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Old 08-08-2009, 08:36 PM   #1
Diver1111
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Default Side-scan-sonar images of Echo Junior

Hi All,

Kicking around in Alton Bay recently. Decided to try and bag the Echo Junior on SSS (I practice alot on many different targets in New England that I have not dived-then dive them for various reasons, as I did today). Chop was bad from passing boats, as were swells because it sits near a marker warning boats of a shoal so they tend to come close in to the marker when passing by.

But I caught it then dove it, landing about 12 feet away-viz about 5 feet at about 40 feet and no thermocline either-something else I did not expect given my experience diving Winni. I had planned on dropping down in my wetsuit (vs. my drysuit) and hitting ice-cold water and taking the hit for a few minutes-didn't happen.

Wow-not much left-wood was mostly skeleton-like structure with a huge engine standing straight up in the water column about 4 feet off the bottom of the hull. Surprised I could even pick up the tattered wood frame. The engine I expected to see on SSS, but not the framing. This thing is long, too. Must have been a blast to drive.

According to a post I found on the Net about her a while ago:

# Loon Cove - The wreck of the Echo Junior lies in about 45 feet of water on the south side of the red buoy in Alton Bay. The 28-foot hull is still intact. It burnt to the waterline on its maiden voyage. The engine of the 1940s speedboat is a 12-cylinder Allison Aircraft engine.

Sorry the images are not clearer-this one was tough-as I said the hull was pretty much gone and what was left was Swiss-cheese. But the engine stands out nicely as a square with associated rectangular shadow from the sonar beam hitting it.

Image 1: Knowing I had a target to find in the area I decided this was it, and was right; You have to be creative in your interpretation of an image, coupled with experience-I knew there was something solid there; Image is nothing to write home about but was useful to me;

Image 2: Clearly a boat (at least to me), with what I correctly assumed was the engine standing up in the water column; I am still impressed I got a hull outline at all-this hull was toast; Note the shadow of the engine amid-ships;

Image 3: Quickie scan leaving the area-again you can see the engine standing in the water column but the rest of the image is pretty much useless, unless you were looking for something in this area; If that was the case and this was the first image I caught it would have been a major focus-point;

Image 4: Used the zoom-box to blow it up-suffers from pixelation though still useful to me; Image is warped (curved) because I was turning the boat a bit when I caught it-turning boats equal less-than-straight-line images of an otherwise straight object.

More to come as I get to them.
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Old 08-08-2009, 10:19 PM   #2
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Thanks so much for this very interesting media.I love this stuff!Would love to see photos of the dive itself.
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Old 08-09-2009, 06:54 AM   #3
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Default Like an ultrasound

So is it a boy or a girl?
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Old 08-09-2009, 07:02 AM   #4
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Default Neat Stuff

I tried diving on this wreck a couple of years ago and couldn't find it. Would love to try it again. Grant and I are going to try diving on the wreck at 85 feet off of Ship island later today if it stays calm and sunny.
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Old 08-09-2009, 06:33 PM   #5
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Default Echo Junior location

Line up your boat between the (red?) marker at the southern end of the two markers indicating a shoal or rocks. Echo lies about 70 feet straight back from the red marker towards the island. I understand "straight back" can mean a number of angles, but the distance is pretty accurate.

If you have GPS set it to find, then anchor directly on:

43 29.912 / 071 15.274

Descend the anchor line to the target and it will be there. Depending on satellite geometry overhead you will either land right on it or be within maybe 15 feet.

Those are the coordinates of the cursor in one of the images I posted-and the cursor is centered on the wreck as you can see.

Hope it helps. If you like history this is worth a quick look-and that is one huge engine.
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Old 08-09-2009, 07:16 PM   #6
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Hauns, I just wanted to take a minute to publicly THANK YOU for spending you time and money and effort, locating my rod&reel that I lost over board. You are quite a interesting individual and if you ever need a favor in the Lakes Region, all you have to do is ask. I hope you received the dinner certificate for the Wolfeboro Inn, and hope the meal and cocktail(s) were delicious.
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Old 08-10-2009, 08:21 PM   #7
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It was my pleasure to help-and yes-got the Wolfboro Inn gift certificate-Thanks!

