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Old 01-05-2022, 09:24 PM   #1
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Default Ice Damming?

Had leaking at the eaves of my roof today for the first time-- at least 2" of ice on the roof near the edge. Cleared the roof and it resolved. Never had it before-- odd day/ weather conditions, similar experiences? Roof issues? Interested in comments.
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Old 01-05-2022, 09:30 PM   #2
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I didnít have leaks but last week I noticed a lot of build up. Hadnít used roof rake at all. Last Saturday with the warmth and rain I got them all off.
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Old 01-05-2022, 09:32 PM   #3
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It has been one of those seasons.

Cold, warm, snow, rain...
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Old 01-06-2022, 05:19 AM   #4
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For serious and determined roof snow removal, the all aluminum roof rake with an aluminum blade stands up better than the plastic blade. All aluminum roof rakes cost a little more and can be difficult to find at local stores. Aluminum blades are tougher than plastic and work a little better for pounding on that ice build-up.

Hey there buddy, just get out the H out there and go pound on that roof ice with yo new, all aluminum roof rake .... yo! .....

For about $45, shipping included from New Jersey, Ebay has or had some all aluminum, Snow-Joe brand, adjustable out to 21' length. Straight out of New Jersey, it's the same exact roof rake that Tony Soprano use to use on his New Jersey luxury roof ....... God bless Tony and his roof rake ..... yeah!

Need to rake it off the eaves before it becomes an ice dam. Need to rake it off a flat roof before it weighs too much. ....

Need to be VERY aware of overhead power lines. .... or you'll be visiting with Tony Soprano ......
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Old 01-06-2022, 08:35 AM   #5
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And it is a great way to damage your roof...

Hey more shingle sales for me.
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Old 01-06-2022, 08:54 AM   #6
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Default What damages roof

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And it is a great way to damage your roof...

Hey more shingle sales for me.
What is the great way to damage your roof? Using a roof rake? Ice dames can damage a roof, sheathing and interior of home.
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Old 01-06-2022, 07:07 PM   #7
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You never use a roof rake or shovel to chisel at an ice dam.
A roof rake is used to remove loose material... even the shovels we sell for this purpose do not have the metal leading edges on them.

Sharp aluminum will also have a tendency to cut or gouge out more of the granular surface of the asphalt shingles.

And only a foam pad rake... like the ones we sell to clean off a vehicle should be used on a metal roof or eaves should the homeowner wish to lighten the load against them. Dinging a metal roof would damage the protective architectural coating resulting in increased snow/ice adhesion and rusting.

Ice dams are removed by professionals with steamers. By non-professional with the appropriate snow melt used in the appropriate manner that results in channels that allow for the melted salty water to run off the eaves rather than refreeze as temps fall or work up under the shingles.
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Old 01-06-2022, 08:43 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dad207 View Post
Had leaking at the eaves of my roof today for the first time-- at least 2" of ice on the roof near the edge. Cleared the roof and it resolved. Never had it before-- odd day/ weather conditions, similar experiences? Roof issues? Interested in comments.
Lamb & Richie - Saugus, MA still maufactures the
Aluminum Ice Panel Mill Finish, 32"W x 36"H panels.
LINK

When I did my roof I put these on. In addition to ice and water shield membrane. Been many decades now with no issues.
I visited the Lamb & Richie factory in Saugus, MA before doing roof. Had all explained to me by one of the nice employees. Showed me the machine that makes the product. Showed the tool needed for crimping. Showed me how to put on roof. The Lamb & Ritchie aluminum panels were sold at Gerrity Lumber in Meredith at that time. I used ice and water membrane, quality asphalt shinges, and the aluminum panels.

Take a look at some of the old farmhouses and one will see these panels at bottom of roof. Those old timers way back knew how to do a proper roof.

If I were doing a roof today. I would use the Lamb & Richie aluminum panels AND the ice and water shield. Yes, it is redundant. But I have had zero water leaks or ice dams for decades now.

And yes, one could go all metal to accomplish the same thing.
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Old 01-06-2022, 09:00 PM   #9
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Itís called a snow belt. Works well had them in Mass on my last home


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Old 01-06-2022, 09:55 PM   #10
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We still sell them. The Gerrity Family sold the property a couple years ago, and that is when they rebuilt the property into its current configuration.

Never use a regular roof rake on those either. Though there is no finish to damage, the design is inherent to making the snow release easier. They work best with homes that use gable vents.
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Old 01-07-2022, 12:58 PM   #11
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Hey...... ya know, I actually have those aluminum panels, about 36" length going up the sloping shingled roof, installed by the previous owner on the one side of the roof where it is most definitely needed. And for about $20 there's a gallon of aluminum restoration paint for a new do in the summer. And the aluminum panels can take a good beating probably much better than asphalt shingles ..... whack-whack-whack! .... .... so's don't listen to Mercier .... just get the H out there and go beat that roof!

After breaking about five different plastic roof rakes over the years, I got smart and got me an all-aluminum roof rake from New Jersey, home of the TOUGH roof rake! ....

