Get your crabgrass preventor down soon

[lawn psycho]

Last year Rattlesnake Girl asked if I could post about lawn care. Alas, I waited until it was time appropriate to post.

I use a mix of organic and synthetic stuff. You can absolutely go full organic if you want but can be more expensive and you also have to apply more product. For smaller lawns it's easily doable. For others, not so much.

We are fast approaching the time for lawn care season to kick in. In order to get that lawn you've always wanted, uniformity is key to improved aesthetics.

Remember those weeds and especially crabgrass that was around last summer and into fall before the frost killed it? Those crabgrass seeds dropped on the soil and have been dormant all winter waiting for the soil temperature to rise this sprine to start germinating and restarting the cycle. A very common thumb rule is put down crabgrass preventor when the Forsythia bloom. IMO that's a tad too late. I put it down after the snowpack is gone and the first two inches of soil is soft. For me, that will be this weekend. For many others I suspect that will be in the next 10-12 days. Also, there are many other annual weeds besides crabgrass that lie in wait over the winter

I use Stonewall from Lesco as it has Prodiamine which does a good job of keeping a weed barrier on the soil. Go to your local John Deere landscape dealer to get it. Don't over apply! The big box products from Scott's, Vigoro, etc or OK but they required two applications per year to really protect you. Stonewall is once and done.

If you get an infestation of crabgrass (because you didn't put down a barrier) there are herbicides that work. I will let you know what it is but the deal is you have to send me a picture of it. Hint: Weedbgon with crabgrass control is powerless on mature crabgrass. Don't waste you money as it's not concentrated enough to do what you want.

Also, while there you can get Snapshot which you spread in your flower and shrub beds to prevent weeds. I have large shrub/flower beds so hand weeding would be out of the question unless I wanted to spend no time doing anything else. Snapshot is awesome and I get no weeds. If you are adding mulch to your beds I recommend you put 1/2 dose down before the mulch and then 1/2 dose on top of the new mulch.

For those right on the water, remember the rules for herbicide and fertilizer applications. For everyone, it is essential to follow all labels and do not over fertilize. It's too early to put down fertilizer as the grass won't take in the nitrogen..... Wait until after May 1st or the first mowing before you put down any fertlizer. I will make a seperate post about fertilizer.

I will say it now. The Scott's "4-step" plan is the greatest marketing scheme going and designed to keep taking your money. I'll try to recalibrate people but the ingrained marketing is tough for people to get out of their minds. I mean, Scott's must know what they are doing, right? Stay tuned...

Here's my front lawn from last summer.....

[Lakegeezer]

Can anyone review the rules about herbicide near the water? For example, is the Prodiamine that Lawn Psycho recommends allowed? If not, is there a way to prevent crabgrass on lake-front lawns?

[lawn psycho]

25 ft from the shoreline. Yes it's allowed.

[crowsnest]

Thanks i will be your biggest fan, I already put down step one (scotts)
is it to late to use stonewall ?

[tummyman]

My lawn service comes and has an outside company provide fertilizer, etc. all year long. However, last year they missed a later treatment for crabgrass on a newly seeded area. I am worried they may be late in coming this year as they have many customers and I'm just on the list. Can I put down my own treatment for crabgrass now, even though they wil eventually come and put down their own chemicals ?

[VitaBene]

As a former landscape contractor who applied a little over 5 tons of fertilizer per application, I support LP comments regarding Lesco products. You can find them in Home Depot stores at times. I have been out of the business (we sold our business to Tru-Green/Chem Lawn) for 15 plus years so I have not used Stonewall, but if it is as good or better than the Pre-M based Lesco products I used, it is a winner.

Scott's is OK but you are paying a premium for the advertising they do.

[chipj29]

I aerated/overseeded last fall. It was too late in the season for any of the seed to start to grow. Should I put down the crabgrass preventer, or will that keep my new seed from sprouting?

[VitaBene]

Chip, it will definitely prevent your new grass from penetrating the barrier that the pre-emergent creates.

There is some starter fert with crabgrass control. It is expensive and you will still get some crabgrass. You may want to live with the crab this year and let you lawn establish itself and start in on crab control next year. The crabgrass will die once the first frost sets in.

[Gearhead]

Thanks LP for the great information! The part of my yard where the leach field is has nothing but crabgrass and ants. Would I be correct to think that I would not want to put down crabgrass preventer then try to reseed? It has always looked like a dead zone until the crabgrass starts to grow.

