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Old 01-25-2020, 01:31 PM   #1
joey2665
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Default NH Snowmobilers 2020 Map

There was an article in the Sun today about people traveling off the trails on private property and mention the NH Snowmobilers 2020 Map App for iPhone and Android.

I downloaded it this morning it is awesome and works even if you have no network connection.


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Old 01-25-2020, 05:21 PM   #2
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I downloaded it for my android phone. It shows the trails, mostly without trail numbers (unless you tap on the trail and then ID comes up, which I had to figure out myself) or junction numbers, and it shows my position. That's very helpful and if you travel around the state you don't have to search for all the paper trail maps. It does NOT show restaurants or gas locations like it is supposed to do. It also does NOT show trail 'status' accurately, all the trails were just flagged yellow.

Also, on startup, it finds my location but does not zoom in to the area and you have to play around to zoom it to a useful level.

So it IS helpful but not fully functional on android, at least on mine. It's worthwhile as is but has lots of room for improvement.
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Old 01-26-2020, 08:20 AM   #3
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If anyone wants to see the map itself you can look here:

https://nhsa.evtrails.com/#

The app costs $5 per year, but the web version above works pretty well and is free to use.

I'm disappointed with the app, most of the time it uses the online web map, but does cache it so you can use it where there is no cell signal. But use of the cached map seems very limited in features.

If you use your cell, be sure to have a charger with you or you could find your cell battery dead when you most need it for an emergency call. Some cell phones use a lot of battery power when the GPS is run in the background as this app can do.

The app has potential, but to be great, this would mean every club could update the trails groomed almost in real time, or show current groomer position.

I'm going to keep an eye on it to see when things improve, but for now I'll stick with my dedicated GPS and GPS Trailmasters data.
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Old 01-26-2020, 09:34 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by jeffk View Post
It does NOT show restaurants or gas locations like it is supposed to do.
Actually it does show gas, club houses, warming huts, and snack shacks but you need to turn on the services (see below) you want to have enumerated on the screen.

I doubt they are going to incorporate specific restaurant listings - plus I have yet to run into a gas station where there wasn't some sort of place to eat near by.
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Old 01-26-2020, 11:04 AM   #5
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Default ..... sno-mo riding the rails?

Ok, so I drive down Scenic Rd in Weirs Beach all the time in my car, and can see from a short distance the snowmobile tracks in the snow, there, in between the steel railroad track that runs along the Winnipesaukee waterfront, as shown in the map above. The long red line trail in the map that skirts Paugus Bay, Lake Winnipesaukee, Lake Waukewan , and Lake Winona in Laconia, Meredith, New Hampton and Center Harbor is a single railroad track and the two steel rails are almost always higher up than the snow surface which gets compressed down by snowmobile use.

The inner width between the steel rails is about 48-inches, and the outer width of snowmobile front steering runners or skis varies but it close to 44-inches wide.

While there are old snow-mo tracks visible from Scenic Rd between the RR rails, I have never actually seen a snowmobile drive down the railroad tracks, between the two rails, with just four inches or two inches/side of space between the steel RR tracks and the sno-mo ski runners.

Riding the rails with so little in-between clearance probably means driving very slowly so's you don't get caught up on the inside of the RR tracks which extend up above the snow surface?
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Old 01-26-2020, 11:35 AM   #6
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Please delete completely off topic. and of no value to an otherwise interesting topic. More than likely just to stir up the WOW trail debate.

Last edited by Top-Water; 01-26-2020 at 01:20 PM. Reason: add comment on trail debate
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Old 01-26-2020, 11:43 AM   #7
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Actually it does show gas, club houses, warming huts, and snack shacks but you need to turn on the services (see below) you want to have enumerated on the screen.

I doubt they are going to incorporate specific restaurant listings - plus I have yet to run into a gas station where there wasn't some sort of place to eat near by.
Thanks for the visual. It seems to work like my older GPS unit on my boat. You could - fill and un-fill the maps as you wanted.

Thanks for the screen shot.
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Old 01-26-2020, 11:52 AM   #8
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Quote:
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Actually it does show gas, club houses, warming huts, and snack shacks but you need to turn on the services (see below) you want to have enumerated on the screen.

I doubt they are going to incorporate specific restaurant listings - plus I have yet to run into a gas station where there wasn't some sort of place to eat near by.
Good way for the Association to make some money. Gas and huts are essential but restaurants can pay to advertise.


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Old 01-26-2020, 07:59 PM   #9
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OK, found the services selection under Search. Notice on the map sample provided that the Village Kitchen is not flagged so I'm not impressed with their services list. Also it seems you have to turn on the selection each time you run the app.

