Go Back   Winnipesaukee Forum > Lake Issues > General Issues
Home Forums Gallery YouTube Channel Classifieds Links Blogs Calendar Register FAQDonate Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-14-2010, 07:33 AM   #1
Skip
Senior Member
 
Skip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Dover, NH
Posts: 1,582
Thanks: 226
Thanked 492 Times in 165 Posts
Post Blizzard in the news again

More hearings and appeals ahead regarding the State's decision and upholding of the suspension of Blizzard's boating privileges.

Apparently this too will be headed to Superior Court for a final decision.

Article can be read HERE in today's on-line Citizen.
Skip is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Skip For This Useful Post:
Skipper of the Sea Que (08-14-2010)
Old 08-14-2010, 07:56 AM   #2
MarkinNH
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 392
Thanks: 177
Thanked 146 Times in 76 Posts
Default

Who cares ? She's old news.
MarkinNH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2010, 08:04 AM   #3
Skip
Senior Member
 
Skip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Dover, NH
Posts: 1,582
Thanks: 226
Thanked 492 Times in 165 Posts
Thumbs up Significant case law & precedent at stake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkinNH View Post
Who cares ? She's old news.
Actually I find this particular aspect of the case interesting and very pertinent.

This issue could set precedent regarding the State's ability to indeed suspend or revoke a boating certificate issued by the State, and hence suspend a boat operator's privileges.

This would be very significant case law covering anyone who boats in New Hampshire.

So yes, count me as one "who cares".

Last edited by Skip; 08-14-2010 at 08:14 AM. Reason: maple syrup on my fingers...spellin' fix!
Skip is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Skip For This Useful Post:
Meredith lady (08-15-2010)
Old 08-14-2010, 08:06 AM   #4
Jonas Pilot
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Wolfeboro, New Hampshire is my home, 24-7-365
Posts: 1,686
Thanks: 1,047
Thanked 336 Times in 189 Posts
Default

Thanks for sharing Skip.
Jonas Pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Jonas Pilot For This Useful Post:
ApS (08-15-2010), Skip (08-14-2010)
Old 08-14-2010, 09:22 AM   #5
hazelnut
Senior Member
 
hazelnut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,348
Thanks: 503
Thanked 461 Times in 161 Posts
Thumbs down

Count me in as disappointed in the dredging up of this topic.

I'm sorry but Skip I usually agree with you in many circumstances but after your last diatribe calling for forum civility why on earth would you post this? I believe that people who care about this subject enough will follow it on their own. We don't need constant reminders. This is a highly controversial subject that has caused many arguments on this forum.
hazelnut is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to hazelnut For This Useful Post:
Martha Marlee (08-17-2010), OCDACTIVE (08-16-2010), PC31 (08-14-2010), Resident 2B (08-14-2010), Shreddy (08-16-2010), XCR-700 (08-14-2010)
Sponsored Links
Old 08-14-2010, 10:39 AM   #6
John A. Birdsall
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Norwich, CT
Posts: 599
Thanks: 27
Thanked 51 Times in 35 Posts
Default violators

I am not referring to the Blizzard case, but to the people that operated there boat at 100 MPH last weekend.

I would think that since the state(s) have points on drivers license that they would put points on boating certificates (and they should be seperate issues) and after a determined amount of points they loose there right to operate on NH waters. But those that are flagrently violating the speed limit they should have there rights to operate suspended on the spot, and there boat confinscated by the state. I am not saying that the state keep there boat, but rather the MP's take it to Marine Patrol Headquarters, hauled out of the water, and stored at owners expense until they come and pick it up. All at the owners expense.

Maybe after a couple of times this being done and publicised on the lake people would take the law seriously.
John A. Birdsall is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to John A. Birdsall For This Useful Post:
sunset on the dock (08-19-2010)
Old 08-14-2010, 11:30 AM   #7
fatlazyless
Senior Member
 
fatlazyless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 5,531
Thanks: 178
Thanked 375 Times in 274 Posts
Default

As I understand, her state privilege to pilot a boat was revoked by the Marine Patrol for three years. It's my interpretation of the ruling that this does not include non-motor boats like, don't-ya-know-it, a KAYAK, so all is not lost for poor Erika because while motorboating is now a three year no-no......she can still hit the Winnipesaukee waters in a kayak!

Attn Erika: the friendly people at Irwin Marine in Laconia have many many kayaks, all set out on their parking lot for a great big weekend price reduction sail-a-bration....going on today and tomorrow. Good time to be think'n Old Town Kayak what with its' inherent no license-no gasoline-no registration-and apparently no loss of personal use directed individually to you! It's just you and a paddle!

a keep-a, keep-a, keep-a on paddl'n!