[VitaBene]

Gearhead, The problem with leach fields typically is a lack of good loam or topsoil over the sand and sandy fill that makes up your field. The water runs right through the sand and does not get retained.

Check to see if you have at least 3 inches of good stuff (preferably 6") or you will be wasting your money seeding. With enough loam you should be able to put down an inch of water at one time and have that last a week. Doing so, causes the roots to "dive" for water thereby establishing a good, deep root structure. When you surface water daily, the roots never have to go deep.

[SIKSUKR]

I'm liking this thread already guys as I need serious help on my lawns.I want LS's lawn.Very nice but the pc people will be chiming in soon I'm sure..

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by Gearhead

Thanks LP for the great information! The part of my yard where the leach field is has nothing but crabgrass and ants. Would I be correct to think that I would not want to put down crabgrass preventer then try to reseed? It has always looked like a dead zone until the crabgrass starts to grow.

Prodiamine prevents germination and root growth. Trust me if you try to overseed after applying Stonewall that you're wasting your money. Prodiamine at full rate has a 6 month residual so it also means you can't overseed in the fall either.

You can apply Scotts w/Crabgrass preventor that has Tupersan as that won't prevent your grass seed from germinating. Look at the label to check that it has Tupersan and not Dimension in the ingredients.

Vita is correct, without good soil you're doomed. Once you get good soil structure and proper pH as determined by a real (ie not one of those cheap kits from big box) lab such as UNH co-op or JD landscapes good things start happening.

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by crowsnest

Thanks i will be your biggest fan, I already put down step one (scotts)
is it to late to use stonewall ?

Make sure you get the Stonewall WITHOUT fertilizer.

[Pine Island Guy]

time spent maintaining my lawn = none

money spent maintaining my lawn = $0

time and energy spent sitting on the front deck looking beyond what could have been a lawn watching the world go past on the lake while sipping a margarita = priceless

a good day of melting today, we will hopefully all be on the lake soon, lawns or no lawns

PIG

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by Pine Island Guy

time spent maintaining my lawn = none

money spent maintaining my lawn = $0

time and energy spent sitting on the front deck looking beyond what could have been a lawn watching the world go past on the lake while sipping a margarita = priceless

a good day of melting today, we will hopefully all be on the lake soon, lawns or no lawns

PIG

Given how it makes my property look and the comments I get it has way more value than $0

I've had lanscapers stop and ask me what I'm doing including the companies that spray. My neighbors who pay for their lawn service tell them they want their lawn to look like mine A little knowledge of soil science goes a loooong way.

It's a hobby...... And you haven't even seen all my shrub and flower gardens. I like getting my hands dirty and when people see you "working" in the yard or garden they leave you alone. Little do they know I am enjoying what I'm doing.

It's all good.

[lawn psycho]

Forgot an important detail that hopefully Don can put into the original post:
Do NOT core aerate after putting down the barrier as when you disurb the soil you are turning over the weed "seed bank" and working against yourself.

I will tell you that most lawns don't even need core aeration but it's a major profit maker for landcapers. Get your organic matter level up and core aeration is completely not needed. Whole nutter' topic.

Grass grows through and around concrete. Do you think soil is harder than concrete? Food (or grass) for thought....

[eillac@dow]

I am looking to find a John Deere location where I can get this. I have tried their website...but with no luck. All phone numbers provided just state..."Please leave a message". Really quite strange. I called their Londonderry, Nashua and Portsmouth locations. I even called some MA #'s and got the same thing.

Can anyone reco a location in NH or MA? Currently in Moultonboro but will be heading home to MA. So locations in between would we fine.

Checked the H Depot website and found Lesco products but did not see Stonewall.

Thanks!

[baygo]

i have a great deal of established crab grass enjoying its place among recovering patches of bent grass. I had intended to seed in the fall but missed it. Any ideas on spring treatments?

I read that it is better to let the crab grass grow so the shade from taller plants hinders the growth of other crab grass plants. If this is the case I have another problem. The crab grass is in my greens. I've cut them much close than they'd been cut in the past. Will this prevent the seeding?

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by eillac@dow

I am looking to find a John Deere location where I can get this. I have tried their website...but with no luck. All phone numbers provided just state..."Please leave a message". Really quite strange. I called their Londonderry, Nashua and Portsmouth locations. I even called some MA #'s and got the same thing.

Can anyone reco a location in NH or MA? Currently in Moultonboro but will be heading home to MA. So locations in between would we fine.

Checked the H Depot website and found Lesco products but did not see Stonewall.

Thanks!

