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View Poll Results: Should non resident tax payers get to vote in the March Town Elections?
YES 444 66.97%
NO 219 33.03%
Voters: 663. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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Old 06-16-2010, 04:04 PM   #1
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Default Should Non Resident Tax Payers vote?

Should non resident tax payers get to vote in the March town elections? These are the elections where towns vote on Zoning Ordinances, election of local officials and tax and budget issues.

Last edited by Ms Merge; 06-16-2010 at 04:07 PM. Reason: edit
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Old 06-16-2010, 08:25 PM   #2
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No. Residents and non-residents have very different priorities and perspectives about local government. Looking at this more broadly, do we want people who own property in several communities to be able to vote in each town's election? It seems to me it gives property-rich individuals a disproportionate voice in local affairs.

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Old 06-17-2010, 07:17 AM   #3
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People - this question was answered 200+ years ago. I think they called it taxation without representation back then. But that is history, it's all about me and my personal agenda now so I voted based on that.
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Old 06-17-2010, 07:32 AM   #4
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Default No Vote

I am a non resident and I pay taxes to the city of Laconia, however I believe this does not give me the right to vote. Going into your investment as a non resident and paying tax you must resolve yourself to the fact that residents have certain right that you dont. Just as I have a business in NYC and pay taxes to the city yet I live on Long Island and I can not vote in the city.
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Old 06-17-2010, 08:43 AM   #5
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Default Taxpayers

Taxpayers should have the rights to represent themselves in monetary affairs, but should not be included in the local government affairs.

I know there is a very fine line between the two. But there should be representation.
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Old 06-26-2010, 05:27 AM   #6
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Default I vote no on this but

As an owner of property in Maine I would like it if they gave us a break on things like snowmobile and ATV registrations. After all we do pay the same taxes as other homeowners.
As for the tax issue I believe it was summed up when someone said the agenda and or priorities would definitely be different for weekend warriors.
I know it would be for us.
I believe a prime example of what can still happen was the new speed limit.
I believe many who supported this were in fact from out of state.
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Old 07-15-2010, 07:06 PM   #7
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Default Taxation without representation

I get annoyed when the town of New Hampton votes for expensive things. They reassessed and tax the heck out of waterfront properties like my own and yet I have not right to vote for the people who are spending my money.
There seems to be a double standard. Lakefront properties are getting taxed at higher rates and we seem to be the ones who have no say. They have lower rates and they get us to pay for all the stuff they want.
I get very very angry about it.
I have no problem paying for fire, police and schools to some degree. But, I use nothing from this town. Our private road gets no snow removal, we get no trash collection, we get virtually nothing and pay through the nose for it.
They are thieves in my opinion. Give me the right to vote in this town, give the rest of us who own places this right. I'm not asking to double my vote for things like President, but I should be able to say how my money is spent.
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Old 07-15-2010, 07:59 PM   #8
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OK, so the reverse should be applied: If I live & own my residence primarily in New Hampton and vote there, THEN when I own a residential property in Boston, a "second" home because I work there and sleep there. I claim just less then 50%. Should I be voting in Boston? NO, as it's not my "residence", which can be in only one municipality, by definition.
The laws and way for ages and ages.

It is troubling, for the reasons stated by many.
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Old 07-16-2010, 11:25 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LHemy View Post
I get annoyed when the town of New Hampton votes for expensive things. They reassessed and tax the heck out of waterfront properties like my own and yet I have not right to vote for the people who are spending my money.
There seems to be a double standard. Lakefront properties are getting taxed at higher rates and we seem to be the ones who have no say. They have lower rates and they get us to pay for all the stuff they want.
I get very very angry about it.
I have no problem paying for fire, police and schools to some degree. But, I use nothing from this town. Our private road gets no snow removal, we get no trash collection, we get virtually nothing and pay through the nose for it.
They are thieves in my opinion. Give me the right to vote in this town, give the rest of us who own places this right. I'm not asking to double my vote for things like President, but I should be able to say how my money is spent.
You as a lakefront owner are not being taxed at a higher rate (tax rate). You are being taxed at the same rate as the guy with a 2-bedroom ranch on the other side of town. You have a higher value applied to your rate due to the land value (being waterfront) and possibly a bigger building.

Question. Were you made aware of the tax rate and property value when you purchased your property? or did you not read that portion of the property disclosure?

Anybody wondering why most locals do not want non-residents to vote, your answer is above. Ill informed tax payers that could care less about what the town needs and are only looking out to save themselves a few bucks on a property that all the information was presented to them ahead of time as expensive.

And just to clear things up, "private" road means that the town does not maintain it.
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Old 07-16-2010, 11:51 AM   #10
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Quote:
And just to clear things up, "private" road means that the town does not maintain it.
So are you of the opinion that my house on a "private road" should be valued and taxed the same as the same property built on a town owned, built and maintained road? It seems like I get even less for my tax dollar with no recourse in valuation because my "non voting taxpayer" opinion doesn't matter to the town.
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Old 07-16-2010, 03:02 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie T View Post
So are you of the opinion that my house on a "private road" should be valued and taxed the same as the same property built on a town owned, built and maintained road? It seems like I get even less for my tax dollar with no recourse in valuation because my "non voting taxpayer" opinion doesn't matter to the town.
Your house is assessed based on the market value of the property, not services received. That is the way it is throughout the state and in most other states. If you believe that the assessed value of your house is well above market value then you should talk to the assessor in your town.

There are a lot of high value properties on private roads, the market value determined by what people are willing to pay for property in that location.
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Old 07-16-2010, 03:17 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Slickcraft View Post
Your house is assessed based on the market value of the property, not services received. That is the way it is throughout the state and in most other states. If you believe that the assessed value of your house is well above market value then you should talk to the assessor in your town.

There are a lot of high value properties on private roads, the market value determined by what people are willing to pay for property in that location.

I believe the point was that the non-residents pay for services they never use. The vast majority of lakeside houses are seasonal. The people who use them don't send their kids to the schools they are paying for. They use the roads but a fraction of the time the residents use. The list goes on.

People could complain that NRs don't have the best, long term interests of the town always in their minds and there's some truth to that. On the other hand the residents can spend with near impunity at rates that otherwise wouldn't be allowed for because it's OPM and beyond the NR's ability to control.

What's needed is some balance.
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Old 07-16-2010, 03:50 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slickcraft View Post
Your house is assessed based on the market value of the property, not services received. That is the way it is throughout the state and in most other states. If you believe that the assessed value of your house is well above market value then you should talk to the assessor in your town.

There are a lot of high value properties on private roads, the market value determined by what people are willing to pay for property in that location.
The problem is the assessor's don't believe and won't accept the argument that being on a private road diminishes the value of a home. They don't even want to hear about the expense of upkeep, plowing etc. Their response is "simiilar homes have similar value and the road makes no difference to us"
Kindly explain how that is justified!
I'm surprised they didn't propose that they should add the value of the paving that I paid to my assessment.
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Old 07-16-2010, 03:50 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmen24 View Post
You as a lakefront owner are not being taxed at a higher rate (tax rate). You are being taxed at the same rate as the guy with a 2-bedroom ranch on the other side of town. You have a higher value applied to your rate due to the land value (being waterfront) and possibly a bigger building.

Question. Were you made aware of the tax rate and property value when you purchased your property? or did you not read that portion of the property disclosure?

