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Old 07-31-2019, 05:40 PM   #1
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Default ...... thoughts & prayers!

Hey ...... here's an interesting item, two people, a 73 year man and a 73 year old woman both drowned yesterday, Tuesday, while kayaking in Lake Champlain at Burlington, Vt. Both kayaker's had pfd's in their kayak at the time of the sudden storm, but were not wearing them.

Is similar to having a helmet on your motorcycle, but not wearing it.

Reading the news report, it sure seems that wearing their pfd would have made the difference between life and death. Even wearing a skinny foam noodle belt as a not-so-bulky pfd substitute most likely would have made the difference.

Thought, prayers and condolences extended to their survivors.
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Old 07-31-2019, 06:16 PM   #2
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I think Iím the only one around south Bear who wears a life jacket while kayaking. You just never know what could happen.
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Old 07-31-2019, 06:39 PM   #3
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Default Quite a shame...

Ö.we always put on the life jackets in the kayaks. It's just not worth it not to. We see numerous folks in front of our place with no PFD's on while kayaking and paddleboarding. I've heard the argument of, "it constricts my movement", blah blah blah....I don't get it.
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Old 07-31-2019, 07:31 PM   #4
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Solid advice
"I've heard the argument of, "it constricts my movement", blah blah blah....I don't get it." (Thanks)

Never any good reasons for a silly substitute to keep your post count up.



Always wear your life jacket

Life jacket facts
Drowning. It is human nature to think it can't happen to me--but it can. The majority of people who drown in boating accidents know how to swim but become incapacitated in the water.

Sometimes they are injured or unconscious.
Others develop hypothermia or become exhausted.
Some are weighed down by clothing.
It is important to wear a life jacket at all times while boating.
An accident can happen without warning.
Usually after the accident, the life jackets are not within reach--in cabinets, trapped under the vessel, floating far away in the water.
Sandbars are not permanent. Sandbars are constantly moving, and the downstream end is often unstable and will not support a person walking on it (think quicksand). This is particularly true when the sandbar is covered by a few inches of water. Life jackets will keep you on top of the water if you walk off an unexpected drop off.
Life Jackets for all water sports
The common reasons people give for not wearing a life jacket are that it is too hot, or it will mess up their tan line, or they are simply not comfortable.

Today’s life jackets are much more advanced than they used to be. You can find comfortable, lightweight, and stylish options at your local marine supply retailer or even online. Many people don't realize the variety of new life jackets that are on the market today--belt packs and other jackets that are low profile, lightweight, easy to move in, and come in many sizes, styles and shapes for every person and every sport. There are even ones for pets! Visit the U.S. Coast Guard Office of Boating Safety [exit DNR] webpage to learn more.

It's the law
Wearable All vessels (including canoes, kayaks, and paddleboards) must have at least one USCG-approved Wearable life jacket for each person on board.


Throwable All vessels 16 feet or more in length must have one USCG-approved Throwable personal flotation device on board that is immediately accessible.


Wearable Every person on board a personal watercraft must wear a USCG-approved life jacket.


Wearable Sailboards and windsurfers are exempt from life jacket requirement, but are highly encouraged to wear one.


Wearable Federal law requires children under the age of 13 to wear a USCG-approved life jacket while underway in an open vessel on federally controlled waters.


All life jackets must be:
in good and serviceable condition, which means no tears, rips, broken straps or snaps;
readily accessible, which means you are able to put the life jacket on quickly in an emergency; and
of the proper size for the intended wearer. Sizing for life jackets is based on body weight and chest size.
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Old 07-31-2019, 07:40 PM   #5
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I wear mine every time I get in my kayak. Not a good swimmer and not taking a chance.
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Old 07-31-2019, 09:16 PM   #6
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Iíve never tipped my Tsunami kayak and I should to know what itís like. The cockpit is small and it takes a bit to get my legs in and out. So if I did tip iím not sure if Iíll slip right out. It might take some quick thinking and an extra push to get clear. Not having my pfd on then could be tragic. Iím certainly not going to do an Eskimo roll!
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Old 07-31-2019, 09:22 PM   #7
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Default Life jackets

During my many summers at the lake boats with upholstery had seat cushions that had shoulder straps so they could double as life jackets. Are these things still around or are they no longer acceptable ? I remember thinking they were kind of a joke.
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Old 07-31-2019, 09:23 PM   #8
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If I was 73 and kayaking you can bet my Pfd would be on. Lots of things slow down at that age including your brain and reaction time. But that said , a sad story. I’m sure their families are struggling.

