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Old 07-10-2018, 09:57 AM   #1
LoveLakeWinni
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Default How's Winnipesaukee's Water Quality?

The lake is under threat from cyanobacteria blooms, milfoil and other invasive plants and animals. Join the Lake Winnipesaukee Association for a discussion regarding the state of Winnipesaukee’s water quality on July 21 at 8:30 am to 10:30 am, at the Great Hall, Wolfeboro Town Hall with speaker Don Kretchmer. Don Kretchmer is a Certified Lake Manager and Limnologist. How does the water quality compare to 10, 20 years ago? What is LWA doing to protect this precious resource? How can you help? The talk is free and the public is welcome. Morning pastries and coffee will be provided.
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Old 07-10-2018, 11:34 AM   #2
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Thanks. Will make a point to be there.
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Old 07-10-2018, 08:10 PM   #3
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These events have been great in the past, and the focus on milfoil this year is very important. I'll be there!
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Old 07-10-2018, 09:16 PM   #4
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Maybe someone could / should tape it and post it to YouTube......and post link here on forum.
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Old 07-10-2018, 10:47 PM   #5
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I hope someone provides a recap on this forum at least.
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Old 07-19-2018, 07:13 AM   #6
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The lake is under threat from cyanobacteria blooms, milfoil and other invasive plants and animals. Join the Lake Winnipesaukee Association for a discussion regarding the state of Winnipesaukee’s water quality on July 21 at 8:30 am to 10:30 am, at the Great Hall, Wolfeboro Town Hall with speaker Don Kretchmer. Don Kretchmer is a Certified Lake Manager and Limnologist. How does the water quality compare to 10, 20 years ago? What is LWA doing to protect this precious resource? How can you help? The talk is free and the public is welcome. Morning pastries and coffee will be provided.
How does water quality differ EVEN from last year?

I just boiled some water, and the strange odor is indescribable. A combination of hot metal and burning paint?

Is it the odor of burning/boiling cyanobacteria?

In the past year, has there been a change in the water, or have our recent tenants used some strange cleanser on the kettle or (electric) burner? A stainless steel pot produces somewhat less of the same odor.


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Old 07-19-2018, 08:48 AM   #7
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How does water quality differ EVEN from last year?

I just boiled some water, and the strange odor is indescribable. A combination of hot metal and burning paint?

Is it the odor of burning/boiling cyanobacteria?

In the past year, has there been a change in the water, or have our recent tenants used some strange cleanser on the kettle or (electric) burner? A stainless steel pot produces somewhat less of the same odor.


.
The lake is changing ... We have to deal with an odor when we don't use our place for a couple of week.... once we get all the water in the system changed over the smell disappears....

Unfortuantely as more houses, and Condos have been built, and lots clear cut, much more contaminated run off gets into the lake....

While I like to see efforts to try and clean up the lake.... I am afraid people have become concern to late.... While the lake will likely remain viable for recreation through my life time, I fear my children will see a significant degradation of the lake quality during theirs...

Many things need to change... fertilizers, decreased foliage on the water front etc. all play a factor....
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Old 07-19-2018, 06:30 PM   #8
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Default Most tests are good

From today's Laconia Daily Sun

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...a15240258.html
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Old 07-19-2018, 07:08 PM   #9
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Good thing they didn’t test water in the 60’s and 70’s!!!

Dan
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Old 07-19-2018, 07:30 PM   #10
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Good thing they didn’t test water in the 60’s and 70’s!!!

Dan
It is not like the Merrimack River. I remember the lake back then and it was a lot cleaner. Less muck and milfoil!!
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Old 07-19-2018, 07:52 PM   #11
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It's nice that "only" one beach had fecal bacteria, but with all due respect, that's a pretty low bar. From the general tone of the article, it sounds like the towns are trying to keep this information from the public--they first asked the state to skip the testing, then asked for it to be postponed until after July 4.

The article also noted that there are still remnants of a recent toxic cyanobacteria bloom. Left unsaid was the continuing threat of milfoil.

This stuff is serious, we need to be serious about it.
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Old 07-19-2018, 08:52 PM   #12
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If the problem is called by excrement from waterfowl, why not kill or chase them off?
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Old 07-19-2018, 09:34 PM   #13
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It is not like the Merrimack River. I remember the lake back then and it was a lot cleaner. Less muck and milfoil!!
Bull! The lake was disgusting back then! Over flowing leach field and raw sewage going right into the lake! The entire southern shore was like swimming in your toilet! The lake is a thousand times cleaner today than it was then!