Anybody wondering why most locals do not want non-residents to vote, your answer is above. Ill informed tax payers that could care less about what the town needs and are only looking out to save themselves a few bucks on a property that all the information was presented to them ahead of time as expensive.

And just to clear things up, "private" road means that the town does not maintain it.
How do you feel about full time residents without children being allowed to vote? Obviously "they could care less about what the town needs and are only looking out to save themselves a few bucks on property that all the information was presented to them ahead of time as expensive."

How about voting children of taxpayers who don't actually pay any taxes themselves? I have two of my own. It is ironic that they can vote at the town meeting where we live but I can't vote in the town meeting where I pay taxes.

This issue is not fully obvious to all of us.

BTW I voted No in the poll.
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Old 07-19-2010, 02:41 PM   #15
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Default Have a lot of explaining to do!

Charlie T first. Before we get to deep in this conversation we need to look at what causes a road to be private vs. public.

A private road is typically created for one of two reasons.

It is a right of way that services one or multiple properties (private cul de sac or association). Typically these properties pay an association fee for upkeep or services, so you are basically paying a higher fee for privacy.

The second is that someone wanted to build down a class six road even though the town was not interested in taking it on for whatever reason, so someone fit the entire bill to bring that road up to spec with the knowledge that they were going to have to maintain it. These situations can typically be brought into full town maintenance if enough houses are built per mile to off-set the cost of maintenance (then they raise the town tax rate to pay for it) and enough people on the road want it to happen. Usually though if it is not at current spec, which typically requires two points of entry, the town will not play.

You are in a tough spot, but living on a private road has benifits over us public road folks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rattlesnake Guy View Post
How do you feel about full time residents without children being allowed to vote? Obviously "they could care less about what the town needs and are only looking out to save themselves a few bucks on property that all the information was presented to them ahead of time as expensive."

How about voting children of taxpayers who don't actually pay any taxes themselves? I have two of my own. It is ironic that they can vote at the town meeting where we live but I can't vote in the town meeting where I pay taxes.

This issue is not fully obvious to all of us.

BTW I voted No in the poll.
I can understand your feeling on this as my folks entered this arena about 11 years ago. This is their take on that; they do not have a choice in the matter but if by paying into the burden of the school budget means that someone elses children get the same opportunity or better than their kids got, then they are OK with it.

On your second point. I would have no problem with this situation, but I can only hope that this situation is handled properly. By that I mean, having parents that will take the time to discuss the issues with these children and clearly explain why they (the parents) are choosing to hold a particular platform on town spending (why is spending OK in one arena and not in another). That way, they understand why it is important to you and what you used to base your opinion on and so that they understand that you are not simply voting solely based on emotion; an all to common trait in voters it seems.

Anyway, my opinion on these types of issues is not a secret and I do not hold my nose to a non-resident in my town, thinking that I am better than they are, the same cannot always be said when the shoe is on the other foot. This coming from the resident of a town that shares police, ambulance, road maintenance and a school with the town next door, but we pay $2.00 more/K of value. We have a fire station and so do they and the town offices are on our side as are the school and police station, with seperate post offices. Try to figure out that arrangement as I have never been able to get a straight anwser from anyone, other than their side (no geographic town boundary either) has Highland Lake, so maybe those folks are getting a break to off-set the higher valuation, who knows.

And I also voted "no" in this poll. Suprise, suprise.
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Old 07-19-2010, 10:49 PM   #16
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Arrow Simple: No taxation without representation

When it comes to local laws governing the land, if you own land and pay property taxes you should have a vote and the right to local representation.

No taxation without representation PERIOD.
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Old 07-20-2010, 04:33 AM   #17
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Default I Disagree

Does this mean that every state I own property in I should be able to vote. I dont think so you should only be able to vote in the state of your primary residence. What about people that own property here or for that matter anywhere in the US and they are not US citizens do they now have the right to vote? When you own property outside of your state of residence resolve your self to the fact that you can not vote.

Remeber though if you have property issues this does not mean you do not have the right to legal remedies allowed under local law when you disagree with local building codes and laws regarding your property.
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Old 07-20-2010, 06:50 AM   #18
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Be glad that the lake region towns don't do what Park City Utah does. They give residents a 45% discount on their property taxes and still don't give the non-residents a vote. It would be nice to have a system that let non-resident taxpayers have a vote on some issues, but in Moultonborough, they can at least speak at town meetings with permission from the moderator. Why couldn't a town implement a non-binding online voting process to at least get the pulse of non-voting taxpayers?
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Old 07-20-2010, 10:08 AM   #19
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What is the defination of timeframe someone has to spend for this discussion of a "non- resident taxpayer"?

Is it someone who owns a home/condo- whatever a dock? and spends a day here or weekend or weekends or months here. Is this like State of Florida in order to be qualified to be a resident I have to spend 6 months of my time there, and most snow birds come back and forth- very difficult to enforce. This is to much of gray area.
If I am shelling out thousands I would like to have a say. Currently I do not have the free time to vote up here but If I have the time maybe I will if I am informed about topics that are important to me.

Do most town issues at the lake pertain to me? Yes and No.
Library trustee, or similiar do not impact me but maybe a huge bond issue does. How do you draw a line on how to vote for what and when? So what is next, Big brother telling me to vote or not to vote or else. Again who would enforce this? A "honor system" or a voter enforcement board and at what cost in tough economic times. Most of the lake towns would not exist if it were not for Summer residents and the tax dollars they bring only to mention a few "trickle down theory at work". Next winter just take a drive around, the summer resident to winter residnet ratio is probally cut by 50% or greater. Would the new high schools and public safety buildings "sans" federal funds exist up this way without tax revenue-No.

Like most town elections only a small percentage vote. In my southern NH hometown only 10% voted in the last town election.
This thread should be about "apathy" which is more of an issue.
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Old 07-20-2010, 01:56 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakegeezer View Post
Be glad that the lake region towns don't do what Park City Utah does. They give residents a 45% discount on their property taxes and still don't give the non-residents a vote. It would be nice to have a system that let non-resident taxpayers have a vote on some issues, but in Moultonborough, they can at least speak at town meetings with permission from the moderator. Why couldn't a town implement a non-binding online voting process to at least get the pulse of non-voting taxpayers?
Moultonborough's annual Summer Informational Town Meeting will be held this Thursday the 22nd at Town Hall at 4:00 PM. Good opportunity for you to voice your opinions.
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Old 07-20-2010, 07:15 PM   #21
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Like we all have said, one must decide where they want to reside!
Regardless to owning property on Lake, across town from Lake, in Boston, or in Naples FL. Where is the majority of time spent? Answer that and vote there.

All info of meetings are usually in news media. In today's life, town happenings and issues at meetings seem to be posted on town websites.
It's time to get a life, as it's easy to be informed of issues before voters.

Per Roberts Rules, a non voter can be recognized and speak about an issue!
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Old 08-15-2010, 02:12 PM   #22
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Default No

NH law requires that a person be a citizen before being allowed to vote. Been that way for 200+ years, and it's not going to change anytime soon.

I find the elitist arrogance of out of staters absolutely astounding. They knew before they bought property that they would be subject to NH law. Now they not only want to vote in their own state but here as well. Tall about having your cake and eating it too! To think that they believe that they have the right to vote(yes, voting is a right!) in a town and state that they don't live in is astounding indeed. Their indifference for our state's constitution is remarkable and unjustifiable.

Using their logic, if I worked in Mass. and lived in NH, should I have the right to vote in Mass? I would say yes, absolutely.

