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Old 12-26-2010, 08:37 PM   #101
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I'm just looking at Google Earth today of Ellacoya State Park as I got interested in this thread. I AM a Sailor.

In Newport, RI we have Sail Newport situated at Fort Adams which is a State Park. There is plenty of room at this location. Almost all the boats are "Dry Sailed".... ie: The boats are stored On Land.. On Trailers .... and launched when required. Other larger boats are on moorings. There is ROOM.

I see NO SUCH ROOM at Ellacoya. You need room for Car Parking AND Boat Parking.

I also see some very shallow water for quite a distance off shore at that site. I think someone mentioned this much earlier. If the prevailing wind is on shore..and the sailors are NOVICE...STUDENTS..getting a daggerboard boat ..such as a Laser, into deep enough water to sail OUT of the shallow water UPWIND is..at best frustrating...and at worst Futile...for a veteran OR a beginner.

I have no dog in this fight but this idea seems ...A REAL STRETCH. There is NO Space..... unless you TAKE OVER and Eliminate the RV Park. Just sayin...

I am a Sailor..(Offshore and Long Distance..30+ years) and I promote youth learning to sail. I think Ellacoya is not the place. NB
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Old 12-27-2010, 03:31 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoBozo View Post
I'm just looking at Google Earth today of Ellacoya State Park as I got interested in this thread. I AM a Sailor.

In Newport, RI we have Sail Newport situated at Fort Adams which is a State Park. There is plenty of room at this location. Almost all the boats are "Dry Sailed".... ie: The boats are stored On Land.. On Trailers .... and launched when required. Other larger boats are on moorings. There is ROOM.

I see NO SUCH ROOM at Ellacoya. You need room for Car Parking AND Boat Parking.

I also see some very shallow water for quite a distance off shore at that site. I think someone mentioned this much earlier. If the prevailing wind is on shore..and the sailors are NOVICE...STUDENTS..getting a daggerboard boat ..such as a Laser, into deep enough water to sail OUT of the shallow water UPWIND is..at best frustrating...and at worst Futile...for a veteran OR a beginner.

I have no dog in this fight but this idea seems ...A REAL STRETCH. There is NO Space..... unless you TAKE OVER and Eliminate the RV Park. Just sayin...

I am a Sailor..(Offshore and Long Distance..30+ years) and I promote youth learning to sail. I think Ellacoya is not the place. NB
Hello!

I worked for several hours today on a response to the issues raised in your e-mail, but Ifailed to save it and subsequently I lost it.

Please call me at 603-759-2510 so we can chat. You have raised several important issues that we have addressed in detail and I'd like to discuss them with you. Happy New Year!

Tom Mullen
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Old 12-28-2010, 11:35 AM   #103
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Hello!

I worked for several hours today on a response to the issues raised in your e-mail, but Ifailed to save it and subsequently I lost it.

Please call me at 603-759-2510 so we can chat. You have raised several important issues that we have addressed in detail and I'd like to discuss them with you. Happy New Year!

Tom Mullen
Quote from my post. ...."and I promote youth learning to sail....." NB

Hi Tom: Perhaps I should have used a different term such as I "Encourage" youth learning to sail. I am not engaged, nor have I been engaged in actually Promoting sailing for youths. Sorry if my post was misleading. NB
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Old 12-30-2010, 08:08 AM   #104
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A photo or a few photos of the existing Ellacoya RV campground, waterfront area, bathroom building, access road, and existing bootleg boat ramp and circular dirt drive would add a lot to this thread.

It sure seems to me that there's a heck of a lot of open and unused area abutting the undeveloped sandy beach that's in front of the rv campground. As it currently exists, the sandy beach has no dock, no paved boat launch access, no accessory building(s), no mooring field, no boats, no nothing except a sandy natural beach. Immediately next door, you have the Lake Shore park residential area which is a lot more thoroughly developed and used. There is a sewerage pumping station located just across the chain link fence, on Ellacoya property, from the Lake Shore Park, which is probably one reason why so much cottage construction, close to one another, was allowed there over the last 125-years (or, something like that?).
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Old 12-30-2010, 11:48 AM   #105
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Default where is my Staples "easy button"

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A photo or a few photos of the existing Ellecoya RV campground, waterfront area, bathroom building, access road, and existing bootleg boat ramp and circular dirt drive would add a lot to this thread.
"That was easy"

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Old 12-30-2010, 01:31 PM   #106
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Thanks for the aerial photo......never could have done that myself....too technology challenging for me......technology dummy here! That's an excellent photo too, so thanks again!

From the photo, it looks like the unlabeled sewerage pumping station utility building is actually on the Lake Shore Park property, and right on the right hand border between Lake Shore Park & the waterfront dirt access road in Ellacoya.

Just look at all the oak trees in full leaf up top, just below the sandy beach, and not far from the rest room building.......a considerable amount of open treed space there. The rest room building is on the right side, close to the boundary, close to the unimproved boat launch, and close to the sandy beach. That one large restroom & shower building is the only structure that is up front of the rv parking sites and somewhat close to the water.

A healthy looking stream, the Poor Farm Brook, separates the rv campground (37 sites-forty seven dollars/night) on the right from the public (four dollar/adults) bathing beach on the left. If I remember correct, the U.S. Geological Survey is the federal agency that has a water level monitoring station on or in the Poor Farm Brook and close to the state highway.

The entire Ellacoya State Beach(left side) and RV Campground(right side) has 65.5 acres total, combined between the two, side by side, State of New Hampshire facilities.

Is there enough room up front for a sailing center on the under-used and totally undeveloped beach in front of the rv campground? Considering that the state wants the sailing center to pay for improvements to the access road, boat launch, and large rest room and shower building plus of course the expense of building the sailing center building and dock system plus some other items I do not recall......it would be a major community fund raising effort all around.
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Old 12-30-2010, 03:49 PM   #107
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I had no idea that Ellacoya boundry extended to the left, beyond the RV campground. I had thought the campground was IT. So maybe this idea is feasable after all. NB
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Old 12-30-2010, 03:56 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatlazyless View Post
Thanks for the aerial photo......never could have done that myself....too technology challenging for me......technology dummy here! That's an excellent photo too, so thanks again!

That's a Satellite Photo using Google Earth. It's real easy. Just "Google" ..Google Earth and download it and install it, then try it yourself. It's FREE. You can go anywhere in world and Zoom Down and see whatever you wish. When it's installed, it puts an Icon on your desktop so you can go there anytime. Find your own house. Look in your neighbors back yard..the one with the high fence... NB

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Old 12-30-2010, 05:46 PM   #109
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Default Yes the pumping station is on the LSP side

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From the photo, it looks like the unlabeled sewerage pumping station utility building is actually on the Lake Shore Park property, and right on the right hand border between Lake Shore Park & the waterfront dirt access road in Ellacoya
When the state wanted to put the line in, LSP allowed it to run thru the park, under our marina and then on thru Ellacoya. Saved the state tearing up Rt. 11 and made the hook-up for all of us in LSP a lot less expensive. Good deal all around.
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Old 12-30-2010, 08:16 PM   #110
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while I believe that the sailing program is an asset to all who take advantage of it,I must admit I am abit concerned as once you allow private concerns on public land it becomes very difficult to undue.While funds are needed from donations to keep the sailing program alive and growing I still haven't seen why a pavillion is needed. I would love to see my daughter learn to sail if she chooses I would donate for the opportunity,so I guess I'm missing the need for a new structure. If participants are either pay as you go or donating for the program is there really a need to add another burden such as building maintanence to the equation? JMHO,but I think maybe it deserves a look,and by the way if you haven't guessed I think the sailing program is a benefit to the region.
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Old 12-31-2010, 06:24 AM   #111
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I went to the Gilford tax map and the amount of land on the water side of route 11 that the Park actually uses is only 23 acres. According to the state website the land on the opposite side would be very difficult to develop for campsites. Unfortunately the size of the map file is to large to post.

Here is a link for the map. You can zoom in to it and it will give acres. http://www.mapsonline.net/gilfordnh/
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Old 12-31-2010, 06:59 AM   #112
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while I believe that the sailing program is an asset to all who take advantage of it,I must admit I am a bit concerned as once you allow private concerns on public land it becomes very difficult to undue.While funds are needed from donations to keep the sailing program alive and growing I still haven't seen why a pavilion is needed. I would love to see my daughter learn to sail if she chooses I would donate for the opportunity,so I guess I'm missing the need for a new structure. If participants are either pay as you go or donating for the program is there really a need to add another burden such as building maintenance to the equation? JMHO,but I think maybe it deserves a look,and by the way if you haven't guessed I think the sailing program is a benefit to the region.
I share the concern, the "rules" are not very clear. Here is a link to a bit of the history and "rules" for use of State parks. This link in specific to pavilions, but the entire site is worth a read.

http://www.nhstateparks.org/explore/...pavilions.aspx

NH has a strong history of the use of "public lands" for various activities. The whole website is educational. Hunters, campers, hikers, fishing , ski machine etc.. That's a good thing if and only if the people that use the public lands stick to the guidelines and rules of use.

