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Old 03-27-2011, 05:10 PM   #1
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Default Dug Well-Buying Concern

Hi there forum friends. One of the houses we are interested in buying has a dug well. The current owner says it is "spring fed." The well was dug by the owners brother back in 1987. (not sure if he was an experienced excavator or not)

I thought there were issues with dug wells in that they could be easily contaminated or run dry. I also wonder how to tell if a well is indeed spring fed. There is a small pond on the property that they say is also "spring fed." The house is located out on Chemung Rd past Lake Wickwas. Nice country area.

Any thoughts, warnings on this issue?

Should we have a certain inspection done? (not sure what to ask for)

Should we look into the cost of having a drilled well?
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Old 03-27-2011, 06:49 PM   #2
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We had lived in Danville, NH for 10 years in a nice house with a "spring fed" dug well. It never went dry but came very close once. On several occasions snow melt with heavy rain resulted in surface water getting into the well. This will likely (and did) result in some bacterial contamination. Most of the time we had very good water. Also a small center concrete cover could be lifted off so when the power was off a bucket & rope could bring water up.

Suggest a water quality test as well as a rate of recharge test. Also get a drilled well cost estimate so as to know what the down side might be.
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Old 03-27-2011, 07:27 PM   #3
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We had (3) hand dug wells on our farm in Waldobro ME and never had a problem 36 years we were there. We did have one almost go dry in a very dry summer and we always had them tested once a year. The results were always considered excellent water. I guess there is always differences in different types of soils and terrain. in making your decision.
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Old 03-27-2011, 08:01 PM   #4
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Default Currently in Danville, NH

and had a dug well in my previous home down the street from where I am now. I didn't have water quality issues, but it did run dry. I had to go Artesian. They could only get 3 gallons per minute at 470 feet. At the time it was 7 dollars a foot + the pump and the excavation for the line.

Something to think about in case you either want to switch or have no choice.
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Old 03-27-2011, 08:11 PM   #5
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Guess I would not fool around if you intend to live here long term. Get a couple of quotes for a drilled well and negotiate it as part of the final closing price. If people really want to sell in this market, it could really play to your benefit long term. A dug well cannot be relied upon day in and day out as its output can vary with weather conditions. Be safe...and not sorry later on.
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Old 03-27-2011, 09:28 PM   #6
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I would suspect that if you are getting a mortgage it might be a problem. A call to your bank might save some heartache later on.... Personally, I would want a drilled artesian well.
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Old 03-27-2011, 09:54 PM   #7
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Default Go Artesian And Don't Look Back!

Hi Cate;

I agree with tummyman. Try to get the price of an artesian negotiated in with the final price. The cost of a drilled well over the life of your loan will be extremely minimal and a very smart investment.

Just my opinion;

Good Luck!

Dan
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Old 03-27-2011, 10:14 PM   #8
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I would suspect that if you are getting a mortgage it might be a problem. A call to your bank might save some heartache later on.... Personally, I would want a drilled artesian well.
I'm not sure what you mean by the mortgage being a problem. What am I calling the bank about?

I thought there is a difference between a drilled well and an artesian well. I've never heard of a drilled artesian well.
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Old 03-28-2011, 07:10 AM   #9
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FWIW - I beieve all artesian wells are "drilled."

When I was a small child we lived on a property serviced by a dug well. This property is now the "Wilson's Farm Stand" in Litchfield NH. It was owned by relatives until about 25 years ago. I still have links to that community and to the best of my knowledge that well has never gone dry and is well over 50 years old (pardon the pun!).

I'm sure there are many factors leading to the reliabiity of a dug well. Topographical details are probably most significant. If the well is closer to the top of a slope than the bottom it may be more prone to going dry, like when you stand a wet sponge on end there will be water at the bottom longer than the top.

As for the risk of contamination... The well I described had a stone wall replaced by a concrete ring, around 1965, to reduce surface contamination. I believe the incident that led to this 'improvement' was a skunk getting into the well house and drowning. Wells can also be "skirted with impervious materials so surface water is diverted further from the basin and filterred a little more by the surrounding sand or soil.

There are probably books available at the library that will provide you with some insight to decide if this is going to be something you'll want to work with. You probably wont want to pay someone to evaluate the well until you've signed some kind of contingent purchase agreement, then you could include a favorable inspection of the well as a condition to complete the sale. They will advise you of the practicality of improving or replacing the well.

