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08-19-2009, 03:11 PM | #1 |
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Sound Levels in relation to Speed Limits
In another thread we got off on a tangent that I thought would be good to have as its very own discussion.
I have found that many "supporters" of the speed limits are only in favor of them because it will limit the noise they can make. How many of you feel that this is true? Also how many people would be in support of allowing for switchable exhaust? The hard part with lowering the Decible level overall is that there are pretty regular standards nation wide in which manufactors have developed mufflers to suit these standards. So it may be easy to say "lets lower them another 5 dcb" but harder to do because there may not be products that can be purchased for all types of boats and engines. Looking forward to seeing what people have to say.
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08-20-2009, 06:41 AM | #2 |
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I suspect most speed limit supporters would not change their minds at all if boats were silent.
I'd like to legalize switchable exhaust, ONLY if it passes the noise standards in both modes. I want it either quiet, or pleasantly throaty/rumbly. I strongly dislike obnoxiously loud exhaust (on anything: motorcycle, boat, car, generator, etc.). |
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08-20-2009, 06:51 AM | #3 |
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GFBL boats are loud fast, and loud slow - so let them go fast so they are gone faster. Reason #8 for faster (or no) speed limits. There could be tighter noise limits. In the narrow channels, its kind of rude when they go by. Everyone outside has to stop talking till they are past.
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08-20-2009, 07:43 AM | #4 |
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I'm against the speed limit. But I will never understand why someone wants to come to a place as beautiful as Winnipesaukee and make a lot of noise. Even as big as the broads are, one loud boat disturbs the tranquility of 1,000s of people and for what? I think the noise law should be more strict and switchable exhausts still outlawed. There is just no reason for a loud boat.
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08-20-2009, 09:08 AM | #5 | |
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1. you would need to get all the factorys or manufactorers to agree to post this, which changes per order and engine. 2. you need to define factory. For example Four Winns, Baja etc are mass produced and can be made to order. My type of boat is only made to order, meaning there are no factory specs on the engine it is whatever the customer wants done. As far as the come down and get tested, I don't know the exact wording but there was something about if you are stopped again with loud exhaust after then there is some other fine. Frankly there is no real way to enforce. Many engines at idle are below the limits and you won't know until they are at power if they are above the max decible range. I personally think that most people will abide by the laws. No matter what law you put into place people will knowingly or unknowingly break them. So you might as well allow for those of us who are willing to "quiet" our boats more so with Switchable Exhaust.
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08-20-2009, 09:25 AM | #6 | |
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Older boats before standards
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My dad has an early 1940 Higgins race boat. It has an old aircraft engine. Now this is so loud, that we have to wear ear muffs. No way can you put mufflers on this baby! You would have to custom make 8 tiny mufflers for each exhaust! What is funny, I think because of its novelty. No one question the noise. Not even the MP. That being the case. When was the standards set? What about boats maufactured before standards? Do the 'classics' have to adhere to the noise test? Judges will take off points when you add someting to your classic if it didn't exists in its day.
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08-20-2009, 09:34 AM | #7 |
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Borrowed mufflers?
To JRC.
Obvoiusly you know nothing about muffler installation. You cannot 'borrow' mufflers. It is expensive to install and remove. You have to remove the rubber sleeve between the exhaust pipe and engine and place the muffler in the rubber hose. It gets more complocated if you have water divertors in there. They will have to be remove. The cheap mufflers that bolts on to the transom pipes are not quiet enough to pass the test. The Formula 'silent choice' is probably the best in the industry. It is part of the swim platform. Don't know the mechanics behind it but it is not manually switchable so it pass the state test.
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08-20-2009, 09:47 AM | #8 | |
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If I brought this to a marina and asked for them to be put on... well over $1K I am sure. But the old line you get what you pay for comes to mind. However just switching them (even though they are clamp ons) is a project and a half.. I had to hammer mine on with a 2x4 and mini sledge hammer.. I don't know if I will ever get them off...
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08-20-2009, 09:53 AM | #9 | |
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08-20-2009, 09:55 AM | #10 | |
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Quote:
"ooops I got stopped, I will throw these on then take them right off"
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08-20-2009, 10:00 AM | #11 |
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What is the DB limit presently? How long has it been in effect? I wonder if most of the offensive boats out there don't even pass today's standards??
OCD, how do you know yours is within the limit? |
08-20-2009, 10:04 AM | #12 | |
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I can only go by a comparrison. One of my friends checkmate is the one that got stopped and had to go have the dock test and fly by test. He passed. He is a lot louder then I am. I can't give you my max # but I have hung out with MP's and they never questioned it once.
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08-20-2009, 10:21 AM | #13 |
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The DB law.