As I stated, I will use it as is but it can be made a lot better.
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Old 01-28-2020, 12:18 PM   #10
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Please delete completely off topic. and of no value to an otherwise interesting topic. More than likely just to stir up the WOW trail debate.
ATTENTION
Snowmobilers (OHRV Users)
This Is An
Active Railroad
Trains Operate On These Tracks
Snowmobile and OHRV Use
Is Permitted
From: January 6
To: March 15
All Other Times Are Prohibited By Law
RSA 215-A:6 Vl

is what the two red, 18" wide x 30" high, warning signs say where the railroad track crosses Waukewan Rd in New Hampton, close to the very scenic, water crossing-road spot on the north side of Lake Waukewan.

It seems this snowmobile trail map is incomplete by not showing which sections are on a railroad track. For a map user it would be helpful to know where the snowmobile trail and the railroad track co-exist.
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Old 01-28-2020, 03:13 PM   #11
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OK, found the services selection under Search. Notice on the map sample provided that the Village Kitchen is not flagged so I'm not impressed with their services list. Also it seems you have to turn on the selection each time you run the app.

As I stated, I will use it as is but it can be made a lot better.
I'm sure like any app, it'll mature over time. It's pretty cool just to have something that can put you on a map and where you are on the trail system. Some areas are simply poorly marked or not at all.

Certainly better than nothing!
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Old 01-28-2020, 03:25 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by fatlazyless View Post
ATTENTION
Snowmobilers (OHRV Users)
This Is An
Active Railroad
Trains Operate On These Tracks
Snowmobile and OHRV Use
Is Permitted
From: January 6
To: March 15
All Other Times Are Prohibited By Law
RSA 215-A:6 Vl

is what the two red, 18" wide x 30" high, warning signs say where the railroad track crosses Waukewan Rd in New Hampton, close to the very scenic, water crossing-road spot on the north side of Lake Waukewan.

It seems this snowmobile trail map is incomplete by not showing which sections are on a railroad track. For a map user it would be helpful to know where the snowmobile trail and the railroad track co-exist.
Everyone knows this.... it's VERY well advertised at nearly every crossing. Status of these trails are also indicated where conditions are posted online and on every printed map I've seen.

Roll the dice, if coming face to face with a train is not enough incentive to stay off an active rail line then you deserve to die.
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Old 01-28-2020, 04:11 PM   #13
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I'm sure like any app, it'll mature over time. It's pretty cool just to have something that can put you on a map and where you are on the trail system. Some areas are simply poorly marked or not at all.

Certainly better than nothing!
MUCH better than nothing. I have already used it to reorient when I got off a poorly marked trail. I also double checked a couple of trail junctions and could tell I was exactly where I was supposed to be.

The app makers told me they are working with NHSA and hope to have all the trail numbers up to date very soon.
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Old 01-28-2020, 07:59 PM   #14
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Everyone knows this.... it's VERY well advertised at nearly every crossing. Status of these trails are also indicated where conditions are posted online and on every printed map I've seen.

Roll the dice, if coming face to face with a train is not enough incentive to stay off an active rail line then you deserve to die.
Well, it doesn't indicate the railroad track and the snowmobile trail are one and the same, that they co-exist, on the map shown above in your post #4. There's no nothing about the railroad tracks on that map.

If a newbie snowmobiler from Massachusetts drove up to Meredith with a brand new $13,000 Arctic Cat and hit the local snowmobile trails, he could be a wee bit surprised when he sees he needs to be driving his sled with 44" wide runners up front, between two railroad rails with an inside width of 48.5".

Most snowmobiles can go 50-mph and faster, but with such a tight fit, 44" within 48.5" ...... you must have to putt putt along at a very slow speed or risk tearing up the sled.

This is an unusual situation ..... am trying to think of an analogy ..... like snowmobiling inside a straight jacket or something ..... maybe like riding a bicycle on a bike lane in down town Manhattan ..... except without the taxi cabs ...... just the two steel rails ..... and the uneven railroad ties, underneath.

...... kaboomba ..... booomba ..... booomba .... booom ...... is a rough ride and no wonder there's never anyone riding the trail/tracks as seen from Scenic Drive north of Weirs Beach ..... using the railroad track trail is probably just done one time, and then never again.

To identify which trails on your internet map have a co-exist with railroad tracks and snowmobile trail, couldn't you superimpose a railroad track on top of the color coded trail line ........ like, why not ....... is simple and shows what is what.
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Old 01-28-2020, 09:34 PM   #15
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Well, it doesn't indicate the railroad track and the snowmobile trail are one and the same, that they co-exist, on the map shown above in your post #4. There's no nothing about the railroad tracks on that map.