It will be a nice evening out when I cash that in.

At Your Service.
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Old 08-10-2009, 08:31 PM   #8
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Default What's it like?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senter Cove Guy View Post
I tried diving on this wreck a couple of years ago and couldn't find it. Would love to try it again. Grant and I are going to try diving on the wreck at 85 feet off of Ship island later today if it stays calm and sunny.
I have always wondered what it is like at depths of 70, 80 or even 100 feet down in Winni? It fascinates me because I don't think I am brave enough to do it.

I have this vision of crazy huge fish, dark and scary ha ha ha. Anyway can you even see anything down that far? How long does it take to get down 85 feet anyway? It's like one of those things that I have so much awe and respect for as it is way way out of my comfort zone. I prefer to be on TOP of the water.
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Old 08-10-2009, 10:13 PM   #9
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Default It's Like This...

Grant and I did find the wreck at 85 feet deep off of Ship Island yesterday. It's a stripped down fiberglass 18- 20 ft runabout. I was just reviewing my dive log for the dive and we didn't reach 85 feet for 14 minutes, but, that's because we were following a trail of clorox bottles suspended just off the bottom at various depths that mark the way to the wreck.

The visibility was pretty good...around 20 feet I'd say. It was a partly sunny day and we really didn't have to turn our lights on until about 50-55 feet. We were diving down a rock ledge until about 70 feet and then it turned to muck. The wreck was sitting right side up in the middle of the muck. Water temp at the bottom was 52 degrees F. We spent about 6 minutes swimming around the wreck just checking it out...then we followed the rock ledge back up to the boat. Total dive time was about 40 minutes including 3 minute safety stop. One of the 5 best dives I've done in Winni. No fish were seen. It was dark at 85 feet but you could see a little without lights...just not very far.

We had looked for it last year and had missed it to the west so we revised our dive plan for this year and it worked out perfectly.

When wreck diving in the ocean, say to 125 feet, we usually make a bee line down to the bottom in about 3 minutes so that we have as much air as possible at depth. Coming up is a different story...slow and steady. Visibility at 125 feet in the ocean off of North Carolina can be 50 - 100 feet depending upon lots of variables. No lights necessary unless it's a night dive or you are going to penetrate a wreck.

If this post piques your interest, Dive Winnipesaukee would love to have you as a dive student.
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Old 08-11-2009, 04:57 PM   #10
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Post Echo Jr info

Echo Jr

26’ speedboat of wood made by Mr. Fisher of Echo Point in 1946. It is a custom racing boat. Two Echo’s were made. This is the second. It has an Allison 12 cylinder aircraft engine. It sank on the trial run. It caught fire off the point of Loon Cove. In danger of catching the forest on fire, other boats created wave action to prevent the boat from being pushed on shore by the wind. It eventually sank in the channel after burning to the water line.

Brad, I'm glad to hear you and Grant got to the 85' Ship Island wreck on a nice day.
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Old 08-11-2009, 07:46 PM   #11
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Default Visibility?

Just curious Senter Cove Guy - why is the visibility better in the ocean than in Winnipesaukee? I would have guessed the opposite. I have only been diving on a resort course in the Caribbean and of course the visibility was great there but I was assuming a reasonably clear lake like Winni would have offered better visibility than the ocean around NC. Is it something to do with more bottom sediment in Winni that gets churned up?
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Old 08-12-2009, 08:53 AM   #12
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Default Visibility