TITLE XXII
NAVIGATION; HARBORS; COAST SURVEY CHAPTER 270 SUPERVISION OF NAVIGATION; REGISTRATION OF BOATS AND MOTORS; COMMON CARRIERS BY WATER Motorboat Noise Levels Section 270:37 270:37 Decibel Limits on Noise. – I. No person may operate any boat powered by a marine engine manufactured before January 1, 1977, in or upon the waters of this state which is capable of being operated in a manner which exceeds a noise level of 86 decibels on the "A' scale measured at a distance of 50 feet from the boat. II. No person may operate, sell, or offer for sale any marine engine for use in or upon the waters of this state which is capable of being operated in a manner which exceeds the following noise levels measured at a distance of 50 feet from the boat with which the engine is tested under RSA 270:39: (a) For a marine engine manufactured in or before 1977, a noise level of 86 decibels on the "A' scale. (b) For a marine engine manufactured between January 1, 1978, and December 31, 1981, a noise level of 84 decibels on the "A' scale. (c) For a marine engine manufactured after December 31, 1981, a noise level of 82 decibels on the "A' scale. III. Noise levels in decibels shall be measured according to procedures established pursuant to rules adopted under RSA 270:39. IV. The director or his agent may order the operator or owner of any boat which he reasonably believes is capable of being operated in a manner which exceeds the decibel limits contained in this section to subject his boat to noise level testing procedures as provided in this subdivision. V. A boat owner or operator shall submit a boat which is the subject of an order by the director or his agent pursuant to RSA 270:37, IV to noise level testing by the director or his agent within 7 days of such an order. No person shall operate the boat after this 7-day period has expired until it is subjected to such noise level testing. VI. The director or his agent may prohibit the operator or owner of any boat which fails a noise level testing procedure from operating the boat until the boat successfully passes the procedure. No person shall operate a boat contrary to such an order of the director. VII. Pursuant to the penalties imposed under RSA 270:41-a, any person convicted of violating this section shall be fined not less than $100. No portion of any fine imposed under this section shall be suspended or reduced by the court.
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08-20-2009, 10:35 AM | #14 |
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Unless I am mistaken, "switchable" exhausts like Silent Choice..etc can only be used BELOW a certain engine RPM. They cannot be used "At Speed" without engine/exhaust system damage. So essentially they are only effective (usable) when putting around the docks. Get up on plane and you better open them up or pay the mechanical consequences.
But then again, I may be Out of Touch with the latest technology.. NB Last edited by NoBozo; 08-20-2009 at 11:48 AM. Reason: Spelling |
08-20-2009, 01:22 PM | #15 | |
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Quote:
You are correct. Below 1800 or 2000 RPMS. This will not solve the problems 100%, but it could definately quiet down the docks and channels if it were allowed. I believe people should be able to have it as long as when it is not activated you still would pass the current sound standards. I peronsonally would use mine all the time starting the boat... I have a 2 year old and my wife gets pretty ticked at me when I start her up during my son's nap time.
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08-20-2009, 02:07 PM | #16 |
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LOUD = Good
I love loud boat, bikes, trucks, snowmobiles, etc. My jet ski has an aftermarket exhaust system in it. It's all personal preference. My bike can also be heard from miles away as well as my snowmobile (well, up until last year). Point is, the sound of a loud exhaust will never be diminished. It has, and always will be, a personal preference. In general, the younger crowd loves to be loud. Those that hate it are usually older because I'm sure they've already enjoyed being loud in their days. I like to be loud because I love the sound, plus it brings attention to what I'm riding (which I take pride in). With that said, I don't think this problem will ever be resolved because even with a law, there is no proper way to get an accurate reading without pulling the boat out of the water. There are too many factors to offset the reading. Just my $.02 .
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08-20-2009, 02:18 PM | #17 | |
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08-20-2009, 03:35 PM | #18 |
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08-20-2009, 05:47 PM | #19 | |
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I agree with IDT, quoted below: "But I will never understand why someone wants to come to a place as beautiful as Winnipesaukee and make a lot of noise. Even as big as the broads are, one loud boat disturbs the tranquility of 1,000s of people and for what? I think the noise law should be more strict and switchable exhausts still outlawed. There is just no reason for a loud boat. " |
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08-20-2009, 05:54 PM | #20 |
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Not taking sides.. Just wondering though sunset if his point is valid.... Roughly what age braket are you in? He does make a fair point as far as age is considered.
I can draw a similar analogy to my younger years where I absolutely loved snowmobiling very fast, and jet skiing very fast - no matter how much it beat the hell out of me.. Over the years while I still find it fun I don't enjoy going very fast and for all day trips.. My body will kill and I can't see the point of beating myself up all the time.. Not the exact same thing here because my jet skiing did not hurt anyone else or bother anyone else but me... But you see my comparrison?
