Go Back   Winnipesaukee Forum > Winnipesaukee Forums > Boating
Home Forums Gallery Blogs YouTube Channel Classifieds Links Calendar Register FAQDonate Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-22-2007, 01:11 PM   #1
fatlazyless
Senior Member
 
fatlazyless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,436
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 196
Thanked 501 Times in 374 Posts
Default building Winni Sailing

There was a story in yesterday's LaDaSun about the Winnipesaukee Sailing Assoc, based at Fay's Boat Yard and how the number of young sailors has increased. It talks about youth sailing and the big local Laconia-Gilford interest, and two 16' sail boats designed for use by blind and physically handicapped kids. A new sailing building and mooring field is proposed as a joint effort by the State of NH, Winni Sailing Assoc, and contributors at the west end of Ellacoya State Park, I believe in the corner of the beach close to Scenic Drive.

I haven't got the time to post the article now, plus I have to go find yesterday's paper, so will post it later on.
__________________
Down & out, livn that Walmart side of the lake!

Last edited by fatlazyless; 12-24-2007 at 12:56 AM.
fatlazyless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2007, 03:52 PM   #2
LIforrelaxin
Senior Member
 
LIforrelaxin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Long Island, not that one, the one on Winnipesaukee
Posts: 2,265
Thanks: 792
Thanked 653 Times in 354 Posts
Default Community Sailing

Efforts like this are a good thing. I Have lived on Lake Champlain, where sailing is far more popular, there are many clubs on the lake, as well as many community sailing ventures. The City of Burlington, has a very well outfited community boat house, and of course has a couple of boats set up for the handicap. Things like this build a sense of community.
__________________
Life is about how much time you can spend relaxing... I do it on an island that isn't really an island.....
LIforrelaxin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2007, 11:14 PM   #3
fatlazyless
Senior Member
 
fatlazyless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,436
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 196
Thanked 501 Times in 374 Posts
Default

Dug Friday's newspaper out of the kitchen trash...very interesting news item....would like to see it get built....community sailing opens the lake to local kids & adults who don't have a Winnipesaukee boat opportunity.

www.lwsa.org

.................................

Winni sailing sees new facility at Ellacoya

By Michael Kitch
The Laconia Daily Sun

GILFORD-The Lake Winnipesaukee Sailing Association, Inc which has taught sailing to youngsters and sponsored sailing races for 20 years, is planning to build a new facility at Ellacoya State Park and expand its offerings to include adult sailing lessons and an adaptive program, which will introduce sailing to those with physical and mental disabilities.

Tom Mullen, who chairs the association's Sailing Center Development Committee, said yesterday that discussions were underway with the Division of Parks and Recreation of the New Hampshire Department of Resources and Economic Development (DRED) about siting a faciliy at the westernmost edge of the park where the beach meets Scenic Drive. He stressed that negotiations with state officials were still in the early stages, but that the site is being surveyed and the facility designed "with DRED's blessing."

The project, Mullen explained, would include construction of a breakwater, dug-in boat basin, docking facilities, launching ramp and a small building that would double as a classroom in the summer and storehouse in the winter. Mullen said that the association hopes to sail from its new home port in the summer of 2009.

Mullen estimated the cost of the project at $1-million, half of which will be defrayed by in-kind contributions of services and materials from members while the balance will be raised friom corporate sponsors, individuals donors and local communities. He noted that because the association is a charity, all contributions are tax deductible.


"We're going to tap the communities around the lake on the shoulder." Mullen said, adding that each of the eight municipalities bordering the lake would be asked to contribute $10,000 toward the project. The association intends to place warrant articles on the ballots for town meetings in March.

This week Mullen pitched the Gilford Board of Selectmen. "I'm frankly asking for your support," he told the board. Chairman Alice
Boucher expressed concern that "everyone of us is involved in one way or another with the Winnipesaukee Yacht Club and we may have a conflict of interest."

Mullen replied that the association's relationship with the yacht club was "informal, with no ties that bind. I don't think it's remotely a conflict," he said. He said that he would prefer for the board to present a warrant article, but "if you tell us this is a terrible idea, we will submit a petition."

Town Administrator Evans Juris advised the selectmen that the association should present a petitioned warrant article, but reminded them they were bound to offer their recommendation.

Connie Grant applauded the project, but said she could not recommend contributing taxpayers' dollars to it, especially after "cutting a number of other worthy causes to keep the budget to bare bones."

The board, which earlier in the same meeting agreed to defer its recommendations on warrant articles until it meets in January, advised Mullen that the deadline for the petitioned warrant articles falls on January 8.

Founded in 1988, the association has operated from Fay's Boatyard in Smith Cove and the Winnipesaukee Yacht Club at Saunders Bay during June, July and August. 'We've relied on the good graces of Merrill Fay and the yacht club," Mullen said, "but our programs have outgrown their facilities. We're teaching 200 kids to sail each summer and turning away 200 more. With the new center we can enroll 300 students a year."

Mullen said that the adaptive program will be the first of its kind n New Hampshire. The association plans to begin with a pair of 16-foot sailboats equipped with computer assisted controls, which Mullen said enable individuals with the most severe disabilities to enjoy sailing. "The blind, paraplegics even quadriplegics can sail these boats," he said." Sailing offers them a freedom they don't have off the water."

The center will be named in honor of David Adams of Alton, a graduate and instructor of the associations Youth Sailing Academy who raced competitively at the University of New Hampshire and claimed several Junior National and Junior Olympic titles before he lost a valiant struggle with cancer more than a year ago.

''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
The Laconia Daily Sun
Friday Dec 21, 2007

by Michael Kitch
__________________
Down & out, livn that Walmart side of the lake!

Last edited by fatlazyless; 12-24-2007 at 12:45 AM.
fatlazyless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2007, 11:59 PM   #4
fatlazyless
Senior Member
 
fatlazyless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,436
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 196
Thanked 501 Times in 374 Posts
Default

PS

If anyone wants to make a tax deductible contribution before this year ends, they can mail it to

Lake Winnipesaukee Sailing Association
71 Varney Point Rd
Gilford NH 03246

www.lwsa.org


As a member of the waterfront poor, about all I can afford is the $11.75 that's in my wallet but I am happy to donate it. Surely, some of you other water-fronters can top that?
__________________
Down & out, livn that Walmart side of the lake!

Last edited by fatlazyless; 12-24-2007 at 12:43 AM.
fatlazyless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2007, 01:12 AM   #5
jonr
Member
 
jonr's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Gilford, NH
Posts: 25
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Default correct address for donations

Quote:
Originally Posted by fatlazyless View Post
PS

If anyone wants to make a tax deductible contribution before this year ends, they can mail it to

Lake Winnipesaukee Sailing Association
71 Varney Point Rd
Gilford NH 03246
Thank you for your support. Please send any contributions to the LWSA's address below not the address listed above (which is Fay's).

Lake Winnipesaukee Sailing Association, Inc.
PO Box 7047
Gilford NH 03247

or you can donate online at:

http://www.lwsa.org//store/index.php?cPath=3

with some general info about donations/membership at:

http://www.lwsa.org/support.php
jonr is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 12-26-2007, 09:25 PM   #6
fatlazyless
Senior Member
 
fatlazyless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,436
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 196
Thanked 501 Times in 374 Posts
Default

As reported by The Laconia Citizen...

http://www.citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll...720/-1/citizen
''''''''''''''''''
Oops, my link does not work, again. Can someone help me out by posting a working link to the Dec 21 Citizen article, or just google 'ellacoya sailing winnipesaukee.' The artcle says they need $150,000. to purchase the two 16' 'technology laden' sail boats plus other sail boats.

Hey, maybe just a 30 year old Mirrocraft 12' aluminum row boat, the fixer-upper type you find for $150. at yard sales, would be ok for the blind and physically impaired. They work very good with some new paint, leaks repaired, and new wood oars; they put you out on the water, and actually give you probably way more exercise than a $50,000., or so, computer controlled adaptive 16' sailboat. Those little, tired old 12' row boats work good, and besides they give you a sense a being close to the water that you just don't get in a large 16' sailboat.

After all, Ellacoya State Park is the one and only NH state park beach area on Winnipesaukee.
__________________
Down & out, livn that Walmart side of the lake!

Last edited by fatlazyless; 12-27-2007 at 12:50 PM.
fatlazyless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2010, 09:59 AM   #7
lakegirl
Member
 
lakegirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Gilford-Northern MA
Posts: 38
Thanks: 3
Thanked 5 Times in 2 Posts
Default Stop the Sail Boats

This is not a good thing. That beach should be preserved for all to use. This proposal would turn a beautiful state beach into a country club. It is my understanding that the " investor" is using these children as a way to get what he wants.... a place for him to put his expensive toys. Sorry.... look for another way to get a tax deduction. :-) Sorry... had to put in my 2 cents. There is more to this story.
__________________
Lakegirl
Never leave home without your camera
lakegirl is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to lakegirl For This Useful Post:
Herburban (07-13-2011), Never Satisfied (08-13-2011)
Old 09-28-2010, 10:16 AM   #8
nvtngtxpyr
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 32
Thanks: 28
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thumbs down There must be a better site than a public beach

Quote:
Originally Posted by lakegirl View Post
This is not a good thing. That beach should be preserved for all to use. This proposal would turn a beautiful state beach into a country club. It is my understanding that the " investor" is using these children as a way to get what he wants.... a place for him to put his expensive toys. Sorry.... look for another way to get a tax deduction. :-) Sorry... had to put in my 2 cents. There is more to this story.
I agree with you on this. Their representative has stated that they want to control the boat ramp and increase the boat launch fees to help defray their costs. A pretty cynical way to discourage the public use of public land so that they can use and control access to the lake.
__________________
As you slide down the banisters of life
may the splinters never point the wrong way.
nvtngtxpyr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2010, 10:44 AM   #9
ishoot308
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Gilford, NH / Welch Island
Posts: 4,303
Thanks: 1,532
Thanked 3,098 Times in 1,193 Posts
Default Do Your Homework!

Quote:
Originally Posted by lakegirl View Post
This is not a good thing. That beach should be preserved for all to use. This proposal would turn a beautiful state beach into a country club. It is my understanding that the " investor" is using these children as a way to get what he wants.... a place for him to put his expensive toys. Sorry.... look for another way to get a tax deduction. :-) Sorry... had to put in my 2 cents. There is more to this story.
You need to do your research before making a comment like this. I have seen the renditions. The State Park and it's beach is not being touched. Only the area directly in front of the existing bath house in front of the RV park is being utilized. The current State Park beach is not being touched!! An improved public ramp and public dock is planned. (There is currently no public dock there now and the ramp (if you want to call it that) is almost unusable! WOW such a bad thing to happen, giving more and better public access!!

I think that your comment that the "investor is using these children as a way to get what he wants.... a place for him to put his expensive toys" is ridiculous and a disgusting comment to make in a public forum. I personally know the "investor" and I can assure you that he does not need a place to put his toys. He is a generous man who has done a lot for the sailing program on the lake. This is being done clearly out of his love for sailing and helping the less fortunate, the disabled and even the "Wounded Warriors" program are now involved.

The sailing program has been on the lake since 1988, they have simply outgrown the current facility and are turning away more kids than ever.

You need to do more research before publicly bashing someone who is trying to do a good thing!

Dan
ishoot308 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to ishoot308 For This Useful Post:
Lucky1 (09-28-2010)
Old 09-28-2010, 11:01 AM   #10
fatlazyless
Senior Member
 
fatlazyless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,436
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 196
Thanked 501 Times in 374 Posts
Default

Here's the state website for www.nhstateparks.com/ellacoya.html. It's waterfront location places it directly onto an open 'big water' area of the lake. Extremely scenic what with its long sandy beach, volleyball court, recreational vehicle campground, large brook that seperates the beach area from the rv area, and terrific views of the open water, islands, & mountains.

The existing boat launch, if one calls it a boat launch, probably requires a four wheel drive vehicle with large tires, and a light weight boat and trailer because it is an unimproved boat launch on the extreme south end of the property. Launching means dragging a trailer across a natural sandy beach and into the lake with no paved ramp....just the sandy beach...to slide a boat into the lake. It is more accurately considered a graded dirt road that stops at the natural sandy beach than to consider it to be a boat launch.

With what has been happening at the Ames farm.....who knows....maybe the state might wish to reconstruct the very flat, and devoid of trees, rv campground into a state boat launch and vehicle-trailer, asphalt paved parking lot. But, this is total conjecture and probably years down the road, with all the pros & cons to be considered and argued?
__________________
Down & out, livn that Walmart side of the lake!
fatlazyless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2010, 01:52 PM   #11
jrc
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Hollis/Gilford
Posts: 2,688
Thanks: 33
Thanked 437 Times in 247 Posts
Default

The original thread is almost three years old? Is this still pending or has something been resolved?

What brought this thread back from the dead?
jrc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2010, 01:57 PM   #12
lakegirl
Member
 
lakegirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Gilford-Northern MA
Posts: 38
Thanks: 3
Thanked 5 Times in 2 Posts
Default Keep Ellacoya the way it is.

I have done my research on this. :-) I suggest you do the same. The developer has not been honest about his intentions. He is planning to build a 3 story function type facility that will host weddings etc. The beach as it is will never be the same. It is also my understanding that he wants to control the boat ramp. The Ellacoya State Beach is a beautful State Beach... that belongs to us! Let's keep it that way. :-) There is a large group of individuals that have joined forces to keep this project from happening. If you are interested in helping.... please let me know.
__________________
Lakegirl
Never leave home without your camera
lakegirl is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to lakegirl For This Useful Post:
Herburban (07-13-2011), Never Satisfied (08-13-2011), nvtngtxpyr (09-28-2010)
Old 09-28-2010, 02:05 PM   #13
fatlazyless
Senior Member
 
fatlazyless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,436
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 196
Thanked 501 Times in 374 Posts
Default

Here's what was being proposed back in 2007: www.lwsa.org/sailingcenter/archive/2007/sailin...dang it....not too helpfull

Hello Lakegirl....cannot seem to find any news.....how about a couple of keys words or names ...to aid in locating the latest 2010 www.lwsa.org at Ellacoya State Beach & RV Park proposed sailboat, local youth, teaching facility? thanks! Just reading through these posts here....and it sounds like the proposed local youth sailing school building would be built on the south end of the property, and in front of the 37 campsite, recreational vehicle campground, as opposed to the beach and swimming area up at the north end. Ellacoya State Beach & RV Park includes 65.5 (sixty five & one half) acres of land, with two seperated waterfront beach areas, split into two beach areas by a large in-flowing brook, and different shoreline geography. Hope this helps...
__________________
Down & out, livn that Walmart side of the lake!

Last edited by fatlazyless; 09-28-2010 at 02:36 PM.
fatlazyless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2010, 03:08 PM   #14
ishoot308
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Gilford, NH / Welch Island
Posts: 4,303
Thanks: 1,532
Thanked 3,098 Times in 1,193 Posts
Default Really??

Quote:
Originally Posted by lakegirl View Post
I have done my research on this. :-) I suggest you do the same. The developer has not been honest about his intentions. He is planning to build a 3 story function type facility that will host weddings etc. The beach as it is will never be the same. It is also my understanding that he wants to control the boat ramp. The Ellacoya State Beach is a beautful State Beach... that belongs to us! Let's keep it that way. :-) There is a large group of individuals that have joined forces to keep this project from happening. If you are interested in helping.... please let me know.
Well you obviously have not done ANY research. Like I said before, I have seen and have a copy of the rendition drawings for the "Adams Memorial Sailing Center". It is a single story open concept pavillion type building. It is not three stories as you have stated in your post. The Ellacoya State Park and it's current beach does not get touched, so once again you are misstating the facts. The facility is trying to be self reliant and self funded so yes renting out the pavilion for weddings etc certainly would be a useful option would it not??.., or maybe you would feel better if your tax dollars paid for all of it...

In regards to the boat ramp, what boat ramp!?? There's nothing there now! Anything that would be built would only be a welcomed sight to the many boaters looking for a place to launch especially since the demise of the public launch at Ames Farm!!

Do you honestly believe that the Adams Memorial Sailing Center is being built so the "investor" has a storage facilty for his own personal toys as stated in your initial post??... Do you realize how illogical that sounds??...

Dan
ishoot308 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2010, 03:17 PM   #15
lakegirl
Member
 
lakegirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Gilford-Northern MA
Posts: 38
Thanks: 3
Thanked 5 Times in 2 Posts
Default

FLL... the proposed building will be in the general area where the campers go ( near the existing bath house building). I am looking at a current set of drawings for the function facilitity/pavillion. It is huge. There are plans for a mooring field and boat docks. This will change the whole dynamic of Ellacoya. I can only imagine how much traffic and noise this will generate. Not to mention how much it will change the natural beauty of this part of the lake.

I have been photographing this area for years. I can't imagine ellacoya being filled with boats....and sailboats. To sum it up....it is just wrong.
__________________
Lakegirl
Never leave home without your camera
lakegirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2010, 03:36 PM   #16
ishoot308
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Gilford, NH / Welch Island
Posts: 4,303
Thanks: 1,532
Thanked 3,098 Times in 1,193 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lakegirl View Post
FLL... the proposed building will be in the general area where the campers go ( near the existing bath house building). I am looking at a current set of drawings for the function facilitity/pavillion. It is huge. There are plans for a mooring field and boat docks. This will change the whole dynamic of Ellacoya. I can only imagine how much traffic and noise this will generate. Not to mention how much it will change the natural beauty of this part of the lake.

