Operation Dry Water

[SAMIAM]

Saw on the morning news that there is a statewide crackdown this week on impaired boaters with extra marine patrol on duty.
Every afternoon we see lots of booze cruisers, mostly in pontoon boats having a beer or glass of wine while cruising the shore at 4mph and hope they don't get too heavy handed. On the other hand, I'm glad they're out there to keep an eye out for people in go fast boats after a day of drinking
Not sure what the law is.......I believe it's legal for an operator to have an open container as long as he or she is not impaired. Anyone know if that's true?

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

Saw on the morning news that there is a statewide crackdown this week on impaired boaters with extra marine patrol on duty.
Every afternoon we see lots of booze cruisers, mostly in pontoon boats having a beer or glass of wine while cruising the shore at 4mph and hope they don't get too heavy handed.On the other hand,I'm glad they're out there to keep an eye out for people in go fast boats after a day of drinking
Not sure what the law is.......I believe it's legal for an operator to have an open container as long as he or she is not impared.Anyone know if that's true?

It is completely legal to have an open container when on or operating your boat. You cannot be impaired however. At the legal limit in NH of .08, that usually means two beers / drinks max for the majority of us... Not much difference than the laws on the road except the open container part. Go out to dinner have a glass of wine, no problem...go out to dinner have a bottle of wine, see you in the slammer!


Dan

[TiltonBB]

WMUR had a short piece about it. It looks like it was filmed at the Glendale docks.


http://www.wmur.com/article/nh-marin...99469/22013992

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

It is completely legal to have an open container when on or operating your boat. You cannot be impaired however. At the legal limit in NH of .08, that usually means two beers / drinks max for the majority of us... Not much difference than the laws on the road except the open container part. Go out to dinner have a glass of wine, no problem...go out to dinner have a bottle of wine, see you in the slammer!


Dan

I think one of the issues of comparing driving to boating, however, is that sun, wind, and dehydration amplify the effect of alcohol.

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[JADAQ]

Marine patrol can’t navigate a boat at the sand bar without running aground...

Wonder how well said officer can do field sobriety tests..??

[Hillcountry]

Originally Posted by JADAQ

Marine patrol can’t navigate a boat at the sand bar without running aground...

Wonder how well said officer can do field sobriety tests..??

Ha...all a MP officer needs to know is: BLOW...BLOW...KEEP BLOWING...BLOW HARDER!

[Hillcountry]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

I think one of the issues of comparing driving to boating, however, is that sun, wind, and dehydration amplify the effect of alcohol.

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Hot mamas in bikinis might amplify it too!

[Parker]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

It is completely legal to have an open container when on or operating your boat. You cannot be impaired however. At the legal limit in NH of .08, that usually means two beers / drinks max for the majority of us... Not much difference than the laws on the road except the open container part. Go out to dinner have a glass of wine, no problem...go out to dinner have a bottle of wine, see you in the slammer!


Dan

Anybody have the RSA for this? Would like to know the law verbatim of possible....did a quick search but couldn’t find anything

[Doobs41378]

Originally Posted by Parker

Anybody have the RSA for this? Would like to know the law verbatim of possible....did a quick search but couldn’t find anything

I don’t have the RSA but what he says is true in NH.


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[Poor Richard]

There isn't an RSA regarding open container on a vessel.

As already stated, .08 BAC is NH DWI threshold.

Marine Patrol can act on that threshold as they see fit.

EDIT: Nearly forgot.....


https://nhtourguide.com/is-it-legal-...shire-208.html

[Cal Coon]

A DUI on a boat has EXACTLY the same ramifications as a DUI in your car in the state of NH. You would think WMUR would have mentioned that... However, a good lawyer will have a field day arguing the field sobriety test of someone that is on a "rocking" boat, or even bringing that person to land for the sobriety test after being on a boat for a long period of time, because it is a fact that some people continue to "feel" like they are still "rocking" on a boat long after they have been off the boat. Don't get me wrong, I don't condone drunk driving, just saying that if you are stupid enough to drink and drive, and you get a DUI, you have a better chance of beating it on a boat arrest. I witnessed this trial in Laconia District court a few years ago when I was there fighting a speeding ticket, and the perp was found not guilty because of the "rocking boat" field sobriety test defense... Personally, I don't drink, so I have no worries, but if I did and I was driving the boat, I would not drink one drop of alcohol. The penalties are just way to severe to even chance it, and when you have the Gestapo of MP that is on this lake these days, it's not a question of "IF", it's WHEN you get caught. Also, in this state, if you refuse to blow, you lose your license AUTOMATICALLY for 6 months, and even if charges are dropped, or you are found innocent at trial, you still lose license for 6 months. Which is BS to me, but that's the Gestapo.

