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Old 11-17-2019, 07:00 AM   #101
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Is it even legal to be out on the lake with a canoe, kayak or sup after dark ?
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Old 11-17-2019, 07:54 AM   #102
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Default Funeral Arrangements?

Is any information available yet re funeral arrangements for Hal and Jim? 🐻
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Old 11-17-2019, 08:00 AM   #103
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Is it even legal to be out on the lake with a canoe, kayak or sup after dark ?
Good question but if I was out in my canoe after dark I would be hugging the shoreline for sure. Cant really think of any reason to be out there in a canoe or kayak when its dark tho. Then again, the most dangerous thing I want to do these days is ride my bike down a dirt road during the day.
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Old 11-17-2019, 09:11 AM   #104
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Is it even legal to be out on the lake with a canoe, kayak or sup after dark ?
Yes it is legal, with an "all around white light". Not nessisaraly a good idea, but legal.
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Old 11-17-2019, 09:42 AM   #105
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Here on Lake Winnipesaukee, 99.44%-of all the motorboats keep serious attention to staying outside the spar marker buoys because there could be shallow rocks along the shoreline areas which makes for safe paddling close along the shore, within the spar markers.

Out in the motorboat zones, you can get hit on a sunny day just because the motor boater never saw you, and was not expecting a kayak/sup to be there. Motorboats and jet skis can travel along at 45-mph ..... while kayaks and sups paddle along at 3-mph.

Is similar to a motorcycle not being seen by a car driver; ...... say-hey ..... I never even seen it, there?
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Old 11-17-2019, 09:42 AM   #106
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Itís very much not a good idea. Iíve had too many boats come too close during the day. And I have bright orange kayaks to help be seen better. A little white light is not enough. That is a disaster waiting to happen.
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Old 11-17-2019, 11:15 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by fatlazyless View Post
For paddling or rowing at dusk, or at night, www.topkayaker.com at 1805 Rt-16 in Center Ossipee NH has a number of high quality, battery powered l.e.d. navigation lights which show brighter than the old incandescent bulb lights. In the Safety Gear section...

For a kayak or stand up paddle board, a bright white l.e.d. navigation light can maybe make the difference between being seen, or becoming a "speed bump."

For $19.99 check out the 'c-strobe with c-clip' that's powered by two AA batteries, not included, and flashes with 45-lumens white light ..... hand held ... you can wave it around and pray you don't get hit ....... or attach it to your pfd ..... does not float .... "has intense strobe light visible up to 2-miles."

www.topkayaker.net
And this is exactly why people get hurt or killed. This is the most insane, incoherent and stupid suggestions ranking right up there with the foam noodle nonsense. Yes please go out at night in a kayak, canoe or even better one of those ridiculously unstable stand up boards I mean what could POSSIBLY go wrong? Hmmm wait for it, yup speed bump..... the only thing you got accurate is do this and you better damn well pray you don't get hit.

People that do this are the very fruitcakes you see on TV on the 6PM news wondering why a disaster occurred. Um DUH? Here you go, another Darwin award winner.

FLL - seriously please save us from more suggestions from the galactically stupid.
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Old 11-17-2019, 11:37 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MAXUM;
FLL - seriously please save us from more suggestions from the galactically stupid.
..........

Hey Maxum buddy ........ Ebay.com has these 'ACR C-Strobe lights', a personal distress strobe light w/ a short lanyard, and two loops for attaching to a pfd strap, size-6" tube shape, works on two AA batteries, 45-lumens flashing white strobe light can be seen two miles across the water,

shipped from Tampa, Florida for $14.50-ea, shipping included.

Hey Maxum ..... is this a great Christmas stocking stuffer, or what!

At $14.50, shipping included, will be sold out soon, so don't delay your purchase. ... :
........

For a vessel stopped in a highly trafficked spot on the lake after dark, one of these small white strobe flashers could be very helpful ..... seems like a no brain-er.
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Old 11-17-2019, 02:47 PM   #109
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Just remember that the all around light must be mounted high enough to be seen for 360 degrees and be visible for a distance of 2 miles.
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Old 11-17-2019, 09:40 PM   #110
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Just remember that the all around light must be mounted high enough to be seen for 360 degrees and be visible for a distance of 2 miles.
For paddling a kayak or sup in the dark, what would work good is a baseball cap light, with the navigation light somehow attached to the very top of the cap ...... a nav-cap night light!

