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Old 04-15-2016, 09:27 AM   #1
longislander
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Default NH Town Special Meetings

Is anyone aware of any NH Special Town Meetings, that don't deal with statutorily required, or appropriations/budget issues?

Moultonborough has one.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?ts=5712b39a

OOOPS!

Try this link for the petition.


https://files.acrobat.com/a/preview/...3-d9620e912af7

(Still a newbie; especially on posting PDF)

Last edited by longislander; 04-16-2016 at 06:17 PM.
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Old 04-15-2016, 11:50 AM   #2
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longislander - Link just takes me to a page telling me to open a google account. (Fat chance!)
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Old 04-15-2016, 12:25 PM   #3
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Petition for Special Town Meeting

In accordance with RSA 39:3, the following individuals petition, to warrant a Special Town Meeting, to be held sometime between the second week of July, 2016 and the second week of August, 2016, of which at least 50 petitioners are required to be registered voters.

The purpose of the meeting is to vote on the following Articles, and the meeting may not include any discussion of appropriations, nor budgets. Voting on all articles shall be done by secret ballot.

Article 1
To see if the Town will vote to repair and rehabilitate the town-owned building known as the Lion’s Club. The definition of “repair and rehabilitate”, including building additions, is to be formulated by a citizen committee, consisting of at least five, but not more than 11 Moultonborough citizens, that are not elected, nor appointed members of any other Moultonborough town or school Board or committee. The actual number of committee members, is to be determined by a vote at the meeting, and to be appointed by the Town moderator at the same meeting. The governing body will submit the Lion’s Club committee proposal, to the March 2017 Annual Meeting for approval, as a warrant article. The Chairperson of this committee shall be the Town Administrator, and is to be in addition to the committee members, but not a voting member.

Article 2
To see if the Town will vote to create a Town Green Park/Common at the town property known as the Taylor Property.
yes/no
Print Name Address Signature Reg. Voter

____________ _________________ _________________ _______

____________ _________________ _________________ _______

____________ _________________ _________________ _______

____________ _________________ _________________ ____


Please mail or forward original signature form to:
Joe Cormier
59 West Point Rd.
Moultonborough, NH 03254


Can't play with this any more heading out.
If any Moultonborough residents want a copy of the petition just email:

feeddeer2@gmail.com

A word or PDF attachment will be sent and you can download, print, sign and mail via slow mail. Postage stamps are now 47 cents, instead of 49 cents.

That's a Deal
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Old 04-15-2016, 03:36 PM   #4
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Why does this smell like an around end play to build that mega recreation center, voter preference be damned? If you sign this petition and then vote yes at the actual town meeting, you will have guaranteed that the tiny minority will push this rec center on you by using this building as the shell for the mega center.

DO NOT be fooled.
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Old 04-15-2016, 04:04 PM   #5
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Quote:
Why does this smell like an around end play to build that mega recreation center, voter preference be damned?
What smells is the Lion's Club septic system failure.

I'm the guy accused of sabotaging "democratic" discourse because I followed the moderator (and recognized NHMA) rules of Call the Question. Couldn't bear any more pablum from either side. That supposedly stopped the $6.4 million project pushed on us by the Select Board and cronies???? The super majority vote against didn't have anything to do with the rejection ... sure.

Quote:
DO NOT be fooled.
Are you clairvoyant, or just another conspiracy theorist?

A big difference, if this goes through, there will be around 400 extra voters, snowbirds, who voted by absentee ballot in the Primary, that will be able to vote.

I'm not going to even mention it's the closest thing to SB-2 (I support) these taxpayers have had.