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Just curious Senter Cove Guy - why is the visibility better in the ocean than in Winnipesaukee? I would have guessed the opposite. I have only been diving on a resort course in the Caribbean and of course the visibility was great there but I was assuming a reasonably clear lake like Winni would have offered better visibility than the ocean around NC. Is it something to do with more bottom sediment in Winni that gets churned up?
The particulates in the lake water limit the visibility. This is due to sediment runoff and the general muckiness of much of the bottom. And, of course, the warmer water brings algae formation. The ocean bottoms where I've dived are mostly sand and, the deeper, the cleaner, generally speaking. There's probably even more variables than that but I think that's the major ones.
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Old 08-12-2009, 04:39 PM   #13
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Default Water Clarity

Long Pine - Senter Cove Guy has alot of it. To understand more, think of the ocean here (Northeast) versus the Caribbean that you have experienced. Closer to the equator the surface water has less nutrients in it because of the sun. North Atlantic is full of nutreints. For example: Humpback Whales migrate south to mate and give birth. During that time, they are starving due to lack of food. They come north to feed on the nutrient rich waters (temperate zone).

In the Winni, a similiar thing occurs only in reverse. You will find that visiblity on the surface is clearer during winter and spring. As the water warms, the nutrients in the water "cloud" it. In addition you have more turbidity due to rain, boats, and human water activities kicking up material in the water column. If the water temp gets too warm, the algae blooms.

This is probably more than you asked.
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Old 08-16-2009, 03:49 PM   #14
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Not much algae bloom in the Lake this August -- thanks in large part to the lower temps and heavy precip.

Senter Cove Guy and I did another dive a few days after the 85' Ship Island wreck, and revisited the Weirs pile driver barge. In contrast to the good viz at Ship, the viz at Weirs that day was downright awful. But, as a diver in the Northeast, you must endure some pretty crappy viz fairly often. That being said, it was another good dive.

Finding the wreck @ Ship was fun -- and that ranked up there with one of my favorite Winni dives ever. There's just something about good conditions, nice temps, a solid plan, and finding a previously elusive item that makes for a great dive. Oh yeah -- and surfacing right at the boat afterward doesn't stink, either!

Looking forward to some more good dives later this month and in September.
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Old 08-16-2009, 04:01 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hazelnut View Post
I have always wondered what it is like at depths of 70, 80 or even 100 feet down in Winni? It fascinates me because I don't think I am brave enough to do it.

I have this vision of crazy huge fish, dark and scary ha ha ha. Anyway can you even see anything down that far? How long does it take to get down 85 feet anyway? It's like one of those things that I have so much awe and respect for as it is way way out of my comfort zone. I prefer to be on TOP of the water.
You can get down to 80-90-100-110 or more as fast as you sink depending on your weighting. In one of our local spots here at home, we routinely drop to 90 feet within a minute or two. It's coming up that you want to do sloooooooooooooooowly.

In Winnipesaukee, it's typically "lights out" (or, rather, "lights on") when you get to 70-80 feet, and then pretty much a black out below that level. But it depends where you are. We had a fairly dark dive dive to 50-55 feet on Thursday.
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Old 08-10-2010, 09:27 PM   #16
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Default Nice Dive Today

Dove this wreck today. As it turned out, we anchored just south of it and had about a 1-2 minute swim to find it. It's at 38 feet and the water was 73 degrees. As Diver1111 said, the hull is nearly gone but the engine is huge. The bottom is very silty and kicks up easily if you don't watch your buoyancy. After viewing the wreck, we went on a bottle hunt. Found a few but nothing really fancy. The sun was high and bright making the visibility 15 - 20 feet. Today was a really nice day for diving.

I dove this wreck with 2 other divers about 3-4 years ago and I was the last diver in the water. The other 2 divers said they found the wreck but I never saw it. I was probably close but, the silt was so stirred up, I never saw it.
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Old 08-10-2010, 10:17 PM   #17
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Default Turbidity

I use to dive a lot on the 70's. Lake turbidity was a lot less back then. I enjoyed diving and learn to carry a knife as there are many fishing lines that you can get tangled in. My favorite dive beside the steamer Mt Washington was railroad cars full of paper. It was told here the cars are pretty much rotted away and the paper rolls and steel undercarriges are left.