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Old 08-01-2019, 09:06 AM   #9
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For about $25, Parafunalia in Gilford has these bright yellow swimmer's belts that are sturdier than a home made foam noodle belt, which pretty much perform the same way.

Once in the water, is not so easy to get into a pfd, while it is fairly easy to get into a swimmers belt with just one click of the plastic snap, or one bowline knot with the noodle belt.

Probably, if the swimmer's belt were a color like gray or khaki they would sell better than bright yellow. The belts encourage people to go swimming which is very doable now with the 80-degree water temps.

https://www.weather.gov.btv/60daytemp shows the Lake Champlain water temp at 78-degree, probably the warmest for the summer, on Tuesday July 30, day of surprise storm/big wave drowning.
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Old 08-01-2019, 09:16 AM   #10
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Related topic from a few years ago.

https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums...ad.php?t=20193
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Old 08-01-2019, 10:08 AM   #11
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Default PFD's Vs helmet's

Wait a minute now, when was the last time you saw a biker (not cyclist like me) wearing a helmet in NH? RARELY. That has always struck me as the peak of stupidity. Surely the odds of something bad happening while biking are greater than those of someone kayaking. You can SEE a storm coming and react. You cannot see an accident coming on a bike.

I'm not disagreeing with the premise of this thread but it omit an obvious NH "liberty".
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Old 08-01-2019, 10:18 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsmlp View Post
Wait a minute now, when was the last time you saw a biker (not cyclist like me) wearing a helmet in NH? RARELY. That has always struck me as the peak of stupidity. Surely the odds of something bad happening while biking are greater than those of someone kayaking. You can SEE a storm coming and react. You cannot see an accident coming on a bike.

I'm not disagreeing with the premise of this thread but it omit an obvious NH "liberty".
Is boating without a life jacket a law or a liberty in NH.
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Old 08-01-2019, 10:57 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Top-Water View Post
Is boating without a life jacket a law or a liberty in NH.
As long as the PDF is on the kayak it does not have to be worn.
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Old 08-01-2019, 11:11 AM   #14
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Correct.

Unless your less than 12 years old. Then it has to be worn.
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Old 08-01-2019, 11:33 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coltgov101 View Post
During my many summers at the lake boats with upholstery had seat cushions that had shoulder straps so they could double as life jackets. Are these things still around or are they no longer acceptable ? I remember thinking they were kind of a joke.
These are around--I have a pair in my sailboat to serve as cushions (all passengers wearing standard PFDs). The cushions are good to throw to a person overboard, but they are not substitutes for wearing a life jacket and do not count as having a life jacket on board. If you ever need to use one, make sure to put your arms through straps and hold cushion to chest (NOT your back!)
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Old 08-02-2019, 08:40 AM   #16
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Default Kayaking and PFD

I have been kayaking more than I am powerboating these days!
I find wearing the vest is better for my back and more comfortable, so I wear it all the time! I leave the horror show of the weekends for the serenity of our rivers, ponds and streams.
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Old 08-02-2019, 11:31 AM   #17
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I'm an excellent swimmer, a diver, and former water safety instructor, and I always wear my PFD vest while kayaking...out of habit. That said, I'm usually fishing in the kayak, and this is a double-duty vest, which has clippers and forceps hanging from retractable cords, and pockets for small tackle containers. But still, it's peace of mind. You never know when you could have an episode that renders you unable to swim -- medical event, collision, etc. And, depending on the time of year, hypothermia is a very real threat.
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Old 08-02-2019, 01:13 PM   #18
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I guess I am a rebel of sorts, like a motorcyclist with out a helmet, I canoe and kayak, sometimes without wearing my life vest. Wrong Write or indifferent.