Ready for an extraordinary situation, one of these $14.50 psychedelic white, 45-lumens, C-strobe flashing l.e.d. beacons can be secured to your pfd ..... like, wow! ..... if you need to pray you don't get run over by a big, fast boat like it's going over a speed bump .... is right time to turn on this flasher beacon .... and continue to pray!
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Old 11-17-2019, 09:42 PM   #111
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Default Embarrassing

Two finer men, experienced boaters, met with tragic ends.
Frivolous speculating about kayaks and flashlights is embarrassing and should not be part of a solemn thread. Have some respect and start another thread if you have to drift off course.
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Old 11-18-2019, 07:15 AM   #112
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Two finer men, experienced boaters, met with tragic ends.
Frivolous speculating about kayaks and flashlights is embarrassing and should not be part of a solemn thread. Have some respect and start another thread if you have to drift off course.
It's not only embarrassing but disrespectful.
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Old 11-19-2019, 09:27 PM   #113
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Default "shocking" words

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I agree 100%....this is not a game, and is definitely not entertaining. I cannot imagine what the survivor and other family members are enduring.
People really need to think about exactly what they're saying, and how it clearly comes across to others reading it. Saying "shocked" is such an inappropriate word to use. Thoughts expressed regarding and accident and death should convey sympathy, and heartfelt sorrow.
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Old 11-19-2019, 09:53 PM   #114
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People really need to think about exactly what they're saying, and how it clearly comes across to others reading it. Saying "shocked" is such an inappropriate word to use. Thoughts expressed regarding and accident and death should convey sympathy, and heartfelt sorrow.
Thank you and welcome to the Forum with a thoughtful post..
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Old 11-20-2019, 04:58 AM   #115
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So, here's a question on this extremely unfortunate, sad, and unhappy collision: Were the two motor boats both moving along and collided head-on, or was one boat struck while it was stopped, or what?
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Old 11-20-2019, 07:32 AM   #116
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Originally Posted by fatlazyless View Post
So, here's a question on this extremely unfortunate, sad, and unhappy collision: Were the two motor boats both moving along and collided head-on, or was one boat struck while it was stopped, or what?
Now we add sarcasim
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Old 11-20-2019, 08:05 AM   #117
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Default Obituary

Obituary for Hal Lyon:
https://www.laconiadailysun.com/comm...36b54ef39.html
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Old 11-20-2019, 09:45 AM   #118
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Wow, what am amazing list of accolades. I never met him, but am sad I didn't. Such a loss to the community.
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Old 11-20-2019, 10:18 AM   #119
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Unhappy

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Originally Posted by fatlazyless View Post
So, here's a question on this extremely unfortunate, sad, and unhappy collision: Were the two motor boats both moving along and collided head-on, or was one boat struck while it was stopped, or what?
You really need to refrain from posting on this thread. You just don't get it!
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Old 11-20-2019, 10:24 AM   #120
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It's scant consolation, but it seems both gentlemen passed while doing the thing they most enjoyed while at their favorite spot on earth.
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Old 11-20-2019, 10:33 AM   #121
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You really need to refrain from posting on this thread. You just don't get it!
So I’m kind of with FatLazy.

While this is a sad unfortunate event and my condolences go out to friends and family, there seems to be a lot of unanswered questions. This thread is about a boat crash and people have questions. Maybe a thread should be started to celebrate the lives of the individuals that were lost.

Take the names out of it and I think there would be some different reactions to this crash.

Examples:

Drinking always comes up in these type of threads, why not here? An operator runs into a breakwater at night and leaves the boat there and the knee jerk reaction is that the operator was drunk.

Common sense, why where people boating in these conditions?

Who’s at fault? Operator error? Mechanical?

Could this have been avoided?

All due respect to the deceased and their families but 2 people lost their lives here, families/friends lost loved ones. There has to be some lessons learned from this in addition to accountability.


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Old 11-20-2019, 10:45 AM   #122
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So our place is on the stretch of mainland near Blueberry Island (if going straight from Bear), and one of our neighbors says debris from this wreck washed up all along the shoreline there. I checked this weekend on our shore and if it had, it was taken away by that point.

I mean knowing how the lake goes, I'm not sure if I could tell if debris was from this specific incident versus the usual flotsam and jetsam, especially considering the sizes of the boats involved and the distance. But wondering if anyone else encountered something.
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Old 11-20-2019, 02:31 PM   #123
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So I’m kind of with FatLazy.