Signing the petition only allows for setting up a committee to fix a $495,000 property in Article1 and putting to use another $275,000 property sitting idle. This time not appointed by the junta.
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Old 04-15-2016, 07:32 PM   #6
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Please reconsider the idea of a special town meeting. Can we please just give the topic of recreation/community center a well-deserved rest? The voters spoke at Town Meeting, and the $6.5 million was defeated soundly. Since then, a certain member of the BoS has railed and whined about a meeting that was "hijacked", which is just not true. Those who lost the vote would like nothing better than to revive the whole topic, even if the current intention is to do a modest renovation to the Lions Club. Before long, it would evolve into a majestic building with offices, saunas, and a new spectacular gym. We keep saying NO! and those who were elected won't listen to those they are supposedly representing. Let's not give them an opportunity to put the screws to us yet again.
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Old 04-15-2016, 08:14 PM   #7
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Default NH Special Town Meeting

I don't live in Moultonborough, but if a certain group of people in Moultonborough want a spacious center, then let them band together, pool their money, form a company, build the center, and anyone else who wants to partake can - by buying a membership. Let private industry solve the problem, not taxpayers dollars.
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Old 04-15-2016, 08:32 PM   #8
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Sorry for my lack of knowledge with the Lion's Club building. Moultonborough owns the building and leases it to the Lion's Club? Is there an actual lease payment? Can there be some type of a modification to the existing lease agreement to pay for the renovations without using taxpayer dollars? I know they rent the hall out and the like so they seem to have a revenue stream to pay for it.

In terms of new park or the equivalent, I am a relative newbie, but there seems to be plenty of open space at the existing places in the Town and I am typically around only around during the busiest time of the year.
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Old 04-15-2016, 09:45 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camp guy View Post
I don't live in Moultonborough, but if a certain group of people in Moultonborough want a spacious center, then let them band together, pool their money, form a company, build the center, and anyone else who wants to partake can - by buying a membership. Let private industry solve the problem, not taxpayers dollars.
THEY DID !

Back in the late 1990's, the Moultonborough Lions Club formed a committee to seek funding for a complete community center.
The final proposal was a fully paid for community center to be constructed on the Lions Club property. Completely paid for. The full funding was right there. Full and complete funding at no direct cost to Moultonborough property taxpayers.

All the Lion's Club asked for was for the Town of Moultonborough to take over the management and upkeep of this proposed new complete facility.

The Moultonborough Board of Selectmen at the time declined this fully funded new recreation complex stating that paying for employees, upkeep of this new building, and insurance was way too much money for the taxpayers of Moultonborough to take on.

AND

Not to forget the fully paid for free Olympic sized pool that was offered to the town of Moultonborough by a private citizen. That one too was shunned by the Moultonborough board of selectmen stating that the cost of maintenance and insurance was too much to ask for from the taxpayers of the town of Moultonborough.

Deja Vu all over again !
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Old 04-16-2016, 01:11 AM   #10
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Default Apples and Oranges

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheProfessor View Post
THEY DID !

Back in the late 1990's, the Moultonborough Lions Club formed a committee to seek funding for a complete community center.
The final proposal was a fully paid for community center to be constructed on the Lions Club property. Completely paid for. The full funding was right there. Full and complete funding at no direct cost to Moultonborough property taxpayers.

All the Lion's Club asked for was for the Town of Moultonborough to take over the management and upkeep of this proposed new complete facility.

The Moultonborough Board of Selectmen at the time declined this fully funded new recreation complex stating that paying for employees, upkeep of this new building, and insurance was way too much money for the taxpayers of Moultonborough to take on.

AND

Not to forget the fully paid for free Olympic sized pool that was offered to the town of Moultonborough by a private citizen. That one too was shunned by the Moultonborough board of selectmen stating that the cost of maintenance and insurance was too much to ask for from the taxpayers of the town of Moultonborough.

Deja Vu all over again !
A MAJOR difference - the previous poster included " anyone else who wants to partake can - by buying a membership. " vs. the Lions Club proposal that the TOWN take over a facility. I am not defending or challenging the decision but there is a huge difference between the town and taxpayers taking on a long running expense vs. a business providing a paid service for those who desire it. Often the cost of running a facility can far exceed the cost of building the physical plant, especially when labor costs are involved.
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Old 04-16-2016, 07:39 AM   #11
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Default Excess

The town doesn't have the population to need or support pools and rec centers like this . They will be under used if built. If they are so hell bent on a spending tax money why don't they set up a program to fund the towns children's college expenses or something else with real value .
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Old 04-16-2016, 07:47 AM   #12
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Here is the opening statement to the Moultonborough business meeting of the Select Board:

Mr. Chairman,

In the not too distant future, I believe the Select Board will be discussing the June 8th, 2007 Lion’s Club commercial lease agreement, in concert with March 15th 2007 User Agreement which is part of the consideration paid for the property, and also the March 15th, 2007 Purchase and Sale Agreement. It is a ten year commercial lease.