I have been photographing this area for years. I can't imagine ellacoya being filled with boats....and sailboats. To sum it up....it is just wrong.
What happened to the three story building you stated in your previous post?? Now it's a one story pavillion?? If you can't win them over with facts scare them over with fiction!

Heaven forbid there are sail boats in the water in front of Ellacoya!

Sheesh, where and when does it end!
ishoot308 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2010, 05:45 PM   #17
lakegirl
Member
 
lakegirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Gilford-Northern MA
Posts: 38
Thanks: 3
Thanked 5 Times in 2 Posts
Default building

Ishoot

One of his plans (as presented at a meeting) was a three story building. Depending on who he meets with .... his story changes. I was just emailed plans which show it as the one story building. So with that said... The current plans show the large one story building. Who knows when that will change again.

From this point on... the focus will be how to stop the project. Period.
__________________
Lakegirl
Never leave home without your camera
lakegirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2010, 05:50 PM   #18
tntm_71we
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 30
Thanks: 0
Thanked 23 Times in 9 Posts
Default Proposed Sailing Center At Ellacoya

Dear Fellow Posters,

I must apologize for not having involved myself prior to now as this site does a terrific job of addressing issues of great interest to me and to my fellow members of the Lake Winnipesauke Sailing Center. I promise to be more involved from now on.

There was a posting on the site this morning by lakegirl, #7 under "building Winni Sailing", followed almost immediately by another post from nvtngtxpyr. Both posts, especially the one from lakegirl took a number of unpleasant and grossly inaccurate pot shots at me and at our Lake Winnipesaukee Sailing Association's efforts to locate a sailing center at Ellacoya State Park.

I really don't care about the personal attacks, but I do respectfully object to our plans for a new Sailing Center an Ellacoya being misrepresented. The proposed building will be a single storied structure except for a portion on the end that will be two levels high. The complex will add a badly needed dimension to life on the waters of our treasured lake, and it will offer increased, but controlled public access to the lake for boating activities that are clean and green and fully sustainable. We will teach children and adults how to sail and we will offer an adaptive sailing program for people with disabilities. We will put people who are sight impaired and who are paralyzed from profound injuries and birth defects out on the water giving them a sense of freedom from the constraints they encounter on land. We will give their lives new meaning. One of our strategic partners will be the Wounded Warrior Project and another will be the Easter Seals Society of New Hampshire. The Gunstock Adaptive Skiing program staff has agreed to be active in our new facility along with Ability Plus and Disabled Sports USA.

The new center will be named the LWSA/Adams Memorial Sailing Center in memory of one of our first sailing school students more than twenty years ago when we first began our program. David Adams, whose parents still live in Alton, went on to sail competitively at UNH winning several Junior National titles. He even came back to teach sailing to youngsters in our school program. Sadly, David was fighting a terminal illness for many of the years he was with our organization, but we will keep his spirit alive by naming the new facility in his honor.

The LWSA/Adams Memorial Sailing Center is still very much in the planning stages. Although the Parks and Recreation Division of DRED has given our project a green light to develop our plans and to announce our intentions, we are still a distance away from being approved to begin construction. We have met with our abutters at Lake Shore Park and we have addressed a number of their concerns, but understandably, there is a bit of a "not in my backyard" reaction to our plans and I have no doubt that "lakegirl" is a resident of that community or a friend of one of the owners. I am also happy to say that there are many supporters of our plans that live in this unique community as well. Lake Shore Park has nothing to fear from the new sailing center other than they might now have to share the beauty and the opportunities provided by this unique resource with a few more people than have been there in the past.

We will remain sensitive to all of Lake Shore Park's legitimate concerns, but Ellacoya belongs to the people of the entire State of New Hampshire -- it is not Lake Shore Park's private domain. For most of the Park's residents, the new Sailing Center will offer an attractive amenity for children and adults alike. When and if our plans are finally approved, the LWSA's use of this resource will be reasonable and sensitive to all of its neighbors concerns, but we will not stand by and allow anyone to misrepresent our group's plans and aspirations. I have spent the last five years looking for a site for this center and testing the waters to be sure there's a need for what we offer. Ellacoya is the right location and now is the right time to build this important new addition to what the area has to offer residents and visitors alike.

This past year we taught over 200 area children how to sail out of logistically tight quarters and in an area of the lake that is far from ideal, if not downright dangerous for the children involved. We scholarship children into our program if there's a need for assistance. We have a demand from adults who want to learn how to sail, but we have no facility suitable for this purpose. Unfortunately we do have a demand for an adaptive program, but we lack the equipment and a location. The LWSA is serious about its commitment to bring such a facility to Lake Winnipesaukee. We will be an asset to the entire lake as well as an asset to Lake Shore Park. We will meet anyone, anywhere and at any time who wants to see our plans and learn more about our programs. I can be reached by phone at 603-759-2510 or on line at tntmullen@owlsnestgolf.com . A pamphlet on the Center and a photo that sums up everything I said in two words -- "GONE SAILING!' are attached. Need I say more!

Sincerely,

Thomas N.T. Mullen, President
Lake Winnipesaukee Sailing Association, Inc.
A 501(c)(3) Charitable Corporation www.lwsa.org
Attached Images
File Type: pdf amended2010lwsabrochureppdfformat.pdf (384.0 KB, 707 views)
File Type: pdf Gone Sailing Photo.pdf (1.36 MB, 225 views)
tntm_71we is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to tntm_71we For This Useful Post:
Ironfish (09-28-2010), ishoot308 (09-28-2010), islandboater (08-05-2013), Lucky1 (09-30-2010), no-engine (09-30-2010)
Old 09-28-2010, 06:49 PM   #19
fatlazyless
Senior Member
 
fatlazyless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,436
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 196
Thanked 501 Times in 374 Posts
Default

From what I know about the beach and grass field/tree area in the vicinity of the rv campground's large, seasonal bathroom/showerhouse, that seems like an excellent spot to create a sailing school. On a scale from 1-10, it gets a 10, all things considered.

It is an extremely picturesque spot, and at the same time as a state beach & rv park, the beach area and seasonal bathroom/showerhouse building and immediate land does not give the user-public very much use. It is an under utilized piece of Winni waterfront state land, and building a sailing school sure seems like an excellent use for that spot.

The sailing beach in front of the rv campground is not as nice as the Ellacoya State Beach swimming beach, about 100-300 yards up the shore and across the brook, and is much narrower in width. It is relatively narrow, and slants back to zero width as it approaches the Poor Farm Brook, that seperates the sailing beach from the swimming beach. Someone sometime, many years ago, built a poured concrete retainer wall that seperates the sandy sailing beach from the flat grassy in-field area that surrounds the bathroom/showerhouse building. The concrete waterfront retainer wall must be about a continuous 200 yards long, and about three to four feet high. The area transitions from green grass in-filled with some nice trees, to the retainer wall, to the narrow sandy beach, to the big wide open Lake Winnipesaukee.

One has to love that spot for it definately has to be a spot to catch the wind.....talk about a spot that is home to the wind....that location has to be a good windy area.
__________________
Down & out, livn that Walmart side of the lake!
fatlazyless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2010, 08:53 PM   #20
RI Swamp Yankee
Senior Member
 
RI Swamp Yankee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: North Kingstown RI
Posts: 688
Thanks: 143
Thanked 83 Times in 55 Posts
Default

Does NH allow building private facilities on state park land?
__________________
Gene ~ aka "another RI Swamp Yankee"
RI Swamp Yankee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2010, 11:00 PM   #21
lakegirl
Member
 
lakegirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Gilford-Northern MA
Posts: 38
Thanks: 3
Thanked 5 Times in 2 Posts
Wink

Mr. Mullen....

I have grown up on this great lake. I like many other people do not approve of what you are proposing. That is my right. As an abutter of your proposed facility.... I also have the right to speak my mind.

As one person.... my voice probably wont be heard....but as a group... not just Lake Shore Park...but people that camp there and have for many years...residents on Shore Road and other residents of the town... or voices will speak volumes. We may not win....be will fight to the end. Again, that is our right. We want to preserve what is there.
__________________
Lakegirl
Never leave home without your camera
lakegirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2010, 11:03 PM   #22
Ironfish
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 24
Thanks: 1
Thanked 32 Times in 8 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lakegirl View Post
I can only imagine how much traffic and noise this will generate. Not to mention how much it will change the natural beauty of this part of the lake.
Ah yes, those noisy sailboats! .... and there is nothing more offensive than looking out upon a group of small sailboats gliding through the water. The kids laughing, as they drift away from the dock, will probably warrant a new noise ordinance. In fact, we should probably ban all traffic and swimming at Ellacoya, so that your personal enjoyment of the lake takes place unimpeded.

With all due respect Lakegirl, it's a public lake. I don't know all of the facts, but the concept strikes me as a wonderful public benefit (assuming it is open to the public) with an activity that is about as environmentally friendly as they come.

Assuming sound planning to mitigate the impacts of the additional public use, I wish this group the best.
Ironfish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2010, 04:01 AM   #23
VitaBene
Senior Member
 
VitaBene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Moultonborough
Posts: 3,122
Thanks: 1,250
Thanked 1,375 Times in 688 Posts
Default Nimby

Lakegirl, your case seems to be one of not in my backyard more than anything else.

If you have a more legitimate gripe than the ones you have presented, by all means, lawyer up and start throwing down roadblocks. You know the outcome already- the lawyers get rich, the project gets built and your wallet gets a lot lighter.

It seems like a great project and a good place for it. I love seeing the kids out sailing.
VitaBene is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to VitaBene For This Useful Post:
Meredith lady (07-22-2011)
Old 09-29-2010, 08:57 AM   #24
Rattlesnake Gal
Senior Member
 
Rattlesnake Gal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Southern NH
Posts: 5,234
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 1,401
Thanked 1,323 Times in 467 Posts
Talking LWSA on NH Chronicle

Winnipesaukee Sailing School on NH Chronicle

Nice to see you here again Lakegirl!
Rattlesnake Gal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2010, 09:52 AM   #25
OCDACTIVE
Senior Member
 
OCDACTIVE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Fort Myers FL / Moultonboro
Posts: 1,045
Thanks: 444
Thanked 573 Times in 178 Posts
Default Thank you Mr. Mullen

I personally want to say that I applaud what Mr. Mullen and his group is doing and trying to accomplish. This is a great organization with the best of intentions in mind. I and SBONH - Safe Boaters of New Hampshire, has full confidence in their plans going forward and will continue to fully support their goals.

Please keep up the GREAT work and let us know what else we can do to assist.
__________________
Have you had your Vessel Inspected Yet?
OCDACTIVE is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to OCDACTIVE For This Useful Post:
VitaBene (09-29-2010)
Old 09-29-2010, 11:00 AM   #26
ishoot308
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Gilford, NH / Welch Island
Posts: 4,303
Thanks: 1,532
Thanked 3,098 Times in 1,193 Posts
Default Nice!

Quote:
Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE View Post
I personally want to say that I applaud what Mr. Mullen and his group is doing and trying to accomplish. This is a great organization with the best of intentions in mind. I and SBONH - Safe Boaters of New Hampshire, has full confidence in their plans going forward and will continue to fully support their goals.

Please keep up the GREAT work and let us know what else we can do to assist.
It's nice to see SBONH supporting the sailing community on the lake!! So much more can be accomplished when ALL boaters, whether they are performance, power, sail, or paddle working together for the common goal of safely sharing the lake.

Dan
ishoot308 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2010, 12:49 PM   #27
Tobey
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 7
Thanks: 2
Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post
Default What about the CAMPERS

I have been going to the State Beach for years. How will all the RV campers enjoy the peace and serinity of the area if there is continual traffic and noise from weddings and other functions?
How will the campers enjoy the use of the lakeferont with respect to tying the boats up?
How will you get sail boats in there? You have to go out 70+ feet to get 3 feet of water in some spots. The brook that feeds into there is ever changing the depth and "Sandscape" of the area?
I am certainly not opposed to any program such as you offer. I am opposed to what it will do to the State beach and the current users of that area.
Also, as a boater and sailor, I can not imagine this being a desirable area. There is no protective cove and the north West wind rips thru there continually. With a 3 foot draft (or less) you will find less than 6 Inches of water in the continual swells. I have to ask, did you do your homework in researching this spot?

I will be calling and writing the head of the State parks to voice my concern.

Thanks for listening
Tobey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2010, 01:08 PM   #28
Excalibur
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Gilford,NH is where I would like to be and Southborough, MA is where I have to be
Posts: 79
Thanks: 11
Thanked 8 Times in 1 Post
Default Community Sailing

While in college I was a member of community boating in Boston on the Charles river and I think this is great opportunity for the public to have a greater access to the lake then to just sit on the beach and enjoying only its beauty.

I am sure the newbies may want to take some shelter in Smiths Cove on those big NW Blow days.

http://www.community-boating.org/
Excalibur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2010, 01:22 PM   #29
fatlazyless
Senior Member
 
fatlazyless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,436
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 196
Thanked 501 Times in 374 Posts
Default

For those not too familiar with the sailboat beach area, directly in front of the rv campground's toilet/shower building. It is a sandy beach, about 600' long by maybe 40' deep that tapers down to zero feet deep up by the brook outlet. At the north end immediately abutting the 5' chain link fence that seperates Ellacoya State Beach from www.lakeshorepark.org, there is a very umimproved, sandy beach boat launch. The sailing beach has no dock, no ramps, no rafts, no swim or boat improvement what-so-ever and no boat facilities. It is a very undeveloped natural beach and has probably been like that for many, many years, like maybe 40 to 100-years, since the concrete retainer wall was built, or something.

There's a few picnic tables out front of the toilet/shower building for use by the rv campers. "Registered Campers Only" is what the sign says for anyone who walks across the Poor Farm Brook to walk from the the swimming beach to the rv area - sailing beach.

With what's happening down at Ames Farm Inn, also in Gilford, with regards to the limited use of its' boat launch and parking, maybe the state is considering Ellacoya for a triple play of rv camping-sailing-boat launch. With Ellacoya's 65.5 acres of land in total, it sure looks like the rv campground side of the property has the space for all three uses. The open field of rv campsites www.nhstateparks.com/ellacoya.html has 37 campsites, all with water-sewer-electricity hook-ups and costs $47/night.

As a side note, one can stay at any one of 23 different Forest Service campgrounds in the White Mt Nat'l Forest, New Hampshire & Maine, for just $16/night, but they do not have any hook-ups.

If I were in the public municipal boat launch business, the very first thing I'd do would be to install one of those green steel fee deposit tubes, similar to what the federal government uses in the White Mt Nat'l Forest. Charge a low price, with honor system payments, taking payments 24-7-365 as the pay tube is concreted into the ground, and everyone becomes a winner; the boat launch, the sailboat school, the fishermen, the trailer-boaters, the rv campground and the Lake Shore residential park abutter neighbors; one great big happy boater family!

Hope this helps!
......

Anyone have a link to a website that explores the history and beginnings of Ellacoya as a NH State Beach & RV Campground? How did the state acquire Ellacoya? Did the state buy it from Chief Ellacoya for 10-cigars and a case of Jenkins rye whiskey, or what? Who was Ellacoya? How did the Ellacoya 65.5 acre waterfront property originally come to be a state facility?
__________________
Down & out, livn that Walmart side of the lake!

Last edited by fatlazyless; 09-29-2010 at 08:03 PM.
fatlazyless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2010, 08:41 AM   #30
no-engine
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: West side Winnipesaukee, Lakes Region
Posts: 516
Thanks: 20
Thanked 52 Times in 40 Posts
Default Sailing!

Sailing from childhood to whenever.... such a valuable life experience!

As kids, we were exposed to sailing as a family, individually at lessons, and all the happenings. We are now 60+ in age; when we sail again, even though infrequently now, it has become second nature to take a tiller or wheel under sail, and it was like walking - something one does not forget. In addition to sailing & maintenance, we were taught respect of others on the water. It was on Atlantic Coast.

One sibling is very active & involved on the board of directors of a non-profit corporation whose mission is to make it possible for handicapped to have sailing experiences - the amount of handicap is of no concern to them. They receive donations, maybe of boats, do a little work on them; then sell them which becomes part of their working funds. In summer season, they have staff on payroll.

So therefore, I say go for it! BTW: I have lived in Lakes Region for over 30 years; and sailed on Lake!
no-engine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2010, 11:33 AM   #31
tntm_71we
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 30
Thanks: 0
Thanked 23 Times in 9 Posts
Default Thanks For Chiming In.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by lakegirl View Post
Mr. Mullen....

I have grown up on this great lake. I like many other people do not approve of what you are proposing. That is my right. As an abutter of your proposed facility.... I also have the right to speak my mind.

As one person.... my voice probably wont be heard....but as a group... not just Lake Shore Park...but people that camp there and have for many years...residents on Shore Road and other residents of the town... or voices will speak volumes. We may not win....be will fight to the end. Again, that is our right. We want to preserve what is there.
Dear Lakegirl,

Lakegirl, you are exercising your right to speak your mind and I would be the last person to ever try to infringe on that right. The folks at Lake Shore Park (LSP) have been there for decades and clearly our new Sailing Center will change the landscape. I understand and respect the concerns of those residents and the LWSA will do all it possibly can to have its impact on Lake Shore Park be a positive one.

I don't see us impacting the LSP residents' privacy very much because I don't think folks move there with privacy as one of their primary objectives. Every time I've been inside LSP, it appears as though it's one big, happy summer camp with kids everywhere, and I mean everywhere. The presence of LSP and the large number of youngsters present on that property is one of the reasons the LWSA wants to have its Youth Sailing School at Ellacoya. We'll have a built in source of students and our programs will add a new and very positive dimension to life in that community, not just for the youngsters, but for the adults as well.