While this is a sad unfortunate event and my condolences go out to friends and family, there seems to be a lot of unanswered questions. This thread is about a boat crash and people have questions. Maybe a thread should be started to celebrate the lives of the individuals that were lost.

Take the names out of it and I think there would be some different reactions to this crash.

Examples:

Drinking always comes up in these type of threads, why not here? An operator runs into a breakwater at night and leaves the boat there and the knee jerk reaction is that the operator was drunk.

Common sense, why where people boating in these conditions?

Who’s at fault? Operator error? Mechanical?

Could this have been avoided?

All due respect to the deceased and their families but 2 people lost their lives here, families/friends lost loved ones. There has to be some lessons learned from this in addition to accountability.

Perhaps the lesson is simply to remember that these things can happen to anyone. You can never be so skilled, knowledgeable, or prepared as to completely eliminate the possibility of finding yourself in danger.

(ps. How does one undo a "thank you"? )
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Old 11-20-2019, 02:47 PM   #124
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Perhaps the lesson is simply to remember that these things can happen to anyone. You can never be so skilled, knowledgeable, or prepared as to completely eliminate the possibility of finding yourself in danger.

(ps. How does one undo a "thank you"? )
Very well said Shore things! Sometimes an "accident" is just that...an accident.

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Old 11-20-2019, 02:52 PM   #125
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Very well said Shore things! Sometimes an "accident" is just that...an accident.

Dan
That doesn't mean there isn't a root cause to the accident that should be figured out and shared with the public to ensure others avoid a similar incident.

Just saying oh an accident is an accident is arguably just making an excuse.

One could even argue this- the two boaters were friends right? Well my friends who I have known for ever would know the path I would take across the lake because they have seen me do it or we have done it together numerous times. Could that have been a factor? The fact they had similar or identical thought of well lets hug this island coast at this point because they both knew it well and did it multiple times? Well then that would be a factor that put them in the same place as the same time because otherwise they would have completely missed each other right?
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Old 11-20-2019, 03:05 PM   #126
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Default Memories

Hal and his family have been friends and neighbors on East Bear Island for many years. We enjoyed holiday visits to his off-island home where Hal and his family would dress in period clothes, and old Christmas carols would be sung by all, and the best eggnog we've ever had was served. We will miss him. 🐻
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Old 11-20-2019, 03:25 PM   #127
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Sorry for your loss, Barney Bear--it sounds like Winni lost two great spirits.

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Old 11-20-2019, 03:46 PM   #128
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That doesn't mean there isn't a root cause to the accident that should be figured out and shared with the public to ensure others avoid a similar incident.

Just saying oh an accident is an accident is arguably just making an excuse.

One could even argue this- the two boaters were friends right? Well my friends who I have known for ever would know the path I would take across the lake because they have seen me do it or we have done it together numerous times. Could that have been a factor? The fact they had similar or identical thought of well lets hug this island coast at this point because they both knew it well and did it multiple times? Well then that would be a factor that put them in the same place as the same time because otherwise they would have completely missed each other right?
I'm sure at some point these details will come out. It would be prudent to allow law enforcement to do a complete and thorough "official" investigation which doesn't happen quickly as seen on TV. This would include as many unbiased facts based on the evidence gathered, observation of the site where it occurred and whatever information the surviving witness had to offer as well. There is an awful lot of speculation out there as to what could have happened or conclusions being drawn based on limited factual information that while maybe accurate is taken out of context and at face value.

You can bet if there are any lessons to be learned they will be made public in the aftermath of whatever facts come to light following this report, especially since one fact is undisputed. Both of the victims were seasoned operators very familiar with the area.
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Old 11-20-2019, 04:14 PM   #129
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Max, well said, thank you. Fyi, great letter in recent Weirs Times by Tim Moore(page 2) The only thing left out was the fact that from year to year, Hal was so very consistent.
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Old 11-20-2019, 08:05 PM   #130
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I did not know them so I cant comment on what type of men they were or how they lived their lives.
All I can say is that the Buddha taught his followers to every single day think that, that day is the day they could die. And to think of all the ways they could lose their life on that day. Illness, accident, snake bite, murder. The many ways that the end could come at any moment.

This kept them grounded to the reality of how impermanent life was,and so at the end, they wouldn't be so surprised.

