Go Back   Winnipesaukee Forum > Winnipesaukee Forums > Boating
Home Forums Gallery Blogs YouTube Channel Classifieds Links Calendar Register FAQDonate Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-30-2010, 11:07 AM   #1
Marine Patrol
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 21
Thanks: 1
Thanked 333 Times in 20 Posts
Default Marine Patrol to Enforce Shoreline and Navigation Light Violations

Please see below a copy of today's press release from the Marine Patrol. We are asking property owners and boaters alike to voluntarily comply with the state law that makes it illegal to display lights that can be mistaken for the prescribed navigation lights of a boat.

In an effort to eliminate confusing/illegal displays of lights that can often affect the stand-on vs. give-way vessel as it pertains to crossing and overtaking situations, we are asking folks to look at how they are illuminating their shoreline property. In addition, accent lighting on vessels that can be mistaken for the prescribed navigation lights also create hazards using the same scenario.

As a result we are making an effort to educate the public of the issue and provide them with notice that Marine Patrol will be enforcing these laws. For reference they are:

RSA 270-D:7:a
Administrative Rule Saf-C 403.19

If you have any questions, or have identified an area of concern, please call MP Headquarters at 603-293-2037. Thank you,

Safe Boating!!

Tim Dunleavy
Lieutenant
NH Marine Patrol


STATE OF NEW HAMPSHIRE

Department of Safety

Division of Safety Services, Bureau of Marine Patrol



NEWS RELEASE



For Immediate Release, Wednesday, June 30, 2010

Contact: Lt. Timothy Dunleavy, 603-293-2037



N.H. MARINE PATROL STEPS UP ENFORCEMENT AGAINST ILLEGAL OUTDOOR LIGHTING



Gilford, N.H. - The N.H. Marine Patrol is increasing its enforcement actions against illegal lighting along the shores of the state’s lakes. RSA 270-D:7-a makes it illegal to display at any point from the shore visible from the water, any lights that resemble in color or configuration the required navigation lights of any vessel. It is also illegal for a boat to exhibit any other lights which might be mistaken for the prescribed navigation lights.



With the increased availability of energy efficient lights and the variety of colors available, more red, green, and white lights are being displayed along the waterfront. They are being displayed on various structures, including porches, flagpoles, boathouses and docks.



The problem is the confusion that is created by the colored lights that leads boaters to believe they are seeing another boat on the water. Unlike motor vehicles, lights on boats are used for navigation purposes, not for seeing where you are traveling. Red, green, and white lights help boaters determine who has right of way, whether a boat is underway or at anchor, and whether a boat is a sailboat, rowboat, or powerboat.



In addition to the complaints being filed by the public, Marine Patrol officers have also reported certain light displays that are dangerous to navigation. A spotlight shining at the end of a dock toward the water quickly takes away the night vision of an operator that is critical to night navigation. Spotlights can also “drown out” the less bright navigation lights of another boat, making it difficult for boaters to see each other.



The Marine Patrol would also remind boaters that any light being exhibited in addition to the prescribed navigation lights for their vessel is also illegal. After-market accent light fixtures have become very popular the last several years with the emergence of LED (light-emitting diode) lighting. Boat operators must extinguish these types of lights before getting underway on the water.



Marine Patrol will be addressing these issues through education and enforcement. Voluntary compliance is appreciated. Please contact Marine Patrol Headquarters in Gilford at 603-293-2037 with any questions.
Marine Patrol is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 39 Users Say Thank You to Marine Patrol For This Useful Post:
ApS (06-30-2010), beagle (06-30-2010), BroadHopper (06-30-2010), BunchesFormula (09-04-2014), Colby (06-30-2010), colt17 (06-30-2010), GsChinadoll (06-30-2010), ishoot308 (06-30-2010), jmen24 (06-30-2010), Jonas Pilot (06-30-2010), Just Sold (06-30-2010), kauriel (09-04-2014), KPW (09-04-2014), LIforrelaxin (06-30-2010), Misty Blue (07-02-2010), Newbiesaukee (07-05-2010), no-engine (07-03-2010), NoRegrets (07-01-2010), OCDACTIVE (06-30-2010), Pontoon Goon (07-08-2010), RamJet (06-30-2010), Rattlesnake Gal (06-30-2010), Rattlesnake Guy (06-30-2010), Resident 2B (06-30-2010), RLW (06-30-2010), robmac (07-03-2010), Ryan (06-30-2010), SAUGUS BOATER (07-01-2010), sea_n_ski (07-11-2010), Skip (06-30-2010), Skipper of the Sea Que (06-30-2010), Smith Point (07-04-2010), SteveA (07-02-2010), Sue Doe-Nym (06-30-2010), trfour (06-30-2010), upthesaukee (06-30-2010), VitaBene (07-01-2010), VtSteve (06-30-2010), wynndog (09-04-2014)
Old 06-30-2010, 11:14 AM   #2
Skip
Senior Member
 
Skip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Dover, NH
Posts: 1,605
Thanks: 249
Thanked 506 Times in 176 Posts
Smile Thanks Tim!

Thank you for the heads up.

But more importantly, thanks for coming aboard and posting!

I, like many others here, appreciate the fantastic job your Department does with the limited funding provided.

Hopefully you will be able to post and keep us up to date on important Marine Patrol messages in the future.

Skip
Skip is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 12 Users Say Thank You to Skip For This Useful Post:
BroadHopper (06-30-2010), BunchesFormula (09-04-2014), jmen24 (06-30-2010), Jonas Pilot (06-30-2010), Just Sold (06-30-2010), LIforrelaxin (06-30-2010), OCDACTIVE (06-30-2010), RamJet (06-30-2010), Resident 2B (06-30-2010), SAUGUS BOATER (07-01-2010), Slickcraft (06-30-2010), SteveA (07-02-2010)
Old 06-30-2010, 12:17 PM   #3
LIforrelaxin
Senior Member
 
LIforrelaxin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Long Island, not that one, the one on Winnipesaukee
Posts: 2,301
Thanks: 805
Thanked 674 Times in 366 Posts
Default

Lt Dunleavy,

Thank you for the notification, and I hope that you and the department will continue to use this forum to help get the word out about issue such as this in the future.

The Marine Patrol does a wonderful job....
__________________
Life is about how much time you can spend relaxing... I do it on an island that isn't really an island.....
LIforrelaxin is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to LIforrelaxin For This Useful Post:
AC2717 (06-30-2010), Resident 2B (06-30-2010)
Old 06-30-2010, 02:23 PM   #4
bilproject
Senior Member
 
bilproject's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Bear Island/Fort Myers, Fla
Posts: 193
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 1
Thanked 40 Times in 25 Posts
Default Busted for red/green lights on boat house last year

Last August a very nice young MP officer stopped by to tell us that the red and green lights on the end of our boat house were illegal and gave us a copy of the RSA (as far as we can tell they have been there for 30 years or more). We turned them off and changed to yellow as we use them to find the house when we arrive in the early morning hours and I think a lot of people use them to slow for the no wake zone at the North end of Bear (we are about 500ft before the southern beginning. They are on each night from ice out till Nov 1. He said they could be mistaken for a boat and someone could move right or left and hit the island. I said that would be great as he would miss me right or left. The idiot that was navigating solely by what he thought was another boat's light will hit the island anyway.
bilproject is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2010, 02:55 PM   #5
Slickcraft
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Welch Island and West Alton
Posts: 2,595
Thanks: 831
Thanked 1,428 Times in 659 Posts
Default

Thanks for the note Tim.