Who knows, maybe she'll discover the simple fun and exercise of kayaking, and lose the need for twin 650-hp inboard-outboards powering up a 32' luxury Formula boat?
__________________
Down & out, livn that Walmart side of the lake!
fatlazyless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2010, 12:15 PM   #8
Waterbaby
Senior Member
 
Waterbaby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kensington, NH and Paugus Bay Marina
Posts: 654
Thanks: 218
Thanked 16 Times in 12 Posts
Thumbs up Ditto!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skip View Post
Actually I find this particular aspect of the case interesting and very pertinent.

This issue could set precedent regarding the State's ability to indeed suspend or revoke a boating certificate issued by the State, and hence suspend a boat operator's privileges.

This would be very significant case law covering anyone who boats in New Hampshire.

So yes, count me as one "who cares".
I couldn't have said it better myself! Thanks, Skip.
__________________
On the boat is always waterfront!
Waterbaby is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Waterbaby For This Useful Post:
Skip (08-14-2010)
Old 08-14-2010, 12:57 PM   #9
Bear Islander
Senior Member
 
Bear Islander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Bear Island
Posts: 1,649
Thanks: 21
Thanked 336 Times in 159 Posts
Default

Personally I wonder why people feel the need to post that they are not interested in a thread. Every day I skip over dozens of threads because I am not interested in the topic. It's like reading a magazine or newspapers, if the subject doesn't interest you, move on.

Obviously the member that starts a thread thinks it is worth posting. And if even one person gives a reply then they were correct.

Posting you are not interested in the topic is just plain rude.
Bear Islander is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 13 Users Say Thank You to Bear Islander For This Useful Post:
ApS (08-15-2010), Bear Island South (08-14-2010), Harborist (08-17-2010), ironhorsetim (08-17-2010), Jmo77011 (08-15-2010), Jonas Pilot (08-14-2010), Meredith lady (08-21-2010), Mink Islander (08-30-2010), Rattlesnake Gal (08-16-2010), Rattlesnake Guy (08-16-2010), secondcurve (08-15-2010), Skip (08-14-2010), VtSteve (08-19-2010)
Old 08-14-2010, 01:06 PM   #10
SAMIAM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Moultonborough
Posts: 2,259
Thanks: 123
Thanked 843 Times in 311 Posts
Default

Really getting tired of people ponding on her.
SAMIAM is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to SAMIAM For This Useful Post:
NoBozo (08-14-2010)
Old 08-14-2010, 01:58 PM   #11
sky_nh
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Gilford
Posts: 76
Thanks: 4
Thanked 15 Times in 5 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SAMIAM View Post
Really getting tired of people ponding on her.
Perhaps if there had been at least the appearance of justice, more people would not be "ponding" (sic) on Blizzard. To many people, myself included, it appears like another case of "the best justice that money can buy." It worked for O.J. and it's working for her.

-- Sky
sky_nh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2010, 02:21 PM   #12
Skip
Senior Member
 
Skip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Dover, NH
Posts: 1,582
Thanks: 226
Thanked 492 Times in 165 Posts
Post Further clarification...

Obviously this is not "old news".

There have been many posts on this site, in various threads, where the subject debated was whether or not a lifetime boter safety certificate could be revoked by the State for just cause.

Some folks here agreed, and others were adamant in their belief that a lifetime safety certificate could not be revoked.

This is the first case that has arisen, that I am aware of, that the State has revoked a certificate.

Now that the hearing on that particular matter has been held, and the State prevailed at the first level of appeal, it appears a further ruling will be requested at the Superior court level.

Depending on that outcome a final appeal could go as high as the State Supreme Court.

This is precedent setting news. If the State prevails then look for them to start revoking certificates on a regular basis for just cause.


If the State loses, look for additional legislation to be filed in the future to strengthen the State's position that it can revoke certificates.

Either way it will have far reaching implications for all boaters on all bodies of water in the State. Because of its wide ranging implications and the fact that it is a complicated legal matter I posted it here in the general forum for the widest audience reach. If Don feels it is more appropriate in the boating forum, or he feels this thread is inappropriate I am sure he will take the appropriate action.

As a final note I offer no opinion whatsoever on the original case or person it pertainsd to. I should have then, and will respectively ask now, that comments in regards to this issue be about this issue, and not the personalities or other aspects of the case.

The ability to revoke or suspend the boaters certificate for cause, which results in the loss of your ability to operate a boat, is a very powerful tool of Government. As such it behooves all of us that boat to watch this particular aspect closely and understand its implications as it winds through the Court system!
Skip is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Skip For This Useful Post:
Heaven (08-14-2010), ironhorsetim (08-17-2010), KBoater (08-14-2010), robmac (08-14-2010), Ropetow (08-14-2010)
Old 08-14-2010, 06:47 PM   #13
tis
Senior Member
 
tis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,032
Thanks: 369
Thanked 629 Times in 433 Posts
Default

I think it is relevant in that we were told we were getting a Safety Certification not a license. My understanding was that if you pass the course you have the certificate and it means nothing more than you have passed. So how can they take it away? Course taken, passed, the end.
tis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2010, 06:56 PM   #14
robmac
Senior Member
 
robmac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Nashua,Meredith
Posts: 915
Thanks: 195
Thanked 95 Times in 71 Posts
Default