55 Abby Road, Manchester, NH
(603) 621-2900

Lesco/ JD Landscapes primarily deals with the trade, so they are ony ope M-F an d some Saturdays until noon.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by baygo

i have a great deal of established crab grass enjoying its place among recovering patches of bent grass. I had intended to seed in the fall but missed it. Any ideas on spring treatments?

I read that it is better to let the crab grass grow so the shade from taller plants hinders the growth of other crab grass plants. If this is the case I have another problem. The crab grass is in my greens. I've cut them much close than they'd been cut in the past. Will this prevent the seeding?

Ray, Your crabgrass should not have survived the winter. I wonder if it is spurge or something else.

[eillac@dow]

Originally Posted by VitaBene

55 Abby Road, Manchester, NH
(603) 621-2900

Lesco/ JD Landscapes primarily deals with the trade, so they are ony ope M-F an d some Saturdays until noon.

Thanks for the info. I believe I called them as well this morning. I remember the 55 Abbey Road. Anyway, after seeing your post...I called the number provided. It said, it is now changed to 603-425-2572. So I called that....and got "Name and leave a message". Anyways, thanks for the insight on the hours. I might just try going there some Friday or Saturday.

Thanks for your help.

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by eillac@dow

Checked the H Depot website and found Lesco products but did not see Stonewall.

You won't see Stonewall at Home Depot.

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by baygo

i have a great deal of established crab grass enjoying its place among recovering patches of bent grass. I had intended to seed in the fall but missed it. Any ideas on spring treatments?

I read that it is better to let the crab grass grow so the shade from taller plants hinders the growth of other crab grass plants. If this is the case I have another problem. The crab grass is in my greens. I've cut them much close than they'd been cut in the past. Will this prevent the seeding?

Baygo, where are you located? If you are in New England it is with 100% certainty that it's something other than crabgrass.

The first thing you need to do before throwing down herbicide is to properly identify the weed or undersirable grass. Take a photo and we may be able to help tell you what it is. Some are easy to get rid of, others are tough.

And you NEVER want crabgrass to germinate as it's much easier to prevent germination than to kill it post-emergent. There is stuff that is approved for residential lawns that you can buy but it ain't cheap (and not available at big box) and needs to be applied with a sprayer.

Once crabgrass is germinated, the native grass doesn't have a chance. And, if you have bare spots that permit crabgrass you have other issue to deal with as well as likely your soil chemistry is out of whack.

[baygo]

Originally Posted by VitaBene

Ray, Your crabgrass should not have survived the winter. I wonder if it is spurge or something else.

Hey John, Thanks, it does look as if it died over the winter but I'm not sure yet as there really is not a lot of green in my putting surfaces yet.

LP, I'm in the Lakes Region of New Hampshire. Can't take any pictures of it yet as per the aforementioned. Thanks

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by baygo

LP, I'm in the Lakes Region of New Hampshire. Can't take any pictures of it yet as per the aforementioned. Thanks

I'm confused as I saw you mention Bentgrass and actively growing weeds.

If you have any weed remnants snap a photo close-up of the leaf and side profile of the stem (preferably the ligule) and we can probably identify it.

Are these putting greens on a course or your own lawn? Big difference in what can be applied legally.

[baygo]

Originally Posted by lawn psycho

I'm confused as I saw you mention Bentgrass and actively growing weeds.

If you have any weed remnants snap a photo close-up of the leaf and side profile of the stem (preferably the ligule) and we can probably identify it.

Are these putting greens on a course or your own lawn? Big difference in what can be applied legally.

LP, These are small push-up greens on a 9 hole par three golf course. The course had been abandon for a couple years and I have been applying some TLC with hopes of a resurrection. It is still very wet and brown on and around the greens. I will watch as it greens and get a pic up. Thanks.

[jmen24]

This thread is great.

I need some help with my own issue.

I have mock strawberries taking over my front yard (small berries, low and tight to the ground with yellow blooms). My front yard sits about 4 feet above the road and has plantings all along this steep front edge. The berries started out of the planting line and have extended a solid 20 feet into my front yard for almost the entire length of that area (aprox 100ft).

They have been spreading for a few years and I have not dealt with them, but I expanded my lawn and completely reloamed my back and side yards last fall and do not want this stuff taking over.

There is no grass at all in the area of these berries, I also have no issue taking the tractor to the front yard as the grade is getting repair this spring. Is my best option to spray them first before removing or can I just start shaving them out of the loam with the bucket on the tractor.

If spraying, what are the recommended options that I can do now. Snow just cleared out yesterday.