I dived the Navy site off Diamond Island shortly after they left. I remember what look like a miniature railroad track leading from the big boathouse down the ledge to the bottom. There was 'sensors' linked by wires on both side of the railroad bed.

The scariest dive was off the Isle of Shoals off Portsmouth. The water was shockingly cold even with a wet suit. It got dark quickly and became very spooky. Didn't see much but rocks.

The most beautiful dive was off the coast of Cozumel in the 80's. I have never seen water so clean and warm. You had to pay attention to the depth as it is just as clear 100 feet down as 20 feet.
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Old 11-21-2010, 10:28 PM   #18
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Default Railroad Cars and Paper Rolls

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Originally Posted by BroadHopper View Post
I use to dive a lot on the 70's. Lake turbidity was a lot less back then. I enjoyed diving and learn to carry a knife as there are many fishing lines that you can get tangled in. My favorite dive beside the steamer Mt Washington was railroad cars full of paper. It was told here the cars are pretty much rotted away and the paper rolls and steel undercarriges are left.
Two questions for you:
Capt Pat and I found one of the railcars in 38 feet of water this summer. However, I'd heard that the paper rolls were in much deeper water. Where, how deep and how did you find the rail cars and paper rolls?

You said "My favorite dive beside the steamer Mt Washington was...". You dove the steamer Mt. Washington? Please elaborate. Thanks.
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Old 11-22-2010, 05:50 PM   #19
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Default Steamer Mt Washington and rail cars.

I am refering to the steamer off of Glendale. The one that was used to house workers working on Kimball's Castle. i was told it was the original Mt Washington. The wreck is in about 25 feet of water.

As for the railcars, memory keeps sending me to Paugus Bay, south of Pickerel Cove. Yet they say it is North of Akwa Soliel marina in Meredith Bay. I remember diving both places and remembering rail cars yet I can't recall where it is.
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Old 11-22-2010, 07:11 PM   #20
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Default Thanks For The Explanation

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroadHopper View Post
I am refering to the steamer off of Glendale. The one that was used to house workers working on Kimball's Castle. I was told it was the original Mt Washington. The wreck is in about 25 feet of water.
The wreck you refer to is The Lady of the Lake. It is 125 feet long and sits upright in 30 feet of water. It was, in fact, used to house workers working on Kimball's Castle.
It is believed that the dynamited remains of the original Mt. Washington were loaded on barges and dumped in deep water near Eagle Island.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroadHopper View Post
As for the railcars, memory keeps sending me to Paugus Bay, south of Pickerel Cove. Yet they say it is North of Akwa Soliel marina in Meredith Bay. I remember diving both places and remembering rail cars yet I can't recall where it is.
The single railcar that Capt Pat and I found in 38 feet of water is just south of Maiden Lady Cove in Meredith Bay. We searched the area down to about 50 feet but only saw the one railcar. We would like to find the other railcars and paper rolls someday.
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Old 11-27-2010, 02:30 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Senter Cove Guy View Post

The single railcar that Capt Pat and I found in 38 feet of water is just south of Maiden Lady Cove in Meredith Bay. We searched the area down to about 50 feet but only saw the one railcar. We would like to find the other railcars and paper rolls someday.
Didn't find the train car but in that vicinity we found what appears to be an intact paddle wheel upright inthe mud in about 45-55 feet of water. Figures I had left the camera in the boat....
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Old 09-03-2013, 10:50 PM   #22
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Default Looking For More Information

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroadHopper View Post
I use to dive a lot on the 70's. Lake turbidity was a lot less back then. I enjoyed diving and learn to carry a knife as there are many fishing lines that you can get tangled in. My favorite dive beside the steamer Mt Washington was railroad cars full of paper. It was told here the cars are pretty much rotted away and the paper rolls and steel undercarriges are left.
Can you provide GPS numbers or any other location directions for where the paper rolls can be found?
Thanks.
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