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04-01-2019, 01:59 PM | #1 |
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This is my boat maintenance thread
A few years ago I bought a 1987 Sea Ray Weekender 268 for reasonably short money. The boat was in fantastic shape and was clearly well-cared for its entire life.
The story was that the original owners had passed on and the boat went into storage for many years until the daughter and her husband purchased it from the estate of the daughter's parents. The daughter and her husband sent the boat to a marina for assessment and repairs. The nature of the repairs included a new Alpha outdrive as well as replacing the 454 shortblock, bellows, cables etc. After a couple years of ownership, the couple discovered this isn't the boat for them and they put it up for sale. As a result of impeccable timing, I found the sale ad, spoke with the husband and eventually agreed on a sale price. I was quite excited about the work that was recently performed on my new boat and that would allow me to concentrate on other things that required attention...the teak, the need for scrubbing and waxing the gel coat and the types of items that could otherwise be taken care of on the water for the most part. One small thing that bugged me, though, was knowing the Alpha drive wasn't exactly up to the task of handling the Big Block power out of the hole and with that, I could never feel safe hitting the throttle without the potential of stripping the Alpha gearbox. A detail I was willing to live with. The purchase of my boat was made late enough in the season to where we enjoyed it only twice then proceeded to winterize it. That following spring is where my joy of boating would immediately be challenged. Our maiden voyage for (what was supposed to be) an amazing season, we splashed into Alton Bay in early May on an overcast but otherwise perfect day. We blasted across the lake to Meredith for lunch then up to Moultonboro for sight-seeing before heading back. For much of the day I noticed that the temp gauge would spike after coming off plane but it was manageable if I slowly backed off the throttle. First thought was the impeller was degrading...even though it didn't make much sense considering the extensive parts list prior to my purchase. About 6hrs after launching, we made our way from lunch in Meredith up to Moultonboro. As we circled out of Moutonboro I decided to go WOT for the first time just to experience full song of the Big Block. This lasted all of 3 minutes and act of going WOT would prove to be something that uncovered a very big issue, and likely the source of my temp spike. As we made our way back toward Downing's Landing, a loud tapping slowly developed. It could have been anything...I was praying for a circulating pump or power steering pump or alternator, anything. However, as I lifted the engine cover I knew....I just knew the answer and my answer was going to cost many thousands of dollars. My new short block was grinding itself to death due to what was later found to be a blown head gasket and water intrusion to the oil (mechanic not torquing any of the fasteners properly). Ugh! After some forum posts and a few private messages, I discovered I was cultivating a new friendship with someone who couldn't be more valuable with their guidance. I also found I got along very well with this person and we shared laughs in a lot of the same things. Anyway, certainly a great person with a lot of information to offer and a refreshing new face that I quickly learned to call "friend". Engine #2 was located in a town near me. I saw it run on an engine stand in front of me prior to purchase and all seemed well. It was crusty and old but it burned gas and made power. Installed that engine toward the end of the season and chose to fire it up that following spring rather than fire and winterize right away. Come that spring, I complete all the details of the engine install for #2 and proceed to turn the key for the first time....crank, crank, crank, crank.....crank, crank, crank, backfire through the carb. I cannot explain in words what took place but this no starting issue was eventually traced to an intake valve on cylinder 5 was stuck open so badly that it required a hammer and punch in order for it to be completely removed from the head. This, to say the least, was frustrating. Engine #2 had to be removed for the ensuing head work as much of the hardware would clearly require some torch work. The silver lining here is that a 454 with Alpha drive can be removed from my boat in 40-45 minutes with an extra hand. After correcting all the crusty hardware, lapping valves/ head rebuild and reinstalling the engine once again, the joys of Engine #2 would be short lived as I would soon discover considerable blow-by taking place and eventually a spark issue developed that remains undiagnosed. Ugh! Another season passes. And so I gave up. I gave up on fighting this old technology. I gave up on worrying about the Alpha drive blowing up (if I ever did get an engine to run properly). I gave up on putting my energy toward fighting. Clearly my boat needs something...maybe a new captain? Maybe I should scuttle it on the Witches? Maybe I am simply not to enjoy this kind of family time? BAH! Horse puckey! I looked to my friend for the next steps. I talked with him about what I'd really want to do, which was to go with fuel injection and at least a Bravo...but this would mean a transom assy because the Alpha certainly wouldn't take the extra 50hp over the carb'ed 454 and even a built 350 might present some issues. Ultimately a 350 was not the desirable route for a few reasons. As I began to peruse sale ads, I eventually found an engine and outdrive combo that fit the bill...a fuel injected big block and Bravo III outdrive with transom assy. Everything was matched serial numbers, the seller knows the history and it's all with ~400hrs on it. Took a drive to CT, met the seller and saw the entire package all winterized and wrapped on a skid...all removed at the marina due to hull failure. After some back-and-forth on pricing, we settled on a good place for both of us and I went back down to CT and scooped up my fuelie big block and transom assy. This season will be the biggest project yet as I look to prepare the transom to accept the Bravo then install an engine that was made 12 years after the boat was produced and make it all work as intended. The intent of this thread is to capture my story as a DIY boat owner. To provide information as I learn it and to hopefully show someone that boats aren't scary, they're just a gigantic pain in the ass that is totally worth the price of admission provided there is enough love and patience. This is my boat maintenance thread... |
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04-01-2019, 04:26 PM | #2 |
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Quite the saga. I appreciate your patience. I've replaced an engine (new) under warranty, and once with a used engine on another boat. The new engine with the dealer doing the work under warranty was much the more pleasant experience. And another year warranty. Obviously, that was the (way) more expensive situation. Happy Boating.