Simply ludicrous.
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Old 08-15-2010, 06:11 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by jmen24 View Post

Ill informed tax payers that could care less about what the town needs and are only looking out to save themselves a few bucks on a property that all the information was presented to them ahead of time as expensive.
This is why most of Florida has lousy public schools. The retired folks that live and claim residency there do not vote favorable when it comes to school budgets and this makes for a lousy school system.

I'm sure at home where some lakefront owners raised thier kids they voted plenty of money for schools to make sure their kids got a good education(unless they sent them private$$$). The school system in a town is also a primary reason some people move to a particular town vs another. This is likely true whether they have kids or not due to the fact that schools indirectly factor into property values.
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Old 08-15-2010, 08:57 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by LocalRealtor View Post
This is why most of Florida has lousy public schools. The retired folks that live and claim residency there do not vote favorable when it comes to school budgets and this makes for a lousy school system.

I'm sure at home where some lakefront owners raised thier kids they voted plenty of money for schools to make sure their kids got a good education(unless they sent them private$$$). The school system in a town is also a primary reason some people move to a particular town vs another. This is likely true whether they have kids or not due to the fact that schools indirectly factor into property values.
And, They often do voluntary, [ NO Charge ] work in 'their' communities to enhance education of the young!

I would ask YOU, where are you getting you're numbers from????

Now in most cases, and most younger folks get free education from the elderly, NO?...

Some need to take a better look at where they are getting their Nummer's from!...


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Old 08-27-2010, 11:33 AM   #25
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Default Taxation without Representation

Ever hear of this? Funny thing is, the Tea Party movement is once again in the news. Better go back to the history books.
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Old 06-17-2010, 10:40 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms Merge View Post
Should non resident tax payers get to vote in the March town elections? These are the elections where towns vote on Zoning Ordinances, election of local officials and tax and budget issues.
I will not vote in this poll, as this is not a yes or no question. I am a non-resident taxpayer, and I find this a very prudent issue. There are times where I believe yes I should have a right. However a majority of the time, I don't believe I do.

When it comes to services in the town that I use, such as the Police, Fire, DPW, Town Hall, Parks and Rec. and how they Spend their Money yes do I believe I should have some input yes. However even in these case I don't use some of the resources 100% as I don't visit the area year around so why should my vote carry the same weight as someone that lives in town all year.

However When it comes to services such as the schools, no I really shouldn't have a say.. Why because no matter what I would have a jaded view, as this is a service I don't use. It wouldn't matter to me whether or not the town had to layoff teachers, or couldn't by new books...

In short the bottom line is this, as unfair as people think it is, This is how our country has defined voting laws for every year. I don't know of any place you can go and vote just because you pay taxes. You are allowed to vote because of residency. And that folks is the bottom line. To have a second home and to pay taxes in a non-residency situation, isn't a requirement it is a choice. A choice you made of free will, and based upon full knowledge of what you where getting into. Don't go and get all upset about it now, because your town has done things and raised your taxes, or will not respond to your issue the way you want them too, because your not a voting citizen of the town.

As a tax-payer by the way, you do have some rights in every town... It is up to you to find out what those rights are.

Don't try and change a historical way of doing something just because you don't think it is fair, and your agenda isn't being met.
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Old 06-24-2010, 07:30 PM   #27
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One votes in the municipality where one is "resident", and unable to be resident in multiple locals, regardless of owning real estate in multiple places.
That simple.
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Old 06-25-2010, 06:38 AM   #28
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The answer to this question is simple. Stop taxing property and start taxing consumption (sales tax) and income. Declare your residency in one state and vote there. Those that live in a state have more at stake than just how their money is spent. I know someone will say these are regressive taxes but there are ways to address taxes on the not so well off such as a rebate of consumption taxes through income tax filings for low income people.
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Old 06-25-2010, 07:00 AM   #29
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The answer to this question is simple. Stop taxing property and start taxing consumption (sales tax) and income. Declare your residency in one state and vote there. Those that live in a state have more at stake than just how their money is spent. I know someone will say these are regressive taxes but there are ways to address taxes on the not so well off such as a rebate of consumption taxes through income tax filings for low income people.
The NH legislatures don't "get it". However, once a sales tax always a sales tax; then cities & towns add tax on to. Like Vail, CO has a sales tax on top of the state sales tax!

I am not in State offices in Concord in any fashion. I don't think those "lawmakers" read forums like this. NH does tax all sorts of items, like un-earned income, interest & dividends. Fees for all sorts of things get increased as a "band-aide" approach to the budget. Like not long ago, they planned as toll both on i-93 in Salem - a nice dis-incentive to cross the border!!! We could go on and on & on.
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Old 06-25-2010, 12:48 PM   #30
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The NH legislatures don't "get it". However, once a sales tax always a sales tax; then cities & towns add tax on to. Like Vail, CO has a sales tax on top of the state sales tax!

I am not in State offices in Concord in any fashion. I don't think those "lawmakers" read forums like this. NH does tax all sorts of items, like un-earned income, interest & dividends. Fees for all sorts of things get increased as a "band-aide" approach to the budget. Like not long ago, they planned as toll both on i-93 in Salem - a nice dis-incentive to cross the border!!! We could go on and on & on.

Cities and towns only add takes if the legislature lets them. You don't need to tell me about taxes and fees. I own a small business and live in New Jersey! We are the leading tax state in the nation! My property in NH is assessed at about the same $ value as my home in NJ. Taxes in NH just under $4000.00/year. Taxes in NJ Just under $12,000.00/year in addition a 7% sales tax on almost everything and a 8% income tax on earned and unearned income. Buy a new car for say $25,000.00 and your registration will be about $250.00/yr and the state makes you pay for 3 years up front. I could go on and on. Our accountant for the business calculated that when all the fees, taxes and required insurance are paid, it takes 75 cents of each $ or profit to pay them.
Fortunately we now have a governor who is not afraid to take on the legislators and tell them no to spending. He is also butting heads with the public workers unions.
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Old 06-25-2010, 06:58 AM   #31
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YES ! For the record. I am not a seasonal resident, I live here year round. I believe Every taxpayer should be able to vote at both local elections and at the archaic side show event they call "town meeting".
If they are required to pay tax's then they should be allowed to have a say in how those tax dollars are being spent and who is spending them. It shouldn't matter whether they live here 365 days a year or the occasional weekend.
Right now all were doing to these people is telling them to, Give us your money and Go away, Don't tell us how to spend it, we will spend the way WE want !
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Old 10-10-2012, 02:29 AM   #32
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"...This is how our country has defined voting laws for every year. I don't know of any place you can go and vote just because you pay taxes.
Just stumbled on this:

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"...Maryland law allows property owners to vote in local elections even if they live elsewhere..."
—Wikipedia
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Old 10-10-2012, 07:44 AM   #33
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NO

If you own in more than one town, pick one as your residence and vote like it matters...because it does.

I appreciate the stewardship provided by the residents of my second home town.

I believe that they know best how to manage the town they have chosen as their residence.