[Outdoorsman]

Originally Posted by Cal Coon

... However, a good lawyer will have a field day arguing the field sobriety test of someone that is on a "rocking" boat, or even bringing that person to land for the sobriety test after being on a boat for a long period of time, because it is a fact that some people continue to "feel" like they are still "rocking" on a boat long after they have been off the boat.

There are field sobriety tests that take that into consideration. A rocking boat does not screw up ones ability to recite the alphabet starting at a certain letter for example. Or count backward from 96-69 (i am making that up)... I am sure they are not asking you to walk ten paces, turn and walk back....

[Rinkerguy]

NH MP unfortunately can board your vessel without cause to perform a “ safety check” once they see an open container they will go into alcohol investigation mode. In the end, they need cause to perform a field sobriety check. Keeping your intake to one drink per hour, should allow you to metabolize the alcohol, and eating food and drinking water will help keep you BAC down.

Drinking Responsibile is the best advise

[Top-Water]

Originally Posted by Rinkerguy

NH MP unfortunately can board your vessel without cause to perform a “ safety check” ...........

Debated here a few years ago.
https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums...ad.php?t=15793

[noreast]

Originally Posted by Poor Richard

There isn't an RSA regarding open container on a vessel.

As already stated, .08 BAC is NH DWI threshold.

Marine Patrol can act on that threshold as they see fit.

EDIT: Nearly forgot.....


https://nhtourguide.com/is-it-legal-...shire-208.html

Right, This is the real law, Truth is you can easily get A BWI after a beer or two. You blow a .03 and make an illegal or stupid move, Bang you can be charged. You are further impaired by sea legs, sun beating down, waves rocking. It really is BS, I don't drink so not an issue for me, but they want it both ways, It's ok you're allowed to drink but not really.

[Outdoorsman]

Originally Posted by noreast

Right, This is the real law, Truth is you can easily get A BWI after a beer or two. You blow a .03 and make an illegal or stupid move, Bang you can be charged. You are further impaired by sea legs, sun beating down, waves rocking. It really is BS, I don't drink so not an issue for me, but they want it both ways, It's ok you're allowed to drink but not really.

I would love to see the stats on this. Specifically how your BAC is somehow increased because the alcohol is consumed while sitting in a boat or how you are further impaired for any of those reasons.

I would tend to believe that it is NOT truth that you can get BWI after a beer or two, nor is it illegal to blow a .03.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by Outdoorsman

I would love to see the stats on this. Specifically how your BAC is somehow increased because the alcohol is consumed while sitting in a boat or how you are further impaired for any of those reasons.

I would tend to believe that it is NOT truth that you can get BWI after a beer or two, nor is it illegal to blow a .03.

From Lucida Treatment Centers: "Not everyone realizes this, but when you’re drinking while on a boat, you will become impaired more quickly than if you were drinking on land. The effects of sun and heat dehydrate you and leave you feeling drunk with less alcohol. Add to that the rocking motion of the boat, the fatigue that sets in with drinking and heat, and you have a combination that is more dangerous than operating a car while drinking."

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[Greene's Basin Girl]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

Saw on the morning news that there is a statewide crackdown this week on impaired boaters with extra marine patrol on duty.
Every afternoon we see lots of booze cruisers, mostly in pontoon boats having a beer or glass of wine while cruising the shore at 4mph and hope they don't get too heavy handed. On the other hand, I'm glad they're out there to keep an eye out for people in go fast boats after a day of drinking
Not sure what the law is.......I believe it's legal for an operator to have an open container as long as he or she is not impaired. Anyone know if that's true?

You mention that many of the drinkers you see are on pontoon boats. It is much easier to see people drinking in an open boat like a pontoon boat. I am sure there are just as many people drinking in other boats where the people on them are not as visible.

