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Old 05-02-2017, 08:40 AM   #1
BroadHopper
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Default Full lake 2017

This article hint of a 'no wake' situation this spring.

http://www.unionleader.com/environme...evels-05022017
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Old 05-02-2017, 09:06 AM   #2
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This past weekend I noticed the lake was down an inch or so from the previous weekend, for whatever that is worth (probably nothing)

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Old 05-02-2017, 09:09 AM   #3
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I don't know why they have to let so much damned water out of Winni...the rivers downstream are raging and dollars to donuts we'll experience a low water situation like last year. Keep the lake full dammit! Just my opinion,of course...
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Old 05-02-2017, 09:49 AM   #4
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With my dock now in the water, I have my guage.. While the water is high, it still can come up another 3 to 4 inches.... At that point in the past is generally when Winnipesaukee has gone No Wake..... We just have to see how much rain May brings with it.

As for HillCountry's statement.... While it would be nice for DES to let the lake fill more, most private shore fronts, and even some Marina's are not built to handle to much more water then 504.5 ft above see level.... In short once the lake goes above that level, DES starts to get complaints.....
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Old 05-02-2017, 11:20 AM   #5
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The lake level has gone above the full lake level and the Lakeport output has been gradually increased since mid April to keep it from going much higher. The next 10 days is looking very rainy so that seems like a smart policy for now.

The lake level management is more art than science. A couple heavy rainfalls and the lake level goes soaring up. You can't open the dam much more at that time because the runoff from the rain is already causing high levels downstream. It can take weeks to get the levels back down. The low levels last fall were unusual because of the drought caused lack of rain.

Overall, somewhat low lake levels are annoying but manageable. Levels above full lake cause lots of problems. Overall the dam management folks do a great job but they are at the mercy of unusually wet or dry weather just like the rest of us.
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Old 05-02-2017, 05:36 PM   #6
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The lake level has gone above the full lake level and the Lakeport output has been gradually increased since mid April to keep it from going much higher. The next 10 days is looking very rainy so that seems like a smart policy for now.

The lake level management is more art than science. A couple heavy rainfalls and the lake level goes soaring up. You can't open the dam much more at that time because the runoff from the rain is already causing high levels downstream. It can take weeks to get the levels back down. The low levels last fall were unusual because of the drought caused lack of rain.

Overall, somewhat low lake levels are annoying but manageable. Levels above full lake cause lots of problems. Overall the dam management folks do a great job but they are at the mercy of unusually wet or dry weather just like the rest of us.

So, if you can please enlighten us less knowledgeable lake users on how levels above full lake can cause lots of problems, what, exactly, are the problems?
I can visualize water levels ABOVE dock surfaces would be a problem but that would have to be quite a bit higher than "full lake" so what other problems can occur?
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Old 05-02-2017, 06:22 PM   #7
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So, if you can please enlighten us less knowledgeable lake users on how levels above full lake can cause lots of problems, what, exactly, are the problems?
I can visualize water levels ABOVE dock surfaces would be a problem but that would have to be quite a bit higher than "full lake" so what other problems can occur?


Go over to Sheps, part of their docks are under water as well as part of the town dock there.

Dock levels are relative and probably why full lake is determined by a more precise measurement - as compared to sea level.

Far as any additional problems, clearly shoreline erosion is the biggest concern once you see water levels exceed the natural exposed rock along the shores that protect the soils that are behind them.
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Old 05-02-2017, 06:41 PM   #8
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So, if you can please enlighten us less knowledgeable lake users on how levels above full lake can cause lots of problems, what, exactly, are the problems?
I can visualize water levels ABOVE dock surfaces would be a problem but that would have to be quite a bit higher than "full lake" so what other problems can occur?
When the water is high enough to wash up on front lawns any fertilizer that has been used gets washed into the lake and helps the millfoil grow.

Docks that work well to handle boats at a certain height can damage boats when the rub rail is above the posts.

If you look at some of the cottages on Paugus Bay along Weirs Boulevard near Christmas Island you will see that they do not have a lot of room to work with before high water will damage them.