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04-01-2019, 04:37 PM | #3 |
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Oh poor POOR Richard! I feel sorry for you!
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04-02-2019, 07:39 AM | #4 |
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B.o.a.t
I feel bad for Poor Richard, and after reading his sad tale of woe, I couldn't help but think how apropos his user name is.
It also reminds me of the meaning of B.O.A.T. : Bring Out Another Thousand (or more, and in this case, much more )
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04-02-2019, 08:15 AM | #5 |
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I have to put a couple new trim solenoid's in my boat before it goes in the water and I'm not happy about that. Trying to contort this 65 year old body down in the bilge will probably leave me in traction for a week.
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04-02-2019, 09:39 PM | #6 | |
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Quote:
Thanks
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04-01-2019, 04:53 PM | #7 |
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Seems every saga boat story starts this way...… I swear is was a really good deal. Three engines later? That's pretty tough.
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04-01-2019, 05:55 PM | #8 |
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:)
There is a much easier way. Just saying.... haha
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04-01-2019, 06:31 PM | #9 |
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Boating is suppose to be fun and relaxing. IMO, If you are spending more time taking care of your boat than being out on the water enjoying it then that's not boating.
Although if you enjoy working on your boat then, more power to you. I have better things to do with the very little spare time that I have. |
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04-01-2019, 06:36 PM | #10 | |
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I hope everything works out for you--certainly frustrating when things don't go right. Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using Tapatalk |
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04-01-2019, 06:42 PM | #11 |
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Moral of the story.... GET. A. SURVEY!
Woodsy
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04-01-2019, 08:15 PM | #13 |
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Ebay has a new Yamaha 300-hp outboard for $26,000 that would easily solve this engine problem ...... just back the boat up to Ebay .....and slap that outboard onto the transom ...... easy!
Like, why mess with an inboard-outboard?
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04-01-2019, 09:02 PM | #14 |
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Let's hope your transom is solid.
You will find out when you switch the transom assembly. Good luck! |
04-01-2019, 09:22 PM | #15 |
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Surveys are a get what you pay for business... you can have just hull integrity checked (water/rot/cracks/etc) all the way up to full motor checks with fuel & engine oil sent out for analysis. Last time I had one I paid $40/ft for full scan. That was years ago.
If you paid the $$$ a compression test and a leak down test should/would have been performed in an attempt to confirm the health of the motors... any head gasket issues (if they existed then) would have shown up. Its also quite possible the water impeller disintegrated or wasn't installed properly. Its in the middle of the Alpha and the little tube can crack or break (it gets brittle) and cause the overheat condition that can in turn cause a blown head gasket. Woodsy
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04-01-2019, 10:31 PM | #16 |
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In the not too distant past, I have paid $150 for a home inspection on a $2500K house and $450 for a survey on a $75K boat. One tool 90 minutes and the other took a three hours, followed by sea trials and a hull exam with a review after some repairs were made. The home inspection, relatively speaking was a joke, but the bank required it. A $5K furnace replacement was not found in the home inspection. $6K in running gear was found and fixed after the marine survey. What do you think was the relative value?