Skip I hope can correct me if I am wrong Tis but,the certificate much like a drivers license you are tested and is a privilege not a right. Having been found in violation that right can be taken away. I think this can and will be a very big legal issue to be settled by the courts. JMHO.
robmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2010, 07:08 PM   #15
Skip
Senior Member
 
Skip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Dover, NH
Posts: 1,582
Thanks: 226
Thanked 492 Times in 165 Posts
Post Rsa 270-d:13

Quote:
Originally Posted by robmac View Post
Skip I hope can correct me if I am wrong Tis but,the certificate much like a drivers license you are tested and is a privilege not a right. Having been found in violation that right can be taken away. I think this can and will be a very big legal issue to be settled by the courts. JMHO.
You and I are in agreement.

Below is the RSA in question and I have highlighted in red the subsection that the State believes allows it to revoke the certificate for just cause after the appropriate hearing.


270-D:13 Issuance of Safe Boater Education Certificate.
I. The commissioner or designee shall issue a safe boater education certificate to a person 16 years of age or older who:
(a) Passes a safe boater education course approved by the commissioner in accordance with the criteria of the National Association of State Boating Law Administration. A classroom course shall provide a minimum of 8 hours of instruction. Passage of a safe boater education course shall require successful completion of a proctored examination administered by a person authorized by the commissioner in accordance with rules adopted by the commissioner. The minimum passing grade for the examination shall be 80 percent; or
(b) Passes a safe boater equivalency examination administered by persons approved to offer boating safety education courses. The minimum passing grade for the examination shall be 80 percent. A certificate issued to a person passing the equivalency examination shall specify that the certificate is issued as evidence of satisfactory completion of a safe boater examination and entitles the holder to operate a vessel on the public waters of New Hampshire.
II. Once issued, the certificate of safe boater education shall be valid for the lifetime of the person and may not be revoked by the department of safety or a court without cause and a hearing in accordance with RSA 541-A.
III. The commissioner, or designee, shall replace a lost or destroyed certificate upon written request of the person entitled thereto and payment of the prescribed fee, and such copy shall have the same form and effect as the original.
IV. Any person who successfully completes a safe boater education course or safe boater equivalency examination after reaching the age of 15 shall be issued a safe boater education certificate upon attaining the age of 16.
Skip is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Skip For This Useful Post:
tis (08-15-2010)
Old 08-14-2010, 07:18 PM   #16
VtSteve
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,313
Thanks: 230
Thanked 358 Times in 167 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bear Islander View Post
Personally I wonder why people feel the need to post that they are not interested in a thread. Every day I skip over dozens of threads because I am not interested in the topic. It's like reading a magazine or newspapers, if the subject doesn't interest you, move on.

Obviously the member that starts a thread thinks it is worth posting. And if even one person gives a reply then they were correct.

Posting you are not interested in the topic is just plain rude.
Have to agree BI. If everyone felt that way, there would never be any issues in any forums. How dreadfully refreshing.
VtSteve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2010, 01:58 PM   #17
SIKSUKR
Senior Member
 
SIKSUKR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 5,014
Thanks: 214
Thanked 887 Times in 500 Posts
Default

It probably is forum newsworthy and I am also a big supporter of Skip's contribution to this forum. It does appear to me however that Skip has been piling on with his Erica threads.
__________________
SIKSUKR
SIKSUKR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2010, 02:20 PM   #18
jmen24
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,139
Thanks: 223
Thanked 317 Times in 180 Posts
Default

If this is so important to the boating community. Why was it not posted into the boating forum?
jmen24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2010, 02:51 PM   #19
Skip
Senior Member
 
Skip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Dover, NH
Posts: 1,582
Thanks: 226
Thanked 492 Times in 165 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmen24 View Post
If this is so important to the boating community. Why was it not posted into the boating forum?
Answered in post #12 above.
Skip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2010, 02:55 PM   #20
Lakesrider
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,129
Thanks: 380
Thanked 1,016 Times in 345 Posts
Default

So a 16 year old can get into a boat and go 100 mph in his/her fathers boat and not get any points on their license....because they don't have one, but if I go less than a 150 feet away from a dock I can get a citation that gets put on my license.
BTW...Boaters are not really tested. They go to course, hopefully pass the test, and get a certificate. No one is ever taken out on the water and proven to be a responsible, safe boater. Just hop in the boat with your fresh new certificate and off you go to create havoc on the lake....Once they have drivers ed for boats...that is when they will be tested.
Lakesrider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2010, 03:00 PM   #21
Skip
Senior Member
 
Skip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Dover, NH
Posts: 1,582
Thanks: 226
Thanked 492 Times in 165 Posts
Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakesrider View Post
So a 16 year old can get into a boat and go 100 mph in his/her fathers boat and not get any points on their license....because they don't have one, but if I go less than a 150 feet away from a dock I can get a citation that gets put on my license.
BTW...Boaters are not really tested. They go to course, hopefully pass the test, and get a certificate. No one is ever taken out on the water and proven to be a responsible, safe boater. Just hop in the boat with your fresh new certificate and off you go to create havoc on the lake....Once they have drivers ed for boats...that is when they will be tested.
Actually DMV will create a record for the individual, even if they don't yet have a license.