There are many low bridges (Alton, Wolfeboro to name two) and high water prevents some boats from transiting those channels.

When the water is very high it is difficult for some of the large boats to exit Silver Sands Marina under the island bridge.
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Old 05-02-2017, 08:46 PM   #9
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So, if you can please enlighten us less knowledgeable lake users on how levels above full lake can cause lots of problems, what, exactly, are the problems?
I can visualize water levels ABOVE dock surfaces would be a problem but that would have to be quite a bit higher than "full lake" so what other problems can occur?
Shore erosion increases during high water and is made worse by boat wake and wind storms. Erosion brings silt and nutrients into the lake, feeding algae and other plants. Sandy bottoms turn to muck, water clarity decreases and outbreaks of cyanobacteria are more likely. Six inches below full is the best balance for recreation and lake health.
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Old 05-03-2017, 05:52 AM   #10
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So, if you can please enlighten us less knowledgeable lake users on how levels above full lake can cause lots of problems, what, exactly, are the problems?
I can visualize water levels ABOVE dock surfaces would be a problem but that would have to be quite a bit higher than "full lake" so what other problems can occur?
Sorry I didn't provide an expansive list but it has been a topic of conversation on the forum during most spring seasons so I thought it was reasonably well known. Others have now expanded for me. Also, as I suggested, at the current level, all it takes is a couple heavy rain storms in a short period of time and the lake is so full that NH imposes a no wake restriction on the lake which makes it pretty much unusable for power boats wanting to travel anywhere because a 45 minute ride on plane becomes hours at no wake speeds. That affects commerce in the area since people avoid coming to the lake because they can't do as much. Since no one can accurately predict when such a combination of storms might pop up and dumping the resulting water is a problem, it is prudent to keep the lake at a level where it could handle some of the excess water without hitting a critical point.
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Old 05-04-2017, 07:30 AM   #11
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Default No-Wake mandate at 505.0?

This morning, the lake is at 504.40, almost an inch over a full lake level of 504.32. There is no statute mandating a lake wide no-wake zone, but in my opinion, it should be set to 505.00, a seven inch flood. That would honor the recreation and economic needs, yet put a cap on damage to lake health. I don't think anything lower would win approval. According to Bizer's lake level charts, the level has only gone above 505 feet three (almost four) times since 2000.

It has been years since the area flooded and Winnipesaukee water quality measures better than five years ago. Clarity is better and phosphorus (plant food) level is lower. I hope we don't get an opportunity to measure its decline. We are a unusually heavy rain and a sunny warm weekend away from that happening.

If you are interested in water quality, the best organizations to get involved with are Lake Winnipesaukee Association (local management) and NH Lakes Association (state wide legislation).
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Old 05-05-2017, 04:39 PM   #12
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The only time I remember they mandated a lake wide no wake was on or around July 4th in 1998. What was the level at then?
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Old 05-05-2017, 05:32 PM   #13
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Lakegeezer, you mention water quality has improved the last few years. i was unaware of that but its certainly great news.
When there is a lot of rain or melt does that flush the lake (a good thing) or does the runoff bring the phosphorus, salt.... into the lake (a bad thing)?
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Old 05-05-2017, 09:43 PM   #14
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Stormwater runoff creates problems all around the state. There are recent rules (last 5-10 years) to better control this, but we still have, for example, too much salt on our roads. The folks who minimize phosphorus on lawns, may still salt their driveways and adjacent roads. Whatever your chemical preference, vegetation or distance from the lake or some other water body, it all still runs downhill. Could be salt, fertilizer, animal droppings, PFOA or MtBE. It all goes down gradient.
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Old 05-08-2017, 06:46 AM   #15
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Still and stagnant water brings its own set of problems, as the drought situation we had last season. That will also negatively affect water quality.
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Old 05-08-2017, 07:20 AM   #16
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The only time I remember they mandated a lake wide no wake was on or around July 4th in 1998. What was the level at then?
I am not sure of the exact level but this is a picture of the small island at Silver Sands Marina taken July 4th 1998. I would guess the lake was at least 18 inches above normal.
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Old 05-08-2017, 07:44 AM   #17
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Here is Bizer's lake level chart from a decade ago. I estimate the peak of the 1998 flood was just over 14 inches above full lake, and down to about a foot for July 4.
Chart does also show the severity of the 1984 high lake level.
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Old 05-17-2017, 11:59 AM   #18
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Default Too keep an eye on things check here....

