Lake Winnipesaukee fisheries

Hello All

A prior message thread regarding various fisheries issues at Lake Winnipesaukee (and pertinent statewide) was recently brought to my attention. After reading many of the questions and comments posted, I felt clarification and information was needed on several points.

The New Hampshire Fish and Game Department (NHFGD) has not transplanted a different strain of largemouth bass into Lake Winnipesaukee or any other water bodies. As noted, there are two principle strains of largemouth bass – northern and southern or “Florida” strains. The northern strain is present in New Hampshire water bodies. Note the difference between “strain” and “species”. In general terms, a strain is a variant (due to particular traits) of a particular species. Different strains of the same species have evolved through natural means such as geographical and watershed separation, and fisheries managers have also created them through selective breeding in hatcheries. Two different strains of the same species can interbreed freely and produce viable offspring with a combination of the parental traits. Generally speaking, different fish species cannot interbreed (e.g. a largemouth bass and a lake trout); however, of those that do (usually within the same family and in many instances unintentionally), the resulting offspring called “hybrids” may not be viable and in many cases are sterile (e.g. splake, a sterile cross between brook trout and lake trout).

Many folks are surprised to learn a substantial number of New Hampshire’s most popular gamefish species are not native to the state, including largemouth and smallmouth bass, landlocked salmon, and rainbow trout. These introduced species have been part of our angling history and “waterscape” for so many years most would consider them “naturalized” today. In an attempt to expand angling opportunities for bass, the NHFGD and its predecessors have introduced smallmouth and largemouth bass into hundreds of suitable water bodies for the past 100+ years. By the end of 1880, 140 water bodies had already been stocked by NHFGD’s earliest predecessor, the New Hampshire Commissioners on Fisheries. Smallmouth bass were first directly introduced into Lake Winnipesaukee in 1873 by the Commissioners, but may have found their way into the lake several years earlier via the outlet of Rust Pond in Wolfeboro (Rust Pond was the first lake in the state stocked with bass, by private individuals). Largemouth, which were not introduced by the state, first showed up sometime in the 1950’s in Lake Winnipesaukee. Both species are naturally sustaining (no stocking) statewide, and their populations in Lake Winnipesaukee, in their respective environments, are in excellent condition.

The NHFGD monitors both coldwater (e.g. landlocked salmon, lake and rainbow trout) and warmwater (e.g. largemouth and smallmouth bass) species through a variety of methods. A Warmwater Species Coordinator/Fisheries Biologist on staff conducts numerous surveys (e.g. electroshocking, trap netting) to monitor and determine the status of bass populations. For example, last year electroshocking studies were conducted on Lake Winnipesaukee to monitor young-of-the-year (first year of life) largemouth and smallmouth bass. Additionally, forage (bait, food) fish populations are monitored annually through hydroacoustic (sonar) and trawl net surveys, in order to balance salmonid stocking rates (overstocking salmon and rainbow trout can have negative impacts on forage fish abundance). Healthy forage-fish populations (e.g. rainbow smelt, juvenile yellow and white perch) are beneficial to both coldwater and warmwater species alike.

One of the greatest threats to the fisheries resources we enjoy statewide and in Lake Winnipesaukee is the illegal transfer of fish and other aquatic organisms. Transferring fish to any water body other than where caught is STRICTLY ILLEGAL. As noted above, many of our popular fisheries have been “derived” from historically non-native species. However, introductions of newly introduced exotic species can have severe negative ecological impacts to our present “naturalized” recreational fisheries, through the disruption of food webs and spread of disease, among other numerous concerns. I encourage everyone to be a lake steward and report any suspicious activity to the Operation Game Thief toll-free number, 1-800-344-4262, or contact Law Enforcement at NHFGD Concord HQ, (603) 271-3127. In the case of witnessing a possible illegal transfer or other questionable activities, at the very least try to get a physical description of the suspected perpetrator(s) and obtain the license plate/boat registration number and vehicle/water craft description. Legal action will be taken against anyone participating, at any level, in the illegal transfer of fish and other aquatic species.

The presence of rock bass in Lake Winnipesaukee was confirmed last year. I have personally caught rock bass in the Greens Basin area, and we have confirmed reports of their existence in Smith Cove, along with other unconfirmed reports around the lake (many folks may be confusing them with black crappie, but nonetheless rock bass are DEFINITELY present). The long-term impacts of their introduction (yes, very recent and very illegal) remain to be seen, but it is important to remember any new species added to an established fish community can have adverse impacts – rock bass in of themselves, though not a desired species for most New Hampshire anglers, are not the sole cause of fisheries problems. It is the competition for particular niche (living space, food) any new/invasive species may create, regardless of what the particular species may be. Whether individuals transfer these species out of spite, to create fisheries for species they personally desire, or unintentionally is a matter of speculation. However, numerous illegal transfers have been traced as intentional, and in the case of Lake Winnipesaukee, where rock bass have not been documented for 100+ years until now, it is highly likely their transfer was deliberate and with malicious intent.

