Standby generator

Swanpoint guy · 09-04-2011, 05:41 PM

After our recent tropical storm I have become more concerned about power outage. A week of no power in CT wakes you up. I'm interested in the solutions other forum members may have come up with? Both full time residents and those with second homes. Also, I bet there is interest in the stories some of you have about prior prolonged power outages.

ITD · 09-04-2011, 06:08 PM

I called someone, who shall remain nameless, mainly because it was many years ago and I don't remember the name, to install an automatic standby generator in Moultonboro. I drove up for the appointment and the guy never showed up, never called and I decided I didn't want to do business with someone like that. I have a portable 4000 watt generator that I will wire into the boiler should I ever need to do that.

RLW · 09-04-2011, 06:54 PM

Some are doing this when the power goes off and I'm saying as I have a 14KW whole house generator and just love it. In fact I'm on it right now as the power went off just about an hour ago up here on Alton Mountain, more precise Sunset Lake. Just a couple power outages makes one a believer in them and relieves a lot of stress when one has all amenities, like hot showers, running water and a septic tank pump and oh ya the dishwasher.

NHskier · 09-04-2011, 06:55 PM

I purchase a 5k portable Honda unit a few years ago. When I brought it home I got major-league eye rolls from my wife and daughters. (As in, why do we need one of those?)

We've now used it for several extended storm outages and it's been VERY useful! It's got enough power to cover our boiler (heat and hot water), sump pump, refridgerator, lights, tv etc. With a bit of load balancing we can use the microwave oven. So all in all it made things pretty comfortable. And I get big points for being smart enough to have bought it.

We had a transfer switch installed so I basically just need to plug the generator in to the connection box located in our garage and fire it up.

This particular model has an inverter and puts out "clean" power so we can use computers or other sensitive electronics without risk of damage from surges or dropouts. Also has what Honda calls an Eco-throttle in that power output (rpms) is based on load demand. So if you're not putting much load on it it runs at lower rpm, using less fuel.

Swanpoint guy · 09-05-2011, 07:07 AM

ITD and NHSkier,
It sounds like your system is working great for you. I have a couple questions about your set up with a portable generator. Do you feed your electrical panel or sub panel with a transfer switch or just plug specific things into the generator? How do you run your well pump? What would you do about a prolonged winter outage if you can't get to your home to set it up and re-fuel?

That Honda generator is a great one. We used a 2K watt Honda with a 6 day outage during Irene, but no well water

Swanpoint guy · 09-05-2011, 07:14 AM

RLW
Your set up is top of the line and one I'm considering. Did you buy the generator and then hire subs for the instalation? Are you runnig gas, diesel, or LPG? Can you recommend your brand of generator? Who did the istallation and could you recommend them?

For other forum members, I'm sure there are many that use generators on a regular basis. What have you learned?

Kamper · 09-05-2011, 07:21 AM

I have a 3500w gen-set running off gasoline. I bought it during the '08 blackout after the ice-storm. Now I am pre-rigged to pull the furnace off the house circuit and plug it into the genny. For noise and CO management I have since attached a flange-and-cup thingie over the muffler out-put and added a length of exhaust tube.

The cheaper units put out 'dirty' electricty which might not be suitable for delicate electronics. You can get around that by powerring through battery back-ups which can cost almost as much as a gen-set. On a thread of the same topic it was suggested that you inquire at the electronics store which backup is compatible with your electronics.

I have heard nice things about the Honda product line (not what I have). They are quieter and more fuel efficient than what I use.

Natural gas &/or propane units are more convenient to fuel up and you don't have to worry about stale fuel issues. Portable propane units may be available at RV stores. Propane tanks can be stored for decades if protected from the elements.

Are you as thrifty as I am? lol. I got a couple old propane tanks at the dump and took them in for the 'swap.' It saved me $20 per tank at the self-service rack. Buying an empty tank brand new can run as much as $45 then you still have to fill it or swap it anyway. I use them for cooking purposes but this tip is good for anyone who wants to stock-pile propane. My town collects a fee to dispose of them and pays a charge to get rid of them so it's win-win for everyone except the recovery company.

EllyPoinster · 09-05-2011, 07:24 AM

After watching my basement begin to fill up with water again in a power loss, I finally bought a portable 5.5KW Troy-bilt generator and a six circuit transfer switch at Lowes. Total cost about $1,000 plus an hour or so to install the switch - directions were excellent. The switch also came with an instructional DVD but, of course, you need power to watch it.

I am able to run the sump pump, furnace, refrigerator, well pump and the kitchen lights and outlets. The outlets allow us to run a toaster oven or a small microwave oven that previously was used in dorm rooms when our kids were in college. I can also run extension cords to adjoining rooms to power the TV and DVD player as well as lights in the bedroom.

After 2 days into that power loss, my wife said it was the best $1,000 I ever spent.

Dave R · 09-05-2011, 07:30 AM

I run a portable 5000 watt that I bought used for $275 after the big ice storm 3 or 4 years ago and a safety interlock on my original breaker panel. This is the least expensive way to make all the circuits in a house live. Off-the-grid living at my place is only slightly less convenient than on-the-grid. I made the interlock myself, but they are available commercially here: http://www.interlockkit.com/.