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08-20-2009, 06:37 PM | #21 |
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This may go right over the heads of you "Youngsters" on here. There used to be a popular Bumper Sticker that said...."Loud Pipes Save Lives". Not sayin that has any relevance here, but just a thought. .....But that bumper sticker referred to motorcycles. YUP. NB
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08-20-2009, 08:32 PM | #22 |
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08-21-2009, 07:07 AM | #23 | |
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I don't go out with a state of mind to annoy people. I don't go through the center of town in first gear so my rpm's are at 7500 on my bike. I barely ever get on it after dark out of respect of home owners and people as well as safety. Same goes with everything else I own. There are times and places where some things are acceptable. It takes experience to start to understand that (when I was younger I didn't think twice about being annoying with my sled). Eventually, I'll be older and b*itching and moaning over some young buck who has a loud boat or loud bike (probably not, but maybe). My point is, this has come to be an unenforceable law. LEO's do not have the proper training, nor equipment, to enforce a sound regulation. Attempting to take a reading in the field is next to impossible to enforce as there are so many factors to consider. I know this first hand as I received a ticket on my snowmobile for an aftermarket exhaust. I knew exactly what the law stated and knew it was basically unenforceable so I pleaded not guilty and won. Needless to say, I don't ride with an aftermarket exhaust anymore on my snowmobile because I don't want to go through the hassle, plus trails are always in danger of being closed because they are on private land. So who won in this instance? I didn't have to pay a fine, but it kind of forced me no to ride with a loud exhaust anymore? On the other hand, the lake nor the roads will never be shut down. As said in the first place, it all comes down to personal preference and to each their own. Loud exhausts do not bother me so long as they sound nice. Simply my $.02 |
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08-21-2009, 08:53 AM | #24 | |
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Sounds like the state won. If you had to appear in court to fight an "unenforceable" ticket every time you operated a loud vehicle, even if not convicted, you've already proven that the hassle of a court appearance will make you take the loud pipes off. When cops stop you for loud pipes, it's not like most speeding tickets that are just revenue enhancement, you are being stopped becuase they want you to lose the loud pipes, the fine is irrelevant to them. |
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08-21-2009, 09:22 AM | #25 | |
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How exactly do you creep in to a paved gas station with a snowmobile? I assume you also have a clutch kit for a higher RPM engagement? 4000 RPM IN TOWN on a sled with a modified exhaust is LOUD. There is no debate on that. People just hate it and then limit access to private trails. I could care less about a harley that is 200DB. Public roads are not at risk. If opinion on the noise issue was split 50/50 then we could have a debate. Trouble is it's probably 90/10 so Loud anyting just hurts the cause. |
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08-21-2009, 11:33 AM | #26 | |
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08-20-2009, 11:25 AM | #27 | |
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This is already a NH law (not enforced very often) 270:38 Certification of Marine Engines. – Any marine engine manufactured after December 31, 1976 and offered for sale in this state shall be certified to the director as having been tested and found not to exceed the noise levels prescribed in RSA 270:37, I. An outboard motor shall be certified by the motor manufacturer. Any other marine engine shall be certified by the boat manufacturer if it is offered for sale in combination with a boat or by the engine manufacturer if it is not offered for sale in combination with a boat |
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08-20-2009, 01:20 PM | #28 | |
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This is just to make sure dealers on the lake are not selling boats they know are too loud then having the person have to come back to bring them to standards. just my thoughts.
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08-20-2009, 09:10 AM | #29 | |
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That being said I realize I am in the minority, so I have no problem putting on my mufflers and am also willing to go the step further and pay to have switchable exhaust put in. This would be great so when I am offshore I can pull the mufflers and have straight hull exhaust and not bother anyone.
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08-20-2009, 11:38 AM | #30 | |
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But as I said in the other thread, it sounds loud to you in front of the engines, with the exhaust 15 feet away, behind people, seats, engines and fiberglass, plus pointing away from you. Imagine how loud it sounds when I'm behind you with open exhaust pointing directly in my face and nothing but air and water between us. BTW I'm not advocating lowering the limits, just enforcing the current laws. |
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08-20-2009, 12:18 PM | #31 |
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I love the sound too, but I suppose if every boat on the lake was above the 82db it would not be very pleasant. We had a 1992 boat we got in 1991. We drove it for years and never got stopped until '03 and were invited to go out to Timber Island. We weren't sure how loud it was, so had some work done to it before we went out but we flunked. After trying this and trying that, and about four Sunday morning trips out to Timber, we finally passsed. It was about $8000. later. I think we had to practically have the engine pulled out to finally fix it.
We still have the boat, but don't use it a lot. I love it, it is still my favorite boat and still love the sound although it is not as loud, of course. We also carry the paper in it, but have never been stopped again. |
08-21-2009, 09:19 AM | #32 |
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I agree that Ridiculously Loud Boats do disturb the general public.
I enjoy the sound of my Harley, my supercharged hot rod and my Baja, but within reason. The Harley makes noise, but is not offensive, the supercharger whine on my car makes more noise than the exhaust and my Baja has a Quick and Quiet-which means when cruising at the Silly 45mph speed limit most of the exhaust is directed under water so it is nice and quiet. Does that mean if I am not making any noise skipping across the broads at 65mph I am good????????????
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