We have a white light on a post at the end of our island breakwater that we never use (father in law installed it 30 years ago). He used it to find the dock on those dark and stormy nights prior to GPS. I was looking at it the other day thinking of removal.

But a question anyway. As such a white light could be confused with a stern or anchor light, does it fall into the illegal class? Or are only red and green lights at the shore illegal?
Slickcraft is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 06-30-2010, 05:24 PM   #6
hazelnut
Senior Member
 
hazelnut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,348
Blog Entries: 3
Thanks: 504
Thanked 461 Times in 161 Posts
Default

Thanks Tim,

What a great way to get the word out. This has me thinking about any and all lights on my property and I will be walking around checking things out this weekend to make sure we comply.

Thanks again for the heads up and as usual great job!

CH
hazelnut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2010, 06:01 AM   #7
Kamper
Senior Member
 
Kamper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Thornton's Ferry
Posts: 1,207
Thanks: 65
Thanked 145 Times in 109 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slickcraft View Post
... We have a white light on a post ... As such a white light could be confused with a stern or anchor light, does it fall into the illegal class? ...
I'd change it to one of those yellow bug-light bulbs. So far as I know, a constant yellow light has no navigation meaning.

Good luck!
Kamper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2010, 06:24 AM   #8
SAUGUS BOATER
Senior Member
 
SAUGUS BOATER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Saugus Massachusetts
Posts: 84
Thanks: 14
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Thumbs up

Wow,

it's great to have a post directly from Marine Patrol. I noticed it's their first post, and hopefully they will continue to interact directly with boaters on this forum. It seems like the best way to get official information directly to the boaters, and it also seems like a great way to have boating legal questions answered directly by the people who enforce them. (although we do already get some awesome advice on the law from Skip !)
SAUGUS BOATER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2010, 09:11 AM   #9
BroadHopper
Senior Member
 
BroadHopper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Laconia NH / Bozeman MO
Posts: 4,877
Thanks: 2,391
Thanked 869 Times in 606 Posts
Default Thanks for posting!

In the last decade, 'light pollution' from the property owners have been a problem. Not only the green and red navigation lights cause confusion, it is hard to find the flashing light navaid. I use this extensively when navigating on a moonless night. It would be nice that folks shut off unnecessary lights along the shoreline and or use low wattage or yellow bulbs.

A good way to light decks and stairs are those rope lights. It does not 'pollute' as much as spot lights and yard lights.
__________________
Someday may never be an actual day.
BroadHopper is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to BroadHopper For This Useful Post:
Pine Island Guy (07-02-2010)
Old 07-02-2010, 01:39 PM   #10
Misty Blue
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 650
Thanks: 115
Thanked 239 Times in 92 Posts
Default A valuable resource.

Thanks for the post Lt. Tim!

As you may see from the above posts on the forum the members who do not all get to read the local papers can be a valuable tool in "getting the word out" from NHMP when the members are informed.

I would like to compliment your staff on the awsome job that you do maintaining the Aids to Navigation.

Misty Blue.
Misty Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2010, 08:34 PM   #11
VtSteve
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,313
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 230
Thanked 358 Times in 167 Posts
Default

I "used to" be able to navigate from the Meredith Neck, around Stonedam, through to Eagle and the Weirs even on the darkest of nights (except fog). The only trouble used to be the lights at the Weirs, which would interfere with the ability to see other boats on the water. Instead, I'd head down towards Meredith and turn back towards the Weirs.

Some of the boathouses on Governor's Island ha=d neat lights, which I'd also use as landmarks. Wouldn't you know, one weekend his lights were out
VtSteve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2010, 06:52 PM   #12
no-engine
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: West side Winnipesaukee, Lakes Region
Posts: 516
Thanks: 20
Thanked 52 Times in 40 Posts
Default

Totally agree with removal of confusing lights.
no-engine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2010, 09:14 PM   #13
ApS
Senior Member
 
ApS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Winnipesaukee & Florida
Posts: 4,550
Thanks: 993
Thanked 443 Times in 324 Posts
Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroadHopper View Post
"...A good way to light decks and stairs are those rope lights. It does not 'pollute' as much as spot lights and yard lights..."
Great idea!

At a yard sale, I bought a string of rope lights for one dollar. They are red, white and blue. 'Guess I can finally place them prominently downstairs this weekend!
ApS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2010, 03:06 AM   #14
Winnipesaukee
Senior Member
 
Winnipesaukee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 233
Thanks: 14
Thanked 16 Times in 12 Posts
Thumbs down Some dissenting comments and a couple quasi-rhetorical questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamper View Post
I'd change it to one of those yellow bug-light bulbs. So far as I know, a constant yellow light has no navigation meaning.

Good luck!
Close, but solid yellows are used, too.

I already typed this once but for some reason it wouldn't post and I lost it (censorship? ).

Quote:
270-D:7-a Shore Lights. – No person shall display, at any point on the shore visible from the water, any lights that resemble in color or configuration the required navigation lights of any vessel.
Source. 2006, 283:1, eff. Jan. 1, 2007.
"Any vessel". Hmm, what about vessel engaged in towing? I'm sure you won't really see it on Winnipesaukee, but white, red, green, amber, and yellow lights are all used as "navigation lights" on vessels.

So this overbroad law makes all those lights illegal. Examples: any lighthouse, ironically; any light that isn't pink or purple (?) that is on land but visible from the water; Weirs Beach pier; Glendale/NHMP docks.

I am not a waterfront landowner, MP says that they will be enforcing this law? Exactly how so? Does an MPO who believes he sees a light in violation (and he is given a LOT of discretion with this law) think he can tie up to a landowner's dock, walk on his property, knock on the door of the house, and issue a citation? This seems to me to be well out of the jurisdiction of the NHMP. Sounds to me like an unfunded mandate. What if a landowner relies on a set of lights on land to safely navigate back to his docks? Maybe as compensation for shutting them off, the landowner would be given a chartplotter?

I've done a lot of boating at night (maybe...400 hours?), and I have never mistaken lights on land for lights on water or vice versa. Never any close calls, either. The key is knowing the waters one is operating in, slowing down if one sees anything abnormal or questionable, proper use of a compass vs. chart vs. sharp eyes that have had time to adjust to the dark, and doing all of this sober (last but definitely not least...). It really is not that hard.


Quote:
The Marine Patrol would also remind boaters that any light being exhibited in addition to the prescribed navigation lights for their vessel is also illegal.
Are you saying that the use of a spotlight is illegal and will be enforced as such? I have to strongly disagree. While a spotlight can be abused and blind an operator--like what a MPO did to me last summer when he pulled me over, then expected me to safely operate immediately after, I digress--it is an invaluable tool to have at night while navigating.