[tummyman]

Lowes is carrying a product called Sta-Green Crab-Ex Plus that lists Prodiamine as an active agreement (0.37%) aong with fertilizer. It also has no phosphorus. I bought a small bag here in MA for a very small lawn down here...cost was $16.95 for 5000 sq.ft. of coverage. Comes also in a 15,000 sq. ft. bag which I will buy for NH. Since Prodiamine was the suggested product for crabgrass control in earlier threads, I hope this will work.

[lawn psycho]

Yes, prodiamine is usually sold under the trade name Barricade. Ideally you don't want to put it down with fertilizer though. Wait until your first mowing or May 1st whichever occurs first even in MA

Also, if you have a small lawn don't just throw down the whole bag. Measure your lawn to get a reasonable idea as to size and apply accordingly. Most ferts bags give you an amount of 0.9 to 1 lb of nitrogen per 1000 sq ft. Some no-names brands give you even lower N as they are cheating you and providing more fillers. Over application is the biggest mistake people make and not only is it not good for the lawn that's when the run-off begins.

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by jmen24

This thread is great.

I need some help with my own issue.

I have mock strawberries taking over my front yard (small berries, low and tight to the ground with yellow blooms). My front yard sits about 4 feet above the road and has plantings all along this steep front edge. The berries started out of the planting line and have extended a solid 20 feet into my front yard for almost the entire length of that area (aprox 100ft).

They have been spreading for a few years and I have not dealt with them, but I expanded my lawn and completely reloamed my back and side yards last fall and do not want this stuff taking over.

There is no grass at all in the area of these berries, I also have no issue taking the tractor to the front yard as the grade is getting repair this spring. Is my best option to spray them first before removing or can I just start shaving them out of the loam with the bucket on the tractor.

If spraying, what are the recommended options that I can do now. Snow just cleared out yesterday.

OK, you case will require a long post as you've got several items that are topics all in themselves.

Since you are essentially re-grading your lawn you are in a good situation. The only time I recommend adding loam/soil is if you need to level a lawn, fill low spots, etc. Most times you're better working with the soil in place as long as you don't have issues with rocks, etc.

Anything with a vine can be tough to kill as if you miss even a small stolon in the ground it can come right back. When you mention yellow blooms, make sure it's not yellow nutsedge. If they are mock strawberries, then you can kill it with glyphoshate (Round-up). If it's yellow nutsedge then you need Sedgehammer which you'll have to get at the Lesco/JD or landscaper supply store. Just hope it's mock strawberries....

I would kill your whole front lawn and start-over. Typically you want to seed a new lawn in mid-late August up here. I assume a couple things so let me know if otherwise. 1. You have adequate water for the seeding 2. The area you want to seed gets 4+ hours of sun during mid-May to mid-Sept.

You should absolutely get a soil test from the local co-op or the JD landscapes. Armed with the test results it's the ONLY way to know what your lawn needs. I tell people this and they blow it off. Makes no sense to spend 100s if not 1000s of dollars on lawn care and not have a clue what your soil chemistry is. A legit soil test costs $15-20. The big box store kits suck and are a total waste of money. You'd get more benefit from eating the box....

Here's what I would do:
1. Get a hose end sprayer.
2. Buy a bottle of Round-up concentrate (get the higher concentrate can't recall of top of my head if it's red or purple top)
3. Spray lawn and kill everything. May take a good 7-10 days to see the full carnage.
4. Your goal is now to grow weeds for the next 2 weeks. Crazy? yes. Effective? Hell yes.

5. While you are killing off your lawn and the emergent weeds, get online and order your seed from www.seedsuperstore.com I personally like the SS1100 blend and that is what I used in my lawn https://www.seedsuperstore.com/order...ky%20Bluegrass

Do not waste you money on the crap seed in big box stores. They use old crappy cultivars. In fact, for most bags if you flip several of them over and read the mixes on the seed label, two identical bags can have different cultivars. Good luck getting a uniform lawn with that

Also, buy 100% kentucky bluegrass. If the mixture has even 5-10% perenial ryegrass after several years due to alleopathy your lawn will be 80%+ perenial rye and very little kentucky blue. If I had used "northern mix" to seed my lawn it would not look like it does.

Scott's Select bags all have the same mixes in the stores for the lots they sell but they have crummy cultivars. If you see Kenblue in the mix, run.

6. Back to weed farming. After the initial kill, water the soil for 2 weeks and get as many weeds as you can to grow. 14 days after round 1, re-load the sprayer and kill everything that came up. You have now effectively fallowed your soil.

