Immediate Help Needed

ishoot308 · 02-12-2010, 09:25 PM

All;

In an attempt to help someone else out who was almost through the ice on their ATV at a pressure ridge, I left my camp on Welch island and rushed to his aid. Unfortunately while helping him I lost my Polaris Ranger to the bottom of the lake less than an hour ago. Everyone got out safely and no one was hurt.

I'm am staying out at my Camp on Welch island and I need to now contact a reputable vehicle recovery company first thing tomorrow morning to get it out and hopefully recover what I can.

The police and fire department have been notified and showed up to help, but I need to get the Ranger out ASAP.

I would appreciate any quick info on a recovery company. A phone number or address would be great!

Thanks!!

Dan

Lakesrider · 02-12-2010, 09:31 PM

Here is at least one for you.

http://www.divewinnipesaukee.com/

4 North Main Street
Wolfeboro, NH 03894
(603) 569-8080

riverat · 02-12-2010, 09:33 PM

http://www.mooringman.com/

ishoot308 · 02-12-2010, 09:35 PM

Thank you Lakesrider!!

Your quick response is appreciated. They were the company I was thinking of but could not remember their name!

Again Thanks!

Dan

ishoot308 · 02-12-2010, 10:52 PM

Thank You Riiverat!

Dan

WeirsBeachBoater · 02-12-2010, 11:02 PM

Gulbickis Towing, has raised more vehicles out of the lake then anyone else I know. They have diver on their contacts etc... 366-5402

ishoot308 · 02-12-2010, 11:42 PM

Thank you W.B.B.!! The Gilford Fire Department just recommended them as well!

Hopefully one of the above recovery companies can help me out quickly.

Thank you all!!

Dan

VitaBene · 02-13-2010, 08:51 AM

Dan,

That is terrible. I hope all else is well, PM if I can help in any way. Was the engine off?

Thanks for being a good samaritan- it is nice to see in today's world.

Be safe,

John

jmen24 · 02-13-2010, 09:34 AM

Dan,
When you get it out of the water, send me a PM. My ATV went through the ice two winters ago and swallowed a big gulp of water, it took awhile to get it back to top shape (no new parts required, just lots of fluid changes and patience), but I have been using it every since without any side affects. Good luck with the recovery, I know what you are going through, at least you were not hurt.

First thing, I assume you are not at a location to read this, but pull the spark plugs when it comes out of the water, before you leave the ice and get it into a heated garage, allow it to warm up to the point that it can be touched and not feel really cold.

Jeremy

ishoot308 · 02-13-2010, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WeirsBeachBoater

Gulbickis Towing, has raised more vehicles out of the lake then anyone else I know. They have diver on their contacts etc... 366-5402

They called me back at 7:00 A.M. this morning and were out here looking at it within 30 minutes. They are taking care of the entire job. It should be out of the water today if all goes well!! It's only in about 15' of water.

Thanks again!

Dan

ishoot308 · 02-13-2010, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VitaBene

Dan,

That is terrible. I hope all else is well, PM if I can help in any way. Was the engine off?

Thanks for being a good samaritan- it is nice to see in today's world.

Be safe,

John

Thanks John;

Yes the engine was running and lights stayed on under water for quite some time. Very strange looking at your vehicle lights under the water and ice when it's dark!! An experience I rather not repeat!! At least no one was hurt and I can replace the Ranger.

Dan

ishoot308 · 02-13-2010, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmen24

Dan,
When you get it out of the water, send me a PM. My ATV went through the ice two winters ago and swallowed a big gulp of water, it took awhile to get it back to top shape (no new parts required, just lots of fluid changes and patience), but I have been using it every since without any side affects. Good luck with the recovery, I know what you are going through, at least you were not hurt.

First thing, I assume you are not at a location to read this, but pull the spark plugs when it comes out of the water, before you leave the ice and get it into a heated garage, allow it to warm up to the point that it can be touched and not feel really cold.

Jeremy

Hi Jeremy;

Thanks for the info! Got your P.M. and will reply later on tonight. Unfortunately this Ranger had lots of electrical components and switches as it had a hardside fully enclosed and heated cab and tracks. I will try to pull the plugs and do as you said unfortunately the recovery people hang on to the Ranger until insurance pays them. They seem to be really good so maybe they will do this for me... From what I have heard once a vehicle is submerged it is considered a total loss by the insurance company... I guess I won't know until I contact them.

Off line for a while, lot's of work to do now...

Dan

SAMIAM · 02-13-2010, 05:00 PM

Years ago my boat went down at the dock with a 200HP Evinrude.....After I floated it, pulled the plugs, changed fluids and blew all the water out. Put the plugs back in, started it up and ran it hard for about an hour. Never had another problem with it.

jmen24 · 02-13-2010, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

Years ago my boat went down at the dock with a 200HP Evinrude.....After I floated it, pulled the plugs, changed fluids and blew all the water out. Put the plugs back in, started it up and ran it hard for about an hour. Never had another problem with it.

SAMIAM, that is exactly how I handled the atv. Took 8 oil changes, running about five minutes between the first few then longer as the oil stayed cleaner.

Mine was the same as Dan's, lights on, middle of the night, from the campsite it was about a 1/4 mile away, the lights were still going, they stayed on until we got it out of the water 1 1/2 hrs or so and shut them off. You are in better shape that you did not have to pull your friend from the water as he was the rider. Tossed him in the Rhino that I was driving and got him to the camp fire and changed into dry cloths, left him with the girls and went back to go fishing. The edge of the hole was over 4" thick. Temp was hovering at about 0, the atv was literally a solid block of ice by the time we got it to a garage for the rest of the night.

Dan, good luck with everything, if you have the opportunity and need to find a home for the tracks, drop a pm.

ishoot308 · 02-14-2010, 07:05 AM

Thanks all;

Guilbicki's got it out yesterday with the help of two divers who used float bags. Minimal damage occurred while raising it and getting it out. According to Guilbicki's it is considered a total loss by the insurance company.

BTW...This occurred directly between Locke's and Rock island in 15' of water.

Thanks for all your help, recommendations and private emails of concern.

Dan

Here's a couple of pics...

DBA · 02-14-2010, 09:15 AM

We have to convey how sorry we are that this happened to you, especially when you were helping someone else. So sorry.
DBA

fatlazyless · 02-14-2010, 09:31 AM

YaNeverKnow...maybe that HK Motorsports-Laconia, a Polaris Ranger dealer, can bring this puppy back to life: A heated garage, a couple-three $13 gallons of bright red Mystery Oil hand-cranked through the cylinder spark plug holes to displace the leftover water.....and budda-bing-bang-boom....it could be good to go, again. If anyone can do it.........it's ......... HK!