[SAB1]

Spot on cal coon!

[Merrymeeting]

Originally Posted by Cal Coon

A DUI on a boat has EXACTLY the same ramifications as a DUI in your car in the state of NH. You would think WMUR would have mentioned that...

In the report I saw this AM about this story...they did.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by noreast

Right, This is the real law, Truth is you can easily get A BWI after a beer or two. You blow a .03 and make an illegal or stupid move, Bang you can be charged. You are further impaired by sea legs, sun beating down, waves rocking. It really is BS, I don't drink so not an issue for me, but they want it both ways, It's ok you're allowed to drink but not really.

For the sun/dehydration reasons you and Think have noted, I can't quite imagine myself having multiple drinks on a boat I was piloting, so I think the law makes sense. You can have a beer on a beautiful day on the lake without legal fear, but not more than one if people are counting on you.

[Rusty]

I weight 250 lbs and can have a little over 4 drinks before I blow .08

[The Real BigGuy]

I believe you are correct for normal conditions however, the sun & heat associated with boating causes dehydration which reduces this somewhat. (By the way, I’m also 250 and have been saying and trying to prove for a long time that I can consume more beer than the average 160 pound midget, err I mean man.)


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[AC2717]

Originally Posted by Outdoorsman

There are field sobriety tests that take that into consideration. A rocking boat does not screw up ones ability to recite the alphabet starting at a certain letter for example. Or count backward from 96-69 (i am making that up)... I am sure they are not asking you to walk ten paces, turn and walk back....

while i would agree, my wife with MS cannot balance on one leg, it attacked her eye nerves, so they jump a little, and reciting the alphabet backwards or starting at a letter is hard enough sober on dry land.

i do not condone it, but I can see how easy it would be to beat unless you were fall down drunk blacking out

[noreast]

Originally Posted by Outdoorsman

I would love to see the stats on this. Specifically how your BAC is somehow increased because the alcohol is consumed while sitting in a boat or how you are further impaired for any of those reasons.

I would tend to believe that it is NOT truth that you can get BWI after a beer or two, nor is it illegal to blow a .03.

Read poor richards article he posted above, I don't necessarily agree with it, but that is what marine patrol can and will do. You might win in court and you might not but they can arrest you.

[hd333]

Originally Posted by AC2717

while i would agree, my wife with MS cannot balance on one leg, it attacked her eye nerves, so they jump a little, and reciting the alphabet backwards or starting at a letter is hard enough sober on dry land.



i do not condone it, but I can see how easy it would be to beat unless you were fall down drunk blacking out

I honestly think I would have a better shot saying the alphabet backwards if I WAS drunk. I just tried and stumbled through it. Is that really a field sobriety test?


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[FlyingScot]

Forget the law--I would never get into a boat with a captain who had 4, even if he was 350

[The Real BigGuy]

My brother went to trial on DUI in NH. His lawyer got the arresting officer to admit (over strong objections of the prosecutor) that the field sobriety test are designed to make the defendant fail. In the end it didn’t help his case. I tried the tests stone cold sober and failed all. His lawyer said that If I had been stopped when sober my only defense would be to request a breathalyzer or blood test.

Like everything, there are bad apple officers who will do what they can to screw you. I’m betting there are far more who are trying to do the right thing to keep others safe.


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[pault842]

Originally Posted by The Real BigGuy

My brother went to trial on DUI in NH. His lawyer got the arresting officer to admit (over strong objections of the prosecutor) that the field sobriety test are designed to make the defendant fail. In the end it didn’t help his case. I tried the tests stone cold sober and failed all. His lawyer said that If I had been stopped when sober my only defense would be to request a breathalyzer or blood test.

Like everything, there are bad apple officers who will do what they can to screw you. I’m betting there are far more who are trying to do the right thing to keep others safe.


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I don't understand, can't you ask for a breathalyzer if you fail the field sobriety test?

[pault842]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Forget the law--I would never get into a boat with a captain who had 4, even if he was 350

Exactly the way I feel. I am always especially reluctant to take passengers out that have had too much to drink. When my brother-in-law arrives with a case of beer, I'm much happier staying on the beach.