The folks at the sailing club seem to me to have made a good case for approval of the sailing center. As a next door neighbor at LSP, I am concerned that the pavilion could be misused if the rules for it's use where not carefully crafted. That part of their proposal would needs to be watched very carefully.

JMHO
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Old 12-31-2010, 07:05 AM   #113
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I went to the Gilford tax map and the amount of land on the water side of route 11 that the Park actually uses is only 23 acres. According to the state website the land on the opposite side would be very difficult to develop for campsites. Unfortunately the size of the map file is to large to post.

Here is a link for the map. You can zoom in to it and it will give acres. http://www.mapsonline.net/gilfordnh/
Here is your map. (from Town map)

Note LSP property is on the right, the small blocked off area halfway down the line between LSP and Ellacoya is the state sewer pumping station.

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Old 12-31-2010, 07:07 AM   #114
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FLL
The sewerage pumping station utility building is not on Lake Shore Park property. The boundaries are marked in yellow.



The below photo shows the land on the opposite side of Rt 11.

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Old 12-31-2010, 07:56 AM   #115
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FLL
The sewerage pumping station utility building is not on Lake Shore Park property. The boundaries are marked in yellow.



The below photo shows the land on the opposite side of Rt 11.

Sam, is correct, I misstated. The cut out chunk of land for the pumping station transferred to the state at the time of the construction of the pumping station.
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Old 01-01-2011, 09:34 AM   #116
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As many reading this already know, the Ames Farm Inn boat launch area is a 5-10 minute drive south of the Ellacoya State Beach & RV Campground. With Ames' boat launch area now closed to none inn guests, i.e. day-tripper trailer boaters, it seems to me that building a state boat launch at Ellacoya that includes vehicle parking and rest rooms would quickly have Ellacoya replacing Ames as it was formerly used.

Newfound, Squam, & Winnisquam all have no-charge state boat launches whose construction was paid with money from boat registration fees. Winnipesaukee does not have a similar STATE boat launch, so putting one in at Ellacoya would be a big benefit to trailer boaters.

Is there room at Ellacoya for a sailboat center, boat launch, parking and existing rv campground? As the saying goes; where there's a will, there is a way! Or, at least a number of very interested family members!
..............

Ok.......here's something else for all you legal-beagles out there to consider! If we take a look at the original 1963 gift of the 65.5 acres of Ellacoya land that was donated by Heap Big Chief Ellacoya to the peoples of New Hampshire, we can easily see that this wonderfull 65.5 acre parcel of waterfront land came with a few strings attached. Namely, it came with a watersport use stipulation; "Whereby said 65.5 acres that includes two separate natural sandy beaches of 750' and 450' it is my strong belief that the entire 65.5 acres should be devoted to waterfront activities: Specifically; swimming, boating, sailing, sunbathing, waterskiing, wading, trailer boating, teaching sailing, kayaking, canoing, rowboating, rafting, motorboating, fishing, scuba diving and related activities!"

Note that rv campgrounding is simply not amoung the list of encouraged waterfront activities......NOT....as in NOWHERE....so what the heck is an rv campground that charges $47/night doing on the shores of Lake Winnipesaukee. Besides, most nights something like 75-90% of the sites go unused! And, consider that the not-so-far-away White Mountain National Forest has 23 different tent/rv campgrounds spread all over the highly scenic and geographically signifigant mountains of the white mountains and the U S Forest Service charges much less! The 23 WMNF campgrounds only cost $16 or $20/night depending on the individual campground's location!

So take that Ellacoya RV Campground......you are most definately way over-priced and way under-used and simply do not belong .......so just go away....and prepare to get reconstructed into a more State of NH - user friendly waterfront type of a use!!

thankyou & goodnight,
Ellecoya's grandson
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Old 01-05-2011, 08:02 AM   #117
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I hate to say it but I'm kind of with FLL on having some public boat ramp facilities on that site.
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Old 03-31-2011, 06:34 PM   #118
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I hate to say it but I'm kind of with FLL on having some public boat ramp facilities on that site.
Its too shallow in there for a "Ramp"
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Old 05-17-2011, 08:54 AM   #119
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Default Wave Fence

Tom Mullen has mentioned in two separate posts that a “Wave Fence” would be necessary to protect the mooring field, docks and sail boats from winds from the northeast, north and northwest. Not knowing what a “Wave Fence” was, I searched the Web and found the following. A “Wave Fence”, commercially called a “Wave Brake” is a floating device that is deployed similar to a “swim line”, except that it is approximately 6-8 feet wide and 3-4 feet high (see picture). Reviews of the Wave Brake are mixed; it does reduce wave action, but at the same time it also reduces line of sight from the beach. Especially from a seated position. The manufacture also warns of danger to swimmers. The device is heavy and in rough waves could injury a swimmer. Also there are a number of “pinch points” that could cause injuries to a swimmer trying to hold on to the device.

The "Wave Brake" would be deployed from the beach (near LSP) and run out (north) approximately 150 yards, then west paralal to beach until it hit the Scenic Drive shore.

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Old 05-24-2011, 01:25 PM   #120
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Default Is this already a done deal ?

Mr Mullen is well known, wealthy, and a politically influential man...all the questions, replies, complaints, and whatever else in the forum will not stop him from getting what he wants. The only way he will be stopped is thru the state and / or courts. He will not give up on this project because of a small group of disgruntled people. It doesn't hurt to nag Mr. Mullen via the Forum but we should also be 'nagging' the local and state politicians.
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Old 07-13-2011, 10:57 AM   #121
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Default Ellacoya camper

I camp at Ellacoya every year for 12 days as do a lot of my friends. We do not want to loose our park for a sailing club..We pay close to $50 a night for a quiet beach and a place for our boat, not to park in a parking lot and a noisy beach. Ellacoya is one of the most profitable state parks in NH. And we all spend alot while we are here. We just heard about this last week while we were there and are totally against it. There is plenty of land for sale around the lake they can buy it for market price instead of getting a deal from the state for their own use.
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Old 07-15-2011, 05:34 PM   #122
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Please be aware that the Sailing Center's plans do not impact the campground in any way other than to possibly enhance the types of water oriented activities that would be available for those people using the campground.

Tom Mullen
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Old 07-15-2011, 05:41 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by tomdonahue52 View Post
Mr Mullen is well known, wealthy, and a politically influential man...all the questions, replies, complaints, and whatever else in the forum will not stop him from getting what he wants. The only way he will be stopped is thru the state and / or courts. He will not give up on this project because of a small group of disgruntled people. It doesn't hurt to nag Mr. Mullen via the Forum but we should also be 'nagging' the local and state politicians.
Hello Tom,

I have worked very hard all my life and I have been fortunate to have achieved some successes. The Sailing Center is an opportunity for me to give back to this part of New Hampshire and to the people who have helped me along the way. This is not a power trip or an effort to force anything down anybody's throat. Perhaps a trip to my latest complex called Owl's Nest Resort & Golf Club would give you an opportunity to see the level of care, planning and execution I put into my projects. Please call me at 603-759-2510 if you would like to schedule such a visit!

Regards,

Tom Mullen
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Old 07-15-2011, 05:44 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by NHGuy View Post
Tom Mullen has mentioned in two separate posts that a “Wave Fence” would be necessary to protect the mooring field, docks and sail boats from winds from the northeast, north and northwest. Not knowing what a “Wave Fence” was, I searched the Web and found the following. A “Wave Fence”, commercially called a “Wave Brake” is a floating device that is deployed similar to a “swim line”, except that it is approximately 6-8 feet wide and 3-4 feet high (see picture). Reviews of the Wave Brake are mixed; it does reduce wave action, but at the same time it also reduces line of sight from the beach. Especially from a seated position. The manufacture also warns of danger to swimmers. The device is heavy and in rough waves could injury a swimmer. Also there are a number of “pinch points” that could cause injuries to a swimmer trying to hold on to the device.

The "Wave Brake" would be deployed from the beach (near LSP) and run out (north) approximately 150 yards, then west paralal to beach until it hit the Scenic Drive shore.

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NH Guy,

While this is a wave fence, it is in now way similiar to the fence we're suggesting would work at the Sailing Center. Please contact me at 603-759-2510 and I'll arrange to show you the plans so you will have a clear picture of what we are proposing.

Regards

Tom Mullen
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Old 07-15-2011, 05:49 PM   #125
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H
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I share the concern, the "rules" are not very clear. Here is a link to a bit of the history and "rules" for use of State parks. This link in specific to pavilions, but the entire site is worth a read.

http://www.nhstateparks.org/explore/...pavilions.aspx

NH has a strong history of the use of "public lands" for various activities. The whole website is educational. Hunters, campers, hikers, fishing , ski machine etc.. That's a good thing if and only if the people that use the public lands stick to the guidelines and rules of use.

The folks at the sailing club seem to me to have made a good case for approval of the sailing center. As a next door neighbor at LSP, I am concerned that the pavilion could be misused if the rules for it's use where not carefully crafted. That part of their proposal would needs to be watched very carefully.