Dan
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Old 07-19-2018, 10:31 PM   #14
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In fairness, KPW's reference point is the same as mine; Cow Island on the northern side of the lake. It was and is very clean. I worry about the long term affects of all the lawns that surround us now, that definitely wasn't the norm 40+ years ago.

There's no doubt the many sewage line projects on the southern side of the lake were a huge benefit for the long term health of the lake.
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Old 07-20-2018, 07:47 AM   #15
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In fairness, KPW's reference point is the same as mine; Cow Island on the northern side of the lake. It was and is very clean. I worry about the long term affects of all the lawns that surround us now, that definitely wasn't the norm 40+ years ago.

There's no doubt the many sewage line projects on the southern side of the lake were a huge benefit for the long term health of the lake.
Yes, these are two separate issues. As Dan points out, sewage treatment has been a great improvement.

But lawns, septic systems, and inadequste stormwater handling off of roads are driving up phosphorous all over the lake; and this phosphorous is driving the milfoil and cyanobacteria that threaten water quality today. I'm pretty sure Saturday's LWA presentation will cover this in detail
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Old 07-20-2018, 09:32 AM   #16
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Some may be surprised to learn that one of the biggest polluters of Winnipesaukee is the state itself.

The Powder Mill Fish Hatchery in New Durham, is at the head of the Merrymeeting River, right below the dam on Merrymeeting Lake. When the water leaves the lake, the phosphorus content is 4 ppb (parts per billion). This is a normal amount occurring naturally in most environments. The EPA recommended limit is 12 ppb to avoid algae blooms. When the water leaves the hatchery and enters the river, which flows into Alton Bay, the measurements have been as high as 120 ppb.

The fish poop and food residues result in almost pure fertilizer being dumped into the river, and eventually into Lake Winnipesaukee.
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Old 07-20-2018, 11:12 AM   #17
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Some may be surprised to learn that one of the biggest polluters of Winnipesaukee is the state itself.

The Powder Mill Fish Hatchery in New Durham, is at the head of the Merrymeeting River, right below the dam on Merrymeeting Lake. When the water leaves the lake, the phosphorus content is 4 ppb (parts per billion). This is a normal amount occurring naturally in most environments. The EPA recommended limit is 12 ppb to avoid algae blooms. When the water leaves the hatchery and enters the river, which flows into Alton Bay, the measurements have been as high as 120 ppb.

The fish poop and food residues result in almost pure fertilizer being dumped into the river, and eventually into Lake Winnipesaukee.
Ugh! What is the state's justification for permitting this situation to continue? What can be done to resolve it?
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Old 07-20-2018, 11:31 AM   #18
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Bull! The lake was disgusting back then! Over flowing leach field and raw sewage going right into the lake! The entire southern shore was like swimming in your toilet! The lake is a thousand times cleaner today than it was then!

Dan
Not sure where on the "entire southern shore" you were swimming, but I wasn't swimming in my toilet in Gilford.

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Old 07-21-2018, 07:35 AM   #19
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Exclamation Depends on Where You're Located...

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Bull! The lake was disgusting back then! Over flowing leach field and raw sewage going right into the lake! The entire southern shore was like swimming in your toilet! The lake is a thousand times cleaner today than it was then! Dan
I've got a 1950s map (a reprint of one from 1909). Except for Camp Wyanoke—established in 1909—it shows all the lake cottages, represented by black squares.

The 1909 map shows maybe four in "greater" Winter Harbor. (Just one on Wolfeboro Neck). Pre-WW2, that number may have quintupled. Today, only a few lots—of maybe two hundred—remain unbuilt.

Between Melvin Village and Wolfeboro, my family has been living here since the 1920s. None has remarked about a decline in water quality—but instead have stated, "Winter Harbor still has good water".

However, Winter Harbor's status quo has been upset since shallow Mirror Lake has recently developed blue-green algae toxicity, and drains into Lake Winnipesaukee. Should we be studying "The Basin", adjacent, as a microcosm of what can go wrong? Are the inhabitants also "city transplants" who require Phosphorus and Nitrogen for their green lawns? Are the required septic systems—copied from Massachusetts design, and sometimes "shared"—inadequate today?

'Course, Lake Winnipesaukee has been used for a century as an invisible depository/dump for unwanted items.

Using heavy rope, three of us were required to lift this item from the middle of Winter Harbor one week ago:



Wonder where such discarded wood (at "X's") could have come from?