If this location has made your 'short list' you can also go to the Town Hall and speak with the building inspector's department. They may have water quality information for various parts of town and informational pamphlets on this and other topics of interest to to you. While you are there, ask about a copy of the map that shows the propery lines in the neighborhood. I forget the technical term for that, if there is one.

Good luck!
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Old 03-28-2011, 07:26 AM   #10
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Cate, my experience with banks is that they don't like to give loans on houses with potential issues. For instance, someone I knew was buying a house that had a private well and septic, but the town had run water and sewer in the street that the present owner had not connected to. Before they would write the mortgage they required the house be hooked up to the sewer and water.

An artesian well, at least my definition is a well that is drilled to an aquifer, usually at least 100 feet deep. A steel casement is driven in to bedrock and keeps groundwater from getting in the well and are generally sterile giving clean water.

Personally, if I were you, I would call the bank you are going to use and talk to them about it. I would also talk to well company and the town building inspector. Once you buy the issues become yours, better to have a good understanding of the risks before you pay. ( I know you are trying to do this by asking for advice here, which is good, but people who deal with this all the time can be of great help.)

You definitely want to find a good home inspector plus get dirty yourself. Poke floor joists and sills with a screwdriver, if it sinks in then there is rot in the house, not good. Look for sump pumps and evidence of flooding, you can decide if you want to live with that, some people do, it's been a deal breaker for me. Open cabinets and look for rodent droppings, bugs and so forth.

It's a big move buying a house, don't be worried about talking to your bank or asking for inspections or upsetting the seller. In fact if the seller gets upset that you want inspections or answers, that's a sign you should run away and move on. Good luck.
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Old 03-28-2011, 07:56 AM   #11
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Cate, my experience with banks is that they don't like to give loans on houses with potential issues. For instance, someone I knew was buying a house that had a private well and septic, but the town had run water and sewer in the street that the present owner had not connected to. Before they would write the mortgage they required the house be hooked up to the sewer and water.

An artesian well, at least my definition is a well that is drilled to an aquifer, usually at least 100 feet deep. A steel casement is driven in to bedrock and keeps groundwater from getting in the well and are generally sterile giving clean water.

Personally, if I were you, I would call the bank you are going to use and talk to them about it. I would also talk to well company and the town building inspector. Once you buy the issues become yours, better to have a good understanding of the risks before you pay. ( I know you are trying to do this by asking for advice here, which is good, but people who deal with this all the time can be of great help.)

You definitely want to find a good home inspector plus get dirty yourself. Poke floor joists and sills with a screwdriver, if it sinks in then there is rot in the house, not good. Look for sump pumps and evidence of flooding, you can decide if you want to live with that, some people do, it's been a deal breaker for me. Open cabinets and look for rodent droppings, bugs and so forth.

It's a big move buying a house, don't be worried about talking to your bank or asking for inspections or upsetting the seller. In fact if the seller gets upset that you want inspections or answers, that's a sign you should run away and move on. Good luck.
Hi ITD-Thanks for the clarification. I am going to learn as much as I can about the situation and will contact other people in the know... and the folks who will be lending me the big $$. Thanks for letting me know of some other issues that may arise.
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Old 03-28-2011, 12:37 PM   #12
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I'm not sure what you mean by the mortgage being a problem. What am I calling the bank about?

I thought there is a difference between a drilled well and an artesian well. I've never heard of a drilled artesian well.
Cate
I bought my house 16 years ago and it has a dug well. Never heard of any mortgage lender having a problem with that. In fact I just refinanced and that certainly was never brought up in either financing situation.

I have had great water quality. In fact, my neighbor drilled a well next to my property and had very hard water with sulphur smells requiring a full water softening system. For the first 5 years I only had a sediment filter and the water was fantastic. It tested just fine. After about tens years I was noticing green staining in the sinks from the water. When I inquired it turned out that my water was acidic which was caused by salt runoff from a nearby highway. I had to install an acid nutreulizer which made the water harder and thus install a softner system as well. Works great but boy there is nothing like the quality of the water that came out of my dug well without any treatment. I have my Dads house and my sisters house in the same area with drilled wells and as is with most NH drilled wells, they need treatment to adjust for hardness/and or sulphur odors. Mt dad has also replaced his deep well pump 3 times because of lightening strikes at a substantial cost. I have a shallow well pump locate in my house that cost about the same as an above ground pool pump. I would consult a water expert to analyze the quality and the recovery rate. They could tell you what is appropriate. As for my dug well. I'm very happy I have one.