I didn't know them. But I hope they knew this.
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Old 11-21-2019, 09:59 AM   #131
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Max, well said, thank you. Fyi, great letter in recent Weirs Times by Tim Moore(page 2) The only thing left out was the fact that from year to year, Hal was so very consistent.
Do you have a link to this article?
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Old 11-21-2019, 10:47 AM   #132
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Do you have a link to this article?
https://weirs.com

It's in the 11/21/19 issue on the right side of the home page
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Old 12-10-2019, 11:54 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by steve c View Post
http://www.bearcam1.com/
Marine Patrol on the cam. looks like they are running a search grid
The Bear Cam shows Marine Patrol out again this morning running a search grid. A reminder of a tragic accident.
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Old 12-10-2019, 05:16 PM   #134
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Default Boat Recovery

At 5:00, WMUR had a piece on the recovery of Hal Lyon's boat today just off the north end of Bear Island. The boat is totally destroyed. We miss Hal and Jim. 🐻
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Old 12-10-2019, 07:56 PM   #135
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Thank you for the post. I think about this tragedy every single day.


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Old 12-10-2019, 08:20 PM   #136
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WMUR Story.

Boat looks rough.

https://www.wmur.com/article/2nd-boa...-lake/30188756
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Old 12-11-2019, 08:32 AM   #137
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It will be interesting to read the NHMP report on the accident.... that looks like a pretty serious impact....

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Old 12-11-2019, 01:59 PM   #138
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I don't think the impact was as great as some of you may think. It only have to be significant enough to start the sinking process. Through the process involved heading to the bottom, and then of course touching down significant damage could have also happened to the boat that sank.....
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Old 12-11-2019, 02:47 PM   #139
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If both boats were moving forward at even 20 mph that's still a significant effective collision speed. The damage to the Penn Yan is pretty symmetrical so it seems like a pretty square hit to me. Very sad situation
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Old 12-11-2019, 02:58 PM   #140
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I don't think the impact was as great as some of you may think. It only have to be significant enough to start the sinking process. Through the process involved heading to the bottom, and then of course touching down significant damage could have also happened to the boat that sank.....
Your kidding right??... Did you see the bow of that boat?? Touching down on the bottom did not do that!

I agree with steve c that if both boats were going 20 mph or even less, the overall force of that collision is very significant. Similar to hitting a brick wall at 40 mph!

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Old 12-11-2019, 04:22 PM   #141
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The WMUR video report used several still shots from my BearCam at www.bearchow.com to show the recovery process. Kind of eerie to see a recovery just a few feet off of my dock.
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Old 12-11-2019, 06:30 PM   #142
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Question 'Price of Boating after Dark...

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Originally Posted by iw8surf View Post
That doesn't mean there isn't a root cause to the accident that should be figured out and shared with the public to ensure others avoid a similar incident.
Just saying oh an accident is an accident is arguably just making an excuse.
One could even argue this- the two boaters were friends right? Well my friends who I have known for ever would know the path I would take across the lake because they have seen me do it or we have done it together numerous times. Could that have been a factor? The fact they had similar or identical thought of well lets hug this island coast at this point because they both knew it well and did it multiple times? Well then that would be a factor that put them in the same place as the same time because otherwise they would have completely missed each other right?
Check out what the NHMP says at 1:02 in the WMUR recovery video.

https://www.wmur.com/article/2nd-boa...-lake/30188756
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Old 12-12-2019, 07:11 AM   #143
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Bear cam snap shot
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Old 12-12-2019, 07:19 AM   #144
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in deference to those closer to the families ……… can we NOT debate the impact speculations in open forum?
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Old 12-12-2019, 08:34 AM   #145
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in deference to those closer to the families ÖÖÖ can we NOT debate the impact speculations in open forum?
Why? This forum had no problem debating the Diamond Is incident impacts etc etc! Double standard?

Bottom line is both guys made mistakes.... the accident report will bear that out! They never just blame 1 guy!

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Old 12-12-2019, 10:17 AM   #146
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Default .... dark lights vs bright lights?

The new light emitting diode light bulb technology that is slowly replacing the old incandescent light bulbs are much brighter, and much easier to see across the water, especially on a rainy, foggy night.

From my mega-mega-mega-mega multi million dollar waterfront location .... (every year or so, it gets another mega) I watch boats putt-putt past at night, all the time from a distance, and there is a big, big difference in the brightness boat light visibility on the boats, out there.

Sometimes, the old bulbs are not very bright even when brand new, plus the green, red, or white cover gets faded over the years which also lowers the visibility.