Just watch them bring a $15,000 machine back from insurance salvage junk (comprehensive coverage?) with some heat, some Mystery Oil and a couple electric jolts.....seems like it should be doable.....after all, it's designed for rugged outdoor use....and it's made by www.polarisindustries.com, somewhere in Minnesota...

eillac@dow · 02-14-2010, 09:36 AM

I also wish to convey how sorry I am. Thankfully, no one was hurt. Hopefully, you will have some luck with getting it back running.

eillac

hockeypuck · 02-14-2010, 10:06 AM

Good to see the Ranger above ice, even better that no one was injured on your mission of mercy. Here's a few questions I have that some of the posters may have the answers to. Who pays for the extraction, tow and storage? How much did Gulbicki charge for this type of service? If it has been totaled by the Ins. Co. I assume once you accept the check it belongs to the Ins. Co. Can it be sold or must it be crushed? Can a totaled vehicle that has been recovered and restored be legally registered? Does the Ranger have to be registered for on road use? I'm not a mechanic, but from what has been posted i think I would dry it out and give it a try.

secondcurve · 02-14-2010, 10:10 AM

Ishoot:

Have the ice conditions substantially deteriorated on most of the lake or were you just unfortunate to hit an unusually thin spot? Did you jump out of the vehicle as it was falling through the ice or was the vehicle stationary and unoccupied? Also, how much did the recovery cost? I'm glad you are okay and hopefully the person you were helping out was appreciative. Good luck!!

ishoot308 · 02-14-2010, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockeypuck

Good to see the Ranger above ice, even better that no one was injured on your mission of mercy. Here's a few questions I have that some of the posters may have the answers to. Who pays for the extraction, tow and storage? How much did Gulbicki charge for this type of service? If it has been totaled by the Ins. Co. I assume once you accept the check it belongs to the Ins. Co. Can it be sold or must it be crushed? Can a totaled vehicle that has been recovered and restored be legally registered? Does the Ranger have to be registered for on road use? I'm not a mechanic, but from what has been posted i think I would dry it out and give it a try.

Hi H.P.;

The extraction should be covered and paid for by my insurance company. I have not received the final bill yet but was told it will be around $5000.00. Once it is totaled by my insurance company, they give me a check and take ownership of the vehicle. From what I was told by the recovery people they put these vehicles up for auction. Since the Ranger can only be registered for off road use (OHRV) there is no title just a certificate of origin so I am pretty sure they can be resold.

I do not feel it would be worth the time to try and fix this myself. If I attempt to, I am pretty sure I would lose all claims to my insurance and who knows what would happen a couple months down the road once it's running. I feel it would be best to take the insurance check and simply buy another. This is what I have insurance for...

Dan

ishoot308 · 02-14-2010, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by secondcurve

Ishoot:

Have the ice conditions substantially deteriorated on most of the lake or were you just unfortunate to hit an unusually thin spot? Did you jump out of the vehicle as it was falling through the ice or was the vehicle stationary and unoccupied? Also, how much did the recovery cost? I'm glad you are okay and hopefully the person you were helping out was appreciative. Good luck!!

Hi S.C.;

No the ice conditions have not deteriorated and are just fine. There was 16" of ice around where I went through. What happened is we went to help a friend of a friend who called us at my camp on Welch island. He had attempted to cross a pressure ridge and the front end of his ATV went in the water and he could not get it out. This pressure ridge runs from Locke's island all the way to Belknap Point. We found a safe place to cross it just an hour or so before when we were heading out to my camp.

Anyway, when we got to the ATV in trouble I had to get to the other side of the ridge to try and pull him out. I decided to go where I safely crossed just an hour prior. When I got to that spot and attempted to cross I went through. The ice had apparently shifted some in that hours time and caused cracks and weakened the area I had crossed safely just before. I was able to get the door of the ranger opened slightly enough to get my body out and I literally propelled myself out on to the ice. Don't ask me how as I am not a small man whatsoever! My passenger and friend was not as lucky as the ice made it impossible for him to open his door. I had to get on my hands and knees and literally grab him by the arm and pull him out my door as the vehicle was sinking. It's amazing the strength you have in a situation like this! All of this took place in about 5-7 seconds before the ranger was on the bottom. My passenger got wet from the waist down and I was dry as bone.

I have asked myself if there was anything I would of done differently in this same situation and the answer keeps coming up no except maybe keeping the doors open on the Ranger. I consider myself to be an extremely safe and level headed person. I don't take unnecessary chances. This is just one of those things that can occur when your out on the ice. I will be back out next weekend and hopefully this trip won't be as eventful!

Oh yeah...The ATV was pulled out without an issue!

Dan

fatlazyless · 02-14-2010, 11:22 AM

Hey guy....you probably know that insurance usually does not pay new replacement cost but pays out actual cash value (depreciation) minus the deductible for comprehensive coverage like hitting a moose, or breaking through the ice...or having a tree fall on machine....

At $5000., that seems like some fast easy money for Gulbicki....and probably insurance pays for all the $5000 as a cost of recovery which has no deductible for the policy holder...

ishoot308 · 02-14-2010, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Hey guy....you probably know that insurance usually does not pay new replacement cost but pays out actual cash value (depreciation) minus the deductible for comprehensive coverage like hitting a moose, or breaking through the ice...or having a tree fall on machine....

At $5000., that seems like some fast easy money for Gulbicki....and probably insurance pays for all the $5000 as a cost of recovery which has no deductible for the policy holder...

I can tell you FLL that it was not fast and it was not easy to pull that thing up. They had the right equipment and people to do the job right, and they were right there immediately when I needed them. Two divers in the freezing water for a couple hours with all their gear and equipment not to mention the fact this was a weekend day so premium time expenses are incurred and expected. The $5000.00 was worth every penny considering the fines that the D.E.S. imposes if it's in the water more than 72 hours!!

I do not expect replacement value as the Ranger was not new. My insurance company knows what I paid for it and what extras were added and at what cost. All I expect is what I paid for it + extras, minus any depreciation and the deductibles. Not looking to gain anything, that's just not my way...

Dan

tis · 02-14-2010, 11:45 AM

OMG, what a terrifying experience! I am so glad that you and your friend are ok. It must have been you LUCKY day.

lawn psycho · 02-14-2010, 01:34 PM

Wow that's quite a machine. How much does it weigh? Can you get some images to show the area where you went through? This is another example of why I have no intentions of ever driving on the ice.

I'd at least have them pull the plugs and drain the block. I'll bet that machine can be made to run without issues. Change all your fluids and your good. Any hydraulics and fuel lines that are under pressure are probably untouched.

Glad too see no one was hurt.

Pineedles · 02-14-2010, 01:48 PM

Dan,

Glad to hear you and your passenger were OK. Pretty frightening episode.

Pineedles

ishoot308 · 02-14-2010, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawn psycho

Wow that's quite a machine. How much does it weigh? Can you get some images to show the area where you went through? This is another example of why I have no intentions of ever driving on the ice.