FWIW
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Old 03-28-2011, 01:27 PM   #13
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Cate
I bought my house 16 years ago and it has a dug well. Never heard of any mortgage lender having a problem with that. In fact I just refinanced and that certainly was never brought up in either financing situation.

I have had great water quality. In fact, my neighbor drilled a well next to my property and had very hard water with sulphur smells requiring a full water softening system. For the first 5 years I only had a sediment filter and the water was fantastic. It tested just fine. After about tens years I was noticing green staining in the sinks from the water. When I inquired it turned out that my water was acidic which was caused by salt runoff from a nearby highway. I had to install an acid nutreulizer which made the water harder and thus install a softner system as well. Works great but boy there is nothing like the quality of the water that came out of my dug well without any treatment. I have my Dads house and my sisters house in the same area with drilled wells and as is with most NH drilled wells, they need treatment to adjust for hardness/and or sulphur odors. Mt dad has also replaced his deep well pump 3 times because of lightening strikes at a substantial cost. I have a shallow well pump locate in my house that cost about the same as an above ground pool pump. I would consult a water expert to analyze the quality and the recovery rate. They could tell you what is appropriate. As for my dug well. I'm very happy I have one.

FWIW
This is good to know--dug wells are NOT the kiss of death and can even be a blessing.

Most of the houses we have seen in Gilford and Meredith have some kind of water treatment. Mostly those salt bins that we were told are treating excessive "iron" in the water. We've never heard about sulfur or hard water.

Also, doesn't it seem odd that your dad's well pump has been struck by lightening not once, but THREE times? What does he have, a lightening rod attached to it or something?

I am definitely going to talk to the well-driller people and water experts if we decide to go forward with the process.

You have made me smile this afternoon with some hope.
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Old 03-28-2011, 01:40 PM   #14
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Those "salt bins" are called a brine tank and they are for softening the water which iron among other minerals are responsible for making it "hard".Almost all softening systems will have a brine tank in this area.
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Old 03-28-2011, 01:45 PM   #15
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I am no expert but years ago we had a house with a spring fed dug well and the guy that did it said we had enough water to feed the neighborhood. The well was wonderful for years and years but about two years ago something happened to it so the people who now own it went on town water. I loved the water, it was so much better tasting. So I would not automatically dismiss a dug well. I would investigate it.

I have also had well pumps get struck by lightening.
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Old 03-28-2011, 02:08 PM   #16
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Default Caveat emptor

SIKSUKR reminded me that some houses that we looked at in the lakes region required water conditioning systems for their drilled wells. So you might want to snoop around and find out what drilled well water quality is like in the area of the house in question. Maybe the dug well was not simply just to save the cost of a drilled well. Of maybe the drilled well water in the area is just fine and they just wanted to save some bucks.

When we bought in West Alton the high quality water was a selling point for us. We are about one mile from a commercial "spring water" well where water is trucked out on a regular basis for bottling. The drilled well here (which is not artesian as the water does not spill out under pressure from the aquifer) provides water that could pass for the best bottled spring water.
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Old 03-28-2011, 02:20 PM   #17
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Default also check for arsenic

Cate, when you do decide to buy, make sure to test the water for arsenic and radon. Due to the high amt of granite in NH (the granite state haha), arsenic is a common problem. We have it in our house and had to install a treatment system to remove it, but it is fine now!
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Old 03-28-2011, 02:45 PM   #18
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Hi Cate,
Dug wells can be just fine. Some may run dry or become contaminated due to woodland run off. I have had water analysis come back with coliform bac. present which can be treated inexpensively. The well would be "shocked" and possibly the well tile cleaned. As others have said a dug well can be just fine.
The cost of a drilled well will vary between 6-10K. Some well drilling companies will drill a contract price vs. a by the foot price which is a gamble but can work in your favor if the drilling is not too deep. Usually a drilled well will be between 200 and 600+ deep with the pump usually placed 10-20 feet off the bottom.
If you would like additional info send me an email and I can help you out.
The Shemung area is very nice and private but close to town and the highway which is nice.
There was alot of farm land out there many years ago so you may choose to do an expanded test of Bac/ecoli, arsenic, manganese, nitrate and nitrite.
hope this helps!
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Old 03-28-2011, 03:16 PM   #19
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Hi Cate,
Dug wells can be just fine. Some may run dry or become contaminated due to woodland run off. I have had water analysis come back with coliform bac. present which can be treated inexpensively. The well would be "shocked" and possibly the well tile cleaned. As others have said a dug well can be just fine.
The cost of a drilled well will vary between 6-10K. Some well drilling companies will drill a contract price vs. a by the foot price which is a gamble but can work in your favor if the drilling is not too deep. Usually a drilled well will be between 200 and 600+ deep with the pump usually placed 10-20 feet off the bottom.
If you would like additional info send me an email and I can help you out.
The Shemung area is very nice and private but close to town and the highway which is nice.
There was alot of farm land out there many years ago so you may choose to do an expanded test of Bac/ecoli, arsenic, manganese, nitrate and nitrite.
hope this helps!
This is really helpful!! We would have all the tests done as recommended by our really fabulous house inspector (wink, wink).

