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Old 02-09-2018, 12:25 PM   #1
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Default Market turmoil

So are all the retired posters on here freaking out over the stock market volatility? I'm wondering if it will affect the lakes region spring housing market along with the higher mortgage rates?
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Old 02-09-2018, 12:39 PM   #2
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Default Remain Calm and Ride the Waves

Correction was long overdue. Investors should have been taking some of their gains out periodically and placing them into less risky places since August.
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Old 02-09-2018, 12:59 PM   #3
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We expected it and planned accordingly. The only surprise to us is that it did not happen earlier. With about 50 years of investing, we have seen many corrections. We are long term buy and hold investors except for some periodic profit taking, minor adjustments and minimum distributions from the IRAs.
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Old 02-09-2018, 01:19 PM   #4
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So are all the retired posters on here freaking out over the stock market volatility? I'm wondering if it will affect the lakes region spring housing market along with the higher mortgage rates?
Predictions are difficult, especially about the future. But there's almost no question that a high stock market will increase the value of second homes, and that volatility and high interest rates will reduce those values.

So in general, waterfront property is less valuable than it was a couple of weeks ago, but still probably more valuable than a year or two ago. Of course, the market on Winni doesn't really start for a couple more months. This is plenty of time for interest rates and volatility to take us to prices that would be below 2015-16 levels.
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Old 02-09-2018, 01:49 PM   #5
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Recessions.

There has been a recession on average every 7 years since the founding of this country.

President Clinton handed to President George Bush a balanced US budget.

Then President Bush pushes a tax cut. Voila! No more balanced budgets ever since.

Today, we have another tax cut. Bingo!

The national debt is approaching $20 trillion dollars. Who pays just the interest on the national debt? Never mind the principal.

Ya. We are on the road to fiscal stability and responsibility.

It ain't rocket science.
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Old 02-09-2018, 02:25 PM   #6
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Trump took credit for the run up but he's been quite on the down turn. It's only a matter of time before he blames it on the Dems.
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Old 02-09-2018, 02:27 PM   #7
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The problem with all the geniuses that talk about a "market correction" is if you scaled back and listened to them 2 years ago you would would have lost a fortune anyway. it's a lot harder call when approaching retirement. Every cent the middle class gets in this tax cut will be returned either to the financiers in the form off higher interest or to your local GOV due to the feds sending far less out to the states. Where's Ron Paul when you need him. The right has lost it's mind.
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Old 02-09-2018, 03:55 PM   #8
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A 3% yield is easy enough to achieve and is sustainable. A year ago, if you had that 3% yield, you had $15,000 in disposable income and $500K to add to your estate. A year later it was easily worth $600K, if it is now worth $540K and you're still getting sustainable income, what's the problem? If it drops to $500K and you're still getting sustainable income...what's the problem?
The problem with the markets is that people look at the numbers on a daily basis, and listen to TV investment shows which thrive on excitement.
Planning now for retirement later? Buy fiberglass. There's a fiberglass show in Boston soon and with the (temporary) "downturn" you might just find a deal. Can't imagine retiring without a solid position in fiberglass.
Check out Morningstar's "Dividend Investor" newsletter/portfolio and relax.
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Old 02-09-2018, 07:02 PM   #9
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The problem with the markets is that people look at the numbers on a daily basis, and listen to TV investment shows which thrive on excitement.
I know someone who bragged about the market on just about a daily basis.
Now he's silent.
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Old 02-09-2018, 07:11 PM   #10
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Recessions.

There has been a recession on average every 7 years since the founding of this country.

President Clinton handed to President George Bush a balanced US budget.

Then President Bush pushes a tax cut. Voila! No more balanced budgets ever since.

Today, we have another tax cut. Bingo!

The national debt is approaching $20 trillion dollars. Who pays just the interest on the national debt? Never mind the principal.

Ya. We are on the road to fiscal stability and responsibility.

It ain't rocket science.
10 trillion of that debt alone comes from the president you left out....Obama. More debt than all administrations in American history combined. It's a mess in D.C. & I don't see that clearing up anytime soon. Tax cuts bring in more money to the government....problem is the government never cuts the spending.

They don't call it the "uni-party" down there for nothing.

