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Old 07-20-2012, 11:41 AM   #1
Webbsatwinni
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Default Is this hypocritical?

I try to stay away from the political debates on here, but this one item I thought I would toss out and get opinions.

My 13 year old daughter and I drool on performance boats when we are at the town docks or see them go by on the broads. My lovey bride sees this and said, ok, go get one. So the search started and we found a very clean used Formula in Gilford and started to look at it. After calling on it, I found out it was brokered by a marina that openly supported the speed limit.

My question is more around the ethics behind this than the right and wrong of the limits (By my search you can tell where I stand), and the question is:

Should a business that openly supported the limits sell the very boats it was trying to control?

Based on my thinking that this was not an ethical way of doing business, I did not proceed with the purchase (and I would have bought it). It is not the boat owner's fault that he chose this marina as a broker, but unfortunately their linkage to the political side hurt a potential sale.

Am I making to much of this connection and the marina making money off the very thing they were against? Just curious as this is a big debate amongst my circle of friends.
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Old 07-20-2012, 11:45 AM   #2
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Why is this BS being brought up again? It has already split this forum into factions.
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Old 07-20-2012, 11:56 AM   #3
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Default Is this hypocritical?

I am certainly not going to jump into the debate over the speed limit, but, quite possibly, the broker is just trying to broker a boat. Business is business, and, in today's economy, somebody in sales is just trying to make a sale (pronounced l-i-v-i-n-g). At some marine supplies and toys stores you can buy tubes for more than two people, but in NH you can't have more than two people off a boat at one time. I know, somewhat different perspective, but similar philosophy.

Trying to overlay retail behavior with political feelings would be very difficult, and would probably curtail the retail opportunities severly. I just don't think the two can be mixed, in the market place, even though they have the water as a common denominator.
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Old 07-20-2012, 11:57 AM   #4
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Arrow SL is Over

Time to move forward. Buy the boat if it's still available and have lots of fun!!!!!
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Old 07-20-2012, 11:57 AM   #5
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I don't feel its BS, you may not care about dealing with ethical businesses but I do and I wanted to see if I was in a majority or minority. Sorry you feel its BS.
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Old 07-20-2012, 12:16 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by camp guy View Post
I am certainly not going to jump into the debate over the speed limit, but, quite possibly, the broker is just trying to broker a boat. Business is business, and, in today's economy, somebody in sales is just trying to make a sale (pronounced l-i-v-i-n-g). At some marine supplies and toys stores you can buy tubes for more than two people, but in NH you can't have more than two people off a boat at one time. I know, somewhat different perspective, but similar philosophy.

Trying to overlay retail behavior with political feelings would be very difficult, and would probably curtail the retail opportunities severly. I just don't think the two can be mixed, in the market place, even though they have the water as a common denominator.

Camp Guy, the tubing law has recently changed you can now tube up too 6 people .
see the discussion here
http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...ad.php?t=14136
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Old 07-20-2012, 12:34 PM   #7
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Default Buy The Boat!

Websatt;

Here's my view... What's wrong with the marina selling the performance boat? They were for the speed limit to keep boats from exceeding a certain speed not targeting specific brands or types. Heck my pontoon boat can break the speed limit should they not sell those? The same question can be asked of you, are you buying the boat because you like the style and characteristics or because you want to break the speed limit??... They are selling the boat with the hopes the new owner will simply obey the law on the lake or trailer it offshore to open her up.

There are some who feel any business that was for the speed limit should be boycotted... I could not disagree more with something as downright childish as that. Just because someone has a differing opinion or point of view on an issue does not mean they should be boycotted. Where does something like that end?...I have friends and neighbors on my island who supported the speed limit should they no longer be my friends...Of course not! Thurston's Marina and Fay's have been extremely helpful to me over the years storing and servicing my boats, should I no longer take my boats there because they supported the speed limit and I was against it?...again, of course not!

My point is this... buy the boat, obey the lake speed limit and enjoy your time on the lake, it's really that simple. Oh yeah, If you do buy it, I'm on Welch if you want to swing by and take me for a ride!!

Dan

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Old 07-20-2012, 12:54 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Webbsatwinni View Post
Should a business that openly supported the limits sell the very boats it was trying to control?
Would you have any aversion to buying a Ferrari from a car dealer that has a sign on the wall that says Drive Responsably..?

I guess I'm having difficulty figuring out your concerns. NB

PS: Now if that dealer was a Democrat..FORGET IT.. No Sale.
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Old 07-20-2012, 12:59 PM   #9
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Default NH Marinas

The majority of the NH marinas stayed nuetral during the debates. Mostly because of the politics behind the NH Marine Association. I went into detail in another thread and I don't want to dive into it again.