Do you think it makes any difference if the well is said to be "spring fed" or are most dug wells spring fed? Springs can run dry too, no?
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Old 03-28-2011, 06:58 PM   #20
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Default Artesian well definition

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I thought there is a difference between a drilled well and an artesian well. I've never heard of a drilled artesian well.
A search on definition of artesian well gives various definitions, but the consensus seems to be that an artesian well taps into an artesian aquifer that has enough pressure in it to bring water to the surface and flowing out. Our old well is artesian by that definition, as it has an overflow line that runs out downhill all the time. The well for the new house didn't quite make it, as the water comes to within a few feet of the surface. Both were drilled wells.

If you ask a well driller company in the area about likely depth at a certain location, he may be able to give a pretty good estimate of depth, based on other wells drilled in the area. It's not a guarantee, just an expectation.
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Old 03-29-2011, 07:03 AM   #21
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Default Dug wells

Hi Cate,

Dick is quite correct in his definition of artesian wells. I am the Water Quality Supervisor at Gilford Well, where we do everything from well drilling, irrigation, geothermal, to water treatment. By the way, there are other very reputable well and/or water treatment companies in the area.

We test water through state approved labs for banks and mortgage companies on a daily basis. They all have different parameters for their desired testing. As long as a state approved lab test passes their requirements, they are satisfied.

Dug, or shallow, wells are a perfectly viable source of water. They have their good points and drawbacks, some of which have been mentioned by previous posters here. On the plus side, it would be unusual to find high concentrations of arsenic or radon in a dug well. Arsenic is usually found in deeper drilled wells and radon is a gas which tends to dissipate in a dug well. It is also unusual to find high concentrations of hardness, iron or manganese. On the down side, dug wells are prone to testing positive for bacteria, can end up with nitrates from fertilizer runoff, and can have an acidic pH level from all the pine trees in our state. These are easily corrected with water treatment and tend to be less expensive than correcting the problems found in drilled wells. Shocking the well or installing an ultraviolet unit will take care of the bacteria. A reverse osmosis unit for drinking water will take care of the nitrates and an acid neutralizer will raise the pH. Don't forget that the well may have none of these problems and require no treatment at all.

I hope this helps and make sure that you check with your lender to find out what they require for water testing before your home inspector visits the house.

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Old 03-29-2011, 08:28 AM   #22
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Hi Cate,

Dick is quite correct in his definition of artesian wells. I am the Water Quality Supervisor at Gilford Well, where we do everything from well drilling, irrigation, geothermal, to water treatment. By the way, there are other very reputable well and/or water treatment companies in the area.

We test water through state approved labs for banks and mortgage companies on a daily basis. They all have different parameters for their desired testing. As long as a state approved lab test passes their requirements, they are satisfied.

Dug, or shallow, wells are a perfectly viable source of water. They have their good points and drawbacks, some of which have been mentioned by previous posters here. On the plus side, it would be unusual to find high concentrations of arsenic or radon in a dug well. Arsenic is usually found in deeper drilled wells and radon is a gas which tends to dissipate in a dug well. It is also unusual to find high concentrations of hardness, iron or manganese. On the down side, dug wells are prone to testing positive for bacteria, can end up with nitrates from fertilizer runoff, and can have an acidic pH level from all the pine trees in our state. These are easily corrected with water treatment and tend to be less expensive than correcting the problems found in drilled wells. Shocking the well or installing an ultraviolet unit will take care of the bacteria. A reverse osmosis unit for drinking water will take care of the nitrates and an acid neutralizer will raise the pH. Don't forget that the well may have none of these problems and require no treatment at all.

I hope this helps and make sure that you check with your lender to find out what they require for water testing before your home inspector visits the house.

Rick
This is great information Rick. Thanks. I guess my main concern at this point is running out of water (for days at a time), the well running dry and having to drill or not having enough water to do basic things like laundry, showers, dishwashing etc. on a regular basis.
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Old 03-29-2011, 08:41 AM   #23
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CateP,
DickR and Skibum are giving great advise and definitions.