From New Jersey to New Hampshire, this aluminum roof rake is for you! ....
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Old 01-07-2022, 01:03 PM   #12
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While there are weather sequences, like snow-rain-cold, that can lead to ice formation at the eaves, a great deal of ice formation there is due to house construction issues resulting in heat leakage into the attic or insulated cavities in the case of cathedral ceilings. Everyone likely has noticed cases of ice dams and arrays of icicles hanging down on a house, while an unoccupied/unheated garage or other structure nearby holds the snow on the roof much longer, with little or no ice at the eaves.

In new house construction, roof ice issues can largely be avoided by establishing a continuous air barrier at least at the upper level, to eliminate totally having interior air leaking up and getting at the underside of the roof deck. Common leakage points are wiring holes in top plates, can lights in the ceiling, and attic access hatch openings.

In existing construction, a lot of such leaks can be closed off by a thorough effort at uncovering insulation to expose wiring penetrations and sealing them with can foam. Can lights can be replaced with shallow LED fixtures, sealed properly. Attic hatchways can be improved by better gasketing or by covering with after-the-fact kits designed to insulate and air-seal, such as this one:https://www.amazon.com/Attic-Stairwa...a-823482421655
(I have no idea how good that one is; it's just one of many to be found by searching on "attic hatchway insulation kit.").

Cathedral ceilings, too, can be problematic, but there are designs that work well. A good source of information can be found here: https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com...hedral+ceiling
although many of those articles are behind a pay wall. Another good source is here: https://www.buildingscience.com/docu...of-design/view
That site has other good articles on the subject.
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Old 01-07-2022, 03:51 PM   #13
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The aluminum roof rake with plastic rollers keeps the metal scrapper off roof shingles.

Made by Garelick now owned by USA Handy Tools Plymouth Michigan.

LINK

Can be purchased at local ACE Hardware.

LINK
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Old 01-07-2022, 04:04 PM   #14
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I use one. Does a terrific job clearing snow. Also, you can turn it on its side and slaw down on a ice dam without it breaking!


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Old 01-07-2022, 07:16 PM   #15
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I don't mind selling more shingles.
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Old 01-08-2022, 11:24 AM   #16
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There is also the Avalanche Rake. A bit pricey, but it is far quicker and easier to use than a regular roof rake because you don't have to lift it off the roof anywhere near as often.
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Old 01-08-2022, 02:39 PM   #17
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The Avalanche or even the one that TheProfessor linked With the roller wheels is best... in that they protect the shingles from having the granules scraped off.

The real damage gets done when you either slam down on the ice dams to break them up, or accidentally get the aluminum edge to cut into the asphalt shingles; at that point you are into the substrate.
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Old 01-09-2022, 08:03 AM   #18
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..... Dam ice! .....
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Old 01-09-2022, 12:23 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Mercier View Post
The real damage gets done when you either slam down on the ice dams to break them up, or accidentally get the aluminum edge to cut into the asphalt shingles; at that point you are into the substrate.
Excellent advice.

Too many do DO damage to roof shingles with improper use of roof rake.

The roof raking should be done immediately after storm. And to make sure that the rollers are working properly.
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Old 01-09-2022, 06:13 PM   #20
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In our current climate, it will not matter if the homeowner thinks that they will just simply replace the shingles... regardless of how much money they think they have... they may not be able to get the shingles in any reasonable amount of time.
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Old 01-18-2022, 05:31 PM   #21
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I always felt that having gutters on the house contributes to forming an Ice dam, I have just one 12ft length section on my house with a gutter that helps in the spring, summer and fall. Come November 1, I am able to remove and have yet to have ice dam problems.
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Old 01-18-2022, 06:30 PM   #22
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Not necessarily dams, but water damage can occur when the snow is so deep and soaks up rain, that the weight bends the rafters separating joints. Time to shovel, not just rake the eaves. Hire somebody. If he falls, he collects worker's comp for a few months and is back to work. If you fall, you have to live with "What were you thinking?" for years to come.
Depending on conditions, I sometimes throw salt tabs on the roof. They're intended for this use and look like a hockey puck. Most of my roofing is pretty steep-cape style. Even so, last replacement we doubled up on the Bituthane/ice and water shield. I think most roofers nowadays do that automatically, but I've been here over 45 years, so some sectionms and some other buildings are part of a rotation.
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Old 01-18-2022, 07:51 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheProfessor View Post
The roof raking should be done immediately after storm.
You're right, of course, but I find this very difficult logistically. First priority is the driveway, then steps and sidewalks, then take a good long rest. It can be days before I have the ambition to tackle the roof. I'm remembering that huge storm in December 2020 . . .
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Old 01-18-2022, 08:44 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Descant View Post
Not necessarily dams, but water damage can occur when the snow is so deep and soaks up rain, that the weight bends the rafters separating joints. Time to shovel, not just rake the eaves. Hire somebody. If he falls, he collects worker's comp for a few months and is back to work. If you fall, you have to live with "What were you thinking?" for years to come.
Depending on conditions, I sometimes throw salt tabs on the roof. They're intended for this use and look like a hockey puck. Most of my roofing is pretty steep-cape style. Even so, last replacement we doubled up on the Bituthane/ice and water shield. I think most roofers nowadays do that automatically, but I've been here over 45 years, so some sectionms and some other buildings are part of a rotation.
The hockey pucks can cause ''ponding'' so they have to be watched to make sure the water has an exist to the eaves and not just absorption into the snow below them. Steep roofs handle that better.
The problem with over using the ice & water at more than the heat transfer points is the possibility of limiting water vapor. The ice & water doesn't ''breathe'' well.