[TheVoiceOfReason]

Originally Posted by Cal Coon

The penalties are just way to severe to even chance it, and when you have the Gestapo of MP that is on this lake these days, it's not a question of "IF", it's WHEN you get caught. Also, in this state, if you refuse to blow, you lose your license AUTOMATICALLY for 6 months, and even if charges are dropped, or you are found innocent at trial, you still lose license for 6 months. Which is BS to me, but that's the Gestapo.

Probably both a bit unnecessary and a bit of hyperbole to compare the MP to the Gestapo.

[hd333]

Originally Posted by pault842

Exactly the way I feel. I am always especially reluctant to take passengers out that have had too much to drink. When my brother-in-law arrives with a case of beer, I'm much happier staying on the beach.

I may be Mr Party Pooper but once a beer hits my lips the boat/seadoo is not leaving the dock with me at the controls. It isn’t worth it.

The kids better get me early in the day if they want to tube/wakeboard, etc....

Beer in the hand = Feet in the sand.


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[Poor Richard]

[Cal Coon]

Originally Posted by TheVoiceOfReason

Probably both a bit unnecessary and a bit of hyperbole to compare the MP to the Gestapo.

Of course it's hyperbole, I just used the word Gestapo for emphasis of the overwhelming presence of not just Marine Patrol, I include State Police, Fish & Game, Sheriffs Dept, and just about ALL of the local Police Departments in NH. IMHO ALL are over staffed, and overbearing in this state. I support law enforcement (to a point), but when they can board your boat for any reason, stop your commercial truck for any reason, tell you to "open your hood" (on a snowmobile) for any reason, all for the "sake of safety", I think that is out of control in a state with the greatest motto of all the states in the country!! I don't agree that they should be able to do ANY of it without JUST CAUSE. Not to mention the tax burden on top of it all... One of my all time favorite quotes: WHEN A SOCIETY IS WILLING TO SACRIFICE LIBERTIES FOR THE SAKE OF SAFETY, IT WILL LOSE BOTH, AND DESERVE NEITHER. Benjamin Franklin

[The Real BigGuy]

“I support law enforcement (to a point) . . . “. Yea, to the point where it infringes on you. Probably the younger generation if you are using the Gestapo in any of your comparisons. Sometimes it’s good to engage your brain before you open your mouth. You probably have never met anyone w/a number tattooed on their forearm.


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[kawishiwi]

Originally Posted by Cal Coon

Not just Marine Patrol, I include State Police, Fish & Game, Sheriffs Dept, and just about ALL of the local Police Departments in NH. IMHO ALL are over staffed, and overbearing in this state. I support law enforcement (to a point), but when they can board your boat for any reason, stop your commercial truck for any reason, tell you to "open your hood" (on a snowmobile) for any reason, all for the "sake of safety", I think that is out of control in a state with the greatest motto of all the states in the country!! I don't agree that they should be able to do ANY of it without JUST CAUSE. Not to mention the tax burden on top of it all... One of my all time favorite quotes: WHEN A SOCIETY IS WILLING TO SACRIFICE LIBERTIES FOR THE SAKE OF SAFETY, IT WILL LOSE BOTH, AND DESERVE NEITHER. Benjamin Franklin

... someone needs a nap.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by Cal Coon

One of my all time favorite quotes: WHEN A SOCIETY IS WILLING TO SACRIFICE LIBERTIES FOR THE SAKE OF SAFETY, IT WILL LOSE BOTH, AND DESERVE NEITHER. Benjamin Franklin

You sure did butcher what Ben Franklin actually said and meant.
Get back to us when you do a little research about his real quote.

[Cal Coon]

Originally Posted by Rusty

You sure did butcher what Ben Franklin actually said and meant.
Get back to us when you do a little research about his real quote.

I guess it all depends on what web site you looked it up. What's your version, rusty?

[thinkxingu]

https://www.npr.org/2015/03/02/39024...n-21st-century

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[Cal Coon]

Originally Posted by The Real BigGuy

“I support law enforcement (to a point) . . . “. Yea, to the point where it infringes on you. Probably the younger generation if you are using the Gestapo in any of your comparisons. Sometimes it’s good to engage your brain before you open your mouth. You probably have never met anyone w/a number tattooed on their forearm.