7. Rake up all the dead grass. Don't use a power rake, aerator, etc at this point or you will just turn up all the weed seeds below and put them on the surface to grow. And definitely do not rotortill a lawn. This is the stuff that's hard to get out of people's brain as they think it's they way to do it. You MUST resist

8. Use a rotary spreader and lay down the seed at 3 lbs per 1000 square feet (again this assumes you are using 100% kentucky bluegrass). Don't overseed or you can create fungus problems so more is better does not work here. Trust me as I have found ways to grow and kill grass that I would never have imagined.....

9. Rent or purchase a lawn roller. Fill with water. Heavy is good in this case and roll the seedbed. Do not use straw UNLESS you have a slope to deal with in which case the seed mats can be used (the one's without seed in them).

10. Apply starter fertilizer at bag rate.

11. Either use your sprinklers or irrigation system to keep the soil moist (never soaked) for 21 days. That's right, you are a waterboy for three weeks and people will think you are a slave to the lawn as you are out there multiple times per day for a few weeks.
Make sure you buy extra seed. Murphy's law of lawns means you will invariably watch a downpour take away some of your seed in your own tears of sorrow. It happens, expect it. Just lightly re-seed the obvious wash-outs.


Kentuckly Blugrass is very slow to germinate and after 7 days you may not even see more than teeny tiny fuzz. By 10-14 days you see stubble and by 21 days you may have 2+ inches and some thinner areas. Don't stop watering after 7-10 days if you don't see any germination. This is why Scotts doesn't sell 100% KBG or the avg homeowner would never follow these direction, give up, and get so-so results at best. At this point, keep off the lawn and wait for your green friends to thicken and spread. You need to keep the watering going but be very wary of over watering. More frequent is always better than a drenching. After six weeks and armed with your soil test, you will need a second round of fertilizer with 1lb of N/1000 square feet and the soil test will let you know if you still need phosphorus at that point. You'll also now what if any lime you need and where your Mg and Ca levels are.

Germinating a stand of KBG requires patience and the little bit of extra effort up-front pays off big time by years two and three. First to sleep, second to creep, third to leap. And that's pretty much how it goes with KBG lawns.

Key values: pH, Ca, Mg, and organic matter. The first three you can control, the fourth take times to move but if you get everything else right with correct feeding and mowing practives it will land where you need it.

I'd start this project the thrid week of April and seed by second week of May. By then soil temps are really on the rise. Frost won't kill the germination but it can stunt it.

If you have shaded areas you may need to get a couple different mixes and seed the specific areas.

Good luck and I am leaving at a ton of minor details but this gets you 90% of the way there.

Just pray you don't have sedge as it can be stubborn to get rid of. Snap a photo or attach one if you already have it. The leaf, stem, and flower if available. If you cut the stem in cross-section and it has three edges and shaped like a triangle it's sedge.

[jmen24]

LP, thanks for the list. I am understanding of what needs to be done and my wife will be so excited that I will be killing more grass and adding more dirt for the dog to track in. I will get started on the kill next week. I hadn't shared my intension of regrading the front this year. Maybe I won't mention my part in the killing. The soil is good and deep on my lot so I was not bringing anything in for the front. The rear was all sandy after the excavator removed all the rocks so I needed a new base to start from. Thanks again for the info.

I will check out the cross section tonight. But the berries look exactly like pea sized strawberries and flowers come up in a stem. I will also snap a pic.

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by jmen24

LP, thanks for the list. I am understanding of what needs to be done and my wife will be so excited that I will be killing more grass and adding more dirt for the dog to track in. I will get started on the kill next week. I hadn't shared my intension of regrading the front this year. Maybe I won't mention my part in the killing. The soil is good and deep on my lot so I was not bringing anything in for the front. The rear was all sandy after the excavator removed all the rocks so I needed a new base to start from. Thanks again for the info.

You can get a nice root structure in sandy loam but you typically need to feed it more as the fert filters below the roots quickly until the lawn is well established.

[AB_Monterey]

I went over to Londonderry and they did not have Stonewall. They did have Dimension.

What's the difference?

Thanks for all the info. This is a very helpful topic!

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by AB_Monterey

I went over to Londonderry and they did not have Stonewall. They did have Dimension.

What's the difference?

Thanks for all the info. This is a very helpful topic!

Dimension is also a premergent (PreM) but does not have the residual that Stonewall (prodiamine) does. You will need to reapply Dimension in early to mid-July.