Now having said, that there are times when I will put it on. For instance, in the spring when the water is cold, if I am out on a busy weekend, If the weather is bad (windy), or if I find myself on a river with white water conditions....

Where am I going with this.... everyone has a level of risk they are willing to take, and we have to respect that, not criticize it.

Everyone want to mold everyone else into their same comfort level, and what they define as practical... that isn't always a good thing... Individuality should be respected.
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Old 08-02-2019, 11:51 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin View Post
I guess I am a rebel of sorts, like a motorcyclist with out a helmet, I canoe and kayak, sometimes without wearing my life vest. Wrong Write or indifferent.

Now having said, that there are times when I will put it on. For instance, in the spring when the water is cold, if I am out on a busy weekend, If the weather is bad (windy), or if I find myself on a river with white water conditions....

Where am I going with this.... everyone has a level of risk they are willing to take, and we have to respect that, not criticize it.

Everyone want to mold everyone else into their same comfort level, and what they define as practical... that isn't always a good thing... Individuality should be respected.
No worries from me that an an adult decides to take extra risk for himself. But please do not put words into PFD fans mouths. My pro PFD post, and I assume those of others, was meant to assist those interested and persuade those on the fence (or those with kids).

I think it's dumb to paddle without a PFD, and even dumber to ride without a helmet, but that does not mean I want to mold you. BE FREE!
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Old 08-03-2019, 03:53 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin View Post
I guess I am a rebel of sorts, like a motorcyclist with out a helmet, I canoe and kayak, sometimes without wearing my life vest. Wrong Write or indifferent.

Now having said, that there are times when I will put it on. For instance, in the spring when the water is cold, if I am out on a busy weekend, If the weather is bad (windy), or if I find myself on a river with white water conditions....

Where am I going with this.... everyone has a level of risk they are willing to take, and we have to respect that, not criticize it.

Everyone want to mold everyone else into their same comfort level, and what they define as practical... that isn't always a good thing... Individuality should be respected.
Stupid is as stupid does.
You do you.
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Old 08-03-2019, 07:07 AM   #21
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On Lake Champlain one of the 911 callers who saw the two kayaks get flipped over and flailing about in the stormy waters, got on a jetski and immediately went out to assist, but was unable to find them. (Vermont Digger newspaper)

Even for a strong swimmer, treading water in calm, warm water for 30-minutes without any flotation is a tiring challenge, and different people have different degree of natural float-ability ..... some people are natural sinkers ..... some are natural floaters.

In just five fast months, it will probably be January 3, 2020, and the lake water will be a lot colder ..... https://www.weather.gov/safety/coldwater ..... some good cold water info hey-ah!
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Old 08-03-2019, 09:23 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grant View Post
I'm an excellent swimmer, a diver, and former water safety instructor, and I always wear my PFD vest while kayaking...out of habit. That said, I'm usually fishing in the kayak, and this is a double-duty vest, which has clippers and forceps hanging from retractable cords, and pockets for small tackle containers. But still, it's peace of mind. You never know when you could have an episode that renders you unable to swim -- medical event, collision, etc. And, depending on the time of year, hypothermia is a very real threat.
I can understand kayakers not wearing PFDs: It's hot, most of their kayaking is close to shore, or near shallows where they can stand up. Even wearing PFDs, it's important to stay with your boat. (Unless it sinks). Even when your boat should sink—in Lake Winnipesaukee—you're likely only a short distance from shore, where even a sudden storm can cause you to drift to shore.

Those who cross the Broads should definitely be thinking of their passengers' safety. There's a reason Parker Island was once named Hurricane Island.

BoatUS considered the opposite condition—prevalent here in August—and that is hyperthermia.

Quote:
[H]yperthermia, when the body's temperature rises above the normal level of 98.6 degrees F, can pose a life-threatening risk.