Whether you drive a boat or pedal a bicycle, if you go out at night, having some good, strong, bright lights can definitely make the big difference.
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Old 12-12-2019, 10:38 AM   #147
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in deference to those closer to the families ……… can we NOT debate the impact speculations in open forum?
I'm sure the families have the same questions the rest of us have. Unfortunately, this accident could be a great teachable moment for the rest of us if all these questions can be answered. Especially since these two gentlemen were so experienced. The fact that this could happen to them could serve the rest of us well, (if we can get the answers to all these questions). It's ok to ask all the questions, just be respectful.
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Old 12-12-2019, 02:38 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by ishoot308 View Post
Your kidding right??... Did you see the bow of that boat?? Touching down on the bottom did not do that!

I agree with steve c that if both boats were going 20 mph or even less, the overall force of that collision is very significant. Similar to hitting a brick wall at 40 mph!

Dan
Actually no I am not kidding, Notice that the hull is operated, the deck is already gone..... And I believe was gone as a result of activities the night of the accident.... Once the deck became detached from the hill all kinds of things can happen.

Given the damage seen on the other boat involved, I don't believe the impact was what people want to believe it was..... I don't think the impact separated the deck off the boat.... I think there was damage done during the sinking and recovery effort that has to be factored out to understand the impact of that night....

Once autopsy results and the investigation details made public, we will all be able to understand more about what happened that night.....

All in all this is a very tragic incident.
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Old 12-12-2019, 02:45 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by fatlazyless View Post
The new light emitting diode light bulb technology that is slowly replacing the old incandescent light bulbs are much brighter, and much easier to see across the water, especially on a rainy, foggy night.

From my mega-mega-mega-mega multi million dollar waterfront location .... (every year or so, it gets another mega) I watch boats putt-putt past at night, all the time from a distance, and there is a big, big difference in the brightness boat light visibility on the boats, out there.

Sometimes, the old bulbs are not very bright even when brand new, plus the green, red, or white cover gets faded over the years which also lowers the visibility.

Whether you drive a boat or pedal a bicycle, if you go out at night, having some good, strong, bright lights can definitely make the big difference.
If you do upgrade your navigation light bulbs to LEDs, be sure to use USCG certified bulbs. Many non-USCG bulbs will cause interference with a VHF radio, rendering it useless. I realize that most don't use VHF radios on the lake, so it may not matter to you, but it might be a big deal for the next owner of your boat that needs help some night and is out of cell range (perhaps somewhere other than Winni) and can't get their VHF to work.
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Old 12-12-2019, 02:52 PM   #150
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If you do upgrade your navigation light bulbs to LEDs, be sure to use USCG certified bulbs. Many non-USCG bulbs will cause interference with a VHF radio, rendering it useless. I realize that most don't use VHF radios on the lake, so it may not matter to you, but it might be a big deal for the next owner of your boat that needs help some night and is out of cell range (perhaps somewhere other than Winni) and can't get their VHF to work.
Great point Dave! The interference from LED bulbs can be significant!

I installed LED bulbs in my garage door openers and the range on my remote control was drastically affected. I basically had to be right against the garage door for it to work. It was the bulbs interference causing the problem!

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Old 12-12-2019, 05:29 PM   #151
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Off topic slightly: Iíll be swapping out my garage door light bulbs this weekend. I thought it was strange that the range was so short compared to previous openers.

Back on topic: I replaced my bow light with led because the bulbs wear out when itís inconvenient. Donít have to hang out over the bow to figure out how to get the light apart or worry that I donít have an extra bulb. And I have two stern lights in case one is lost over the side.
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Old 12-12-2019, 06:42 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by ishoot308 View Post
Great point Dave! The interference from LED bulbs can be significant!

I installed LED bulbs in my garage door openers and the range on my remote control was drastically affected. I basically had to be right against the garage door for it to work. It was the bulbs interference causing the problem!

Dan
Same here. The Led bulbs you want for your garage door opener have to have an FCC compliance statement on the box.

Back to the crash...

Is there a possibility that the bow of the boat seen in the video was cut to allow for the extrication of the deceased?
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Old 12-12-2019, 09:08 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by ishoot308 View Post
Great point Dave! The interference from LED bulbs can be significant!

I installed LED bulbs in my garage door openers and the range on my remote control was drastically affected. I basically had to be right against the garage door for it to work. It was the bulbs interference causing the problem!