Not all weeds germinate at identical times. Worse, there are weeds that are summer annuals and some that are winter annuals so you need to ensure you have PreM at work whenever the ground is not snow covered.

I'll be posting a fertilizer thread in a week or two.

[christo1]

Now I understand your name , seems to fit you well.Very interesting and informative thread.

[Meredith Resident]

Hey Lawn Psycho! We have small patched areas of crabgrass from last season. We tried grass seed, hydroseed, and more grass seed. The crabgrass is the only thing that responded. We were thnking about reseeding and using the above mentioned product. What do you think of this ideaa?

[lawn psycho]

MR, I can't read the label but if the ingredients are Tupersan then yes, it is specifically meant for crabgrass prevention while seeding. HOWEVER, it has a low residual. After 3 mowings on the new lawn, put down the Stonewall (prodiamine). Some big box stores have crabgrass/weed preventers with prodiamine and others don't (also look for "Barricade") You can use the stuff that has Dimension but I have not found it too be as good and it has to be applied 2x year to really protect you.

My questions to you are:
1. Have you had your soil tested? Plenty of places do it and it's $15-20. Cheap money before throwing $ away on seed, fert, sweat, tears for a bad result.

2. How much shade? You need at least 4 hours of direct sunlight. There's some seed for shadier areas (chewings, fine fescues, etc) but much harder to grow grass in the shade. Don't confuse chewings, red fescues with tall fescue. Stay away from any seed that has Tall Fescue.

3. Do you think you have active crabgrass now? If you do, it ain't crabgrass and it needs to be identified. A lot of misidentification occurs where people assume it's crabgrass. It's too early for crabgrass to be thriving right now as soil temps just got high ehough for it to even germinate.

Follow my instructions above for killing off the existing weeds/grass and it goes a long way. If you get crabgrass in August (which you probabluy will even with preventer when doing a late Spring seeding), don't panic.

Whatever you do, DO NOT CORE AERATE, DO NOT CORE AERATE, DO NOT CORE AERATE (get the hint) All you do is bring weed seeds to the surface.

Just use a heavy roller after seeding and you're good to go. Trust me on this one......

Eventually I'll finish my fert/lime info. and post it.

[AB_Monterey]

Originally Posted by lawn psycho

I'll be posting a fertilizer thread in a week or two.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=angi1vwUkQc

[Merrymeeting]

Also wondering where you get your Snapshot. I've checked with 4-5 Lesco/John Deere locations and none stock it.

The one I have found in Portsmouth carries only the 50# bags. Seems like too much unless you are a professional landscaper.

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by Merrymeeting

Also wondering where you get your Snapshot. I've checked with 4-5 Lesco/John Deere locations and none stock it.

The one I have found in Portsmouth carries only the 50# bags. Seems like too much unless you are a professional landscaper.

I buy mine from the Portland, Maine Lesco/JD Landscape. You can call ahead and if they don't have them in they will order them for you. Tell Chris and Patrick I said hello

In a pinch you can use Preen but Snapshot is the way to go, especially if you have large planting beds like I do....

[SteveA]

OK... Disclaimer Time....

This is a Joke.. I am not posting this to make a point, start a debate or cause any type of rucus ... just a laugh. Honest.

I certainly don't want to upset anyone who already has Psycho in his screen name.

This made me laugh...

St Francis Explaining Grass to God: Thought you gardeners would enjoy this conversation between God and St. Francis. It’s pretty funny because it’s so true.

GOD: Frank, you know all about gardens and nature. What in the world is going on down there on the planet? What happened to the dandelions, violets, milkweeds and stuff I started eons ago? I had a perfect no-maintenance garden plan. Those plants grow in any type of soil,withstand drought and multiply with abandon. The nectar from the long-lasting blossoms attracts butterflies, honey bees and flocks of songbirds. I expected to see a vast garden of colors by now.
But, allI see are these green rectangles.

ST. FRANCIS: It's the tribes that settled there, Lord. The Suburbanites! They started calling your flowers 'weeds' and went to great lengths to kill them and replace them with grass.

GOD: Grass? But, it's so boring. It's not colorful. It doesn't attract butterflies, birds and bees; only grubs and sod worms. It's sensitive to temperatures. Do these Suburbanites really want all that grass growing there?

ST. FRANCIS: Apparently so, Lord. They go to great pains to grow it and keep it green. They begin each spring by fertilizing grass and poisoning any otherplant that crops up in the lawn.

GOD: The spring rains and warm weather probably make grass grow really fast. That must make the Suburbanites happy.