JMHO
Hello JMHO,

Thanks for being willing to listen to our proposals. We are fully prepare to discuss our plans and our operational program with LSP and to work very hard to come up with a mutually acceptable approach to operations that will satisfy all parties.

Regards,

Tom Mullen
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Old 07-15-2011, 05:58 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by robmac View Post
while I believe that the sailing program is an asset to all who take advantage of it,I must admit I am abit concerned as once you allow private concerns on public land it becomes very difficult to undue.While funds are needed from donations to keep the sailing program alive and growing I still haven't seen why a pavillion is needed. I would love to see my daughter learn to sail if she chooses I would donate for the opportunity,so I guess I'm missing the need for a new structure. If participants are either pay as you go or donating for the program is there really a need to add another burden such as building maintanence to the equation? JMHO,but I think maybe it deserves a look,and by the way if you haven't guessed I think the sailing program is a benefit to the region.
Hello robmac,

The building we're planning to erect would be used in the winter months for storing all the boats and in the summer, it would be used for teaching purposes during inclement weather. We would also be able to hold meetings and social events there occasionally when it isn't being used for specific Sailing Center programs. We would hope to use it as an event pavillion for raising funds to help support the Sailing Center's activities and programs. At all times, great care would be taken to make sure the neighboring properties would not be negatively impacted by any of our programs.

Regards,

Tom Mullen
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Old 07-15-2011, 08:51 PM   #127
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Please be aware that the Sailing Center's plans do not impact the campground in any way other than to possibly enhance the types of water oriented activities that would be available for those people using the campground.

Tom Mullen
How can it not impact the campground? We spend hours at the beach in front of the bath house. If it is full of sail boats that is a big change.
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Old 07-20-2011, 07:49 AM   #128
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http://www.laconiadailysun.com/story...enter-doldrums

It appears from this article that building a sailing center at Ellacoya State (rv & swim but NOT sail) Park is going nowhere fast!


www.squamlakes.org/programs/boating.php is located directly on Rt 3-25 in Holderness, about a ten minute drive up from the big intersection in Meredith, and they just finished a two year construction of a very large, unheated activity building that looks like a great big barn to be used for summer learning programs for kids and adults including sailing. They rent out sailboats to non-members for a half day (for fifty five dollars-no reservations-just show up & sail!), or a day, or you can become a season member and store your sailboat boat or go kayaking.

Squam is a very different lake than Winnipesaukeee. On Winnipesaukee, the shoreline is approximately 99.9% all built out with gigundic garish mcmansions complete with irrigated brite green lawns and $250,000 high-performance boats, while on Squam the shoreline is approximately 99.9% covered with large green trees and just a couple smallish brown and green cabins nestled below those tall pines complete with an oldey 11' 11 1/2" sailboat (& the rudder does not count)!

.....................

New Hampshire has the unique distinction of being the only state, out of all fifty, where their state park system is entirely self-funded by the park's admission fees, and gets no money from the general state fund.

Walk around Ellacoya State Park and it looks like everything was installed, constructed, and designed in about 1965, and has been lovingly maintained by dedicated park employees ever since, because they know there's no money to replace or upgrade anything. That turns out to make for a very nice, 1965 style park experience what with the old style slide, swings, rest room fixtures, building construction, and everything else including the old timey dedicated state employees......and probably a lot of people like it that way. They say.....don't change nothing....just leave Ellacoya the way it is.....which is the same way it was back in 1965!
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Old 07-20-2011, 03:55 PM   #129
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Tha bath house at the RV park was built around 99 and is in fine shape.

This is good news.
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Old 07-20-2011, 05:28 PM   #130
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How can it not impact the campground? We spend hours at the beach in front of the bath house. If it is full of sail boats that is a big change.
Hello Herburban,

If your assumption is that renting an RV site gives you onfettered use of the entire Ellacoya waterfront east of the brook over to the Lake Shore Park fence, and that you shouldn't have to ever share that with people who want to sail, then I probably can't please you. If the Sailnig Center was to be placed at Ellacoya, it would take up about half of the frontage referred to above. Remember, people in the campgroung are supposed to swim on the public beach west of the brook, but we have no intention of raising that as an issue. Also, people aren't supposed to moor boats off the shore without a mooring permit. We plan to have some permitted guest moorings for RV'ers to use off the shore.

Please also remember one other thing -- placing RV's and tents on the Ellacoya land was never one of the activities mentioned in the deed to Ellacoya given to the state. Sailing and teaching sailing were two of the specific activities included in that deed.

The truth is that there's plenty of land for the RV'ers and for the people who want to sail. I suspect the many people coming to use the RV Campground will find the Sailing Center to be an attractive new feature of coming to Ellacoya.

Regards,

Tom Mullen
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Old 07-20-2011, 05:34 PM   #131
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http://www.laconiadailysun.com/story...enter-doldrums

It appears from this article that building a sailing center at Ellacoya State (rv & swim but NOT sail) Park is going nowhere fast!


www.squamlakes.org/programs/boating.php is located directly on Rt 3-25 in Holderness, about a ten minute drive up from the big intersection in Meredith, and they just finished a two year construction of a very large, unheated activity building that looks like a great big barn to be used for summer learning programs for kids and adults including sailing. They rent out sailboats to non-members for a half day (for fifty five dollars-no reservations-just show up & sail!), or a day, or you can become a season member and store your sailboat boat or go kayaking.

Squam is a very different lake than Winnipesaukeee. On Winnipesaukee, the shoreline is approximately 99.9% all built out with gigundic garish mcmansions complete with irrigated brite green lawns and $250,000 high-performance boats, while on Squam the shoreline is approximately 99.9% covered with large green trees and just a couple smallish brown and green cabins nestled below those tall pines complete with an oldey 11' 11 1/2" sailboat (& the rudder does not count)!

.....................

New Hampshire has the unique distinction of being the only state, out of all fifty, where their state park system is entirely self-funded by the park's admission fees, and gets no money from the general state fund.

Walk around Ellacoya State Park and it looks like everything was installed, constructed, and designed in about 1965, and has been lovingly maintained by dedicated park employees ever since, because they know there's no money to replace or upgrade anything. That turns out to make for a very nice, 1965 style park experience what with the old style slide, swings, rest room fixtures, building construction, and everything else including the old timey dedicated state employees......and probably a lot of people like it that way. They say.....don't change nothing....just leave Ellacoya the way it is.....which is the same way it was back in 1965!
Greetings Fatlazyless,

Who was it that once said, "The rumors of my passing have been greatly exaggerated." By the way, one of the reasons we like Ellacoya is because of its laid back flavor. The Sailing Center plans to not change that feeling at all.

Regards,

Tom Mullen
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Old 07-21-2011, 04:09 AM   #132
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I camp at Ellacoya every year for 12 days as do a lot of my friends. We do not want to loose our park for a sailing club..We pay close to $50 a night for a quiet beach and a place for our boat, not to park in a parking lot and a noisy beach. Ellacoya is one of the most profitable state parks in NH. And we all spend alot while we are here. We just heard about this last week while we were there and are totally against it. There is plenty of land for sale around the lake they can buy it for market price instead of getting a deal from the state for their own use.
That $50 should entitle you to the daytime use of one of their sailboats—but first, one must know how to sail.

One of the trickier parts of sailing is the proper deployment of the centerboard, or "controlling leeward drift". Even facing into the prevailing winds, a sandy bottom will safely assist in acquiring a proficiency needed to control the direction of every kind of boat.

(That is, Ellacoya's sandy bottom )
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Old 07-21-2011, 07:56 AM   #133
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That $50 should entitle you to the daytime use of one of their sailboats—but first, one must know how to sail.

One of the trickier parts of sailing is the proper deployment of the centerboard, or "controlling leeward drift". Even facing into the prevailing winds, a sandy bottom will safely assist in acquiring a proficiency needed to control the direction of every kind of boat.

(That is, Ellacoya's sandy bottom )
Hello Herburban,

There are a few realities that need to be aired here:

1. There is a lot of unused space at Ellacoya on the side where the RV park is located. By and large, that beach is empty most of the time. I have been observing that beach almost every day this summer and there's almost no one using it on a regular basis.
2. It's good that not too many people use that beach because it's not patrolled or covered by lifeguards like the beach on the western side of the park. In fact, there's a bridge over the brook so the campers can easily get to the patrolled beach which is where the RV'ers are supposed to go for beach access.
3. While it's permissable to launch boats at Ellacoya, it's not permissable under state law to leave a boat anchored there overnight without the written permission of the landowner. Launching boats where people are also swimming is an extremely dangerous activity and Ellacoya should be enforcing its own rules. If our Sailing Center gets built at Ellacoya, we will have some guest moorings for the RV'ers to use.
4. The last I knew, Ellacoya belonged to the State of New Hampshire, not specifically to the people who camp there. Furthermore, I would think the RV'ers would not want push to come to shove as sailing and teaching sailing are two of the activities that are specifically referred to as desired uses of Ellacoya in the deed conveying Ellacoya to the State. Nowhere in that deed is there a reference to an RV Park or even camping as uses permitted by that deed. The point here is that Ellacoya is a resource that should be accessible by and to as many citizens of the State of New Hampshire as possible in a fashion that does not measureably diminish the quality of the experience. I can assure you that sailors using the park will not object to the presence of the RV'ers. Why shouldn't it work the other way around as well?