Ellacoya is not a perfect venue for our needs. There will be days when our sailing activities will have to occur on dry land as there is much we can do to teach sailing without being on the water. Over our nearly 30-year history teaching sailing, we have learned to deal with situations in which the wind is too high and too low. We can tow our boats to sheltered areas when the winds are too high and for years we have been towing our boats out of Smith Cove in order to find wind. As for water depths, Ellacoya is ideal. Our boats are all shallow draft with drop down centerboards or dagger boards. With the boards up, we draw less than a foot and with boards down, we don't draw more than three feet. Another plus feature of the waters off Ellacoya, if a boat goes over, in most cases a student can stand on the bottom and get back into the boat.

As for the campers, the LWSA intends to incorporate their needs and desires into our logistics and I have no doubt they will find us to be pleasant co-habitants of that lake frontage. First of all, we'll be providing the campers with a viable new alternative for launching their boats. They will actually have a decent ramp with a dock adjacent to the ramp so they can launch a boat and then have something to tie it up to while they go park. LSP should like this because a common complaint has been the fact that many times, newly launched boats drift accross the LSP floating swim line while the boat owner was off parking the trailer. That won't happen anymore!

Secondly, we may be able to provide reliable moorings and or docks for the RV Park residents while they are staying at Ellacoya and they will all be able to make use of our programs. I can see the day when many of the park's RV campers will arrange to have their visits coincide with a particular activity that will be going on at the Sailing Center.

Lazygirl, I have complete respect for your right to voice your opinions and to stand fast to your principles. I hope I can direct your energies at some point in time into support for what the LWSA is proposing and if you keep an open mind, I think we'll have a decent shot at accomplishing this objective. If we can't swing you over to our way of thinking, I promise you we'll listen carefully and thoughtfully to all of your concerns and then try to address them as best we can as we structure our programs.

Lastly, someone asked how can a private business use State of NH land. The answer is simple. The LWSA is not a private business, it is a public, not for profit 501(c)(3) entity. The precise manner in which the LWSA will have the opportunity to use State land is yet to be resolved, but we will most likely have something like a Special Use Permit with many conditions that we must adhere to in order to have the privilege of being in that location. There are many similiar arrangements currently in place elsewhere around New Hampshire so we will not be breaking new ground.

I am available by phone if anyone wishes to contact me to discuss our plans and we will be looking for lots of help getting the facility built. Please call my cell phone at 603-759-2510 and thanks for lending an eye to this message and an ear to our need for assistance. I can also be reached by e-mail at tntmullen@owlsnestgolf.com .

Regards,

Tom Mullen
tntm_71we is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to tntm_71we For This Useful Post:
ishoot308 (09-30-2010), Lucky1 (09-30-2010), Reilly (10-24-2010)
Old 09-30-2010, 11:50 AM   #32
tntm_71we
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 30
Thanks: 0
Thanked 23 Times in 9 Posts
Default Your Concerns Are Valid

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobey View Post
I have been going to the State Beach for years. How will all the RV campers enjoy the peace and serinity of the area if there is continual traffic and noise from weddings and other functions?
How will the campers enjoy the use of the lakeferont with respect to tying the boats up?
How will you get sail boats in there? You have to go out 70+ feet to get 3 feet of water in some spots. The brook that feeds into there is ever changing the depth and "Sandscape" of the area?
I am certainly not opposed to any program such as you offer. I am opposed to what it will do to the State beach and the current users of that area.
Also, as a boater and sailor, I can not imagine this being a desirable area. There is no protective cove and the north West wind rips thru there continually. With a 3 foot draft (or less) you will find less than 6 Inches of water in the continual swells. I have to ask, did you do your homework in researching this spot?

I will be calling and writing the head of the State parks to voice my concern.

Thanks for listening
Hello Tobey,

For the last two years since I became aware that Ellacoya might be an option, I have been carefully studying the wind patterns and the water depths at the Ellacoya site. Our waterfront plan carefully takes the northwest winds into consideration as well as the north and northeast winds.

Our marine engineer has designed what's called a wave fence that will shelter the waterfront from these north winds yet allow for the open flow of sand and silt laden water back and forth across the waterfronts of Ellacoya and Lake Shore Park. I live all summer on Welch Island and each day as I travelled across to go to work, I would swing down to Ellacoya and record the wind conditions. There were only four days during the eight weeks we ran our program this summer that I would have been reluctant to have our instructors out on the water with our students. But even on those days, there were opportunities to tow our boats up into the lee of Welch Island or around into the lee of Lake Shore Park over by Ames Farm Inn so that we could be sheltered from north winds.

Board of Directors and I have been looking for the "Perfect" site for more than ten years and we finally concluded that there was no such thing out there, not to mention the cost of purchasing an appropriate privately owned site that would easily have run upwards of $1 Million.

Thanks for your interest and your concerns are duly noted.

Regards,

Tom Mullen
tntm_71we is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to tntm_71we For This Useful Post:
Reilly (10-24-2010)
Old 09-30-2010, 01:05 PM   #33
Lucky1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Moultonborough and FL
Posts: 459
Thanks: 318
Thanked 123 Times in 53 Posts
Default

My daughter was a member of LWSA for several summers. She loved to sail and later wrote her college application essay on sailing. It was entitled, "Feel My Joy." She went on to sail on the team at her college. It was a wonderful expereince for her. I feel quite sure that she might well get that laser out of the garage and back into the lake if there was a place where she and others could go to enjoy this wonderful sport. It is sometimes to solitary I think to do it alone.

I don't know the facts but hope it all works out for everyone. We need good wholesome activities for young people at the lake. Heck I might even get back into simple sailing.
Lucky1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2010, 01:54 PM   #34
Tobey
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 7
Thanks: 2
Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post
Default

Mr. Mullen,
Aside from that I understand you may want functions and parking for up to 75 vehicles.
If I am there on a 2 week vacation i certainly do not want vehicles coming and going all the time. Where would you park all those cars?
Also, I and the fellow campers would not want to listen to bands on weekends or other times. Is ay that because I understand you may rent the hall out for various functions to offset costs. We'll only be a few feet away in our campers.
There must be another spot. how about the other end of the state beach?
Tobey is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Tobey For This Useful Post:
Herburban (07-13-2011), lakegirl (10-02-2010)
Old 09-30-2010, 06:54 PM   #35
VitaBene
Senior Member
 
VitaBene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Moultonborough
Posts: 3,122
Thanks: 1,250
Thanked 1,375 Times in 688 Posts
Default Shared access

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobey View Post
Mr. Mullen,
Aside from that I understand you may want functions and parking for up to 75 vehicles.
If I am there on a 2 week vacation i certainly do not want vehicles coming and going all the time. Where would you park all those cars?
Also, I and the fellow campers would not want to listen to bands on weekends or other times. Is ay that because I understand you may rent the hall out for various functions to offset costs. We'll only be a few feet away in our campers.
There must be another spot. how about the other end of the state beach?
Tobey,

Like the rest of the lake, we need to share the resources. I find it interesting that you state what you do and don't want to happen around you at the NH owned campground. If you want that level of control, you may need to look into buying a spot at one of the many campgrounds around the lake.
VitaBene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2010, 05:43 PM   #36
lakegirl
Member
 
lakegirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Gilford-Northern MA
Posts: 38
Thanks: 3
Thanked 5 Times in 2 Posts
Wink Sail Away....

1. How many other state beaches are there on Lake Winnipesaukee that are similar to Ellacoya?

2. Why does a sailing club need to take over part of a State Beach? I'm sorry but there are other spots more suitable for this. There are residents very close to the proposed building. If you had a house and suddenly a function facility goes in....and bands start playing every weekend you would fight this as hard as you could.

3. Mr. Mullen went to a meeting and told a story (there are minutes from this meeting) about what this facility would be. Then... his story changed. My guess is he tried to get the support of the locals by flat out lying. That is wrong. That shows me the kind of individual we are dealing with.

4. This sailing program might be a wonderful thing.... but to construct this on state land ... I'm sorry I like several hundred residents... I don't like it.

Not that any of you will get this or even care... but I was at Ellacoya a few weeks ago in the early morning. Sitting there... watching the sunrise and the loons swim around. It was breathtaking. As residents we would be crazy to want to support losing that view and have a bunch of boats and sailboats replace the untouched beauty that is there.

We have formed a group of several hundred residents... we will fight this as hard as possible. That is our right.

Mr. Mullen.... you had your chance to speak. Now we will have ours.
__________________
Lakegirl
Never leave home without your camera
lakegirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2010, 07:55 AM   #37
fatlazyless
Senior Member
 
fatlazyless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,436
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 196
Thanked 501 Times in 374 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lakegirl View Post
1. How many other state beaches are there on Lake Winnipesaukee that are similar to Ellacoya?
The towns of Moultonborough, Center Harbor, Meredith, Laconia, Gilford, Tuftonboro, & Wolfeboro all have relatively large town beaches on Lake Winnipesaukee that are the property of each town. The State of NH has just one relatively large beach property on Lake Winnipesaukee and that is www.nhstateparks.com/ellacoya.html, which has a total of 65.5 acres which includes a swimming beach area, and a somewhat natural and undeveloped recreational vehicle campground, beach area, with the exception of a large toilet/shower seasonal building, an undeveloped trailer boat launch, ramp area and dirt driveway with circular drive approach area, and an aproximately 200-yard x 3-4' high, poured concrete retainer wall that is very close to the beach, along with some picnic tables, and a few trees out front the toilet/shower building.

So, on all of Lake Winnipesaukee, Ellacoya in Gilford is the one and only state beach area. There's just one, Ellacoya, there are no other state beaches.

It would be nice to have a brief history on the origin and use of Ellacoya along with its' immediate neighbor www.lakeshorepark.org and a number of photographs, so people can see what is being discussed.

For a sailing school, the Ellacoya location is simply supercalifragilisticexpialidocious what with its' wide open Lake Winnipesaukee water area, views, and windy available wind. As soon as it is up and sailing, it will be a super-duper popular spot for lots of people, young and old, who wish to learn sailing in a totally beautifull location. Sorry, LakeGirl, but it looks like it will be time to start sharing the wealth of that spot thanks to all the people at www.lwsa.org and New Hampshire State Parks.
__________________
Down & out, livn that Walmart side of the lake!

Last edited by fatlazyless; 10-02-2010 at 08:37 AM.
fatlazyless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2010, 08:43 AM   #38
lakegirl
Member
 
lakegirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Gilford-Northern MA
Posts: 38
Thanks: 3
Thanked 5 Times in 2 Posts
Default

FLL....

This state beach is already a beautiful State Park that is open for the residents of NH to enjoy. Why take away that untouched beauty? A sailing school is a great idea... it is the location I/we have a problem with.

One other concern that just came to me. I like many members of the Gilford community participate in the Timberman Tri. I can't imagine how this event will be able to continue if this proposal goes through. This is a huge event that has become part of our community. Many local charities benefit from having this event at Ellacoya.


I would be happy to post pictures of Ellacoya for people to see.
__________________
Lakegirl
Never leave home without your camera
lakegirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2010, 08:58 AM   #39
edjr
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default how did the state get the ellacoya property?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fatlazyless View Post
For those not too familiar with the sailboat beach area, directly in front of the rv campground's toilet/shower building. It is a sandy beach, about 600' long by maybe 40' deep that tapers down to zero feet deep up by the brook outlet. At the north end immediately abutting the 5' chain link fence that seperates Ellacoya State Beach from www.lakeshorepark.org, there is a very umimproved, sandy beach boat launch. The sailing beach has no dock, no ramps, no rafts, no swim or boat improvement what-so-ever and no boat facilities. It is a very undeveloped natural beach and has probably been like that for many, many years, like maybe 40 to 100-years, since the concrete retainer wall was built, or something.

There's a few picnic tables out front of the toilet/shower building for use by the rv campers. "Registered Campers Only" is what the sign says for anyone who walks across the Poor Farm Brook to walk from the the swimming beach to the rv area - sailing beach.

With what's happening down at Ames Farm Inn, also in Gilford, with regards to the limited use of its' boat launch and parking, maybe the state is considering Ellacoya for a triple play of rv camping-sailing-boat launch. With Ellacoya's 65.5 acres of land in total, it sure looks like the rv campground side of the property has the space for all three uses. The open field of rv campsites www.nhstateparks.com/ellacoya.html has 37 campsites, all with water-sewer-electricity hook-ups and costs $47/night.

As a side note, one can stay at any one of 23 different Forest Service campgrounds in the White Mt Nat'l Forest, New Hampshire & Maine, for just $16/night, but they do not have any hook-ups.

If I were in the public municipal boat launch business, the very first thing I'd do would be to install one of those green steel fee deposit tubes, similar to what the federal government uses in the White Mt Nat'l Forest. Charge a low price, with honor system payments, taking payments 24-7-365 as the pay tube is concreted into the ground, and everyone becomes a winner; the boat launch, the sailboat school, the fishermen, the trailer-boaters, the rv campground and the Lake Shore residential park abutter neighbors; one great big happy boater family!

Hope this helps!
......

Anyone have a link to a website that explores the history and beginnings of Ellacoya as a NH State Beach & RV Campground? How did the state acquire Ellacoya? Did the state buy it from Chief Ellacoya for 10-cigars and a case of Jenkins rye whiskey, or what? Who was Ellacoya? How did the Ellacoya 65.5 acre waterfront property originally come to be a state facility?
_______________________________
when i saw your question i figured that i had to register as a new member in order to respond.

back in the 1950's & 1960's my family rented summer cottages on the property. at that time, Ellacoya was actually three properties two of which were owned by the Dugas family. Mrs Dugas lived in a red farmhouse across the road before it was improved/widened and she had a son who was a missionary priest who visited in the summer and said weekday masses at Our Lady of the Lakes in Lakeport and at Saint Helena's on sundays. the first property on the lake shore park side of the creek had log cabin style cottages and was called Minnie Ha Ha [at least that's what we called it]; it was the first property bought by the state. those cottages were brought across the ice and placed adjacent to but set back from other cottages on the second Dugas property called Morril Beach. between the two properties next to the creek was property owned by the Armitage family. until the Armitage family was ready to sell, the Morril beach property continued to be used by families who rented cottages from the Dugas family until the mid to late 1960s. in an attempt to convince the state that the value of the land was more than they wanted to pay, Mrs. Dugas played a number of the rental families by offerring to sell them the individual cottages and lots which they had been renting for years. when the Armitage family finally agreed to sell to the state, Mrs Dugas did as well. she did move a few of her cottages down to a spot in west alton but our family never rented from her at that location unless it was while i was in vietnam.
edjr is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to edjr For This Useful Post:
lakegirl (10-02-2010)
Old 10-02-2010, 09:31 AM   #40
lakegirl
Member
 
lakegirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Gilford-Northern MA
Posts: 38
Thanks: 3
Thanked 5 Times in 2 Posts
Default pics

FLL... posted some pics... I will continue to go through my pics and upload.

Rattlesnake Gal.... HI! I'm back.... and on a mission! Is Island Girl still over there!
http://www.winnipesaukee.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=17101
__________________
Lakegirl
Never leave home without your camera
lakegirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2010, 10:02 AM   #41
VtSteve
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,313
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 230
Thanked 358 Times in 167 Posts
Default

Are there any pictures or drafts showing what it's like now, versus the planned model?

It obviously sounds like a great idea from the perspective of the sailing center. I certainly understand the perspective of the abutters as well. I can only imagine that this discussion would be entirely different if someone had proposed a large, multi-purpose marina for use by both powerboats and sailboats

The other issue is that this site is being built upon a state park? Will there be any provisions for other boaters to use the site, or just the sailing center? Tricky ground here. But the facilities seem to be a dramatic improvement for lake access. My question is, lake access for whom?

It would be ideal if many of the positive comments made about this project were similar to comments made about other projects on the lake. Sadly, they aren't. I won't fall into the same bias, simply because this is a sailing center, because I think it's a great idea.

But there are many that have fought marinas, lake usage, powerboats in general, and virtually any lake development that allows access tooth and nail. Everyone's access should be cherished, especially when it's state or town property involved. Abutters should also be respected and heard. They are planning on constructing a breakwater, which used to bring howls of protest.

Anyway, I think it's possibly a good idea. And the same people that have either fought, or even stopped other projects around the lake, should apply the very same consideration to opponents of this project. Maybe a few tweaks could make this workable for all concerned? People need to look in the mirror on this one.

At any rate, I think this proposal could be improved if there was more an element of mixed use, and not one of exclusivity to it. Ames Farm being restored to former use could be a start, one which was needlessly stopped because of a few abutters.
VtSteve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2010, 11:21 AM   #42
ApS
Senior Member
 
ApS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Winnipesaukee & Florida
Posts: 4,494
Thanks: 929
Thanked 433 Times in 317 Posts
Question Too Big?

Mr. Mullen,


Do a search on this forum using the word "sailing": You'll shortly discover there is no greater cheerleader for sailing on this Lake Winnipesaukee forum than me!

How does one otherwise describe the closeness to Winnipesaukee's Great Spiritthan in recreational sailing on this great lake?

Sailing, by itself, requires so little: it is quiet, eco-friendly and brings no harmful effects, pollution or any declining resources to this area. New Hampshire's great gift of natural wildlife is far easier to see while sailing—than even by paddling!

A small sailboat is even easy to build! (And not particularly-expensive to purchase). Kids' college grants can be obtained through sailing programs!

There are sunny days when attempting to set sail is unwarranted—and hazardous—even to the experienced skipper. Let's not force this issue on young sailors while stressing to them that on some days you just can't go out there.