I think instead of giving waterfront owners these ridiculous mandates, we should be asking boaters to know where they're going. Why is everybody so happy to hear this news? "baaaaaaaaaahhhhhh"
__________________
Sail fast, live slow!
Winnipesaukee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2010, 04:22 AM   #15
Pricestavern
Senior Member
 
Pricestavern's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Long Island (not that one, the one in NY)
Posts: 318
Thanks: 47
Thanked 73 Times in 49 Posts
Default Spotlights

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winnipesaukee View Post
Are you saying that the use of a spotlight is illegal and will be enforced as such? I have to strongly disagree. While a spotlight can be abused and blind an operator--like what a MPO did to me last summer when he pulled me over, then expected me to safely operate immediately after, I digress--it is an invaluable tool to have at night while navigating.
The law is not referencing spotlights. It says that it is illegal to have lights that may be confused as navigation lights exhibited. Using a spotlight intermittently as an aid in navigation is not the same.

Last edited by Pricestavern; 07-08-2010 at 04:28 AM. Reason: Clarity/Accuracy
Pricestavern is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2010, 08:48 AM   #16
Skip
Senior Member
 
Skip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Dover, NH
Posts: 1,605
Thanks: 249
Thanked 506 Times in 176 Posts
Post NHMP Officer's authority pursuant to RSA 270-12-a

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winnipesaukee View Post
... Does an MPO who believes he sees a light in violation (and he is given a LOT of discretion with this law) think he can tie up to a landowner's dock, walk on his property, knock on the door of the house, and issue a citation? This seems to me to be well out of the jurisdiction of the NHMP...
RSA 270:12-a. I, (a) gives the Director of the Division of Safety Services or his duly authorized representatives (NHMP Officers) that exact power.

However I think that in actuality most folks would be warned that the particular lighting was in violation and given an opportunity to fix the problem and a citation would probably only be issued in a case of refusal to comply or gross negligence.

One thing to remember is the civil liability inherent in this issue. There is a statute that prohibits this type of lighting. But if someone gets in an accident and claims that they were confused or misled by a lighting display, the property owner could easily find themselves liable in civil court.

With that in mind I would think that a property owner would welcome a visit and warning by a NHMP Officer if they have lighting that could cause issues.

And as the LT stated in his post, a call to the good folks at NHMP can clear up any confusion or answer specific questions in reference to this particular issue!
Skip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2010, 09:16 AM   #17
jrc
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Hollis/Gilford
Posts: 2,688
Thanks: 33
Thanked 437 Times in 247 Posts
Default

I think this law is much todo about nothing. How many people have lights on shore have red/green lights pretending to be boats, and then how many people really can't tell these red/green lights are on shore and not on a boat? Finally how many people who do make this mistake, cause an accident?

This is a very small number times a very small number times a very small number.

But it's obviously a law and within the MP jurusdiction. If they start issuing citations for every white light on shore, saying that someone might mistake it for an anchor light, they are not going to have much time for anything else.
jrc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2010, 11:16 AM   #18
Winnipesaukee
Senior Member
 
Winnipesaukee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 233
Thanks: 14
Thanked 16 Times in 12 Posts
Default

Quote:
With that in mind I would think that a property owner would welcome a visit and warning by a NHMP Officer if they have lighting that could cause issues.
Again, I am not a waterfront property owner, but I sure wouldn't. Since the "violation" would occur at night, possibly when I am sleeping, I would NOT want anybody on my property and especially approaching my house. A phone call or letter would be much more appropriate.
__________________
Sail fast, live slow!
Winnipesaukee is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Winnipesaukee For This Useful Post:
Buoy #67 (09-05-2014), Pineedles (07-10-2010)
Old 07-17-2010, 02:00 PM   #19
Winnipesaukee
Senior Member
 
Winnipesaukee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 233
Thanks: 14
Thanked 16 Times in 12 Posts
Default

I was out on the water last night, and became quite confused. I noticed several "boats" displaying one white light and one red light, that seemed to be traveling backward!

__________________
Sail fast, live slow!
Winnipesaukee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2010, 02:29 PM   #20
jack1706
Senior Member
 
jack1706's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Ft.Laud.,Fl & Winter Harbor
Posts: 150
Thanks: 40
Thanked 19 Times in 17 Posts
Default

Good one, Winnipesaukee !!!

hahha.................. I saw those same boats .........
jack1706 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2010, 05:16 AM   #21
ApS
Senior Member
 
ApS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Winnipesaukee & Florida
Posts: 4,550
Thanks: 993
Thanked 443 Times in 324 Posts
Cool Keep the bug- and spider- populations down, too...

Quote:
If they start issuing citations for every white light on shore, saying that someone might mistake it for an anchor light, they are not going to have much time for anything else.
Do what I do: extinguish every outdoor light.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winnipesaukee View Post
I was out on the water last night, and became quite confused. I noticed several "boats" displaying one white light and one red light, that seemed to be traveling backward!
Backwards would have a green light displayed.
ApS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2010, 10:07 PM   #22
Rattlesnake Guy
Senior Member
 
Rattlesnake Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,254
Thanks: 423
Thanked 365 Times in 174 Posts
Default

Does this help?
Attached Images
 
Rattlesnake Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2010, 06:35 AM   #23
Sunrise Point
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Meredith Center / Winnisquam
Posts: 250
Thanks: 87
Thanked 34 Times in 21 Posts
Default

I read this thread earlier and was satisfied in my mind that we were not in violation of this rule. We don't light up our dock or have any landscaping lights installed.

Not so! Last week some friends picked me up for a sunset boatride and we ended up anchored about 1/2 mile directly south of our camp. I was amazed to see that a little novelty solar-powered LED dragonfly decoration in one of my flowerpots was visible from that distance. I sat there and watched it as it changed colors (including red and green). At that distance, all you saw was the light and the color, there was no way to tell if it was onshore or off.

Needless to say, as soon as I was dropped off, that dragonfly was moved to the back of the camp.
Sunrise Point is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Sunrise Point For This Useful Post:
Dave R (07-23-2010), jmen24 (07-23-2010), LIforrelaxin (07-23-2010), OCDACTIVE (07-23-2010), SBC (07-29-2010)
Old 08-05-2010, 11:14 AM   #24
GTO
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 983
Thanks: 262
Thanked 297 Times in 139 Posts
Default light change

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skip View Post
RSA 270:12-a. I, (a) gives the Director of the Division of Safety Services or his duly authorized representatives (NHMP Officers) that exact power.

However I think that in actuality most folks would be warned that the particular lighting was in violation and given an opportunity to fix the problem and a citation would probably only be issued in a case of refusal to comply or gross negligence.

One thing to remember is the civil liability inherent in this issue. There is a statute that prohibits this type of lighting. But if someone gets in an accident and claims that they were confused or misled by a lighting display, the property owner could easily find themselves liable in civil court.

With that in mind I would think that a property owner would welcome a visit and warning by a NHMP Officer if they have lighting that could cause issues.

And as the LT stated in his post, a call to the good folks at NHMP can clear up any confusion or answer specific questions in reference to this particular issue!

Marine patrol stopped by our dock last week (after dusk) to inform us of the lights on our dock and give us literature on the law. I informed them (because I read it here first) that we had ordered new domes to replace the green/red and they would be in place in a week or two. They were both very professional and friendly and then they went to the next dock to inform them.
__________________
GTO
GTO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2010, 11:53 AM   #25
Skip
Senior Member
 
Skip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Dover, NH
Posts: 1,605
Thanks: 249
Thanked 506 Times in 176 Posts
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Marine patrol stopped by our dock last week (after dusk) to inform us of the lights on our dock and give us literature on the law. I informed them (because I read it here first) that we had ordered new domes to replace the green/red and they would be in place in a week or two. They were both very professional and friendly and then they went to the next dock to inform them.
Thanks for that first hand update.