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Old 02-09-2018, 08:41 PM   #11
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10 trillion of that debt alone comes from the president you left out....Obama. More debt than all administrations in American history combined. It's a mess in D.C. & I don't see that clearing up anytime soon. Tax cuts bring in more money to the government....problem is the government never cuts the spending.

They don't call it the "uni-party" down there for nothing.
Ummm...no, that $10 trillion isn't accurate. Or, more precisely, it takes into account issues Obama had no control over. For example, Bush's tax cuts and the recession led to less income, which people disingenuously add to Obama's "deficit." Add increasing costs--social security, war on terror (started by Bush), etc.--and the number gets even lower.

It's awesome how much numbers can be manipulative. Such as how Trump slammed Obama's use of 5% unemployment a year ago--claiming it was probably more in the 20's--but then a year later uses the same metrics he slammed.

Of course, people clearly suck up the data--vive la confirmation bias!--so they keep spinning and spinning and...

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Old 02-09-2018, 09:20 PM   #12
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Ummm...no, that $10 trillion isn't accurate. Or, more precisely, it takes into account issues Obama had no control over. For example, Bush's tax cuts and the recession led to less income, which people disingenuously add to Obama's "deficit." Add increasing costs--social security, war on terror (started by Bush), etc.--and the number gets even lower.

It's awesome how much numbers can be manipulative. Such as how Trump slammed Obama's use of 5% unemployment a year ago--claiming it was probably more in the 20's--but then a year later uses the same metrics he slammed.

Of course, people clearly suck up the data--vive la confirmation bias!--so they keep spinning and spinning and...

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Thanks for the laugh....good spin. The irony is rich with this.
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Old 02-09-2018, 09:28 PM   #13
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Thanks for the laugh....good spin. The irony is rich with this.
Good spin? I notice you didn't address the argument. Are you saying that Obama should take the credit for the reduction in tax revenue from the recession or costs from the wars he didn't start? Nice job.

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Old 02-09-2018, 09:40 PM   #14
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Good spin? I notice you didn't address the argument. Are you saying that Obama should take the credit for the reduction in tax revenue from the recession or costs from the wars he didn't start? Nice job.

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I'll make it even simpler for you than I did in my prior post. Obama, Bush & it looks like Trump, the GOP & the democrats in D.C. are all to blame for the fiscal mess we are in. Trying to exempt Obama from this sorry record is pitiful ideological posturing. He's right in there with the rest of this crew. As for the Afghan war.....he ran for election on stopping that war. As you know; it's still going on. That said: after 8 years of the war on his watch he plainly owns it, as he owns all the spending he overseen.

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Old 02-09-2018, 09:56 PM   #15
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Where is Major?


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Old 02-10-2018, 06:19 AM   #16
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I'll make it even simpler for you than I did in my prior post. Obama, Bush & it looks like Trump, the GOP & the democrats in D.C. are all to blame for the fiscal mess we are in. Trying to exempt Obama from this sorry record is pitiful ideological posturing. He's right in there with the rest of this crew. As for the Afghan war.....he ran for election on stopping that war. As you know; it's still going on. That said: after 8 years of the war on his watch he plainly owns it, as he owns all the spending he overseen.
Not trying to exempt Obama, just clarifying the facts.

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Old 02-10-2018, 07:02 AM   #17
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Where is Major?


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Iím here. If you look at the history of our national debt since Roosevelt, Democrats and Republicans can share the blame equality. The junior Bush was just as interested in growing government as Obama was. Until people understand that we donít have a revenue problem but a spending problem nothing will get fixed. I did find it amusing that some posters donít appreciate tax cuts. Itís our money! And any time we can keep it away from a wasteful, all consuming government isnít that a good thing?


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Old 02-10-2018, 07:40 AM   #18
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Political chats usually turn ugly
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Old 02-10-2018, 07:49 AM   #19
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I don't think anybody can drain the swamp called Washington. it's too big. It has taken on a life of it's own.
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Old 02-10-2018, 08:15 AM   #20
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With 32 separate Walmart stores plus a huge trucking distribution location in south east New Hampshire, the great State of New Hampshire most assuredly has more Walmart stores for its' 1.3 million resident population than any other state in the country.

New Hampshire is Walmart country, and by owning stock in WMT ..... Walmart, ...... you become not just a customer ..... but an owner, too.