A couple of days ago, to aid FLL's request for more data—I did an intensive Google search among the print-media on this subject: Nothing timely whatsoever appeared!

I'd like to see local residents placated by reassuring them of no eye-sores—no local use of air horns—and no loud music or bands: scale-back everything, and there will be more for those whose actual need for sailing beckons!

Any suggested reductions in natural beauty, and any term new to the Lake can raise suspicions: For example, try-better in the explanation of what your engineer is calling "a wave barrier".
ApS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2010, 11:47 AM   #43
fatlazyless
Senior Member
 
fatlazyless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,436
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 196
Thanked 501 Times in 374 Posts
Default

Ever see the one year old State Fish & Game-Winnisquam boat launch, double ramps, dock, parking and toilet that the state shoe-horned into a defunct NH DES water treatment facility by creating it within the limited space between old water treatment cistern-tanks. It is located on the Winnipesaukee River, about 100-yards upstream from Lake Winnisquam, in Laconia, and was first opened in the summer of 2009.

Taking design features that were employed at Winnisquam, it seems pretty obvious that a boat launch could probably be built on the undeveloped launch that currently exists at the Ellacoya rv campground, immediately next to Lake Shore Park.

Is there enough room for both a new public launch ramp & dock, a new public sailing center, and the existing 37-campsites ($47/nite) rv campground? That is a good question?

Reading the newspapers, one reads how the NH State Parks and the NH Fish & Game are low on money needed to fix leaky roofs and pay for search & rescues. Why not do what the federal government does in the White Mt Nat'l Forest, by installing green steel pay deposit tubes at the boat launches. Say...$10-dollars for either a launch or a retrieve.....honor system basis.....with a $75-dollar fine for any launch ramp deadbeats. The Forest Sevice in the WMNF hits you with a 75-dollar fine for evading their 3-dollar parking fee.

Another good question is: Who gets the money, the state park, the sail center, the F&G, or some employee who's stuff'n the cash into his/her pocket? I volunteer myself to collect & count this new source of ten dollar bills and will be happy to do it!
__________________
Down & out, livn that Walmart side of the lake!
fatlazyless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2010, 01:06 PM   #44
classic22
Member
 
classic22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Alton Bay
Posts: 40
Thanks: 6
Thanked 81 Times in 13 Posts
Default Work with LWSA

The LWSA had a charity event at Ellacoya at the same time as the timberman event this year, and there were no problems for either event to coincide with each other. This proposed site will have a minimal impact in the park, and will offer programs to one and all that want to take advantage. Wouldnt you and your neighbors concerns be better served if you joined in the effort and incorporated your concerns into a solution that benefited all instead of your apparent road block to progress?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lakegirl View Post
FLL....

This state beach is already a beautiful State Park that is open for the residents of NH to enjoy. Why take away that untouched beauty? A sailing school is a great idea... it is the location I/we have a problem with.

One other concern that just came to me. I like many members of the Gilford community participate in the Timberman Tri. I can't imagine how this event will be able to continue if this proposal goes through. This is a huge event that has become part of our community. Many local charities benefit from having this event at Ellacoya.


I would be happy to post pictures of Ellacoya for people to see.
classic22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2010, 03:10 PM   #45
lakegirl
Member
 
lakegirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Gilford-Northern MA
Posts: 38
Thanks: 3
Thanked 5 Times in 2 Posts
Default

The event (I was there) was under a tent. Building a function facility would certainly have an impact on the Timberman. They held a function under a tent the same day as the Timberman. Building a function facility and hosting a function under a tent are 2 different things. As far as the proposed boat launch area and all the sailboats.... I don't know how the swimmers would work around that.

Again... A function Hall? Weddings? Sorry.... this in not acceptable.

As previously stated.... Mr. Mullen went to the neighbors with a plan.... that plan was very very different from what is being proposed. He misrepresented what his intentions were....losing trust in many many people.
__________________
Lakegirl
Never leave home without your camera
lakegirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2010, 05:32 PM   #46
VtSteve
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,313
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 230
Thanked 358 Times in 167 Posts
Default

So even APS has some issues? Hard to say sometimes.


It would appear that there are purists and everyday people that have questions about this proposal. Many would think that if you mention kids and disabilities in the same plan, it just gets done. But apparently, there are a lot of things to consider, and the planners are not as open as they should be. Great marketing though, BTW


APS? Could you please put the bong down and talk to people without the mysterious BS? I know you occasionally make some good points, but most don;t really understand what the heck you're talking about. If there's a point, you fail to make it.

And there is a bigger advocate than you APS. He logs more than 1,000 hours in a boat every summer, usually before August ends.
VtSteve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2010, 03:46 AM   #47
ApS
Senior Member
 
ApS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Winnipesaukee & Florida
Posts: 4,494
Thanks: 929
Thanked 433 Times in 317 Posts
Cool Some Things Just Need Saying...

Quote:
Originally Posted by VtSteve View Post
So even APS has some issues?



1) Brewster Academy designed and built a "sailing boathouse".

To Wolfeboro's lake-panorama was brought a gloomy, dark and hulking addition! A smaller and more open facility would have provided more resources for boats, equipment, storage, spares, dockage, and kids' scholarships.

(I'm a Brewster Academy alumnus, but don't have that boathouse in my everyday view fortunately).


2) Because I'm a camper, I can identify with Tobey's concerns about camping.

....Because I'm an abutter to Development, I can identify with lakegirl's abutting a new Development.

....Because I'm a sailor, I'm leery that "sailing" is elbowing its way onto a State Park.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VtSteve View Post
if you mention kids and disabilities in the same plan, it just gets done...the planners are not as open as they should be. Great marketing though, BTW
To see the plans, Mr. Mullen has just stated he wants us to come to him.

Doesn't just that set your teeth on edge?

Quote:
Originally Posted by VtSteve View Post
APS? Could you please put the bong down and talk to people without the mysterious BS?
1) Since my points were taken directly from Mr. Mullen's explanations on this page, I expect Mr. Mullen to comprehend fully.

2) Please note that my reply was addressed to Mr. Mullen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VtSteve View Post
And there is a bigger advocate than you APS. He logs more than 1,000 hours in a boat every summer, usually before August ends.
Whoever that sailor is, he needs to put his boat on lake that has some wind on it!
ApS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2010, 06:37 AM   #48
VitaBene
Senior Member
 
VitaBene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Moultonborough
Posts: 3,122
Thanks: 1,250
Thanked 1,375 Times in 688 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lakegirl View Post
The event (I was there) was under a tent. Building a function facility would certainly have an impact on the Timberman. They held a function under a tent the same day as the Timberman. Building a function facility and hosting a function under a tent are 2 different things. As far as the proposed boat launch area and all the sailboats.... I don't know how the swimmers would work around that.

Again... A function Hall? Weddings? Sorry.... this in not acceptable.

As previously stated.... Mr. Mullen went to the neighbors with a plan.... that plan was very very different from what is being proposed. He misrepresented what his intentions were....losing trust in many many people.
The venue does not matter- a tent or a hall can hold the same amount of people. I am truly sorry that your experience on the lake is going to change, but if you want to have a snowball's chance in stopping this, you better come up with some better arguments or legalities than you have presented.
VitaBene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2010, 09:50 AM   #49
fatlazyless
Senior Member
 
fatlazyless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,436
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 196
Thanked 501 Times in 374 Posts
Default

Om mornings when it's too windy, the dockmaster hoists the red flag and some restrictions apply, depending on the wind strength. Storm sails, which are maybe about half the size of regular sails, are hauled up the mast, and skills ratings are needed to go out when the red flag is up. It's all the call of the dockmaster.

Maybe I'm wrong on this, but that rv campground beach, hopefully to become a sailing beach, looks like it is home to the morning sun. Who knows, maybe the sailing center will sell coffee and honey-glazed donuts???
__________________
Down & out, livn that Walmart side of the lake!
fatlazyless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2010, 10:41 PM   #50
RI Swamp Yankee
Senior Member
 
RI Swamp Yankee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: North Kingstown RI
Posts: 688
Thanks: 143
Thanked 83 Times in 55 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RI Swamp Yankee View Post
Does NH allow building private facilities on state park land?
I am still wondering. Most states don't allow someone to build facilities on State Park land.
__________________
Gene ~ aka "another RI Swamp Yankee"
RI Swamp Yankee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2010, 06:13 AM   #51
VtSteve
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,313
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 230
Thanked 358 Times in 167 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acres per Second View Post



1) Brewster Academy designed and built a "sailing boathouse".

To Wolfeboro's lake-panorama was brought a gloomy, dark and hulking addition! A smaller and more open facility would have provided more resources for boats, equipment, storage, spares, dockage, and kids' scholarships.

(I'm a Brewster Academy alumnus, but don't have that boathouse in my everyday view fortunately).


2) Because I'm a camper, I can identify with Tobey's concerns about camping.

....Because I'm an abutter to Development, I can identify with lakegirl's abutting a new Development.

....Because I'm a sailor, I'm leery that "sailing" is elbowing its way onto a State Park.


To see the plans, Mr. Mullen has just stated he wants us to come to him.

Doesn't just that set your teeth on edge?


1) Since my points were taken directly from Mr. Mullen's explanations on this page, I expect Mr. Mullen to comprehend fully.

2) Please note that my reply was addressed to Mr. Mullen.


Whoever that sailor is, he needs to put his boat on lake that has some wind on it!
Thanks APS, nicely done. Because I love the lake, and I'm a "boater", I think it's an issue, maybe even several issues. The Lake itself is a State Park as well, and comprised of more than just sailboats and powerboats.

I actually agree with your sentiments, including the wind I wish I could send ours to you.
VtSteve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2010, 10:08 AM   #52
classic22
Member
 
classic22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Alton Bay
Posts: 40
Thanks: 6
Thanked 81 Times in 13 Posts
Default Lwsa

If you were there, as I was , you would have seen that both the iron man and the sailing center could coexist at the same time, as the tent was hosting a rather large gathering with a band. If your looking for peace and quiet at ellacoya with sunsets and loons, Im surprised that you would be a supporter of the ironman, with the thousands invading the park with cars, noise, traffic, boats, people etc...just the same things you cite as reasons not to have the sailing center. You cant have it both ways. The sailing center if done correctly would be a great addition to the park. Get involved in a positive way and make it work for everyone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lakegirl View Post
The event (I was there) was under a tent. Building a function facility would certainly have an impact on the Timberman. They held a function under a tent the same day as the Timberman. Building a function facility and hosting a function under a tent are 2 different things. As far as the proposed boat launch area and all the sailboats.... I don't know how the swimmers would work around that.

Again... A function Hall? Weddings? Sorry.... this in not acceptable.

As previously stated.... Mr. Mullen went to the neighbors with a plan.... that plan was very very different from what is being proposed. He misrepresented what his intentions were....losing trust in many many people.
classic22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2010, 10:40 AM   #53
ishoot308
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Gilford, NH / Welch Island
Posts: 4,303
Thanks: 1,532
Thanked 3,098 Times in 1,193 Posts
Default Building Perspective

Let me try to put the building size into perspective...

The current existing bathhouse measures approximately 26' x 12' (scaled). The new pavilion which basically surrounds the bathhouse measures when scaled 56' x 31'. Basically you would be adding 17' on one side of the current bathhouse and 12' on the other. This is not a massive building by any stretch of the imagination.

Also more than 75% of the new building is open air and unheated space! Only a small section of the building where the offices are would be heated.

I feel very little view would be lost to the RV'ers at the campground. Having stayed at Ellacoya in my motor home for many years I can assure you that having a Prevost Coach parked at the adjacent site and within 10' of you is a far worse obstruction!! Since some of these coaches are 45' in length the proposed building really is not that much longer at 56'.

This should and will be a welcomed addition to the area.

Dan

Last edited by ishoot308; 10-04-2010 at 01:58 PM.
ishoot308 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2010, 12:19 PM   #54
tntm_71we
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 30
Thanks: 0
Thanked 23 Times in 9 Posts
Default Thanks To All!

Good Morning!

As a newcomer to this site, I am very impressed by the number and the quality of the comments, pro and con, concerning the proposed new LWSA/Adams Memorial Sailing Center. I'm glad to see that an intelligent discussion can occur through this medium in a way that allows people to become informed and to simultaneously voice their opinions.

Please allow me to address a few points/questions that have been raised. The new Sailing Center will not be a private facility. It will be open to the public. Memberships will be solicited as a way to raise funds for operations, but the programs run by the facility will be open to participation to all comers. Because it will not be possible to charge users enough to cover the costs of purchasing and maintaining equipment, paying full and part time staff, costs of insurance, utlities, building maintenance, snow plowing, grounds maintenance, and on and on and on, the LWSA, on a limited basis, will allow people to hold special functions in the building such as anniversaries and weddings for a fee, just as is done at Gunstock and other publicly owned facilities.

The building will be totally enclosed and it is anticipated that no more noise will spread over to Lake Shore Park than already flows from Lake Shore Park over to Ellacoya. This is not a smart mouthed kind of comment -- it's designed to point out that the Lake Shore Park waterfront is anything, but a quiet serene sort of place. It is a a very busy, active and at times, a downright noisy, frentic, fun and friendly place -- as it should be!

As for the Ironman Competition, the LWSA plans to give the event the use of the LWSA's facility on that weekend and in all likelihood, the LWSA will not plan to use the waterfront for its sailing programs on that same weekend. This is not cast in stone, but the message I'm trying to relate is that the LWSA and Keith/Audra worked together very effectively during this year's event and we're very confident we will do so in the future.

As far as Lakegirl's assertion that the LWSA has changed its program from earlier representations, that is simply not the case. From day one, when Alan Kirkman (LSP's Executive Director) and I started communicating with one another, the LWSA has not held back any details of its plans or its programs in any way, shape or form. We have been direct, truthful and explicit about what is is we intend to do in all respects. So if you choose to, find fault with our intended uses and fight us on that front, but please don't accuse us of being untruthful or for misrepresenting our intentions -- you're out in left field doing that.

By the way, anyone who would like to see our plans, just call me or e-mail me and I'll send you a plan through the mails or I can forward a PDF and we're happy to do so. Addressing the concerns of the writer who had a reaction to the Brewster Academy Boathouse, our building will be well back from the waterfront with a large buffer of mature trees between the building and the water. I have a great sensitivity to the character of our lake's waterfront and nothing that I do or that the LWSA does will compromise that character.

As for the public boat ramp, a complete re-do of that ramp with an adjacent dock is part of the LWSA's plan and we will have a separate ramp of our own as well. I have propsed to the State that the LWSA will be willing to monitor and be responsible for enforcing whatever usage requirements the State wants to have in place. If the State will allow the LWSA to charge a fee to help cover the LWSA's expected costs of costructing the ramp, maintaining and overseeing the LWSA will gladly collect that fee. If the State requires the LWSA to manage the usage of the ramp, but collect no fee, the LWSA will comply. I feel certain that the public will happily pay something for access to a well constructed ramp that can be used year-round without vehicles getting stuck in the snow/water/sand.

Lastly, our plans do not contemplate building a "Wave Barrier" per se. The plans call for a wave fence -- a structure that allows the water to flow though the fence, but it knocks down the waves to permit calm water to be in place beyond the fence. This was the concession already made to Lake Shore Park to insure that sand and silt laden water could pass along the shorefront west and east in both directions. This was an appropriate request and the LWSA is happy that it could accommodate LSP's needs in this regard.

The LWSA will continue to take the needs of all stakeholders into consideration as we finalize the plans and go though the approval process. All questions and concerns are welcome and thanks to all of you who have taken the time to make your feelings known.

Regards,

Tom Mullen
tntm_71we is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to tntm_71we For This Useful Post:
classic22 (10-04-2010), ishoot308 (10-05-2010), Reilly (10-24-2010), VtSteve (10-04-2010)
Old 10-04-2010, 01:47 PM   #55
RI Swamp Yankee
Senior Member
 
RI Swamp Yankee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: North Kingstown RI
Posts: 688
Thanks: 143
Thanked 83 Times in 55 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tntm_71we View Post
... The new Sailing Center will not be a private facility. ...
Does that mean it will be owned by the public or the state?

I would also presume the facility would pay rent and a percentage of income which is normal in this type of operation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tntm_71we View Post
our building will be well back from the waterfront
You mean the publicly owned building?
__________________
Gene ~ aka "another RI Swamp Yankee"
RI Swamp Yankee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2010, 03:04 PM   #56
fatlazyless
Senior Member
 
fatlazyless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,436
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 196
Thanked 501 Times in 374 Posts
Default

Taking a look at the nearby White Mountain National Forest, there's a number of ski areas that have been in existence for years by securing a special use permit from the owner of the land, the U.S. Dept of Agriculture and its sub-division, the U.S. Forest Sevice. Wildcat, Waterville Valley, Loon, Bretton Woods, Black & Attitash are either partially or totally located within the WMNF and are in operation via special use permits.

So, how is running a sailing school that targets local youth and charges low prices and building it on a NH state beach any different than operating a ski area on federal forest land?

That 200-yard, or so, long natural beach area in front of the concrete retainer wall, that's in front of the rv campground and toilet/shower building is a very attractive waterfront area, but it certainly seems that a local sailing school and a motorboat launch ramp & accompanying set-up dock would be an improved additional use. The neighboring Lake Shore Park already has their own beach, and it's not like the Lake Shore Park is losing its' next door vacant & untouched and underused rv beach. They, like everyone else in the area, will be gaining two new lake access points; a sailing center and a boat launch w/ a dock that's good for fishermen and trailer-boaters.