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Old 07-21-2018, 07:58 AM   #20
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As long as the towns and state can procure millions through taxes for waterfront homes , over building and the destruction of our resources will continue. Every lake or pond with homes will eventually be destroyed from inhabitation.
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Old 07-21-2018, 11:55 AM   #21
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I went to this. Found it informative. The main theme was geared to phosphorus levels in the lake and trying to control them. The keys to reducing them are minimizing ground surface water runoff into the lake, utilization of non phosphorus fertilizers and minimizing erosion by leaving the land nearest the water undisturibed. Other contributors to phosphorus levels are the geese and ducks which love to hang around on lush lawns and poop = phosphorus. They focused on several basins that feed the lake like up in moultonboro and the merrymeeting river which have high concentrations of phosphorus that impact the lake. One thing I thought was interesting is that lake has 5 year water intake span meaning water that comes into the lake today takes 5 years to exit the lake so the effects of what we do now take that long to see. The goal is to keep phosphorus levels below 8 parts per billion. Looking at the various graphs they showed the lake on average is just below that with some areas above it. Interesting also was that broads are very close to 8. The cyannobacteria love phosphorus and love hot water. I never thought much about it but looking at towns on the lake, like wolfeboro, most of the catch basins and drains that catch rainwater runoff deposit right into the lake so phosphorus levels rise when it rains. So much to remember here. My takeaways here are that this is a small group of folks taking on a massive project for the good. I think the state does a poor job aiding the goal. They could easily increase the number of trees required to be left on waterfront property which would reduce erosion and they could require stores in towns with waterfront land to offer no phosphorus fertilizers. I do give LWA a good thumbs up for holding seminars to educate landscaping company's on the harmful effects of fertilizers and removal of vegetation in buffer zones. We all do need to be mindful of phosphorus because as it increases so does the bad algae, cyannobacteria, and when that's out of control its a health hazard and there is a direct relation to that and decreased property values.
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Old 08-03-2018, 05:44 AM   #22
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Ugh! What is the state's justification for permitting this situation to continue? What can be done to resolve it?
A news report today says the state is being sued by a conservation group to correct this situation of fishery discharges, asserting it violates clean water laws.
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Old 08-03-2018, 05:51 AM   #23
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A news report today says the state is being sued by a conservation group to correct this situation of fishery discharges, asserting it violates clean water laws.


That great news. Where was it reported?


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Old 08-03-2018, 06:17 AM   #24
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That great news. Where was it reported?


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WMUR news report this morning.
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Old 08-03-2018, 06:19 AM   #25
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WMUR news report this morning.


Thank you I’ll check the website and try to post the link.


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Old 08-03-2018, 07:03 AM   #26
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Default Link to Water Quality presentation

The presentation from the 7/21 seminar is online at http://www.winnipesaukee.org/wp-cont...ty-7-21-18.pdf

You can also see the water quality measurements at http://winnipesaukeegateway.org/moni...ing-sites-map/

As a water tester for 7 years, my opinion is that the water quality is improving. Some of that is due to dry weather, but I think public education and shoreline protection laws are slowly having an impact.
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Old 08-03-2018, 07:01 PM   #27
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The presentation from the 7/21 seminar is online at http://www.winnipesaukee.org/wp-cont...ty-7-21-18.pdf

You can also see the water quality measurements at http://winnipesaukeegateway.org/moni...ing-sites-map/

As a water tester for 7 years, my opinion is that the water quality is improving. Some of that is due to dry weather, but I think public education and shoreline protection laws are slowly having an impact.
While I am mindful that tampering with nature has it pitfalls, I have to ask: is there anything that can be added to the Lake, perhaps at the source, that can combat the negative mentioned throughout the posts?
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Old 08-03-2018, 08:54 PM   #28
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While I am mindful that tampering with nature has it pitfalls, I have to ask: is there anything that can be added to the Lake, perhaps at the source, that can combat the negative mentioned throughout the posts?
Even if the chemistry was available, the problem is too vast for chemical treatment. The issues identified are largely driven by phosphorous and nitrogen flowing into the lake from over a thousand locations. Basically, the lake is the bottom of a bowl, and all the phosphorous and nitrogen coming down the sides of the bowl land in Winni. The phosphorous is naturally occurring, but development increases phosphorous flow by up to 10X. Fertilizer, septic, rainwater from roadways, houses, and lack of plants near shoreline all play a role.

The good news though is that the lake turns over 20% of its water each year. If we can reduce the phosphorous flow into the lake by mitigating the problems above, the flushing of the lake will bring our count down over time.