Dan
I just wanted to chime in. First, I'd like to state as all others have here; this was an absolutely devastating tragedy. Imagine a quiet uneventful evening suddenly transformed in an instant, changing lives forever. Secondly. I enlarged and tried to enhance the bow photo image. If I had no idea of the circumstances and saw this photo, I'd say someone took a Sawzall to the bow. (MHO). Third, quick reference to the LED changes; I recently replaced my garage door openers lights ( as Dan did) with LED's only to find the remotes were inoperable. I had to replace them with CFL's to work.
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Old 12-13-2019, 08:20 AM   #154
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Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin View Post
Actually no I am not kidding, Notice that the hull is operated, the deck is already gone..... And I believe was gone as a result of activities the night of the accident.... Once the deck became detached from the hill all kinds of things can happen.

Given the damage seen on the other boat involved, I don't believe the impact was what people want to believe it was..... I don't think the impact separated the deck off the boat.... I think there was damage done during the sinking and recovery effort that has to be factored out to understand the impact of that night....

Once autopsy results and the investigation details made public, we will all be able to understand more about what happened that night.....

All in all this is a very tragic incident.
Other news articles indicated that the deck was removed previously by the investigators. The deck contained the light switches and was removed to verify position of the switches and I would guess to check their operation.
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Old 12-14-2019, 12:57 AM   #155
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Default Speculation serves little purpose!

For the past month Marine Patrol has worked diligently to preserve the physical evidence left behind after this tragic crash. Due to the nature of the incident, unique circumstances and difficult conditions have made this a challenge.

Unfortunately, our society too often demands immediate answers, instant gratification, and timely rewards. If not provided...someone's not doing their job or there is a cover-up in progress! Folks, sometimes things take more time than we all can control.

Many people have offered their thoughts and theories as to the events of November 9th. Faulty GPS, medical conditions, paths of travel, lights, angles, etc., etc. Public speculation has served no purpose in this case. However, it has left loved ones seeking answers to questions that are based solely on ignorant, uninformed statements.

From the inception of this forum I have restrained from commenting on topics related to Marine Patrol as doing so would have only served to fuel meaningless (to me) debate. This case is different. Tonight I must say some of this debate has only served to hurt others. We are trying to get answers for two grieving families. I recognize this forum is the place to exchange ideas, opinions, and even theories related to boating accidents. However, in this case, the genuine intent of some authors has result in unintended reactions.

So moving forward, I ask you to consider calling Marine Patrol if you have FACTUAL information, information specific to the boat occupants, or the boats themselves. That is what will help investigators and the families. Ignorant theories based upon assumed facts serves no legitimate purpose...and in this case, has brought unnecessary pain on to others.

I can assure you that Marine Patrol has remained in contact with the Hanson and Lyon families throughout this investigation. Our highly trained investigators are committed to finding and providing as many answers as the evidence can offer.

For those of you who may have taken offense to my comments, feel free to contact me directly at 227-2110. My plea was not intended to offend you, it was intended to protect those who are grieving.

Thank you,

Tim Dunleavy
Marine Patrol Captain
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Old 12-14-2019, 08:12 AM   #156
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Thank you Captain!


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Old 12-14-2019, 09:46 PM   #157
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Originally Posted by Marine Patrol View Post
For the past month Marine Patrol has worked diligently to preserve the physical evidence left behind after this tragic crash. Due to the nature of the incident, unique circumstances and difficult conditions have made this a challenge.

Unfortunately, our society too often demands immediate answers, instant gratification, and timely rewards. If not provided...someone's not doing their job or there is a cover-up in progress! Folks, sometimes things take more time than we all can control.

Many people have offered their thoughts and theories as to the events of November 9th. Faulty GPS, medical conditions, paths of travel, lights, angles, etc., etc. Public speculation has served no purpose in this case. However, it has left loved ones seeking answers to questions that are based solely on ignorant, uninformed statements.

From the inception of this forum I have restrained from commenting on topics related to Marine Patrol as doing so would have only served to fuel meaningless (to me) debate. This case is different. Tonight I must say some of this debate has only served to hurt others. We are trying to get answers for two grieving families. I recognize this forum is the place to exchange ideas, opinions, and even theories related to boating accidents. However, in this case, the genuine intent of some authors has result in unintended reactions.

So moving forward, I ask you to consider calling Marine Patrol if you have FACTUAL information, information specific to the boat occupants, or the boats themselves. That is what will help investigators and the families. Ignorant theories based upon assumed facts serves no legitimate purpose...and in this case, has brought unnecessary pain on to others.