Its no surprise to me that you found them professional and friendly. In reality they are trying to do everything humanly possible to get people aware of the issue and comply voluntarily, including their willingness to post here.

Great to hear your story!
Skip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2010, 12:23 PM   #26
DEJ
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 344
Thanks: 252
Thanked 185 Times in 84 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Marine patrol stopped by our dock last week (after dusk) to inform us of the lights on our dock and give us literature on the law. I informed them (because I read it here first) that we had ordered new domes to replace the green/red and they would be in place in a week or two. They were both very professional and friendly and then they went to the next dock to inform them.
Just curious GTO since you know there is an issue with your lights why are you still using them while waiting for your new domes? Now that you stated here in a public forum that you know there is an issue with them could you be held liable if there was an accident? Glad the MP's were nice about it, that has been my experience in the couple of dealings with them over the years.

Skip, comments about liability?
DEJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2010, 12:47 PM   #27
MAXUM
Senior Member
 
MAXUM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Hooksett, NH & Bear Island, NH
Posts: 2,234
Thanks: 203
Thanked 1,448 Times in 592 Posts
Default

Are there any requirements to have either lighting or reflectors on your dock?

I would think reflectors might be a good practice.
MAXUM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2010, 01:00 PM   #28
Skip
Senior Member
 
Skip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Dover, NH
Posts: 1,605
Thanks: 249
Thanked 506 Times in 176 Posts
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by DEJ View Post
Just curious GTO since you know there is an issue with your lights why are you still using them while waiting for your new domes? Now that you stated here in a public forum that you know there is an issue with them could you be held liable if there was an accident? Glad the MP's were nice about it, that has been my experience in the couple of dealings with them over the years.

Skip, comments about liability?
There's that old saying that goes something like this; "you can be sued by anybody, at any time, for any thing!".

As always intent and "state of mind" are important factors in determining culpability and responsibility.

Two things come to mind:

I have never heard or read of a verifiable accident that has occured on Winni due to the fact that a boater was intentionally or accidentally led astray by shore lights. But I do believe the potential does exist and that is why the NHMP is taking a proactive approach to minimize or eliminate the possibility.

But with that said, if a government official has spoken to me on the record about a potential problem, I will assume that there is a record of that conversation. Hence, I myself would douse the lights until the replacement parts arrived.
Skip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2010, 01:28 PM   #29
GTO
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 983
Thanks: 262
Thanked 297 Times in 139 Posts
Default read again...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DEJ View Post
Just curious GTO since you know there is an issue with your lights why are you still using them while waiting for your new domes? Now that you stated here in a public forum that you know there is an issue with them could you be held liable if there was an accident? Glad the MP's were nice about it, that has been my experience in the couple of dealings with them over the years.

Skip, comments about liability?


Never said I was still using them.
__________________
GTO
GTO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2010, 01:39 PM   #30
Gatto Nero
Senior Member
 
Gatto Nero's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Isola Gatto Nero
Posts: 693
Thanks: 158
Thanked 261 Times in 79 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Marine patrol stopped by our dock last week (after dusk) to inform us of the lights on our dock and give us literature on the law. I informed them (because I read it here first) that we had ordered new domes to replace the green/red and they would be in place in a week or two. They were both very professional and friendly and then they went to the next dock to inform them.
I'm curious, GTO. Did he mention anything about the dock light that illuminates the NW quadrant of the lake?
__________________
La vita č buona su Isola Gatto Nero

Last edited by Gatto Nero; 08-05-2010 at 05:19 PM.
Gatto Nero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2010, 02:30 PM   #31
DEJ
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 344
Thanks: 252
Thanked 185 Times in 84 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Never said I was still using them.
Good response and a good way to CYA.
DEJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2010, 03:32 PM   #32
Irrigation Guy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Moultonborough, NH
Posts: 484
Thanks: 89
Thanked 138 Times in 72 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Never said I was still using them.
I think the point he was trying to make is that he was surprised you were still using them until MP stopped by even though you were aware they were in violation of the law.

Irrigation Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2010, 05:30 PM   #33
GTO
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 983
Thanks: 262
Thanked 297 Times in 139 Posts
Default read again

Quote:
Originally Posted by LocalRealtor View Post
I think the point he was trying to make is that he was surprised you were still using them until MP stopped by even though you were aware they were in violation of the law.

Nowhere did I write I was using them before they came or after they arrived. I said MP came at dusk. Never said the lights were on at any time.
__________________
GTO
GTO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2010, 05:32 PM   #34
GTO
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 983
Thanks: 262
Thanked 297 Times in 139 Posts
Default hello gatto

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatto Nero View Post
I'm curious, GTO. Did he mention anything about the dock light that illuminates the NW quadrant of the lake?
Give me a break on that one Gatto, I need a beacon to guide me back to the docks after the fireworks.....plus I slipped them both a 20 and they turned the other way
__________________
GTO
GTO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2010, 07:43 PM   #35
KTO
Senior Member
 
KTO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Meredith, NH
Posts: 390
Thanks: 27
Thanked 114 Times in 25 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatto Nero View Post
I'm curious, GTO. Did he mention anything about the dock light that illuminates the NW quadrant of the lake?
He probably thought it was the sun setting...
KTO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2010, 09:21 PM   #36
Irrigation Guy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Moultonborough, NH
Posts: 484
Thanks: 89
Thanked 138 Times in 72 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Nowhere did I write I was using them before they came or after they arrived. I said MP came at dusk. Never said the lights were on at any time.
Not picking on you....really.....but how would they know you had them if they weren't illuminated and it was dusk?

I wouldn't think it illegal to possess such lights....but illuminating them....well....

Anyway, ......I'll move on....thanks for playing.
Irrigation Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2010, 07:33 AM   #37
GTO
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 983
Thanks: 262
Thanked 297 Times in 139 Posts
Default my guess....

Quote:
Originally Posted by LocalRealtor View Post
Not picking on you....really.....but how would they know you had them if they weren't illuminated and it was dusk?

I wouldn't think it illegal to possess such lights....but illuminating them....well....

Anyway, ......I'll move on....thanks for playing.

They probably noticed the red and green domes (easily visable) during the day and then didn't make their rounds to educate everyone until dusk...that would be my best guess
__________________
GTO
GTO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2010, 09:38 AM   #38
Gatto Nero
Senior Member
 
Gatto Nero's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Isola Gatto Nero
Posts: 693
Thanks: 158
Thanked 261 Times in 79 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
They probably noticed the red and green domes (easily visable) during the day and then didn't make their rounds to educate everyone until dusk...that would be my best guess
Yeah, they saw the domes during the day! Yeah, that's the ticket
__________________
La vita č buona su Isola Gatto Nero
Gatto Nero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2010, 11:20 AM   #39
GTO
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 983
Thanks: 262
Thanked 297 Times in 139 Posts
Default lol...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatto Nero View Post
Yeah, they saw the domes during the day! Yeah, that's the ticket
As DEJ mentioned....CYA. Anyways, I thought after seeing that crane in front of your place for a couple of weeks, that you were building that rock seawall high enough to block the lights from around the lake
__________________
GTO
GTO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2010, 11:38 AM   #40
Excalibur
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Gilford,NH is where I would like to be and Southborough, MA is where I have to be
Posts: 79
Thanks: 11
Thanked 8 Times in 1 Post
Default My guess

I am sure during the week they checked out the lake front properties of a particular area and then they needed to address the owners when they where available. A in person visit is much more costly then a form letter, but it does add a personnel touch.