ST. FRANCIS: Apparently not, Lord. As soon as it grows a little, they cut it, sometimes twice a week.

GOD: They cut it? Do they then bale it like hay?

ST. FRANCIS: Not exactly, Lord. Most of them rake it up and put it in bags.

GOD: They bag it? Why? Is it a cash crop? Do they sell it?

ST. FRANCIS: No, Sir, just the opposite. They pay to throw it away.

GOD: Now, let me get this straight. They fertilize grass so it will grow. And, when it does grow, they cut it off and pay to throw it away?

ST. FRANCIS: Yes, Sir.

GOD: These Suburbanites must be relieved in the summer when we cut back on the rain and turn up the heat. That surely slows the growth and saves them a lot of work.

ST. FRANCIS: You aren't going to believe this, Lord. When the grass stops growing so fast, they drag out hoses and pay more money to water it, so they can continue to mow it and pay to get rid of it.

GOD: What nonsense. At least they kept some of the trees. That was a sheer stroke of genius, if I do say so myself. The trees grow leaves in the spring to provide beauty and shade in the summer. In the autumn, they fall to the ground and form a natural blanket to keep moisture in the soil and protect the trees and bushes. It's a natural cycle of life.

ST. FRANCIS: You better sit down, Lord. The Suburbanites have drawn a new circle. As soon as the leaves fall, they rake them into great piles and pay to have them hauled away.

GOD: No!? What do they do to protect the shrub and tree roots in the winter to keep the soil moist and loose?

ST. FRANCIS: After throwing away the leaves, they go out and buy something which they call mulch. They haul it home and spread it around in place of the leaves.

GOD: And where do they get this mulch?

ST. FRANCIS: They cut down trees and grind them up to make the mulch.

GOD: Enough! I don't want to think about this anymore. St. Catherine, you're in charge of the arts. What movie have you scheduled for us tonight?

ST. CATHERINE: 'Dumb and Dumber', Lord. It's a story about...



GOD: Never mind, I think I just heard the whole story from St. Francis.

[lawn psycho]

SteveA, I've seen and heard just about every joke and criticism of lawn care there is. No sweat, trust me

Grass is a plant and serves a lot of purposes and that gets over-looked. That shows in that joke as well as the misconceptions and use of poor turf management practices.

Unfortunately the majority of homeowners are clueless about lawn care but the Scott's 4-step plan and "what I've done for years" common knowledge are hard to break through. Misconceptions abound. I have neighbors who think I am holding out some "secret" on them. I get asked all the time. I tell them exactly what I am doing. They stick with their lawn service or "but Scott's plan says" and their lawn looks "eh", at best, or limps along depending on which lawn I am referring too. I actually avoid the conversations at home so this kind of post is almost like therapy

I know for a fact my lawn and shrub gardens as significant curb appeal to my house. So, I get personal satisfaction but I'll also benefit when we sell.

Bottomline: I put leaves ON my lawn in fall and mulch them in with a mulcher. Not one clipping leaves my lawn. You see how it looks.....

If anyone blows thier leaves and grass clippings into the lake, guess what, that is a huge source of P (phosphorus) into the lake (yes, on an unfertilized property)

For the lay homeowner you have the big bucks marketing of Scott's et al thinking that next bag of snake oil is the answer. Then you have lawn service and landscapers who don't use best practices (virtually all of them) and use the one-size-fits-all approach to maximize profit. Then you have the internet which for homeowners makes the situation worse. Landscapers (mostly guys with a clip board, white truck, trailer, and mowers but no forumal training) forums are about time & money. Other forums are inundated with people who have no formal training but think a high post counts as "experience". Throw in the fact that internet forums have people from all over the country with different soils and temperature differences all trying to come up with a single "master-plan" that works for everyone. Then you have the off-shoot Yahoo! groups of professionals who sit back and laugh
Joe Homeowner doesn't stand a chance.

Knowledge is power

FYI, I was going to post about fertilizer as I had the very lenthy information already typed up a couple weeks ago while bored on one of my long flights. However I witheld it as I consider Don's restricting to 5 posts per day as a line in the sand. Can't have it both ways.....

[Rattlesnake Gal]

I just came upon this thread that Lawn Psycho posted last year. Very informative! What a lush looking lawn he has! How did everyone make out and will you do it all again this year?