I converted the used 5000 watt machine to electric start so my family can use it in my absence. I also created detailed instruction manuals for them, but it's really quite simple to operate and switch over.

Prior to owning the 5000 watt generator, I used a 4000 watt for 15 years and that was not quite powerful enough to run the well, furnace and fridge at the same time. The 5000 watt does so without any issues. Can't run an electric dryer on the 5000 watt, so we hang laundry when without power. The washer runs fine.

Rusty · 09-05-2011, 07:34 AM

Here is another thread that talked about Generators:

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...ight=generator

robmac · 09-05-2011, 07:55 AM

I had to have a new service installed in my house house and had the company install a switch for the generator for power outages. I simply throw the switch plug the cord in and fire up the generator. The only thing I would and will change when this generator dies is go diesel.

ITD · 09-05-2011, 08:54 AM

In my Mass. house I just installed a 6 circuit transfer switch that I had bought 2 years ago. It was this model switch http://www.reliancecontrols.com/Prod...il.aspx?20216A

with the outdoor receptacle. I installed it myself and it was pretty easy, taking me about two hours to install (switch and outdoor plug). The only thing I would do over again is install a larger switch, they have a 10 circuit switch so I could have more options to simple switch things on an off. It is important not to draw more current than the generator can supply, this switch has watt meters on it.

The only other problem I had was my generator was a coleman 4000 watt model, the 240v plug only had 3 prongs, 2 hot and 1 ground. The switch has a 4 wire plug. I rewired the generator with a 4 wire plug, and made it a floating neutral, which allows the generator to be grounded thru the house ground and is safer in when connected like this.

I also had to adjust my generator as it was putting out 136 volts, the adjustment turned out to be simple as I slowed down the engine so that it produced 120 volts.

The switch is the best option for me as my wife can easily connect the generator.

For now, if I need power at the lake I run a couple extension cords and hook up what I need. We haven't had an extended outage in my area in Moultonboro in many years.

tis · 09-05-2011, 09:22 AM

I don't know what size ours is, but it switches on automatically and does the heat, refrigerator, water pump, sump pumps, septic, pump, lights, microwave, tv. I don't know if I forgot anything. Anyway, I would not want to be without it. We have three tanks of bottled gas and the only thing we don't know is how long it would run before the gas runs out. Three days? Five days? We just don't know. Fortunately we have never had to test it.

I just found out it is a 10 kw

ishoot308 · 09-05-2011, 10:50 AM

I have a 6500 watt Honda portable generator that I use at the camp. It pretty much runs the entire camp less the electric stove and washer / dryer. While this generator is ridiculously expensive it is ultra quiet and the safety features really paid off during Irene. I had no problem leaving the camp during the day and let the generator run. It has an overload protection switch which kicked in thanks to an iron that was supposed to have an automatic off switch which was defective. The overload protection switch not only saved the generator but many appliances and electronics in the camp as well. It also sipped fuel at a rate of 4 gallons over a 12 hour period while under load using the "eco-throttle" setting. Can't say enough good about this generator!

At our main home we use an 18,000 watt Generac portable gas generator that runs everything including the stove and washer / dryer. It is a brute of a generator and loud (I have no neighbors!) but runs well. It does however suck down fuel like crazy at about a gallon an hour at full load.

Wouldn't be without a generator at either home. They are invaluable!

Dan

RLW · 09-05-2011, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swanpoint guy

RLW
Your set up is top of the line and one I'm considering. Did you buy the generator and then hire subs for the instalation? Are you runnig gas, diesel, or LPG? Can you recommend your brand of generator? Who did the istallation and could you recommend them?

For other forum members, I'm sure there are many that use generators on a regular basis. What have you learned?

Swanpoint guy, I purchased my Generac system through my sons company's electrician who was only able to save me about $100 over buying on line with no shipping fees. I should not say only as ever bit does help. He came up from MA and installed the wiring at MA prices (little higher than NH) and I did all the excavating as I have it installed about 40' from the house. The cost for all the conduit wasn't that much from Lowe's. The total cost for EVERYTHING including the more expensive transfer switch was under $6K. The main reason for my wanting it is because I'm in the older age bracket and I really didn't like the idea of myself or wife if I wasn't around going out in the winter months and pull starting and connecting up cables. One can be in bed asleep and the power goes off and this just takes over without you even knowing about it and you just keep on trucking without being inconvenienced. It is a decision that this ole geezer will not have regrets that he decided to go the bit more expensive way to take care of my home and my life style.
For more specific info checkout their web site and look under Model # 005880 for the generator and Model #RTSD100A3 for the transfer switch.
If more info needed feel free to PM me and I will try and answer what I can.

SAMIAM · 09-05-2011, 04:01 PM

I have the same set up as NHskier with one exception.I had mine hooked to our household propane tank (1,000gal) so I don't have to worry about refueling durring prolonged use.

NHskier · 09-05-2011, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swanpoint guy

ITD and NHSkier,
It sounds like your system is working great for you. I have a couple questions about your set up with a portable generator. Do you feed your electrical panel or sub panel with a transfer switch or just plug specific things into the generator? How do you run your well pump? What would you do about a prolonged winter outage if you can't get to your home to set it up and re-fuel?