I'd at least have them pull the plugs and drain the block. I'll bet that machine can be made to run without issues. Change all your fluids and your good. Any hydraulics and fuel lines that are under pressure are probably untouched.

Glad too see no one was hurt.

L.P.

It weighs about 1300 lbs. I have no better pictures of the surrounding area but as stated earlier, this happened directly between Locke's and Pig island. This is about 1/2 mile out directly in front of Marine patrol.

As far as driving on the ice...I have no problem driving snowmobiles, ATV's and UTV's on the ice and will continue to do so. (I do not take my auto's on the ice) There is more than enough ice to handle the weight of any of these vehicles and then some. These are the same types of vehicles that Fish & Game use to get around in on the ice.

Pressure ridges are a different thing however and this year for whatever reason they are worse than ever! I have never seen as many and as tall as they are this year.Simply walking over them in the wrong spot and you could go for a swim. I have literally crossed thousands of them safely over the years. Sometimes however, the laws of probability will kick in!! Hopefully that was my last lotto winner!!

Dan

ishoot308 · 02-14-2010, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pineedles

Dan,

Glad to hear you and your passenger were OK. Pretty frightening episode.

Pineedles

Thanks Pineedles!

Dan

dpg · 02-15-2010, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ishoot308

I can tell you FLL that it was not fast and it was not easy to pull that thing up. They had the right equipment and people to do the job right, and they were right there immediately when I needed them. Two divers in the freezing water for a couple hours with all their gear and equipment not to mention the fact this was a weekend day so premium time expenses are incurred and expected. The $5000.00 was worth every penny considering the fines that the D.E.S. imposes if it's in the water more than 72 hours!!

I do not expect replacement value as the Ranger was not new. My insurance company knows what I paid for it and what extras were added and at what cost. All I expect is what I paid for it + extras, minus any depreciation and the deductibles. Not looking to gain anything, that's just not my way...

Dan

Sorry to hear that Dan...I agree with you, I would not be happy trying to dry it out and get it running again either. I just always "would know" it was in the water. And maybe when you most need it, it would decide it didn't want to start for you.

If it's do-able for you get your payment and look for something else. Maybe you can find a left over '09 heading into the spring. I don't know but assume it's your (only) mode of transport in the winter to your place. Well...Chin up...Your still around to tell the story anyways!!!

jmen24 · 02-15-2010, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawn psycho

Wow that's quite a machine. How much does it weigh? Can you get some images to show the area where you went through? This is another example of why I have no intentions of ever driving on the ice.

I'd at least have them pull the plugs and drain the block. I'll bet that machine can be made to run without issues. Change all your fluids and your good. Any hydraulics and fuel lines that are under pressure are probably untouched.

Glad too see no one was hurt.

The problem at this point is that it will sit in an impound yard until everything is paid up and squared away. The time to start the flushing and drying process was yesturday, it is possible that someone could still get it running but at a considerable investment, beyond the price at auction. Dan, you are taking the only road that will ensure you piece of mind. After it sits for a week or two or more, I would not touch this with a ten foot pole.

The process to rid an atv of a bath is easy but time consuming. Lots of things to drain and dry out and many, many fluid changes.

Dan, good luck shopping, I was going to say a RZR would be a nice replacement, but after looking at your setup, it would not have enough work in its blood for you. Glad you guys made it out and all is well, you now have quite a story to share.

fatlazyless · 02-15-2010, 08:32 AM

I've read in one of those backpage articles in the Union Leader that about 41% of NH boaters are boating with no insurance, so it seems likely to apply to snowmobiles and atv's too.

Removing a Ranger from 15' wihout insurance probably ends up costing a whole lot less than Gulbicki's $5000 removal fee when the uninsured owner calls around and chat's up the tow removal-diver co; "Ranger down 15'-no insurance-whatcha gonna deal me buddy?" You can alway, always, always find someone from Groton or Thornton or Alton or somewhere who will do a good job for a lot less. There's always someone willing to do it for less, when it's cash with no insurance, plus you end up with a Ranger that came back from the deep and still runs.

That's the way that the uninsured 41% seems to get by, and it usually works out ok.

ishoot308 · 02-15-2010, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmen24

The problem at this point is that it will sit in an impound yard until everything is paid up and squared away. The time to start the flushing and drying process was yesturday, it is possible that someone could still get it running but at a considerable investment, beyond the price at auction. Dan, you are taking the only road that will ensure you piece of mind. After it sits for a week or two or more, I would not touch this with a ten foot pole.

The process to rid an atv of a bath is easy but time consuming. Lots of things to drain and dry out and many, many fluid changes.

Dan, good luck shopping, I was going to say a RZR would be a nice replacement, but after looking at your setup, it would not have enough work in its blood for you. Glad you guys made it out and all is well, you now have quite a story to share.

Jmen;

You are 100% correct. The time for drying out was immediately after it was pulled. You are also correct that the recovery company hangs on to the vehicle until they are paid by the insurance company. I was actually thinking of paying the recovery people cash myself then submitting a bill to the insurance but not sure that would be the best thing to do at this point.

The other issue is if the Ranger was not kept in a heated garage while in storage. The water in the engine I am certain would have froze and caused all kinds of damage. I think I am doing the right thing by simply allowing my insurance company to handle the entire issue their way.

The RZR is a nice rig, but I need the bed storage area of that the Ranger offers as well as the plowing and pulling aspects I need.

Hopefully I'll have another soon and will be back out enjoying the winter sports again!

Thanks!

Dan

fatlazyless · 02-15-2010, 09:04 AM

Definately, not having insurance teaches that it is better to have insurance. But, if not insured, probably you never would have gone out to help in the first place, or something like that(?).

ishoot308 · 02-15-2010, 09:21 AM

"That's the way that the uninsured 41% seems to get by, and it usually works out ok."

FLL;

It works out O.K. for these people until someone is injured or killed either in their boat or ATV or the other vehicle which they hit and damaged.

Insurance for boats and ATV's is extremely short money. My fully covered Ranger premium was about $100.00 per year. If you can afford a boat or ATV you certainly should be able to afford the insurance to go along with it.

Dan

hazelnut · 02-15-2010, 10:41 AM

WOW! Just got back from a trip out west and what a lot of reading to catch up on.
Dan first off I am so glad you and your passengers are all ok. I did read your posts on the ice conditions and I was wondering if the lake as a whole is safe? I want to get back up and out there but I was looking for reports from different parts of the lake. Is there a general thickness around the lake now. Has the lack of snow had a positive or negative impact on what was half decent thickness prior to the rain storm that cost us 2 +/- inches of ice?

Thanks for the info and thank god Dan you are safe and dry!!!!

ishoot308 · 02-15-2010, 11:33 AM

Hi Hazelnut;

Thank you for your concern.