There are dozens of sailing centers all around the country and in every location where they exist, they have enriched the lives of the residents of those areas in significant and measureable ways. These facilities are not clubs, they are all open to the public regardless of the ability to pay. Children and adults, both disabled and able bodied, are participating in a clean and green sport and pastime that's gentle on the pocketbook and on the environment. Please tell me what's wrong with this picture!!!

Regards,

Tom Mullen
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Old 07-22-2011, 06:03 AM   #134
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Today's July 22 LaDaSun has an interview on the community sailing that's proposed for Ellacoya. Any chance someone can post the article into this thread?

Say, if Ellacoya is a total no-go for a community sailing location, then how's about renting out a 99-year lease down at the totally unoccupied and unused Camp Monotomy down on Meredith Neck, close to Buoy 3. It is a former girl scout camp that is owned by the Girl Scouts in Massachusetts, and the camp has been closed for about eight years now. Absolutely nothing is happening at Camp Monotomy and they have a beautifull large piece of land with a huge waterfront that is home to one black bear and no one else.

As a property tax exempt former girl scout camp owned by the Girl Scouts, maybe they could use some rental income coming from a non-profit community sailing association just to help them cover their non-taxes? Maybe you want to jump on this opportunity before the Lakes Region Conservation Trust buys it and it becomes a wilderness in perpituity, that gets used by no one except the black bear that's already there?

In case anyone was wondering, the Squam community sailing program, waterfront and building(s) are on land that was formerly a traditional style motel on Rt 3-25 in Holderness which was purchased by the Squam Lakes Assoc in about the year 2000, and it seems to get a lot of use and now has a great big barn building named the Fisher Family Activities Barn. www.squamlakes.org/programs/boating.php
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Old 07-22-2011, 11:28 AM   #135
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http://www.laconiadailysun.com/story...s-foul-weather

and this Winnipesaukee Forum gets a mention!
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Old 07-22-2011, 01:17 PM   #136
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Thanks FLL. Read the paragraph I pasted in and you can understand what is wrong with government. Make a decision Mr Bald, one way or the other. It is your job to start or stop the process you describe.

Bald stressed that the process for handling such requests is prolonged and complex. First, he, as the commissioner, must approve the proposal, which must subsequently be endorsed by the Council on Resources and Development, composed of the heads of 13 state agencies, and the Long Range Capital Planning and Utilization Committee of the Legislature. He indicated that public meetings would likely be held at each step of the process. Finally, the proposal would require a vote of the Governor and Executive Council.

Bald said that he did not expect to making a decision on the proposal in the near future.
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Old 07-27-2011, 07:10 AM   #137
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NH Guy,

While this is a wave fence, it is in now way similiar to the fence we're suggesting would work at the Sailing Center. Please contact me at 603-759-2510 and I'll arrange to show you the plans so you will have a clear picture of what we are proposing.

Regards

Tom Mullen
Mr. Mullen,
I believe it would be more informative if you posted your "Wave Fence" proposal for all Forum Members to see. That way everyone will have a clear picture of what you are proposing.

Thanks in Advance
NH Guy
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Old 07-30-2011, 12:51 PM   #138
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Today's July 22 LaDaSun has an interview on the community sailing that's proposed for Ellacoya. Any chance someone can post the article into this thread?

Say, if Ellacoya is a total no-go for a community sailing location, then how's about renting out a 99-year lease down at the totally unoccupied and unused Camp Monotomy down on Meredith Neck, close to Buoy 3. It is a former girl scout camp that is owned by the Girl Scouts in Massachusetts, and the camp has been closed for about eight years now. Absolutely nothing is happening at Camp Monotomy and they have a beautifull large piece of land with a huge waterfront that is home to one black bear and no one else.

As a property tax exempt former girl scout camp owned by the Girl Scouts, maybe they could use some rental income coming from a non-profit community sailing association just to help them cover their non-taxes? Maybe you want to jump on this opportunity before the Lakes Region Conservation Trust buys it and it becomes a wilderness in perpituity, that gets used by no one except the black bear that's already there?

In case anyone was wondering, the Squam community sailing program, waterfront and building(s) are on land that was formerly a traditional style motel on Rt 3-25 in Holderness which was purchased by the Squam Lakes Assoc in about the year 2000, and it seems to get a lot of use and now has a great big barn building named the Fisher Family Activities Barn. www.squamlakes.org/programs/boating.php
Hello fatlazyless,

Please see response to your next posting.

Tom Mullen
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Old 07-30-2011, 01:43 PM   #139
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Today's July 22 LaDaSun has an interview on the community sailing that's proposed for Ellacoya. Any chance someone can post the article into this thread?

Say, if Ellacoya is a total no-go for a community sailing location, then how's about renting out a 99-year lease down at the totally unoccupied and unused Camp Monotomy down on Meredith Neck, close to Buoy 3. It is a former girl scout camp that is owned by the Girl Scouts in Massachusetts, and the camp has been closed for about eight years now. Absolutely nothing is happening at Camp Monotomy and they have a beautifull large piece of land with a huge waterfront that is home to one black bear and no one else.

As a property tax exempt former girl scout camp owned by the Girl Scouts, maybe they could use some rental income coming from a non-profit community sailing association just to help them cover their non-taxes? Maybe you want to jump on this opportunity before the Lakes Region Conservation Trust buys it and it becomes a wilderness in perpituity, that gets used by no one except the black bear that's already there?

In case anyone was wondering, the Squam community sailing program, waterfront and building(s) are on land that was formerly a traditional style motel on Rt 3-25 in Holderness which was purchased by the Squam Lakes Assoc in about the year 2000, and it seems to get a lot of use and now has a great big barn building named the Fisher Family Activities Barn. www.squamlakes.org/programs/boating.php
Hello Fatlazyless,

The facility on Squam is doing a great job servicing that lake and the Holderness area. It is a small program taking care of local kids and they do some adult sailing instructions as well. When we get established, we will interface with them in a variety of ways designed to enrich both programs. The area we will be reaching out to is all the residents of central New Hampshire and to the visitors that come regularly to the Lakes Region. We will also be offering an Adaptive Sailing Program in conjunction with the NH Easter Seals Society and the folks that operate the Adaptive Skiing Program at Gunstock Ski Area. Ellacoya is perfectly positioned geographically for folks from our service area to reach us easily and quickly.

Regards,

Tom Mullen
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Old 07-30-2011, 02:07 PM   #140
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Mr. Mullen,
I believe it would be more informative if you posted your "Wave Fence" proposal for all Forum Members to see. That way everyone will have a clear picture of what you are proposing.

Thanks in Advance
NH Guy
NHGuy,

Sorry, I don't have our plan in a form that I can post on this site. Let me try to describe what we hope to do. Our primary adversary is the northwest wind and the swells that travel a pretty long fetch from Belknap Point and Lockes Island down to Ellacoya. Our first line of defense about 75 to 100 feet out from and pretty much parallel to the shore will be a boulder breakwater which will pretty much knock down the waves and leave the water behind that breakwater very calm. We plan two docks coming out toward the break water, one running all the way to the breakwater then turning and running parallel to and suspended from the breakwater. The second dock will run out from the shore about fifty feet where it will also turn and run parallel to the shore and the breakwater.

Both docks will be open underneath allowing for water flow back and forth along the shore. Suspended down from both docks will be boards not unlike ballisters on a staircase. The boards will be about five inches apart and they will be suspended in the water deeply enough to knock the tops off waves that come past or around the breakwater. These boards coupled with the breakwater make up what you refer to as a wave fence.

The docks being open underneath and the wave fencing under the docks allowing sand laden water to flow back and forth across the waterfront of Ellacoya and Lake Shore Park are designed to address any and all concerns that Lake Shore Residents have voiced about sand migration. Both Lake Shore Park and our Sailing Center, as well as DRED's Division of Parks and Recreation want to feel comfortable that what the LWSA is doing will not cause a deterioration of either property's beach areas. I will try to get our plans put into a PDF format so they can be sent out to all parties interested in what we propose to do in that location.

Regards,

Tom Mullen
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Old 07-30-2011, 02:58 PM   #141
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Thanks FLL. Read the paragraph I pasted in and you can understand what is wrong with government. Make a decision Mr Bald, one way or the other. It is your job to start or stop the process you describe.

Bald stressed that the process for handling such requests is prolonged and complex. First, he, as the commissioner, must approve the proposal, which must subsequently be endorsed by the Council on Resources and Development, composed of the heads of 13 state agencies, and the Long Range Capital Planning and Utilization Committee of the Legislature. He indicated that public meetings would likely be held at each step of the process. Finally, the proposal would require a vote of the Governor and Executive Council.

Bald said that he did not expect to making a decision on the proposal in the near future.
Hello Vitabene,

Commissioner Bald is, in fact, a fair distance away from making a decision on this project. Please let there be no understanding, however, about one very important matter. The LWSA and I have sought and received the approval of DRED's staff people at the Parks and Recreation Division of DRED for every single step we have taken thus far on this project. We have moved forward together DRED's staff with the full knowledge that there is a long and arduous approval process ahead of us with an outcome that is by no means certain.