CT is my current residence. In a few years I'll move to NH and make it my home. I can vote then.
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Old 10-10-2012, 07:59 AM   #34
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Wow !Way to dig up an old topic from 2010.....
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Old 10-10-2012, 08:13 AM   #35
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i think you should not be able to vote to elect officials, but be able to vote on matters that pertain to your property such as taxes, programs, and what not
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Old 10-10-2012, 11:34 AM   #36
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i think you should not be able to vote to elect officials, but be able to vote on matters that pertain to your property such as taxes, programs, and what not
So are you saying we should have two different voting days? One for non residents and one for residents? The non residents can come up on any weekend in July and cast their vote...oh wait Saturdays only.
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Old 10-10-2012, 01:21 PM   #37
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You mus have known when you got your New Hampahire property that you were not allowed to vote on state and/or local matters. I have lived in several states and towns and none of them allowed nonresidents to vote on state issues or local issues out side of their main residency.

You may see this as not fair - Well life is not always fair! If you must you can sell the property which in spite of the poor real estate market would probably give you a very profitable return.
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Old 10-10-2012, 02:01 PM   #38
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You mus have known when you got your New Hampahire property that you were not allowed to vote on state and/or local matters. I have lived in several states and towns and none of them allowed nonresidents to vote on state issues or local issues out side of their main residency.

You may see this as not fair - Well life is not always fair! If you must you can sell the property which in spite of the poor real estate market would probably give you a very profitable return.

Not complaining and yes i Knew it was this way buying into a second property. It is what it is and I am willing to accept this fact, just saying it almost seems unconstitution not to be able to vote on things that directly effect me
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Old 10-10-2012, 02:40 PM   #39
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What would you all say if the town that you are a non-resident passes a bylaw that says
"if you are a non-resident your tax rate will be X and if you are a resident your tax rate will be a lot less than X"
Now would you think that non-residents should have a vote?
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Old 10-10-2012, 03:42 PM   #40
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What would you all say if the town that you are a non-resident passes a bylaw that says
"if you are a non-resident your tax rate will be X and if you are a resident your tax rate will be a lot less than X"
Now would you think that non-residents should have a vote?
Interesting question however such a "bylaw" would be illegal in NH. Property taxation in governed by NH state laws and rules.
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Old 10-10-2012, 01:36 PM   #41
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So are you saying we should have two different voting days? One for non residents and one for residents? The non residents can come up on any weekend in July and cast their vote...oh wait Saturdays only.
No, you do not need two different voting days, but two seperate ballots one for residents and one for non residents. But what I see could be a different problem. Should my sister vote for our cottage? Should I be able to also vote? Perhaps it would be two different views
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Old 10-10-2012, 01:59 PM   #42
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So are you saying we should have two different voting days? One for non residents and one for residents? The non residents can come up on any weekend in July and cast their vote...oh wait Saturdays only.
I do not know, but I believe people should have a say when it comes to the taxes, or towns they own property in. you could do absentee ballots or early voting, just like they are doing now

I do not wish to amend voting for representatives in city or state offices being a 2nd home owner, but I should be able to voice and vote my opinion on something that directly effects me

just my two cents, take it or leave it
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Old 10-10-2012, 06:34 PM   #43
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I do not know, but I believe people should have a say when it comes to the taxes, or towns they own property in. you could do absentee ballots or early voting, just like they are doing now

I do not wish to amend voting for representatives in city or state offices being a 2nd home owner, but I should be able to voice and vote my opinion on something that directly effects me

just my two cents, take it or leave it
Just for entertainment purposes let me ask a question or two, since you live in Boston you would not get the local PTV channels to watch any meetings. How would you get the information? Read the minutes of all the boards? Newspapers do have a lot of information but not enough I don't think. The town hall is closed on weekends so you would need to rely on your neighbors? Oh wait they are weekender's too! Some properties are inherited, so like John B stated who gets to vote for the family? Most (lakefront, MA residents) property owners think they pay too much to begin with. Do you real think anything that would raise taxes they would vote for?
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Old 10-10-2012, 07:56 PM   #44
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I remember when they voted in the 3% sales tax. They are known for raising taxes, that is why I left years ago,
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Old 08-30-2010, 08:33 AM   #45
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The test of voter eligibility is residency, not property ownership. If a non-resident wants to vote in any jurisdiction he must become a resident, not simply a taxpayer, of that jurisdiction. And one cannot be a resident of more than one jurisdiction. It's that simple, imo.

Suppose one (is fortunate enough) to own multiple properties in several states. Would proponents grant voting rights to that person in the several states? If that sounds ridiculous it's because it is.

In my case, being a snowbird, I faced this dilemma years ago and decided to declare NH my place of residence. I can vote here but not in Florida also. My proof of residency is my NH drivers license or another state issued ID. I can have only one of them, too.

While I can understand anyone's frustration with NH's property based tax system, because I am also hit hard by its unfairness, changing voter residency requirements is not the solution to the problem.
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Old 09-02-2010, 01:00 PM   #46
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Default In Gilford ~48% of the taxes are from NRTP

Folks,

I just did a quick EXCEL on the 2009 assessors data base for the town of Gilford. A whopping 48% of the taxes come from non resident taxpayers...who can't vote. So I guess when the locals vote to spend money its basically half price to them!

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Old 09-02-2010, 03:53 PM   #47
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Folks,

I just did a quick EXCEL on the 2009 assessors data base for the town of Gilford. A whopping 48% of the taxes come from non resident taxpayers...who can't vote. So I guess when the locals vote to spend money its basically half price to them!

Ms Merge
I beg to differ.

When your taxes go up 5%, so do mine. When Joe Doe from CT, who owns a lovely piece of real estate I can only dream of owning, sees a 5% increase in his tax bill, so do I. My 5% increase has as much of an impact on me, even though my taxes may only be $2,000/year, as it does on Joe Doe who pays $200,000/year in taxes. Simply put: an increase is an increase.

As someone who serves on a local town budget committee and school board, who owns a business and a home, believe me when I say the last thing I want to see - especially in this horrible economy - is a tax increase of any kind. I would consider a well-justified increase but nonetheless, I don't welcome it like you may think. I've never heard anyone say, "Hey, lets run up a big budget this year; the non-voting tax payers can't do a thing about it!" I do hear the people who say, "My husband's been laid off and we only have one income," or "My social security checks are getting smaller this year." I get it. I really do. It's not "party central" like you think it is when it comes to budgeting....

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Old 09-02-2010, 07:30 PM   #48
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The bottom line is that we need to stop gov't from thinking that taxpayer money is a bottomless pit that they can continually draw from. Cut spending! Stop thinking that the waterfront owner and the non-waterfront owner can continue to fund an unlimited number of programs.
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Old 09-02-2010, 09:33 PM   #49
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The bottom line is that we need to stop gov't from thinking that taxpayer money is a bottomless pit that they can continually draw from. Cut spending! Stop thinking that the waterfront owner and the non-waterfront owner can continue to fund an unlimited number of programs.
Please forgive me for also responding to this - I don't want to seem like a "know it all" but I have sat through four years - going on five - of the budget process for both the school districts and the town budget for Alton. This will be my first year as a board member. I've had four years to watch and learn, as I was a recording secretary before I ran for office and was elected. I can't speak for other towns but I do know that our town employees have forgone raises or cost of living increases, presented a level-funded budget, etc. Our schools have cut spending in numerous ways - from supplies, to going in on a co-op like buying situation with other towns for oil, to getting grants, and coming in last year with a budget at almost -6% less than the previous year's budget. It's a strange reality when your default budget is MORE than your proposed budget that's on the ballot!

Now, keep in mind, this is small town government - the local of the local... not the state level of the budget...