The taxpayers spent $495,000 plus the user agreement, as consideration, acquiring the the17.5 acres, plus building.
The Commercial lease, the Use Agreement, and the Purchase and Sale Agreement, all part of the “acquisition” of the Lion’s Club, for tax exempt property, appears legally odd.

The property is used for Meals on Wheels, Scouting organizations, the Women’s Club, Breakfast groups, Senior groups, Candidates night, employee appreciation days, Lion’s Club meetings, and probably much more.

Some of us learned last week that the septic system has failed. Someone told me, that was 10 years ago. For a town looking to market itself, it seems a travesty that anyone can look up the site on the new town Tax/GIS maps and view code violation notices dating back to November 2012. Have they been corrected?

It would seem that the town needs to appreciate its holdings and maintain them, in order to have the holdings appreciate in value, not deteriorate.
That said, here’s a copy of a petition is that being launched to repair and rehabilitate, the Lion’s Club property. The goal is to get 50 registered town voters to sign.

The petition is for a Special Town Meeting to be held this summer.
Article 1 is being put forth to rehabilitate and repair the Lion’s Club. Some highlights of the petition are:
1) A summer Special Town Meeting to held in July or August 2016
2) Repair and rehabilitate the Lion’s Club property
3) 5-11 citizen committee, of presently non-elected nor appointed members
4) Town Moderator will appoint committee members at the meeting
5) Committee proposals to be submitted to the BoS for March 2017 warrant.
6) Committee Chair shall be the TA, while being a non-voting member

There is a second article: Article 2 is to see if the town will vote to create a Town Green Park or Common at the Taylor property.
Here’s are copies of the petition that will be circulating.

Any questions.



The possibility of another run at the Taylor property was already being discussed, by its proponents. This time it would not be a Board warrant article. It would be 25 (not 50) petition, voters that could put on the March 2017 Town meeting warrant. This time another angle would probably be used. Only petition the Community Center. That only takes a majority vote of one, not the 2/3rds majority statutorily required with a bond, as was done. Financing then, would be a separate issue.

It has not gone unnoticed that there could be attempts to hijack the summer meeting for their goal. Statutorily the focus must be on the warrant articles "noticed". They can be amended, but not changed. The same would be true at a March meeting. A big difference from a summer meeting and the annual March meeting is the snowbirds. The summer meeting allows them to vote on articles they cannot legally vote on.

I've read quite a bit of the previous attempts of the Taj Mahal at the so-called Lion's club. There is already movement to call the Lion's Club what it is already: Moultonborough Community Center and unfortunately, deteriorating.

There is a lease ending in June 2017 that the Select Board already has an work session agenda item. Here it is:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...W8p6g7Zi9mfvFw


One strategy is to sit and hope ... another is to strike while the iron is hot!
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Old 04-16-2016, 08:20 AM   #13
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Moultonboro may soon be the first town in NH and maybe all of New England, *to offer town wide broadband with the use of stationary balloons. The provider, HiHi WiFi will float the balloons at no cost to the Town, and will charge users a competitive monthly fee. The only catch is that they will need to place more than a thousand balloons around town at a height of no more than 100 feet. The BoS felt that this was a reasonable trade off for the ability to market town wide broadband.
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Old 04-16-2016, 09:12 AM   #14
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Thanks Rusty, for the input! Glad you're partaking in a forum that has rules, and allows for disagreement without personal censoring, like the MoBo blog.

For the rest of the audience, here's the real story on alternative high speed access; not balloons, but fixed wireless in Gigabit speeds that have already been implemented in Vermont rural areas, and in some rural NH towns. The NH DOT and NH FASTROADS, also make use of the technology.

I did suggest to the Broadband committee, while a member, a presentation to the BoS. They prefer to waste the $200,000 in the Tech Fund for on 1-2 Mbps of DSL for the moose on Red Hill, and maybe some personal lines for Board members.

http://www.wivalley.com/services/residential

Hopefully, the webmaster will move "broadband" to a different thread if there's an attempt to "hijack" the topic of getting the MoBo Lion's Club rehabilitated.