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You are absolutely right!! As a law abiding, tax paying citizen, I take offense to any "Authorities" being able to stop me in my tracks for NO reason. That's infringement, and goes against everything this country was founded on!! I would think that any true, red blooded, proud American would feel the same way. That's taught in Freedom 101. I believe in a Nation of laws, not a lawless nation. Maybe you should heed your own advice.

[SAMIAM]

I have a breathalizer at home that I bought from Amazon. Check the reviews to find one that is accurate. They come with multiple mouth pieces so everyone can share in the fun : )
Seriously, it's a hoot and also responsible to let everyone take a test if you're having company at home or on the water.
I've found that Rusty's chart is very accurate and you'd be surprised at some of the readings. Many smaller women will blow .05-.08 after two glasses of wine in some cases. I blew .06 after 4 beers and a meal one afternoon but definitely would not drive a boat or anything else.
I find it very useful because some people have a high tolerance for alcohol and can be over the limit without realizing. You just might save someone from a DWI or worse if you have one around for company.

[fatlazyless]

Makes a great gift for yourself? For $11.06, made by Greenwon, Amazon has a small, key ring sized breathalyzer, designed to go on a key ring along with the keys. It runs on two aaa batteries.

Could be a good reason to shelter in place for the night on the back seat of your car/boat/motorcycle ..... and then show it to an inquiring police officer ..... like, what are you doing here? ...... but officer, my little breathalyzer was saying 0.08 so is better to be safe ...... than sorry?

Or, more likely scenario ..... hit the road .....and drive on home, anyway? Like, I am totally capable of driving with a .08 ..... what, me worry?

[Poor Richard]

Originally Posted by Cal Coon

You are absolutely right!! As a law abiding, tax paying citizen, I take offense to any "Authorities" being able to stop me in my tracks for NO reason. That's infringement. I would think that any true, red blooded, proud American would feel the same way. That's Freedom 101. I believe in a Nation of law, not a lawless nation. Maybe you should heed your own advice.

Not once in my life so far have I been under questionable circumstances with any interaction involving law enforcement, NH law enforcement included.

I'll go out on a limb and say, you have not been infringed upon and if you have, there was likely a good reason for it.

And I want to be sure I'm clear on your message....it's not that they "have", it's that they "can" board your vessel, truck, snowmobile, etc, yes?

[Formula260SS]

Every time I've been stopped, boarded and uh hummm... it was justified. I live a law abiding life now. It's funny I've never had as much as a parking ticket since and I'm a pretty conservative guy.

[Cal Coon]

Originally Posted by Poor Richard

Not once in my life so far have I been under questionable circumstances with any interaction involving law enforcement, NH law enforcement included.

I'll go out on a limb and say, you have not been infringed upon and if you have, there was likely a good reason for it.

And I want to be sure I'm clear on your message....it's not that they "have", it's that they "can" board your vessel, truck, snowmobile, etc, yes?

Yes, I am saying they "can", and I don't think that's right, and yes I have been infringed upon. I have been driving a commercial vehicle for a living now for over 30yrs in the state of NH and I have seen first hand the overwhelming presence develop over the years. The weigh station at exit 3 on the northbound side of 93 is open now more often than it's closed. They pick and choose who they stop and check, and when you pass their inspection they put a sticker on your windshield so you think maybe you don't have to worry about getting inspected again for a while, but no, 3 weeks after getting a sticker one day, I get inspected again in the same truck with the 3 week old sticker at the same weigh station, just a different inspector. What's the purpose of the sticker??? Again, I have nothing to hide, I just don't think it's right when I have done NOTHING wrong... All in the name of "safety". Also, on two separate occasions while minding my own business at a gas station on my snowmobile, I have been asked to open my hood so they can check for an altered exhaust. My sled wasn't even running on either occasion!!! Probably just because of the "brand", but still not right. All my sleds are stock except for handlebar risers. I cooperate fully as to not make things worse, but I am STEAMING inside because this is not the America I want to live in. How ironic I went for a motorcycle ride today, and as I was going by West Alton Marina, their message board read: "I will take dangerous freedom over safe slavery anytime", or something to that effect. No need to beat me up if I didn't get it verbatim. Made me very proud. Couldn't agree more WAM!!