When they attempt to get a license, or actually procure one then the violation you use as an example will transfer over and possibly affect their license status and insurance rates.

Finally pre-drivers (teens in particular) that commit gross vehicular offenses, or a boating offense as you describe, usually find that their privilege to operate a motor vehicle is revoked/suspended until their 18th birthday at a minimum.
Skip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2010, 03:37 PM   #22
hazelnut
Senior Member
 
hazelnut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,348
Thanks: 503
Thanked 461 Times in 161 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bear Islander View Post
Personally I wonder why people feel the need to post that they are not interested in a thread. Every day I skip over dozens of threads because I am not interested in the topic. It's like reading a magazine or newspapers, if the subject doesn't interest you, move on.

Obviously the member that starts a thread thinks it is worth posting. And if even one person gives a reply then they were correct.

Posting you are not interested in the topic is just plain rude.
You missed the point. Skip recently went off about forum civility and lectured the entire community on keeping winnipesaukee.com a more civil community then he goes and creates a thread with a subject that has been considered one of THE most controversial in the history of this site.

So do as I say not as I do? I'm just a bit confused is all.

I probably wouldn't have commented if you BI or any other forum member on this site posted this thread. It is just in light of Skip's recent thread condemning the rest of the contributors for causing trouble I was surprised to see him post this.

Carry on.
hazelnut is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to hazelnut For This Useful Post:
DEJ (08-17-2010), XCR-700 (08-17-2010)
Old 08-16-2010, 04:22 PM   #23
Lakesrider
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,129
Thanks: 380
Thanked 1,016 Times in 345 Posts
Default

Good to know. Lots of kids get to take Dads toys out, whether they are cars or Boats, and never really learn to respect a vehicle simply because it is handed to them. My father made me buy my first car and pay for every aspect of ownership. I was in Wolfeboro the other day and watched several teenagers in a Sea Doo boat. The driver simply hit reverse and never looked behind him almost hitting an incoming boat to the docks. Makes me cringe to think of what is going on elsewhere on the lake.....
Lakesrider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2010, 05:19 PM   #24
jrc
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Hollis/Gilford
Posts: 2,688
Thanks: 33
Thanked 437 Times in 247 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skip View Post
Actually DMV will create a record for the individual, even if they don't yet have a license...
30 plus years ago (God I'm old) I tested this by getting three motor vehicle violations before my 16th birthday. They were on my drivers license when I got it.
jrc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2010, 07:34 PM   #25
SAMIAM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Moultonborough
Posts: 2,259
Thanks: 123
Thanked 843 Times in 311 Posts
Default

Skip seems to have an obsession with the Blizzard case as shown by his scores of posts on the subject.......never mind what the courts have decided.Skip seems to know better.Hopefully,Skip never makes a mistake in his life.
Why not just leave it alone and let people heal a little.It was a mistake....a skrew up that anyone could have made.
I grew up on the lake and old timers that I talk to tell me that it could have happened to anyone at the right moment....even Skip.
SAMIAM is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to SAMIAM For This Useful Post:
Shreddy (08-16-2010)
Old 08-16-2010, 07:47 PM   #26
NoBozo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Portsmouth. RI
Posts: 2,233
Thanks: 402
Thanked 459 Times in 307 Posts
Default

Since the Verdict..I have had the impression that Law Inforcement was NOT Happy with the Jury. Funny thing..The very next day....Erica gets grabbed for...speeding....what a coincidence. NB

PS: I didn't bring it up. Just my thoughts.
NoBozo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2010, 09:05 PM   #27
Yankee
Senior Member
 
Yankee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 150
Thanks: 19
Thanked 38 Times in 23 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SAMIAM View Post
Skip seems to have an obsession with the Blizzard case as shown by his scores of posts on the subject.......never mind what the courts have decided.Skip seems to know better.Hopefully,Skip never makes a mistake in his life.
Why not just leave it alone and let people heal a little.It was a mistake....a skrew up that anyone could have made.
I grew up on the lake and old timers that I talk to tell me that it could have happened to anyone at the right moment....even Skip.
Well said, Sam.

I have pretty much stayed away from this discussion, but you've hit a nerve. As another who grew up here, I know every nook and cranny of this lake as well as anyone. I admit that I made my share of mistakes on this lake in my youth, and look back at my younger days and realize the poor choices that I made and thank my lucky stars that I came through it mostly unscathed.

So I for one will cast no umbrage regarding this tragedy. I too tire of this play-by-play regardless how important some think that the legal precedents need to be publicised.