That Honda generator is a great one. We used a 2K watt Honda with a 6 day outage during Irene, but no well water

I had an electrician hook up the transfer switch so it feeds my main panel. That way I just have the one large cable from the generator to a receptacle which is wired back to the transfer switch. So I "control" everything using my breaker panel, with no need to run extension cords all over.

One thing I do use an extension cord for is to run a line to my hot tub. While that's not able to be covered by the generator, I put a trouble light with a low-wattage bulb into the equipment/pump bay to prevent freezing there. The tub itself is so well insulated that even in very cold weather it only loses a couple degrees/day, while the light puts out enough heat to keep the bay warm.

We are on town water so don't have a well pump to deal with. But as long as you size the generator to your power needs you could cover that also. (That's the main thing - get a sense of what you need to provide power to and buy the corresponding sized unit. Dealers should be able to help you rough that out.)

Admittedly, this may not be the best setup for a vacation home where you're concerned about freezing pipes etc. The portable generator route does require that you're there to get it up and running.

SIKSUKR · 09-06-2011, 07:54 AM

I don't understand why one would install an x#circuit switch. Just power the whole panel and use anything you want. No need to shut off breakers. Of course your limited by the output of your generator but so what. Its clear to see when you turn on that stove you put too much load on it. 2 things happen..Your lights dim really low and the gen really struggles and almost stalls or it does stall. Simply don't put that much load on it and restart. Most 5000 watts, like the 2 I own, will power all your necessary needs like fridge, water pump, oil burner, tv's, plus many lights. I used my micro last week also. No drying laundry and cooking in the oven but I got a gas grill if I really need heat for cooking. Actually a few years ago I used a "set it and forget it" rotisserie for 3 hours. Never be without one again.

Belmont Resident · 09-06-2011, 08:34 AM

If you have the panel powered without a transfer switch you could put power outside of your house and electrocute someone working on the lines.
A transfer switch is required and works two ways. One to limit power to those items that can be supplied safely and two as an automatic shutoff switch. It prevents back feeding the power outside of your house.

Also I’ve heard that generators at Lowes and HD (Generac)will not be the same as those sold elsewhere. They are in fact seconds that have been repaired or did not meet standards at the factory and thus are purchased as such and sold as first quality at HD & Lowes.

codeman671 · 09-06-2011, 09:36 AM

I have fed my entire panel through a hot tub hookup outside the house once when in need, but shut off the main before doing so. A 5000 watt generator had us up and running quite nicely. It is not to code, nor probably legal to do so but it got us through in a pinch and I was careful enough not to backfeed the lines.

Since then we switched to a 12kw GE whole house system with a dedicated 320 gallon LPG tank. The setup worked great during the 4 days we were without last week. I did stall it out 3 times while running 3 zones of AC plus the oven and 3 refrigerators (and everything else in the house) but a simple reset and power down of a few items and we were good.

I still keep the 5000 watt in the shed. I also uses a 2000 watt generac portable (suitcase style) at the island to run the 2 refrigerators when the power was down last week.

Kamper · 09-06-2011, 10:22 AM

When using a "suicide plug" you are assuming that your wiring and breaker system are working normally and properly installed. A reasonable and exceedingly likely expectation.

As I understand it... The supposed risk is that there could be a system flaw. The normal household breakers are only hooked up to the black (hot) lines. If a circuit is mis-wired you may back-feed power through the return line. This was much more likely in the days before grounded systems and cheap reliable testing equipment. Not to mention licensure for professional electricians.

ishoot308 · 09-06-2011, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belmont Resident

If you have the panel powered without a transfer switch you could put power outside of your house and electrocute someone working on the lines.
A transfer switch is required and works two ways. One to limit power to those items that can be supplied safely and two as an automatic shutoff switch. It prevents back feeding the power outside of your house.

Also I’ve heard that generators at Lowes and HD (Generac)will not be the same as those sold elsewhere. They are in fact seconds that have been repaired or did not meet standards at the factory and thus are purchased as such and sold as first quality at HD & Lowes.

I think Siksukr is talking about a panel that has a built in transfer switch. He is quite correct that this is the best way to go as it gives you the option of turning on whatever circuit you want in your house and not being limited by a separate transfer switch with a limited number of circuits. It was actually cheaper at my home to change out the entire panel with a built in transfer switch than it was to add a new and separate transfer switch.

RLW · 09-06-2011, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belmont Resident

Also I’ve heard that generators at Lowes and HD (Generac)will not be the same as those sold elsewhere. They are in fact seconds that have been repaired or did not meet standards at the factory and thus are purchased as such and sold as first quality at HD & Lowes.

What you say about the quality of the unit not being up to par could be very true, however I read the warranty information from the one I purchased from the factory warehouse and one from Home Depot and they read the same word for word. If that is the case how can one really go wrong. You may say , well it will work for the warranty period, but then it will fall apart. I don't really think that would be the case. I believe the units would have to meet all standards and if they are rebuilt or reconditioned units they HAVE TO SPECIFY THAT.

brk-lnt · 09-06-2011, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belmont Resident

Also I’ve heard that generators at Lowes and HD (Generac)will not be the same as those sold elsewhere. They are in fact seconds that have been repaired or did not meet standards at the factory and thus are purchased as such and sold as first quality at HD & Lowes.

Yeah, and you probably heard this from an independent reseller?