On another note, A marine patrol vessel was pulling in and out of properties in the forty islands and I asked them what they where doing. The marine patrol was identifying ways to enter the property if there was a emergency. This way they would be able to avoid some of the underwater obstacles in front of some homes.

I thought that was very commendable
Excalibur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2010, 04:53 PM   #41
Irrigation Guy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Moultonborough, NH
Posts: 484
Thanks: 89
Thanked 138 Times in 72 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatto Nero View Post
Yeah, they saw the domes during the day! Yeah, that's the ticket
Good answer, Good answer .....Richard Dawson.
Irrigation Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2010, 08:36 AM   #42
Skip
Senior Member
 
Skip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Dover, NH
Posts: 1,605
Thanks: 249
Thanked 506 Times in 176 Posts
Post Message is getting out....

Coming through the Alton Bay area last night on Route 11 I noticed that several prominent boathouses that used to display red and green lights (similar to navigation lights) had changed bulbs. They were now amber in color.

This was a change since my last trip through there about a month ago.

Apparently the NHMP is indeed getting the word out this summer....
Skip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2010, 07:49 PM   #43
RTTOOL
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Meredith,NH.-Nashua,NH
Posts: 82
Thanks: 78
Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by skip View Post
coming through the alton bay area last night on route 11 i noticed that several prominent boathouses that used to display red and green lights (similar to navigation lights) had changed bulbs. They were now amber in color.

This was a change since my last trip through there about a month ago.

Apparently the nhmp is indeed getting the word out this summer....
apparently nhmp has one rule for people to change their lights.
The law is no similar to boat lights. What about bridges with the
lights there is on exception to the rule i see...
RTTOOL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2010, 10:47 AM   #44
John A. Birdsall
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Norwich, CT
Posts: 599
Thanks: 27
Thanked 51 Times in 35 Posts
Default lights

We had a neighbor that had a new boat many years ago, If I recall it was a Grady White. Nice boat. However the green light and red light were reversed and after several comings and goings, We told him one night. He went home turned on his boat lights and was out with a screwdriver to fix the problem. so has anyone else mixed up there lights when replacing a bulb or something?
John A. Birdsall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2010, 05:35 AM   #45
Kamper
Senior Member
 
Kamper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Thornton's Ferry
Posts: 1,207
Thanks: 65
Thanked 145 Times in 109 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RTTOOL View Post
... What about bridges with the
lights there is on exception to the rule i see...
Under Federal rules, bridges are lighted same as a channel (red right returnning from the sea), and piers same as a vessel.

As far as I can tell State rules don't require anything. Those lights under bridges are advisory and I have only seen them on Winni. They may be on other places but I haven't seen them on the rivers I have been on. From the posts here it looks like NHMP is discouraging anything too complex on docks.
Kamper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2014, 02:52 PM   #46
FL Boatbuilder
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Accent Lights

Just wondering--if you display blue accent lights while at anchor, you're not in violation of the law? If i read Lt Dunleavy's post correctly, it's only a problem to have those lights on in addition to your required NAV lights when you're underway.
FL Boatbuilder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2014, 03:05 PM   #47
Phantom
Senior Member
 
Phantom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hudson, Ma / Gilford
Posts: 1,785
Thanks: 353
Thanked 524 Times in 300 Posts
Default

This was addressed in another thread earlier this year that I started asking if I could basically be running at night with my under deck (blue) lighting switched on.

After a lot of debate (forum style) I simply directed the question to MP in am email.
http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...ad.php?t=17536


The answer to your question is your NOT in violation while at anchor !

The flip side of that is that emphatically you cannot be "underway" with anything other than your require navigation lights on (this includes interior lighting).



.
__________________
A bad day on the Big Lake (although I've never had one) - Still beats a day at the office!!
Phantom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2014, 08:55 AM   #48
Tired of Waiting
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 519
Thanks: 111
Thanked 258 Times in 107 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom View Post
This was addressed in another thread earlier this year that I started asking if I could basically be running at night with my under deck (blue) lighting switched on.

After a lot of debate (forum style) I simply directed the question to MP in am email.
http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...ad.php?t=17536


The answer to your question is your NOT in violation while at anchor !

The flip side of that is that emphatically you cannot be "underway" with anything other than your require navigation lights on (this includes interior lighting).



.
This part I have to question. I have dash lights, navigation GPS etc. that are lit.
Cuddy cabin lights that show through windows. You telling me they say that none of these can be on whilst I am navigating??

Need a reference law number to verify.

ToW
Tired of Waiting is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2014, 10:14 AM   #49
ishoot308
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Gilford, NH / Welch Island
Posts: 4,429
Thanks: 1,600
Thanked 3,238 Times in 1,261 Posts
Default Interesting...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom View Post
This was addressed in another thread earlier this year that I started asking if I could basically be running at night with my under deck (blue) lighting switched on.

After a lot of debate (forum style) I simply directed the question to MP in am email.
http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...ad.php?t=17536


The answer to your question is your NOT in violation while at anchor !

The flip side of that is that emphatically you cannot be "underway" with anything other than your require navigation lights on (this includes interior lighting).



.

I had my skirt lights on while at anchor and watching the fireworks display in Wolfeboro bay. Marine Patrol pulled up along side and very nicely informed me that I had to turn them off and they were in fact illegal to use in the state of NH. I specifically asked him if it was illegal even though I was at anchor and not underway. He informed that they are not to be turned on at anytime while in NH waters...

FWIW;

Dan
__________________
It's Always Sunny On Welch Island!!
ishoot308 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2014, 10:17 AM   #50
BroadHopper
Senior Member
 
BroadHopper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Laconia NH / Bozeman MO
Posts: 4,877
Thanks: 2,391
Thanked 869 Times in 606 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tired of Waiting View Post
This part I have to question. I have dash lights, navigation GPS etc. that are lit.
Cuddy cabin lights that show through windows. You telling me they say that none of these can be on whilst I am navigating??

Need a reference law number to verify.

ToW
A number of cabin cruiser owners as well as I were pulled over and politely asked to turn out the cockpit and cabin lights while underway. This was not recently and I know of no one that got a citation.

Although they did not mention dash or equipment lights.
__________________
Someday may never be an actual day.

Last edited by BroadHopper; 09-05-2014 at 10:18 AM. Reason: Clarification
BroadHopper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2014, 10:22 AM   #51
4Fun
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 283
Thanks: 1
Thanked 65 Times in 38 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroadHopper View Post
A number of cabin cruiser owners as well as I were pulled over and politely asked to turn out the cockpit and cabin lights while underway. This was not recently and I know of no one that got a citation.