The one thing I would caution against is using the depth of neighboring wells as an idea of how deep a drilled well on your property would be. As DickR said its not always a good source of reference.

A client of ours hired us to build a new house on the lot they purchased next door to the house they currently owned. Current house had a drilled well that was 260ft deep and 14GPM in water flow. Entered into a contract to build the house and carried the minimum cost in the well drilling allowance based on the quote of the drilling company. At 800 feet or so, the drilling company had to hydrofrag as the vein was showing less than 2GPM, after the frag it pulled about 9GPM. That resulted in a 7K change order, based on an assumption that the owner hated, but took responsibility for.

If you get good water from a dug well and you keep up on your testing, you should have years of good service. I would not spend the money to fix something on the "possibility" that it could dry up. Both styles have fail points that will leave you water less. Spend the money when you need to as you cannot predict the future. Granted, changing a pump failure will get you going faster than having to drill a new well, but we are not talking months of downtime. To many drilling company options for that to happen.

One option to counter not having enough flow for basics is to install a large storage tank for holding a reserve of water for these activities. One home we built on the top of a hill has a 1000gal storage tank. The refresh rate from the well is slow, but with 5 baths they have no issues, because they have the water on stand by. I would doubt that you would have that type of water flow issue, but just wanted you to be aware of less expensive options.
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Old 03-29-2011, 08:44 AM   #24
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This is great information Rick. Thanks. I guess my main concern at this point is running out of water (for days at a time), the well running dry and having to drill or not having enough water to do basic things like laundry, showers, dishwashing etc. on a regular basis.
There is a test that they can do to tell you the gallons per minute, as well as the recovery rate. I would suggest getting that done when you get your water test done. Also if the well is your only problem with the house, I would just put aside $8000.00 and plan on drilling a new well.
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Old 04-10-2011, 11:34 AM   #25
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Cate, When you get all done with this purchase you can put in for your Home Inspectors License.
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Old 04-11-2011, 06:59 AM   #26
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Resale. Look at how this is influencing your decision to buy the house. The next owner will do the same and some will walk away. Something to think about.

I would not buy a house with a dug well as it's too risky for my taste.

As for depth in areas for drilled wells, jmen is dead-on. I co-worker of mine built on Sebago. The drilled to 750 ft on a lakefront lot and we essentially bone dry to that point and had to hydro the well to get only 3-4 GPM.

His neighbors well is at 325 feet with 10 GPM. You just never know when drilling a well BUT, if you buy that house I would get a drilled well as part of the deal.
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Old 04-11-2011, 07:34 AM   #27
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The blue jug still works for many islanders and some main-landers. There's probably hundreds of island cottages that pull their water direct from the lake with a shallow well set-up powered by a 1/2hp electric pump and use it for everything except drinking. For drinking and cooking they lug water onto the boat in one of those blue 5-gallon porta-tanks filled with town treated water.

The islands are very rocky and when was the last time you saw a big, tall water drilling rig and large truck set up on an island drilling an artesian well? Probably, never! So's, how do the islanders all get their water?

Turn on the kitchen sink.....and out flows lake winnipesaukee water! It LOOKS just like the town treated water.
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Old 04-11-2011, 12:35 PM   #28
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Resale. Look at how this is influencing your decision to buy the house. The next owner will do the same and some will walk away. Something to think about.

I would not buy a house with a dug well as it's too risky for my taste.

As for depth in areas for drilled wells, jmen is dead-on. I co-worker of mine built on Sebago. The drilled to 750 ft on a lakefront lot and we essentially bone dry to that point and had to hydro the well to get only 3-4 GPM.

