some were better than others. One was hot on your feet, so we bought one with the wood fibers, and that mildewed. THe other one was pretty good! Must have been Azek!

[trfour]

but some very good info...

Other great products for decking on the Lake and or ocean front. Veranda Decking & Railing Systems. Radius edge deck board with reversible finish. Moulded on one side; and embossed, wood-grain on the other for a nonskid application in wet areas, wheelchair access etc.
Note; as with any material being used for decking where moisture is prevalent, where there is heavy shading or where pollen and debris are allowed to collect, mold may form. In most cases, soap and water will maintain the appearance of Veranda. If grime, ground in dirt or rust marks become a problem, use Behr NO. 62 wood cleaner brightener Conditioner.
To eliminate mold, use Behr No. 62 multy Surface Cleaner and mildew Stain Remover.

http://www.verandadeck.com/decking/literature.htm

Some friends here in the lakes Region have had very good luck with this decking.

[Grady223]

Originally Posted by secondcurve

I have a cottage in Tuftonboro. Recently, I discovered that a portion of the sill had rotted out. I have a carpenter doing some work on another part of the cottage and he has tried to get someone who specilaizes in this type of work to take a look at the job. Unfortunately, his contacts are busy and no one seems interested in the work. Can anyone give me a recommendation?

Yes, Dan Perkins - Wolfeboro 569-5728. Has done similar work for me - excellent work - fair price.

[Dave M]

I had the same problem. Water got behind the T-111 and rotted part of my sill near my screened porch part of my camp. My camp is on stilts on cement tubes and the sill is two 2x10 together. Lucky for me an 8' section was only rotted and only on one the the 2x10 and it happen near the joint of one of the 2x10. Had to pull my small deck off and remove two section of T-111 below the screened section. I just made a cut on the first 2x10 at a good section, removed nails with cats paw and replaced. Used 3" screws to tie the two 2x10 together. I used two 6-ton hydraulic "jacks" to hold the existing sill in place. Had to replace the center post due to being rotted as well. Line leveled the whole front of the camp and replaced all posts with PT. My non-PT posts were all starting to show wear. There was no flashing used for camp/deck. I'm using "L" flashing that goes behind the T-111 and it is bent to sit on the deck board (2 by ?)thats attached to the T-111. This piece also goes down the outside of that 2 by ? a bit. Don't expect water to get behind this. I'm still working on this and has turned into more of project but while I had everything apart I decided to do everything. My other PT posts shows no wear at all. Maybe because they are not "sitting" in water.

Dave M