I can only comment on the ice in the areas where I have physically checked. That area is around Welch island, Lockes island, Smith Cove and Belknap point. There is plenty of safe ice in these areas for walking, snowmobiling, ATV'ing, etc, etc. Yes vehicles are driving all around these areas but I do not recommend that.

From the holes I have cut there is anywhere from 14" - 18" of solid black ice is in these areas. Obviously in and around dock areas with aerators and especially pressure reefs which seem much worse this year than in years past, care needs to be taken.

Probably the area with the thinnest ice would be the broads side of Rattlesnake island. I know it's frozen but have no idea how much ice is there. I have been told by fisherman how much is there, but really would rather not pass on second hand information where someones safety may come into play. Better off to hear it from someone who has physically checked it.

The lack of snow in my opinion has allowed the lake to freeze a little quicker. We have not had any extremely cold days as of late, yet the ice keeps increasing every week we go out and it's good solid ice.

Please be careful around the reefs!

Dan

dpg · 02-15-2010, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ishoot308

I can tell you FLL that it was not fast and it was not easy to pull that thing up. They had the right equipment and people to do the job right, and they were right there immediately when I needed them. Two divers in the freezing water for a couple hours with all their gear and equipment not to mention the fact this was a weekend day so premium time expenses are incurred and expected. The $5000.00 was worth every penny considering the fines that the D.E.S. imposes if it's in the water more than 72 hours!!

I do not expect replacement value as the Ranger was not new. My insurance company knows what I paid for it and what extras were added and at what cost. All I expect is what I paid for it + extras, minus any depreciation and the deductibles. Not looking to gain anything, that's just not my way...

Dan

I agree with you, I'd be nervous keeping this thing after it spent so much time in the drink.

Webbsatwinni · 02-16-2010, 11:51 AM

Dan,

I am just reading this now, I'm glad everyone is ok. It is good to know that there are people like you on the lake that are willing to help others.

There is an ice ridge over near the north side of Rattlesnake (near Diamond), that we were warned about this weekend. I heard a few snowmobiles went in there. I never really understood ice ridges before this year, but was warned to stay clear as much as possible. Seeing them up close and hearing your story, makes me respect them even more.

Again, I'm glad everyone is safe.

Island-Ho · 02-16-2010, 12:49 PM

Dan, Glad everyone was safe after that scarey experience. Looking at the picture you must have been somewhat south of Lockes to see that much of Round Island. We often see a pressure ridge between the north end of Lockes and Belnap point, sometimes with some water exposed. I expect to be crossing there on Saturday and am looking for a report on the ice surface condition. It may change with today's snow, but is it currently suitable for an ice boat and long distance skating? Usually we ski out to the island, but it doesn't look like will work this year. Anyone else care to comment on the ice before and after Tuesday's snow?

ishoot308 · 02-16-2010, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Island-Ho

Dan, Glad everyone was safe after that scarey experience. Looking at the picture you must have been somewhat south of Lockes to see that much of Round Island. We often see a pressure ridge between the north end of Lockes and Belnap point, sometimes with some water exposed. I expect to be crossing there on Saturday and am looking for a report on the ice surface condition. It may change with today's snow, but is it currently suitable for an ice boat and long distance skating? Usually we ski out to the island, but it doesn't look like will work this year. Anyone else care to comment on the ice before and after Tuesday's snow?

Island Ho;

I was just off the East side of Locke's island directly between Lockes and Pig island. Yes there is a pressure reef that goes from the East side of Lockes all the way to Belknap Point.

The ice between Lockes and Welch island is absolutely flat and couldn't be better for skating. There is another reef once you get close to Welch that also goes all the way to Belknap point but it is very close to shore on Welch. The ice is perfect for what you want to do now, not sure what the snow will bring in however.

Here's a couple pictures of the reef taken from my camp on the West side of Welch. You can see the reef stretch all the way to Belknap point. The pictures really don't do justice to show how tall these reefs really are!

Enjoy!!

Dan

livefreeordie · 02-16-2010, 05:45 PM

Should have called dive winni 5k is way way overpriced to take out a over sized 4 wheeler.... He got our sled out of the channel for 500 a few years back. all the tow companys around here are a rip off. The guy who went threw in Alton bay was getting charged 500 and hour for two days.... If his first call way to dive winni his truck would have been out of the ice only getting the wheels wet....

ishoot308 · 02-16-2010, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by livefreeordie

Should have called dive winni 5k is way way overpriced to take out a over sized 4 wheeler.... He got our sled out of the channel for 500 a few years back. all the tow companys around here are a rip off. The guy who went threw in Alton bay was getting charged 500 and hour for two days.... If his first call way to dive winni his truck would have been out of the ice only getting the wheels wet....

Well unfortunately when something like this happens you don't have the opportunity to put it out for bid. You make your first call to whoever came recommended the most and this instance it was Gulbicki's.

They worked a total of four hours with three divers from Fathom Diving (two in water one on the ice controlling equipment, filling air bags, etc, etc.) 5 or 6 people from Gulbicki's cutting out the ice, working the come alongs and placing and working boards under the vehicle. As well as having two towing snowmobiles, a flatbed wrecker and having the Ranger towed to Manchester I don't feel I was ripped off. I don't think $500.00 would have covered the equipment rental cost if I tried to do it myself. Was it expensive...Yup. Was it worth it...You bet!

Dan

fatlazyless · 02-16-2010, 07:26 PM

Well....it's no doubt pretty much a mute point on how much Gulbicki charges considering they did a very good and very fast job and the insurance policy just costs one hundred dollars/year. Having an Allstate-Progressive-State Farm-Geico etc puts your accident repair-retrieval into a whole different league than when someone is self-insured.

No doubt, a lower price can be found when not having insurance makes it a prerequisit to get it done for less. If insurance is paying, then the price is the ins co's problem.

One hundred dollars sounds kinda low......buy I have no clue on insuring atv-ranger vehicles and know that insuring a boat costs more tha one hundred.

Insurance seems to have all different prices. I know I used to pay over $4000/year for a commercial motor vehicle policy on a 1994 Geo Tracker in Boston that had only $50,000 liability with no collision and no comprehensive from Zurich Ins. It was all I could get and $50,000 liability is definately not enough. There's folks in Boston who purposely stage real fake-accidents, and they go looking for commercial vehicles so's they can get rear-ended and then go to the emergency room for a sore neck-chiropractic-attorney care.....

. Here in NH I pay $550 to Progressive for $500,000 liabilty-collision-comprehensive on a residential type car policy which is very different than the Boston commercial rates.

Glad to hear no one was injured....