His neighbors well is at 325 feet with 10 GPM. You just never know when drilling a well BUT, if you buy that house I would get a drilled well as part of the deal.
And my sister drilled a well at our former lakeside camp in southern NH and ended up with sulphur smelling nasty water. The old dug well had worked fine for 40 years. As I said before, my shallow dug well has beautiful water while my neighbor drilled a well 100 feet from my well and is not happy with the quality.
I would never write off buying a house just because it has a dug well. You might find more problems and expense with a drilled one.
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Old 04-11-2011, 12:58 PM   #29
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Resale. Look at how this is influencing your decision to buy the house. The next owner will do the same and some will walk away. Something to think about.
I think you bring up a good point LP, however I think in a resale situation if the buyer isreally interested, they will go through a similar process that I am going through now...educating myself about dug wells (here at the forum) and asking experts in the field (making phone calls). At this point I would do all the testing that's been suggested and just live with it. (possibly happily for many years) If the dug well becomes a problem down the road then I would look into drilling.
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Old 04-12-2011, 09:50 AM   #30
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Just to add Cate: It has been my experience that Nh wells that are drilled into granite ledge in general have hard water. Dug wells tend not to so further treatment such as softening system may not be needed. In my case the water is great and only needed sediment filtering. However, I do test a little on the acid side so I needed an acid nuetralizer. I would ask the experts what their opinion is on a particular dug well. That would be a water treatment center and not necessarily a well drilling company that has a conflict of interest. FWIW
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Old 04-12-2011, 10:11 AM   #31
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Cate, one problem that can occur with any well and in particular a dug well can be bacteria. This typically is discoverd during water tests associated with a buyer home inspection.
The bacteria problem can be easily corrected with a bleach treatment but bacteria can come back another time and you do not know it unless you have your well tested again.
I recommend installing an in-line UV system that treats (purifies) the water as it passes into the house. So long as the UV light in the system is working any bacteria in the water will be killed off. Well companies can supply you with the information on these systems.

This is just one comapny that makes UV treatment equipment. I have no connection with them just found them from a web search.
http://www.freshwatersystems.com/c-1...FUSo4AodMxdBCw
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Old 04-12-2011, 11:22 AM   #32
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Those "salt bins" are called a brine tank and they are for softening the water which iron among other minerals are responsible for making it "hard".Almost all softening systems will have a brine tank in this area.
One thing to look at and this is REALLY important. If you look at a house that happens to have a brine based water softener installed, or have one installed do not under any circumstances have them drain into a septic system. It will destroy it. When I put mine in I dug a dry well to drain it into in the back yard. Now I have no idea if that is "legal" per say but draining it in your septic system will lead to premature failure. There are other methods to soften water, but they can be significantly more expensive.

I think the whole idea of a dug well is fine provided the source of water is that good and more importantly reliable. I'd personally not necessarily shy away from one, but I'd have plan b in my back pocket if I had problems, which would be drilling a well. That of course assumes a well can be successfully drilled too.
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Old 04-12-2011, 11:59 AM   #33
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Default Not Able to Drill a Well?

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I think the whole idea of a dug well is fine provided the source of water is that good and more importantly reliable. I'd personally not necessarily shy away from one, but I'd have plan b in my back pocket if I had problems, which would be drilling a well. That of course assumes a well can be successfully drilled too.
My plan B would be to drill a well if we had to, but I'm wondering how would we know that a well can't be successfully drilled on a property? Is there something that we would test for before hand?
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Old 04-12-2011, 12:10 PM   #34
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CateP, it all has to do with access. Low hanging branches, tight tree spacing and a lack of water source to drill to are the main reasons.

There are a few other possible reasons, but these are really not common. A drill rig is a very large truck and requires a support vehicle that is equal in size. They have to be able to stay in position for a day or two while drilling.

So if the only way to get over 75 feet (code requirement) from your leach field is to drive over your leach field, you would want to get really friendly with your neighbors, quickly.
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Old 04-12-2011, 02:49 PM   #35
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My plan B would be to drill a well if we had to, but I'm wondering how would we know that a well can't be successfully drilled on a property? Is there something that we would test for before hand?
Beats me. If you believe in voodoo have somebody walk around with those dowsing rods I guess that's one way. On a more serious note I assume that any well company will have an idea where the best placement is for a well or have some information in regards to the location of under ground aqua-furs as it pertains to your property. There are things that need to be taken under consideration with that too, as it relates to the proximity to any kind of septic system. I don't know the exact figures on that but I seem to recall a well head has to have a 75 foot clear circumference from the edge of any septic system or leech field. I suppose there is no guessing as to why that is. The exact offsets you should double check, I think they are also subject to setbacks from lot lines too. There are folks on here in the business that can probably give you a more precise answer than I can.
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Old 04-12-2011, 06:26 PM   #36
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Default Wells, septic rules

You can find out a lot about state rules pertaining to septic systems and water wells here:

http://des.nh.gov/organization/divis.../ssb/index.htm

I note the site also addresses discharge of backwash from water treatment facilities in residences. You can jump to that from the site above or just go here:

http://des.nh.gov/organization/commi...dwgb-22-17.pdf
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Old 04-21-2011, 02:49 PM   #37
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One thing to look at and this is REALLY important. If you look at a house that happens to have a brine based water softener installed, or have one installed do not under any circumstances have them drain into a septic system. It will destroy it. When I put mine in I dug a dry well to drain it into in the back yard. Now I have no idea if that is "legal" per say but draining it in your septic system will lead to premature failure. There are other methods to soften water, but they can be significantly more expensive.