Although it is likely some messages are posted strictly for the purpose of “trolling”, the topic of illegal fish transfers is quite serious. The inconsiderate actions of a few can have enormous negative impacts upon fisheries resources enjoyed by many, and in turn local and state economies. Fishing for both coldwater and warmwater species in New Hampshire, particularly in the Lakes Region, is an integral part of New Hampshire’s history, economy, and beloved past time for many. Let’s do our part to insure future generations have the opportunity to enjoy the fisheries resources we all so cherish.

Please feel free to contact Don Miller or myself at the Region 2 Office in New Hampton if you have any additional questions regarding the above or future topics.

John A. Viar
Fisheries Biologist I
New Hampshire Fish and Game Department
Region 2 Office
PO Box 417
New Hampton NH 03256
(603) 744-5470
jviar@nhfgd.org

Donald Miller
Large Lake Fisheries Biologist
New Hampshire Fish and Game Department
Region 2
New Hampton NH 03256
(603) 744-5470
dmiller@nhfgd.org

Thank you for the post John, very well-written. Is there anything that F&G can do to control the rock bass population in the big lake? I just don't want to see the fishery on Winni suffer the same fate as Sunapee.

John,

Thank you for taking the time to provide this valuable information.

John/NH

John, Thank you for the very informative post. Keep up the wonderful work that your department does in maintaining our fisheries!

Great post John. Thank you for setting the record straight. Am I the only one who noticed that fish and game feel that the rock bass was introduced intentionally and with malice to the lake? Lets see... they are found in back water areas (greens basin and smiths cove) typical largemouth bass areas. Hmmmmmmmmmmm???? wonder who would do that??? Certainly not bass fisherman since the rock bass would directly compete with the largemouth for food and living space... Hmmmmmmmmmm??? who could it be that doing this? Who is it that dislikes the bassfishermen the most?? Who would benefit if the bassfishermen went away and didnt fish in "THEIR" lake???? Very interesting dont you think????Makes you wonder who the bad guy really is hu??

Rich,

Come on they wouldn't be smart enough to do this and where would they get them? I don't know of any sushi places around here that sell live Rock Bass. They are probably still trying to figure out why they keep releasing 4 pound lobsters off their docks only to have them wash up on the beach the next day. Those bass boats must be running them over.....

To get back on topic. Thanks F&G for a great post and all your hard work. My 3 and 6 year olds love to fish and your efforts will hopefully give them a lifetime of enjoyment.

Just an FYI Mr. Viar and others, I have been catching rock bass on winni in the lee's mills area for the last 4 to 5 years. Thought this might help.

Who are you talking about Rich L? Do you have info on someone putting rock bass in winni?

John, Thanks for taking time out from your schedule to write such an informative post. this forum has literally hundreds of readers (NH residents and seasonal/secondary residents) who care about our lakes, their conditions, and the wildlife and fisheries associated with them.

It is gratifying to see a public employee take the time to inform and educate us. Thanks again.

How interesting to learn that bass were introduced to the state through Rust Pond. As a kid, I had a friend with a place there, and we did some great snorkeling and boating around the lake -- and took some plunges off of the old Hill School summer camp's tower. My dad attended summer school there as a kid living in Tuftonboro. My old friend Dave (from home), who frequents this site and whose family had the place on Rust Pond, has just started taking his own family back up to the Lake over the past 3-4 years after a 20+ year absence. I hope he reads the F&G post. Many thanks! gfe

John, I remember back sometime I think Spring of 2003 someone wrote into the Forum about someone purchasing small turtles from Boston and putting them into Lake Winni. Wouldn't this also be illegal?

And how do you go about finding out who put them into the lake?

Rock bass, my hat.




Supposed "Rock Bass"

Thanks for the insight! A good lesson in the business of maintaining the fishery. Your note made the news. They even put the web site link in the article. More readers for our virtual community. -lg




http://www.theunionleader.com/articl...?article=34970

and winni.com makes the news again!




http://www4.citizen.com/news2004/Mar..._03_24.04b.asp

http://www.theunionleader.com/articles_showa.html?article=34970

are there any fish that you could put into the lake that might eat milfoil? has that ever been tried?