The biggest and oldest marinas on the lake that are owned by the same family with the exeption of Fay's were against the speed limit. Their forefathers were heavy into racing and racing is what put Weirs Beach on the map.

My family have always done business with these marinas and the families know each other well. I don't care if a marina supports the speed limit or not, if they want to do business with courtesy and respect, they have my dollars.

I went to Thurston once to purchase a certain waterski even though he was for the speed limit. He knew who I am and what I represented. He kindly walked me out the door.

I have a Formula and Lakeport Landing sales and services are second to none. I also slip my boat there. Its up to you, if you want top notch service, I would not walk away.
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Old 07-20-2012, 01:10 PM   #10
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So who's ethic are you worried about, the marina?

So they backed the SL because they thought it would help their business and now they want to sell a performance boat because it would help their business. Seems ethical to me. And also it's hypocritical, but businesses are more interested in cash then logical consistency. The owners and their families have to eat.

I personally try to stay away from businesses that vocally supported the SL, they chose that path, they have to live with it. I'm not religious about it, given the C-man gift cards people give me as gifts.
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Old 07-20-2012, 02:17 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Webbsatwinni View Post
I don't feel its BS, you may not care about dealing with ethical businesses but I do and I wanted to see if I was in a majority or minority. Sorry you feel its BS.
You are entitled to your opinion and quite frankly I would not want to buy from a marine that deals from both sides of the deck, makes me wonder what they are willing to have two positions on, like making money selling me services I don't need because they need a sale.

I think its a legit question and my answer is I would be bothered by this "conflict". That said if its just brokered by this dealer and you will not be dealing with them again after the sale, then in that case it may make less of a concern as you are not buying into a relationship with them. i.e. no warranty like with a new boat where you would want to return to the selling dealer for service and support.

Others opinions will very, but don't worry that your concerns are not valid and even if I did not agree I still feel like you have a right to post the question.

Happy Boating if you buy, the Formulas look GREAT and as a GFBL boater who drives slow and who always has my captains call set to quiet, I say sport boats = FUN!

GH

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Old 07-20-2012, 03:33 PM   #12
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Would you have any aversion to buying a Ferrari from a car dealer that has a sign on the wall that says Drive Responsably..?
If it said drive 55, I wouldn't. If it said I can't drive 55, heck yeah!
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Old 07-20-2012, 03:37 PM   #13
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Oh yeah, If you do buy it, I'm on Welch if you want to swing by and take me for a ride!!
You bet! I am buying something and will stop by for a nice ride.
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Old 07-20-2012, 06:50 PM   #14
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If it said drive 55, I wouldn't. If it said I can't drive 55, heck yeah!
Hey Webb: BUY the boat. You will like it and get over your self imposed restrictions as soon as you take it out. NB
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Old 07-22-2012, 06:46 AM   #15
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You bet! I am buying something and will stop by for a nice ride.
I am familiar with the boat, it is usually docked in gilford yacht club, across from Jrc. Recently the same dealer was selling a fountain as well. I too found it comical.

There are plenty of deals out there right now, especially if you get out of the area. We bought a 2007 Monterey 298sc ssx on a trailer out of Texas. It had 41 hours on the engines and 4.9 on the genset. The deal was just too good to pass up and the boat certainly has lived up to our expectations.

We had a modified sonic last year which was a blast, but this is a much better fit for us. It wil still run around 60 but without the added attraction. I always felt like I had to watch it in the sonic, like I was constantly being watched when under power. I was followed a few times.
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Old 07-22-2012, 07:05 AM   #16
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There are plenty of deals out there right now, especially if you get out of the area. We bought a 2007 Monterey 298sc ssx on a trailer out of Texas. It had 41 hours on the engines and 4.9 on the genset. The deal was just too good to pass up and the boat certainly has lived up to our expectations.
I'll second that, we got our Caravelle 23' Interceptor at the end of last season for a right price.

It is a 2007 that was only titled for 1 year and spend its whole life on the dealers floor before that. When we got it had 30 hours and I paid roughly 1/2 price!

The most important thing is to find a boat you will be comfortable in, and for us that meant small cabin and good cockpit space. I almost went for a 2001 Wellcraft Excalibur 26', but was worried it was a bit much to trailer all the time and it was older than I wanted. In hind site it might have been a bit better as there NEVER seems to be enough cockpit space,,,

In the end we do love the Caravelle and being so new with so few hours I think we did well, I'm sure you will find just as good a deal, just be sure to get in it and make sure it is a good fit for the family.