I think the whole idea of a dug well is fine provided the source of water is that good and more importantly reliable. I'd personally not necessarily shy away from one, but I'd have plan b in my back pocket if I had problems, which would be drilling a well. That of course assumes a well can be successfully drilled too.
Hi Maxum,

I am curious where this REALLY important information came from. I started my water treatment career in the 80's and am often asked if brine discharge from a water softener can damage a septic system. To date, I haven't found any evidence that it does (although "some experts" are sometimes quoted as saying that it does). In fact many studies suggest that the additional sodium helps to promote bacterial growth. Further, the additional calcium discharged has been shown to aid the ability of certain soils in performing their duties on our doodies. There are currently over 30 million households in the United States with water softeners treating their well water. I don't think that very many have dry wells. This is not to say that dry wells aren't a viable option. If the septic system was undersized to begin with, they would be recommended. A water softener discharges about the same amount of water as a top loading washing machine and less than most dishwashers.

Of course, if you can do a google search and come up with some evidence to support your claims, I will humbly stand corrected.
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Old 05-01-2011, 11:18 AM   #38
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Ah, the dug well.

Some have had excellent usage with a dug well. Used by some for many years. Spring fed? Well, could be. Water table could be high and natural. Nothing wrong with a dug well. For a few, a long dry Summer can lessen the water in the dug well. But even artesian wells do go dry.

Drilled well and artesian well are the same as far as I can see. Although 50 years ago most of the artesian wells were done by "pounders". I think that there is only one "pounder" left in all of New Hampshire. Pounders, they say do a better job. But take much longer.

Someone above stated to get this done in the purchase and sale agreement. If that can be done then get a drilled/artesian well completed before purchase.

I have had 3 wells drilled/artesian not on same property of course. Be forewarned and do some homework about well drillers. Most are honest. Been around for decades. Have a perfect reputation. So keep that in mind with this story. I had a retired elderly contractor do some digging for me. He was a retired well driller. But he kept one tractor/backhoe and did smaller digging jobs. No well drilling at the time I spoke with him. I mentioned to him my first artesian drilled well here in the Lakes Region. I was uninformed at the time. The well driller (not the retired guy) kept drilling and drilling and drilling. And of course charging me by the foot. "No water" he kept telling me day after day. He did eventually find water. But it was quite nerve racking with phone calls from well driller to me asking me what "I" should do. Should I tell him to keep drilling or should he stop and begin all over again in a different spot? That's what he asked me. Of course, I must pay for every foot in every hole water or no water.

Now when I told this story to the retired well driller he just laughed out loud. He could not contain himself. "Powered cement" was his response. I asked what does that mean. His story was that all/some/few well drillers keep powered cement hidden and that if they hit water on the first day - they can't make enough money on that well. So they must drill for at least 3 days. The powered cement goes down the well to prevent water from flowing. I was incredulous. He is making up this story, right? OK. This true story is over 25 years old. Well drilling equipment has vastly improved over the years. Drill bits are sharper faster and last longer today. Was this old retired well driller making up this story? He was not drilling a well for me. Maybe he had a twisted sense of humor.

But what I have done since is obtain a fixed price for a drilled/artesian well for all subsequent wells. You had best read up on flow rates and such. All of my fixed price wells have operated flawlessly. Very few well drillers will give you a fixed price though. Read the contracts that most well drillers offer you. Most guarantee nothing. And you must pay for every foot whether there is water found or not. With a fixed price, you don't pay unless water is found. And the well driller provides all underground pipes and inside home tanks.

Was that old retired well driller telling me a ficticious story . . . or not?
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Old 05-01-2011, 03:44 PM   #39
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Hi Maxum,

I am curious where this REALLY important information came from. I started my water treatment career in the 80's and am often asked if brine discharge from a water softener can damage a septic system. To date, I haven't found any evidence that it does (although "some experts" are sometimes quoted as saying that it does).
I agree with you up to a point. And that point is the volume of water that is discharged. It has nothing to do with the brine itself (although, as you point out, there are "some" people who say so -- but are never identified or sourced). But if the discharge volume of water is too much for the septic, then damage could occur from the overflow. For example, if you have a system that was perced for 3-bedrooms, and you have a family of 8, you might be at the limit (or even over) for the septic. So if you then add a water softener that backwashes every 4 days, you would definitely be in trouble.