Lowes and HD are not going to put their national reputation and insurance at risk by selling factory-second generators, especially when we are talking about devices that could be lethal if truly unreliable.

Generac is, in general, a lower-end brand. It's fine enough for the typical homeowner who might use the machine 2 dozen times in a 10 year span, but they are *typically* not rated for continuous duty and/or very demanding applications.

It's been a while since I purchased a whole-house generator (12 years), but the tagline for Generac used to be "fill the oil, check the gas".

My personal recommendation would be for a dry-gas (LP or natural gas) unit, as they will run much longer/cleaner than a petrol unit, and require less maintenance. Diesel would be my second choice, as they have more fuel options (eg: could run it on home heating fuel in a pinch if you add some oil to it), and the fuel stays more stable over long-term. I'd only go for a gasoline unit as a last-resort.

A whole-house transfer switch is the best way to go, especially one that can handle auto-starting the generator, but may be more than some people require. It's the only realistic option if you need unattended operation, but also a convenience you will pay for.

The little 8 or 10 circuit sub-panel switches are great for the once a year use with portable genny's, and they prevent inadvertent overloads from trying to run the stove off of the unit for example.

Swanpoint guy · 09-06-2011, 06:45 PM

A ton of great information on this thread. Now I have some work to do before winter.

Belkin · 09-06-2011, 09:01 PM

I agree with Siksukr. It is best to power your whole panel. We used an electrician to install an interlock. You can not turn on the breakers for the generator unless you turn off the main. This ensures that you do not back feed the power lines. When using it, we start off by turning off all of the breakers. Then we turn on the ones we need (heat, water, fridge, etc.) taking care not to exceed the limit of the generator. This gives you complete flexibility since you can turn on any circuit you want. Some friends of ours have a six circuit transfer switch and they end up running extension cords all over the house to keep the lights on. With the whole panel interlock, you can turn on as many breakers as you want provided you watch the total power.

MarkinNH · 09-06-2011, 09:39 PM

The interlock may be a viable option but IMO it has flaws.
1- you have to be at the house in order to activate it.
2- how do you know when the street power has been restored.

Personally, I would spend the extra money and set the system up through a suitable Automatic Transfer Switch. Why !

1- you don't have to be at the house in order for it to work
2- when the ATS senses that street power has been restored it will shut the generator down and swap the load back to the street power.
3- I certainly don't want to have to climb out of bed at 1:00 AM on some cold winter night in the middle of a northeaster, pull my generator out into the driveway, start it up, go throw a bunch of breakers off , go plug the generator in, and then go turn the breakers back on, go crawl back into bed, lay there for the next few hours and wonder if the street power has been restored yet so that I can go back out into the stormy weather to reverse the procedure and put it away.
Nope not me !! When I feel flush enough to spend the money on installing a standby generator for our house it will be a suitable unit, large enough to power ALL the necessities, required luxury's, with room to spare for future growth, LP fired and fully automatic. In the long run, the added expense( and it's not like your going to have to re mortgage the house) will be well worth the comfort, peace of mind, ease of use.
Do it Once, Do it Right. That's my 2 cents worth

Belmont Resident · 09-07-2011, 06:43 AM

Have you ever gone thru HD or Lowes for warranty or repair work?

The info on Generac came from a certified Generac dealer.
They will not work on units sold at HD or Lowes. You have to go thru HD or Lowes for service.
The info could be wrong but I'd hate to find out the hard way for a few dallars saved.
Someone I'm working for had issues with a dryer from Lowes.
I'm not sure how many times they showed up, I believe 3 or 4, to repair the unit before he finally got a brand new replacement. That would defeat the whole purpose during an extended power outage.

RLW · 09-07-2011, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belmont Resident

Have you ever gone thru HD or Lowes for warranty or repair work?

HD & Lowe's do not do the warranty work. they contract it out to company's that do the work for them. Just like lawn mowers or anything else that work is done on warranty. My best friend who owns a power equipment business and he has all the Lowe's stores in his area to do all there work on all manufactures gasoline run equipment. This guy is a real professional and reliable shop. Generac specifies who can do there warranty work and no others will be accepted nor will they get paid if it isn't a dealer that THEY specify.

SIKSUKR · 09-09-2011, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belmont Resident

If you have the panel powered without a transfer switch you could put power outside of your house and electrocute someone working on the lines.
A transfer switch is required and works two ways. One to limit power to those items that can be supplied safely and two as an automatic shutoff switch. It prevents back feeding the power outside of your house.

I'm quite aware of the whys and hows of a transfer switch. I have exactly what Belkin refers to. I can't energize my panel from the generator without turning off my main. My post was to point out that for my requirements there really is not a need to power only some circuits but to power the whole panel. I've been doing this for 15 years.

Swanpoint guy · 09-10-2011, 07:11 PM

I have to agree. The big advantage of powering the whole panel is the flexibility to select the idea circuits to power in either the summer or winter. It's hard to fit all that on a generator panel.

ITD · 09-10-2011, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swanpoint guy

I have to agree. The big advantage of powering the whole panel is the flexibility to select the idea circuits to power in either the summer or winter. It's hard to fit all that on a generator panel.

I agree also, my reason for using a transfer switch was that anyone can use it and it is relatively foolproof with the power meters.