Seeker · 02-16-2010, 08:14 PM

What were you delivering - pizzas? I didn't think a Tracker was worth $4000.

fatlazyless · 02-16-2010, 09:20 PM

On Beacon Hill.........it's no big surprise that the insurance cost much much more than the old Geo Tracker.....so I switched to a bicycle.......no parkng tickets, no parking problems, no insurance, no bogus insurance scams, no gasoline, better tips, & better exercise!

You know with studded knobby tires, a bicycle could probably be used to get out to a Winnipesaukee island. That would be a first. Let's compare....a $15,000 Polaris Ranger vs a $150 second hand, mountain bike with special studded tires. The islands are usually no further than one or two miles from the shoreline take-off spot.....so a bicycle could be pretty practical for peddling across the frozen lake. Never a problem getting it started, and no trailer needed, just a bike rack. Plus, it's slow speed probably makes it safer than hitting an unseen pressure ridge at 45-mph.

A bicycle.....must be a bicycle shop somewhere in the lakes region that can install ice studs into knoby tires.....any suggestions?

jmen24 · 02-17-2010, 09:14 AM

That would be one large backpack to carry all the equipment and tools Dan had in the bed of that Ranger, while riding a bike across the ice.

Dan, I do not think that you got ripped off, when you think about what is involved. This rig does weigh about three times the average snowmobile or atv, I know those track kits weigh a wee bit more than the 26" 589's on my Foreman.

I would also think that the insurance company would prefer it to be in good visual condition, so they can get as much as possible at auction, based on the pictures, someone is going to get roped into buying a beautiful basket case, for more than they probably should.

The job that was done on that truck in Alton was awful, I would think that $500 an hour would be way to high for what they did to that vehicle, heck I would have charged half that and just dragged it under the ice with a winch line and up the shore and it still would have been in better shape. (not really, but you know what I am saying)

Less, as far as insurance goes, I had a 1990 Jeep XJ lifted for offroad use only (it was street legal, but not a daily driver) insurance for that vehicle a year was $156.00 a year, liability only, as I would not have rebuilt it if it was totaled, just strip the parts and move on. That's a road legal and driveable vehicle Less, I think you need to have better conversations with your insurance rep.

Merrymeeting · 02-17-2010, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Well....it's no doubt pretty much a mute point

If it's a mute point, does that mean when you talk about it no one hears you?

SIKSUKR · 02-17-2010, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merrymeeting

If it's a mute point, does that mean when you talk about it no one hears you?

What?I thought I heard something.

ishoot308 · 02-17-2010, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmen24

That would be one large backpack to carry all the equipment and tools Dan had in the bed of that Ranger, while riding a bike across the ice.

Dan, I do not think that you got ripped off, when you think about what is involved. This rig does weigh about three times the average snowmobile or atv, I know those track kits weigh a wee bit more than the 26" 589's on my Foreman.

I would also think that the insurance company would prefer it to be in good visual condition, so they can get as much as possible at auction, based on the pictures, someone is going to get roped into buying a beautiful basket case, for more than they probably should.

The job that was done on that truck in Alton was awful, I would think that $500 an hour would be way to high for what they did to that vehicle, heck I would have charged half that and just dragged it under the ice with a winch line and up the shore and it still would have been in better shape. (not really, but you know what I am saying)

Less, as far as insurance goes, I had a 1990 Jeep XJ lifted for offroad use only (it was street legal, but not a daily driver) insurance for that vehicle a year was $156.00 a year, liability only, as I would not have rebuilt it if it was totaled, just strip the parts and move on. That's a road legal and driveable vehicle Less, I think you need to have better conversations with your insurance rep.

Jmen;

Thanks!

Gulbicki charged me $50.00 per man hour for his men which in my opinion is a bargain for a weekend day. Heck, I have to charge more than that for the laborers at my company during normal working hours to break even! The divers charged a flat rate of $2500.00 There was also equipment, towing and storage fees. All legit charges in my opinion.

FLL's "bargain basement" thinking does not work out in a situation like this as you simply do not have time or luxury to "shop it out". D.E.S fines start kicking in 48 hours after the accident so time is of the essence in getting the vehicle removed from the water. And yes, D.E.S. does get informed by the police, fire department or Fish & Game of all submerged vehicles so the clock is ticking.

You are 100% correct in your assessment of taking care during vehicle recovery so the insurance company at least has a vehicle to part out. The adjuster came to look at it today and was happy and surprised to see it in great condition (other than the water logged engine!

). I was informed that it goes to a salvage auction and there is literally thousands of dollars of parts that can be salvaged. Hopefully the insurance company will recoup as much cost as possible through the salvage auction.

P.M. sent...

Thanks!

Dan

eillac@dow · 02-17-2010, 01:51 PM

I guess one would have to be in your shoes to say whether or not they made the right decision. I personally think you did. It went in....so let's get it out and get it out now.

Like you say, D.E.S. will be notified and there is no way of getting around it. Do you or anyone know what kind of fines are imposed by D.E.S.? Just curious.

BTW, thanks for the thread on Pressure Ridges. Never knew what they were until now! Thanks for the education!

ishoot308 · 02-17-2010, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eillac@dow

I guess one would have to be in your shoes to say whether or not they made the right decision. I personally think you did. It went in....so let's get it out and get it out now.

Like you say, D.E.S. will be notified and there is no way of getting around it. Do you or anyone know what kind of fines are imposed by D.E.S.? Just curious.

BTW, thanks for the thread on Pressure Ridges. Never knew what they were until now! Thanks for the education!

Your welcome!

D.E.S. fines are $1000.00 per day. Not sure if they are negotiable like OSHA fines and don't wish to find out!!

Dan

fatlazyless · 02-22-2010, 09:37 AM

"The atv, with its big tires did not sink and was still floating on the surface of the pond."

That's about what it says in today's Feb 22 Union Leader's detailed report on a 53-year old man who drowned last night in Derry, NH, in 6-8 feet of water when he drove from the partially ice covered pond out onto open water at about 11-pm.

I had previously been told that the tire's flotation was not enough to keep an atv afloat, so this here says they do. Yes or no, do they or don't they....maybe there's only one way to tell for any one machine...... by dunk-testing?

If yes, it sure makes an atv easier to retrieve than a snowmo-ranger-pickup truck, plus the driver can easily wear a pfd under a windbreaker. Wearing a pfd would probably change the whole personality of doing a self-rescue as you try to claw yourself up & out. It would be less stressfull, and less panicked, and more engaged & directed energy.

jmen24 · 02-22-2010, 09:52 AM

It really depends on the atv and the tires. For example, my atv is a Honda Foreman 500, with 26" 589's http://www.amazon.com/ITP-Utility-Sn.../dp/B001CD8MLI on Aluminum rims, rig weighs about 650lbs with the tires, only the rear rack on my rig was at the surface, it had a nose angled down attitude while floating. With stock tires it would have sunk like a stone, even at the 200lb lighter weight. I would have taken a picture of it, but my cell and wallet were in the fender box of the atv (came out dry as a bone, rear box was completely full of water).