Although they did not mention dash or equipment lights.
I beleive on most boats the dash lights are on the same circuit/switch as the nav lights.
4Fun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2014, 12:12 PM   #52
Orion
Senior Member
 
Orion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Cow Island
Posts: 904
Thanks: 554
Thanked 176 Times in 88 Posts
Default Night vision is literally critical when night boating

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Fun View Post
I beleive on most boats the dash lights are on the same circuit/switch as the nav lights.
You are correct. That is why I added a separate toggle switch to turn off those blinding dash lights. All boats should be so-equipped as very often those gauges also reflect in the windshield. I just flick it on momentarily to check status once in a while. I probably should have made it a dimmer switch instead of a toggle, but it was one I had already. Any marina could easily do this for you.
Orion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2014, 01:20 PM   #53
BroadHopper
Senior Member
 
BroadHopper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Laconia NH / Bozeman MO
Posts: 4,877
Thanks: 2,391
Thanked 869 Times in 606 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orion View Post
You are correct. That is why I added a separate toggle switch to turn off those blinding dash lights. All boats should be so-equipped as very often those gauges also reflect in the windshield. I just flick it on momentarily to check status once in a while. I probably should have made it a dimmer switch instead of a toggle, but it was one I had already. Any marina could easily do this for you.
Most high end boats and all performance boats come with a separate dash switch. I do what Orion do to keep my visibility intact. High Performance boats has the white light attach to the stern and at the windshield toward the bow in order to prevent the white light blinding you.
__________________
Someday may never be an actual day.
BroadHopper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2014, 06:19 AM   #54
Phantom
Senior Member
 
Phantom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hudson, Ma / Gilford
Posts: 1,785
Thanks: 353
Thanked 524 Times in 300 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ishoot308 View Post
I had my skirt lights on while at anchor and watching the fireworks display in Wolfeboro bay. Marine Patrol pulled up along side and very nicely informed me that I had to turn them off and they were in fact illegal to use in the state of NH. I specifically asked him if it was illegal even though I was at anchor and not underway. He informed that they are not to be turned on at anytime while in NH waters...

FWIW;

Dan
That is a complete contradiction to what was mailed to me...... See below, this is the email I received (less my personal info- name address, etc)

The key phrase here is "while underway"



July 3, 2014

Dear Mr xxxx
I checked with one of our Sergeants before responding to your question. He stated that the law is very clear on this and they do not allow any lights on a boat while it is underway OTHER than the approved navigational lights.


Bruce A. Klinger - Communications Specialist II
New Hampshire State Police - Marine Patrol Bureau

Headquarters - 31 Dock Road Gilford, NH 03249
603-293-2037 Fax @ HQ: 293-0096

Communications – IPOC
110 Smokey Bear Blvd Concord, NH 03301
www.marinepatrol.nh.gov
__________________
A bad day on the Big Lake (although I've never had one) - Still beats a day at the office!!
Phantom is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Phantom For This Useful Post:
ishoot308 (09-06-2014)
Old 09-06-2014, 08:10 AM   #55
Tired of Waiting
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 519
Thanks: 111
Thanked 258 Times in 107 Posts
Default And the Law/rules say

Here is a copy of CHAPTER Saf-C 400 WATERCRAFT SAFETY RULES,

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rule.../saf-c400.html

See red paragraph.



Saf-C 403.15 Lights on all Motorboats.



(a) All motorboats, including boats propelled by outboard motors, shall while under way, carry lights with distances of visibility on clear nights shown as follows:



(1) For class A and I motorboats:



a. A bright white light aft to show all around the horizon; and



b. A combined light on the fore part of the vessel and lower than the white light aft, showing green to starboard and red to port, so fixed as to throw the light from right ahead to 2 points abaft the beam of their respective sides; and



(2) For class II and III motorboats:



a. A bright white light in the fore part of the vessel as near the stem as practicable, so constructed as to show an unbroken light over an arc of the horizon of 20 points of the compass, so fixed as to throw the light 10 points on each side of the vessel, namely, from straight ahead to 2 points abaft the beam on either side;



b. A bright white light aft to show all around the horizon, and higher than the white light forward;



c. On the starboard side, a green light so constructed as to show an unbroken light over an arc of the horizon of 10 points of the compass, so fixed as to throw the light from straight ahead to 2 points abaft the beam on the starboard side;



d. On the port side, a red light so constructed as to show an unbroken light over an arc of the horizon of 10 points of the compass, so fixed as to throw the light from straight ahead to 2 points abaft the beam on the port side; and



e. The side lights shall be fitted with inboard screens of sufficient height and so set as to prevent these lights from being seen across the bow.



(b) Each motorboat shall carry only the combined light or separate side lights as appropriate to its class. Additionally, one white light at the stern so constructed that it shall show an unbroken light over an area of the horizon of 12 points of the compass so fixed as to show the light 6 points from right aft on each side of the vessel.



(c) When propelled by both sail and machinery a motorboat shall carry the lights required by this section for a motorboat propelled by machinery only.



(d) Every white light prescribed by this section shall be of such character as to be visible at a distance of at least 2 miles. Every colored light prescribed by this section shall be of such character as to be visible at a distance of at least one mile. The word "visible" in this paragraph, when applied to lights, means visible on a dark night with clear atmosphere.



(e) Any motorboat may carry and exhibit the lights required by the federal requirements for preventing collisions at sea, 1960, International Rules of the Road, federal act of September 24, 1963, 33 USC 1051-1053, 1061-1094, 77 Stat. 194-210, as amended, in lieu of the lights required by this section.



Hope this helps us all


ToW
Tired of Waiting is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2014, 02:02 PM   #56
Webbsatwinni
Senior Member
 
Webbsatwinni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Lebanon Ct and Rattlesnake Island Since 2007
Posts: 610
Thanks: 180
Thanked 137 Times in 72 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marine Patrol View Post

The Marine Patrol would also remind boaters that any light being exhibited in addition to the prescribed navigation lights for their vessel is also illegal. After-market accent light fixtures have become very popular the last several years with the emergence of LED (light-emitting diode) lighting. Boat operators must extinguish these types of lights before getting underway on the water.


Marine Patrol will be addressing these issues through education and enforcement. Voluntary compliance is appreciated. Please contact Marine Patrol Headquarters in Gilford at 603-293-2037 with any questions.
This is a portion is the law that I disagree with, there have been many times where the stern light blends in with the shore and is not visible until you are upon the other boat. If a small degree of accessory lights were allowed, it would, in my opinion, help distinguish a boat from the shoreline.

It does also raise an interesting question that I have not seen raised, do the MT Washington and the Wolfes Tavern (the paddle boat) have exemptions from this law? They have a tremendous amount of additional lights displayed while underway in comparison to the cockpit lights of pleasure boats. Don't get me worn, I love seeing those and enjoy how they look at night, I am just not sure how effective this part of the law is and would like to hear other boaters opinions.
Webbsatwinni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2014, 02:32 PM   #57
BroadHopper
Senior Member
 
BroadHopper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Laconia NH / Bozeman MO
Posts: 4,877
Thanks: 2,391
Thanked 869 Times in 606 Posts
Default Commercial vessels

I don't see any exceptions for commercial vessels. Perhap the Mt Washington fleet and the Bell are violating the law?
__________________
Someday may never be an actual day.
BroadHopper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2014, 02:42 PM   #58
Webbsatwinni
Senior Member
 
Webbsatwinni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Lebanon Ct and Rattlesnake Island Since 2007
Posts: 610
Thanks: 180
Thanked 137 Times in 72 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroadHopper View Post
I don't see any exceptions for commercial vessels. Perhap the Mt Washington fleet and the Bell are violating the law?
Or the law is improperly defined?
Webbsatwinni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2014, 08:42 PM   #59
B-Laps
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 15
Thanks: 2
Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroadHopper View Post
I don't see any exceptions for commercial vessels. Perhap the Mt Washington fleet and the Bell are violating the law?
Actually the rules posted only apply to Class A,I,II and III boats which covers boats up to 65 feet in length.