Switching off all the breakers then turning on what I want would work for me, but might be problematic when I'm not around. Bottom line, do what works for you.

Swanpoint guy · 12-18-2011, 12:29 PM

2 things...

Based on this Thead I installed an Interlock device with a 7500kW portable generator on our home in CT. Got the work done just in time for our Outober buzzard that left 1million CT neighbors without power!! We were out for 7 days but the generator setup was great and life went on without a hiccup. By the end of the week we had a little refugee camp staying at our house but that was kinda fun.

Now we still need a solution here at the lake. Since we're not always here I think it should be an automatic standby setup. Has anyone heard of "Powers Generwtor Service" in Concord? Their website looks good

Again, thanks to all who gave advice on this Thread

MarkinNH · 12-18-2011, 12:53 PM

I have heard a few stories that would give me concern as to their ethics but I have No personal experience with them.
There is also Rowan Electric Generator based in Sandwich/Moultonborough
http://www.rowanelectricgenerators.com/

TNT Electrical Contractor · 02-06-2012, 12:53 PM

TNT Electrical Contractor sells and installs generators and transfer switches of all sizes. You may find availability is limited due to the past storms(October)
We have a few in stock.

RLW · 02-06-2012, 01:20 PM

TNT Electrical Contractor, I just noticed that you are fairly new to the forum and glad you have joined us. Have fun and enjoy the Winni Forum while making many new friends. Best of luck selling/installing your product of generators. I purchased an whole house unit 2 years ago and it is the best peace of mind expenditure that my wife and I have spent.

Kamper · 02-07-2012, 09:29 AM

This jogged my memory...

I lost net service and power during the 'Snowtober' storm. At the time I had a back up location to go to. Another employee later learned we had the same commerical type account with Comcast and it includes a service recovery guarantee of 24 hours as long as you have electricity. She said since I had a generator I should have called them and told them I had power and they would have prioritised the lines to my home-office.

I haven't had a chance to test this but if anyone does, or has, please tell me how it went.

09-04-2011, 05:41 PM	#1
Swanpoint guy Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: CT & Moultonboro NH Posts: 27 Thanks: 14 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Standby generator After our recent tropical storm I have become more concerned about power outage. A week of no power in CT wakes you up. I'm interested in the solutions other forum members may have come up with? Both full time residents and those with second homes. Also, I bet there is interest in the stories some of you have about prior prolonged power outages.

09-04-2011, 06:54 PM	#3
RLW Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Alton Bay on the mountain by a lake Posts: 2,023 Thanks: 563 Thanked 444 Times in 311 Posts	Some are doing this when the power goes off and I'm saying as I have a 14KW whole house generator and just love it. In fact I'm on it right now as the power went off just about an hour ago up here on Alton Mountain, more precise Sunset Lake. Just a couple power outages makes one a believer in them and relieves a lot of stress when one has all amenities, like hot showers, running water and a septic tank pump and oh ya the dishwasher. __________________ There is nothing better than living on Alton Mountain & our grand kids visits.

09-04-2011, 06:55 PM	#4
NHskier Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 284 Thanks: 40 Thanked 33 Times in 30 Posts	I purchase a 5k portable Honda unit a few years ago. When I brought it home I got major-league eye rolls from my wife and daughters. (As in, why do we need one of those?) We've now used it for several extended storm outages and it's been VERY useful! It's got enough power to cover our boiler (heat and hot water), sump pump, refridgerator, lights, tv etc. With a bit of load balancing we can use the microwave oven. So all in all it made things pretty comfortable. And I get big points for being smart enough to have bought it. We had a transfer switch installed so I basically just need to plug the generator in to the connection box located in our garage and fire it up. This particular model has an inverter and puts out "clean" power so we can use computers or other sensitive electronics without risk of damage from surges or dropouts. Also has what Honda calls an Eco-throttle in that power output (rpms) is based on load demand. So if you're not putting much load on it it runs at lower rpm, using less fuel. __________________ NHskier

09-05-2011, 07:07 AM	#5
Swanpoint guy Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: CT & Moultonboro NH Posts: 27 Thanks: 14 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Question ITD and NHSkier, It sounds like your system is working great for you. I have a couple questions about your set up with a portable generator. Do you feed your electrical panel or sub panel with a transfer switch or just plug specific things into the generator? How do you run your well pump? What would you do about a prolonged winter outage if you can't get to your home to set it up and re-fuel? That Honda generator is a great one. We used a 2K watt Honda with a 6 day outage during Irene, but no well water

09-05-2011, 07:14 AM	#6
Swanpoint guy Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: CT & Moultonboro NH Posts: 27 Thanks: 14 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Details please RLW Your set up is top of the line and one I'm considering. Did you buy the generator and then hire subs for the instalation? Are you runnig gas, diesel, or LPG? Can you recommend your brand of generator? Who did the istallation and could you recommend them? For other forum members, I'm sure there are many that use generators on a regular basis. What have you learned?

09-04-2011, 06:08 PM	#2
ITD Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Moultonboro, NH Posts: 2,860 Thanks: 461 Thanked 666 Times in 366 Posts	I called someone, who shall remain nameless, mainly because it was many years ago and I don't remember the name, to install an automatic standby generator in Moultonboro. I drove up for the appointment and the guy never showed up, never called and I decided I didn't want to do business with someone like that. I have a portable 4000 watt generator that I will wire into the boiler should I ever need to do that.