That is indeed a picture of a rock bass. The only error I can see in the article is that they said that the rock bass isnt a bass but a member of the sunfish family. Well both largemouth and smallmouth arn't true bass either. They too are members of the sunfish family. But the picture and description of the rock bass were accurate.

What's your version of a Rock Bass?

Picture, please...

With multiple tours on Winnipesaukee every weekend ice out through mid October, coupled with the continuing release of the shallow water warm water species, Largemouth Bass continually released at the deep site, Ames farm (a non-largemouth habitat), further coupled with the flagrant introduction to Rock Bass - Winnipesaukees future is self explanatory. In just 5 years the bass fishing has decrease in quality by leaps and bounds. There is no disputing this anyone doing so is living in disneyland. I have fished the lake for 15 years, and the big lake is on its way to trouble in regard to smallmouth and largemouth. The introduction of Rock Bass is just another preverbal nail.

Take a look at the tours scheduled for Winnisquam this year. Every single solitary weekend, on a lake that CANNOT take that kind of pressure. This lake has seen an incredible decline in quality smallmouth fishing. In a tour last fall only (1) 8 fish limit came to the scales. Sadly there was a time 5 years ago there would be (5-10) 8 fish bags in the 22 plus range and up to 25 pounds per 8 were not uncommon. With 20-30 days out there a season fun fishing, I have seen it decline 10 fold. Maines lottery system is something that NH needs and MUST adopt, to control number of Tours per season, on our precious NH BASS waters. Maines fishing now after fishing up there for 10 years and comparison to NH waters now - Maine outranks NH by leaps and bounds literally.

Couldnt disagree with you more. The fishing is just as good. All the tournaments I see on Winni still take 22+ lbs to win with 8 fish. It still takes 5 fish 13-14 lbs to win in club events. I too have been fishing winni for almost 15 years (12) When the limits were dropped from 10 to 8 for team events that changed the tactics people used. When it was a 10 fish limit I and lots of people would go for smallies exclusivly. With an 8 fish limit you need to go after largies to get into the mid 20's in weight. As far as Winnisquam goes that lake has always been hot and cold. WE had a club touny there the last 2 years in a row and 3 out of the last 4. Last year it took 14+ lbs to win year before it was only 10 lbs to win. Two years earlier 14+ again. The fish are there. Its just that everyone knows all the good spots now. You ahve to try harder and spend more time trying to find new spots. My partner and I spent all last year fishing totally new stuff we had never tried before. We had no problen getting all the 3lb smallies we could handle and found some great largies too. Bass are home bodies in that they return to their home range after release. How long it takes I dont know but studies in INFISHERMAN magazine suggest that after a short rest they start back right away.

Rock Bass are of the Sunfish family




http://www.cnr.vt.edu/efish/families/centrarchidae.html

Angler1,

I couldn't disagree more. Winnisquam is very healthy and bags of 22 to 25 lbs are very common. It's just like any lake, spend some time learning the every changing habits of smallies and largies and you will not be disappointed. Last year, in August when the fishing is normally difficult, I won an event with a friend of mine on Winnisquam with a 25 lb bag // 8 fish // only 2 Largies in the 3 1/2 lb range = 6 big smallies ( 1 almost 5 lbs.).

John/NH

Tetraploid Amur have been tried. I have 6 in my 1 acre pond in OHIO and they eat everything including my waterlillies. They do not reproduce. Has NHFG thought about a few in places like Smith cove??

Right on the money Angler1 regarding the comparison between Maine and New Hampshire fisheries. Most anyone who has any intelligence can clearly see why. Just in case you cannot it is quite simple, a REASONABLE number of bass tournaments, not unlimited as is the case in NH. Unfortunately most bass tournament anglers are like drug or alcohol addicts, they won't/can't admit there is a problem. Guess it is some kind of sickness. OH well, it will be just a matter of time before they get tired of the declining catch rates on these lakes and move on somewhere else. All you have to do is take a look at what is happening to lake champlain in VT. Ever since a few professional bass tournaments were held there some years back the place is getting beat to death by the bass tournaments and already the weights are starting to decline.

Yes, Champlain is extra big so it will take decades, however NH Resident, I'll have you know that I have 18 years behind me on the NH Tournament trails, I am just being honest and realistic now. We MUST for NH and the sake of it's fisheries go to a LOTTERY system for Tours and have only REASONABLE amount of events on each water body per year. It is going to happen in NH and hopefully sooner than later, Maine is surviving with this LOTTERY permit system, so NH can too. As far as the 8 bag limits of 25 LBS fro John/NH, these are getting rare, anyway, can they please explain why there are not 10-25 8 fish bags of 24 lbs or better anymore ? ? ? Too much pressure = too much mortality.