In addition the definition of boat is

Quote:
270-D:1 Definitions. – In this chapter:
I. "Boat'' means every description of watercraft other than seaplanes, capable of being used or used as a means of transportation on the water and which is primarily used for noncommercial purposes, or leased, rented, loaned or chartered to another for such use.
Seems to me that the Mt Washington or Winni Belle don't have to abide by any laws referring to "Boats"
B-Laps is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2014, 07:25 AM   #60
BroadHopper
Senior Member
 
BroadHopper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Laconia NH / Bozeman MO
Posts: 4,877
Thanks: 2,391
Thanked 869 Times in 606 Posts
Default Leased. rental

So that is why the leased pontoons are cruising around with their dock lights glaring!
__________________
Someday may never be an actual day.
BroadHopper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2014, 07:28 AM   #61
Webbsatwinni
Senior Member
 
Webbsatwinni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Lebanon Ct and Rattlesnake Island Since 2007
Posts: 610
Thanks: 180
Thanked 137 Times in 72 Posts
Default

Aren't those boats considered charters as they sell tickets to passengers?
Webbsatwinni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2014, 10:32 AM   #62
jrc
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Hollis/Gilford
Posts: 2,688
Thanks: 33
Thanked 437 Times in 247 Posts
Default

The law is being interpreted to give the MP the most opportunity to stop suspicious boats at night. Just obey the MP guy when he says "turn off those cabin lights". What he is really saying is, are you sober enough to understand me?

Its not right, but until you want to fight it in court just obey.
jrc is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to jrc For This Useful Post:
LIforrelaxin (09-11-2014)
Old 09-09-2014, 03:33 PM   #63
Webbsatwinni
Senior Member
 
Webbsatwinni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Lebanon Ct and Rattlesnake Island Since 2007
Posts: 610
Thanks: 180
Thanked 137 Times in 72 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrc View Post
The law is being interpreted to give the MP the most opportunity to stop suspicious boats at night. Just obey the MP guy when he says "turn off those cabin lights". What he is really saying is, are you sober enough to understand me?

Its not right, but until you want to fight it in court just obey.
So we are all ok with that? It's not enforced fairly, and we are in fear of getting pulled over because it's vague?
Webbsatwinni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2014, 06:10 PM   #64
Kamper
Senior Member
 
Kamper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Thornton's Ferry
Posts: 1,207
Thanks: 65
Thanked 145 Times in 109 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Webbsatwinni View Post
So we are all ok with that? It's not enforced fairly, and we are in fear of getting pulled over because it's vague?

I'm not okay with that. At the moment it's a case of "You get the justice you can afford." .
Kamper is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Kamper For This Useful Post:
Webbsatwinni (09-10-2014)
Old 09-09-2014, 06:56 PM   #65
TiltonBB
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Gilford, NH and Florida
Posts: 1,597
Thanks: 242
Thanked 946 Times in 386 Posts
Default Insufficient lighting

In my opinion the lighting laws need to be changed.

Anyone who has boated at night will tell you that it is sometimes difficult to see boats and that some boat lighting blends in with the shore. A few more lights on the side of a boat similar to the marker lights of a large truck would help a lot.

I had a flybridge cruiser on the lake for many years. After too many close calls at night, when approaching boats did not seem to see my boat, I decided to leave some of the cabin lights on at night. It eliminated the problem.

I would respectfully suggest that unless additional lighting was a hazard to navigation it should be ignored by the Marine Patrol. Citations and warnings should be used to solve a problem, not generate activity and revenue.
TiltonBB is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to TiltonBB For This Useful Post:
chasedawg (09-09-2014), Dave R (09-09-2014), Orion (09-09-2014), Resident 2B (09-10-2014), Webbsatwinni (09-10-2014), wifi (09-11-2014)
Old 09-10-2014, 07:10 AM   #66
Webbsatwinni
Senior Member
 
Webbsatwinni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Lebanon Ct and Rattlesnake Island Since 2007
Posts: 610
Thanks: 180
Thanked 137 Times in 72 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TiltonBB View Post
I would respectfully suggest that unless additional lighting was a hazard to navigation it should be ignored by the Marine Patrol. Citations and warnings should be used to solve a problem, not generate activity and revenue.
Agreed, and to me cockpit lighting helps visibility and doesn't hurt navigation as in most cases, its lower in the cockpit and not like a docking light that shines directly at other boats.

Off topic:
I have also heard rumor that the noise ordnance is now being tested at the scene and is you are over the limit at idle, they tow your boat, how can that be???
Webbsatwinni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2014, 11:30 AM   #67
Seaplane Pilot
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 885
Thanks: 314
Thanked 495 Times in 190 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Webbsatwinni View Post
Agreed, and to me cockpit lighting helps visibility and doesn't hurt navigation as in most cases, its lower in the cockpit and not like a docking light that shines directly at other boats.

Off topic:
I have also heard rumor that the noise ordnance is now being tested at the scene and is you are over the limit at idle, they tow your boat, how can that be???
Guilty until proven innocent - the NH way. Live Free or Die
Seaplane Pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2014, 03:45 PM   #68
BroadHopper
Senior Member
 
BroadHopper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Laconia NH / Bozeman MO
Posts: 4,877
Thanks: 2,391
Thanked 869 Times in 606 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Webbsatwinni View Post
Off topic:
I have also heard rumor that the noise ordnance is now being tested at the scene and is you are over the limit at idle, they tow your boat, how can that be???
I have wet mufflers. At low speed and when the motor is cold there is very little water passing through the devices. I have more noise at idle. But at planning speed and higher the water passing through really quiet down the exhaust. I have a piece of paper that says I passed back in the 90's when the law says to test at WOT. Now your telling me the laws have changed and I am not grandfathered?
__________________
Someday may never be an actual day.
BroadHopper is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to BroadHopper For This Useful Post:
trfour (09-10-2014)
Old 09-10-2014, 05:21 PM   #69
Resident 2B
Senior Member
 
Resident 2B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Bradenton, FL and North Shore, MA
Posts: 1,332
Thanks: 944
Thanked 298 Times in 151 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroadHopper View Post
I have wet mufflers. At low speed and when the motor is cold there is very little water passing through the devices. I have more noise at idle. But at planning speed and higher the water passing through really quiet down the exhaust. I have a piece of paper that says I passed back in the 90's when the law says to test at WOT. Now your telling me the laws have changed and I am not grandfathered?
One thing that makes me unhappy about NH is how they change laws or application of the laws without any hearings or notice. Not at all customer friendly.

R2B
Resident 2B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2014, 10:29 PM   #70
Descant
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Merrimack and Welch Island
Posts: 1,901
Thanks: 573
Thanked 619 Times in 380 Posts
Default Hearings?