The Following User Says Thank You to RLW For This Useful Post:
Swanpoint guy (09-05-2011)

09-05-2011, 07:21 AM	#7
Kamper Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Thornton's Ferry Posts: 1,296 Thanks: 67 Thanked 166 Times in 126 Posts	I have a 3500w gen-set running off gasoline. I bought it during the '08 blackout after the ice-storm. Now I am pre-rigged to pull the furnace off the house circuit and plug it into the genny. For noise and CO management I have since attached a flange-and-cup thingie over the muffler out-put and added a length of exhaust tube. The cheaper units put out 'dirty' electricty which might not be suitable for delicate electronics. You can get around that by powerring through battery back-ups which can cost almost as much as a gen-set. On a thread of the same topic it was suggested that you inquire at the electronics store which backup is compatible with your electronics. I have heard nice things about the Honda product line (not what I have). They are quieter and more fuel efficient than what I use. Natural gas &/or propane units are more convenient to fuel up and you don't have to worry about stale fuel issues. Portable propane units may be available at RV stores. Propane tanks can be stored for decades if protected from the elements. Are you as thrifty as I am? lol. I got a couple old propane tanks at the dump and took them in for the 'swap.' It saved me $20 per tank at the self-service rack. Buying an empty tank brand new can run as much as $45 then you still have to fill it or swap it anyway. I use them for cooking purposes but this tip is good for anyone who wants to stock-pile propane. My town collects a fee to dispose of them and pays a charge to get rid of them so it's win-win for everyone except the recovery company.

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Swanpoint guy (09-05-2011)

09-05-2011, 07:24 AM	#8
EllyPoinster Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 160 Thanks: 13 Thanked 25 Times in 20 Posts	After watching my basement begin to fill up with water again in a power loss, I finally bought a portable 5.5KW Troy-bilt generator and a six circuit transfer switch at Lowes. Total cost about $1,000 plus an hour or so to install the switch - directions were excellent. The switch also came with an instructional DVD but, of course, you need power to watch it. I am able to run the sump pump, furnace, refrigerator, well pump and the kitchen lights and outlets. The outlets allow us to run a toaster oven or a small microwave oven that previously was used in dorm rooms when our kids were in college. I can also run extension cords to adjoining rooms to power the TV and DVD player as well as lights in the bedroom. After 2 days into that power loss, my wife said it was the best $1,000 I ever spent.

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Swanpoint guy (09-05-2011)

09-05-2011, 07:30 AM	#9
Dave R Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 2,974 Thanks: 246 Thanked 736 Times in 438 Posts	I run a portable 5000 watt that I bought used for $275 after the big ice storm 3 or 4 years ago and a safety interlock on my original breaker panel. This is the least expensive way to make all the circuits in a house live. Off-the-grid living at my place is only slightly less convenient than on-the-grid. I made the interlock myself, but they are available commercially here: http://www.interlockkit.com/. I converted the used 5000 watt machine to electric start so my family can use it in my absence. I also created detailed instruction manuals for them, but it's really quite simple to operate and switch over. Prior to owning the 5000 watt generator, I used a 4000 watt for 15 years and that was not quite powerful enough to run the well, furnace and fridge at the same time. The 5000 watt does so without any issues. Can't run an electric dryer on the 5000 watt, so we hang laundry when without power. The washer runs fine.

09-05-2011, 07:34 AM	#10
Rusty Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 2,028 Thanks: 603 Thanked 687 Times in 425 Posts	Here is another thread that talked about Generators: http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...ight=generator

09-05-2011, 07:55 AM	#11
robmac Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Nashua,Meredith Posts: 951 Thanks: 213 Thanked 106 Times in 81 Posts	I had to have a new service installed in my house house and had the company install a switch for the generator for power outages. I simply throw the switch plug the cord in and fire up the generator. The only thing I would and will change when this generator dies is go diesel.

09-05-2011, 08:54 AM	#12
ITD Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Moultonboro, NH Posts: 2,860 Thanks: 461 Thanked 666 Times in 366 Posts	In my Mass. house I just installed a 6 circuit transfer switch that I had bought 2 years ago. It was this model switch http://www.reliancecontrols.com/Prod...il.aspx?20216A with the outdoor receptacle. I installed it myself and it was pretty easy, taking me about two hours to install (switch and outdoor plug). The only thing I would do over again is install a larger switch, they have a 10 circuit switch so I could have more options to simple switch things on an off. It is important not to draw more current than the generator can supply, this switch has watt meters on it. The only other problem I had was my generator was a coleman 4000 watt model, the 240v plug only had 3 prongs, 2 hot and 1 ground. The switch has a 4 wire plug. I rewired the generator with a 4 wire plug, and made it a floating neutral, which allows the generator to be grounded thru the house ground and is safer in when connected like this. I also had to adjust my generator as it was putting out 136 volts, the adjustment turned out to be simple as I slowed down the engine so that it produced 120 volts. The switch is the best option for me as my wife can easily connect the generator. For now, if I need power at the lake I run a couple extension cords and hook up what I need. We haven't had an extended outage in my area in Moultonboro in many years.