Has it really been that easy for so many of you to throw those stones?
__________________
__________________
__________________
So what have we learned in the past two thousand years?

"The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of Obamunism should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest the Republic become bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance."

. . .Evidently nothing.

(Cicero, 55 BC augmented by me, 2010 AD)
Yankee is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Yankee For This Useful Post:
DEJ (08-17-2010), VtSteve (08-16-2010), XCR-700 (08-17-2010)
Old 08-16-2010, 09:08 PM   #28
Jonas Pilot
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Wolfeboro, New Hampshire is my home, 24-7-365
Posts: 1,686
Thanks: 1,047
Thanked 336 Times in 189 Posts
Default Question?

"So I for one will cast no umbrage regarding this tragedy. I too tire of this play-by-play regardless how important some think that the legal precedents need to be publicised."

What does umbrage mean?
Jonas Pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2010, 09:12 PM   #29
Yankee
Senior Member
 
Yankee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 150
Thanks: 19
Thanked 38 Times in 23 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonas Pilot View Post
What does umbrage mean?
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/umbrage
__________________
__________________
__________________
So what have we learned in the past two thousand years?

"The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of Obamunism should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest the Republic become bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance."

. . .Evidently nothing.

(Cicero, 55 BC augmented by me, 2010 AD)
Yankee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2010, 09:23 PM   #30
Jonas Pilot
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Wolfeboro, New Hampshire is my home, 24-7-365
Posts: 1,686
Thanks: 1,047
Thanked 336 Times in 189 Posts
Default

Thanks. Now I understand. You threw me when you said cast.
Jonas Pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2010, 09:52 PM   #31
Skip
Senior Member
 
Skip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Dover, NH
Posts: 1,582
Thanks: 226
Thanked 492 Times in 165 Posts
Smile Let's keep this thread on topic please....

As this case continues to unfold, and its ramifications spread throughout the boating community in the entire state, I will continue to post it's progress.

As Bear Islander stated, if you are disturbed by this case then my only advice is to avoid the threads I post in reference to case law generated by this crime.

I started this thread and politely asked that we keep it on the subject at hand, that being the determination if indeed the State will ultimately be able to suspend or revoke a "lifetime issued" boating safety certificate for Just Cause.

It is ultimately up to the webmaster to determine the worthiness of this or any subsequent thread in regards to this subject.

That said gentlemen, can we please keep this thread on subject?

Thank you in advance...

Skip
Skip is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Skip For This Useful Post:
ironhorsetim (08-17-2010), Mink Islander (08-30-2010), pats fan (08-17-2010), secondcurve (08-17-2010)
Old 08-16-2010, 09:56 PM   #32
VtSteve
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,313
Thanks: 230
Thanked 358 Times in 167 Posts
Default

VtSteve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2010, 05:13 AM   #33
secondcurve
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,006
Thanks: 1,086
Thanked 527 Times in 268 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SAMIAM View Post
Skip seems to have an obsession with the Blizzard case as shown by his scores of posts on the subject.......never mind what the courts have decided.Skip seems to know better.Hopefully,Skip never makes a mistake in his life.
Why not just leave it alone and let people heal a little.It was a mistake....a skrew up that anyone could have made.
I grew up on the lake and old timers that I talk to tell me that it could have happened to anyone at the right moment....even Skip.
Sam:

I think Skip's record speaks for itself. This is an important issue. I for one hope the state has the authority to permanently revoke boating certificates in cases such as this and I am watching the outcome carefully. I also will note that this wasn't a youthful mistake and heavy alcohol was involved so I disagree with your conclusion that this was a screw up that could happen to anyone.
secondcurve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2010, 12:42 PM   #34
gtagrip
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 301
Thanks: 115
Thanked 75 Times in 52 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skip View Post
As Bear Islander stated, if you are disturbed by this case then my only advice is to avoid the threads I post in reference to case law generated by this crime.
Skip
Where have I heard this before?
gtagrip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2010, 01:32 PM   #35
XCR-700
Senior Member
 
XCR-700's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Andover, MA
Posts: 332
Thanks: 152
Thanked 109 Times in 51 Posts
Thumbs down Boy you folks just offer up the best library of quotes to choose from,,,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skip View Post
As this case continues to unfold, and its ramifications spread throughout the boating community in the entire state, I will continue to post it's progress.

As Bear Islander stated, if you are disturbed by this case then my only advice is to avoid the threads I post in reference to case law generated by this crime.

I started this thread and politely asked that we keep it on the subject at hand, that being the determination if indeed the State will ultimately be able to suspend or revoke a "lifetime issued" boating safety certificate for Just Cause.

It is ultimately up to the webmaster to determine the worthiness of this or any subsequent thread in regards to this subject.

That said gentlemen, can we please keep this thread on subject?

Thank you in advance...