Hyperthermia most commonly affects: people over 50; those taking diuretics, sedatives, tranquilizers, and some heart and blood-pressure medications; people who are over- or underweight; or have a condition that causes dehydration. The condition can cause several illnesses...:
https://www.boatus.com/magazine/2016...perthermia.asp
As for "floatability", several years ago, a Marine was blown off a US Navy carrier cruising off Pakistan at night. Because of his Navy survival training, he survived 96 hours, and was picked up by fishermen...:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/c...155-story.html

Of course, after his rescue, he immediately called home.
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Old 08-03-2019, 09:50 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kawishiwi View Post
Stupid is as stupid does.
You do you.
Rather than call someone "STUPID" because they have a higher than "normal level" of taking risks, maybe you should just be grateful for all the men and women that have that "higher than normal level" of taking risks, and DIED taking those risks fighting for your freedom. Were they all "stupid" too? That's kinda how I look at it... Those people that have that "higher than normal level" of taking risks have a name for people like you as well, but the post will get shut down if I mention it in this pc society we live in today. It's sad to me that some people are just too "stupid", (there's that word again!!) to know when to be grateful... "And that's all I got to say about that".
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Old 08-03-2019, 10:44 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingScot View Post
No worries from me that an an adult decides to take extra risk for himself. But please do not put words into PFD fans mouths. My pro PFD post, and I assume those of others, was meant to assist those interested and persuade those on the fence (or those with kids).

I think it's dumb to paddle without a PFD, and even dumber to ride without a helmet, but that does not mean I want to mold you. BE FREE!
I did not get the "impression" that Liforrelaxin was trying to "put words into other people's mouths" at all. He clearly asks that his opinion be respected, not criticized. The only one trying to "persuade" anyone to do anything was you!! Right or wrong. You can't have it both ways!! You can't tell other's not to put words into other people's mouths, while you are doing exactly that. Amazing to me how we can read the same post, and come away with completely different interpretations of what we read. I think that is a "BIG" problem with social media, IMHO. I also think this country needs (a lot) MORE good old fashioned American rugged individualism, not less. It's what built this country. It has been declining for much too long now, and look at what we're turning out...

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Old 08-03-2019, 01:54 PM   #25
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Default Navy Skills for Life-Water Survival Training: 1:36 video

Navy Skills for Life-Water Survival Training-Clothing Inflation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNTSoKg6xHM

Attention here: everyone reading this is required to practice this exercise for at least two hours today!

There will be a practical in-the-water exam tomorrow, Sunday, at Flasher Buoy #2 at 09:30 hours!

Anyone failing this test will get deported to Magazine Beach, Cambridge, Massachusetts on the Charles River where they will be required to swim to the Boston side of the river without a pfd ...... .... and good luck to everyone!
.............

So, what do you do if you are wearing a swim suit or shorts? It only works with long pants.
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Old 08-03-2019, 10:33 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Cal Coon View Post
I did not get the "impression" that Liforrelaxin was trying to "put words into other people's mouths" at all. He clearly asks that his opinion be respected, not criticized. The only one trying to "persuade" anyone to do anything was you!! Right or wrong. You can't have it both ways!! You can't tell other's not to put words into other people's mouths, while you are doing exactly that. Amazing to me how we can read the same post, and come away with completely different interpretations of what we read. I think that is a "BIG" problem with social media, IMHO. I also think this country needs (a lot) MORE good old fashioned American rugged individualism, not less. It's what built this country. It has been declining for much too long now, and look at what we're turning out...
I'm sure Life's able to correct me himself if he disagrees with my post. But since you asked--my objection was to "Everyone want to mold everyone else into their same comfort level". As I wrote the first time, I do not want to mold Life, and I wish him all the best.
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Old 08-04-2019, 10:15 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal Coon View Post
Rather than call someone "STUPID" because they have a higher than "normal level" of taking risks, maybe you should just be grateful for all the men and women that have that "higher than normal level" of taking risks, and DIED taking those risks fighting for your freedom. Were they all "stupid" too? That's kinda how I look at it... Those people that have that "higher than normal level" of taking risks have a name for people like you as well, but the post will get shut down if I mention it in this pc society we live in today. It's sad to me that some people are just too "stupid", (there's that word again!!) to know when to be grateful... "And that's all I got to say about that".
Go eff yourself you despicable POS.
My son is active duty overseas right now and I lost a nephew in Iraq in '06.
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