The old three wheelers with the 25 inch tires would routinely float, straight up and down.

I guess it depends on what you are looking for as far as floating, riding safely accross the top of the water like one of those three wheeled beach bikes, NO. Staying somewhat near the surface, possible, but there really is only one way to find out, put your trunks on.

ishoot308 · 02-22-2010, 10:03 AM

The one I was going to help would supposedly float also, BUT, with the amount of fishing and overnight gear strapped down to it it would of sank for sure.

BTW...Rangers definitely sink...Quickly!!

Dan

02-12-2010, 09:25 PM	#1
ishoot308 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Gilford, NH / Welch Island Posts: 5,931 Thanks: 2,289 Thanked 4,941 Times in 1,917 Posts	Immediate Help Needed All; In an attempt to help someone else out who was almost through the ice on their ATV at a pressure ridge, I left my camp on Welch island and rushed to his aid. Unfortunately while helping him I lost my Polaris Ranger to the bottom of the lake less than an hour ago. Everyone got out safely and no one was hurt. I'm am staying out at my Camp on Welch island and I need to now contact a reputable vehicle recovery company first thing tomorrow morning to get it out and hopefully recover what I can. The police and fire department have been notified and showed up to help, but I need to get the Ranger out ASAP. I would appreciate any quick info on a recovery company. A phone number or address would be great! Thanks!! Dan

02-12-2010, 09:33 PM	#3
riverat Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Alton, NH Posts: 722 Thanks: 337 Thanked 280 Times in 123 Posts	http://www.mooringman.com/ __________________ Waking up in the morning is the greatest, everything after that is a bonus

02-12-2010, 09:35 PM	#4
ishoot308 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Gilford, NH / Welch Island Posts: 5,931 Thanks: 2,289 Thanked 4,941 Times in 1,917 Posts	Thanks! Thank you Lakesrider!! Your quick response is appreciated. They were the company I was thinking of but could not remember their name! Again Thanks! Dan

02-12-2010, 11:42 PM	#7
ishoot308 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Gilford, NH / Welch Island Posts: 5,931 Thanks: 2,289 Thanked 4,941 Times in 1,917 Posts	Thanks! Thank you W.B.B.!! The Gilford Fire Department just recommended them as well! Hopefully one of the above recovery companies can help me out quickly. Thank you all!! Dan

02-13-2010, 08:51 AM	#8
VitaBene Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 3,531 Thanks: 1,570 Thanked 1,607 Times in 822 Posts	Ok? Dan, That is terrible. I hope all else is well, PM if I can help in any way. Was the engine off? Thanks for being a good samaritan- it is nice to see in today's world. Be safe, John

02-12-2010, 09:31 PM	#2
Lakesrider Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,129 Thanks: 380 Thanked 1,016 Times in 345 Posts	Here is at least one for you. http://www.divewinnipesaukee.com/ 4 North Main Street Wolfeboro, NH 03894 (603) 569-8080

02-12-2010, 10:52 PM	#5
ishoot308 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Gilford, NH / Welch Island Posts: 5,931 Thanks: 2,289 Thanked 4,941 Times in 1,917 Posts	Thank You Riiverat! Dan

02-12-2010, 11:02 PM	#6
WeirsBeachBoater Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 709 Blog Entries: 9 Thanks: 39 Thanked 148 Times in 65 Posts	Gulbickis Towing, has raised more vehicles out of the lake then anyone else I know. They have diver on their contacts etc... 366-5402

02-13-2010, 09:34 AM	#9
jmen24 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,139 Thanks: 223 Thanked 319 Times in 181 Posts	Dan, When you get it out of the water, send me a PM. My ATV went through the ice two winters ago and swallowed a big gulp of water, it took awhile to get it back to top shape (no new parts required, just lots of fluid changes and patience), but I have been using it every since without any side affects. Good luck with the recovery, I know what you are going through, at least you were not hurt. First thing, I assume you are not at a location to read this, but pull the spark plugs when it comes out of the water, before you leave the ice and get it into a heated garage, allow it to warm up to the point that it can be touched and not feel really cold. Jeremy

02-13-2010, 05:00 PM	#13
SAMIAM Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 2,836 Thanks: 326 Thanked 1,626 Times in 562 Posts	Years ago my boat went down at the dock with a 200HP Evinrude.....After I floated it, pulled the plugs, changed fluids and blew all the water out. Put the plugs back in, started it up and ran it hard for about an hour. Never had another problem with it.

02-14-2010, 07:05 AM	#15
ishoot308 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Gilford, NH / Welch Island Posts: 5,931 Thanks: 2,289 Thanked 4,941 Times in 1,917 Posts	It's out! Thanks all; Guilbicki's got it out yesterday with the help of two divers who used float bags. Minimal damage occurred while raising it and getting it out. According to Guilbicki's it is considered a total loss by the insurance company. BTW...This occurred directly between Locke's and Rock island in 15' of water. Thanks for all your help, recommendations and private emails of concern. Dan Here's a couple of pics... Attached Images Last edited by ishoot308; 03-16-2010 at 10:18 AM.

02-14-2010, 09:15 AM	#16
DBA Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: By the Lake now Posts: 95 Thanks: 11 Thanked 27 Times in 4 Posts	So sorry this happened We have to convey how sorry we are that this happened to you, especially when you were helping someone else. So sorry. DBA __________________ living by the water....heaven

02-14-2010, 09:31 AM	#17
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,526 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 295 Thanked 957 Times in 698 Posts	YaNeverKnow...maybe that HK Motorsports-Laconia, a Polaris Ranger dealer, can bring this puppy back to life: A heated garage, a couple-three $13 gallons of bright red Mystery Oil hand-cranked through the cylinder spark plug holes to displace the leftover water.....and budda-bing-bang-boom....it could be good to go, again. If anyone can do it.........it's ......... HK! Just watch them bring a $15,000 machine back from insurance salvage junk (comprehensive coverage?) with some heat, some Mystery Oil and a couple electric jolts.....seems like it should be doable.....after all, it's designed for rugged outdoor use....and it's made by www.polarisindustries.com, somewhere in Minnesota... __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake! Last edited by fatlazyless; 02-14-2010 at 10:03 AM.

02-14-2010, 09:36 AM	#18
eillac@dow Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Dow Island & Weymouth, MA Posts: 365 Thanks: 295 Thanked 94 Times in 48 Posts	I also wish to convey how sorry I am. Thankfully, no one was hurt. Hopefully, you will have some luck with getting it back running. eillac

02-14-2010, 10:06 AM	#19
hockeypuck Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Southern CT Posts: 169 Thanks: 19 Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts	Now That It's Above Water Good to see the Ranger above ice, even better that no one was injured on your mission of mercy. Here's a few questions I have that some of the posters may have the answers to. Who pays for the extraction, tow and storage? How much did Gulbicki charge for this type of service? If it has been totaled by the Ins. Co. I assume once you accept the check it belongs to the Ins. Co. Can it be sold or must it be crushed? Can a totaled vehicle that has been recovered and restored be legally registered? Does the Ranger have to be registered for on road use? I'm not a mechanic, but from what has been posted i think I would dry it out and give it a try.