I might be wrong on this, but while the state ramps on Winnisquam, Squam, and Newfound are all no-charge, the ramp at Ellacoya could be a fee ramp because it is located in a state beach area. The ramp at Newfound is located within Whitemore Point State Beach and Natural Area, and that one is free, so that contradicts this line of thought........duh?
.......

Just about everything in the swimming side of Ellacoya like the bathroom sinks, toilets, doors, tile walls, outdoor sliding slides, park fixtures all look like they were new in about 1965 and have been kept running and working and in use and MAINTAINED ever since, since 1965. So, a big HAT's OFF to the Ellacoya maintenance crew because it all looks like they manage to keep everything in there working forever!
__________________
Down & out, livn that Walmart side of the lake!

Last edited by fatlazyless; 10-05-2010 at 06:55 PM.
fatlazyless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2010, 11:20 PM   #57
RI Swamp Yankee
Senior Member
 
RI Swamp Yankee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: North Kingstown RI
Posts: 688
Thanks: 143
Thanked 83 Times in 55 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fatlazyless View Post
...So, how is running a sailing school that targets local youth and charges low prices and building it on a NH state beach any different than operating a ski area on federal forest land?...
Well, you answered part of it. One is a state beach and campground the other is federal forest land.

Some of those ski areas are on privately owned land within the National Forest, they were there before it was WMNF land. Those that use WMNF land pay a substantial fee to use that land, they don't get to use it for free.
__________________
Gene ~ aka "another RI Swamp Yankee"
RI Swamp Yankee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2010, 09:41 AM   #58
fatlazyless
Senior Member
 
fatlazyless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,436
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 196
Thanked 501 Times in 374 Posts
Default

Attitash Mt, in Bartlett NH, is on its' own private land down close to Route 302, but as the chairlift climbs the slope, it quickly passes a sign 'Entering White Mt National Forest. Ditto for Loon. Waterville and Wildcat are totally in the WMNF, and not sure about Bretton Woods or Black Mt in Jackson. Cannon is in a NH state park as is Ellacoya.

The White Mountain National Forest was established or created by the Weeks Act of 1922, or so. U.S. Senator John W Weeks of Massachusetts originally was from Lancaster NH, went to Harvard College and law school and became a Massachusetts politician, where he sponsored the Weeks Act that created the WMNF. So, the WMNF was a federal property for about 25-years before any of the ski areas were built. Cannon and Black are the oldest, followed by Cranmore, Wildcat, Attitash, Loon & Waterville, & Bretton Woods, or something like that!

Getting back on topic here......a public sailing center.....and a new public boat launch.....what's not to like? In the months of May, June, September & October, Lake Winnipesaukee is a great big lake with almost no boats out on the water. The lake goes very quiet right after Labor Day so a new Ellacoya sail & launch spot would make it more easy for everyone to use it.
__________________
Down & out, livn that Walmart side of the lake!

Last edited by fatlazyless; 10-06-2010 at 01:14 PM.
fatlazyless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2010, 10:53 AM   #59
jrc
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Hollis/Gilford
Posts: 2,688
Thanks: 33
Thanked 437 Times in 247 Posts
Default

First, I'm all for this sailing school, I love to watch the newbies learn in Smith Cove now and I think having it at Ellacoya would give a lot more people chance to use it.

I do have a little trouble with the changing meaning of the word public in these emails. Some simple questions for clarity:

Who will pay for the construction of the building?
Who will own the building?
Will the LWSA pay rent on the land or a franchise fee for use of the facilities?
Who will pay utilities, upkeep and repair on the building?
Can the State of NH, choose a different organization to use the facilities, if at a later time the LWSA proves to be an inadequate manager?
Who will set the fees and selection process for users of the LWSA programs?
Who will be responsible if a sailing trainee or employee of LWSA is injured or killed?
jrc is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to jrc For This Useful Post:
RI Swamp Yankee (10-06-2010)
Old 10-06-2010, 01:10 PM   #60
fatlazyless
Senior Member
 
fatlazyless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,436
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 196
Thanked 501 Times in 374 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrc View Post
Some simple questions for clarity:

Who will pay?
Who will own?
Will the LWSA pay rent?
Who will pay utilities?
Can the State of NH choose a different organization?
Who will set the fees?
Who will be responsible for sailing school injured or killed?
...some very good questions.....not to worry....everything to be covered by the smile of the great spirit.....just hoist the main halyard.....have a beer.... forgetaboutit..... & sail on !
__________________
Down & out, livn that Walmart side of the lake!
fatlazyless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2010, 01:53 PM   #61
RI Swamp Yankee
Senior Member
 
RI Swamp Yankee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: North Kingstown RI
Posts: 688
Thanks: 143
Thanked 83 Times in 55 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fatlazyless View Post
Attitash Mt, in Bartlett NH, is on its' own private land down close to Route 302, but as the chairlift climbs the slope, it quickly passes a sign 'Entering White Mt National Forest. .....
If you research back a few years in the Conway Daily Sun you will find there was much negotiation involving that chairlift, some of it bitter. Attitash paid quite a bit for use of that piece of land.

I do think a sailing school is great, the question is where?

jrc raises many valid points that I don't see answered.
__________________
Gene ~ aka "another RI Swamp Yankee"
RI Swamp Yankee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2010, 04:12 PM   #62
jmen24
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,139
Thanks: 223
Thanked 318 Times in 181 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RI Swamp Yankee View Post
Does that mean it will be owned by the public or the state?

I would also presume the facility would pay rent and a percentage of income which is normal in this type of operation.

You mean the publicly owned building?
OK, here is my read on the situation.

It will be public, as in a similar state to a public golf course. You do not have to be a member to have access. You still have to pay a fee for the experience.

That fee apparently goes to the operation not the state.

This seems like it will work in the exact same fashion as any form of guiding service that operates on state land within the state. A private for profit company makes money utilizing state resources, they get that right by purchasing lease rights to access the land for profit purposes and have to do so every few years or so.

My cousin's father-in-law has a camp on Umbagog, the land is state owned, he owns the camp (can make it into what ever he wants, to a point) and has a 99 year lease to keep it on the states land. The restrictions for what he can do as far as the building size and septic are very tight. For example, he cannot build a fully modern house on the land.

Basically the state will control the land and the sailing school will control the building with a tight eye from the state. The building will in all intense purposes be owned by the state.

I believe you are correct in that the state will not see any of these fees for the yearly activities, but will get some back in the lease fees.
jmen24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2010, 06:54 PM   #63
tntm_71we
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 30
Thanks: 0
Thanked 23 Times in 9 Posts
Default Answers To Questions & Concerns

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrc View Post
First, I'm all for this sailing school, I love to watch the newbies learn in Smith Cove now and I think having it at Ellacoya would give a lot more people chance to use it.

I do have a little trouble with the changing meaning of the word public in these emails. Some simple questions for clarity:

Who will pay for the construction of the building?
Who will own the building?
Will the LWSA pay rent on the land or a franchise fee for use of the facilities?
Who will pay utilities, upkeep and repair on the building?
Can the State of NH, choose a different organization to use the facilities, if at a later time the LWSA proves to be an inadequate manager?
Who will set the fees and selection process for users of the LWSA programs?
Who will be responsible if a sailing trainee or employee of LWSA is injured or killed?
Greetings,

These are all fair questions. I'll try to answer them all and a few others that would logically flow from these answers, but there's no way to be brief and to address all these issues. First of all, please realize that the State of New Hampshire has no discretionary funds, like zippo, nada, gonzo and it could be years before tax yields come up with anything remotely usable to start making capital investments like new facilities at Ellacoya. This means that if an organization like the LWSA wants to create a new facility, the money has to be raised from sources other than the State.

The LWSA has proposed to build this facility without tapping into State funds, so it will be seeking contributions, grants, sponsorships and other in-kind contributions such as getting a sitework company to contribute time, equipment and labor to do a portion of the work; getting a roofing company to donate the men and materials for constructing the roof; etc. etc., etc.

The LWSA will seek major cash contributions from large companies such as banks, high tech firms and individual donors to cover building costs that aren't donated by firms in the construction business. If the LWSA doesn't cover all of the project's costs in the manner described above, certain benefactors have agreed to back a mortgage loan for an amount adequate to complete the building and to provide all the equipment necessary to run the programs.

Because the LWSA is a 501(c)(3), all donations are tax deductible to the donor so there can be tax benefits to those who dig deep to help get the complex built. A gifting program will be initiated to provide an endowment fund to cover expenses to the extent they exceed income. Right now, the LWSA's operating income and expenses are just about breaking even with the organization's balance sheet solidly in the black this current year as a result of the sale of donated boats and donations from supporters of the organization.

What it comes down to is for the State to create new facilities like this Sailing Center for the State's citizens, it has to turn to a non profit group like the LWSA whose members are passionate enough about a certain cause or activity so they will take on the risk of getting it built and equipped for use by the public. And be absolutely certain of this fact, the new LWSA/Adams Memorial Sailing Center IS a public facility. But the State doesn't stop there! DRED and Parks & Recreation have told the LWSA that there's a quid pro quo for getting the use of the land at Ellacoy. The LWSA has to upgrade the bath house, the road leading down to the waterfront and the public launching facility, in addition to building its own new facility, all in exchange for a use permit.

As for a fee back from the LWSA to the State for use of Ellacoya, it just won't happen. The LWSA's existing programs are barely breakeven. When the costs of running an Adaptive Sailing Program along with a new Adult Community Sailing Program are layered onto the costs of maintaining a new expensive building, it's a certainty that expenses will rise to exceed the sailing operation's income streams. That's where the need for event income will come into play. Instead of turning to Bingo and rummage sales like a lot of other charitable organizations, the LWSA will look to capitalize on the Sailing Center's glorious views up the lake and we'll allow the facility to be used for an occasional wedding, meeting or special event. I'm sure before we're done that there will be a meeting there of the Governor and the Governor's Council.

These types of arrangements between State, County or municipally owned facilities and various non-governmental entities (NGO's) like the LWSA are prevalent throughout New Hampshire. The underlying arrangement always allows the governmental side of the transaction to step in and take over ownership of the facility if the NGO doesn't fulfill its obligations and when or if this happens, the NGO's rights to use of the property are extinguished.

As for the use of the word "public" it obviously takes on different meanings based on the context in which it's used. All of the LWSA's programs are available to the public. Its facility at Ellacoya will be open to the public subject obviously to hours of operation and the payment of certain fees. There may be times when the facility is being fully utilized by the LWSA's activities in a way that would preclude additional members of the public from access, but only for such times.

To the extent that memberships are available such as membership in a particular activity like the Frost Biting Club, a group that sails and races up until ice has formed on the lake, the public can join that particular club and there may be a fee for use of boats and for paying staff to run races. If the capacity of the facility is maxxed out by the people who have already signed up for that program, it's concieveable a member of the public will not be able to participate even though that program is "open to the public".

There will be rules and regulations and fees all designed to offset, to the extent possible, costs of operating, staffing and maintaining the facility and its programs, but the LWSA's books are open to the scrutiny of the public since it is a 501(c)(3) at reasonable times, and if there are operating "profits" from one aspect of the facility's program, they will be quickly absorbed by other programs and the omnipresent need for replacing equipment.

If the organization does not fulfill its contractural responsibilities to DRED for use of the property and or abandons the facility, the State would be entitled to take over possession and ownership of the facility. If any loan secured by a mortgage is put in place by the LWSA, it would be junior in priority to the State's right to step in and that mortgage would then be wiped out forthwith. These are very typical provisions found in all such agreements where an organization such as the LWSA, whether it's a for profit or a not for profit entity, is a participant in a Special Use Permit with a governmental agency that owns the underlying land.

In essence, this is the same type of arrangement that is in place with the business that runs the Timberman Competition at Ellacoya. The difference is that the Timberman is there to, and in fact, does make a profit and because it does, it pays DRED/Ellacoya a fee for use of the facility. In the case of the LWSA, it is not designed to make a profit and none of it's officers and directors are paid for any of their services -- it is a true 501(c)(3). I wish I could say there's a likelihood the LWSA on an overall basis will ever see an operating profit. Since it's inception, we've always had to take a look at the books in the Fall of each year to see how far upside down the organization is and then we hold some type of fundraiser before year end to make up the deficit. I'm sure it will be no different at Ellacoya except there will be more at stake with larger deficits that will have to be made up every year.

Any Special Use Permit fees like the ones Waterville Valley or Loon pay to the National Forest Service would never fly at Ellacoya because both of those ski areas, like the Timberman program, are designed to make a profit and they should , therefore, pay for the access they have to the land. It could be argued that the State of New Hampshire ought to pay the LWSA for placing its facility at Ellacoya and then subsidize the on-going operations, at least to the point those programs break even -- not a very likely scenario!

The LWSA will probably pay a symbolic $1.00 per year fee for access to and use of the property, but the State will include terms in the Special Use Permit that will require the LWSA to properly maintain the facility and to operate the facility as represented. I'm sure there will be some requirements that the LWSA has to maintain and to possibly even oversee the operations of the public launching ramp. If a fee is to be collected, I'm sure the State will dictate how that fee is to be collected and how it will be shared if shared at all.

As for the fees the LWSA charges for use of the facilities, programs and its equipment, the State may choose to be involved, but I doubt they'll care. I'm sure they will want to have a say in our hours and days of operation and they will certainly want to decide what we will be allowed to do or not do on the property.

The LWSA is fully insured for all of its activities, including Workmans' Comp for its staff. Our policy is uniquely designed for non-profit sailing centers through the US Sailing Association, which is intimately familiar with the risks and perils associated with running a facility of this nature. The State of New Hampshire will be a named insured on all of our policies.

Although the LWSA is a 501(c)(3), it is run by a Board of Directors that includes a group of highly experienced business and professional people who dedicate many hundreds of hours each year to the furtherance of the LWSA's Mission. This Mission can be read by going to www.lwsa.org and clicking on About.

I hope this information is helpful to those of you who have concerns about the LWSA and its intended uses of Ellacoya. If our proposed facility end up being approved, I can assure you that our organization will be responsible tenants and a net plus for all of its intended users.

Regards,

Tom Mullen, President
Lake Winnipesaukee Sailing Association, Inc.
tntm_71we is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2010, 09:33 PM   #64
jrc
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Hollis/Gilford
Posts: 2,688
Thanks: 33
Thanked 437 Times in 247 Posts
Default

To summarize:

Who will pay for the construction of the building?
LWSA through donations or mortgage

Who will own the building?
LWSA as long as they are there

Will the LWSA pay rent on the land or a franchise fee for use of the facilities?
No, maybe a token fee

Who will pay utilities, upkeep and repair on the building?
LWSA through fees and donations

Can the State of NH, choose a different organization to use the facilities, if at a later time the LWSA proves to be an inadequate manager?
Yes

Who will set the fees and selection process for users of the LWSA programs?
LWSA

Who will be responsible if a sailing trainee or employee of LWSA is injured or killed?
LWSA has insurance


I don't see anything that looks bad
jrc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2010, 05:29 AM   #65
ApS
Senior Member
 
ApS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Winnipesaukee & Florida
Posts: 4,494
Thanks: 929
Thanked 433 Times in 317 Posts
Question Still Unclear...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrc View Post
I don't see anything that looks bad
How about what the Internet is calling a "wave-fence"?

ApS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2010, 08:38 AM   #66
jmen24
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,139
Thanks: 223
Thanked 318 Times in 181 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acres per Second View Post
How about what the Internet is calling a "wave-fence"?

Do some research. It is also called a "Floating Breakwater" and they come in many different styles.

I would think you would be putting all your weight behind this. It really sounds like an asset to the Lake.

Photo is not even realated.
jmen24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2010, 08:49 AM   #67
fatlazyless
Senior Member
 
fatlazyless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,436
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 196
Thanked 501 Times in 374 Posts
Default

What's the relevance of the above photo? It's not a photo of Ellacoya.

What would be real good would be a large, high definition aerial photo that shows Ellacoya and its' next door neighbor, Lake Shore Park. Helloooooo, any local aerial photographers out there???
.......
Reading the newspapers, you learn about repair items at NH state parks like worn out roofs and unpainted buildings due to lack of money. Ellacoya charges four dollars/person to get into the swim beach area, and $47/night to rent a campsight with utilities hookup for an rv. Looking at the rest room buildings in the swim area side, and the rv area side, all the fixtures look like they were new in 1965, but have been maintained and still provide good use.

It's my prediction that there's plenty different people in the area who will step up the plate, and connect with a donation, whatever they can afford, to help make the new public sailing center, and new public boat launch area get built. By building it based on lots of small local donations, that will help to keep it connected with the local community!
__________________
Down & out, livn that Walmart side of the lake!

Last edited by fatlazyless; 10-07-2010 at 09:53 AM.
fatlazyless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2010, 01:06 PM   #68
jrc
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Hollis/Gilford
Posts: 2,688
Thanks: 33
Thanked 437 Times in 247 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acres per Second View Post
How about what the Internet is calling a "wave-fence"?
APS, you did understand that my post addressed the financial aspects of the proposal? If you read my post again you will see I addressed costs, ownership and liability. You should assume my conclusion was based on those topics.

I did not address the impacts to the shoreline of North Carolina. I'm not sure why it's relevent.

I'm sure you are not suggesting that our crack state environmental people would allow someone to build a structure into Lake Winnipesaukee that causes harm to the lake or its users?
jrc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2010, 10:02 PM   #69
ApS
Senior Member
 
ApS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Winnipesaukee & Florida
Posts: 4,494
Thanks: 929
Thanked 433 Times in 317 Posts
Talking 'See What I Mean About The Wind?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrc View Post
APS, you did understand that my post addressed the financial aspects of the proposal?
1) To understand it all, the proposal is not complete.