I'd enjoy participating in the forum, as well.
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Old 04-16-2016, 06:22 PM   #15
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One more try.
Open, print, fill-out. and slow-mail!

https://files.acrobat.com/a/preview/...3-d9620e912af7
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Old 04-16-2016, 07:06 PM   #16
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Thanks for posting a link to the lease.

So, correct me if I misspeak, the Town of Moultonborough buys the land and building for $495,000 from the Lions Club, leases it back to them for $0 in rental payments, charges no property taxes, and has the obligation to maintain exterior of the building and the grounds including plowing and mowing the lawn. Lessee (i.e. the Lions Club) is responsible for the repair and maintenance of all plumbing, heating, air conditioning, etc. as part of the lease but the petition is to have the taxpayers of Moultonborough foot the bill for it.

Doesn't seem real equitable to me but, then again, I only get to pay taxes not vote.
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Old 04-17-2016, 06:20 AM   #17
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Quote:
So, correct me if I misspeak, the Town of Moultonborough buys the land and building for $495,000 from the Lions Club, leases it back to them for $0 in rental payments, charges no property taxes, and has the obligation to maintain exterior of the building and the grounds including plowing and mowing the lawn. Lessee (i.e. the Lions Club) is responsible for the repair and maintenance of all plumbing, heating, air conditioning, etc. as part of the lease but the petition is to have the taxpayers of Moultonborough foot the bill for it.
No correction needed ... you got it! The lease is up for renewal in June 2017, and has fallen in disrepair. It's town property and needs to be maintained. Nobody else is going to get it fixed. But if the taxpayers are more aware, they can demand better return on their dollar, or at least, determine if "sale/lease back", MoBo version, is the right way to go.

Those not in the area, and others that cannot make it to the Annual March Meeting, cannot vote on important issues that affect all of the taxpayers. A summer meeting would allow those votes. Voter registration is, of course, required to be a voter. Even absentee voters are not allowed to vote on most important issues. NH law dictates what can be on the "Australian ballot" that absentee voters use. It's the same ballot used by those in town in March at the Tuesday voting, not the Saturday voting. It should be noted that the Tuesday and the Saturday are "Town Meeting Day".

Last edited by longislander; 04-17-2016 at 06:55 AM.
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Old 04-17-2016, 08:09 AM   #18
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The Lions Club does good works but is it common practice for towns where they have a presence to buy them a club house? If the town effectively is paying all the bills (what else is left?) maybe the town, if it wants to, should just take it over as a public facility and rent it out to people who want to use it, including the Lions Club. There could be allowances for school groups, scouts, and others. It probably won't make much, if any, money.

The question is, does the town really need such a facility?
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Old 04-17-2016, 08:20 AM   #19
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Quote:
The question is, does the town really need such a facility?
No offense, that's not the question at this time. I would have agreed in 2007 when it was bought.

The town has owned it for 9 years and it is a 10 year lease. Selling the property was brought up during the fight about the $6.4 million Taylor property Community Center fiasco.

The issue now, is, let the property continue to deteriorate, or rejuvenate it and minimize the possibly, past mistake in buying the property.
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Old 04-17-2016, 08:27 AM   #20
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If I remember correctly, the Lions Club was purchased by the town with the purpose in mind of making it the new rec center. That was rejected by the taxpayers years ago, and the current "lease" arrangements were done to cover the (advertised) reason (after the fact) for purchasing it.

This rec center idea, or what ever it is called at the time, has been attempted to be forced down the throats of the town taxpayers for years, especially when there is a year when the PTB don't have a bond to float. Time for this nonsense to end and some fiscal responsibility enter the arena. Pay off our debts and cover essentials before taking on anything else.
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Old 04-17-2016, 08:36 AM   #21
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Quote:
Time for this nonsense
Which nonsense?

The recreation folks, who want to have taxpayers pay for recreation in a region renown for free recreation activity? The taxpayers who don't want to fund a free babysitting service via the Rec. Dept.? Another gym? Two and half gyms are not enough for less than 500 "kids" in the schools? The programs for grades 1,2,3, sports that taxpayers have to pay for?