I will admit I don't know much about the state budget. That's one budget session I'd be interested in attending. We assume there's fat in the budget but do we know that for certain? Really, how much do we pay attention to what happens beyond our local control? Again, I admit that's an area I know very little about... but I know that on our local level the budget is reviewed by many people, cut, re-cut, and well justified before it's brought to the voters in March.

Ultimately, the real power is executed at voting time. That sorta brings us full-circle, doesn't it?
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Old 09-03-2010, 04:42 AM   #50
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Please forgive me for also responding to this - I don't want to seem like a "know it all" but I have sat through four years - going on five - of the budget process for both the school districts and the town budget for Alton. This will be my first year as a board member. I've had four years to watch and learn, as I was a recording secretary before I ran for office and was elected. I can't speak for other towns but I do know that our town employees have forgone raises or cost of living increases, presented a level-funded budget, etc. Our schools have cut spending in numerous ways - from supplies, to going in on a co-op like buying situation with other towns for oil, to getting grants, and coming in last year with a budget at almost -6% less than the previous year's budget. It's a strange reality when your default budget is MORE than your proposed budget that's on the ballot!

Now, keep in mind, this is small town government - the local of the local... not the state level of the budget...

I will admit I don't know much about the state budget. That's one budget session I'd be interested in attending. We assume there's fat in the budget but do we know that for certain? Really, how much do we pay attention to what happens beyond our local control? Again, I admit that's an area I know very little about... but I know that on our local level the budget is reviewed by many people, cut, re-cut, and well justified before it's brought to the voters in March.

Ultimately, the real power is executed at voting time. That sorta brings us full-circle, doesn't it?
I think the town of Alton must be the exception rather than the rule if the budget has been controlled as you indicate. However, the problem is that spending should be limited at ALL times, not just when the economy is slow because spending committed to in the fat times is still around when things slow down. It is too easy for government officials to see "need" for one thing or another and I would be the first to say that the need may be real BUT we simply cannot afford to do all "good" things. Politicians, by wanting to help and by the pressure of the election process to provide good will among the voters are driven to spend money with limited concern for long term consequences or viability of such spending. The only real solution to to keep government OUT of as much as possible. If it isn't government's responsibility to fix something then they can't spend money on it. Unfortunately, the population at large has a credit card mentality and thinks the bill will never come due. As you say, ultimately the power rests with the voters. However they don't show up to vote and they keep passing bloated budgets. If people were really fed up with the spending you would see a wave of town budgets being defeated but that happens only occasionally. Frankly people have become dumb and lazy. They have left it to the politicians to "take care of things" and the politicians have a HORRIBLE track record with most things they do. We probably have the government we deserve because we have been careless and foolish as an electorate.

As to the original topic, I worked in Mass most of my career but lived in NH and paid 6% income tax to Mass, far more $$$ than I pay in property tax. Mass spends money like a drunken sailor on LOTS of stuff that I would never receive benefit from and would not support and yet I got no vote in Mass either. I can't think of a single tax where it entitles someone to voting privileges no matter how unfair or significant the tax is. I could have found a job in NH but Mass has a wider variety of opportunity so I worked there and paid the tax, without a right to vote. The same is true for property. NH property is apparently attractive enough to bid the prices up to the level they have reached even with the existing property tax burden and no vote in the local government. If the system was so onerous people would not be buying up here and people wouldn't be saddled with million dollar properties.

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Old 09-03-2010, 01:43 PM   #51
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Please forgive me for also responding to this - I don't want to seem like a "know it all" but I have sat through four years - going on five - of the budget process for both the school districts and the town budget for Alton. This will be my first year as a board member. I've had four years to watch and learn, as I was a recording secretary before I ran for office and was elected. I can't speak for other towns but I do know that our town employees have forgone raises or cost of living increases, presented a level-funded budget, etc. Our schools have cut spending in numerous ways - from supplies, to going in on a co-op like buying situation with other towns for oil, to getting grants, and coming in last year with a budget at almost -6% less than the previous year's budget. It's a strange reality when your default budget is MORE than your proposed budget that's on the ballot!

Now, keep in mind, this is small town government - the local of the local... not the state level of the budget...

I will admit I don't know much about the state budget. That's one budget session I'd be interested in attending. We assume there's fat in the budget but do we know that for certain? Really, how much do we pay attention to what happens beyond our local control? Again, I admit that's an area I know very little about... but I know that on our local level the budget is reviewed by many people, cut, re-cut, and well justified before it's brought to the voters in March.

Ultimately, the real power is executed at voting time. That sorta brings us full-circle, doesn't it?
You note that the Town employees had forgone raises, can the same be said for teachers?
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Old 09-03-2010, 02:46 PM   #52
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No, they did not, but the two proposed contracts failed in March and have been renegoiated, to come before the voters for a decision this fall. Currently, the teachers' contracts have expired. (Keep in mind we have two school districts in our town.) I may be mistaken, but I don't think that the two proposed contracts, if they pass, would have an increase of one or two cents (that's pennies - not percent) on the tax rate.

The schools have returned a sizable amount of unencumbered funds over the past few years. We've had budget freezes for two years in a row and last year found our energy costs (and a few other budget line items) came in lower than we'd anticipated simply due to market shifts or cost savings we were able to make.

Speaking from my own point of view and as a parent with two children in the school system, the teachers, staff, and employees at the school go above and beyond to give back to the community. From raising money, supplies, and food for the Alton Food Pantry, donating time and materials to landscaping projects around the school, winter coat drives, building dugouts (donated time, materials, and labor), writing for grants, and much, much more, there's a lot that is done that isn't in folks general job description. It's not difficult to see the impact on the community - and it's a positive impact on the students, as well. The parents are also a big part of these efforts, of course. The sense of community is something special we have at our schools.
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Old 09-03-2010, 05:58 AM   #53
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Folks,
Alton does seem to be the exception versus the rule. Look at the tax rate. Alton is uner $12 and Gilford is over $17. I read the other day that Alton bought Gilford's old fire breathing apparatus after the Gilford voters voted to buy new equipment (recommended by the Selectman 3-0 and Budget Committee 8-1). So if its good enough for Alton why was it not good enough for Gilford? This information never seems to make it to the ballot. When its recommended you think that it is a NEED versus a want.

My comments about the locals paying half is meant to illustrate that the total cost of a budget item (like the school budget) is spread out over all the taxpayers. In Gilford's case 48% can't vote on the budgeted item even though they have to pay for it. So opposition is going to likely be much less.

As far as the non resident taxpayer accepting the taxes because they are 'rich' and own million dollar waterfront property. I will tell you this those days are coming to an end. Demographically the boomers are beginning to retire. Property taxes (especially in Gilford) will and have begun to dominate personal budgets. Folks can no longer justify the property taxes. Retirement investments and savings are in the tank. As we have seen in Gilford waterfront properties will start to sell BELOW assessed value and thus the downward spiral starts.

Kudo's to Alton for REDUCING their budget. In Gilford they only talk about zero increase....and say that cuts would hurt the town employees. My response is that the citizen/taxpayer must come first. Once the local officials prioritize the public employee OVER the citizen taxpayer I think we are in trouble. The public sector must respond just as the private sector has. The private sector prioritizes the CUSTOMER, they have to thats where the money comes from, over its employees and in the public sector we must prioritize the CITIZEN/TAXPAYER and their welfare over the pay, benefits and retirement of the public employee. The public sector, like the private sector, is employed at free will. If they don't like it and can get a better deal elsewhere they are free to go.