The legislature holds lots of hearings, but they're held from January to May when they are in session. Belonging to an association, NHLAKES, Gilford Islands, Bear Island, Marine Trades Assoc., etc will put you on a mailing list. Even if you live out of state in the winter you can provide input through your association or through the Rep. or Senator where you spend your lake time.
Descant is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Descant For This Useful Post:
Resident 2B (09-11-2014)
Old 09-11-2014, 02:55 PM   #71
LIforrelaxin
Senior Member
 
LIforrelaxin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Long Island, not that one, the one on Winnipesaukee
Posts: 2,301
Thanks: 805
Thanked 674 Times in 366 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Webbsatwinni View Post
Off topic:
I have also heard rumor that the noise ordnance is now being tested at the scene and is you are over the limit at idle, they tow your boat, how can that be???
This is surely just what you state a rumor. The problem with rumors is that they create confusion.

Now they may test your idle noise level to verify a suspicion that you are over the law at idle. That I will believe. And if you are over the legal limit at idle, they will probably ask you to get your boat off the water until a formal test can be conducted both at speed and at idle. This also gives you the time to correct the problem, so that hopefully when you show up for the test you have a boat that will legally pass.

I doubt very much that they would tow your boat. The Marine Patrol will not even tow a distressed boat, unless it is in immediate danger.

Now what may have been witnessed is a repeat offender of the law, getting caught. If that is the case then I would suspect that they have the right to impound the boat, to prove that the boat was brought into compliance, for a date at some point, and was then found to have been tampered with and brought out of compliance currently. This however is conjecture on my part....

Rumors are Rumors. If there is truly concern about this happening, I would suggest someone correspond directly with the Marine Patrol.
__________________
Life is about how much time you can spend relaxing... I do it on an island that isn't really an island.....
LIforrelaxin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2014, 03:02 PM   #72
LIforrelaxin
Senior Member
 
LIforrelaxin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Long Island, not that one, the one on Winnipesaukee
Posts: 2,301
Thanks: 805
Thanked 674 Times in 366 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TiltonBB View Post
In my opinion the lighting laws need to be changed.
There is no doubt the law governing recreational boat lighting need to be revisited. Cockpit and cabin lights are usually not a problem. However the now popular underwater accent lights can be an issue, as they can drowned out the nav lights from a distance. I have noticed this several times this summer. As for dashboard instrument lights, they are just like instrument cluster lights in a car... they are not a problem, unless the effect your night vision. Even the rules for cars don't detail the instrument cluster lights.

And oh by the way that is the difference when you look at the Mount, it is a commercial Vessel and laws are different.
__________________
Life is about how much time you can spend relaxing... I do it on an island that isn't really an island.....
LIforrelaxin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2014, 05:49 AM   #73
Orion
Senior Member
 
Orion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Cow Island
Posts: 904
Thanks: 554
Thanked 176 Times in 88 Posts
Default Totally agree!

Quote:
Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin View Post
There is no doubt the law governing recreational boat lighting need to be revisited. Cockpit and cabin lights are usually not a problem. However the now popular underwater accent lights can be an issue, as they can drowned out the nav lights from a distance. I have noticed this several times this summer. As for dashboard instrument lights, they are just like instrument cluster lights in a car... they are not a problem, unless the effect your night vision. Even the rules for cars don't detail the instrument cluster lights.

And oh by the way that is the difference when you look at the Mount, it is a commercial Vessel and laws are different.
One moonless dark evening, I detected a boat in my path solely by the dash lights as he didn't have ANY nav lights! With the availability and now lower cost of LED lighting, I would like to see an acceptable standard allowing for a lighted side stripe, perhaps running the length of the boat, maybe in the green and red colors per the bow light rules. With the low power consumption of LEDs they could even be tied into the ignition to operate any time the motor is operating and the shifter is in gear (sort of like daytime running lights in a car). I often see boaters who put their anchor light on instead of their nav lights or forget to put any on at all.
Orion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2014, 08:41 AM   #74
Webbsatwinni
Senior Member
 
Webbsatwinni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Lebanon Ct and Rattlesnake Island Since 2007
Posts: 610
Thanks: 180
Thanked 137 Times in 72 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroadHopper View Post
Now your telling me the laws have changed and I am not grandfathered?
I have the same situation on the mufflers, I have never been tested. I will not go into who, but this is what I was told by someone that was stopped, tested and if not for being near their dock, was told they were getting fined towed and now allowed on the lake until its fixed and retested.
Webbsatwinni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2014, 09:10 AM   #75
tis
Senior Member
 
tis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,766
Thanks: 473
Thanked 844 Times in 592 Posts
Default

Broadhopper, what Webbsat said is exactly what I was told. These people were stopped despite the fact that they had the paper from a previous experience. That means our paper could be no good either. We always carry it in the boat with us but seems like now it might be just a useless piece of paper. I didn't hear anything about the towing though.
tis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2014, 10:17 AM   #76
AC2717
Senior Member
 
AC2717's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Maynard, MA & Paugus Bay
Posts: 2,158
Thanks: 590
Thanked 258 Times in 189 Posts
Default playing Devil's Advocate

What I don't understand is how Marine patrol has jurisdiction on land. If they have no jurisdiction on a boat once it is tied up to private property (dock), how do they have the right to tell me what to do/use on land?
__________________
Capt. of the "No Worries"
AC2717 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2014, 07:50 AM   #77
Kamper
Senior Member
 
Kamper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Thornton's Ferry
Posts: 1,207
Thanks: 65
Thanked 145 Times in 109 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AC2717 View Post
What I don't understand is how Marine patrol has jurisdiction on land. ... ?
To specifically answer your question, It's written into the statute.

There was a lengthy thread a few years ago where it was explained that almost any NH sworn police officer can act if observing a crime. Woodsy provided insight on the details.
Kamper is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Kamper For This Useful Post:
AC2717 (09-15-2014)
Old 09-15-2014, 08:04 AM   #78
AC2717
Senior Member
 
AC2717's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Maynard, MA & Paugus Bay
Posts: 2,158
Thanks: 590
Thanked 258 Times in 189 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamper View Post
To specifically answer your question, It's written into the statute.

There was a lengthy thread a few years ago where it was explained that almost any NH sworn police officer can act if observing a crime. Woodsy provided insight on the details.
without going into detail and also a search, is it s crime? (again just looking for insight, not questioning
__________________
Capt. of the "No Worries"
AC2717 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2014, 11:50 AM   #79
LIforrelaxin
Senior Member
 
LIforrelaxin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Long Island, not that one, the one on Winnipesaukee
Posts: 2,301
Thanks: 805
Thanked 674 Times in 366 Posts
Default

I have decided to send a letter to the Marine Patrol, for clarification on how noise violations are dealt with. I will post the reply here when I receive it.

As for a certificate showing that you passed the noise certification. I would think after a year or so it would not be valid. Mainly because, there is no way to know how the boat has or hasn't been modified in that time. I am not saying that it isn't worth keeping on the vessel, because, an officer may look at it and decided that maybe it isn't as loud as he initially thought. But just like we have cars checked yearly for safety... Things can and do change.
__________________
Life is about how much time you can spend relaxing... I do it on an island that isn't really an island.....
LIforrelaxin is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to LIforrelaxin For This Useful Post:
BroadHopper (09-15-2014)
Old 09-15-2014, 01:09 PM   #80
Rich
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Derry / Gilford
Posts: 1,075
Thanks: 32
Thanked 268 Times in 183 Posts
Default

Perhaps start a new thread? I thought this was was about lighting.
__________________
Rich
Don't listen to me, obviously I don't understand what I'm talking about!
Let's help each other save time and money: WinniGas.com
Rich is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:13 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.

This page was generated in 0.44367 seconds