Originally Posted by Pine Island Guy

time spent maintaining my lawn = none

money spent maintaining my lawn = $0

time and energy spent sitting on the front deck looking beyond what could have been a lawn watching the world go past on the lake while sipping a margarita = priceless

a good day of melting today, we will hopefully all be on the lake soon, lawns or no lawns

PIG

PIG, I especially loved your post!

[NoBozo]

Originally Posted by SteveA

OK... Disclaimer Time....

This is a Joke.. I am not posting this to make a point, start a debate or cause any type of rucus ... just a laugh. Honest.

I certainly don't want to upset anyone who already has Psycho in his screen name.

This made me laugh...

St Francis Explaining Grass to God: Thought you gardeners would enjoy this conversation between God and St. Francis. It’s pretty funny because it’s so true.

GOD: Frank, you know all about gardens and nature. What in the world is going on down there on the planet? What happened to the dandelions, violets, milkweeds and stuff I started eons ago? I had a perfect no-maintenance garden plan. Those plants grow in any type of soil,withstand drought and multiply with abandon. The nectar from the long-lasting blossoms attracts butterflies, honey bees and flocks of songbirds. I expected to see a vast garden of colors by now.
But, allI see are these green rectangles.

ST. FRANCIS: It's the tribes that settled there, Lord. The Suburbanites! They started calling your flowers 'weeds' and went to great lengths to kill them and replace them with grass.

GOD: Grass? But, it's so boring. It's not colorful. It doesn't attract butterflies, birds and bees; only grubs and sod worms. It's sensitive to temperatures. Do these Suburbanites really want all that grass growing there?

ST. FRANCIS: Apparently so, Lord. They go to great pains to grow it and keep it green. They begin each spring by fertilizing grass and poisoning any otherplant that crops up in the lawn.

GOD: The spring rains and warm weather probably make grass grow really fast. That must make the Suburbanites happy.

ST. FRANCIS: Apparently not, Lord. As soon as it grows a little, they cut it, sometimes twice a week.

GOD: They cut it? Do they then bale it like hay?

ST. FRANCIS: Not exactly, Lord. Most of them rake it up and put it in bags.

GOD: They bag it? Why? Is it a cash crop? Do they sell it?

ST. FRANCIS: No, Sir, just the opposite. They pay to throw it away.

GOD: Now, let me get this straight. They fertilize grass so it will grow. And, when it does grow, they cut it off and pay to throw it away?

ST. FRANCIS: Yes, Sir.

GOD: These Suburbanites must be relieved in the summer when we cut back on the rain and turn up the heat. That surely slows the growth and saves them a lot of work.

ST. FRANCIS: You aren't going to believe this, Lord. When the grass stops growing so fast, they drag out hoses and pay more money to water it, so they can continue to mow it and pay to get rid of it.

GOD: What nonsense. At least they kept some of the trees. That was a sheer stroke of genius, if I do say so myself. The trees grow leaves in the spring to provide beauty and shade in the summer. In the autumn, they fall to the ground and form a natural blanket to keep moisture in the soil and protect the trees and bushes. It's a natural cycle of life.

ST. FRANCIS: You better sit down, Lord. The Suburbanites have drawn a new circle. As soon as the leaves fall, they rake them into great piles and pay to have them hauled away.

GOD: No!? What do they do to protect the shrub and tree roots in the winter to keep the soil moist and loose?

ST. FRANCIS: After throwing away the leaves, they go out and buy something which they call mulch. They haul it home and spread it around in place of the leaves.

GOD: And where do they get this mulch?

ST. FRANCIS: They cut down trees and grind them up to make the mulch.

GOD: Enough! I don't want to think about this anymore. St. Catherine, you're in charge of the arts. What movie have you scheduled for us tonight?

ST. CATHERINE: 'Dumb and Dumber', Lord. It's a story about...



GOD: Never mind, I think I just heard the whole story from St. Francis.

This process is sort of like making Iced Tea. You boil the water to make it hot to make the tea..then you put Ice in it to make it cold..then you put Sugar in it to make it sweet..then put Lemon in it to make it sour. Just doesn't make sense. NB

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by NoBozo

This process is sort of like making Iced Tea. You boil the water to make it hot to make the tea..then you put Ice in it to make it cold..then you put Sugar in it to make it sweet..then put Lemon in it to make it sour. Just doesn't make sense. NB

Can tell you ain't no Southern Boy Ever heard of sun tea?

[AB_Monterey]

Originally Posted by lawn psycho

Eventually I'll finish my fert/lime info. and post it.

This year? Please?

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by AB_Monterey

This year? Please?

Nope. Don has me moderated. I'm not part of the clique apparently.