If a newbie snowmobiler from Massachusetts drove up to Meredith with a brand new $13,000 Arctic Cat and hit the local snowmobile trails, he could be a wee bit surprised when he sees he needs to be driving his sled with 44" wide runners up front, between two railroad rails with an inside width of 48.5".

Most snowmobiles can go 50-mph and faster, but with such a tight fit, 44" within 48.5" ...... you must have to putt putt along at a very slow speed or risk tearing up the sled.

This is an unusual situation ..... am trying to think of an analogy ..... like snowmobiling inside a straight jacket or something ..... maybe like riding a bicycle on a bike lane in down town Manhattan ..... except without the taxi cabs ...... just the two steel rails ..... and the uneven railroad ties, underneath.

...... kaboomba ..... booomba ..... booomba .... booom ...... is a rough ride and no wonder there's never anyone riding the trail/tracks as seen from Scenic Drive north of Weirs Beach ..... using the railroad track trail is probably just done one time, and then never again.

To identify which trails on your internet map have a co-exist with railroad tracks and snowmobile trail, couldn't you superimpose a railroad track on top of the color coded trail line ........ like, why not ....... is simple and shows what is what.
I guarantee you that if the rail beds have that little snow they would be CLOSED and marked as such. The groomers will not touch those rail beds if there is not enough snow to sufficiently bury those rails. Groomers and drags are far more expensive than a 13K sled and the clubs have an obligation and take it seriously to not be out grooming or marking areas of trail open that do not meet minimum coverage requirements as most of the trail system traverses private property.

Anyone who is riding 50+ miles an hour between a set of exposed rails with minimal snow coverage has a death wish and again, if you are THAT stupid I hope you die. It is generally assumed that anyone who is riding a sled is a "grown up" and as such has the cognitive ability to ascertain what is safe operation and what isn't based on the conditions. Those that can't figure it out get hurt or worse, killed.

Rail beds are no more dangerous than any trail in the woods where at ANY time a hazard can appear without warning. The F&G, NHSA and snowmobile clubs all over emphasize ride responsibly and in control at ALL times.
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Old 01-29-2020, 05:04 AM   #16
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Yes well, the big challenge for snowmobiling in central New Hampshire is not enough natural snow, and more heavy thick strong snow that covers the smooth trails and the railroad trails is what makes it happen, best.

More snow makes for better grooming conditions and better snowmobiling, no question.

Am just suggesting your internet map would be more informative with a railroad symbol superimposed on top of the colored trail lines to inform the map user what's what for snowmobiling by indicating which trails are a co-exist within the railroad track. ......

Your map says not one word about the railroad tracks, as if they do not exist. Like, what's up with these railroad tracks ..... what are they doing here? Is this a snowmobile trail or a railroad track?

...............

Two wheels up front:

The inside width of the two steel railroad rails are 48.5". The outside width of the two snowmobile skis are about 44". Why not attach a 44" 2x4" piece of lumber to the two skis and attach two railroad style 'flange' wheels to this wooden axle and drive the snowmobile over the rails just like a half track vehicle when there's not enough natural snow cover on the tracks and railroad ties.

The railroad trail system is open to snowmobiles from January 6 to March 15 in the lakes region, so having 'two wheels up front' could make it go better when the snow is too little.
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Old 01-29-2020, 12:51 PM   #17
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FLL why don't you take all your suggestions and write a book?

1001 ways to kill yourself for $9.99 or less.

NY Times best seller.

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Old 01-29-2020, 02:07 PM   #18
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FLL why don't you take all your suggestions and write a book?

1001 ways to kill yourself for $9.99 or less.

NY Times best seller.


I know you are trying to be funny but this is not a subject to use for humor. On a personal level it hits very close to home.
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Old 01-29-2020, 02:13 PM   #19
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I know you are trying to be funny but this is not a subject to use for humor. On a personal level it hits very close to home.
Joey, I can't speak for Maxum, but I had the same initial reaction as you before thinking maybe it's a joke on "how to get hurt" rather than suicide.

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Old 01-29-2020, 03:51 PM   #20
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I know you are trying to be funny but this is not a subject to use for humor. On a personal level it hits very close to home.
Context is everything pertaining to my previous comment.

If read as being in poor taste, my sincerest apologies, I certainly did not intend for that to be taken in a way that would minimize a tragedy you personally or anyone else for that matter has experienced regarding suicide.
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Old 01-29-2020, 04:26 PM   #21
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Context is everything pertaining to my previous comment.



If read as being in poor taste, my sincerest apologies, I certainly did not intend for that to be taken in a way that would minimize a tragedy you personally or anyone else for that matter has experienced regarding suicide.


Thank you maxum I really appreciate your apology.


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