Maybe another petition to eliminate the Recreation Department is what is needed. They put in for another budget of over $300,000 and thank goodness the TA cut it back to $275,000.

Maybe a different thread is needed. This one is fixing the town property bought almost 10 years ago and salvaging value for the taxpayers.
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Old 04-17-2016, 08:44 AM   #22
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Which nonsense?
I think the plural of nonsense is nonsense, so I was referring to all of the above. I wasn't intending on diverting the attention of how to fix a screw up of buying the Lions Club in the first place. Back to the regularly scheduled program.
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Old 04-17-2016, 08:48 AM   #23
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Quote:
I was referring to all of the above.
There are many more. Stipulate them. Nonsense is in the eyes of the beholder!

Looking forward to continuing this later. Heading out for breakfast.
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Old 04-17-2016, 10:00 AM   #24
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I think the wording on these is a bit confusing. The special vote is only to see if the town will form a committee for both locations, correct? So if they pass the committee forms and comes up with a proposal that would then have a funding request attached. That request would then be voted on at town meeting?
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Old 04-17-2016, 10:07 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longislander View Post
Which nonsense?

The recreation folks, who want to have taxpayers pay for recreation in a region renown for free recreation activity? The taxpayers who don't want to fund a free babysitting service via the Rec. Dept.? Another gym? Two and half gyms are not enough for less than 500 "kids" in the schools? The programs for grades 1,2,3, sports that taxpayers have to pay for?

Maybe another petition to eliminate the Recreation Department is what is needed. They put in for another budget of over $300,000 and thank goodness the TA cut it back to $275,000.

Maybe a different thread is needed. This one is fixing the town property bought almost 10 years ago and salvaging value for the taxpayers.

You can try to spin this however you wish but this petition and the out of schedule and costly by the way, town meeting is a Trojan horse for the Very costly and hardly needed Rec center.

Do not be fooled.
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Old 04-17-2016, 11:06 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longislander View Post
No offense, that's not the question at this time. I would have agreed in 2007 when it was bought.

The town has owned it for 9 years and it is a 10 year lease. Selling the property was brought up during the fight about the $6.4 million Taylor property Community Center fiasco.

The issue now, is, let the property continue to deteriorate, or rejuvenate it and minimize the possibly, past mistake in buying the property.
Why shouldn't that be the question? If it is decided that the property/facility is NOT needed, sell it. Frankly, I'm not weighing in on one side or another (yet). However, too many towns charge ahead with projects that a group of people are all excited about. 5 to 10 years later it's proven a complete waste. Here's a case where things have been tried out for a while. Is it working? Were the original projected expenses/income correct? Is it being used as expected? Evaluate and dump it if not up to expectations. If it is, fix it up and move forward.
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Old 04-17-2016, 11:55 AM   #27
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Quote:
Why shouldn't that be the question?
Repeat ... that is not the question. It may become the question, and has been anticipated. However, it is doubtful it would pass. Sell it and then what? Go back to trying peddle the Tah Majal.

Quote:
If it is, fix it up and move forward.
Precisely! Got to get there first. Someone can put their petition to sell it, and it will probably get put on the warrant. Just get 50 voters to sign a petition and democracy work.

Was waiting for someone to bring expense of a meeting. Expense compared to what. A $495,000 property and a $275,000 property that can be put to greater use! Define expense!

These Articles, if passed, would move forward ... away from the Tah Majal and to rehabilitating a Community Center already paid for.

Quote:
Do not be fooled.
How many fools are there in Town. No scarcity, probably!


Quote:
The special vote is only to see if the town will form a committee for both locations, correct? So if they pass the committee forms and comes up with a proposal that would then have a funding request attached. That request would then be voted on at town meeting?
Almost correct ... no funding request.

NH law prevents bringing up funding, appropriations, budgets etc. without Superior Court approval. That would be done later, not at this meeting. It would come up as a BoS warrant article when there was agreement on what/how to "fix" the Lion's Club. A Green Town Park/Common could be an attraction for MoBo and attract business into the village. Better than looking like driving through Appalachia! No offense to Appalachia.