So's, as a stock owning Walmart customer ..... it gives you the great feeling you get to walk around the big store ..... and straighten things up .....you know... refold an unfolded bath towel .....line up the containers of original vanilla yogurt .... set all the 50-cent mini pies neat and straight ..... clean the tires on display ..... adjust the tv volume so all tv's are in harmony......

If store security stops you .....asking what's up with you! ...... just show em your WMT stock certificate .... and you will be waved on through ..... you be not just a customer ..... but, an owner too!

With a price/earnings ratio of 26.38% ...... wow, sounds like very very high? , and an annual dividend of 2% , it's never a bad time to be buying WMT!

Question of the day ....... as America's biggest retail store ..... what's the one single most sold and most popular item in a New Hampshire Walmart? At Hannaford's it is probably bananas ...... but not so sure bananas is #1 at Walmart?

Answer: I have positively no clue?

As Alfred E Newman from Mad Magazine says: What me worry ...... and who cares?

As someone living in central New Hampshire, you have many choices to get a fantastic, high paying job, pay federal (but not state) taxes, and do your part to help make America great again ....... understand ...... like working at Walmart!
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Old 02-10-2018, 08:24 AM   #21
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It's no secret that the reason that so many unpredictable voters held their nose, and voted for Trump. DC truly is a swamp. Hard working men and women across this country see this confirmed every day.It's difficult to tell the difference from a Republican or a Democrat once their party gets the checkbook. I voted for Trump out of desperation, and I have not regretted doing so . Perhaps a new perspective, by a man that couldn't care less about what people may say, is a new approach to fix our monumental swamp in DC?
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Old 02-10-2018, 08:29 AM   #22
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It's no secret that the reason that so many unpredictable voters held their nose, and voted for Trump. DC truly is a swamp. Hard working men and women across this country see this confirmed every day.It's difficult to tell the difference from a Republican or a Democrat once their party gets the checkbook. I voted for Trump out of desperation, and I have not regretted doing so . Perhaps a new perspective, by a man that couldn't care less about what people may say, is a new approach to fix our monumental swamp in DC?
Trump is just the opposite. He cares so much about what people say that he watches the news every morning and then Tweets about whether he thinks it's true or not. He really is a very insecure man. He craves so much for acceptance that it controls his daily life.
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Old 02-10-2018, 08:43 AM   #23
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.....talking about draining the swamp ...... how's about wearing some shoulder high, vinyl chest waders with suspenders attached.....for sale at the Tilton Walmart.....but not at the Plymouth or Gilford Walmarts ...... for the unbelievable low price of about 14-dollars ...... for a usable, dry, working pair of fisherman's chest waders....... great for doing what it takes to DRAIN THAT SWAMP and stay dry at the same time ..... just wade out to the deep end of that swamp ..... kick out the drain plug ...... and stay dry and warm in freezing cold water with a pair of 14-dollar chest waders from Tilton Walmart, or www.walmart.com ....... go drain the swamp!

With these waders ...... they re-make someone receiving social security disabilty income for depression or something ...... into a swamp drainer! ..... also useful for installing/removing the dock .... in that there swamp ...... drain the swamp ...... lock him up .... for laundering that big basket of Russian money .. within the great State of New York .. New York .. New York .. as Frank Sinatra, 1915-1998, told him in 1990 ... when Frank was about age-74 https://www.salon.com/2017/10/09/fra...go-f-yourself/ ....here's hope'n New York has a tiny prison cell a-wait'n ..... a daily NY Times newspaper ...... no television ..... and his very own prison uniform in the color ...... orange!

...move him out ... from the White House to the big house ..... or, maybe escape to Moscow ... as a Russian ... he would be a good fit!
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Old 02-10-2018, 09:05 AM   #24
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Trump is just the opposite. He cares so much about what people say that he watches the news every morning and then Tweets about whether he thinks it's true or not. He really is a very insecure man. He craves so much for acceptance that it controls his daily life.


Some people are so blinded by their hate for Trump, they will never let the facts get in the way of bad mouth reactions to his name. Talk about a wall ...