[The Real BigGuy]

If you are driving a commercial vehicle you are subject to a safety inspection at any time. Live with it, that is the way it is. My trucks were cited for some of the most inane stuff. But that’s life when you are dragging 40,000 lbs plus on public highways. After seeing a lot crap held together by bailing wire &/or far overweight I have no issue w/safety stops.


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[ApS]

Originally Posted by Cal Coon

Of course it's hyperbole, I just used the word Gestapo for emphasis of the overwhelming presence of not just Marine Patrol, I include State Police, Fish & Game, Sheriffs Dept, and just about ALL of the local Police Departments in NH. IMHO ALL are over staffed, and overbearing in this state. I support law enforcement (to a point), but when they can board your boat for any reason, stop your commercial truck for any reason, tell you to "open your hood" (on a snowmobile) for any reason, all for the "sake of safety", I think that is out of control in a state with the greatest motto of all the states in the country!! I don't agree that they should be able to do ANY of it without JUST CAUSE. Not to mention the tax burden on top of it all... One of my all time favorite quotes: WHEN A SOCIETY IS WILLING TO SACRIFICE LIBERTIES FOR THE SAKE OF SAFETY, IT WILL LOSE BOTH, AND DESERVE NEITHER. Benjamin Franklin

On boating's deadliest day, I saw the Marine Patrol make THREE stops. After watching over 60 years, this is Winter Harbor's all-time record!

[Cal Coon]

Originally Posted by The Real BigGuy

If you are driving a commercial vehicle you are subject to a safety inspection at any time. Live with it, that is the way it is. My trucks were cited for some of the most inane stuff. But that’s life when you are dragging 40,000 lbs plus on public highways. After seeing a lot crap held together by bailing wire &/or far overweight I have no issue w/safety stops.


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I have no choice but to live with it. We are just going to have to agree to disagree. I refer you back to the West Alton Marina quote. When law enforcement hides behind the word "safety", it's ALL about raising the revenue. Life is a RISK. No guarantees. We are just getting to soft as a society. You just said it yourself when you admit that your own trucks have been cited for insane stuff... Do you pay more taxes than you have too??? You might as well if you don't mind paying for "insane stuff". Just wondering big guy, what is the level of insanity you are willing to tolerate before you start getting pissed off...?? Please advise.

[The Real BigGuy]

I’ve lived too long to get pissed at the little stuff. I might think the stuff was inane (not insane) but, you are in compliance or you are not. Almost doesn’t count. Anyway, I got into this to address your inappropriate use of “Gestapo”. I did that so, I’m out.


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[Poor Richard]

Cal Coon - I can appreciate many of your sentiments and as a courtesy, heads up if you travel internationally because you are subject to similar infringements from countless TSA-like and ATF-like agencies around the world.

[Cal Coon]

Originally Posted by The Real BigGuy

I’ve lived too long to get pissed at the little stuff. I might think the stuff was inane (not insane) but, you are in compliance or you are not. Almost doesn’t count. Anyway, I got into this to address your inappropriate use of “Gestapo”. I did that so, I’m out.


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That's exactly how they get you, a little at a time so you don't care, or notice right away. Little things add up over time. You should know that if you've been around for a while. And don't forget, the "public" roads belong to we, the people, not DOT, and they work for us, the taxpayers. That seems to get lost in all of this... I will admit that I regret using the word Gestapo. I meant no disrespect to anyone. I will substitute it with Militaristic. I believe that law enforcement has become to militaristic.

[Cal Coon]

Originally Posted by Rusty

You sure did butcher what Ben Franklin actually said and meant.
Get back to us when you do a little research about his real quote.

Hey rusty, I'm still waiting for your version of "the real quote" that you said I butchered. Your silence is deafening... Are you a history teacher in our public school system spewing propaganda to our young unsuspecting minds? It doesn't work on adults that know better...

[Garcia]

Originally Posted by Cal Coon

Hey rusty, I'm still waiting for your version of "the real quote" that you said I butchered. Your silence is deafening... Are you a history teacher in our public school system spewing propaganda to our young unsuspecting minds? It doesn't work on adults that know better...

Here is the quote I believe you are referencing: “Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.”

Franklin wrote this in 1755 - and the context of the letter is much more about taxes than liberty. It started being taken out of context about 50 years ago, give or take, and now is often used in a manner different than Franklin’s original use.