All this petition does, is set up a committee, appointed by the new town moderator (keeps out the hacks that have been pushing their agenda) and could include snowbirds who haven't been heard; enough members to argue about everything; come up with a proposal for the annual town meeting, where it can be "tweeked" again with possible corrections. It gives plenty of time so that the "democratic process is not taken away".


PS:
Breakfast at George's in Meredith was fine, and the summer crowd already visiting, was evident.

PPS: No Superior Court approval is needed for the Annual Town Meeting; only if a Special Town Meeting is called.
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Old 04-17-2016, 12:58 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by longislander View Post
Repeat ... that is not the question. It may become the question, and has been anticipated. However, it is doubtful it would pass. Sell it and then what? Go back to trying peddle the Tah Majal.
This is just one, of several times, on this thread that you have had a condescending attitude towards other posters that have an opposing view to yours.

Your agenda here is very clear. I hope when you go back to your seat on the board that you will be a little more respectful to pubic opinion.
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Old 04-17-2016, 02:13 PM   #29
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This is just one, of several times, on this thread that you have had a condescending attitude towards other posters that have an opposing view to yours.

Your agenda here is very clear. I hope when you go back to your seat on the board that you will be a little more respectful to pubic opinion.
Condescending? Factual, maybe. I thought some of the other posters, not all, were belligerent toward me, or my posts! Kind-a-like a know-it-all attitude not with facts ... only opinion. I never said ignorance!

If challenged I'll respond, as I'm doing now. I'm not going to apologize for misinformation , or opinion being presented as facts. Not agreeing with someone is proper discourse in format that invites information AND opinion. You are entitled to yours, as I.

On what Board? I attend the meetings and, those in the know, view me as, I've announced ... the town hemorrhoid! I've even passed out small tubes of preparation-H ... gratis!

Respect for truth, not erroneous dilutions of grandeur. How's that for being condescending.

My agenda is, hopefully, clear. It is getting a Special Town Meeting for votes on two articles presented.

I notice you don't have a "location".
What's your agenda?
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Old 04-17-2016, 03:10 PM   #30
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I agree with Sue Doe Nym. The proposed petition is not a wise move. Beyond the fact that I do not believe anything should be done in terms of a recreation center, the petition is far too vague and has the potential to open the door to all manner of Trojan Horses and similar creatures. Monitor the goings on regarding the upcoming end of the term of the lease to the Lions Club. Unless I am missing something there are no extension or option terms in the Lease.
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Old 04-17-2016, 03:35 PM   #31
longislander
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What is vague about a town meeting with two articles?

Results are not determined ... sure. Are you sure there won't be a 25 voter petition in March 2017, and have an hour or so to argue about another attempt at a Taj Majal. Which is the worst?

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Unless I am missing something there are no extension or option terms in the Lease.
What you're missing is, it is already on the BoS agenda for work session. There won't be any more. You notice the present lease ends in June 2017. I presume the renewal, will need to go in front of the legislative body, the voters, in March 2017. The same meeting as being proposed for this petition.

Lease renewal was already on a BoS meeting agenda close to 3 years ago!
BoS meeting agenda of June 18, 2013

http://www.moultonborough.org/Pages/...4-18-2013b.pdf
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Old 04-17-2016, 03:48 PM   #32
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I am not going to engage you in a debate. I have stated my opinion. You disagree. That is the end. Any 50 voters can start the petition moving, but I think you will find that many of those who opposed, and continue to oppose, the Recreation Center concept presented at Town Meeting will not be in favor of such a petition..
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Old 04-17-2016, 04:59 PM   #33
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Just so I am clear, you believe it is appropriate use of taxpayer dollars to perform renovations/maintenance on a building for which it receives no rent payments and for which the tenant is legally obligated to maintain is appropriate?
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Old 04-17-2016, 05:36 PM   #34
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Just so I am clear, you ...
Hey folks, just got back from the BoBHouse for dinner. Great food and beverage. It's better than a distemper shot!
Who is you? Be clear!

If you're referring to me, and do I:

Quote:
...you believe it is appropriate use of taxpayer dollars to perform renovations/maintenance on a building for which it receives no rent payments and for which the tenant is legally obligated to maintain is appropriate?
Of course, for this case, if you mean adhere to the contract! It is a legally binding document and has negative legal recourse. Don't you follow NH law?