We are aware of every step of the approval process referred to by Commisioner Bald in your post and there are other approvals that are outside of his direct areas of responsibility that we will need to obtain as well. We will need a green light from the Department of Environmental Services (DES) for our waterfront development and to tie into the Winnipesaukee Sewer Interceptor. We must go through Gilford's entire approval process that will include its Planning Board and its Board of Selectmen. We will need to formally meet with the Gunstock Area Commission and the Belknap County Commissioners. And, we will need an approval from the Federal Bureau of Outdoor Land Management since Federal funds were used to create Ellacoya.

Please be aware that we have met informally with all of these groups, commissions, boards and agencies already, other than the Feds, to introduce our project and to get an idea of what things they all might like to see us do or not do going forward. We have been given either green or flashing yellow lights from all of these entities and where the lights have been yellow, we have learned what their concerns are and we have made or are in the process of making modifications to our plans that we feel will turn the one or two yellow lights to green when we next go before them for a final review or approval.

This process is not new to me. While the process might seem daunting to some, I deal with the need to obtain town, state and at times, Federal agency approvals day in and day out. I am patient and I generally get the approvals my projects need because I don't cut corners and I painstakingly research the criteria needed to get approvals before presenting final plans. I either include what has been requested up front by the parties reviewing the plans or I provide a logical reason for deviating from what has been suggested and I present viable options for those deviations. I am fully aware that we may be at this for several years, but I am confident we have made the right decision in choosing the Ellacoya site.

We will make good and compatible neighbors for Lake Shore Park and for the folks that have been enjoying RV'ing at Ellacoya for many years. We will add to the offering that is Lake Shore Park and Ellacoya in ways that the residents and RV'ers can't begin to appreciate until we are in place and functioning. We will respect the fact they have been there before us and we will run our operation in a manner that will defer to the fact they have been on the block a lot longer than we have and that we need to cognizant of this reality.

There will need to be some level of adaptation to our presence, but it won't alter the enjoyment of Ellacoya and I believe we will enhance the Ellacoya experience in meaningful and measureable ways that won't become totally clear until our facility is in place and functioning. Once this happens, Lake Shore Park and the RV'ers will be singing our praises and they'll be our best customers.

I'm available to meet with folks one on one or in a group to discuss our program. I have met with folks at Lake Shore Park a number of times and while we haven't solved every issue on their minds, I feel we're making progress. I hope they agree!

Regards,

Tom Mullen
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Old 08-13-2011, 10:02 PM   #142
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I am personally a boater and enjoy Lake Winnie every summer weekend on my boat. With that said, my parents come to visit the lake 3-4 weekends per summer and stay at Ellacoya. For those weekends I also enjoy the RV park.

Ellacoya State Park is probably the nicest state owned RV park in NH. Its definitely the nicest on Winnie... Why would we want to change that?

Most of this thread (with the exception of a few posts) is about boating, boating, boating... As a boater myself it is easy to think that way. But as a boater, I have the whole entire lake to enjoy. 72 square miles to be exact. Why can't we give the hundreds perhaps thousands of RVers in the state of NH alone, 23 acres or 600 feet of shorefront?

How much shorefront land will be disrupted for this project? How many shorefront trees will be taken down? Is this project exempt from the shore land protection laws which disallow removing trees and brush so many feet from the shoreline?

I am a Die Hard Lake Winnie boater and I am AGAINST this project. Let's preserve the natural beauty of the nicest RV park on the lake and let RVers keep their tiny portion of Lake Winnie.
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Old 08-14-2011, 09:09 AM   #143
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I am personally a boater and enjoy Lake Winnie every summer weekend on my boat. With that said, my parents come to visit the lake 3-4 weekends per summer and stay at Ellacoya. For those weekends I also enjoy the RV park.

Ellacoya State Park is probably the nicest state owned RV park in NH. Its definitely the nicest on Winnie... Why would we want to change that?

Most of this thread (with the exception of a few posts) is about boating, boating, boating... As a boater myself it is easy to think that way. But as a boater, I have the whole entire lake to enjoy. 72 square miles to be exact. Why can't we give the hundreds perhaps thousands of RVers in the state of NH alone, 23 acres or 600 feet of shorefront?

How much shorefront land will be disrupted for this project? How many shorefront trees will be taken down? Is this project exempt from the shore land protection laws which disallow removing trees and brush so many feet from the shoreline?

I am a Die Hard Lake Winnie boater and I am AGAINST this project. Let's preserve the natural beauty of the nicest RV park on the lake and let RVers keep their tiny portion of Lake Winnie.
Good Morning Never Satisfied,

It appears that your handle, Never Satisfied, is a misnomer, at least in the context of Ellacoya. You are obviously more than satisfied about the status quo at that location. We are, of course, all entitled to our opinions, but there are a few facts I need to share with you.

First of all, the Deed of Gift that conveyed Ellacoya to the State of NH was very specific about the activities that were to be accommodated at that property and there are about fifteen different types of outdoor programs that were mentioned including, sailing and sailing instruction. No where in that deed is there any mention of camping or RV'ing. That having been said, there's plenty of room at Ellacoya for the RV'ers to do their thing and for a sailing center to exist in a manner that will allow the two uses to compement one another. Furthermore, we have no intention of seeking for the terms of the deed to be enforced. We rather like the notion that campers might be an audience and a source of people for some of our activities.

A sailing center will enhance the RV'ers experience, both children and adults. We would occupy a very small corner of the facility and our uses would take up only 200 feet of the entire lake frontage. Our programs will be open to the public, including the folks in the campground adding in the process, a whole new dimension to the Ellacoya experience. We intend to upgrade the public lauching facility so that vehicles will no longer dig up the beach when they get stuck trying to launch boats.

The RV Park is really busy only about two months out of the year. Our LWSA Sailing Center will be active for at least six months every year and a small portion of the facility will be heated for our staff to occupy offices and for our Board to have meetings during the winter.

We will be subject to the Shoreland Protection Zone. The stand of oaks at Ellacoya are magnificent and we have no intention of cutting any of those trees within the fifty foot setback zone. We wish to capitalize on the beauty of Ellacoya, not to damage it.

Our programs will revolve mostly around children and the participants in our Adaptive Sailing Program. We will introduce the beauty and the thrills of sailing to profoundly handicapped children and adults, including particpants in the Wounded Warrior Project - badly injured Vets coming back from service overseas. We will also provide programs for adults who wish to learn how to sail. Don't you feel these are worthwhile and appropriate activities to share a small portion of Ellacoya with?

Never Satisfied, our new Sailing Center is an appropriate and viable use for Ellacoya. You should be willing to share a small section of Ellacoya with us. It is, after all, a publicly owned property that should be available for the widest possible types of public uses. You should be encouraging our presence at Ellacoya instead of conjuring up images that somehow we will not be a pleasant addition to the Ellacoya scene.

Regards,

Tom Mullen, President
Lake Winnipesaukee Sailing Association
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Old 08-14-2011, 09:31 AM   #144
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Say, the Ellacoya RV Campground costs $47/night to rent a spot that comes with hook-ups, and rv-ers can always chose to go to one of the 23 different campgrounds in the White Mountain National Forest for $16-20/night without any hook-ups.

The Ellecoya RV Campground occupies a large field type area that is almost totally treeless except for the beautifull large pin oak trees http://www.earlyforest.com/2008/09/p...-oak-tree.html which are close to the natural sandy beach waterfront, and the rv campground area which is very very flat and very level. If I had my druthers.....what an ideal location for tennis; like maybe ten rubberized asphalt, all-season tennis courts, two with lights, and a small tennis maintenance building with a covered picnic table area. Introducing the Ellacoya State Tennis Courts...........a little drum roll here......budda-bing......for some nice new, blue and green rubberized asphalt, very low maintenance tennis courts! Let's lose the rv campground and get healthy running around those new tennis courts and smacking a tennis ball with a tennis racquet. Tennis is a sport you can play till you are 99 years old!

Tennis and sailing go together very well as a complimentary sport with skiing, as in the nearby Gunstock Ski Area! RVer's need to head north for 45-minutes up to those 23 federal WMNF campgrounds that go for just $16 or 20/night. $47 to stay overnight at Ellacoya State RV Park.....that seems very expensive to me!
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Old 08-14-2011, 10:34 AM   #145
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Say, the Ellacoya RV Campground costs $47/night to rent a spot that comes with hook-ups, and rv-ers can always chose to go to one of the 23 different campgrounds in the White Mountain National Forest for $16-20/night without any hook-ups.

The Ellecoya RV Campground occupies a large field type area that is almost totally treeless except for the beautifull large pin oak trees http://www.earlyforest.com/2008/09/p...-oak-tree.html which are close to the natural sandy beach waterfront, and the rv campground area which is very very flat and very level. If I had my druthers.....what an ideal location for tennis; like maybe ten rubberized asphalt, all-season tennis courts, two with lights, and a small tennis maintenance building with a covered picnic table area. Introducing the Ellacoya State Tennis Courts...........a little drum roll here......budda-bing......for some nice new, blue and green rubberized asphalt, very low maintenance tennis courts! Let's lose the rv campground and get healthy running around those new tennis courts and smacking a tennis ball with a tennis racquet. Tennis is a sport you can play till you are 99 years old!