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Old 02-10-2018, 12:34 PM   #25
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Now both the Dems and Reps have a spending issue. At least prior to this term you could count of the GOP to be the budget hawks and at least try to keep spending in check. Now we have a group patting themselves on the back for giving themselves a huge tax cut while giving moderate cuts to the working class, causing a revenue decrease of a trillion dollars, while also passing one of the largest spending budgets. Remember a negative minus a negative equals a negative.
Also how fast we forget...our economy was on the brink of collapse and the banking system collapsing, housing market crashing. Bush started the recovery / emergency bailout plan to stabilize the markets and banking systems, while Obama and his team continued with the bush plan to bring this country out of the tailspin. While Obama did not create the problem how many times did you hear him blame Bush for the troubles he inherited? At least Bush and Obama had good advisers who understood economics and they listened to their advice and did not meddle.
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Old 02-10-2018, 01:05 PM   #26
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The swamp can not be drained until money is out of politics, which neither party will ever do, so we drown in the swamp as long as these pathetic anti American party's stay in power. And tax cuts and cutting regulations can be the best medicine for this country if the man doing them is smart enough to do them right.
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Old 02-10-2018, 01:46 PM   #27
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Some people are so blinded by their hate for Trump, they will never let the facts get in the way of bad mouth reactions to his name. Talk about a wall ...
What facts are you referring to?

The facts that bug me the most about him are:

He's a sexual predator.
He endorsed an accused child molester for Senate.

I cannot fathom how any decent person could ever reconcile those two indications of despicable character with anything positive he's done. How do you do it?
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Old 02-10-2018, 02:53 PM   #28
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Every time the taxes have been cut in the recent decades ( Reagan and Bush), taxes revenues, the amount of taxes actually collected, have increased markedly, a simple fact.
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Old 02-10-2018, 02:55 PM   #29
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This market pattern has been repeated for YEARS.

Every time the economy starts to do really well, the market gets spooked by the possibility of rising interest rates. I have seen this over and over again. The market will most definitely regain what was "lost" - and more.

A good economy raises corporate earnings as well as individual's pay.

It's a win-win-win.
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Old 02-10-2018, 03:11 PM   #30
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This market pattern has been repeated for YEARS.

Every time the economy starts to do really well, the market gets spooked by the possibility of rising interest rates. I have seen this over and over again. The market will most definitely regain what was "lost" - and more.

A good economy raises corporate earnings as well as individual's pay.

It's a win-win-win.
The only thing that really spooks me about this economy is the $20 trillion and growing national debt, that really frightens me.
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Old 02-10-2018, 03:45 PM   #31
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The only thing that really spooks me about this economy is the $20 trillion and growing national debt, that really frightens me.
Me too, This cut is being followed up by massive spending, It still might work if we have a massive surge in business like the computer revolution gave, And I think we may be on the verge of A bio tech revolution. There are somethings even these jack asses can't stop.
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Old 02-10-2018, 04:54 PM   #32
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Every time the taxes have been cut in the recent decades ( Reagan and Bush), taxes revenues, the amount of taxes actually collected, have increased markedly, a simple fact.
As is often the case with "simple fact", this is misleading at best. Very few if any believe the Bush and Reagan cuts paid for themselves.

But we can all agree on the short term impact (even before this week's spending bill!):

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/31/u...ebt-limit.html
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Old 02-10-2018, 05:03 PM   #33
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Just a Rumor at Logan Airport but I heard Canada is considering building a WALL between them and US.
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Old 02-10-2018, 05:11 PM   #34
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Just a Rumor at Logan Airport but I heard Canada is considering building a WALL between them and US.
I heard Guatemala is paying for it.
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Old 02-10-2018, 05:22 PM   #35
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Letís hope all the liberals are visiting Canada the day it goes up. Say what you will about Trump...but heís exponentially better in every way than that hag, criminal Clinton. Itís about time she and the rest of her ilk get sent to jail. Good riddance.
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Old 02-10-2018, 06:46 PM   #36
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Letís hope all the liberals are visiting Canada the day it goes up. Say what you will about Trump...but heís exponentially better in every way than that hag, criminal Clinton. Itís about time she and the rest of her ilk get sent to jail. Good riddance.
If they both go to prison it'll be one of the greatest days in American history.
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Old 02-10-2018, 07:07 PM   #37
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Opened the door, peeked in, looked around, and slammed it shut!