Would be interested to see Mr. Viar could get in on this post also and see what the experts have to say if they monitor the bass. All I can add is that I have 30+ years of fishing in on the lake and it used to be alot more common to catch a 4lb-4.5lb smallie than it is now. I can't even remember the last one I got in that range.

As for the numbers of bass, there certainly is alot of them there. I have seen schools of 30-40 fish crash the sand flats in 19&20 mile bays at one time. There are times when it is tough to find a 3 pounder.

Thanks for the great post. It brings to mind a question. You state that salmon are not native to the state. What were the native fish and what did the Indians catch at the weirs? I guess I always assumed salmon. Or were there sea run salmon prior to the installation of any dams? Or lakers, or what? Just curious... Thanks again.

He did speak on that matter and said the bass are doing fine. Of course there are less bass now then 30 years ago. No one fished for them then. Bass fishing is becoming more and more popular. Guys are getting better at it too. There is a leveling of point I believe. You will have only so many fisherman. Its like anything else . Only so many people in a general area will enjoy it and get into it. same thing as sailboating, gardening and antiqueing or any other hobby. Like you say there are still plenty. If you view the creel sensuses from fish and game for Winni you will see that in excess of 5000 bass are caught and recorded in tournaments every year. year after year. The average weight per fish remains relatively the same. that 5000 doesn't take into account fish not documented by recreational fisherman and tourney guys just practicing and releasing fish right away.

Eels were a popular catch...

Brook trout and atlantic salmon were caught by the ton in the weirs by the indians.

Angler1 & NH Resident:

First of all, there have never been 10 to 25 -- 8 fish limits of 24 lbs. at a tournament. Perhaps you should contact NH Fish & Game ( Steve Perry Director of Inland Fisheries), and ask him about the health of the fishery. Don't forget to ask for the reports that show an ongoing increase in average size of smallmouth in Winni.

I must say that anglers don't deserve comments like those presented by NH Resident. Your attempt to profile Bass anglers as similar to drug & alcohol addicts is arrogant at best. Perhaps you could compare the Bass anglers to the trout & salmon derby which can often be viewed as carnage ( just visit the shores and docks during the derby and see how many fish are laying dead on the bottom ( Bass are often included)) or the winter ice fishing derby where the fish are nailed to a board.

While we are on the subject of Bass - are either of you aware that it was the large organized Bass fishing organizations in NH ( NEBA of NH & NH Bass Federation) that worked with NHF&G to stop any ice derby from targeting bass through the ice. You can still catch and keep Bass through the ice but not in a derby.

While your requesting information from NHF&G perhaps you might be interested in the percentage of fish that are returned to the water, the percentage of fish that died in a tournament, the efforts that organizations go through to release the fish in a safe environment, etc..

Please don't come back with that Delayed Mortality issue = you don't have any facts on the issue other than something you interpret from those that agree with you ( and that's a short list). Our organized groups have been and will always continue to work with the NHF&G department & U. S. Fish & Wildlife to improve the fishery and gain information that can assist everyone in supporting the health of the ecosystem.

While we are on the subject of those dreadful Bass anglers; they spend substantially more money in your communities than any other group, they donate more money to youth and college funds than any other organized group, they spend more time educating youth and adults about the environment and fishing ethics than any others. They don't practice catch & keep, catch & kill - they do practice catch & release.

On the subject of the arrogance of NH Resident: Perhaps you may think that your pedigree is better than those that fish for Bass. You may not want to go there. It might come as a surprise to you how many of the Bass anglers are Doctors, Engineers, Scientists, Biologists, Lawyers, Professionals, and did I mention a wonderful mix from every cross section in America. Before you stereotype these fine people, go look in a mirror and tell us all what you have done for the community, the fishery, the youth of America - I would guess that your going to come up short.

If either of you are truly interested in the health of the environment, when do you plan on attending meetings at NHF&G to express your concerns out in the open ( keyboard bravery is nonsense). I personally attend dozens of meeting annually ( NHF&G, U.S. Fish & Wildlife, NH Dept. of Safety - Marine Patrol, State Senate & House Hearings, NH Wildlife Federation, etc.. ( if either of you have attended any meetings - forgive me for not recognizing your keyboard)

If your interested just show up, listen to the information flow, get involved.

My hope is that this response has gotten your attention and that you will step up to the plate.

Yes you got my attention.

OK, I am ready - go ahead and prove me wrong ( please include a brief history on what you are doing for the environment( resume if you will).