Before I went to a metal roof, I used an old roof rake with a cup secured to the end. That way I could sprinkle the calcium chloride flakes - same material as the hockey puck - into a vertical pathway that would allow the snow to melt and the water to have an outlet to the eave.
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Old 01-18-2022, 08:53 PM   #25
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Quote:
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You're right, of course, but I find this very difficult logistically. First priority is the driveway, then steps and sidewalks, then take a good long rest. It can be days before I have the ambition to tackle the roof. I'm remembering that huge storm in December 2020 . . .
Unless it is built up... you only need to go to the heat transition point where that vertical wall sits under the roof.
The idea is to let the dark surface of the shingle absorb heat and cause the snow to melt at the edge... the water will then run down to the eave and off.

If you decide to clean the whole roof as far as you can reach... usually that Avalanche roof rake will make it easier on the shoulders.
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Old 01-20-2022, 05:05 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Mercier View Post
you only need to go to the heat transition point where that vertical wall sits under the roof.

JM

I've hear this before and it's great advice but I've never known where that Transition point is. Is there a way to tell or a rule of thumb (i.e. 1 foot up)?
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Old 01-20-2022, 06:23 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Mercier View Post
Unless it is built up... you only need to go to the heat transition point where that vertical wall sits under the roof.
The idea is to let the dark surface of the shingle absorb heat and cause the snow to melt at the edge... the water will then run down to the eave and off.

If you decide to clean the whole roof as far as you can reach... usually that Avalanche roof rake will make it easier on the shoulders.
In other words, only the edge of the roof is urgent. Probably so, but when there's two feet of snow up there that's another story . . . I saw some cheaper knockoffs of the Avalanche roof rake online. They certainly look much easier than conventional rakes. By the way, I use snow shoes to pack a path around the whole house in order to clean the roof and so folks can get to the electric meter and the oil pipe.

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Old 01-20-2022, 10:01 PM   #28
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When you get lots of snow, or heavy snow due to saturation, it general has a greater risk than ice dams.
Even a roof that is not forming ice dams would need that removed.
That can be quite a bit of effort with the average roof rake...
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Old 01-20-2022, 10:05 PM   #29
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Quote:
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JM

I've hear this before and it's great advice but I've never known where that Transition point is. Is there a way to tell or a rule of thumb (i.e. 1 foot up)?
Various with the eave depth; but it is basically were an exterior wall meets the rafters.

I have very deep eaves, so my transition point is about three feet up the roof... but over my three season porch, the transition point is actually at a parallel to that roof and sometime would cause problems in the valleys.

The metal roof gets rid of much of that for me, but the valleys always seem to form ice regardless due to that transition point.
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Old 01-24-2022, 06:05 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Mercier View Post
Unless it is built up... you only need to go to the heat transition point where that vertical wall sits under the roof.
The idea is to let the dark surface of the shingle absorb heat and cause the snow to melt at the edge... the water will then run down to the eave and off.

If you decide to clean the whole roof as far as you can reach... usually that Avalanche roof rake will make it easier on the shoulders.
Get a metal roof installed. No more problems. We had aluminum installed at the edge of our asphalt shingles which worked. Metal roof solves everything.
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Old 01-24-2022, 08:06 PM   #31
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I have a metal roof and I sell them.
They do not solve everything.

Metal roofs require heat to melt the contact snow enough to lower to coefficient of friction. Once they do, they release all at once. That wet snow hits the ground/decks and forms cement.

The can also form ice at the peak as warm air moves up through the eave vents and begins to melt the snow covering the ridge vent, then refreezing overnight.

You get use to the details, but have to adapt for other aspects.
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Old 01-25-2022, 03:22 PM   #32
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thats absolutetly correct they dont solve everything in fact i think they can cause more problems than there worth and like most things in life after the circle comes around folks will realize the good old asphalt shingle will be here. like John said when the snow hits the ground its turns into a hard cement like material that youre not going to simply shovel or snow blow away. they have there places like commercial buildings. if you have nice landscaping or nice deck railings kiss that all good bye when your snow and ice slide off your metal roof. stick with architecuals shingles and good ventilation.
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Old 01-25-2022, 07:27 PM   #33
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I have metal.
But I have found ways to deal with the facts of that roof-type.

Each material has positive and negatives... they just need to be understood.
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Old 01-25-2022, 07:35 PM   #34
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Remember as a youth not walking along side the house. Slate shingles on a triple decker was frightening


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Old 02-01-2022, 09:13 PM   #35
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Remember as a youth not walking along side the house. Slate shingles on a triple decker was frightening


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Yes, it reminds me of the Guillotine.

Never had to worry about that with asphalt shingles.
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