http://www.des.nh.gov/organization/d.../winni_levels/

We are watching this daily as we have some work to do on our dock and the supports are under water - tough to use the power tools!
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Old 05-17-2017, 01:00 PM   #19
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http://www.des.nh.gov/organization/d.../winni_levels/

We are watching this daily as we have some work to do on our dock and the supports are under water - tough to use the power tools!
As of today, the lake is only about 3" above "full lake". How is this an issue??.... If your waiting for it to go down by any significant amount, that wont happen till September...

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Old 05-17-2017, 03:16 PM   #20
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That's actually interesting and probably a result of all the rain Sunday & Monday past ..... I actually made note to look under the bridge on Saturday (mid-day) and was somewhat surprised to see that the Lake was actually at Full Lake (red line just peeking above the waterline) -- I sort of expected to see an inch or two above the Red Line.


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Old 05-17-2017, 10:26 PM   #21
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"Full LAKE" since the 80's is at least 10" higher than all the time prior. Been on the island for over 4 decades. In 1984 worst flooding in recorded history. Docks that were functional and dry for nearly a century are IN the lake every 3-4 years on average now.
Why don't they show average lake levels over the last 75 years? In the last 20 years high water levels have caused erosion, dock and other real problems 6 times! Nubies on the lake have docks built to new full LAKE levels and weekend boaters don't have problems. No so for us who built prior to 1984. I have lost 4-7 feet of shoreline soil since 1990 despite re-rocking shoreline numerous times.
I know it is a difficult job when electrical generation is the major factor in keeping the lake high. Wish they would lower lake so that a 2 inch rain forcasted 7-10 day before doesn't cause problems. Seems they manage the levels re-actively rather than pro-activley. Need a lower "safety net" level ALL year.
P.S. If lowering water level 10" more is going to damage props (as some use as excuse for full lake) then you are going too fast, don't have a chart or local knowledge or you are in the wrong area.
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Old 05-18-2017, 07:04 AM   #22
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"Full LAKE" since the 80's is at least 10" higher than all the time prior. Been on the island for over 4 decades. In 1984 worst flooding in recorded history. Docks that were functional and dry for nearly a century are IN the lake every 3-4 years on average now.
Why don't they show average lake levels over the last 75 years? In the last 20 years high water levels have caused erosion, dock and other real problems 6 times! Nubies on the lake have docks built to new full LAKE levels and weekend boaters don't have problems. No so for us who built prior to 1984. I have lost 4-7 feet of shoreline soil since 1990 despite re-rocking shoreline numerous times.
I know it is a difficult job when electrical generation is the major factor in keeping the lake high. Wish they would lower lake so that a 2 inch rain forcasted 7-10 day before doesn't cause problems. Seems they manage the levels re-actively rather than pro-activley. Need a lower "safety net" level ALL year.
P.S. If lowering water level 10" more is going to damage props (as some use as excuse for full lake) then you are going too fast, don't have a chart or local knowledge or you are in the wrong area.
I imagine the water level is high everywhere so when you lower the level of the lake it will affect someone else downstream.
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Old 05-18-2017, 08:56 AM   #23
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This is probably the best article I have read which explains the reasoning behind full lake and fall draw down and the science behind it. DES has their hands full maintaining the lake at a proper level and I think they do a great job for the most part!

http://nhpr.org/post/maintaining-lev...nment#stream/0

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Old 05-18-2017, 11:53 AM   #24
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As of today, the lake is only about 3" above "full lake". How is this an issue??.... If your waiting for it to go down by any significant amount, that wont happen till September...