ATB - GH
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Old 07-22-2012, 07:53 AM   #17
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I am familiar with the boat, it is usually docked in gilford yacht club, across from Jrc. Recently the same dealer was selling a fountain as well. I too found it comical.
That's the one and my point exactly. I'm talking to a Sonic owner now, did you like the Sonic?
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Old 07-22-2012, 09:06 AM   #18
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Default Marine Supply

Sports paraphenalia and Irwin marine are the two biggest marine store on the lake. Both against the speed limit. It looks like the supporters rely on mail order and or West Marine in Portsmouth for their marine supply.

Great deals to be had on Craigslist and EBay. There as a 271 LS available with new motor for 13.5

Me?, I'm thinking of trading the Formula in for one of those McYacht. The supporters wants to limit size of boats so I guess I will eat my cake before it is outlawed.
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Old 07-22-2012, 10:47 AM   #19
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Me?, I'm thinking of trading the Formula in for one of those McYacht. The supporters wants to limit size of boats so I guess I will eat my cake before it is outlawed.
That will be a fun fight, I guess they will need to start having the Mini mount doing single rides around the lake.
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Old 07-22-2012, 06:37 PM   #20
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Oh that boat. I've met the owner, don't really know him well enough to say how he stood on the law.

I'm sure he will be disappointed to hear his boat didn't sell for that reason. Seemed like a nice boat, he didn't use it much.

We almost had to make a decision like yours, a few year back. A boat brand we liked was sold by a dealer we didn't, for the speed limit and other issues. Luckily we found another brand we liked better. I didn't have to test myself. My wife would have said, what are you worried about, our boat can't break the speed limit anyways.
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Old 07-22-2012, 08:41 PM   #21
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That's the one and my point exactly. I'm talking to a Sonic owner now, did you like the Sonic?
I loved it. The biggest concern with sonic is chasing down parts. Sonic has changed hands a few times and parts availability on older models is tough. Mine was a 2001 and at one time or another had everything on the boat replaced. It was a basket case when I got it, much to my surprise. I put another $10k into the boat and trailer before dumping it at the end of the season at a loss of that $10k. It ran about 85 and was smooth riding in all types of water. The acceleration was imsane, like nothing I have been in before.

Mine was a 2001 31ss I believe, it went to ny.
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Old 07-30-2012, 10:51 AM   #22
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Default Weirs Time

Check out the bottom of page 34 in the July 26th edition.
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Old 09-09-2012, 03:43 PM   #23
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Taken on 9/9/12. I don't like hypocrites. 'Nuf said.
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Old 09-09-2012, 06:33 PM   #24
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Taken on 9/9/12. I don't like hypocrites. 'Nuf said.
What are you trying to say with this? It seems you are saying one should not support the SL and then sell a boat like this. Am I understanding you right?
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Old 09-09-2012, 06:47 PM   #25
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I agree with Seaplane Pilot. If he is against the speed limit, he shouldn't be selling boats like that.
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Old 09-09-2012, 07:53 PM   #26
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They have had a few, a formula and a fountain this year, maybe others. At least one of each that I have seen. The pictured one is not on their used list tonight.

I agree, total hypocrit.
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Old 09-10-2012, 07:32 AM   #27
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What are you trying to say with this? It seems you are saying one should not support the SL and then sell a boat like this. Am I understanding you right?
That was the point I started the thread with. I realize it's business and that they will do anything for money, but people should align themselves with dealers and businesses that prove to support the products they are selling.

It does not have to do with the speed limit itself, but the sale of a boat that they clearly want to rid the lake of. Hypocritical to me.
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Old 09-10-2012, 07:38 AM   #28
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What are you trying to say with this? It seems you are saying one should not support the SL and then sell a boat like this. Am I understanding you right?
Yes, I'm saying that's my opinion and position in the matter. You win the prize.
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Old 09-12-2012, 11:49 AM   #29
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Go to www.faysboatyard.com used boats, and you should learn that this performance boat is a consignment sale ...... so the boat owner has picked Fay's for his venue to get the boat sold......who know's.......maybe the boat owner had it listed all summer on Craigslist.....and just recently decided to give Fay's a try. As I understand, Fay's makes a specified percentage of the selling price, do not know what that is, and has a minimum $750 fee on each boat sale.


Is there any chance that could be a Fountain for $9500?
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Old 09-12-2012, 02:32 PM   #30
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Go to www.faysboatyard.com used boats, and you should learn that this performance boat is a consignment sale ...... so the boat owner has picked Fay's for his venue to get the boat sold......who know's.......maybe the boat owner had it listed all summer on Craigslist.....and just recently decided to give Fay's a try. As I understand, Fay's makes a specified percentage of the selling price, do not know what that is, and has a minimum $750 fee on each boat sale.