BTW, the bank required a certified "Homer inspector". I also used my own HVAC guy, not a "Home inspector" and the seller paid for a new furnace. |
04-02-2019, 07:23 AM | #17 |
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eesh.. that's a rough beginning with a new-to-you boat. i feel for ya bud. it sucks when you end up with someone else's headache. i don't think i would've gone as far as you have, i likely would've traded that sucker after the first motor tanked on me. but hey, if you love the thing and want to make it right, i fully understand that thought process. keep us posted on your progress and good luck! you deserve some...
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04-02-2019, 09:38 AM | #18 |
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At this point I can't help but smile, chuckle and keep moving on.
The way I see it is we can pontificate all day long about a survey. My opinion on the matter is that a survey likely would not have caught the issue with the 1st engine. Let's not assume anything else that I did or did not do leading up to my purchase. I have the right people and skills and did not go into this blindly. Someone did not perform their job correctly on the engine work and it took whatever set of circumstances and/ or time for it to become fully exposed. The second engine was where I gambled and lost. I knew at that time I "should" have gone for the Bravo upgrade right then and there. It all comes down to this...she's spat out two mills now. She wants the upgrades and I'm not going to fight her on this any longer. Writing a check for another boat.......... Anyone can do it that way! Lazy bums! With all of the fun I've posted, I am able to post all of it with a certain appreciation in the amount of knowledge that I gained about my specific boat as well as going on a much deeper dive than I've ever been with regards to marine applications. We are at today and I own all of the steps I have taken. "Woe is me" isn't the message here. Sure, I felt frustrated and defeated at one point. I also happened to develop an exceptional friendship in all this. The reward will be worth every ounce of the friction it took to arrive here. |
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04-02-2019, 09:54 AM | #19 |
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Love your attitude. Thanks for sharing.
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04-02-2019, 11:01 AM | #20 |
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Sad story but I'd have to ask if a 30+ year old boat merits this much work? I believe this is known as the "Sunk Cost Fallacy", no pun intended. In any event, Good Luck!
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04-02-2019, 09:49 PM | #21 |
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Poor Richard,
This thread makes me very happy to read. I applaud you on your adventure on sticking through all the repairs of this boat since you've owned it. Certainly not easy or cheap for the average person but I can tell right away you're above average to get it done and not giving up. Like others have said to look at certain things, I'm recommending the same. Inspect the transom assembly of the boat hull for any soft spots. Now is the time to do anything needed before installing the new parts. Aside from the usual way to handle the repairs, if you need any help with this project don't hesitate to ask. There's many useful people with many years of knowledge and experience to side you with this. I am one of those people myself. If for any reason any question you may think you have, just ask. Looking forward to seeing this progress over the next few weeks or however long it may take to hopefully see this boat on the lake this season.
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04-03-2019, 11:48 AM | #22 |
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This is a good thread.... I like it... a man and his boat.
Now on the topic of a survey... I don't disagree they can be useful. But I also believe that there is a time and place for them... if you spending 30 or 40 K on a used boat, yes get a survey.... If your spending less then 10K, you need to weigh the pros and cons..... I didn't get a survey on my last boat... yep, maybe they would have caught the blistering issue maybe not, it didn't become real apparent until the third year I owned the boat..... In the end I likely would have bought the boat in the end, because I liked it that much... In the end if I had the boat surveys at 40$ per foot = 1K extra to the cost of the boat.... and the epoxy coat below the waterline I would have still had installed.... So in the end, I saved myself 1K.... If you get into boating worried about the cost of repairs and maintaining the boat, you are not a boater... If you get into it thinking about the fun you can have, and the fact that you are never going to see a profit in owning a boat just like a car, your one the right track.... Does anyone get a survey for a car when they buy it?