If you're asking me if I think it was a good contract, go back and read my opening statement:

Quote:
"... appears legally odd."
Another reason to have the summer meeting, before the BoS sign another incestuous contract. What would you suggest ... violate NH contract law?
Please ... think about what you're saying!

Regarding debate and ending. No problem, no contest!

Opinion means nothing, in the face of legitimate, democratic votes.
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Old 04-17-2016, 06:25 PM   #35
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If I lived in Moultonborough, I would move.
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Old 04-17-2016, 09:18 PM   #36
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Default Please read the blog!!

Luckily, there is a blog that is making sure the truth on these issues and comments and suggestions is being told, since the original poster has ceased commenting and quoting every rsa in the book on that site. 😉 Not sure if it's allowed to post the link here...
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Old 04-18-2016, 06:58 AM   #37
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Many of us in MoBo would like to just "fly away". Instead, some are fed up with the stranglehold of 200 or so "townies" that have run the the town, while relying on the "cash cow" of non-residents, who cannot legally vote.

Quote:
Luckily, there is a blog that is making sure the truth on these issues and comments and suggestions is being told, since the original poster has ceased commenting and quoting every rsa in the book on that site. 😉 Not sure if it's allowed to post the link here...
Yes, I was asked to stop posting to the blog, but not by the blogger. Many felt I was making it too interesting and informative. They believe let him talk to himself, and his lemmings. Many enjoy reading for themselves the NH Revised Statutes Annotated (NH laws). They just needed a little help on where to find them. They also relish articles from the New Hampshire Municipal Association. These folks are not as interested in hearsay opinion. The blogger, for the most part, provides some background data; even if he has to make it up. Other times, its good info.

I still read it now and then. The latest thread is about the Lion's Club. There's some good info from the Historical Society. Not from some pablum from the hysterical society (sic). Some of them reading this!

Those that frequent that blog should have noticed the top poster is now the blogger. Seems the posts declined quite a bit

I'm not a lemming. Those lemmings that want to accept all they are being fed, and jump off cliffs ...

BON APPETIT!
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Old 04-18-2016, 07:10 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by longislander View Post
My agenda is, hopefully, clear. It is getting a Special Town Meeting for votes on two articles presented.
The below is from this Forums "Posting Guidelines":

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Take Your Agenda Elsewhere

If you are here to conduct a crusade or push an agenda you'll have a problem with the moderator. Members are expected to participate in a friendly and helpful way and to respect everyone's views and opinions.
http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...lines_faq_item
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Old 04-18-2016, 07:41 AM   #39
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Have Something to Say

This is not a chat-room. Not all messages must be momentous but we prefer messages which actually contribute something. Try not to post one-liners or "chat-room" like replies.
They also state the above.

I started this thread inquiring if other towns or folks had experience with Special Town Meetings. Are folks even aware of Special Town Meetings?
Maybe some are "contributing something"!

My agenda was submitted to the MoBo Select Board as a courtesy copy, not this forum. I do relish the feedback and debate; as the rules state, something is being contributed.

Another contribution, is an observation of how people handle views, that don't concur with theirs. Yours truly included. That alone is worth viewing!
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Old 04-18-2016, 08:45 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by DesertDweller View Post
Thanks for posting a link to the lease.

So, correct me if I misspeak, the Town of Moultonborough buys the land and building for $495,000 from the Lions Club, leases it back to them for $0 in rental payments, charges no property taxes, and has the obligation to maintain exterior of the building and the grounds including plowing and mowing the lawn. Lessee (i.e. the Lions Club) is responsible for the repair and maintenance of all plumbing, heating, air conditioning, etc. as part of the lease but the petition is to have the taxpayers of Moultonborough foot the bill for it.

Doesn't seem real equitable to me but, then again, I only get to pay taxes not vote.
I disagree about the responsibility for the maintenance.

The attached slice of the lease says the town (lessor) is responsible to "maintain the grounds including the parking areas to include plowing, sanding, and mowing".

The Lions Club (lessee) is "responsible for repair and maintenance of all plumbing, heating, air conditioning, ventilating, electrical and lighting systems and equipment within the leased premises, all exterior maintenance of the building including painting, as well as all portions of the premises not the express responsibility of the LESSOR". Underlining is mine.