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Old 09-03-2010, 06:39 AM   #54
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Good post Ms. M. I totally agree with you. I think taxpayers are reaching the breaking point and the government needs to stop spending.
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Old 09-03-2010, 07:47 AM   #55
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As a great man once said " The goverment that governs least, governs best". T. Jefferson.
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Old 09-03-2010, 03:23 PM   #56
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Smile Non resident taxpayers

IN some NH towns there are more non resident taxpayers so they are paying taxes without representation and the residnets are really being subsized by the seasonal residents and inreality are not paying their share of the amenities that they have voted
A numer of folks make NH their legal residence are here for 6 months and day and do not vote or even have an interest in local government unles stheir taxes are increased substantially
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Old 09-03-2010, 03:47 PM   #57
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IN some NH towns there are more non resident taxpayers so they are paying taxes without representation and the residnets are really being subsized by the seasonal residents and inreality are not paying their share of the amenities that they have voted
A numer of folks make NH their legal residence are here for 6 months and day and do not vote or even have an interest in local government unles stheir taxes are increased substantially
Although we've covered this subject in numerous threads, just a couple of quick corrections for anyone new.

There is no such thing in New Hampshire as a "6 months and a day" rule for residency. You can be a resident of NH and never spend a day here, as long as you call nowhere else home. You also can become a resident the day you move here, and vote on that same date.

Their is no denial of rights to a non-resident that owns property here but cannot vote here. The Courts have held that every citizen has a right to vote, but that right only extends to that person's place of residency. It has nothing to do with, or is tied to, land ownership.

And while I can appreciate and understand the angst of property tax paying non-residents I can pretty well assure them that nothing is going to change in reference to that in this State anytime soon. It has been this way for decades. Remember, while it is an obvious concern to waterfront property owners particularly in the Lakes region with several communities, it is not an issue in most of the rest of the State.

Finally it is interesting to me that down here on the seacoast we have many valuable homes as well, populating the ocean and many of the bays, rivers and inlets. Many of these homes are owned by non-residents and in a few communities they make up a great percentage of the tax base. However you do not here the protests down here like you do from some in the Lakes region.

Interesting.....I have an idea why but I will defer the speculation to others for now.
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Old 09-03-2010, 03:56 PM   #58
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If you don't like it, why do you stay as a non resident. Wherever you file your federal income tax is your legal residence. Try enrolling as in-state residence at any state run school, ie, UNH, UCONN, UMASS etc.
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Old 09-03-2010, 07:49 PM   #59
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After reading posts by Argie's Wife and some others it seems to me that residents have a much greater grasp and understanding of the workings of a town and it's people, it's real financial needs, it's operation, it's social needs and much more. Residents vote based on that knowledge. I suspect non residents would vote based on how it would affect the tax on their vacation property, I know I probably would. It doesn't seem a decision based only on tax rate would be good for the wellbeing of a town as a whole. JMHO.
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Old 09-05-2010, 01:55 PM   #60
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After reading posts by Argie's Wife and some others it seems to me that residents have a much greater grasp and understanding of the workings of a town and it's people, it's real financial needs, it's operation, it's social needs and much more. Residents vote based on that knowledge. I suspect non residents would vote based on how it would affect the tax on their vacation property, I know I probably would. It doesn't seem a decision based only on tax rate would be good for the wellbeing of a town as a whole. JMHO.
I hate to say this but I don't think most people have any idea of what they are voting on. I wish they did. They think if the selectmen or the planning board or the school board recommend it, it must be good for us. I would not vote if I didn't have a thorough understanding of what I am voting on.
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Old 09-05-2010, 08:55 PM   #61
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I hate to say this but I don't think most people have any idea of what they are voting on. I wish they did. They think if the selectmen or the planning board or the school board recommend it, it must be good for us. I would not vote if I didn't have a thorough understanding of what I am voting on.
You may be quite right tis but as you said, if you as a resident didn't have a thorough understanding of the issue you would not vote on it. There are many that would not be hindered by not having a thorough understanding.

My experience years ago was that my cousins in Wolfeboro knew the unpublished details of everything that happened in town and why they should vote yes or no on an issue. That may not be the case now for many.
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Old 09-03-2010, 10:23 PM   #62
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Although we've covered this subject in numerous threads, just a couple of quick corrections for anyone new.

There is no such thing in New Hampshire as a "6 months and a day" rule for residency. You can be a resident of NH and never spend a day here, as long as you call nowhere else home. You also can become a resident the day you move here, and vote on that same date.

Their is no denial of rights to a non-resident that owns property here but cannot vote here. The Courts have held that every citizen has a right to vote, but that right only extends to that person's place of residency. It has nothing to do with, or is tied to, land ownership.

And while I can appreciate and understand the angst of property tax paying non-residents I can pretty well assure them that nothing is going to change in reference to that in this State anytime soon. It has been this way for decades. Remember, while it is an obvious concern to waterfront property owners particularly in the Lakes region with several communities, it is not an issue in most of the rest of the State.

Finally it is interesting to me that down here on the seacoast we have many valuable homes as well, populating the ocean and many of the bays, rivers and inlets. Many of these homes are owned by non-residents and in a few communities they make up a great percentage of the tax base. However you do not here the protests down here like you do from some in the Lakes region.

Interesting.....I have an idea why but I will defer the speculation to others for now.

What is your idea, my speculating capabilities are very poor?
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Old 09-04-2010, 10:30 PM   #63
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What is your idea, my speculating capabilities are very poor?
I read it as your speculating powers are so great that he need not assist!

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Old 09-05-2010, 05:30 AM   #64
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228 non residents of NH and 111 residents of NH Guess how they are voting?
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Old 09-05-2010, 07:49 AM   #65
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228 non residents of NH and 111 residents of NH Guess how they are voting?
In all of NH? Wow... I knew we had more trees than people but only 111 residents in NH?
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Old 09-05-2010, 09:08 AM   #66
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Now, you know I'm talking about the forum members that have voted.
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Old 09-05-2010, 10:31 AM   #67
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Now, you know I'm talking about the forum members that have voted.

Now that you've explained it, I do.

Sorry but that's not a measurement of the number of resident voters and non-residents who wish to vote, but the number of respondents who answered "yes" or "no" when asked if non-resident tax payers should be allowed to vote.

There's 5361 registered members on the forum. At this time, 230 posters responded with a yes vote, and 116 posters have responded with a no vote. The combined number of respondents is less than 6.5% of the total registered members on this forum. In other words, it's not enough of a response on which you can base any trend at this point.

I would also wager that if this same poll had been posted in the winter months, when we have fewer seasonal posters active in the forum that your poll results would be quite different.
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Old 09-05-2010, 08:58 PM   #68
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... There's 5361 registered members on the forum. At this time, 230 posters responded with a yes vote, and 116 posters have responded with a no vote. ....
Since I don't own property there I did not vote in the poll.
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Old 10-11-2012, 05:52 AM   #69
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There is no such thing in New Hampshire as a "6 months and a day" rule for residency. You can be a resident of NH and never spend a day here, as long as you call nowhere else home. You also can become a resident the day you move here, and vote on that same date.
Best read up on this one.

This did go to the NH Supreme Court.
It is six months and a day or similiar wording.