Skip

Hummm,,, Now lets see what were the comments I got recently,,,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam View Post
Will this never end?
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrawfordCentury View Post
Ha! Since we're using this thread as a means of airing our grievances, I would like to express my utter dismay at this site's smileys selection. For example, this one would come in mighty handy on occasion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skip View Post
Now we are bickering over bickering.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam View Post
You just don't get it!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamper View Post
No need to be repetive and redundant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by trfour View Post
Ever since this thread showed up out here, I've been reading along and just praying to God to keep my mouth shut!....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acres per Second View Post
you probably haven't seen other Lakes Region forums regularly purge their entire Boating forums
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Thunder View Post
You've posted x times in this thread alone. I think you've made your point.......can we move on? Blue Thunder
Quote:
Originally Posted by brk-lnt View Post
Dude. Seriously. The opinions HAVE been heard. About 8000 times.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skipper of the Sea Que View Post
Let's give this a rest and go moderately about our enjoyment of the lake and this web site. sliding off box of soap now...
Take your pick, as they all seem to fit!
XCR-700 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to XCR-700 For This Useful Post:
DEJ (08-17-2010), VtSteve (08-17-2010)
Old 08-17-2010, 02:17 PM   #36
Skip
Senior Member
 
Skip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Dover, NH
Posts: 1,582
Thanks: 226
Thanked 492 Times in 165 Posts
Post Additional considerations....

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrc View Post
30 plus years ago (God I'm old) I tested this by getting three motor vehicle violations before my 16th birthday. They were on my drivers license when I got it.
Thanks for the personal confirmation...

Sorry for the circumstances.

Anyway, not only does NHDMV open a file for a New Hampshire resident regardless if they have a license, they do the same for out-of-State resdents.

Why is this important?

Many other States do not recognize a boating offense as a driving offense like has been recently ammended here in New Hampshire.

But if you are from out of State you must abide by NH rules while in NH. Therefore the boating offenses you may incur as a visitor to this fine State will reside in your NH folder. It is possible that you could retain enough points to eventually have your right to operate in NH suspended or revoked based in part or in whole on those violations. You could still be valid in your own or other States, but have lost your privilege here in NH.

Additionaly while your home State may not recognize boating offenses as driving offenses, they may reciprocate with NH when NH suspends your license in our State for boating points.

Yep, it gets pretty murky and adds further reason why this new aspect of the case bears close watching and eventual analysis.

And people sometimes woinder why we have so many attornies!
Skip is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Skip For This Useful Post:
ironhorsetim (08-17-2010)
Old 08-17-2010, 03:09 PM   #37
MAXUM
Senior Member
 
MAXUM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Hooksett, NH & Bear Island, NH
Posts: 1,736
Thanks: 167
Thanked 1,146 Times in 420 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by secondcurve View Post
Sam:

I think Skip's record speaks for itself. This is an important issue. I for one hope the state has the authority to permanently revoke boating certificates in cases such as this and I am watching the outcome carefully. I also will note that this wasn't a youthful mistake and heavy alcohol was involved so I disagree with your conclusion that this was a screw up that could happen to anyone.
I agree, can we please decouple the issue at hand which is revoking safety certs issued by the state and whatever case may have brought this issue to be argued by the court system. Good grief folks this is a legit thing to be following and certainly a great topic of discussion. I personally don't think that the details of the Blizzard case are relevant here, only to the point of what the courts may sight as justification for considering revoking said certificate which clearly the law suggests they have the authority to do.

This will be precedent setting for sure no matter what the court decides. Burying your head in the sand because this is "to controversial" to discuss is not going to stop a decision from being made.

I can see where this may go, since the section highlighted that addresses possibly revocation is vague, look for that to be possibly clarified to site specific circumstances where action can be taken.
MAXUM is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to MAXUM For This Useful Post:
ironhorsetim (08-17-2010), XCR-700 (08-17-2010)
Old 08-17-2010, 06:03 PM   #38
Yankee
Senior Member
 
Yankee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 150
Thanks: 19
Thanked 38 Times in 23 Posts
Default The last time I checked, this was a forum...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skip View Post

That said gentlemen, can we please keep this thread on subject?

Thank you in advance...

Skip
No thank you required. I have, and did.

From the World English Dictionary:
forum (ˈfɔːrəm)

— n , pl -rums , -ra
1. a meeting or assembly for the open discussion of subjects of public interest
2. a medium for open discussion, such as a magazine
3. a public meeting place for open discussion
4. a court; tribunal
5. (in South Africa) a pressure group of leaders or representatives, esp Black leaders or representatives
6. (in ancient Italy) an open space, usually rectangular in shape, serving as a city's marketplace and centre of public business

So, am I to understand that anyone who has an opinion that differs from the OP of a thread (especially when the OP is skip) should not post in said thread? Other than a having a mutual cyber hand holding kumbaya moment, how would any discussion take place?

I'm not going to get into any banter here with those who disagree. THAT would be off-topic.

I will NOT not stop politely, respectfully, expressing my opinion to a topic in a public forum!
__________________
__________________
__________________
So what have we learned in the past two thousand years?