I can assure you that Marine Patrol has remained in contact with the Hanson and Lyon families throughout this investigation. Our highly trained investigators are committed to finding and providing as many answers as the evidence can offer.

For those of you who may have taken offense to my comments, feel free to contact me directly at 227-2110. My plea was not intended to offend you, it was intended to protect those who are grieving.

Thank you,

Tim Dunleavy
Marine Patrol Captain
It would be very much appreciated if Marine Patrol would give an update as to what is known thus far to end some of the speculation.
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Old 12-15-2019, 08:04 AM   #158
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It would be very much appreciated if Marine Patrol would give an update as to what is known thus far to end some of the speculation.
I have a different take on Captain Dunleavy's post.
I think it's perfectly normal that people would speculate about what happened and exchange thoughts on what might have caused the accident especially since it involved two experienced and well respected boaters.
I don't recall him responding in such a fashion (calling posters ignorant" when everyone was discussing the two other fatal accidents in previous years.
It wasn't a criminal matter and everyone was respectful to the families so I just don't understand what seemed to be such an angry response. I find it a little improper from a public official.
After all the thanks he got.....I'll probably get blasted but just my take on it.
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Old 12-15-2019, 08:17 AM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marine Patrol View Post
For the past month Marine Patrol has worked diligently to preserve the physical evidence left behind after this tragic crash. Due to the nature of the incident, unique circumstances and difficult conditions have made this a challenge.

Unfortunately, our society too often demands immediate answers, instant gratification, and timely rewards. If not provided...someone's not doing their job or there is a cover-up in progress! Folks, sometimes things take more time than we all can control.

Many people have offered their thoughts and theories as to the events of November 9th. Faulty GPS, medical conditions, paths of travel, lights, angles, etc., etc. Public speculation has served no purpose in this case. However, it has left loved ones seeking answers to questions that are based solely on ignorant, uninformed statements.

From the inception of this forum I have restrained from commenting on topics related to Marine Patrol as doing so would have only served to fuel meaningless (to me) debate. This case is different. Tonight I must say some of this debate has only served to hurt others. We are trying to get answers for two grieving families. I recognize this forum is the place to exchange ideas, opinions, and even theories related to boating accidents. However, in this case, the genuine intent of some authors has result in unintended reactions.

So moving forward, I ask you to consider calling Marine Patrol if you have FACTUAL information, information specific to the boat occupants, or the boats themselves. That is what will help investigators and the families. Ignorant theories based upon assumed facts serves no legitimate purpose...and in this case, has brought unnecessary pain on to others.

I can assure you that Marine Patrol has remained in contact with the Hanson and Lyon families throughout this investigation. Our highly trained investigators are committed to finding and providing as many answers as the evidence can offer.

For those of you who may have taken offense to my comments, feel free to contact me directly at 227-2110. My plea was not intended to offend you, it was intended to protect those who are grieving.

Thank you,

Tim Dunleavy
Marine Patrol Captain

Curious as to why Marine Patrol felt it necessary to speak up in this particular instance. Where were you when the Diamond Island accident occurred as there were far more pages upon pages of speculation here in this forum than in this instance. There were deaths and grieving families in that accident as well....why the double standard??
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Old 12-15-2019, 08:55 AM   #160
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To me, the point is that the conjecture is apparently causing additional pain to the families of those involved. Regardless of what makes or doesnít make this different than past examples, I hope forum members respect the request,and assume positive intent from Captain Dunleavy.


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Old 12-15-2019, 09:22 AM   #161
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Just "speculation" on my part but maybe MP just wanted to let everyone know that family members of the victims are aware of and likely reading this very thread. For all I know some may be forum members that have actually participated.

I do not believe the intended purpose is to squelch discussion folks, rather acknowledgement of who is reading this, the reactions from some statements made and consider what or how something is said moving forward with that in mind. I don't think it inappropriate for a public official in this capacity to make such a statement. Is it really that abhorrent to some that Mr. Dunleavy show a little empathy for the families of the victims here at this time? That's pretty heartless if you think so.

I also don't see this at all as a double standard. Whos to say following those other investigations the fact wildly speculating conversations on a forum like this going unaddressed wasn't flagged as something that needs to be in the future if or when deemed appropriate?