Tennis and sailing go together very well as a complimentary sport with skiing, as in the nearby Gunstock Ski Area! RVer's need to head north for 45-minutes up to those 23 federal WMNF campgrounds that go for just $16 or 20/night. $47 to stay overnight at Ellacoya State RV Park.....that seems very expensive to me!
Greetings,

Actually, I was thinking a casino at Ellacoya would be even better than tennis courts. OUCH! My tongue has created a permanent hole in the inside lining of my cheek!

Regards,

Tom
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Old 08-14-2011, 10:52 AM   #146
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Hi Tom;

I am curious... If the Deed of Gift that conveyed Ellacoya to the State of NH did not include camping and RV's, how was the RV park allowed to go in there in the first place???

Sounds like the land may finally get what the grantor had originally intended for its use!

Good luck with your project! Sounds like a wonderful and worthwhile addition to the lake!

Dan
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Old 08-14-2011, 02:02 PM   #147
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Hi Tom;

I am curious... If the Deed of Gift that conveyed Ellacoya to the State of NH did not include camping and RV's, how was the RV park allowed to go in there in the first place???

Sounds like the land may finally get what the grantor had originally intended for its use!

Good luck with your project! Sounds like a wonderful and worthwhile addition to the lake!

Dan
Hello Dan,

Thanks for your kind thoughts. The reality is that there's more than enough room for the camping to remain there and for our sailing center to be there as well. The area where we would be is in all actuality, quite under utilized.

The launching ramp is in a state of disrepair and vehicles regularly get stuck in the beach sand in the process of launching boats. The ramp is not adequately patrolled by Ellacoya personnel and the rules of usage and State of NH regulations are constantly being ignored.

I feel certain that the State will recognize what a tremendous asset we're offering to create for the use of the public. At no cost to the State or to the public, we will be creating an opportunity for people to gain controlled access to the lake in a thoroughly green and sustainable fashion including the folks who are RV'ing in the campground. What's not to like about that!

Regards,

Tom Mullen
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Old 08-15-2011, 08:30 AM   #148
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Good Morning Never Satisfied,
It appears that your handle, Never Satisfied, is a misnomer, at least in the context of Ellacoya. You are obviously more than satisfied about the status quo at that location. We are, of course, all entitled to our opinions, but there are a few facts I need to share with you.
I am so happy you got a kick out of my screen name. It defines my personality in regards to my boat. It has absolutely nothing to do with Ellacoya State Park.

You keep mentioning the opportunity for kids.... It’s all about the kids..... The fact is that most kids could care less about a banquet facility. Most young children couldn’t even define banquet. If this was REALLY about the "kids" the proposal would be much less than a banquet facility, offices for the board, breakwater, docks and a mooring field. If you put a kid in a boat and teach them how to sail, they will have a GREAT time regardless of the infrastructure around it.

Please don't get me wrong, this all seems great. Does it really have to exist on state land??? How about you take over the abandoned Burger King on Paugus bay? This would be win/win in my mind. You would make good use of a nice piece of land that is no longer in use and the RVers can continue to enjoy their park.

FLL & Mr. Mullen: Tennis courts and a Casino?????? Seriously????? Although I know these remarks are facetious, it is these remarks that just show your underlying character and how much regard you have for everyone besides yourselves.
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Old 08-15-2011, 10:06 AM   #149
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FLL & Mr. Mullen: Tennis courts and a Casino?????? Seriously????? Although I know these remarks are facetious, it is these remarks that just show your underlying character and how much regard you have for everyone besides yourselves.
Lake Winnipesaukee does not have a free-to-use state boat launch and parking facility while Lakes Newfound, Winnisquam, Squam, and Sunapee(under construction ?) all do. Their construction was paid with NH boat registration fees, are very well designed, and get a lot of use by trailer-boaters. To get a parking spot, it's probably a good idea to get to one early.

In my opinion, the Ellacoya RV Park which co-exists with the Ellacoya State Beach on the same property that's geographically divided by the Poor Farm Brook would be an excellent location on Lake Winnipesaukee to also have both a state boat launch and a community sailing program.
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Old 08-15-2011, 10:26 AM   #150
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Lake Winnipesaukee does not have a free-to-use state boat launch and parking facility while Lakes Newfound, Winnisquam, Squam, and Sunapee(under construction) all do. Their construction was paid with NH boat registration fees, are very very well designed, and as mentioned, free to use.

In my opinion, the Ellacoya RV Park which co-exists with the Ellacoya State Beach on the same property would be an incredibly excellent spot to also have both a state boat launch and a community sailing program.
Very well said and I definitely agree. The only thing I disagree with (my own opinion) is the size of this project and natural beauty/views that I believe it will disrupt (again, my own opinion). I think a free to use boat ramp, sailing program and RV park can all co-exist without a banquet facility, offices, elaborate docking, mooring field and a breakwater.
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Old 08-15-2011, 11:02 AM   #151
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Suggest you go take a look at www.squamlakes.org/ and www.squamlakes.org/support/youthactivitybarn.php and see what they got going for a community sailing program!

The Squam Lakes state boat launch is located on the 1/8 mile long Squam River that connects Big and Little Squam, and is about two miles across the water from the sailing program facility pictured in the above websites. That large building (not the new activities barn) in www.squamlakes.org/ used to be a Rt 3 motel, until about the year 2000 when it and the LAND was purchased by the Squam Lakes Assoc.
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Old 08-16-2011, 05:46 AM   #152
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Default Why Ellacoya?

Please don't get me wrong, this all seems great. Does it really have to exist on state land??? How about you take over the abandoned Burger King on Paugus bay? This would be win/win in my mind. You would make good use of a nice piece of land that is no longer in use and the RVers can continue to enjoy their park.


Free rent?
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Old 08-16-2011, 07:35 AM   #153
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Another possible spot is the boat launch area at Ames' Farm Inn that's close to the Gilford-Alton town line. That would be a great spot for the state boat launch area, and I believe there was, or is a listing somewhere that had a 49% interest in the Ames' Farm Inn up for sale although I could not find a link to that listing. Instead of selling off a 49% interest, maybe the Div of Recreation & Parks could write a big fat, NH boat registration fees check to purchase the subdivided waterfront section down at Ames' that includes the boat launch area that would be separated from the inn building at Ames'? What a plan......think about it.... the Ames' Farm pancake breakfast and state boat launch-trailer boaters could co-exist in happy harmony, eating pancakes, backing boats down the ramps, and shooting the breeze at that beautiful, friendly location for another hundred years!

What better place for a state boat launch since that used to be the de facto "state" boat launch in actual use anyway, plus the NH Fish & Game used to set up a fish inspection station and take time to weigh and inspect the fish as the competition bass boats returned with their catch.

And a great big "Merry Christmas to you buddy!" to their nearby, attorney neighbor who lawyered out the close-down at Ames' Farm due to a land use - zoning issue.....ho-ho-ho! ........should this plan ever go through! .....which it most likely will definitely NOT......because the money is NOT there to spend by the state.....and the state already has the under-utilized, 65-acre Ellacoya property.

Maybe this is now incorrect, but according to www.nhstateparks.com/ellacoya.html the state beach is open full time from June 14 to Sept 1, 2008, and it does not really say what the operation dates are for the RV Park. Thinking about a free-to-use, state boat launch and community sailing program, the months of May, June, September and October are doable which would make Ellacoya usable for a lot longer than is currently being done. It is the one and only NH State public park on all of Lake Winnipesaukee, the only one(!), so having it available and usable for both launching boats and community sail boating for the additional months of May, June, September and October makes some good sense to me!
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Old 08-16-2011, 07:37 AM   #154
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Please don't get me wrong, this all seems great. Does it really have to exist on state land??? How about you take over the abandoned Burger King on Paugus bay? This would be win/win in my mind. You would make good use of a nice piece of land that is no longer in use and the RVers can continue to enjoy their park.


Free rent?
It is not the RVer's Park!!
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Old 08-16-2011, 08:20 AM   #155
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It is not the RVer's Park!!
Oh yes, it is the rv-er's park! Regardless that the original deed did not include rv use, it is indeed the rv-er's park because the water-sewerage-electricity rv-hookups, rv lot layout, and continual use and administration for maybe thirty years by the state all add up to make it a recreational vehicle park.

What's at issue is: does the state want to add a boat launch and community sailing program to co-exist with the existing rv park and swimming beach area? Is it doable and workable and usable, and is it a good additional public use to the Ellacoya State Beach & RV Park?

www.nhstateparks.com/ellacoya.html

............

As far as the State of NH setting out to purchase some waterfront Winnipesaukee property for a state boat launch or a community sailing program; that sure seems like a very long shot. In 1997, the state had the opportunity to purchase the Camp Alton property for just one million dollars and it said no to that. In about 2001, the state had the opportunity to purchase 130-acre Timber Island for about 1.5 million and it said no to that.