Not looking for a debate, just offering up some information.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by Cal Coon

Hey rusty, I'm still waiting for your version of "the real quote" that you said I butchered. Your silence is deafening... Are you a history teacher in our public school system spewing propaganda to our young unsuspecting minds? It doesn't work on adults that know better...

I posted a link above with info to set you straight. It expands on Garcia's summary.

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[Top-Water]

Originally Posted by Garcia

Here is the quote I believe you are referencing: “Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.”

Franklin wrote this in 1755 - and the context of the letter is much more about taxes than liberty. It started being taken out of context about 50 years ago, give or take, and now is often used in a manner different than Franklin’s original use.

Not looking for a debate, just offering up some information.

Correct Thank You.


https://www.fi.edu/benjamin-franklin...lin-never-said

Number 7 applies to this thread.

[Top-Water]

For reference here is the origin of this "Operation Dry Water"

https://www.nh.gov/safety/divisions/...-dry-water.pdf

Then WMUR ran one of there Human Interest BS stories about it. I mention BS because there should not be a special weekend where they enforce the laws that are already on the books, because of a press release. BS twice because they mention increased enforcement across the states waterways. Fished most of the day last Saturday June 30 on Winnisquam, then spent the last half of the day at the Winnisquam sand bar ( myself - stone cold sober all day, most of the other folks ****faced). During the daylight hours the Marine Patrol Boat never moved off of its docking space. I'm not trying put down the Marine Patrol, but I hate the BS story.

[The Real BigGuy]

Originally Posted by Top-Water

Correct Thank You.


https://www.fi.edu/benjamin-franklin...lin-never-said

Number 7 applies to this thread.

Cal Coon - see above. Not a response from Rusty (which I think you deserve - to paraphrase my father, Don’t tell me what’s wrong, tell me what’s right.) but it does put Franklin in context. However, one of the great things about quotes is we can use them any way we want because we generally have no idea what their original context was.


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[Rusty]

Originally Posted by The Real BigGuy

Cal Coon - see above. Not a response from Rusty (which I think you deserve - to paraphrase my father, Don’t tell me what’s wrong, tell me what’s right.) but it does put Franklin in context. However, one of the great things about quotes is we can use them any way we want because we generally have no idea what their original context was.


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The only reason some people want a response is to continue the back & forth bickering.
I'm not going to do that.

[The Real BigGuy]

Rusty, you told him he got the quote wrong, don’t you believe you should tell him what the right quote is? Or, was he actually right?


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[Phantom]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

Saw on the morning news that there is a statewide crackdown this week on impaired boaters with extra marine patrol on duty.

This Thread started with a word about increased MP presence over the then upcoming 4th ………….

I have to say, I was on the water all day this past Friday, Saturday & Sunday and don't recall seeing a SINGLE MP boat ! Rather strange actually as we cruised the Lake significantly.


.

[BroadHopper]

There is no state law pertaining to an open container in boats, ATV, PWC, and or snow machines however if you are on a municipality with open container law who can be cited by local police. This had happen a number of times at the Laconia public docks and on the ATV corridors in Laconia. I'm sure it is the same in other towns.

[BroadHopper]

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...c585b3b85.html

[The Real BigGuy]

I have seen 1 boat since 6/29. My assumption was that they were concentrating on the south & west side of the lake. Wonder how many boats are actually out on a weekday and how many on a weekend.


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[Phantom]

Given the fact that it was the first week in July- a big vacation week - and clearly from the posts above confirmed as extremely busy with respect to boating .. I can only speak to what I observed (or didn't )

Quite odd ……… not even the usual MP drifting at the end of Weirs channel or Eagle isl. on Saturday


.

[Outdoorsman]

Originally Posted by Cal Coon

That's exactly how they get you, a little at a time so you don't care, or notice right away. Little things add up over time. You should know that if you've been around for a while. And don't forget, the "public" roads belong to we, the people, not DOT, and they work for us, the taxpayers. That seems to get lost in all of this... I will admit that I regret using the word Gestapo. I meant no disrespect to anyone. I will substitute it with Militaristic. I believe that law enforcement has become to militaristic.