Dan
We recently purchased the property and had I been in possession of a crystal ball I would have done the work on the dock before I bought the house. The issue is that the dock supports need to be replaced and they are 2 inches under water. Since you don't see the issue Dan - can I borrow your DeWalt tools then?

I am well aware of lake levels and how they fluctuate throughout the season... but thanks for letting me know about September. That was super helpful.

I now know why I have been a member of this board for years but rarely offer a comment. I was simply showing users how to get up to the date numbers on the lake level.

Happy Summer and as they say in the South - Bless Your Heart!
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Old 05-18-2017, 12:54 PM   #25
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Dont understand the sarcasm towards Dan. Always very informative and never out of line. I didnt sense his post was an attack on you rather that the lake is pretty near normal and your issue would be the same most years.
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Old 05-18-2017, 01:06 PM   #26
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We recently purchased the property and had I been in possession of a crystal ball I would have done the work on the dock before I bought the house. The issue is that the dock supports need to be replaced and they are 2 inches under water. Since you don't see the issue Dan - can I borrow your DeWalt tools then?

I am well aware of lake levels and how they fluctuate throughout the season... but thanks for letting me know about September. That was super helpful.

I now know why I have been a member of this board for years but rarely offer a comment. I was simply showing users how to get up to the date numbers on the lake level.

Happy Summer and as they say in the South - Bless Your Heart!
I don't know when you bought the property but most people plan their in water dock repairs after Labor Day. You don't need a crystal ball for that. Just sayin!

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Old 05-18-2017, 01:16 PM   #27
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We recently purchased the property and had I been in possession of a crystal ball I would have done the work on the dock before I bought the house. The issue is that the dock supports need to be replaced and they are 2 inches under water. Since you don't see the issue Dan - can I borrow your DeWalt tools then?

I am well aware of lake levels and how they fluctuate throughout the season... but thanks for letting me know about September. That was super helpful.

I now know why I have been a member of this board for years but rarely offer a comment. I was simply showing users how to get up to the date numbers on the lake level.

Happy Summer and as they say in the South - Bless Your Heart!
I wasn't trying to be a wise ass JR. My question was legit as I was just trying to figure out how the lake being just slightly above Full lake or almost normal for this time of year screwed you up. It's not like it's way above it's normal height.

Since you rarely post here I didn't know you were "well aware of how the lake fluctuates" and why I mentioned September....Many who come here are looking for information and I was just trying to pass that on...

Thanks for the blessing on my heart though, it needs all the help it can get!

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Old 05-18-2017, 02:14 PM   #28
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I wasn't trying to be a wise ass JR. My question was legit as I was just trying to figure out how the lake being just slightly above Full lake or almost normal for this time of year screwed you up. It's not like it's way above it's normal height.

Since you rarely post here I didn't know you were "well aware of how the lake fluctuates" and why I mentioned September....Many who come here are looking for information and I was just trying to pass that on...

Thanks for the blessing on my heart though, it needs all the help it can get!

Dan
Thanks! Again have a great summer. BTW - I notice you didn't offer up your Dewalt for my project
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Old 05-18-2017, 02:17 PM   #29
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Dont understand the sarcasm towards Dan. Always very informative and never out of line. I didnt sense his post was an attack on you rather that the lake is pretty near normal and your issue would be the same most years.
As was I when I offered up the link to DES (informative). And around here I thought sarcasm was how this entire forum operated. My bad.