"The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of Obamunism should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest the Republic become bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance."

. . .Evidently nothing.

(Cicero, 55 BC augmented by me, 2010 AD)
Yankee is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Yankee For This Useful Post:
DEJ (08-17-2010)
Old 08-17-2010, 07:47 PM   #39
VtSteve
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,313
Thanks: 230
Thanked 358 Times in 167 Posts
Default Perhaps change the topic name?

I agree with Skip, this is an important issue to settle.

But at least a few on this board, Skip included, could possibly grit their teeth at past actions during other sermons. It's just not OK to tell everyone how to act or not act, and then expect different treatment elsewhere.

No offense Skip, but you earned this one because of the thread title. I like BI's suggestion, which was to turn the page if you don't like the content. It's too bad that rule only applies to some, and not all.

This was almost laughable, even though I agree totally with him on it.


Originally Posted by Skip
As Bear Islander stated, if you are disturbed by this case then my only advice is to avoid the threads I post in reference to case law generated by this crime.
Skip


So maybe some should get off that 20 foot high horse and take their own advice?
VtSteve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2010, 07:48 PM   #40
NoBozo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Portsmouth. RI
Posts: 2,233
Thanks: 402
Thanked 459 Times in 307 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankee View Post

So, am I to understand that anyone who has an opinion that differs from the OP of a thread (especially when the OP is skip) should not post in said thread? !
YES: NO post. The rules are the rules. NB
NoBozo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2010, 08:55 PM   #41
ApS
Senior Member
 
ApS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Winnipesaukee & Florida
Posts: 3,954
Thanks: 668
Thanked 344 Times in 251 Posts
Question Whose Fault, the Headlines?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SAMIAM View Post
Really getting tired of people ponding on her.
The article is in a newspaper that most here don't subscribe to, but have occasionally found interesting and what matters to us, ultimately, is less about her and more about Attorney Jim Moir, of Concord.

(Esquire).

ApS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2010, 09:35 PM   #42
VtSteve
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,313
Thanks: 230
Thanked 358 Times in 167 Posts
Default

This is/was the headline

State defends suspension of boating privileges

http://www.citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll...931/-1/CITIZEN


I read that newspaper, and I don't live in NH. Ultimately, this issue is about the State's right to suspend boating privileges.

Yankee, I think the move to the boating section answered your question, and NB's as well

Last edited by VtSteve; 08-18-2010 at 08:47 AM. Reason: moved
VtSteve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2010, 09:38 AM   #43
pm203
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 222
Thanks: 36
Thanked 84 Times in 45 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by John A. Birdsall View Post
I am not referring to the Blizzard case, but to the people that operated there boat at 100 MPH last weekend.

I would think that since the state(s) have points on drivers license that they would put points on boating certificates (and they should be seperate issues) and after a determined amount of points they loose there right to operate on NH waters. But those that are flagrently violating the speed limit they should have there rights to operate suspended on the spot, and there boat confinscated by the state. I am not saying that the state keep there boat, but rather the MP's take it to Marine Patrol Headquarters, hauled out of the water, and stored at owners expense until they come and pick it up. All at the owners expense.

Maybe after a couple of times this being done and publicised on the lake people would take the law seriously.
A little harsh, don't you think?
pm203 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2010, 03:40 PM   #44
VitaBene
Senior Member
 
VitaBene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Moultonborough
Posts: 3,037
Thanks: 1,211
Thanked 1,331 Times in 661 Posts
Default Not really too harsh

Quote:
Originally Posted by pm203 View Post
A little harsh, don't you think?
PM, In the case that BI started a thread regarding the boat that blasted through the NWZ outrunning MP, the penalty would not be too harsh. A fine will not stop someone with deep pockets like him/her, you need to inconvenience them.

It is very similar to the laws of the road, there is a big difference between speeding and operating to endanger.
VitaBene is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to VitaBene For This Useful Post:
VtSteve (08-25-2010)
Old 08-27-2010, 11:25 AM   #45
fatlazyless
Senior Member
 
fatlazyless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 5,531
Thanks: 178
Thanked 375 Times in 274 Posts
Default

Today's Friday, August 27, Union Leader-page A8 has an editorial guest opinion article titled "A conversation with the real Erica Blizzard," written by Fergus Cullen of Wolfeboro, former chairman of the NH State Republican Party and Union Leader editorial page writer. It's about 15 paragraphs, and if you have been following Erica's motorboat accident and what, if any effect, it had in getting the Lake Winnipesaukee speed limits law passed, it is an interesting and thoughtfull opinion article.