Might add a comment once this thread gets thrown down into the lower forum level.
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Old 02-10-2018, 07:08 PM   #38
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If they both go to prison it'll be one of the greatest days in American history.
I agree but as hard as it is to stomach them I think theyíll be around but washed up politically, thankfully. Next one to watch out for is pochahontas...thereís a prize.
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Old 02-10-2018, 07:08 PM   #39
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The market makes no sense anymore and frankly no one knows what it will do one day from the other and that includes all these financial advisors. A correction was do and we got it but overall the economy is very healthy now. I'm not worrying a bit. Good opportunitys to buy if you watch it.
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Old 02-10-2018, 07:31 PM   #40
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What facts are you referring to?



The facts that bug me the most about him are:



He's a sexual predator.

He endorsed an accused child molester for Senate.



I cannot fathom how any decent person could ever reconcile those two indications of despicable character with anything positive he's done. How do you do it?


Why donít you check your facts, and stop sipping the cool aid, my god you people are blinded by hate for Trump!!








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Old 02-10-2018, 07:49 PM   #41
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Why donít you check your facts, and stop sipping the cool aid, my god you people are blinded by hate for Trump!!








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Pretty tough to dispute what was caught on tape. But that was just locker room talk, ha,ha,ha.

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Old 02-10-2018, 08:32 PM   #42
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Pretty tough to dispute what was caught on tape. But that was just locker room talk, ha,ha,ha.

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Hahaha if thatís all you can muster you have a nothing burger (to quote the hag)...Trump is trying to make this messed up nation great again despite ďresistanceĒ from the democrat loserís party, Hollywood elite, (you were saying something about sexual predators?) snowflakes, liberal universities, the blm rioters movement and the lame stream media that reports nothing about whatís really going on...itís all coming to a big ugly head. Iím glad Iím on the good side.
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Old 02-10-2018, 08:57 PM   #43
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As a father of two daughters and 4 grand daughters it scares me to think that people find that behavior exceptable for anyone let alone the president of the USA. If that's part of making America great then I'm lost for words.

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Old 02-10-2018, 11:35 PM   #44
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As is often the case with "simple fact", this is misleading at best. Very few if any believe the Bush and Reagan cuts paid for themselves.

But we can all agree on the short term impact (even before this week's spending bill!):

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/31/u...ebt-limit.html
There is nothing misleading about my fact at all, it's the truth. While the politicians like to focus on tax rates and collections, the problem is always spending, every time, that's another fact.

It's way to soon to agree on any short term impacts of the Trump's cuts, most of what is being said is noise, that is other than fatter employee paychecks and substantial bonuses for millions of employees, that's the only tangible impact we can see so far. Companies coming back and companies repatriating money is said to be happening, I can't call that a fact.... yet. Let's just stick to the facts.
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Old 02-11-2018, 12:09 AM   #45
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A reasonable topic from the OP. It has been hijacked and degenerated into...I can't find the right words. This is talk you would never say to someone's face. Time to pick up your fingers and abandon the thread.
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Old 02-11-2018, 03:52 AM   #46
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Political chats usually turn ugly
Yes and not a mind will be changed!
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Old 02-11-2018, 07:00 AM   #47
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What facts are you referring to?

The facts that bug me the most about him are:

He's a sexual predator.
He endorsed an accused child molester for Senate.

I cannot fathom how any decent person could ever reconcile those two indications of despicable character with anything positive he's done. How do you do it?
Neither side is any better here... How about idiots like Weiner? Slick Willy and his love for cigars, blue dresses and interns? Or maybe all of the trips on Epstein plane- the "Lolita express" to predator island?
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Old 02-11-2018, 08:01 AM   #48
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Been in the financial services industry for 35 years. Professional money manager and retired at 45. PEOPLE, the stock market pulled back 10% from peak to trough-so far. Are you joking me? AT ANY POINT, the market could pull back 20% and it would be NORMAL. What isn't NORMAL is the relentless move up in prices we've witnessed since '11 when we had a 20% "drawdown".
I have no idea what the stock market will do this year and if anyone says they do they're either lying or worse, too stupid to know that they don't know. I DO have a better idea of where stocks will be trading in 10 years and a MUCH better idea of where they'll be trading in 20 years (significantly higher).
You're either in or out. Do NOT try and guess at the vagaries of the market. It is a fools game.
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Old 02-11-2018, 08:51 AM   #49
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So are all the retired posters on here freaking out over the stock market volatility? I'm wondering if it will affect the lakes region spring housing market along with the higher mortgage rates?
Don't turn theoretical losses into real losses:


Dow-Jones Industrial Average:

NOV 21, 2014: 17,810
NOV 27, 2015: 17,799 (-0.06% over the previous year, Obama's New Normal)
NOV 04, 2016: 17,888 (+0.52% over the previous year, Obama's New Normal)
NOV 08, 2016 - Donald Trump elected President...
NOV 24, 2017: 23,558 (+31.6% over the previous year, since Trump's election)
FEB 08, 2018: 23,860 (still higher than the massive 31.6% gain since Trump's election)

A "Correction". It will return to normal...

I told my Edward Jones broker to buy more of my portfolio.

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Old 02-11-2018, 09:32 AM   #50
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Neither side is any better here... How about idiots like Weiner? Slick Willy and his love for cigars, blue dresses and interns? Or maybe all of the trips on Epstein plane- the "Lolita express" to predator island?
I was not taking political sides, just stating facts about Donald Trump. I totally understand why people voted for him given the choices we had. Despicable behavior is not limited to any political party. FWIW, I despise HRC too...

What astounds me is the support Trump still has today. Regardless of all the political and economic policies, there is a very simple dividing line that is derived from absolute core human values:

You support a man that has bragged about being a sexual predator AND has endorsed an accused child molester.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
You condemn a man that has bragged about being a sexual predator AND has endorsed an accused child molester.


Even if I was able to overlook (I'm not...) the sexual predation because all involved were likely adults and most of the victims probably knew what they were getting into, I could never support anyone that endorsed an accused child molester; I think that sort of thing is really sick.
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Old 02-11-2018, 09:38 AM   #51
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Why donít you check your facts, and stop sipping the cool aid, my god you people are blinded by hate for Trump!!








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Which fact are you disputing?
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Old 02-11-2018, 09:43 AM   #52
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Neither side is any better here... How about idiots like Weiner? Slick Willy and his love for cigars, blue dresses and interns? Or maybe all of the trips on Epstein plane- the "Lolita express" to predator island?
Absolutely, It's systemic at this point. I've been saying for years that America has had enough. Boy was I wrong. Each side just digs deeper and lies and criticizes the other for the exact same issues, including the fraudulent public base. Sickening.
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Old 02-11-2018, 10:41 AM   #53
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A reasonable topic from the OP. It has been hijacked and degenerated into...I can't find the right words. This is talk you would never say to someone's face. Time to pick up your fingers and abandon the thread.
Not sure if you are talking to me, but everything I wrote here I would and do say to someone's face in a heartbeat. In fact, if it's someone whose opinion I care about, I'll go the federal historic data website and pull the revenue data for them, it's easy to find and indisputable as I stated it. Simple facts.
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Old 02-11-2018, 10:56 AM   #54
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Yes and not a mind will be changed!
That is not necessarily true, some people can subjectively look at this stuff and be swayed. Others not so much. Generally those who speak in absolutes on gray areas and those whose rage you can feel seething through their posts don't want to change.


For decades now the politics coverage and discussion focus on intent, perceived intent and fluff rather than results. We need to start focusing on results. Things like revenue increases after tax cuts are genuine good results that if you think superficially don't make sense. A simple explanation is that if a tax is fair and not punitive or confiscatory in nature, it's easier for payers just to pay it rather than figuring and working ways to lessen its impact.

These are good conversations to have, unfortunately there are too many crybabies amongst us.
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Old 02-11-2018, 01:14 PM   #55
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I'll say one thing about Trump, he has more ambition than I had at 71 yrs of age.
He even wants to serve 2 terms as President which would make him almost 80.

The stock market has been good to me for over 50 years and I also started a 401k from the 1st day it started which was around 1978.
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Old 02-11-2018, 10:54 PM   #56
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I enjoy reading the posts on this thread. I never minded paying taxes because I was always earning money. Always felt for those who were not earning enough to owe taxes and more so for the unfortunates not employed or working solo.