Have a great Summer - I promise never to be sarcastic again.
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Old 05-18-2017, 03:04 PM   #30
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Default Lake Level

The gauge on our dock post on East Bear Island indicates that the lake is about six inches below pool (full) elevation. 🐻
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Old 05-18-2017, 03:40 PM   #31
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"Full LAKE" since the 80's is at least 10" higher than all the time prior. Been on the island for over 4 decades. In 1984 worst flooding in recorded history. Docks that were functional and dry for nearly a century are IN the lake every 3-4 years on average now.
Why don't they show average lake levels over the last 75 years? In the last 20 years high water levels have caused erosion, dock and other real problems 6 times! Nubies on the lake have docks built to new full LAKE levels and weekend boaters don't have problems. No so for us who built prior to 1984. I have lost 4-7 feet of shoreline soil since 1990 despite re-rocking shoreline numerous times.
I know it is a difficult job when electrical generation is the major factor in keeping the lake high. Wish they would lower lake so that a 2 inch rain forcasted 7-10 day before doesn't cause problems. Seems they manage the levels re-actively rather than pro-activley. Need a lower "safety net" level ALL year.
P.S. If lowering water level 10" more is going to damage props (as some use as excuse for full lake) then you are going too fast, don't have a chart or local knowledge or you are in the wrong area.
Shame on us. Handful of posts after yours and nobody said "WELCOME".I will say it:"WELCOME TO THE FORUM"

I'm curious about your location to lose that much shore and to have your dock so low. The docks at my marina (early 1960's construction) would stand up well if the lake were another foot higher. Same for many docks I'm familiar with from similar construction period. Do your neighbors also have "low" docks?
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Old 05-18-2017, 03:45 PM   #32
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Shame on us. Handful of posts after yours and nobody said "WELCOME".I will say it:"WELCOME TO THE FORUM"
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Old 05-18-2017, 07:43 PM   #33
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The gauge on our dock post on East Bear Island indicates that the lake is about six inches below pool (full) elevation. 🐻
It must be up hill from East Bear to the Weirs Channel. I went under the bridge at 3 PM today and that gauge is showing the level at exactly "full lake".
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Old 05-18-2017, 08:06 PM   #34
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Downhill. 🐻 Oops, You are correct.......strong east wind pushes the water towards the Weirs.

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Old 05-19-2017, 09:48 AM   #35
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Checked our dock post gauge (a pair of nails) this morning. Lake level appears to be several inches above pool. My earlier reading was wrong. Looking forward to eating crow. 🍷
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Old 05-19-2017, 05:05 PM   #36
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Isn't it interesting to be discussing "FULL" lake level when last fall the discussion was about "LOW" lake levels....And The MV Mt Sunapee running aground.

Mother Nature sure is fickle and the DES has a tough job keeping up with her.

https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums...highlight=lake
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Old 05-20-2017, 08:18 AM   #37
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All I know is my prop should make it through at least half the summer season in pristine condition.
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Old 05-20-2017, 09:14 AM   #38
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All I know is my prop should make it through at least half the summer season in pristine condition.


Now that is funny!!!


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Old Yesterday, 11:42 AM   #39
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Question Protected Waters?

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Originally Posted by 4 decade islander View Post
"Full LAKE" since the 80's is at least 10" higher than all the time prior. Been on the island for over 4 decades. In 1984 worst flooding in recorded history. Docks that were functional and dry for nearly a century are IN the lake every 3-4 years on average now.
Why don't they show average lake levels over the last 75 years? In the last 20 years high water levels have caused erosion, dock and other real problems 6 times! Nubies on the lake have docks built to new full LAKE levels and weekend boaters don't have problems. No so for us who built prior to 1984. I have lost 4-7 feet of shoreline soil since 1990 despite re-rocking shoreline numerous times.
I know it is a difficult job when electrical generation is the major factor in keeping the lake high. Wish they would lower lake so that a 2 inch rain forcasted 7-10 day before doesn't cause problems. Seems they manage the levels re-actively rather than pro-activley. Need a lower "safety net" level ALL year.
P.S. If lowering water level 10" more is going to damage props (as some use as excuse for full lake) then you are going too fast, don't have a chart or local knowledge or you are in the wrong area.
The recent trend towards high lake levels have been very good for dock-builders.

That I can recall, I've lost three trees in this undeveloped stretch of shoreline. One was huge, but the smaller trees "leaning" today suggest that erosion has increased in intensity.

Several of my trees that had formerly grown straight, have started "that lean" towards the lake.



'Course, my neighbor has it worse!



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