But again -- it has nothing to do with the brine itself, although that's what is used to scare people.
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Old 05-05-2011, 11:23 AM   #40
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Default Drilled vs. Dug

The former owner of my home gave up on the very old dug well (about 24 feet deep) because there were so many ways animals could get in it (and die!) and also concern from runoff contaminated with pesticides and herbicides. Personally, I would have an allowance in your purchase price in case you eventually prefer a drilled well.

As far as water softeners (i.e., brine) are concerned, these have nothing to do with iron. Hard water is caused from excess calcium and manganese, not iron. There are other water treatment equipment available to deal with excess iron.
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Old 05-05-2011, 12:34 PM   #41
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Some have had excellent usage with a dug well. Used by some for many years. Spring fed? Well, could be. Water table could be high and natural. Nothing wrong with a dug well.
I wonder...if there is a good water supply near the surface (as this dug well implies) would a drilled well need to go down very far to get to water? If all those well drillers are looking for is a water source, couldn't they find it fairly near the surface?

This is probably a geology question, huh?
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Old 05-05-2011, 12:53 PM   #42
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That's a great question Cate that I've never pondered. My dug well has been flawless since the house was built in the early 70's. My neighbor built a house 100 ft from my well and drilled his. I don't know how deep it is but I do know he didn't like the water. Mine is great. FWIW
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Old 05-05-2011, 01:39 PM   #43
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There are several types of drilled wells. I do not know all the different names, but the one that most people refer to is an artesian well which is a well that they drill looking for ledge and veins of water going through it. One very seldom locates ledge close to the surface. They have what they call a gravel packed well which is also drilled but doesn't need to go so deep. I have heard that these can collapse and needs to re-drilled to clear it. I have no idea why this is a good well but many people choice to have them. It may have something to do with cost. When one digs a sallow dug well they hope that they do not hit the ledge and/or large boulders and depend on the water coming usually from deeper in the ground and being forced up towards the surface. Most dug wells are feed from the bottom of the well and not the sides.
I am sure others will comment on this and correct me, but I'm just stating the information that has been passed onto me over the past 60 years.

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Old 05-05-2011, 01:52 PM   #44
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My well is about 18 feet deep and has concrete "tiles", or rings that are stacked on top of each other. The bottom is open to the ground.
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Old 05-05-2011, 02:07 PM   #45
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My well is about 18 feet deep and has concrete "tiles", or rings that are stacked on top of each other. The bottom is open to the ground.
Yep, that's new modern stuff and the average depth. The old wells back on the farm were lined with built up field stone and took sometime to build one as they were laid just so, so they would not collapse. Then they put either a wooden top on them or form them and pour about a 4" concrete slab on the top with a hole in the center to drop the bucket on a rope or chain down to haul the water up or they installed a hand pump.

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Old 05-09-2011, 10:29 AM   #46
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I wonder...if there is a good water supply near the surface (as this dug well implies) would a drilled well need to go down very far to get to water? If all those well drillers are looking for is a water source, couldn't they find it fairly near the surface?

This is probably a geology question, huh?
Apples and oranges.

Surface water is completely different source than water found in artesian/drilled well. I am not a geologist so some professionals can chime in on this one.

My last fixed price well - the well driller went down about 1,000 feet.

Surface water. In the Spring parts of my yard are wet with water as water table is high in Spring. But it does dry as seaon progresses.

Dug wells are fine and people have had them for decades at some homes. But some, if not tightly sealed do get an occaisional animal in that will drown. And if an exceptionally dry Summer some run low on water. Dug wells are much much less expensive. And on the plus side of dug wells many conserve water much more.

On another note. Years ago. There was a person selling his home in Lakes Region. This nice home had an artesian/drilled well. But it had gone dry. So what the seller did was hire a water tanker to come and fill up the well. So showing the home, the all faucets worked fine. After sale and when people moved in the well went dry again. Then the lawsuits began. The new owner did eventually win. But it was long and drawn out. This story was in all the local papers a few/many years ago. Buyer Beware.
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Old 05-09-2011, 06:00 PM   #47
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And then there is hydro fracting. My sister-in-law had a well that was good for maybe about a gallon a minute and would go dry in the summer. After the hydro fracting process, they had 10+ gallons per minute and never went dry again.
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