The primary goal of the Lake Winnipesaukee Association is to identify all of these sources of phosphorous and identify action plans to mitigate the flow.
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Old 08-04-2018, 12:20 PM   #29
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http://www.nhpr.org/post/fish-game-m...state-hatchery
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Old 08-06-2018, 08:15 AM   #30
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The presentation from the 7/21 seminar is online at http://www.winnipesaukee.org/wp-cont...ty-7-21-18.pdf

You can also see the water quality measurements at http://winnipesaukeegateway.org/moni...ing-sites-map/

As a water tester for 7 years, my opinion is that the water quality is improving. Some of that is due to dry weather, but I think public education and shoreline protection laws are slowly having an impact.
Were you testing yesterday—Sunday, August 5th, 2018?

Off my dock, normally, I could see a penny on the bottom in ten feet of water. Yesterday, even with a reduced lake, I couldn't see any features on the bottom!

While out sailing, I saw the perfect icon for Lake Winnipesaukee's erosion problem. It is a three-foot diameter tree sitting on a small rock at water level. It couldn't have possibly grown from under the water's surface. This entire shoreline, including mine, is creeping into the lake!

Erosion is a fact, and the cause is Winnipesaukee's over-sized boats.

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Old 08-07-2018, 08:01 AM   #31
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Erosion is a fact, and the cause is Winnipesaukee's over-sized boats.

.
Half of this statement is correct.
-Erosion is a fact. That's the correct part
-Erosion is caused by boats. That's the incorrect part. Erosion has several causes, including boats, wind, storms, and humans removing vegetation along shore lines.
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Old 08-07-2018, 08:17 AM   #32
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Were you testing yesterday—Sunday, August 5th, 2018?

Off my dock, normally, I could see a penny on the bottom in ten feet of water. Yesterday, even with a reduced lake, I couldn't see any features on the bottom!

While out sailing, I saw the perfect icon for Lake Winnipesaukee's erosion problem. It is a three-foot diameter tree sitting on a small rock at water level. It couldn't have possibly grown from under the water's surface. This entire shoreline, including mine, is creeping into the lake!

Erosion is a fact, and the cause is Winnipesaukee's over-sized boats.

.
I have seen the same type of erosion near my home in areas where the shoreline vegetation suffers from wave erosion with none of the other causes of erosion present.
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Old 08-08-2018, 01:38 AM   #33
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Default Water Testing in 60's and 70's

I lived on Pitchwood Island the summer of '77 while Life guarding at the Weirs. I would give a sample of the water we pulled from just off the island to the State guys testing the Weirs Beach water. The results were always clean. In fact, one of the guys told me the water was cleaner than the Boston area's drinking water. Take it for what it's worth.
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Old 08-08-2018, 06:26 PM   #34
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I lived on Pitchwood Island the summer of '77 while Life guarding at the Weirs. I would give a sample of the water we pulled from just off the island to the State guys testing the Weirs Beach water. The results were always clean. In fact, one of the guys told me the water was cleaner than the Boston area's drinking water. Take it for what it's worth.
The 70s was the start of a lake wide building-boom that featured what we later called "McMansions", with the attendant removal of trees. Most were selected for lumber, trees that had been shedding pine needles to hold the soil.

Some McMansions are just disguised B&Bs, luring seasonal renters ignorant both of Lake Winnipesaukee's boating rules and its "Golden Pond" aura.

Fireworks "to celebrate Weekends" partially illustrate this ignorance.

As boats increase in size above 22-feet, wake action undermines the shoreline, sliding 100-foot trees to shoreline edges—while upright!

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Half of this statement is correct.
-Erosion is a fact. That's the correct part
-Erosion is caused by boats. That's the incorrect part. Erosion has several causes, including boats, wind, storms, and humans removing vegetation along shore lines.
What's incorrect is an improper quote. What was written by me—prior:

Quote:
Erosion is a fact, and the cause is Winnipesaukee's over-sized boats.
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Old 08-09-2018, 08:04 AM   #35
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What's incorrect is an improper quote. What was written by me—prior:
.
My point stands. While I agree that erosion is a fact, I disagree on your point that it is solely caused by "over-sized boats".
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Old 08-09-2018, 08:18 AM   #36
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Question A Sapling Grows Under Water?

Explain how this phenomenon exists, with the lake at an August "low":
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Old 08-09-2018, 08:42 AM   #37
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Default .... making rip-rap with concrete paper bags?