As far as I know, both Ellacoya State Beach & RV Park in Gilford on Lake Winnipesaukee, and Whittemore State Beach & Park on Newfound Lake in Bristol were both gifted to the state by some very generous private families.

As big as Lake Winnipesaukee is: 71 square miles in size and with 288 miles of shore front, the 65.5-acre Ellacoya property is the only state owned waterfront park of its' kind on the whole lake.

Just for the heck of it, to see what's nearby over in Maine about one hour away, suggest you google "Lake Sebago State Park Maine" to see what the State of Maine has to offer up for a big lake, state park beach-rv-swim-boat-hike experience.
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Old 08-17-2011, 07:00 AM   #156
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Default Rvs = $$$

The RV park brings in a profit for the state. It's one of the most profitable parks in the state of NH. Not to mention the money we spend at local businesses. More people would use it if they allowed dogs. But that is another can of worms.
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Old 08-17-2011, 07:15 AM   #157
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The RV park brings in a profit for the state. It's one of the most profitable parks in the state of NH. Not to mention the money we spend at local businesses. More people would use it if they allowed dogs. But that is another can of worms.
I guess I should have finished my statement. Like all resources owned by NH, it does not belong to any one group. It is being used in part by RVs, but it certainly is not exclusively for the use of RVs and their owners.

It is a shared resource that is owned by all of the residents of NH, no different than the Lake itself.

FLL, why don't you donate your property to Winni Sailing. You will get that tax albatross off your back while helping to teach our young people to sail We.could also have a nice public boat ramp.
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Old 08-17-2011, 07:33 AM   #158
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Default The party of "NO"!

With all five governor's council positions, plus the majority of the state senate and house of reps being Republican, it's unlikely that anything will happen anytime soon. The Republican's always seem to find a reason why public projects don't get built, and in NH state park's case why the asphalt roof shingles do not get replaced or building exteriors get repainted.

NH is the one and only state where the state parks and recreation department is totally self funded by admission receipts, and gets no money from the general state fund.

Go take a walk around the Ellacoya State Park, on both sides of the brook, and it is like walking back into 1965. All the construction and recreation fixtures like slides, swings and seasonal buildings look like the maintenance dept has been lovingly maintaining them since 1965 because they know there's very little money for maintenance and repairs.

"Gotta luv that Laconia Trustworthy Hardware, like Moe came up with a donated gallon of dark brown stain so's we can at least start some on the fence out front!"
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Old 08-21-2011, 12:06 PM   #159
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Thumbs down PLEASE NOT Ellacoya!!!

Sounds like a GREAT idea, but what an unthinkable thing to do the one of the nicest public places on Winnipesaukee.

Anywhere but there,,,

There must be an easy dozen better places then ruining Ellacoya.

And as a day boater on Winnipesaukee who has suffered considerably with the loss of access to the Ames Farm ramp, I am the first to say the state owes us all (yes including us non-residents who actually register our boats in NH!) a decent ramp with a reasonably sufficient parking (like more than 10 -20), but with that said I would NEVER want it at Ellacoya. Its just too pristine to even consider such an high impact change.

I am very surprised to think anyone would want to see this beautiful place turned upside down with the addition of all that is being discussed.

This is but one more example of how Winnipesauke continues to evolve and not for the better. Winnipesaukee gets speed limits, bans on switchable exhaust, restrictions on how many skiers/tubes you can tow, Ames Farm boat ramp gets shut down and little is done to save it, but bulldoze part of Ellacoya for a private sailing school and club/entertainment facility and it gets a big thumbs up,,, Not sure what to even make of this,,,

I’ll say again, its not the Winnipesaukee I spent summers on as a kid, and I don’t see these changes and positive.

I say build your sailing school and entertainment facility with all the blessings and endorsement I can muster, but not at Ellacoya!
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Old 08-21-2011, 02:36 PM   #160
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I suggest to build the community sailing program and state boat ramp in the Camp Monotomy unused girl scout camp that's way down Meredith Neck and close to the south end of Bear Island. It is a large wilderness, totally tree'd in area with a large undeveloped waterfront and a super-duper spot for a sailing program/boat ramp.

Camp Monotomy is owned by the Girl Scouts of Massachusetts so their setting up a 99-year lease for a community sailing program and boat launch could be a big money-maker to the mission of the girl scouts since no one seems to be using Camp Monotomy, anymore. After 99-years, the girl scouts can always turn it back into a traditional girl scout camp, and everybody will have a win-win-win!

http://www.ledgertranscript.com/arti...-camp-to-close

www.lwhs.us/camps/menotomy/menotomy.htm

http://www.cabinet.com/cabinetcabine...-to-close.html
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Old 08-22-2011, 06:30 AM   #161
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FLL, I tip my hat to you sir as unlike my rant, your post suggests a solution and what may well be a good one.

Someone else recommended the old Burger King site which I'm sure is equaly as good, but is most likely a very costly solution, so I can see where that might be a problem for someone looking for free land.

Again, I think the school/entertainment facility/boat ramp is a great idea, I just think the location is an injustice to everyone, EVERYONE!

I also have some concern/question about the proposed ramp. I dont see that happening without great expense from the extensive dredging required, and should it actually happen, will there really be public access and sufficient parking? My guess is that it ends up being accessible only to the school and to a very select few,,, I can't help but feel some are reading way too much into this talk of a public access ramp, has the project sponsor actually come out and said exactly what the goals of the proposed ramp are and made it clear that is a key element of the plan (to provide a public access ramp and parking) or is that just idea just being allowed to grow in hopes that more folks will sign up to support this plan???

Either way I hope everyone who is currently in support of this project will take a few minutes and actually go to Ellacoya and walk the area in question and then come back and say they want to bulldoze this area and add buildings, and docks, and moorings, and extensive parking, etc, etc, etc,,,

I would be even more surprised if everyone would still support this plan if they actually got out and walked the area.
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Old 08-22-2011, 09:21 AM   #162
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Helloooo....calling all Lake Winnipesaukee waterfront property owners......... including the Town of Gilford.... and their lengthy 1100' long Gilford Town Beach located on Saunder's Bay: Is there anyone who will kindly donate their beautifull waterfront property to the State of New Hampshire for use as a state boat launch and home to a community sailing program? It's been done before; as far as I know, both Ellacoya on Winnipesaukee and Wellington State Park on Newfound were donated. It would probably be a very rare event for the State of NH to go out and actually pay money for a new state park facility since they are very challenged to maintain the asphalt roof shingles and exterior paint on the state park buildings they already have.

Maybe www.gilfordnh.org could volunteer the last 300', of their huge 1100' town beach, over on its' north end that is closer to www.silversands.com marina, since that end is usually pretty quiet and gets a lot less use? Could be a good spot as it geographically central on the lake, and very close to the existing www.lwsa.org location at www.faysboatyard.com. Say, isn't it closer to the Lake Winnipesaukee Sailing Assoc home port at Fay's than the proposed new home for community sailing at www.nhstateparks.com/ellacoya.html. You know it is much much closer!

.........

I have no clue as to whether the Town of Gilford's ice skating arena, which is directly across from Fay's Boat Yard on Varney Point Rd gets any use? Does it get any use? Do children or adults use it for hockey, figure, synchronized, or recreational ice skating, or for broom ball? Anybody know?

It is semi-enclosed with a shed style roof overhead and has no mechanical ice refrigeration and depends on cold natural temperatures to freeze the ice. Does it have a Zamboni? There is a new indoor ice arena that is refrigerated, heated, and Muzaked, all at the same time, over at Plymouth State University in Plymouth, Rt 93-Exit 25, which opened last November, 2010, and it cost approximately 14-million dollars to construct this new ice arena building. So, maybe Gilford has decided to bus their hockey team over to the new PSU rink in Plymouth....I don't know? Another new indoor refrigerated ice arena is planned for the New Hampton private school in New Hampton, close to Exit 23, so that's another skating venue that is maybe now under construction(?).

It's certainly no secret that a NH State boat launch facility would compete with marina's like Fay's Boat Yard who charge to launch boats and also pay very hefty property taxes.

Here's a thought; tear down the Town of Gilford Ice Skating Arena that occupies three acres on Varney Point Rd, across from Fay's Boat Yard, and use the land to access the northern 300' of the Town Beach for a Gilford based, community sailing program, and just forget about building a state boat launch on Lake Winnipesaukee for now...what-so-ever!

If trailer-boaters want a freebie State of NH boat launch, they already have one at Lakes Winnisquam, Newfound, Squam, and the one that's now under construction (?) at Lake Sunapee. Launching onto the Big lake is available at lots of different pay-to-launch boat ramp locations, and sometimes when there's no attendant around, it's a freebie launch, like most Mon-Fridays at the Center Harbor ramp.

What the heck, the www.squamlakes.org/programs/boating.php is a terrific community sailing program and is located on a beautifull small cove inlet on Big Squam Lake in Holderness, and it is not all that far up Rt 3 from Meredith. So, why begin to bother with siting, funding, and constructing a Lake Winnipesaukee community sailing program anywho? Why even bother?