2) Of course I favor sailing, but they're training 200 sailors a year. After only a few years, this will result in too many sailboats on the lake—and use up all the wind.

3) Since you know it's North Carolina, then you did some research. A wave-fence is a poor descriptor, and accuracy can't be found. Even described as a floating breakwater, there is nothing to indicate just what it is.

Again, to Mr. Mullen, it is still unknown just what a wave fence is.

3) While on this topic of sailing, I stumbled on the article below. Here, there are a few items—for those who follow the sailing sport.

• Women's sailboat racing.

• A racing championship for the Sunfish sailboat.

• An international sailing race, to be held in NoBozo's home state.

The Para-Lympics—related to an item mentioned earlier.

Quote:
[Amanda Callahan] looks forward to joining [team racing] at the 2011 ISAF Team Racing World Championships next August in Ireland. She also hopes to continue sailing the Sunfish competitively. “I am so excited that the Sunfish North Americans are coming to my backyard in Barrington (R.I.),” she mentioned.

The USOC’s Military Paralympic Sailing Clinic at the Newport Naval Base is one of Amanda’s favorite days of the year. “I have the opportunity to give back to people who have given up a lot more for the U.S., and on top of that, it is just a fun day spent with great people.”
Amanda's all-woman team appears below, racing the J-22:

Sunfish-National numbers have since doubled, this is a '96 photo!
Attached Images
  
ApS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2010, 08:19 AM   #70
Tobey
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 7
Thanks: 2
Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post
Default

Mr. Mullen, Tobey here again. A few more questions please.

A I review the threads and other web sites and talk to some of my fellow campers at Ellacoya we have a few more questions.

First, there is quite a lot of talk about a Kids sailing program, handicap acess and wounded warriors etc., on this site and other web sites.

I applaud you if that is what you are trying to accomplish.

However, a look at your web site clearly shows you are more than that. Just look at your own by laws (BELOW).

Alsthough your (as you say) "General Purpose" pourpose is to encourage the sport of sailing and racing; to introduce and teach young people sailing you have other golas as well.

Questions:

If you are a sailing club now, where are all the members boats anchored? How many members are there that have sail boats?

How many of those boats will move to moorings in front of Ellacoya?
How many moorings do you intend to apply for?

What will I do with the boat I and others now tie to the beach where your building is going to be located

How many races will you plan a year (in summer)?

Where will the 75 cars you alluded to elsewhere park?

How many functions a summer (weddings etc)? Open to all takers to offset costs?

Your facility faces the Ellacoya swimming beach north and west. What about the noise us campers and swimmers will have to listen to.

I hate to sound nasty or condesending, but.....Is the kids sailing program the front for your much larger yacht club and party central for your members & their races, functions, gatherings, hang out (Yacht Club atmosphere)??

YOUR BY LAWS ARE BELOW:



Lake Winnipesaukee Sailing Association
BY-LAWS
as approved February 8, 1992
ARTICLE I - NAME
The name of this organization shall be the LAKE WINNIPESAUKEE SAILING ASSOCIATION.

ARTICLE II - PURPOSE
The general purpose of the organization is to encourage the sport of sailing and racing; to introduce and teach young people sailing; to encourage youth sailing and to provide facilities and programs for the education of children in sailing and sailboat racing; to foster sportsmanship throughout the sport; to promote the science of seamanship and navigation; to foster and encourage social fellowship appertaining to all things nautical between members and similar associations; to forward and advance sailing in all its phases and more particularly to promote competitions and regattas under uniform rules among the members and other clubs within our region; and to foster local, national and international amateur sailing competition.

The Corporation is specifically precluded from engaging in any prohibited activities as defined in the New Hampshire Statutes and from any other activities not permitted to be carried on by (a) a corporation exempt from federal income tax under section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1954 or the corresponding provision of any future United States Internal Revenue Law or (b) a corporation, contributions to which are deductible under Section 170(c)(2) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1954 or any other corresponding provision of any future United States Internal Revenue Law.

Further delineation of the objects not conflicting with the above, may be made by the By-Laws.

ARTICLE III - OFFICERS
The officers of the club shall be a Commodore, Vice Commodore, and Rear Commodore; hereinafter designated as Flag Officers, a Secretary and a Treasurer.

It shall be the responsibility of all officers of the organization to uphold and enforce the mission and purpose of the organization as set forth in ARTICLE II herein.

No officer shall receive any form of compensation for the position in which they serve.

ARTICLE IV - DUTIES
It shall be the duty of the Commodore to command the association, to preside at all meetings of the club, and to enforce its laws, regulations and decisions of the Board of Directors.

It shall be the duty of the Vice Commodore to assist the Commodore in the discharge of his/her duties and in his/her absence to act in his/her stead.

It shall be the duty of the Rear Commodore to assist the Commodore and the Vice Commodore and in their absence to act in their stead. The Rear Commodore shall arrange and superintend all official races and regattas of the club. The Rear Commodore shall appoint members of the Race Committee.

It shall be the duty of the Secretary to keep a record of all club meetings and of the Board of Directors meetings.

The Secretary shall keep a roster of the officers and committees, a roll of the members and of the boats enrolled in the various fleets.

The Secretary shall report to the club at its annual general meeting and to the Board of Directors as required.

The Treasurer shall collect all moneys due to the club, and shall make such disbursements therefrom as are ordered or approved by the Board of Directors. The Treasurer shall keep account of all club investments and make a report to the club at its annual meeting.

The Commodore may appoint such other committees as required to serve during the term of his/her office.

ARTICLE V - PROPERTY
All property of the club shall be vested in the Board of Directors as trustee for the members thereof, and they shall have power to act for and bind the members of the club, as their agent, in all transactions relating to the property. Said property shall be superintended and managed by the property officer who shall be appointed by the Commodore.

No officer or member shall have ownership interest in the property of the organization.

ARTICLE VI - EMPLOYEES
The Board of Directors shall hire and fix the compensation of any and all employees which in their discretion may determine to be necessary in the conduct of the business of the organization.

ARTICLE VII - STANDING COMMITTEES
The Board of Directors shall consist of five (5) members including the Flag Officers, the Secretary, and the Treasurer. Three (3) members including at least one (1) Flag Officer shall constitute a quorum. All meetings of this committee shall be called by the Commodore, or in his/her absence by the officer next in rank. The ranking officer present shall be chairman of the meeting.

The Board of Directors shall have the general control and direction of the policy and finances of the club and the election of the members thereto. It shall authorize all disbursements and contracts. The Board of Directors may require all other committees and officers to report to it when necessary for the discharge of its duties. The Board of Directors shall report to the club at its annual general meeting, and to any special meeting called for the purpose, as provided in Article VII of this constitution.

The Race Committee shall consist of at least two members and the Rear Commodore. The Rear Commodore may appoint additional members to this committee as is deemed necessary. The Race Committee shall have authority to regulate and control all races and regattas held by the club. It shall decide all questions referred to it by the judges and skippers of competing boats, select and award all prizes offered by the club. The Race Committee shall report to the club at its annual meeting and to the Board of Directors when required.

The Membership Committee shall be appointed by the Commodore. It shall have charge of all applications and shall inform the Board of Directors through the Secretary as to their opinion of each applicant's qualifications for membership.

The Activities Committee will be appointed by the Commodore. The chairman of this committee will check with the Treasurer for availability of funds.

ARTICLE VIII - MEETINGS
The annual general meeting shall be held on or about November 1 or on such date as decided upon by the Board of Directors. The Secretary shall notify in writing all members at least two (2) weeks prior to the annual meeting.

Special meetings may be called by the Commodore at his/her pleasure, or by the written request of one-third of the membership. Such special meetings will be held at the time and place as set forth by the Commodore. Such special meetings shall have power to transact only that specific business for which the meeting was called. The Secretary shall notify in writing at least two weeks in advance the membership and stipulate the business under consideration for any special meeting.

All committee chairmen shall have the authority to arrange and call their own committee meetings at a time and place most convenient to the committee. The Commodore may call for a meeting of any committee as the need may arise.

ARTICLE IX - ELECTIONS
The Commodore, Vice Commodore, Rear Commodore, Secretary, and Treasurer shall be elected at the annual meeting each year by a majority vote of the members present, to serve for a term of one (1) year. The term of the officers shall commence immediately upon election.

A vacancy occurring in the office of Commodore, Vice Commodore, Rear Commodore, Secretary or Treasurer shall be filled by the next ranking officer to the position vacated for the duration of the unexpired term. A replacement may be elected by the unanimous vote of the then remaining members of the Board of Directors at a meeting called for this purpose.

The Board of Directors shall have the authority to fill a vacancy occurring in their own number, for the unexpired term of said vacancy.

ARTICLE X - MEMBERSHIP
Membership shall be on a family or individual basis. Family Membership shall entitle all dependents of a member, resident in his/her household, to general privileges of the club, except voting rights shall be limited to one vote per adult, but not more than two (2) adults per Family Membership. Age eighteen (18) and over shall be considered an adult for memberships purposes.

Individual Membership shall entitle that member to general privileges of the club and voting rights limited to one vote.

No member shall have ownership interest in the property of the organization.

Honorary membership shall be by election of the club by a majority vote. The individuals nominated for the honorary membership shall be selected by the Board of Directors. Honorary members shall pay no dues or fees, nor shall they be able to vote.

Any member accused of breaking the rules of the club or of conduct unbecoming or damaging to the good name of the club shall be notified of such charges and details by the Secretary and given the opportunity to be heard in his/her own behalf before the Board of Directors. Upon such hearing, or upon his/her failure to appear, the Board may, if it finds the charges proved, issue whatever discipline it deems appropriate including but not limited to admonishment (public or private), suspension, and/or forfeiture of membership. Such member has the right of appeal to the club at a special meeting called for that purpose and the membership may by a two-thirds vote of those present reverse the action of the Board and set aside all penalties.

ARTICLE XI - DUES
Annual dues shall be sixty (60) dollars for a Family Membership and thirty (30) dollars for an Individual Membership. Dues may be adjusted by the Board of Directors to meet the financial needs of the club when necessary.

ARTICLE XII - POWER BOAT OWNERS
Owners of power boats shall be entitled to full membership as described in ARTICLE X.

ARTICLE XIII - AMENDMENTS
Amendments shall be by a two-thirds majority of those members present at any meeting specifically called for said amendment. The membership shall be notified in accordance with Article VII.

ARTICLE XIV - DISSOLUTION
Upon the dissolution of the corporation, all assets shall be liquidated and all proceeds applied to the outstanding debts of the organization. After all outstanding debts are paid, any remaining assets shall be distributed to the successor exempt corporation, United States Sailing Association, Box 209, Newport, Rhode Island, 02840, within the meaning of section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code or corresponding section of any future Federal Tax Code or shall be distributed to the Federal Government, or to a state or local government, for a public purpose. Any such assets not so disposed of shall be disposed of by the Court of Common Pleas of the County in which the principal office of the Corporation is then located, exclusively for such purposes or to such organization or organizations, as said Court shall determine, which are organized and operated exclusively for such purposes.

No benefit, except for approved compensation as set forth herein, shall be conferred upon any officer or director upon dissolution.
Tobey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2010, 05:26 PM   #71
tntm_71we
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 30
Thanks: 0
Thanked 23 Times in 9 Posts
Default Answers To Tobey's Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobey View Post
Mr. Mullen, Tobey here again. A few more questions please.

A I review the threads and other web sites and talk to some of my fellow campers at Ellacoya we have a few more questions.

First, there is quite a lot of talk about a Kids sailing program, handicap acess and wounded warriors etc., on this site and other web sites.

I applaud you if that is what you are trying to accomplish.

However, a look at your web site clearly shows you are more than that. Just look at your own by laws (BELOW).

Alsthough your (as you say) "General Purpose" pourpose is to encourage the sport of sailing and racing; to introduce and teach young people sailing you have other golas as well.

Questions:

If you are a sailing club now, where are all the members boats anchored? How many members are there that have sail boats?

How many of those boats will move to moorings in front of Ellacoya?
How many moorings do you intend to apply for?

What will I do with the boat I and others now tie to the beach where your building is going to be located

How many races will you plan a year (in summer)?

Where will the 75 cars you alluded to elsewhere park?

How many functions a summer (weddings etc)? Open to all takers to offset costs?

Your facility faces the Ellacoya swimming beach north and west. What about the noise us campers and swimmers will have to listen to.

I hate to sound nasty or condesending, but.....Is the kids sailing program the front for your much larger yacht club and party central for your members & their races, functions, gatherings, hang out (Yacht Club atmosphere)??

YOUR BY LAWS ARE BELOW:



Lake Winnipesaukee Sailing Association
BY-LAWS
as approved February 8, 1992
ARTICLE I - NAME
The name of this organization shall be the LAKE WINNIPESAUKEE SAILING ASSOCIATION.

ARTICLE II - PURPOSE
The general purpose of the organization is to encourage the sport of sailing and racing; to introduce and teach young people sailing; to encourage youth sailing and to provide facilities and programs for the education of children in sailing and sailboat racing; to foster sportsmanship throughout the sport; to promote the science of seamanship and navigation; to foster and encourage social fellowship appertaining to all things nautical between members and similar associations; to forward and advance sailing in all its phases and more particularly to promote competitions and regattas under uniform rules among the members and other clubs within our region; and to foster local, national and international amateur sailing competition.

The Corporation is specifically precluded from engaging in any prohibited activities as defined in the New Hampshire Statutes and from any other activities not permitted to be carried on by (a) a corporation exempt from federal income tax under section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1954 or the corresponding provision of any future United States Internal Revenue Law or (b) a corporation, contributions to which are deductible under Section 170(c)(2) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1954 or any other corresponding provision of any future United States Internal Revenue Law.

Further delineation of the objects not conflicting with the above, may be made by the By-Laws.

ARTICLE III - OFFICERS
The officers of the club shall be a Commodore, Vice Commodore, and Rear Commodore; hereinafter designated as Flag Officers, a Secretary and a Treasurer.

It shall be the responsibility of all officers of the organization to uphold and enforce the mission and purpose of the organization as set forth in ARTICLE II herein.

No officer shall receive any form of compensation for the position in which they serve.

ARTICLE IV - DUTIES
It shall be the duty of the Commodore to command the association, to preside at all meetings of the club, and to enforce its laws, regulations and decisions of the Board of Directors.

It shall be the duty of the Vice Commodore to assist the Commodore in the discharge of his/her duties and in his/her absence to act in his/her stead.

It shall be the duty of the Rear Commodore to assist the Commodore and the Vice Commodore and in their absence to act in their stead. The Rear Commodore shall arrange and superintend all official races and regattas of the club. The Rear Commodore shall appoint members of the Race Committee.

It shall be the duty of the Secretary to keep a record of all club meetings and of the Board of Directors meetings.

The Secretary shall keep a roster of the officers and committees, a roll of the members and of the boats enrolled in the various fleets.

The Secretary shall report to the club at its annual general meeting and to the Board of Directors as required.

The Treasurer shall collect all moneys due to the club, and shall make such disbursements therefrom as are ordered or approved by the Board of Directors. The Treasurer shall keep account of all club investments and make a report to the club at its annual meeting.

The Commodore may appoint such other committees as required to serve during the term of his/her office.

ARTICLE V - PROPERTY
All property of the club shall be vested in the Board of Directors as trustee for the members thereof, and they shall have power to act for and bind the members of the club, as their agent, in all transactions relating to the property. Said property shall be superintended and managed by the property officer who shall be appointed by the Commodore.

No officer or member shall have ownership interest in the property of the organization.

ARTICLE VI - EMPLOYEES
The Board of Directors shall hire and fix the compensation of any and all employees which in their discretion may determine to be necessary in the conduct of the business of the organization.

ARTICLE VII - STANDING COMMITTEES
The Board of Directors shall consist of five (5) members including the Flag Officers, the Secretary, and the Treasurer. Three (3) members including at least one (1) Flag Officer shall constitute a quorum. All meetings of this committee shall be called by the Commodore, or in his/her absence by the officer next in rank. The ranking officer present shall be chairman of the meeting.

The Board of Directors shall have the general control and direction of the policy and finances of the club and the election of the members thereto. It shall authorize all disbursements and contracts. The Board of Directors may require all other committees and officers to report to it when necessary for the discharge of its duties. The Board of Directors shall report to the club at its annual general meeting, and to any special meeting called for the purpose, as provided in Article VII of this constitution.

The Race Committee shall consist of at least two members and the Rear Commodore. The Rear Commodore may appoint additional members to this committee as is deemed necessary. The Race Committee shall have authority to regulate and control all races and regattas held by the club. It shall decide all questions referred to it by the judges and skippers of competing boats, select and award all prizes offered by the club. The Race Committee shall report to the club at its annual meeting and to the Board of Directors when required.

The Membership Committee shall be appointed by the Commodore. It shall have charge of all applications and shall inform the Board of Directors through the Secretary as to their opinion of each applicant's qualifications for membership.

The Activities Committee will be appointed by the Commodore. The chairman of this committee will check with the Treasurer for availability of funds.

ARTICLE VIII - MEETINGS
The annual general meeting shall be held on or about November 1 or on such date as decided upon by the Board of Directors. The Secretary shall notify in writing all members at least two (2) weeks prior to the annual meeting.

Special meetings may be called by the Commodore at his/her pleasure, or by the written request of one-third of the membership. Such special meetings will be held at the time and place as set forth by the Commodore. Such special meetings shall have power to transact only that specific business for which the meeting was called. The Secretary shall notify in writing at least two weeks in advance the membership and stipulate the business under consideration for any special meeting.