John/NH

I got lost in the archives looking around for the elephants at Funspot. Found a thread about eels. Funny post. Lots of people very afraid of them. Never did see any elephants.

Thank you very much for the eloquent reply. This simply reinforces my (and a LONG list) of others that feel the same. I'll pray for you.

Well said J/NH. Certainly, that NH guy has not been around any tournaments and observed that there is not drinking allowed and anyone caught would be punished.

I got lost in the archives looking around for the elephants at Funspot. Found a thread about eels. Funny post. Lots of people very afraid of them. Never did see any elephants.

Ms. Girl,

I believe that very old messages are gone from the archives due to some kind of computer/data problem.
Over the last few years there have been some few references to the elephants. I list some of them below.

Years ago (maybe 16 years ago) the lot adjacent to Funspot (the Meredith side) was rented out to an elephant ride. As I recall there were three elephants but usually only one or 2 were working at a time while the other(s) rested. You didn't get to "drive" but you got to sit on the saddle box thing on the back of the elephant.

I also think they were there for more than one season.

Start of thread asking about Funspot Elephant Ride
http://www.winnipesaukeeforum.com/index.cgi?noframes;read=76807

FLL mentions elephants – Funspot
http://www.winnipesaukeeforum.com/archive1.cgi?noframes;read=15858

sidebar mention of elephants at end of message
http://www.winnipesaukeeforum.com/archive1.cgi?noframes;read=66117

I know I took my oldest kid for a ride so I must have pictures "somewhere". If I ever find them I'll post them (and hope others would do likewise).

Now the elephants are but a memory - like the Duck Tours and the horse stables near Funspot and so many others......

Packy Derm

Hi Packy Derm,
That would be wonderful to see the old elephant photo's on the phototpost!
I did not know that there were duck tours on the lake once. Ahead of their time perhaps?
A data problem would explain why I have come up empty in the archives. Lots of fun looking around, though I do lose track of time.
We'll be looking for those photos!
RG

I guess I put the duck tour in the wrong category. It's much more recent history than the horse stable, and other old old memories (Lakes Region Playhouse, bowling at the Weirs).

The Duck Boat Tours were this century. I know there were great pictures of the boat in the forum. Checked the archives and found many messages but the pix weren't there. Maybe someone will post some of those to photopost. I hear it's painless.

Below is a link to ONE of the several threads on the Duck Boat (but don't expect the picture to show). There was a big "to do" about the placement of bow numbers on that vessel. I never forget!

Packy Derm




One Duck Tour Thread

http://www.nhboat.com/news/duckboat.htm

Thanks Big Ed-

I find it hard to believe that my serious question turned into a white elephant. I was hoping for a reply from the F&G guy. I'll have to check the records actually written on one of our doors at camp. Never really noticed the species, but now I'm curious. The camp and the door go back to 1892, not sure how early they started the graffiti. Have to check it in the spring...

Here is what the Winnipesaukee Historical Society has about the Weirs. Shad, not salmon.

The native Abenaquis, members of the Penacook tribe, called their village Aquedoctan, meaning "place of good fishing". For fishing, they built a special type of basket, called a WEIR, to capture the abundant fish (shad) that migrated through the Weirs Channel on their way from Lake Winnipesaukee to the Merrimac river to the sea. Several WEIRS went into the channel to block the shad from passing through, effectively trapping them.




http://www.lwhs.us/wei-weirsbeach.htm

http://indian-river.fl.us/fishing/fish/herramsh.html

Thanks for the links. Brought back memories of stories my dad (born in 1909)and granddad (1884) told of how they got to the camp from Boston area. Train to Ctr Harbor, Stage to Moultonboro, walk to the farm across from the Woodshed to grab the oars, walk to Lee's Mills, row to the island. They had to go to Moultonboro daily for ice. My how things have changed....

Dave C.

[Jeff Furber]

Thanks to the Fish and Game guys for that great reply. I love to fish Winnie and hate to compete with the bass tourneys, but each to there own.
I have noticed in many different states the type of release after the weight in's are done, one state puts the fish in a pontoon type boat with a tank and takes the fish out into the lake to be released.
Doing this instead of releasing in a cove, say Silver Sands for instance. Would this help the fish caught stay healthier? Would it return the fish to a more natural settings? Just a few thoughts on how fish caught in tourneys can be released, I realize that you cannot possibly go to every point or dock or area to do this.
I would like to hear from the F&G and tourney fisherman.
Is there some natural way rock bass can be reduced in lakes where there population has greatly increased to the detriment of bass and other fish?