I am not a lawyer and do not play one on TV but the EXPRESS responsibilities of the town seem to me to be grounds and parking area targeted at lawn mowing and plowing.

All portions of the premises not the EXPRESS responsibility of the town are up to the Lion's club. That certainly would mean any and all building work including painting a new roof, etc.

Sewer is not specifically mentioned but I would think since it is not EXPRESSLY called out as a responsibility of the town, it is the responsibility of the Lions Club. There might be a legal probe and discussion of what "maintaining the grounds" means and whether common use would include septic systems on the grounds. I suspect not but with our legal system, who knows.

Given all this, I would think that if the property is in disrepair (excluding for now the septic system whose responsibility might be in question) that it a breach of contract by the Lions Club.

I recently sold my house in Moultonborough so I don't have a vote but the answer to the only QUESTION that longislander wants to talk about (the warrant) should be no. The town should not bail out the Lions Club from it contractual duties.

I would think that people SHOULD be asking the question of whether the property is needed and at what price? It seems clear that the Lions Club cannot meet their contractual obligations and the lease should not be renewed.

I would also ask why people seem to have an "all or nothing" attitude? I have been to the Lions Club several times for Scouting events, a fundraiser, a couple dinners, and a craft show (I think). It seems the building is useful although arguments certainly could be made to the opposite viewpoint. If the town accepted full responsibility for it, fixed it up, and maybe even made some minor upgrades, how much would it cost? Might that not be a reasonable solution? Why are polarizing Taj Majal proposals submitted instead of practical ones that might have a chance of passing a vote?
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Old 04-18-2016, 09:20 AM   #41
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Given all this, I would think that if the property is in disrepair (excluding for now the septic system whose responsibility might be in question) that it a breach of contract by the Lions Club
It has already been stated that there is belief of a state of disrepair.

If a contract is breached there is remedy in the courts, notwithstanding anyone's OPINION!

Quote:
I don't have a vote but the answer to the only QUESTION that longislander wants to talk about (the warrant) should be no. The town should not bail out the Lions Club from it contractual duties.
You don't have a vote, but a faulty premise. Your opinion is yours.

I'm not an attorney, either. I've been a certified paralegal since the early eighties, was accepted to law school (chose not to attend ... doing better in industry). My three degrees are in business (including post graduate level). I'm also aware that only an attorney can give legal advice. It is against NH law. Google UPL law ... unlawful practice of law. The state and federal Constitutions protect freedom of speech however. I've stated many times (not here) that I may be giving, my opinion not advice, with relevant statute.

It appears you fail to understand the town already owns the property and the lease is coming up for renewal. Maybe associating that event with "putting to bed" the Tah Majal, and putting to use the $275,000 Taylor property escapes some.


Quote:
If the town accepted full responsibility for it, fixed it up, and maybe even made some minor upgrades, how much would it cost? Might that not be a reasonable solution? Why are polarizing Taj Majal proposals submitted instead of practical ones that might have a chance of passing a vote?
The town has full responsibility!
Who is arguing with the balance of the quote????????????
Who is, presently proposing the Taj Mahal? Surely not me. I just don't want taxpayer money wasted, and back-door townie agreements!

Polarizing in your eyes ... a process in other eyes, with the added ingredient of trying to prevent previous agendas and their proponents.

What is polarizing about "repairing and rehabbing" the Lion's Club, which is actually town property, used as a Community Center, and create a Green town Common?
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Old 04-18-2016, 09:55 AM   #42
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How about they knock the building down, plant trees, and then the town donates the property to the Lakes region conservation trust as permanent green space/wildlife habitat. Problem solved!
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Old 04-18-2016, 10:01 AM   #43
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Thanks for your opinion longislander. It seems pointless to continue this discussion. I have said what I wanted to.
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Old 04-18-2016, 10:27 AM   #44
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Thanks for your opinion longislander. It seems pointless to continue this discussion. I have said what I wanted to.
Quote:
How about they knock the building down, plant trees, and then the town donates the property to the Lakes region conservation trust as permanent green space/wildlife habitat. Problem solved!
Speaking personally, maybe an opinion ...

I have no problem with either comment!
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