All committee chairmen shall have the authority to arrange and call their own committee meetings at a time and place most convenient to the committee. The Commodore may call for a meeting of any committee as the need may arise.

ARTICLE IX - ELECTIONS
The Commodore, Vice Commodore, Rear Commodore, Secretary, and Treasurer shall be elected at the annual meeting each year by a majority vote of the members present, to serve for a term of one (1) year. The term of the officers shall commence immediately upon election.

A vacancy occurring in the office of Commodore, Vice Commodore, Rear Commodore, Secretary or Treasurer shall be filled by the next ranking officer to the position vacated for the duration of the unexpired term. A replacement may be elected by the unanimous vote of the then remaining members of the Board of Directors at a meeting called for this purpose.

The Board of Directors shall have the authority to fill a vacancy occurring in their own number, for the unexpired term of said vacancy.

ARTICLE X - MEMBERSHIP
Membership shall be on a family or individual basis. Family Membership shall entitle all dependents of a member, resident in his/her household, to general privileges of the club, except voting rights shall be limited to one vote per adult, but not more than two (2) adults per Family Membership. Age eighteen (18) and over shall be considered an adult for memberships purposes.

Individual Membership shall entitle that member to general privileges of the club and voting rights limited to one vote.

No member shall have ownership interest in the property of the organization.

Honorary membership shall be by election of the club by a majority vote. The individuals nominated for the honorary membership shall be selected by the Board of Directors. Honorary members shall pay no dues or fees, nor shall they be able to vote.

Any member accused of breaking the rules of the club or of conduct unbecoming or damaging to the good name of the club shall be notified of such charges and details by the Secretary and given the opportunity to be heard in his/her own behalf before the Board of Directors. Upon such hearing, or upon his/her failure to appear, the Board may, if it finds the charges proved, issue whatever discipline it deems appropriate including but not limited to admonishment (public or private), suspension, and/or forfeiture of membership. Such member has the right of appeal to the club at a special meeting called for that purpose and the membership may by a two-thirds vote of those present reverse the action of the Board and set aside all penalties.

ARTICLE XI - DUES
Annual dues shall be sixty (60) dollars for a Family Membership and thirty (30) dollars for an Individual Membership. Dues may be adjusted by the Board of Directors to meet the financial needs of the club when necessary.

ARTICLE XII - POWER BOAT OWNERS
Owners of power boats shall be entitled to full membership as described in ARTICLE X.

ARTICLE XIII - AMENDMENTS
Amendments shall be by a two-thirds majority of those members present at any meeting specifically called for said amendment. The membership shall be notified in accordance with Article VII.

ARTICLE XIV - DISSOLUTION
Upon the dissolution of the corporation, all assets shall be liquidated and all proceeds applied to the outstanding debts of the organization. After all outstanding debts are paid, any remaining assets shall be distributed to the successor exempt corporation, United States Sailing Association, Box 209, Newport, Rhode Island, 02840, within the meaning of section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code or corresponding section of any future Federal Tax Code or shall be distributed to the Federal Government, or to a state or local government, for a public purpose. Any such assets not so disposed of shall be disposed of by the Court of Common Pleas of the County in which the principal office of the Corporation is then located, exclusively for such purposes or to such organization or organizations, as said Court shall determine, which are organized and operated exclusively for such purposes.

No benefit, except for approved compensation as set forth herein, shall be conferred upon any officer or director upon dissolution.
Hello Tobey,

Here are the answers to your questions -- Most of the LWSA's members own or sail regularly on boats that are on Lake W. Any and all of the sailboats in question are berthed or moored at marinas on the lake or they are berthed or moored at members' private homes. A few are trailered in, but probably less than half a dozen. Before you ask the next logical question. be aware that none of the members' boats or anyone elses' boats will be allowed to be permanently moored or docked at the LWSA's new Sailing Center. On a space available basis, we may allow a member to hook up to a mooring for a few hours, but as you know, you cannot stay overnight on a mooring unless the boat is tethered to the shore. Furthermore, only very shallow draft keel and centerboard boats will be able to even enter the boat basin.

We will be applying for around 30 moorings and we plan to make some of those available for folks coming to the RV Park at Ellacoya. The balance will be used for the Sailing Center's boats, but these are just day boats -- not useful for overnighting. On a space available basis, we may have some room for campers' boats to be tied up to docks in the boat basin.

As you may know, whenever two sailboats are side by side, a race is underway. Most of our organized racing will occur on weekends, but that will generally be in small boats around 15 feet and under and those boats by and large will be racked each night next to our building.

Parking will all take place along the dirt road coming down to the waterfront. There is room there for 75 cars angled in toward Lake Shore Park.

Special events like weddings will be limited to what we need in order to raise enough funds to keep the Sailing Center afloat (pun intended), but any more than what we absolutely need will cut into the use of the facility for its intended purpose and that would not be acceptable.

We have designed the building so we can close up walls on any side we want to make sure noise is kept inder control. We will also agree to shut down the occasional band that might be playing at a very reasonable hour. The alternative is we invite all the campers to join the festivities.

There's no question that an element of good times following a race is a healthy and normal occurrence and there will be those activities from time to time and not just for members. There will also be fund raisers on an occasional basis, but all activities will be carefully controlled so as not to interfere with the campers or the residents of Lake Shore Park. We will expect to be treated the same by Lake Shore Park.

Our facility will only be open for scheduled events and activities. Members and the public will not be able to just drop in for a cocktail or dinner -- this is designed to be a sailing facility, not a yacht club.

As for the Wave Fence, it is being designed and I admit to not having a full sense myself of how it is to be constructed and exactly how it will work, but the goal is to knock down the height of the waves coming in from the North, the Northeast and the Northwest without impacting the flow of sand and silt laden water working its way east and west along the waterfront and some distance out from the beach. I'll let all interested parties know as soon as I know.

Regards,

Tom Mullen, President
Lake Winnipesaukee Sailing Association, Inc.
tntm_71we is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to tntm_71we For This Useful Post:
ApS (10-12-2010)
Old 10-12-2010, 11:18 AM   #72
Tobey
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 7
Thanks: 2
Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post
Default

Golly Gee Tom, I am getting the impression you will say whatever need be said to get this thru. Campers can use docks and moorings if space is available. We can go to the parties and join the fun. Ok, so now i am a "Wedding Crasher".
Only limited functions and parties. heck there are only 8 or 9 weekends in the summer, so you may only have one or 2 functions??
You will shut down noisy bands. Will you be there for every wedding/function?
Is there central air? If not you will keep all windows closed on a hot summer day/night and let the guests sweat?
I like to fish there as well. Did you know that the brook that feeds that location is a spawning area for lake trout and salmon? How will you impact that?
Again, I applaud the kids part of this. It's the rest that scares me and my fellow campers. I have called and emailed a number of them with regards to what is being planned. Although they love the area if it gets too bad they will just travel elsewhere. The State will loose money. Particulary if you do as you say and end up with a One Dollar a year lease. If that happens one of the most profitable parks in the sysytem will be everthing but that.
I'd be interested in knowing just who it is in the state that has okayed this plan. Or, at a minimum, told you to go forward in the planning statge.
Can you share that info with us?
Thanks again
Your freind
Tobey
Tobey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2010, 01:36 PM   #73
VitaBene
Senior Member
 
VitaBene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Moultonborough
Posts: 3,122
Thanks: 1,250
Thanked 1,375 Times in 688 Posts
Default Asked and answered

Tobey, He has answered your questions- you may not like the answers but he has answered them. Please don't try to tell me that the campground is always peaceful and serene. If so, it is unlike any campground I have ever stayed at.

Somehow I think if you and some of your fellow campers decide to find another place to stay, there will be others that will take your spot.
VitaBene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2010, 01:49 PM   #74
Tobey
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 7
Thanks: 2
Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post
Unhappy

Mr Bean, are you a sailor?
Do you know Tom?
Are you a member of the sailing club?

I am asking fair and reasonable questions.
They all have not been answered.
Tobey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2010, 02:49 PM   #75
jrc
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Hollis/Gilford
Posts: 2,688
Thanks: 33
Thanked 437 Times in 247 Posts
Default

I'm a little fuzzy on the docking facilities that are there now. Can people launch boats and dock them now? Is this for the general public or just for people renting a camp site?
jrc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2010, 03:24 PM   #76
OCDACTIVE
Senior Member
 
OCDACTIVE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Fort Myers FL / Moultonboro
Posts: 1,045
Thanks: 444
Thanked 573 Times in 178 Posts
Default ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobey View Post
Mr Bean, are you a sailor?
Do you know Tom?
Are you a member of the sailing club?

I am asking fair and reasonable questions.
They all have not been answered.
I believe you mean Mr. "Bene" if we are getting so nit picky.

What is the significance if they do know each other?

Why would it matter if he was part of the sailing club? Does this make his opinion any less or more valid?

Fair and Reasonable? From my understanding the planning phase is still underway... How is it fair and reasonable to ask what policy will be on air conditioning and windows being open for functions?

While you may have concerns with the impact of the facility I don't think it is prudent to question the organizations intentions on bringing a great activity to the lake and the means in which to do it. This sounds to be a very well thought out and planned facility that takes into account its surroundings and asthetics to the lake and its region.

I think it is you who are trying to find any issue with Mr. Mullen's responses that have been very well thought out and answered to the best extent possible at this point in the process.

I am sure your "large group of campers" that you represent will not be inconvenienced to the extent that you are portraying.

So lets try to keep the questions civil and on target. I think Mr. Mullen has done a very good job in this thread trying to answer each and everyone's concerns, even though many comments could have been viewed as less then inviting.
__________________
Have you had your Vessel Inspected Yet?
OCDACTIVE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2010, 03:52 PM   #77
ishoot308
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Gilford, NH / Welch Island
Posts: 4,303
Thanks: 1,532
Thanked 3,098 Times in 1,193 Posts
Default

I think Mr. Mullen has done an excellent job of DIRECTLY answering all questions and concerns asked of him pertaining to the sailing center in a very courteous manner. I commend him in his responses. And no, I am not a member or have any affiliation to the LWSA nor do I own a sailboat.

Dan
ishoot308 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2010, 03:56 PM   #78
ishoot308
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Gilford, NH / Welch Island
Posts: 4,303
Thanks: 1,532
Thanked 3,098 Times in 1,193 Posts
Default No Launch

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrc View Post
I'm a little fuzzy on the docking facilities that are there now. Can people launch boats and dock them now? Is this for the general public or just for people renting a camp site?
There are no docking facilities there now. There is a soft sand dirt rd which leads into very very shallow water. Only the smallest of boats with 4 WD could possibly launch there. Bizer does not even list this as a launch on there map.

Dan
ishoot308 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to ishoot308 For This Useful Post:
jrc (10-12-2010)
Old 10-12-2010, 06:37 PM   #79
VitaBene
Senior Member
 
VitaBene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Moultonborough
Posts: 3,122
Thanks: 1,250
Thanked 1,375 Times in 688 Posts
Default No

I do not know Mr Mullen, nor ever spoken with him. I am not a member of his organization, nor much of a sailor (though I have a Laser).

I am a supporter of his group because I see the kids sailing and having a blast doing so. My kids are 12 and 15 and I hope they decide to learn to sail.

As a design professional (security consultant), I have been involved in hundreds of construction projects. Mr Mullen has answered the questions that can be answered at this time. It appears to me that they are still very much in the conceptual design phase. As OCD noted, the other questions cannot be reasonably answered yet because the design has not evolved to even the design development phase, let alone construction documents phase.

Mr Mullen, if you have any security needs or considerations, I will gladly donate my time and services to your cause. Send me a PM to discuss further if you are interested.
VitaBene is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to VitaBene For This Useful Post:
Meredith lady (10-24-2011)
Old 10-14-2010, 02:30 PM   #80
SIKSUKR
Senior Member
 
SIKSUKR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 5,073
Thanks: 215
Thanked 895 Times in 506 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ishoot308 View Post
There is a soft sand dirt rd which leads into very very shallow water. Only the smallest of boats with 4 WD could possibly launch there. Dan
My boat doesn't have 4wd so I guess I'm out.It does sound like I'd be fine launching my PWC with my 4wd though.
__________________
SIKSUKR
SIKSUKR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2010, 06:29 PM   #81
tntm_71we
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 30
Thanks: 0
Thanked 23 Times in 9 Posts
Default Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by VitaBene View Post
I do not know Mr Mullen, nor ever spoken with him. I am not a member of his organization, nor much of a sailor (though I have a Laser).

I am a supporter of his group because I see the kids sailing and having a blast doing so. My kids are 12 and 15 and I hope they decide to learn to sail.

As a design professional (security consultant), I have been involved in hundreds of construction projects. Mr Mullen has answered the questions that can be answered at this time. It appears to me that they are still very much in the conceptual design phase. As OCD noted, the other questions cannot be reasonably answered yet because the design has not evolved to even the design development phase, let alone construction documents phase.

Mr Mullen, if you have any security needs or considerations, I will gladly donate my time and services to your cause. Send me a PM to discuss further if you are interested.
Hello Vita Bene,

I would like to be in contact with you. Please e-mail me at tntmullen@owlsnestgolf.com with an e-mail address. Thanks

Tom Mullen
tntm_71we is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2010, 06:33 PM   #82
tntm_71we
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 30
Thanks: 0
Thanked 23 Times in 9 Posts
Default Do You Have All My Answers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobey View Post
Mr Bean, are you a sailor?
Do you know Tom?
Are you a member of the sailing club?

I am asking fair and reasonable questions.
They all have not been answered.
Hello Tobey,

I have tried to answer all of your question, but there was no response to my last post. Are you satisfied with those answers and/or do you have any more questions or concerns I can address at this time. Thanks for involving yourself in the dialogue.

Regards,

Tom Mullen
tntm_71we is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2010, 05:14 PM   #83
HUH
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 230
Thanks: 21
Thanked 14 Times in 8 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ishoot308 View Post
There are no docking facilities there now. There is a soft sand dirt rd which leads into very very shallow water. Only the smallest of boats with 4 WD could possibly launch there. Bizer does not even list this as a launch on there map.

Dan
Thank god..
HUH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2010, 05:17 AM   #84
ApS
Senior Member
 
ApS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Winnipesaukee & Florida
Posts: 4,494
Thanks: 929
Thanked 433 Times in 317 Posts
Post Hope is NOT On The Way...

Quote:
Originally Posted by VitaBene View Post
I am a supporter of his group because I see the kids sailing and having a blast doing so. My kids are 12 and 15 and I hope they decide to learn to sail...Mr Mullen, if you have any security needs or considerations, I will gladly donate my time and services to your cause. Send me a PM to discuss further if you are interested.
Perhaps Mr. Mullen has discussed instruction for your kids.

Excellence in sailing is complicated, and racing among sailboats even more so. The 15-year-old is unlikely to take up this study and a Laser is also not the boat to begin this study. IMHO.

Study of both racing and sailing needs to be nourished from an earlier age—and even 12 is borderline-late. While I understand the need for "befriending", one should use the "bully-pulpit" that is Parenting, and actually encourage sailing instruction.

In our culture, the spirit of competition remains a healthy one, and one cannot learn it too young.

JMHO.
ApS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2010, 10:01 AM   #85
VitaBene
Senior Member
 
VitaBene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Moultonborough
Posts: 3,122
Thanks: 1,250
Thanked 1,375 Times in 688 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acres per Second View Post
Perhaps Mr. Mullen has discussed instruction for your kids.

Excellence in sailing is complicated, and racing among sailboats even more so. The 15-year-old is unlikely to take up this study and a Laser is also not the boat to begin this study. IMHO.

Study of both racing and sailing needs to be nourished from an earlier age—and even 12 is borderline-late. While I understand the need for "befriending", one should use the "bully-pulpit" that is Parenting, and actually encourage sailing instruction.

In our culture, the spirit of competition remains a healthy one, and one cannot learn it too young.

JMHO.
Agreed on the competition aspect of life and its importance in our culture. They are both heavily involved in Moultonborough Academy sports including baseball, volleyball, alpine and nordic skiing so I am not too concerned about that. I will note that my 15 yo son has taken up the sport of girl chasin' so boating is on the back burner!

We have led both kids to the proverbial "sailing water" but neither have embraced it. We will see, but I agree, the older they get the less likely they are to pick it up.
VitaBene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2010, 05:16 AM   #86
ApS
Senior Member
 
ApS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Winnipesaukee & Florida
Posts: 4,494
Thanks: 929
Thanked 433 Times in 317 Posts
Cool Leading by Example...

1) Mr. Bean:

Alpine and Nordic skiing is especially damaging to young joints and limbs. (I know ).

Without intervention, those problems don't improve with age, and I'll wager many here on this forum can attest to that. Many here already have mentioned joint surgeries.

Just down the street from Gunstock's ski-slopes is an orthopedic clinic!

2) Mr. Mullen has stated that "any two sailboats is a race": Having vanquished many an "advantaged" boat, I can agree with that.

Try buying a second Laser, then "Lead By Example".

I guarantee you will eventually lose any advantage you claim through "Age and Experience".

3) Mr. Mullen:

There is no shoreline more difficult to sail from, than one that faces into Winnipesaukee's prevailing wind. Expect beginning sailors—especially—to damage every sailboat under this circumstance.

Into which direction does this proposed shoreline face?
ApS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2010, 12:07 PM   #87
tntm_71we
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 30
Thanks: 0
Thanked 23 Times in 9 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acres per Second View Post
1) Mr. Bean:

Alpine and Nordic skiing is especially damaging to young joints and limbs. (I know ).