Why the heck all these different NH municipalities do not just install those WMNF - U.S. Forest Service style money deposit boxes next to their public boat ramps and simply charge 5-bucks to either launch or load, NO EXCEPTIONS FOR NO ONE!, is a good question, but that's a good question for another day!
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Old 08-23-2011, 09:03 PM   #163
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Regarding the public ramp issue, I think adding a “real” ramp and extensive parking on the south side on Winnipesaukee is a great idea! I don’t have any idea where it should be, but not Ellacoya!!!

And I will gladly pay any reasonable price for its use and for the parking space.

I currently use the Meredith ramp and it’s a longer trip than I prefer and I don’t always want to be on that part of the lake, so something between Wolfeboro and Laconia would be GREAT. Also the parking at Meredith is limited and the Alton parking solution is lame to say the least.

As far as supporting local marinas or anyone with a decent ramp, I would happily and did so for countless years, it was called Ames Farm and I was thrilled to do business with them. I am still disgusted by what happened there,,,

Sadly I have yet to find a comparable option to Ames farm,,, Fays didn’t do it for me,,, Not trying to disparage them, it just didn’t work for me.

Anyone who can point me to a good alternate to Ames, I would appreciate it and will happily pay for the privilege of using a good ramp and parking.

With that said, I will gladly suffer the lack of a good ramp and parking to leave Ellacoya as it is!

Enough from me,,,
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Old 08-24-2011, 05:26 AM   #164
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http://www.fs.fed.us/t-d/pubs/htmlpu...2343/index.htm

Keep it simple and keep it relatively low priced: follow the example of the WMNF-U.S. Forest Service fee deposit tube system that charges three dollars/day to park at a hiking trail and charge all boaters who use the launch ramps, 24-7, five dollars, both ways, launch or load, with no exceptions for nobody, and that includes residents, non-residents, aliens from outer space, and even kayaks. Using a ramp, be it city, town, or state, could become a revenue producer simply by installing these Forest Service fee deposit tubes right at the boat ramp.

If you want to splash your boat here, it will cost you a little cash here; five dollars in & five dollars out! How much revenue would this bring in for the NH Fish & Game, NH Marine Patrol, NH Div Parks & Recreation, as well as any individual towns and cities?

Plus, of course, the price can always go up? ..
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Old 08-24-2011, 07:00 AM   #165
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This is not a good thing. That beach should be preserved for all to use. This proposal would turn a beautiful state beach into a country club. It is my understanding that the " investor" is using these children as a way to get what he wants.... a place for him to put his expensive toys. Sorry.... look for another way to get a tax deduction. :-) Sorry... had to put in my 2 cents. There is more to this story.
We were at Ellacoya this past week as we have been for the past 12 years and the park manager informed us that the Sail Club was going to aquire the park beach front. Is this still an option? As a Tax payer and citizen of NH we will fight to keep the only State Park on Lake Winnipesaukee. Please update me. Dean Glow-Brookline NH
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Old 10-21-2011, 07:52 AM   #166
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George Bald, NH's decision-maker at the top of the state park system, say's "NO WAY" to building a Winnipesaukee community sailing facility at Ellacoya State Beach & RV Park!

http://www.laconiadailysun.com/story...enter-ellacoya

So, that probably means no new sailing center on Winnipesaukee for at least another ten years or so. In the meantime, people interested in sailing who are looking to rent a small sailboat for a half day or all day can take the not-too-long drive up Rt 25 to Holderness and Squam Lake to www.squamlakes.org/programs/boating.php

Just maybe, the Town of Gilford www.gilfordnh.org together with the Lake Winnipesaukee Sailing Association www.lwsa.org would be willing to create a community sailing center down at the lesser used end (northwestern end) of their 1100' long, natural sandy and very beautifull town beach. Considering that the Gilford Town Beach usually has lifeguard coverage from about June 21 to August 25, and for the remainder of the year is unsupervised and open to anyone, a community sailing program could be a good fit there? Plus, the Town of Gilford is probably much, much, much better funded than the state parks system and much more financially capable of building, maintaining, staffing, and attracting both youth and adult sailors than the state.

While the state appears to have no interest in a Winnipesaukee community sailing program, here's hoping the Town of Gilford could be seriously interested to partner with the Lake Winnipesaukee Sailing Association and build a new community sailing program facility down the lesser used end of their 1100' long beach that could be accessed behind the Gilford Town ice arena.
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Old 10-21-2011, 10:14 AM   #167
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Wow. Sounds like thats the end of that. I guess I'm happy with the decision.
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Old 10-28-2011, 08:54 PM   #168
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This is great news!
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Old 04-03-2012, 09:57 AM   #169
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Im really torn on this one. Smith cove is getting crazy in the summer between all the bone heads in and out of Fays and watching the kids try and dodge them. Its CHAOS! Winni sailing needs a new spot or they need to slow down enrollment. I see dangerous "Kid in a pram cuts across bow of 35' cruiser" situations DAILY!
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Old 04-04-2012, 12:58 PM   #170
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While, I do see a few people who don't get the whole "stand on" or "give way" rules in Smith cove, I don't see how you could characterize it as crazy. I dock in Smith cove and the place may have some traffic but it is always very slow.
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Old 04-04-2012, 02:27 PM   #171
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Im really torn on this one. Smith cove is getting crazy in the summer between all the bone heads in and out of Fays and watching the kids try and dodge them. Its CHAOS! Winni sailing needs a new spot or they need to slow down enrollment. I see dangerous "Kid in a pram cuts across bow of 35' cruiser" situations DAILY!

Sail boat gets the right of way while sailing over the cruiser, period. A cruiser at headway (read idle) should have no problem avoiding the sailboat. I've been thru there when the kids where coming in and going out. Some of the areas are narrow and the sail boats have to tack thru them because they can't sail directly into the wind. I had to stop to yield for them, cost me about a minute and a half total. Sounds like some enforcement is needed there if it is as you say.
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Old 04-04-2012, 02:57 PM   #172
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Just to be clear the people not following the rules of the road are not the little sailboats. As ITD says they always are stand on vessels. Everyone crawls in there so there is never any real danger. It is fun to watch two boats "race" at headway speed towards the channel or a large power boat with a mast try to bully their way in front of bowriders.

BTW I'm avoiding avoiding using the plain English term right of way because it's a red flag.
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Old 04-04-2012, 03:45 PM   #173
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Smith cove is getting crazy in the summer between all the bone heads in and out of Fays and watching the kids try and dodge them. Its CHAOS! Winni sailing needs a new spot or they need to slow down enrollment. I see dangerous "Kid in a pram cuts across bow of 35' cruiser" situations DAILY!
I shot this video on a beautiful Sunday last August while the kids from LWSA were out sailing. I certainly didn't see any "CHAOS" and never have in that cove:

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Old 04-04-2012, 05:28 PM   #174
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... a selfish few have determined the fate of something that would benefit many.
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Old 04-05-2012, 05:07 PM   #175
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After watching that video, first I'm itching for boating season, second I can see that HUH may include the area in front of the Glendale docks. I have seen chaos in there. I have even accidentally caused chaos in there.
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Old 04-05-2012, 05:39 PM   #176
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We run from Fay's to Welch and back all season and often encounter the kids sailing class. Never had an issue, it's great to see a new generation learning to sail and enjoy the lake.

On occasion some of the younger group get to goofing off, being kids, but the instructors keep them on a pretty short leash. So maybe we get delayed a total of about 2 minutes a year?
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Old 04-05-2012, 06:24 PM   #177
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Like Sliccraft we boat out of Fay's and have never had an issue with the kids from Winni Sailing. We really enjoy seeing them out there.

Don your video is wonderful thanks for taking, editing and posting it. Love the music too.
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Old 04-06-2012, 02:02 PM   #178
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We frequently encounter the Winni sailors on our trips between FBY and East Bear Island. Some wave to us as we slowly pass by. They are well monitored and do not cause any problem to boating traffic.
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Old 01-03-2013, 01:33 PM   #179
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I shot this video on a beautiful Sunday last August while the kids from LWSA were out sailing. I certainly didn't see any "CHAOS" and never have in that cove:

Beautiful video..however LWSA does not go out on the weekends
And if thats a Sunday in August im Bill Clinton! P.S. I live in the cove.
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Old 01-03-2013, 02:22 PM   #180
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Beautiful video..however LWSA does not go out on the weekends
And if thats a Sunday in August im Bill Clinton! P.S. I live in the cove.
My mistake. It was a Wednesday.
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Old 07-30-2013, 06:11 PM   #181
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Screaming and whistleblowing all day long along with more chaos forcing boats to veer just off the end of our dock sometimes accelerating for a lack of knowing what to do to avoid the daycar..em I mean sailors. PLEASE put them elsewhere
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Old 01-15-2014, 09:58 AM   #182
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Default ......a new home for the Winni Sailing School

Today's www.citizen.com has an article on the www.lwsa.org purchasing a commercial 148'wf ??? property in Smith Cove for their sailboat program ...... seems like some big news.
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