I have no dog in this particular fight over DOT stopping certain people over others.... Just to add.... If the company that you work for has an unacceptable amount of violations (as a whole) I would certainly hope LE stops each and every one of you at every opportunity until your company (as a whole) reduces those violations.

[Cal Coon]

Originally Posted by Outdoorsman

I have no dog in this particular fight over DOT stopping certain people over others.... Just to add.... If the company that you work for has an unacceptable amount of violations (as a whole) I would certainly hope LE stops each and every one of you at every opportunity until your company (as a whole) reduces those violations.

I agree with you "to a point" as I like to say. I have no problem with DOT inspecting the fleet of a company, BUT, ONLY if it had pulled over a truck for a violation of some sort. Speeding, light(s) not working, uncovered load, no inspection sticker, etc,etc,etc... I don't agree with DOT hiding behind the word "safety" to be able to pull over ANY truck for ANY reason at ANY time. That's tyranny, not freedom, and could very well possibly lead to the same thing with cars down the road... (don't put anything past them), I feel the same way about dui checkpoints, totally unconstitutional imho.

[Cal Coon]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

I posted a link above with info to set you straight. It expands on Garcia's summary.

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The link you posted is pretty much just what I said. Just talking semantics. That's why I asked rusty to explain how I "butchered" it because I knew rusty's post was completely false, and I just wanted to see if he was capable of admitting he was wrong, like I did in another post when I regretted using the word Gestapo. I have no problem "taking my medicine" when I am wrong about something...

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by The Real BigGuy

Rusty, you told him he got the quote wrong, don’t you believe you should tell him what the right quote is? Or, was he actually right?


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Rusty prefers to drop bombs and then evacuate the area

[Garcia]

Originally Posted by Cal Coon

I agree with you "to a point" as I like to say. I have no problem with DOT inspecting the fleet of a company, BUT, ONLY if it had pulled over a truck for a violation of some sort. Speeding, light(s) not working, uncovered load, no inspection sticker, etc,etc,etc... I don't agree with DOT hiding behind the word "safety" to be able to pull over ANY truck for ANY reason at ANY time. That's tyranny, not freedom, and could very well possibly lead to the same thing with cars down the road... (don't put anything past them), I feel the same way about dui checkpoints, totally unconstitutional imho.

I’m just curious - what about checkpoints set up by border patrol? Not the ones on the border itself, but the ones set up within 100 miles of the border like the ones occasionally seen on norther NH and VT interstates? Also, what about stop and frisk laws? I’m torn personally as I see potential for public good while also potential for serious abuse.

[Cal Coon]

Originally Posted by Garcia

I’m just curious - what about checkpoints set up by border patrol? Not the ones on the border itself, but the ones set up within 100 miles of the border like the ones occasionally seen on norther NH and VT interstates? Also, what about stop and frisk laws? I’m torn personally as I see potential for public good while also potential for serious abuse.

They're ALL "slippery slopes"... I believe that law enforcement must have a "reasonable cause", and/or a warrant to stop anyone, or any vehicle for any reason. Otherwise you are just opening a can of worms for racism, bigotry, corruption, etc,etc,etc... Just my .02 cents.

[Outdoorsman]

GILFORD — Captain Tim Dunleavy of the New Hampshire Marine Patrol says that arrests for boating under the influence were up over last year during Operation Dry Water, an operation held in the first week in July.

More:
https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...72100068b.html

[PaugusBayFireFighter]

Originally Posted by Outdoorsman

GILFORD — Captain Tim Dunleavy of the New Hampshire Marine Patrol says that arrests for boating under the influence were up over last year during Operation Dry Water, an operation held in the first week in July.

More:
https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...72100068b.html

Not too surprised. We are seeing the busiest boating in a decade coupled with great weather and a good economy.
Maybe they will conduct 'Operation Bong Water' next season!

[SAMIAM]

Originally Posted by PaugusBayFireFighter

Not too surprised. We are seeing the busiest boating in a decade coupled with great weather and a good economy.
Maybe they will conduct 'Operation Bong Water' next season!

[Outdoorsman]

Originally Posted by PaugusBayFireFighter

Not too surprised. We are seeing the busiest boating in a decade coupled with great weather and a good economy.
Maybe they will conduct 'Operation Bong Water' next season!

Illegal is illegal be it drugs or alcohol.