I applaud the efforts of Marine Patrol and all other agencies participating in this investigation. Answers will come in due time.
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Old 12-15-2019, 12:34 PM   #162
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Hal Lyon was a participant of this informative forum, particularly making contributions about fishing. 🐻
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Old 12-15-2019, 09:39 PM   #163
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Quote:
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I have a different take on Captain Dunleavy's post.
I think it's perfectly normal that people would speculate about what happened and exchange thoughts on what might have caused the accident especially since it involved two experienced and well respected boaters.
I don't recall him responding in such a fashion (calling posters ignorant" when everyone was discussing the two other fatal accidents in previous years.
It wasn't a criminal matter and everyone was respectful to the families so I just don't understand what seemed to be such an angry response. I find it a little improper from a public official.
After all the thanks he got.....I'll probably get blasted but just my take on it.
SAMIAM,
My apologies! My comment, "ignorant, uninformed statements" was directed at some of the conclusions proposed in this thread and not at any one specific member of this forum.

Ignorant statements are those made without specific knowledge in a particular field (in this case boat accident reconstruction, or without the benefit of seeing these boats in person).

At no time did I intend to insult members of this forum. Again, my apologies if my comments were misunderstood.

Tim
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Old 12-16-2019, 03:40 AM   #164
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Red face Built out of Frustration...

You see, seldom are we able to get the full story (or the "back-story") on events initiated by the MSM/media--especially those with boats in the "picture".

We are drawn to investigation, so we do what we can here.
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Old 12-16-2019, 07:12 AM   #165
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in deference to those closer to the families ……… can we NOT debate the impact speculations in open forum?
I applaud Capt. Dunleavy's intent ……….. I tried the same thing last Thursday but got a "thread lashing" from many & so the debate and speculation continued !

Capt. -- it is good to know that you keep an eye on this Forum to gauge Public opinion.
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Old 12-16-2019, 08:56 AM   #166
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Nothing like the police getting online to a public forum and requesting to silence peoples free speech. Live free or die!
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Old 12-16-2019, 08:59 AM   #167
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Nothing like the police getting online to a public forum and requesting to silence peoples free speech. Live free or die!
I took it as more of a request to be respectful of the victims and their families.

BTW, free speech has no application here on this forum. You are free to type anything you want. It's up to the moderator to determine what is allowed to be posted.
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Old 12-16-2019, 09:01 AM   #168
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Nothing like the police getting online to a public forum and requesting to silence peoples free speech. Live free or die!
I believe that you are missing his message. Címon, lighten up!
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Old 12-16-2019, 11:08 AM   #169
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Nothing like the police getting online to a public forum and requesting to silence peoples free speech. Live free or die!
The Captain was asking people to be respectful of the pain that the families are going through. He hoped that the speculation would go away for now. I am sure the correct information will be released when the time is right.

Read the entire thread and think about how you would feel about the idle speculation if it were one of your family members involved in this tragedy.

It is obvious, especially with his follow up post to clarify his intent, that his intentions were correct. The Captain should be commended for his post.
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Old 12-16-2019, 12:00 PM   #170
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Default Apology?

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Nothing like the police getting online to a public forum and requesting to silence peoples free speech. Live free or die!
I think this is out of line. It is certainly inconsistent with the general intent of Capt. Dunleavy's posts. I have had many interactions with Capt. Dunleavy as well as Director Barrett before him over many years. They, and their officers and staff have great compassion and empathy for others. They are professionals and you don't go far in their profession without compassion and empathy. Thank you, Captain.
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Old 12-16-2019, 01:36 PM   #171
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Nothing like the police getting online to a public forum and requesting to silence peoples free speech. Live free or die!
Completely disagree with your message. My take is they are looking for people to be respectful of the families and do not speculate on something we have no facts or basis. Think from the families perspective
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Old 12-16-2019, 02:08 PM   #172
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Default Freedom of speech...

Doesn't mean there can't be consequences for what you say...Such as saying things in bad taste when proper decorum dictates speech moderation.
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Old 12-16-2019, 03:37 PM   #173
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Doesn't mean there can't be consequences for what you say...Such as saying things in bad taste when proper decorum dictates speech moderation.
One would think, but I don't see that happening around here much, consequences that is...
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Old 12-16-2019, 05:19 PM   #174
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Default Freedom!?

All of our cherished freedoms come with the responsibility to use it wisely and I observe that freedom of speech is perhaps the most abused.

We also need to remember Sherlock Holmes' First Rule: "It is a capital error to theorize in advance of the facts."
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