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04-09-2019, 09:51 AM | #23 | |
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This project will be a relatively slow one in the sense that there is a lot of work to do for things to be proper. I was informed of something called "Bravoitis" and my BravoIII has been stricken with it. There are some other items that need attention as well...steering linkage, paint and quite possibly a gimbal bearing. On the engine, it's looking like a starter and some exhaust manifold work is in order as well as replacing the busted pulley for the Bravo water pump. And while there weren't any error codes to speak of, it seems the TPS is not reporting correctly in that it never sees 100% open. So, there's a little work to be had on the engine as well. The one detail I have yet to account for at this point in time is when the current "Bralpha" set up is removed. It comes down to a storage issue once that's all been gutted, more so with the engine. Ideally I'd want to sell the combo of the Alpha transom assy/ Bravo engine as a package. Perhaps I will find a buyer in advance... |
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04-09-2019, 06:49 PM | #24 | |
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Last edited by Cal Coon; 04-10-2019 at 04:09 AM. |
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05-07-2019, 06:42 AM | #25 |
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own Vs club
Have a home here in FL and one on the lake. Own a '14 26' Four Winns up there and in a boat club down here. You are so RIGHT!. Owning a boat is insanely expensive and a PITA. That said, there's something to be said about having your boat on the dock and ready to go. I would never own a boat in Naples. It would ruin the experience but on he lake? We are fortunate and can afford it so I probably wouldn't change but it's a close call!
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05-07-2019, 09:38 AM | #26 | |
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05-07-2019, 10:30 AM | #27 |
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Your local town transfer station could have a drive-on scale for weighing vehicles and trailers, coming and going, and charging by the pound ….. which they probably let you use for free, just to weigh it, and give you a printed weight receipt.
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05-07-2019, 11:56 AM | #28 |
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That's how I know how much my boat weighs.
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06-03-2019, 02:15 PM | #29 |
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So, before any real boat work can commence, sorting out the trailer is first on the list. I will be respringing for 9000lbs.
Right now I'm in leaf spring hell as I discovered a busted leaf on my Tundra...this in addition to the four spring stacks that are being replaced/ uprated on the trailer. I have sent everything over to Donovan Spring in Londonderry, NH as they have done great work for me over the years. This past weekend involved many jack stands to support the boat/ trailer combo then dropping both trailer axles followed by dropping the right rear of the truck and removing that spring stack. One notable issue with the trailer that I am trying to figure out is, one of the greasable shackle bolts somehow welded itself to the spring mount on the trailer frame. None of the others were like this however, I was certainly impressed to see my brazing tip and a small sledgehammer were not enough to break it free. At this point I want to be careful here as I prefer not to burn off the galvanizing layer so it's time to dust off the air chisel, add heat and go to town! Pics coming soon. |
06-03-2019, 05:47 PM | #30 |
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Just "respringing" the trailer for 9000lbs does not give you a 9000lb rating.... just a 9000lb crappy ride for your boat.
Woodsy
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06-03-2019, 07:09 PM | #31 |
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Would you say it's more crappy or less crappy than the worn out suspension that bottoms out whenever a tire hits an acorn?
What do you suggest for options? Air ride? The breath of 1000 virgins? |
06-04-2019, 08:38 AM | #32 |
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Poor Richard...
Since you so sarcastically asked... I suggest you get an accurate weight on your boat and set the trailer up accordingly. According to SeaRay (those smart people who built your boat)... The dry weight of your boat is 5425lbs Fuel tank 100 gals (6lb/gal) = 600lbs Water Tank 24 gals (8lb/gal) = 200lbs Misc Boat Stuff (lifejackets/coolers etc)= 275lbs - this is a stretch! Total weight of Boat = 6500lbs If you spring your trailer for 7000lbs - 7500lbs you will be right where you want to be. 9000lb springs are not only overkill, they are potentially dangerous as the suspension will have no give.... Make sure you check the tongue weight with the new springs and adjust the boat position on the trailer accordingly. (This assumes your current trailer is actually rated for the weight of the boat - check the title) Here is the link to the SeaRay data sheet... https://www.searay.com/www.searay.co...DERNKGJ526.pdf Woodsy
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06-04-2019, 12:17 PM | #33 |
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Trailer's spec'd for 7500 and it's not enough, even considering the sagging
SeaRay's numbers are not correct. I do a lot of towing and this boat is certainly heavier than 6500. I've had 6k of stone behind my Tundra and the truck is working much harder with the boat in tow. DaveR's response is much closer to what I believe is the true weight And my sarcastic response....just having a little fun. There wasn't much to go by from your post so I responded in an equally "helpful" manner. |
06-04-2019, 01:03 PM | #34 |
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If you "think" your boat weighs more.... then take it to a commercial scale and get a true weight....
IMHO there is no way in hell that boat weighs ANYTHING close to 9000lbs! Woodsy
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06-04-2019, 07:23 PM | #35 |
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Woodsy, my love, no one is saying my boat weighs 9k.