Is there any chance that could be a Fountain for $9500?
Fay's should have refused to take the listing on principle - period. But instead, he sees $$$ and that's all that counts to him. I stand by my statements and position.
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Old 09-12-2012, 04:32 PM   #31
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Go to www.faysboatyard.com used boats, and you should learn that this performance boat is a consignment sale ...... so the boat owner has picked Fay's for his venue to get the boat sold......who know's.......maybe the boat owner had it listed all summer on Craigslist.....and just recently decided to give Fay's a try. As I understand, Fay's makes a specified percentage of the selling price, do not know what that is, and has a minimum $750 fee on each boat sale.


Is there any chance that could be a Fountain for $9500?
I can't figure out why Fay's ad about this boat on their website would contradict what he campaigned so hard for...and that is reduce boat speed.
Either you are for boat speed or you are against all that it stands for...and that includes advertising that a boat will reach 100 MPH.

This is what the ad states:

"Unbelievable 38’ Fountain fever with twin supercharged 502’s this is simply the best 38’ fountain Fever on the market. She has been babied her entire life. Always lift kept, and flushed after every run. Twin 502's with only 180 hours, will help this boat cruise at 70 and hit a top speed of 100. This is the Anniversary edition, so it is loaded with extras!!!
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Old 09-12-2012, 05:46 PM   #32
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Obviously, ethics takes a back seat to ca$h.

This doesn't surprise me in the least.
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Old 09-12-2012, 06:31 PM   #33
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OMG Rusty! Someone fibbed about why they wanted a law.

I think he backed the law because he thought it would put more money in his pocket. I think he's selling this boat because it will put money in his pocket.

He is very consistent and doing what a business owner should, earning money for his family. It's only the fools that thought he pushed the law for safety, that are surprised.
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Old 09-13-2012, 02:30 PM   #34
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Probably, the person who wrote the ad desrcription was not the owner of Fay's Boat Yard, but was in the sales dept at www.faysboatyard.com and wants to make his payday by finding a performance boat buyer out there.........somewhere!


More important ......what's the asking price on this 38' Fountain Fever?
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Old 09-13-2012, 03:04 PM   #35
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FLL, the asking price is $99,000. BTW, the model year of that boat is 1999. Looks very clean too!
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Old 09-14-2012, 08:34 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by NHBUOY View Post
Obviously, ethics takes a back seat to ca$h.

This doesn't surprise me in the least.
Following that video, those 38' Fountains soon may be flooding the market!

I suspect that boat will be sold out-of-state.

However, I can see the salesman saying, "Too bad you'd be ticketed if you use half of this speedboat's potential...let me show you this beautiful—and brand-new sailboat over here—for far less...No fuel expenses, and great viewing of the mountains around the lake."

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Old 09-14-2012, 07:56 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by fatlazyless View Post
I've run into Merrill Fay over at the Gilford Lowe's store a couple times......he drives a smallish, work model, pickup truck, and he sort of looks like an older NH farmer........someone who's done physical labor all his life......work'n on a farm or something
And what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?
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Old 09-15-2012, 12:40 PM   #38
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Speaking of Fay's. Maybe four years ago, I was in Fay's on business and Merrill Fay came up to me in the repair dept. and asked me if I would like to sign "The Petition" that I was reading. I declined but said I would think about it.

Shameless Plug: That same afternoon, maybe 2:30 PM, I special ordered a pair of exhaust manifolds and risers for my Go Fast. I always spend my vacations working on the boat. The new manifolds were on Fay's doorstep at 8:00 AM the next morning, shipped from Connecticut during the night. No Charge for the shipping. NB

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Old 09-15-2012, 06:53 PM   #39
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Speaking of Fay's. Maybe four years ago, I was in Fay's on business and Merrill Fay came up to me in the repair dept. and asked me if I would like to sign "The Petition" that I was reading. I declined but said I would think about it.

Shameless Plug: That same afternoon, maybe 2:30 PM, I special ordered a pair of exhaust manifolds and risers for my Go Fast. I always spend my vacations working on the boat. The new manifolds were on Fay's doorstep at 8:00 AM the next morning, shipped from Connecticut during the night. No Charge for the shipping. NB
I might add.. the PRICE was right as well.
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Old 09-18-2012, 06:57 AM   #40
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And what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?
Ok ....probably not an appropriate comment coming from me .... and hey, maybe I'm not the brightest bulb on the tree and .... this probably comes from the Dept of Idiotic Comments...... so it got deleted by me.......thankyou very much and have a good night!
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