This has nothing to do with a new person moving to NH, registering to vote, and voting.
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Old 10-11-2012, 07:33 AM   #70
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Default Registering to vote

The form requires a signed statement to the following:

Quote:
I understand that to vote in this city/town, I must be at least 18 years of age, I must be a United States citizen, and I must be domiciled in this city/town.
I understand that I can claim only one city/town as my domicile at a time. A domicile is that place, more than any other, where I sleep most nights of the year, or to which I intend to return after a temporary absence. By registering or voting today, I acknowledge that I am not registering to vote or voting in any other city/town.
I acknowledge that I have read and understand the above qualifications for voting and do hereby swear, under the penalties for voting fraud set forth below, that I am qualified to vote in the above-stated city/town, and, if registering on election day, that I have not voted and will not vote at any other polling place this election.

____________________ ____________________
Date Signature


In accordance with RSA 659:34, the penalty for knowingly or purposefully providing false information when registering to vote or voting is a class A misdemeanor with a maximum sentence of imprisonment not to exceed one year and a fine not to exceed $2,000. Fraudulently registering to vote or voting is subject to a civil penalty not to exceed $5,000.
See:
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/.../654/654-7.htm
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Old 10-11-2012, 05:07 PM   #71
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The form requires a signed statement to the following:



See:
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/.../654/654-7.htm
One of your rights to travel freely about these United States is to call any State your home (domicle or residence) at any time you choose. Restrictions of time spent in the state have mostly been removed from state law. Wording above is so vague that I could spend as little as a day in New Hampsire and still be a legal voter. I intend to call NH my residence and will spend about 5 months there. I own property in another state and will spend some of the remaining time there. I also plan to spend several months in rented property in a warm part of the world. I will register my vehicles along with registering to vote in NH. If all the states had a rule that I had to live in their state for 6 months and a day I would be a man without a residence. Of course I can only have 1 residence at a time.
As to voting where you own property that could get out of hand with many people owning multiple properties in many states. How could the property owner possibly be informed. However, in areas with high out of state ownership such as the lakes region, the residents and elected officials
need to keep in mind that the non residents are helping to maintain their road, pay their teachers etc. When the opportunity to give something to the non resident taxpayer arises they should jump at the opportunity. In Meredith we Island residents finally got a new dock at Cattle landing. While we are grateful, funding for this dock was voted down by the residents many times over the last 20 years. Why? Because they could. A request to set aside some puplic dock space for Island residents was dismissed out of hand as a land owner choice issue by the council. They felt it would be unfair to treat Island property owners (sub. non-resident) different from residents by giving them preference to part of the town owned docks. ARE THEY KIDDING? Is that not what they do for their residents now vs the non resident taxpayer?
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Old 11-18-2012, 07:50 PM   #72
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Wording above is so vague that I could spend as little as a day in New Hampsire and still be a legal voter.
Not according to the NH Supreme Court.
It is 180 days plus one. If you have another home where you spend most of your time.

But in practical matters, as long as you don't vote anywhere else, no one really cares how long you spend outside NH.
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Old 11-18-2012, 10:16 PM   #73
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WickedGoodOutdoors, I just noticed that you are fairly new to posting on the forum and glad you have joined us. Have fun and enjoy the Winni Forum while making many new friends. Glad you put in your 2¢ in.

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Old 10-10-2012, 08:16 PM   #74
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My biggest issue with not having a say is that we pay the same taxes as a resident and can't we still have to pay ad a Non resident when registering boats, snowmobiles and other recreational veichles.
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Old 10-11-2012, 04:22 AM   #75
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My biggest issue with not having a say is that we pay the same taxes as a resident and can't we still have to pay ad a Non resident when registering boats, snowmobiles and other recreational veichles.
That is a different subject then taxes but one I totally agree with.
States should just throw out the resident none-resident registration fee's and have one flat fee.
In Maine I've seen first hand that none-residents appreciate the trails and all that is done to keep them up, more than residents do.
This is evident by the people you see show up when work needs to be done and the majority are none-residents, many like us having to drive 4+ hours and paying over $100 in fuel to make the round trip.
Maine has chosen to keep their resident snowmobile and ATV registrations at less then HALF of what none-residents pay and the MSA supports this and in fact advocates for keeping it this way.
As a tax paying none-resident who has done everything to support clubs except drive a groomer I have a serious problem with this.
So I've contacted the MSA and let them know that until something is done I will pay my Maine property taxes and my $89 registration while residents pay $43, but I do no more. No more joining a club, no more dropping money in the trail fund jar and not one hour of services.
The higher ups who make these decisions need to realize that the people who don't live where they ride as a whole appreciate and are willing to help more then the residents are.

But other then that I do not think none-residents should be allowed to vote in local elections.
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Old 10-11-2012, 09:45 AM   #76
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I've resigned myself to the fact that I don't have a say to the crazy spending that takes place in Moultonborough. The only saving grace is there's enough valuation there to take some of the sting out of it.

I would love to see what the Moultonborough budgets would look like if the town had to survive on the resident tax revenue. I'm pretty sure town meeting would be a blast if the tax rates were similar to what they are in many of the towns around the state.

I understand that a portion of the spending is variable because of the summer influx but that has also been a crutch many of the departments use to increase their coffers (the Taj comes immediately to mind) and can't even be used as an excuse for the pretty high school district costs.
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Old 10-11-2012, 11:49 AM   #77
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It just wouldn't work because the non-resident is always going to vote down town expenses that he does not utilize. The biggest being the school system. It is typically the largest budget item and one that the non-resident doesn't use in any way, so he will vote against any expenditure for it.
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Old 10-11-2012, 12:16 PM   #78
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It just wouldn't work because the non-resident is always going to vote down town expenses that he does not utilize. The biggest being the school system. It is typically the largest budget item and one that the non-resident doesn't use in any way, so he will vote against any expenditure for it.
I don't agree. Using your logic, any resident of the town without kids or grandkids of school age or under will always vote against education spending.

Maybe I'm being too idealistic, but I think it's in everyone's interest to have well-educated citizens, no matter where that education is obtained. If I was allowed to vote in local elections as a non-resident, I would absolutely support local education, even if my family didn't "utilize" it.
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Old 10-11-2012, 01:06 PM   #79
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NH HB 1161 was introduced on January 4th, 2012 for an act establishing a committee to study permitting nonresident property owners to vote in local elections. The bill was sponsored by House Representative Mark Warden (r) Hillsborough.

Status: INEXPEDIENT TO LEGISLATE
Status Date: 2/8/2012
Current Committee: ELECTION LAW
Committee of Referral: ELECTION LAW
Date Introduced: 1/4/2012
Due out of Committee: 2/23/2012
Floor Date: 2/8/2012

http://gencourt.state.nh.us/bill_sta...nyear=2012&q=1
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Old 10-12-2012, 12:12 PM   #80
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I don't agree. Using your logic, any resident of the town without kids or grandkids of school age or under will always vote against education spending.

Maybe I'm being too idealistic, but I think it's in everyone's interest to have well-educated citizens, no matter where that education is obtained. If I was allowed to vote in local elections as a non-resident, I would absolutely support local education, even if my family didn't "utilize" it.
I don't agree. While some residents without kids will want to have good schools because it increases their property value and other values, I think that some residents without kids will tend to vote against school expenses. Either way they are counter balanced by the residents that do have kids. All non-residents don't have kids attending the schools so they will always side to the "against" side. And because the non-residents are a fairly large number they would skew the numbers to the against side considerably.
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Old 10-12-2012, 01:15 PM   #81
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I don't agree. While some residents without kids will want to have good schools because it increases their property value and other values, I think that some residents without kids will tend to vote against school expenses. Either way they are counter balanced by the residents that do have kids. All non-residents don't have kids attending the schools so they will always side to the "against" side. And because the non-residents are a fairly large number they would skew the numbers to the against side considerably.
Well, then I guess that we'll agree to disagree. My main objection is with your use of the word "always," as in "All non-residents don't have kids attending the schools so they will always side to the "against" side." Using absolutes in any argument can be tricky, and if I were allowed to vote in a local election as a non-resident, I would not "always" vote against school expenses. Who knows, maybe I'm the one exception to your rule, but I doubt it.