02-14-2010, 10:10 AM	#20
secondcurve Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 2,084 Thanks: 1,267 Thanked 557 Times in 286 Posts	Ishoot: Have the ice conditions substantially deteriorated on most of the lake or were you just unfortunate to hit an unusually thin spot? Did you jump out of the vehicle as it was falling through the ice or was the vehicle stationary and unoccupied? Also, how much did the recovery cost? I'm glad you are okay and hopefully the person you were helping out was appreciative. Good luck!!

02-14-2010, 11:22 AM	#23
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,526 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 295 Thanked 957 Times in 698 Posts	Hey guy....you probably know that insurance usually does not pay new replacement cost but pays out actual cash value (depreciation) minus the deductible for comprehensive coverage like hitting a moose, or breaking through the ice...or having a tree fall on machine.... At $5000., that seems like some fast easy money for Gulbicki....and probably insurance pays for all the $5000 as a cost of recovery which has no deductible for the policy holder... __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake!

02-14-2010, 11:45 AM	#25
tis Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,409 Thanks: 719 Thanked 1,381 Times in 957 Posts	OMG, what a terrifying experience! I am so glad that you and your friend are ok. It must have been you LUCKY day.

02-14-2010, 01:34 PM	#26
lawn psycho Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: On the move... Posts: 987 Thanks: 113 Thanked 248 Times in 133 Posts	Wow that's quite a machine. How much does it weigh? Can you get some images to show the area where you went through? This is another example of why I have no intentions of ever driving on the ice. I'd at least have them pull the plugs and drain the block. I'll bet that machine can be made to run without issues. Change all your fluids and your good. Any hydraulics and fuel lines that are under pressure are probably untouched. Glad too see no one was hurt.

02-14-2010, 01:48 PM	#27
Pineedles Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Moultonborough & CT Posts: 2,535 Thanks: 1,059 Thanked 652 Times in 363 Posts	Dan, Glad to hear you and your passenger were OK. Pretty frightening episode. Pineedles

02-15-2010, 08:32 AM	#32
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,526 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 295 Thanked 957 Times in 698 Posts	.......41% I've read in one of those backpage articles in the Union Leader that about 41% of NH boaters are boating with no insurance, so it seems likely to apply to snowmobiles and atv's too. Removing a Ranger from 15' wihout insurance probably ends up costing a whole lot less than Gulbicki's $5000 removal fee when the uninsured owner calls around and chat's up the tow removal-diver co; "Ranger down 15'-no insurance-whatcha gonna deal me buddy?" You can alway, always, always find someone from Groton or Thornton or Alton or somewhere who will do a good job for a lot less. There's always someone willing to do it for less, when it's cash with no insurance, plus you end up with a Ranger that came back from the deep and still runs. That's the way that the uninsured 41% seems to get by, and it usually works out ok. __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake!

02-15-2010, 09:04 AM	#34
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,526 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 295 Thanked 957 Times in 698 Posts	Definately, not having insurance teaches that it is better to have insurance. But, if not insured, probably you never would have gone out to help in the first place, or something like that(?). __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake!

02-15-2010, 09:21 AM	#35
ishoot308 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Gilford, NH / Welch Island Posts: 5,931 Thanks: 2,289 Thanked 4,941 Times in 1,917 Posts	"That's the way that the uninsured 41% seems to get by, and it usually works out ok." FLL; It works out O.K. for these people until someone is injured or killed either in their boat or ATV or the other vehicle which they hit and damaged. Insurance for boats and ATV's is extremely short money. My fully covered Ranger premium was about $100.00 per year. If you can afford a boat or ATV you certainly should be able to afford the insurance to go along with it. Dan

02-15-2010, 10:41 AM	#36
hazelnut Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 1,348 Blog Entries: 3 Thanks: 508 Thanked 462 Times in 162 Posts	WOW! Just got back from a trip out west and what a lot of reading to catch up on. Dan first off I am so glad you and your passengers are all ok. I did read your posts on the ice conditions and I was wondering if the lake as a whole is safe? I want to get back up and out there but I was looking for reports from different parts of the lake. Is there a general thickness around the lake now. Has the lack of snow had a positive or negative impact on what was half decent thickness prior to the rain storm that cost us 2 +/- inches of ice? Thanks for the info and thank god Dan you are safe and dry!!!!

02-15-2010, 11:33 AM	#37
ishoot308 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Gilford, NH / Welch Island Posts: 5,931 Thanks: 2,289 Thanked 4,941 Times in 1,917 Posts	Hi Hazelnut; Thank you for your concern. I can only comment on the ice in the areas where I have physically checked. That area is around Welch island, Lockes island, Smith Cove and Belknap point. There is plenty of safe ice in these areas for walking, snowmobiling, ATV'ing, etc, etc. Yes vehicles are driving all around these areas but I do not recommend that. From the holes I have cut there is anywhere from 14" - 18" of solid black ice is in these areas. Obviously in and around dock areas with aerators and especially pressure reefs which seem much worse this year than in years past, care needs to be taken. Probably the area with the thinnest ice would be the broads side of Rattlesnake island. I know it's frozen but have no idea how much ice is there. I have been told by fisherman how much is there, but really would rather not pass on second hand information where someones safety may come into play. Better off to hear it from someone who has physically checked it. The lack of snow in my opinion has allowed the lake to freeze a little quicker. We have not had any extremely cold days as of late, yet the ice keeps increasing every week we go out and it's good solid ice. Please be careful around the reefs! Dan

02-16-2010, 11:51 AM	#39
Webbsatwinni Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Lebanon Ct and Rattlesnake Island Since 2007 Posts: 610 Thanks: 180 Thanked 137 Times in 72 Posts	Dan, I am just reading this now, I'm glad everyone is ok. It is good to know that there are people like you on the lake that are willing to help others. There is an ice ridge over near the north side of Rattlesnake (near Diamond), that we were warned about this weekend. I heard a few snowmobiles went in there. I never really understood ice ridges before this year, but was warned to stay clear as much as possible. Seeing them up close and hearing your story, makes me respect them even more. Again, I'm glad everyone is safe.

02-16-2010, 12:49 PM	#40
Island-Ho Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 176 Thanks: 19 Thanked 14 Times in 11 Posts	Ice Surface Dan, Glad everyone was safe after that scarey experience. Looking at the picture you must have been somewhat south of Lockes to see that much of Round Island. We often see a pressure ridge between the north end of Lockes and Belnap point, sometimes with some water exposed. I expect to be crossing there on Saturday and am looking for a report on the ice surface condition. It may change with today's snow, but is it currently suitable for an ice boat and long distance skating? Usually we ski out to the island, but it doesn't look like will work this year. Anyone else care to comment on the ice before and after Tuesday's snow?