Life is great if the body doesn't weaken. Work hard, play hard.

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Old 02-12-2018, 06:53 PM   #57
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I wish there was still a "like" option on this forum. I would defiantly like this post . You are so right.


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That is not necessarily true, some people can subjectively look at this stuff and be swayed. Others not so much. Generally those who speak in absolutes on gray areas and those whose rage you can feel seething through their posts don't want to change.


For decades now the politics coverage and discussion focus on intent, perceived intent and fluff rather than results. We need to start focusing on results. Things like revenue increases after tax cuts are genuine good results that if you think superficially don't make sense. A simple explanation is that if a tax is fair and not punitive or confiscatory in nature, it's easier for payers just to pay it rather than figuring and working ways to lessen its impact.

These are good conversations to have, unfortunately there are too many crybabies amongst us.
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Old 02-13-2018, 11:59 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by ITD View Post
That is not necessarily true, some people can subjectively look at this stuff and be swayed. Others not so much. Generally those who speak in absolutes on gray areas and those whose rage you can feel seething through their posts don't want to change.


For decades now the politics coverage and discussion focus on intent, perceived intent and fluff rather than results. We need to start focusing on results. Things like revenue increases after tax cuts are genuine good results that if you think superficially don't make sense. A simple explanation is that if a tax is fair and not punitive or confiscatory in nature, it's easier for payers just to pay it rather than figuring and working ways to lessen its impact.

These are good conversations to have, unfortunately there are too many crybabies amongst us.
^^ THANKS ^^

Now a days it's all about group think, find the group who thinks the way that you do and everything else is evil, toxic and to be admonished no matter what. Sadly to pile on top of this is a plethora of so called "facts" or opinion polls that are often times skewed to further a particular perception even though the true reality likely suggests otherwise. In the end we end up with a split between multiple groups of individuals - including those that are in a position to govern, consensus of any kind is never found as any capitulation is considered weakness and unacceptable unless the consequences may carry ramifications that may blink the career dissipation light for elected officials. Thus any compromise that may occur is done out of political expediency and not necessarily in the best interest of the country as a whole.

As a conservative - or maybe better put more of a libertarian, there are things going on I think are very good others I don't like. However I tend to think in the way of what is best for the country and all Americans, not necessarily what is best for me. Maybe that is because being in the military and having been sent overseas to be part of the defense of this great nation I got a chance to see things that made me really appreciate just how unique and blessed we are as a nation, but at the same time understand the reality that this country doesn't exist just because and there are plenty of suicidal maniacs out there hell bent on destroying what we cherish, our freedom and way of life. Unless or until we as a nation figure out a way to govern ourselves in a way that puts our country first, our interests (as a country and not as individuals) first, and do what is needed to defend that we are bound to fail, and there are plenty it seems that are perfectly willing to allow that to happen, if not encourage it.

So long as political hacks such as Nancy Pelosi or Mitch McConnell are left in office we're never going to get anywhere. Both are perfect examples of why term limits are so badly needed.
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Old 02-13-2018, 01:29 PM   #59
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My values have changed over 63 years on this planet. In my younger days I voted what I thought was best for me and my families financial future because of financial pressures.
My thought process has absolutely changed over the years now that I'm financially stable. I understand people make choices based on financial stress. Money is usually the #1 motivator in any endevor. When those financial burden's are lifted you tend to think more rationally.
I'm on the back 40 now so I like to think that what I do from here on in will make a difference in future generations for all of us not just the next 5 or 10 years.
Social media today has taken our society to a scary "follow the heard" level. In this new world we are being told the news affiliates that we all came to trust are reporting "fake" news and the only real news feed is Twitter.
As the OP of this thread the only reason I asked the original question is I would like to buy a waterfront property but prices are over inflated, IMO. I have a place now with water rights that I'm perfectly happy with but if prices come down I would buy a waterfront home and just rent the one I have now for income. The thread kind of went in a different direction than I anticipated and I'm sorry for that.

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Old 02-13-2018, 02:16 PM   #60
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2 Great posts in a row. I will only add that many do not vote for there best interest, Not because of some higher calling, more often because of partisan blindness, They believe the BS and don't seek out the real facts.
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