09-05-2011, 09:22 AM	#13
tis Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,410 Thanks: 719 Thanked 1,381 Times in 957 Posts	I don't know what size ours is, but it switches on automatically and does the heat, refrigerator, water pump, sump pumps, septic, pump, lights, microwave, tv. I don't know if I forgot anything. Anyway, I would not want to be without it. We have three tanks of bottled gas and the only thing we don't know is how long it would run before the gas runs out. Three days? Five days? We just don't know. Fortunately we have never had to test it. I just found out it is a 10 kw Last edited by tis; 09-05-2011 at 12:57 PM.

09-05-2011, 10:50 AM	#14
ishoot308 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Gilford, NH / Welch Island Posts: 5,931 Thanks: 2,289 Thanked 4,941 Times in 1,917 Posts	I have a 6500 watt Honda portable generator that I use at the camp. It pretty much runs the entire camp less the electric stove and washer / dryer. While this generator is ridiculously expensive it is ultra quiet and the safety features really paid off during Irene. I had no problem leaving the camp during the day and let the generator run. It has an overload protection switch which kicked in thanks to an iron that was supposed to have an automatic off switch which was defective. The overload protection switch not only saved the generator but many appliances and electronics in the camp as well. It also sipped fuel at a rate of 4 gallons over a 12 hour period while under load using the "eco-throttle" setting. Can't say enough good about this generator! At our main home we use an 18,000 watt Generac portable gas generator that runs everything including the stove and washer / dryer. It is a brute of a generator and loud (I have no neighbors!) but runs well. It does however suck down fuel like crazy at about a gallon an hour at full load. Wouldn't be without a generator at either home. They are invaluable! Dan Last edited by ishoot308; 09-05-2011 at 11:51 AM.

09-05-2011, 04:01 PM	#16
SAMIAM Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 2,836 Thanks: 326 Thanked 1,626 Times in 562 Posts	I have the same set up as NHskier with one exception.I had mine hooked to our household propane tank (1,000gal) so I don't have to worry about refueling durring prolonged use.

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Swanpoint guy (09-05-2011)

09-06-2011, 07:54 AM	#18
SIKSUKR Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 5,075 Thanks: 215 Thanked 903 Times in 509 Posts	Power your whole panel I don't understand why one would install an x#circuit switch. Just power the whole panel and use anything you want. No need to shut off breakers. Of course your limited by the output of your generator but so what. Its clear to see when you turn on that stove you put too much load on it. 2 things happen..Your lights dim really low and the gen really struggles and almost stalls or it does stall. Simply don't put that much load on it and restart. Most 5000 watts, like the 2 I own, will power all your necessary needs like fridge, water pump, oil burner, tv's, plus many lights. I used my micro last week also. No drying laundry and cooking in the oven but I got a gas grill if I really need heat for cooking. Actually a few years ago I used a "set it and forget it" rotisserie for 3 hours. Never be without one again. __________________ SIKSUKR

09-06-2011, 08:34 AM	#19
Belmont Resident Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Belmont NH but prefer Jackman Maine Posts: 1,857 Thanks: 491 Thanked 409 Times in 251 Posts	siksukr If you have the panel powered without a transfer switch you could put power outside of your house and electrocute someone working on the lines. A transfer switch is required and works two ways. One to limit power to those items that can be supplied safely and two as an automatic shutoff switch. It prevents back feeding the power outside of your house. Also I’ve heard that generators at Lowes and HD (Generac)will not be the same as those sold elsewhere. They are in fact seconds that have been repaired or did not meet standards at the factory and thus are purchased as such and sold as first quality at HD & Lowes.

09-06-2011, 09:36 AM	#20
codeman671 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,360 Thanks: 210 Thanked 764 Times in 448 Posts	I have fed my entire panel through a hot tub hookup outside the house once when in need, but shut off the main before doing so. A 5000 watt generator had us up and running quite nicely. It is not to code, nor probably legal to do so but it got us through in a pinch and I was careful enough not to backfeed the lines. Since then we switched to a 12kw GE whole house system with a dedicated 320 gallon LPG tank. The setup worked great during the 4 days we were without last week. I did stall it out 3 times while running 3 zones of AC plus the oven and 3 refrigerators (and everything else in the house) but a simple reset and power down of a few items and we were good. I still keep the 5000 watt in the shed. I also uses a 2000 watt generac portable (suitcase style) at the island to run the 2 refrigerators when the power was down last week.

09-06-2011, 10:22 AM	#21
Kamper Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Thornton's Ferry Posts: 1,296 Thanks: 67 Thanked 166 Times in 126 Posts	When using a "suicide plug" you are assuming that your wiring and breaker system are working normally and properly installed. A reasonable and exceedingly likely expectation. As I understand it... The supposed risk is that there could be a system flaw. The normal household breakers are only hooked up to the black (hot) lines. If a circuit is mis-wired you may back-feed power through the return line. This was much more likely in the days before grounded systems and cheap reliable testing equipment. Not to mention licensure for professional electricians.

09-06-2011, 06:45 PM	#25
Swanpoint guy Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: CT & Moultonboro NH Posts: 27 Thanks: 14 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Thanks A ton of great information on this thread. Now I have some work to do before winter.