02-16-2010, 05:45 PM	#42
livefreeordie Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Alton bay Posts: 61 Thanks: 9 Thanked 15 Times in 7 Posts	Should have called dive winni 5k is way way overpriced to take out a over sized 4 wheeler.... He got our sled out of the channel for 500 a few years back. all the tow companys around here are a rip off. The guy who went threw in Alton bay was getting charged 500 and hour for two days.... If his first call way to dive winni his truck would have been out of the ice only getting the wheels wet....

02-16-2010, 07:26 PM	#44
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,526 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 295 Thanked 957 Times in 698 Posts	Well....it's no doubt pretty much a mute point on how much Gulbicki charges considering they did a very good and very fast job and the insurance policy just costs one hundred dollars/year. Having an Allstate-Progressive-State Farm-Geico etc puts your accident repair-retrieval into a whole different league than when someone is self-insured. No doubt, a lower price can be found when not having insurance makes it a prerequisit to get it done for less. If insurance is paying, then the price is the ins co's problem. One hundred dollars sounds kinda low......buy I have no clue on insuring atv-ranger vehicles and know that insuring a boat costs more tha one hundred. Insurance seems to have all different prices. I know I used to pay over $4000/year for a commercial motor vehicle policy on a 1994 Geo Tracker in Boston that had only $50,000 liability with no collision and no comprehensive from Zurich Ins. It was all I could get and $50,000 liability is definately not enough. There's folks in Boston who purposely stage real fake-accidents, and they go looking for commercial vehicles so's they can get rear-ended and then go to the emergency room for a sore neck-chiropractic-attorney care..... . Here in NH I pay $550 to Progressive for $500,000 liabilty-collision-comprehensive on a residential type car policy which is very different than the Boston commercial rates. Glad to hear no one was injured.... __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake!

02-16-2010, 08:14 PM	#45
Seeker Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Effingham Posts: 408 Thanks: 37 Thanked 19 Times in 15 Posts	What were you delivering - pizzas? I didn't think a Tracker was worth $4000.

02-16-2010, 09:20 PM	#46
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,526 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 295 Thanked 957 Times in 698 Posts	On Beacon Hill.........it's no big surprise that the insurance cost much much more than the old Geo Tracker.....so I switched to a bicycle.......no parkng tickets, no parking problems, no insurance, no bogus insurance scams, no gasoline, better tips, & better exercise! You know with studded knobby tires, a bicycle could probably be used to get out to a Winnipesaukee island. That would be a first. Let's compare....a $15,000 Polaris Ranger vs a $150 second hand, mountain bike with special studded tires. The islands are usually no further than one or two miles from the shoreline take-off spot.....so a bicycle could be pretty practical for peddling across the frozen lake. Never a problem getting it started, and no trailer needed, just a bike rack. Plus, it's slow speed probably makes it safer than hitting an unseen pressure ridge at 45-mph. A bicycle.....must be a bicycle shop somewhere in the lakes region that can install ice studs into knoby tires.....any suggestions? __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake!

02-17-2010, 09:14 AM	#47
jmen24 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,139 Thanks: 223 Thanked 319 Times in 181 Posts	That would be one large backpack to carry all the equipment and tools Dan had in the bed of that Ranger, while riding a bike across the ice. Dan, I do not think that you got ripped off, when you think about what is involved. This rig does weigh about three times the average snowmobile or atv, I know those track kits weigh a wee bit more than the 26" 589's on my Foreman. I would also think that the insurance company would prefer it to be in good visual condition, so they can get as much as possible at auction, based on the pictures, someone is going to get roped into buying a beautiful basket case, for more than they probably should. The job that was done on that truck in Alton was awful, I would think that $500 an hour would be way to high for what they did to that vehicle, heck I would have charged half that and just dragged it under the ice with a winch line and up the shore and it still would have been in better shape. (not really, but you know what I am saying) Less, as far as insurance goes, I had a 1990 Jeep XJ lifted for offroad use only (it was street legal, but not a daily driver) insurance for that vehicle a year was $156.00 a year, liability only, as I would not have rebuilt it if it was totaled, just strip the parts and move on. That's a road legal and driveable vehicle Less, I think you need to have better conversations with your insurance rep.

02-17-2010, 01:51 PM	#51
eillac@dow Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Dow Island & Weymouth, MA Posts: 365 Thanks: 295 Thanked 94 Times in 48 Posts	I guess one would have to be in your shoes to say whether or not they made the right decision. I personally think you did. It went in....so let's get it out and get it out now. Like you say, D.E.S. will be notified and there is no way of getting around it. Do you or anyone know what kind of fines are imposed by D.E.S.? Just curious. BTW, thanks for the thread on Pressure Ridges. Never knew what they were until now! Thanks for the education!

02-22-2010, 09:37 AM	#53
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,526 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 295 Thanked 957 Times in 698 Posts	"The atv, with its big tires did not sink and was still floating on the surface of the pond." That's about what it says in today's Feb 22 Union Leader's detailed report on a 53-year old man who drowned last night in Derry, NH, in 6-8 feet of water when he drove from the partially ice covered pond out onto open water at about 11-pm. I had previously been told that the tire's flotation was not enough to keep an atv afloat, so this here says they do. Yes or no, do they or don't they....maybe there's only one way to tell for any one machine...... by dunk-testing? If yes, it sure makes an atv easier to retrieve than a snowmo-ranger-pickup truck, plus the driver can easily wear a pfd under a windbreaker. Wearing a pfd would probably change the whole personality of doing a self-rescue as you try to claw yourself up & out. It would be less stressfull, and less panicked, and more engaged & directed energy. __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake!

02-22-2010, 09:52 AM	#54
jmen24 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,139 Thanks: 223 Thanked 319 Times in 181 Posts	It really depends on the atv and the tires. For example, my atv is a Honda Foreman 500, with 26" 589's http://www.amazon.com/ITP-Utility-Sn.../dp/B001CD8MLI on Aluminum rims, rig weighs about 650lbs with the tires, only the rear rack on my rig was at the surface, it had a nose angled down attitude while floating. With stock tires it would have sunk like a stone, even at the 200lb lighter weight. I would have taken a picture of it, but my cell and wallet were in the fender box of the atv (came out dry as a bone, rear box was completely full of water). The old three wheelers with the 25 inch tires would routinely float, straight up and down. I guess it depends on what you are looking for as far as floating, riding safely accross the top of the water like one of those three wheeled beach bikes, NO. Staying somewhat near the surface, possible, but there really is only one way to find out, put your trunks on.