To stop that erosion problemo, go get some el cheapo 70-lb paper bags with concrete mix, (sand-cement-gravel) for about $3/bag, and align them along the shoreline there under the water.

The water soaks through the paper, the concrete will set up under the water, harden into solid concrete weighing maybe 250-lbs/bag, and will protect the shoreline. Just load up an old rowboat with dry concrete bags, and set them along the shoreline, underwater ..... easy-peasy!

This actually does work very good and concrete like this will last under water for 100 years or more.
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Old 08-09-2018, 08:52 AM   #38
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To stop that erosion problemo, go get some el cheapo 70-lb paper bags with concrete mix, (sand-cement-gravel) for about $3/bag, and align them along the shoreline there under the water.

The water soaks through the paper, the concrete will set up under the water, harden into solid concrete weighing maybe 250-lbs/bag, and will protect the shoreline. Just load up an old rowboat with dry concrete bags, and set them along the shoreline, underwater ..... easy-peasy!

This actually does work very good and concrete like this will last under water for 100 years or more.
Lol, you weren't supposed to write that down Less, you just invited an Environmental visit to your waterfront.
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Old 08-09-2018, 08:54 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by fatlazyless View Post
To stop that erosion problemo, go get some el cheapo 70-lb paper bags with concrete mix, (sand-cement-gravel) for about $3/bag, and align them along the shoreline there under the water.

The water soaks through the paper, the concrete will set up under the water, harden into solid concrete weighing maybe 250-lbs/bag, and will protect the shoreline. Just load up an old rowboat with dry concrete bags, and set them along the shoreline, underwater ..... easy-peasy!

This actually does work very good and concrete like this will last under water for 100 years or more.
Even though it's illegal to put anything like that in the water without a permit?
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Old 08-09-2018, 09:05 AM   #40
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This is what people over in Maine do. Maine is loaded with small ponds, rivers and big lakes. Some of those small ponds are simply a stream that got dammed up, 200-years ago, by building a rip-rap, home made dam, using paper bags of concrete mix piled up, interlocking style, to make a dam.

Back in 1818, they maybe were using cotton bags filled with sand-cement-gravel.

Here in 2018, you use the 70-lb concrete paper bags.

As already mentioned, it works great, with the water soaking thru the heavy paper bag, and the concrete mix sets up in place, under the water.

So, how many 70-lb bags of dry concrete can be loaded into a 12' rowboat before it sinks?

Quikrete really stumbled onto something when it designed the heavy paper bags because the heavy brown paper allows water to permeate through, but stops the sand, gravel and grey powdered cement, all mixed together, from permeating or osmosifying out into the lake water. You just plop the heavy bag into the lake, and 24-hours later it will be a solid block of concrete within a paper bag that tightly hugs whatever is below it ..... pretty danged good.
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Old 08-09-2018, 09:24 AM   #41
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The 70s was the start of a lake wide building-boom that featured what we later called "McMansions", with the attendant removal of trees. Most were selected for lumber, trees that had been shedding pine needles to hold the soil.

Some McMansions are just disguised B&Bs, luring seasonal renters ignorant both of Lake Winnipesaukee's boating rules and its "Golden Pond" aura.

Fireworks "to celebrate Weekends" partially illustrate this ignorance.

As boats increase in size above 22-feet, wake action undermines the shoreline, sliding 100-foot trees to shoreline edges—while upright!


What's incorrect is an improper quote. What was written by me—prior:



.
You're the king of misquotes. Ironic that you take offense when it happens to you.

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Old 08-25-2018, 07:56 PM   #42
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Question Maybe The Quote Referred To?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chipj29 View Post
Half of this statement is correct.
-Erosion is a fact. That's the correct part
-Erosion is caused by boats. That's the incorrect part. Erosion has several causes, including
boats, wind, storms, and humans removing vegetation
along shore lines.
This shoreline (pictured below) is still undeveloped. While no vegetation is being removed directly by humans, this shoreline displays erosion of the soil, and tree loss. This shore has recently become eligible for breakwater approvals. Why now?

Until recently, we had not seen boatlifts being installed along all Winter Harbor's shorelines. Even breakwaters seemed like an extreme answer within this quiet backwater.

However, breakwaters started appearing a couple of decades ago on The Broads exposures of Lake Winnipesaukee's peninsulas, islands and necks.

We have windstorms towards our shore, but our dock stays dry. It is only when weekend boating occurs that our dock (and items on it) gets wet. (Wet, like today, with the usual over-sized boat crowd having entered Winter Harbor).

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