As I mentioned earlier, perhaps I'm too idealistic, but I like to think that voting for or against stuff that takes taxpayer dollars isn't always about the individual taxpayer's immediate bottom line; it's also about what you get, as a citizen, and not directly, for the money spent. Good schools and well-educated kids are a good thing for everyone, not just the parents and families of the school kids. If you're not homeless, do you automatically vote against spending tax dollars on homeless shelters and other assistance? If you don't ever use the town parks and recreation facilities, do you always vote to defund those programs? I hope not, because otherwise, why live in a community?
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Old 10-14-2012, 09:57 AM   #82
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I was recently talking to a family member of mine who has owned waterfront in Wolfeboro since the late 60s. They attended a town meeting and was insulted by the fact whoever it was from the town that was speaking referred to the water front owners as "cash cows". Sure you can sell and move on, but that's not the point.
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Old 10-14-2012, 11:27 AM   #83
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I was recently talking to a family member of mine who has owned waterfront in Wolfeboro since the late 60s. They attended a town meeting and was insulted by the fact whoever it was from the town that was speaking referred to the water front owners as "cash cows". Sure you can sell and move on, but that's not the point.
"Cash Cows" are a product, business, etc, that generates a continuous flow of money or a high proportion of overall profits.

Wolfeboro gets @70% of it operating revenue from "water front" property owners.

I would say that the term "Cash Cows" that was used by someone at the "town meeting" was/is pretty accurate.
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Old 10-14-2012, 02:11 PM   #84
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"Cash Cows" are a product, business, etc, that generates a continuous flow of money or a high proportion of overall profits.

Wolfeboro gets @70% of it operating revenue from "water front" property owners.

I would say that the term "Cash Cows" that was used by someone at the "town meeting" was/is pretty accurate.
From what I've been told Gilford is the same way. Most of their tax money comes from waterfront homes.
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Old 10-12-2012, 08:35 AM   #85
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Non-Residents can attend town meetings & hearings and voice thier opinion even if they cannot vote! The problem with letting non-resident taxpayers vote in local elections is that non-residents do not neccesarily have the towns best interest at stake.

For example if you live in Tewksbury, MA you might have voted for the new High School (and subsequent tax increase) because your kids may attend that school or for some other reason it benefits you to do so. So you are ok with the extra tax burden.

Your second home is located up here in Gilford, most Non-Residents would probably vote not to build a new high school (and associated tax increase) because it has NO benefit to them whatsoever!

The bottom line is this.... if you want to vote up here then move up here! make this your PRIMARY residence.

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Old 10-22-2012, 01:20 PM   #86
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Non-Residents can attend town meetings & hearings and voice thier opinion even if they cannot vote! The problem with letting non-resident taxpayers vote in local elections is that non-residents do not neccesarily have the towns best interest at stake.

For example if you live in Tewksbury, MA you might have voted for the new High School (and subsequent tax increase) because your kids may attend that school or for some other reason it benefits you to do so. So you are ok with the extra tax burden.

Your second home is located up here in Gilford, most Non-Residents would probably vote not to build a new high school (and associated tax increase) because it has NO benefit to them whatsoever!

The bottom line is this.... if you want to vote up here then move up here! make this your PRIMARY residence.

Woodsy
GREAT answer.

Think of a situation: a Cambridge, MA business owner, the business owns the real estate in Cambridge which houses the business, and the owner resides and owns his/her residence in Arlington, nearby. He can vote in only ONE community!

Same is true for second homeowners between Lakes Region vacation property and another State. Only one is the residence where you vote!
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Old 10-22-2012, 01:58 PM   #87
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However, I believe a UNH student from MA can now vote in NH. Wasn't this a latest NH Supreme Court decision or lower court?
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Old 10-22-2012, 05:07 PM   #88
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However, I believe a UNH student from MA can now vote in NH. Wasn't this a latest NH Supreme Court decision or lower court?
Oh yes, but that's different And of course that student can vote in Mass. too.... My son attends UMaine, and voted absentee. He is not going to vote in Maine also. That's the way it's SUPPOSED to work.

I think we all understand the reason for the particular court's decision and of course we also know who most students are going to vote for this election. 'Nuff said.
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Old 10-22-2012, 05:37 PM   #89
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IslandRadio That's what I was thinking also.
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Old 10-22-2012, 03:07 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by no-engine View Post
GREAT answer.

Think of a situation: a Cambridge, MA business owner, the business owns the real estate in Cambridge which houses the business, and the owner resides and owns his/her residence in Arlington, nearby. He can vote in only ONE community!

Same is true for second homeowners between Lakes Region vacation property and another State. Only one is the residence where you vote!
I dont think this situation would work, as a business, you cannot vote, only individuals can vote.

I do not know how to do it, but there needs to be some say. I am all for town meetings, but because I do not vote for the people running the meetings non resident cares and concerns falls on deaf ears a lot
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Old 11-03-2012, 12:43 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AC2717 View Post
I dont think this situation would work, as a business, you cannot vote, only individuals can vote.

I do not know how to do it, but there needs to be some say. I am all for town meetings, but because I do not vote for the people running the meetings non resident cares and concerns falls on deaf ears a lot
I did not say the business votes. I was thinking the business owner.

November 3 today. Let's all move on. Suppose I owned property with sleeping quarters in Cambridge, MA, Arlington, MA, Wolfeboro, NH, Bear Island on Lake W, and a town in northern Maine (maybe for my fishing pleasure). Where would I vote? I must claim ONE as my domicile or residence. Always been that, and always will.

One can attend any town meeting, city council meeting, or any corporate meeting; one will be permitted to speak to an issue provided the chair recognizes and one would identify themselves as a non-voting person. Done all the time at corporate meetings, merely following Roberts Rules of order.

Over & out, now go vote in one's domicile. I'll be so happy when all the bantering and finger pointing ads are over!!!
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Old 11-05-2012, 11:23 AM   #92
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If you're voting in NH tomorrow, remember to bring your ID!
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Old 11-06-2012, 06:51 AM   #93
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Especially if you are driving to the polls.
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Old 11-18-2012, 10:49 AM   #94
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ONLY Property Onwers should be able to Vote!

They have a vested finacial interest hereas Non-Land Owners do not.


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Old 10-10-2012, 09:04 PM   #95
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VOTE Where you live.....simple! WHY do "visitors" want to own everything?


Quote:
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Should non resident tax payers get to vote in the March town elections? These are the elections where towns vote on Zoning Ordinances, election of local officials and tax and budget issues.
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Old 10-10-2012, 10:40 PM   #96
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So different priorities and perspective are the reasons a lake area property tax paying person should not be allowed a vote? I think not. I recall discussing with my wife how our real estate taxes paid in two states, where funding the construction of four schools. We are in favor of all these improvements. I would however appreciate the right to vote in both locations.
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