09-06-2011, 09:01 PM	#26
Belkin Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 33 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post	Whole panel interlock I agree with Siksukr. It is best to power your whole panel. We used an electrician to install an interlock. You can not turn on the breakers for the generator unless you turn off the main. This ensures that you do not back feed the power lines. When using it, we start off by turning off all of the breakers. Then we turn on the ones we need (heat, water, fridge, etc.) taking care not to exceed the limit of the generator. This gives you complete flexibility since you can turn on any circuit you want. Some friends of ours have a six circuit transfer switch and they end up running extension cords all over the house to keep the lights on. With the whole panel interlock, you can turn on as many breakers as you want provided you watch the total power.

09-06-2011, 09:39 PM	#27
MarkinNH Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 392 Thanks: 177 Thanked 146 Times in 76 Posts	The interlock may be a viable option but IMO it has flaws. 1- you have to be at the house in order to activate it. 2- how do you know when the street power has been restored. Personally, I would spend the extra money and set the system up through a suitable Automatic Transfer Switch. Why ! 1- you don't have to be at the house in order for it to work 2- when the ATS senses that street power has been restored it will shut the generator down and swap the load back to the street power. 3- I certainly don't want to have to climb out of bed at 1:00 AM on some cold winter night in the middle of a northeaster, pull my generator out into the driveway, start it up, go throw a bunch of breakers off , go plug the generator in, and then go turn the breakers back on, go crawl back into bed, lay there for the next few hours and wonder if the street power has been restored yet so that I can go back out into the stormy weather to reverse the procedure and put it away. Nope not me !! When I feel flush enough to spend the money on installing a standby generator for our house it will be a suitable unit, large enough to power ALL the necessities, required luxury's, with room to spare for future growth, LP fired and fully automatic. In the long run, the added expense( and it's not like your going to have to re mortgage the house) will be well worth the comfort, peace of mind, ease of use. Do it Once, Do it Right. That's my 2 cents worth

09-07-2011, 06:43 AM	#28
Belmont Resident Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Belmont NH but prefer Jackman Maine Posts: 1,857 Thanks: 491 Thanked 409 Times in 251 Posts	Rlw Have you ever gone thru HD or Lowes for warranty or repair work? The info on Generac came from a certified Generac dealer. They will not work on units sold at HD or Lowes. You have to go thru HD or Lowes for service. The info could be wrong but I'd hate to find out the hard way for a few dallars saved. Someone I'm working for had issues with a dryer from Lowes. I'm not sure how many times they showed up, I believe 3 or 4, to repair the unit before he finally got a brand new replacement. That would defeat the whole purpose during an extended power outage.

09-10-2011, 07:11 PM	#31
Swanpoint guy Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: CT & Moultonboro NH Posts: 27 Thanks: 14 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Interlock I have to agree. The big advantage of powering the whole panel is the flexibility to select the idea circuits to power in either the summer or winter. It's hard to fit all that on a generator panel.

12-18-2011, 12:29 PM	#33
Swanpoint guy Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: CT & Moultonboro NH Posts: 27 Thanks: 14 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Powers Generator Service 2 things... Based on this Thead I installed an Interlock device with a 7500kW portable generator on our home in CT. Got the work done just in time for our Outober buzzard that left 1million CT neighbors without power!! We were out for 7 days but the generator setup was great and life went on without a hiccup. By the end of the week we had a little refugee camp staying at our house but that was kinda fun. Now we still need a solution here at the lake. Since we're not always here I think it should be an automatic standby setup. Has anyone heard of "Powers Generwtor Service" in Concord? Their website looks good Again, thanks to all who gave advice on this Thread

12-18-2011, 12:53 PM	#34
MarkinNH Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 392 Thanks: 177 Thanked 146 Times in 76 Posts	I have heard a few stories that would give me concern as to their ethics but I have No personal experience with them. There is also Rowan Electric Generator based in Sandwich/Moultonborough http://www.rowanelectricgenerators.com/

02-06-2012, 12:53 PM	#35
TNT Electrical Contractor Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 3 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Generator TNT Electrical Contractor sells and installs generators and transfer switches of all sizes. You may find availability is limited due to the past storms(October) We have a few in stock.

02-06-2012, 01:20 PM	#36
RLW Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Alton Bay on the mountain by a lake Posts: 2,023 Thanks: 563 Thanked 444 Times in 311 Posts	*TNT Electrical Contractor,* I just noticed that you are fairly new to the forum and glad you have joined us. Have fun and enjoy the Winni Forum while making many new friends. Best of luck selling/installing your product of generators. I purchased an whole house unit 2 years ago and it is the best peace of mind expenditure that my wife and I have spent. __________________ There is nothing better than living on Alton Mountain & our grand kids visits.

02-07-2012, 09:29 AM	#37
Kamper Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Thornton's Ferry Posts: 1,296 Thanks: 67 Thanked 166 Times in 126 Posts	Comcast Commercial Accounts - 24 hours This jogged my memory... I lost net service and power during the 'Snowtober' storm. At the time I had a back up location to go to. Another employee later learned we had the same commerical type account with Comcast and it includes a service recovery guarantee of 24 hours as long as you have electricity. She said since I had a generator I should have called them and told them I had power and they would have prioritised the lines to my home-office. I haven't had a chance to test this but if anyone does, or has, please tell me how it went.