I am springing for 9k because the boat is certainly heavier than Sea Ray's advertised dry weight with full provisions considered. Engines are missing from the math and those options came in the form of a single 454, single 350 or twin 350's. I'll leave you to surmise which engine was equipped for Sea Ray's dry weight calculation. The capacity of the hot water and gray water holding tanks, respectively, were not calculated in your post. I also carry full toolbox in the midship storage plus oils, fluids, cleaners, spare parts, etc, a couple anchors, some lengths of chain, plus the items for "surviving" on the water with my wife and kiddo. There will be a slight increase to weight once the 7.4 MPI and B3 are installed. If someone like DaveR is packing 1700lbs over dry weight of his Regal in full cruise mode that would still put me at 7125lbs even if 5425 is the calculated weight. I would certainly not spring for 7500 lbs even if these numbers were true because it would be far too close to the max capacity of the springs. Having 2k lbs in suspension headroom with a 7000 pound vehicle will be just fine. Heck, my tractor is just about 4k and that thing runs around on a trailer rated for 7500 lbs and all is well! I ask for you to trust that the person who is typing this has done the homework, has sought several opinions and inputs from a few sources and is moving forward with 9k springs. If it ends up being oversprung then, take confidence I'll be posting about it in this thread and I'll gladly eat crow. Last edited by Poor Richard; 06-05-2019 at 07:21 AM. Reason: 5425 not 6500 |
06-04-2019, 08:48 PM | #36 | |
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06-04-2019, 10:23 PM | #37 |
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I agree with Woodsy in that it would be most valuable to get an accurate weight on the boat itself before proceeding with re-springing.
It sounds as though you've done quite a bit of research, but to be able to truly feel a noticeable difference between a ~6000 lb boat and a ~7500 lb boat behind your truck would lead me to believe there may be some other contributing factors; problems with the truck, perhaps, or from the sounds of the condition of the trailer, possibly an issue with the hubs and or trailer brakes. |
06-05-2019, 05:18 AM | #38 |
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Make sure your axles are rated for 9,000 lbs or they will be the next thing to fail
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01-07-2020, 10:21 PM | #39 |
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Winter update because never say die!
So it took a while but the trailer was eventually sorted out. What it took to get there is nothing short of amazing. Upon removing suspension bits and the axles, I quickly discovered that installing new bushings was going to be a chore since ShoreLand'r used (what appeared to be) bronze bushings way back when. Instead of dealing with pressing then having to make up for the OD of the bushing, I sourced a drill bit set with the specific size I needed in order to open up the existing bushings...11/16" (Pics 1 and 2) The really unfortunate thing will all this is discovering that one of the greaseable bolts welded itself to the bushing but also broke off the shackle it was attached to (Pic 3). This essentially meant that it was a miracle the suspension didn't unwind itself at some point on the road. I broke out my oxy/ ace torches and proceeded to get exactly nowhere for 2 days. Up to this point I had 100% success rate of hardware removal with the torches and this bolt marks the first time I could not get hardware to budge. In another stroke of luck, the way in which the bolt broke off the original shackle, I noticed there was already a known center point due to the fact the bolt is drilled down the center for the purpose of greasing. So I started drilling and oiling. Rinse and repeat while I put my new Ryobi drill to the test. In Pic 4 you can see the result. After drilling perfectly down the center of the bolt, I broke out the torches once again and brought my friend the pipe wrench into the mix. Success at last! And I was ready to install all my new hardware and springs.......sort of. The off-the-shelf springs that I purchased on recommendation ended up being too long for the existing spring perches. The folks at Donovan did their best to get me a shackle setup that would compensate for this however, the shackles did not work as intended and they ended up sitting flat against the trailer frame once everything was on the ground. Donovan asked for me to bring the springs in so they could shorten them. Of course, that meant I was dropping both axles once again. Once all that was addressed, everything went back together as expected and a road trip was finally in order! I am happy to report the trailer was stone silent during the trip and the action in the suspension appeared to be perfectly fine. Next order of business will be sorting out and cleaning up the engine followed by servicing the transom assy and outdrive. I'm really starting to get excited now! |
01-09-2020, 02:14 PM | #40 |
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We are so fortunate to have Donovan Spring nearby, that's a class operation and their prices are incredible.
Best of luck with your project, cannot wait to find out how it comes out. I hope that 454MAG EFI (MPI) blows you away. |
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Dave R For This Useful Post: | ||
ishoot308 (01-16-2020), Poor Richard (01-10-2020) |
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