1st paragraph-
"You know Erica Blizzard. She's the Laconia party girl from Lifestyles of the Rich and Reckless, the one with a need for speed who got drunk, smashed a $500,000 trophy boat into an island on Lake Winnipesaukee at 2:30 a.m., killed her best friend and got off easy."

middle paragraph-
"Was it a tragic accident - or a crime? Although the Beaudeoin family had mixed feelings about prosecution, Erica was charged with negligent homicide and aggravated driving while intoxicated. Receipts indicate Erica had three vodka drinks over three hours at the restaurant. The jury acquited her on the most serious charges, but found her guilty of failure to maintain a proper lookout. Facing 15 years, she was sentenced to one year in the Belknap County House of Corrections, eligible for work release after 30 days."

last paragraph-
"What purpose would be served by that? Stephanie is gone and nothing will change that. It takes more strength to get up each day resolved to make something of it. That is the choice Erica has made."
__________________
Down & out, livn that Walmart side of the lake!

Last edited by fatlazyless; 08-27-2010 at 03:26 PM.
fatlazyless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2010, 12:24 PM   #46
archstanton
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 6
Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 1 Post
Default Are you serious right now?

The only thing sadder than the whole Erica story is that someone actually thought writing and publishing that article was a good idea. You have got to be kidding me!
archstanton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2010, 03:35 PM   #47
Skip
Senior Member
 
Skip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Dover, NH
Posts: 1,582
Thanks: 226
Thanked 492 Times in 165 Posts
Post Union Leader link

I am not sure why FLL cherry picked three paragraphs instead of simply providing the link for everyone to read the whole opinion piece in its full context.

On second thoughts I am quite sure....

Anyway, this is an opinion piece by occasional contributor and former NH GOP party head (and some are alleging high school friend of Blizzard) Fergus Cullen. Cullen was formerly from Wolfeboro but now calls Dover his home.

THIS is the column referenced.
Skip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2010, 04:45 PM   #48
Newbiesaukee
Senior Member
 
Newbiesaukee's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Coral Gables, winter; Long Island, summer
Posts: 918
Thanks: 448
Thanked 280 Times in 146 Posts
Default

I followed Skip's link and read the column and comments. Even as an Op-ed column it really is unbelievable . I do not know the author or the politics behind it, but, IMO, even the most casual and uninformed reader would smell something "fishy" about the column and the motivation behind it. The comments by the Union Leader readers make the winnipesakee forum discussion about the case seem a "love-fest."
Newbiesaukee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2010, 08:38 PM   #49
VtSteve
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,313
Thanks: 230
Thanked 358 Times in 167 Posts
Default

Some of the comments, as always, are off the charts.

But one from Unwind, NH pretty much nailed it.

Responsibility. Perceived or real, that's what the angst is over.
VtSteve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2010, 09:16 AM   #50
fatlazyless
Senior Member
 
fatlazyless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 5,531
Thanks: 178
Thanked 375 Times in 274 Posts
Default

Thanks for posting a link to the entire article Skip, and you simply give me too much credit about cherrypicking the paragraphs. And, once again and for the record, the comments from F. L. Less in the Union Leader email comments are not from me, but from someone else who choose a similar alias for some reason known only to themself.

So far, there must be about 25 different email comments in the Union Leader and are definately worth a look-see.

You know, it is probably highly unlikely that former Governor John H Sununu, current chair of the NH State Republican party and successor to Fergus Cullen would write a column like that.

Isn't Fergus a graduate of Yale College(?), and it's a different type of an article than what is usually seen in the Union Leader, so here's hoping that the Union Leader runs more Fergus Cullen opinions moving ahead into the future. Let me see....the U.L. costs 50-cents.....as opposed to 2.00 for a NY Times or a Wall St Journal....so Fergus Cullen would be a welcome addition to the New Hampshire Union Leader.
__________________
Down & out, livn that Walmart side of the lake!
fatlazyless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2010, 05:20 PM   #51
Skip
Senior Member
 
Skip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Dover, NH
Posts: 1,582
Thanks: 226
Thanked 492 Times in 165 Posts
Post Negligent Driving trial delayed again....

Due to a witness being called up for military duty, Blizzard's hearing on the Negligent Driving charge she received is now continued until November.

Union Leader story and comments can be read HERE.
Skip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2010, 08:06 PM   #52
trackeer
Member
 
trackeer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Nashua NH
Posts: 23
Thanks: 1
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default

WOW,

Love the comments and in fact find it interesting reading that someone who commited a crime, served some time, and now brings to light a flaw in the system that issues a "right to operate a boat certificate" in NH and folks are PO'd that someone keeps those of us to lazy to follow the headlines abreast of the fallout of this "pityful persons accident". Very well said Yankee, that is what makes us American's, you know the Freedom of Speech thing, I'll assume some of you have heard of it?
Skip brings a valid point up and if he post numeous items relevant to this tragic affair he is mearly conveying what is either printed or spoken news that is obvious news worthy, I suppose for those who might find this news annoying or perplexing maybe you should avoid Skip's comments and change the channel or dispose of the paper you might find offending or annoying. Skips right to speech is equal to yours not to listen!!!

WOW, my first post to this site, thanks Skip
trackeer is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to trackeer For This Useful Post:
Skip (09-13-2010)
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:25 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.

This page was generated in 0.42171 seconds