Without intervention, those problems don't improve with age, and I'll wager many here on this forum can attest to that. Many here already have mentioned joint surgeries.

Just down the street from Gunstock's ski-slopes is an orthopedic clinic!

2) Mr. Mullen has stated that "any two sailboats is a race": Having vanquished many an "advantaged" boat, I can agree with that.

Try buying a second Laser, then "Lead By Example".

I guarantee you will eventually lose any advantage you claim through "Age and Experience".

3) Mr. Mullen:

There is no shoreline more difficult to sail from, than one that faces into Winnipesaukee's prevailing wind. Expect beginning sailors—especially—to damage every sailboat under this circumstance.

Into which direction does this proposed shoreline face?
Hello Acres Per Second,

You are absolutely correct that beginning sailors would have a degree of difficulty sailing off a lee shore and oftentimes, Ellacoya is just that when the winds are strong out of the north or the northwest. To evaluate this issue regarding Ellacoya, nearly every morning and sometimes in the afternoons as well, as I travelled between Glendale and my home on Welch Island, I buzzed down to Ellacoya to give consideration to this matter. During the summer months when we are teaching the kids how to sail, it turns out, at least this most recent summer, that northwest was not the predominant wind direction. Winds this past summer, especially during July and August when our Youth Sailing School is in session, were out of the south and the west far more often than from the northwest making Ellacoya a very sheltered sailing venue.

It appears that during the fall, the predominant wind pattern shifts to the northwest and we will have to deal with this reality as we structure our approach to sailing instruction. In the fall, we will be teaching adults more often than not and there will be times that we may not be able to risk taking inexperienced sailors in boats off the moorings and out of the boat basin.

Fortunately the lake bottom all along Ellacoya is sandy and pretty shallow so when and if a boat does go aground, getting the small, light boats we use upright is not an especially difficult task.

To confirm my observations, I downloaded the wind data from the Laconia Airport for the period from May 1st theough the middle of October and there were only five days during that entire period when the data suggested we would have to curtail operations for Youth Sailing and only therr of those were during the months the school is in session.

These are realities we can live with as the pro's at Ellacoya far outweigh the con's. Thanks for weighing in on the issues and please keep your comments and or concerns coming so we can be sure to cover all the possible issues during these planning stages.

Regards,

Tom Mullen
tntm_71we is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to tntm_71we For This Useful Post:
Reilly (10-24-2010)
Old 10-24-2010, 01:04 PM   #88
Tobey
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 7
Thanks: 2
Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post
Default

Into which direction does this proposed shoreline face? [/QUOTE]


It faces directly into the North West - west wind.

Almost everytime I RV there I see this nasty wind at one time or another.
Tobey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2010, 03:46 PM   #89
tntm_71we
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 30
Thanks: 0
Thanked 23 Times in 9 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobey View Post
Into which direction does this proposed shoreline face?

It faces directly into the North West - west wind.

Almost everytime I RV there I see this nasty wind at one time or another.[/QUOTE]

Hello Tobey,

You're right! The wind that comes out of the north by northwest toward Ellacoya can be very strong and there is a pretty good fetch so that when it's windy from that direction, the waves are also pretty high.

Using the data from the Laconia Airport weather station and from personal observations during the period from May 1st through October 16th, I came up with twelve days between 8:00 am to 8:00 pm, the normal operating hours that the new Sailing Center would be open and that sailors might be out on the water, that I would put into the category of unsafe and imprudent to be out on the water unless the sailor(s) are very competent. Of those twelve days, five were days that we would be flying the No Sailing Today Flag.

So, five days out of 199 days, or 2.5% of the 2010 sailing season, we would not have allowed the Sailing Center's boats to be out on the water. For nine additional days during this same period, or 4.5% of the sailing season, we would have required proof of competency before the Sailing Center's boats could have left the docks.

During the period that the Sailing School normally operates from late June through late August, there were three days that it was too windy out of the northwest (315 degrees) around to the northeast (45 degrees) to go out on the water if the school had been functioning at Ellacoya. Fortunately, the waters around Ellacoya are pretty well sheltered when the winds blow heavily from the east (90 degrees) around through the south all the way to the west-northwest (290 degrees).

Because we have been operating for nearly thirty years out of Inner Smith Cove at Fay's Boatyard, we have developed fairly ingenious ways of getting from those waters out to where there is wind by towing our sailboats in a chain using a power boat. There may be times at Ellacoya when we may have to tow the boats up into the lee of Welch Island or around the point and down to the waters off Ames Farm Inn to get to waters where the wind allows us to teach the students effectively.

I assure you that we have weighed these types of issues carefully before making a decision to move to Ellacoya. Where we sail now borders on being dangerous for the youngsters because of boat traffic. The waters off Ellacoya are not within a passage zone and are not, therefore, heavily traveled. The areas around Varney Point, Lockes Island and Belknap Point are an accident waiting to happen.

Over the years, because of inclement weather, sometimes too much wind and occasionally, no wind, we have learned how to use these down times by operating in a classroom format with a chalkboard, photos, a model boat, a full sized Opti right in the room, DVD's and ropes for tying knots. Bad weather days don't go to waste in the LWSA's Youth Sailing School.

Because it's so shallow at Ellacoya, we will be able to teach the little ones in our fleet of Optimist Prams with an instructor standing in the water right next to the boats without having to follow them around in a chase boat -- a novel approach that I have seen work very effectively in the British Virgin Islands. The kids actually sail in a tight circle right around the instructors getting constant tips on sail trim and various maneuvers.

Ellacoya has its drawbacks we will learn to live with and it has advantages we will exploit to the betterment of our programs. It is our conclusion that the advantages far outweigh the drawbacks and it is our goal to be in full operation by July of 2012.

Regards,

Tom Mullen
tntm_71we is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2010, 02:58 AM   #90
Lucky1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Moultonborough and FL
Posts: 459
Thanks: 318
Thanked 123 Times in 53 Posts
Default

I think my daughter took up sailing around age 15.
Lucky1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2010, 10:27 AM   #91
Tobey
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 7
Thanks: 2
Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post
Default

Tom, I am curious. Not being from the region I do not know of all the the other potential spots on the lake that would/could accomadate your program. I do understand the lake is very very large. Have you looked elswhere?
I am not against the kids sailing program, it's just the fact I am having a hard time dealing with the thought this park may not be as enjoyable for us RV folks due to continual traffic on the east side road to beach and noise associated with functions that may go on. Guess you do need them (functions) to support your cause.

Thanks for listening and replying. Maybe this is not so bad as I find myself searching other RV opportunites in New England. Maybe I'll try the Ocean parks.

Last edited by Tobey; 10-30-2010 at 10:28 AM. Reason: spelling
Tobey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2010, 10:57 AM   #92
fatlazyless
Senior Member
 
fatlazyless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,436
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 196
Thanked 501 Times in 374 Posts
Default

Here's a suggestion: While the Ellacoya State Beach & RV Park charges $47/night, the US Forest Service operates 23 different campgrounds in the White Mountain National Forest in NH and just over the border, in Maine, that cost $16/night, plus further discounts (senior-65 pass or something) are available. While the WMNF Campgrounds do not have any utility hookups like water-sewer-electricity-cable, some have showers and toilets w/ running water, and all have campsites with a picnic table, campfire pit, parking for two vehicles, composting toilets, trash dumpsters, potable water, volunteer campground supervisors on-site, and Forest Service law enforcement (cops), plus the locations were picked for their highly desirable geography such as a view, river, lake etc.

So, what's not to like......$16-federal....or $47-state?

In addition, the federal campgrounds are exempt of the State of NH, 9% lodging & meals tax, which applies to State RV Campgrounds like Ellecoya....because they are federal.

http://www.newhampshire.com/outdoors...tn-forest.aspx

....

If you want a campground on a big water lake, the State of Maine has a good one on Sebago Lake, about one hour from Moultonborough.

http://www.maine.gov/cgi-bin/online/...search_info.pl and scroll down to Sebago Lake State Park for a 250 rv campsite, State of Maine campground, within a 1400-acre state park on Sebago lake, which is a lake that is a little larger in area than Lake Winnipesaukee. ...just a thought...
__________________
Down & out, livn that Walmart side of the lake!

Last edited by fatlazyless; 10-30-2010 at 06:14 PM.
fatlazyless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2010, 02:31 PM   #93
tntm_71we
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 30
Thanks: 0
Thanked 23 Times in 9 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobey View Post
Tom, I am curious. Not being from the region I do not know of all the the other potential spots on the lake that would/could accomadate your program. I do understand the lake is very very large. Have you looked elswhere?
I am not against the kids sailing program, it's just the fact I am having a hard time dealing with the thought this park may not be as enjoyable for us RV folks due to continual traffic on the east side road to beach and noise associated with functions that may go on. Guess you do need them (functions) to support your cause.

Thanks for listening and replying. Maybe this is not so bad as I find myself searching other RV opportunites in New England. Maybe I'll try the Ocean parks.
Hello Tobey,

Your thoughts, comments and concerns, presented in your recent post in a very constructive manner by the way, deserve a similiar response. The possibility that our use of the Ellacoya waterfront might disturb occupants of the RV facility is very much in the forefront of our minds. You are already there and we're new on the scene. Just that fact alone means we have an obligation to go to considerable lengths to minimize and hopefull prevent any disruption of your enjoyment of the campground.

The LWSA will bring change to Ellacoya. We are cognizant of this fact and we must, therefore, do all that we can to have those changes be net positive. It would be ludicrous for us to try to pretend that the heightened level of activity created by our presence will be welcomed by everyone. As you point out, and as I have already anticipated, there will be a lot more vehicles going up and down the east side road that borders one row of the RV sites. This means we will need to consider improvements to and along that roadway to make sure we don't negatively impact the use of the sites. Here are some of the measures I am considering employing, obviously, subject to approval from DRED:

1. Dust stirred up by cars will be a problem. I am hopeful we can get that roadway hard surfaced. This is about a $45,000 expense and I will be trying to get this donated by one or more of the local firms in the paving business. Another option could be surfacing the roadway with crushed stone. Regardless of the cost factors involved, the dust stirred up by passing cars during hot, dry periods will have to be addressed and effectively dealt with.

2. The visual aesthetics of having cars passing by a campsite on a regular basis also leave something to be desired. I believe we can reduce the visual impact of this reality by placing a fence down the length of the wooden guardrail that's there now. Again, this will be a substantial cost item
that could bust our budget, but it is needs to be addressed.

3. Functions in the building will be a necessary evil as the income from same will be a crucial factor in the affordability of the complex. For the sake of the residents of Lake Shore Park and the RV sites as well, the LWSA will have to curtail the hours of and the number of attendees at such events to be sure the impact of such things as bands and outdoor events do not unduly encroach on the peace of neighboring sites. This will be a multi-faceted sailing center and holding functions will be incidental to the use of the facility -- necessary, but limited in scope and frequency.

I am a bit troubled by your comment that you are starting to look elsewhere for other RV sites to visit out of concern that the character of Ellacoya, once our sailing center is located there, may not be to your liking. I believe the LWSA's presence there will change some of the site's character, but I also believe those changes will be positive in nature and not intrusive. I believe the visual impact of what we'll be doing will be interesting and enjoyable. Sitting at a picnic bench along the seawall to the west of our complex and watching our Sailing School students learning how to sail will be fun and visually enjoyable. I am confident that the residents of Lake Shore Park will learn, not only to accept the presence of the new Sailing Center, but they will embrace it as a fundemental improvement in the quality of the Park's residents' lives, especially the Park's youngsters.

For many years, the LWSA has been on the lookout for other sites along the lake for this new facility. Even now, as we move forward with the design and approval process, we welcome any thoughts or suggestions as to alternative sites. Because the costs of building the complex will be daunting, the cost of purchasing a site would have to be deminimis. The location pretty much in the middle of the lake on a north/south basis is also strategically important and Ellacoya fits that bill perfectly.

Tobey, give us a chance to get established and up and operating before you conclude you need to go elsewhere with your RV for peace and quiet. One of the reasons the LWSA likes the site is for its natural beauty and its tranquility. There will be a noticeable increase in the amount of activity once we're up and running, but there will also be extended periods when that level of activity will be very restrained and minimal. At all times, I promise you, we will be taking our neighbors' desires for peaceful enjoyment of their properties into consideration and acting accordingly!

Regards,

Tom Mullen, President
Lake Winnipesaukee Sailing Association, Inc.
tntm_71we is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to tntm_71we For This Useful Post:
Meredith lady (10-24-2011), VitaBene (10-30-2010)
Old 10-30-2010, 08:53 PM   #94
fatlazyless
Senior Member
 
fatlazyless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,436
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 196
Thanked 501 Times in 374 Posts
Default

Hello Tom....so's I got a question for you.....if I want to mail a fifty dollar check to help pay to build the new Winnipesaukee sailing school at Ellacoya....then where does it get mailed.....and to what should the check be made payable to?
__________________
Down & out, livn that Walmart side of the lake!
fatlazyless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2010, 08:38 AM   #95
VtSteve
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,313
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 230
Thanked 358 Times in 167 Posts
Default

I must say Tom, you've certainly made the case for you being a desirable neighbor. You've brought up points that show you're not only thinking about adverse consequences, but that you care about adjoining impacts.

I don;t think it's a stretch to say that the LWSA could be considered an asset to all if everyone joins in to properly fund it, and access is available and even complementary.

Is there any plausible way that boat launching and other services could be made available to the campers? This could be yet another source of revenue, not to mention sailing lessons and the like.

Just thinking out loud here. You've presented a good case.
VtSteve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2010, 02:15 PM   #96
tntm_71we
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 30
Thanks: 0
Thanked 23 Times in 9 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by VtSteve View Post
I must say Tom, you've certainly made the case for you being a desirable neighbor. You've brought up points that show you're not only thinking about adverse consequences, but that you care about adjoining impacts.

I don;t think it's a stretch to say that the LWSA could be considered an asset to all if everyone joins in to properly fund it, and access is available and even complementary.

Is there any plausible way that boat launching and other services could be made available to the campers? This could be yet another source of revenue, not to mention sailing lessons and the like.

Just thinking out loud here. You've presented a good case.
Hello VtSteve,

It's pretty simple -- treat your neighbors the way you'd like them to treat you! We will need a lot of help to get this complex built and that help will need to flow from a lot of people who don't sail, at least not yet.

With the permission of the State of New Hampshire's Parks & Recreation Division and with the involvement of the Marine Division of the Department of Public Safety, we fully intend to make boat launching available to the campers and to others who currently have the right to access the launching ramp at Ellacoya that the LWSA will be improving as part of its construction program.

All of our programs for children and adults will be open to public participation and we hope to make the phrase "Ready About" part of the vocabulary for hundreds of Granite Staters and visitors to the Lakes Region.

By the way, I neglected to tell FatLazyLess in my last response to his post about donations that when a donation is made of $25 or more after June 30th, the donor also gets a Membership in the LWSA for the balance of the current year and for all of the coming year as well.

Thanks for thinking out loud -- it's music to my ears!!!

Regards,

Tom Mullen, President
Lake Winnipesaukee Sailing Association, Inc.
tntm_71we is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2010, 07:14 AM   #97
whalley1
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 3
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default information



I wish someone would clear up some of the information on this thread.

For example isn't Ellacoya Park only 31 acres with the rest across the road
and listed as forestry by the State?

On the post dated 10-04-2010, 10:40 AM - the bath house is listed with a 12' dimension. I believe it is much bigger and will measure it next time I am up there unless someone already knows the real dimensions.

Any update on the wavefence design?
whalley1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2010, 07:53 AM   #98
fatlazyless
Senior Member
 
fatlazyless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,436
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 196
Thanked 501 Times in 374 Posts
Default

Some photographs, including an aereal photo, would be real informative here. Have you seen the courtesy aereal photo made by Bill Hemmel of the Laconia Library at www.laconialibrary.org .... one good aereal photo taken on a sunny day can go a long way...
__________________
Down & out, livn that Walmart side of the lake!
fatlazyless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2010, 09:59 AM   #99
whalley1
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 3
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default correcting information

I measured the current bath house and it measures 26' x 48' - This does not count the overhangs - 4 ft in opposite directions! I am amazed that Mr. Mullen never choose to correct this or some of the other incorrect information. This makes me very skeptical.

A NH taxpayer and LSP Club member.
whalley1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2010, 03:57 PM   #100
tntm_71we
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 30
Thanks: 0
Thanked 23 Times in 9 Posts
Default

Hello Mr. Whalley,

Season's Greetings to you and your family!

I think you are saying to me that the size of the existing bath house adjacent to our proposed pavilion is larger than we have shown on the Site Plan. I take your word for that and I will make sure our team double checks the dimensions to make sure we have the existing building properly sized on the final plans. Please understand that the drawings to date are preliminary in nature and that far more precise field measurements will be completed so that the final plans are absolutely correct.

Thanks for bringing this matter to our consideration and I assure you we will have very accurate and complete measurements of all existing site conditions before moving forward.

You indicate that some other information I have provided is incorrect. Will you please make me aware of what information provided to date falls into the incorrect category and I will attempt to address any and all concerns forthwith. It is our intent to be accurate and complete with all of our disclosures in the interest of fully informing LSP as to our intentions at Ellacoya.

If I am not mistaken, your name is one of the names I have been given as being a member of a group at LSP looking into our project. As in the past, I am available to meet with you and others to make sure you are fully informed as to out intentions. Name the time and place and I will do my best to be available.

Sincerely,

Tom Mullen, President
Lake Winnipesaukee Sailing Center, Inc.
tntm_71we is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:10 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.

This page was generated in 0.38639 seconds