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Old 08-25-2012, 07:49 PM   #1
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Default Sandbar etiquette.

When you are at a sandbar please do not force the rest of us to listen to your music.
Can't tell you how many boaters were pissed at the group hanging out at the Margate sandbar with the stereo on one of the pontoon boats cranked up all day long. Several times when they thought his battery was dead a bunch of boaters started cheering.
It is one thing to play music for yourself but another to be rude and inconsiderate enough to make the rest of us have to listen to crappy music on crappy speakers.
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Old 08-25-2012, 08:19 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by Belmont Resident View Post
When you are at a sandbar please do not force the rest of us to listen to your music.
Can't tell you how many boaters were pissed at the group hanging out at the Margate sandbar with the stereo on one of the pontoon boats cranked up all day long. Several times when they thought his battery was dead a bunch of boaters started cheering.
It is one thing to play music for yourself but another to be rude and inconsiderate enough to make the rest of us have to listen to crappy music on crappy speakers.
Did anyone ask them to turn the music down?
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Old 08-25-2012, 09:40 PM   #3
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Besides loud music, I like when they drop an anchor right below your swim platform, or park right near you when there is room all over, or light up cigarettes or stogies then drop them in the lake, or only bring one anchor and let your boat swing wildly right near your boat, or feed the ever increasing population of ducks, or anchor in the channel, or use foul language around the kids, or anchor inside the 150's, or bring your dogs up on the beach to empty them. Oops, ranting on....

I see it all, but attempt to just enjoy myself.
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Old 08-25-2012, 10:05 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by NH_boater View Post
Besides loud music, I like when they drop an anchor right below your swim platform, or park right near you when there is room all over, or light up cigarettes or stogies then drop them in the lake, or only bring one anchor and let your boat swing wildly right near your boat, or feed the ever increasing population of ducks, or anchor in the channel, or use foul language around the kids, or anchor inside the 150's, or bring your dogs up on the beach to empty them. Oops, ranting on....
I bet you feel better now.
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Old 08-25-2012, 11:12 PM   #5
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Default Ok now...

....Breath.....exhale.....breath....exhale...

know the feeling, Nh_boater. it's the reason we seldom go to the sand bars and end leaving when it starts to get crowded.
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Old 08-25-2012, 11:26 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by NH_boater View Post
Besides loud music, I like when they drop an anchor right below your swim platform, or park right near you when there is room all over, or light up cigarettes or stogies then drop them in the lake, or only bring one anchor and let your boat swing wildly right near your boat, or feed the ever increasing population of ducks, or anchor in the channel, or use foul language around the kids, or anchor inside the 150's, or bring your dogs up on the beach to empty them. Oops, ranting on....

I see it all, but attempt to just enjoy myself.
I agree with your rant. Some people will never get it!

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Old 08-26-2012, 05:50 AM   #7
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Default Not that I know of.

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Did anyone ask them to turn the music down?
Way to many to confront and believe it or not I'd say the ones creating the noise were 40 something plus not your young crowd by any means.
We were about 100ft away and couldn't play music on our boat if we wanted to.
Don't get me wrong we are not against hearing music outside of our boat but this was obnoxiously loud, the speakers were mounted on the bimini top so there was no reason for it to be any louder then it needed to be for the people in their group to enjoy.
Once again an example of what is missing on the lake, common sense and respect for others.
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Old 08-26-2012, 06:38 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Belmont Resident View Post
Once again an example of what is missing on the lake, common sense and respect for others.
Common sense isn't all that common anymore....
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Old 08-26-2012, 07:53 AM   #9
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Default A little off topic but...

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Common sense isn't all that common anymore....
there are several of these obits out in cyberspace. This one came from 93.1 Wolf radio.

Today, we mourn the passing of an old friend by the name of Common Sense.

Common Sense lived a long life, but died from heart failure at the brink of the Millennium. No one really knows how old he was since his birth records were long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape. He selflessly devoted his life to service in schools; hospitals, homes, factories and offices, helping folks get jobs done without fanfare and foolishness.

For decades, petty rules, silly laws and frivolous lawsuits held no power over Common Sense. He was credited with cultivating such valued lessons as to know when to come in from rain, the early bird gets the worm and life isn't always fair.

Common Sense lived by simple, sound financial policies (don't spend more than you earn), reliable parenting strategies (the adults are in charge, not the kids), and it's okay to come in second.

A veteran of the Industrial Revolution, the Great Depression, and the Technological Revolution, Common Sense survived cultural and educational trends including feminism, body piercing, whole language and new math.

But his health declined when he became infected with the "if-it-only-helps-one-person-it's-worth-it" virus. In recent decades, his waning strength proved no match for the ravages of overbearing federal legislation.

He watched in pain as good people became ruled by self-seeking lawyers and enlightened auditors. His health rapidly deteriorated when schools endlessly implemented zero tolerance policies; when reports were heard of six year old boys charged with sexual harassment for kissing a classmate; when a teen was suspended for taking a swig of mouthwash after lunch; when a teacher was fired for reprimanding an unruly student. It declined even further when schools had to get parental consent to administer aspirin to a student but couldn't inform the parent when a female student is pregnant or wants an abortion.

Finally, Common Sense lost his will to live as the Ten Commandments became contraband, churches became businesses, criminals received better treatment than victims, and federal judges stuck their noses in everything from Boy Scouts to professional sports.

As the end neared, Common Sense drifted in and out of logic but was kept informed of developments, regarding questionable regulations for asbestos, low-flow toilets, smart guns, the nurturing of Prohibition Laws and mandatory air bags.

Finally, when told that the homeowners association restricted exterior furniture only to that which enhanced property values, he breathed his last.

Common Sense was preceded in death by his parents Truth and Trust; his wife, Discretion; his daughter, Responsibility; and his son Reason. His three stepbrothers survive him: Rights, Tolerance and Whiner.

Not many attended his funeral because so few realized he was gone.

Now.......back to the topic at hand about sandbars.
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Old 08-26-2012, 08:32 AM   #10
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Yep, these days Common Sence is so rare it ought to be a super power!
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Old 08-26-2012, 10:36 PM   #11
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Default But people really do respect others...Right?

There' another thread about boaters spending the night anchored out. Some support it. Can you imagine how far that music will carry over the water at 1:00 am? And who ya gonna call? Just grin-and-bear-it? The poor Lake is changing and the increase in population also brings in more of those one-in-a-hundred, that can spoil it for a very large diameter.
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Old 08-27-2012, 06:47 AM   #12
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There' another thread about boaters spending the night anchored out. Some support it. Can you imagine how far that music will carry over the water at 1:00 am? And who ya gonna call? Just grin-and-bear-it? The poor Lake is changing and the increase in population also brings in more of those one-in-a-hundred, that can spoil it for a very large diameter.
Loud music at 1 AM is against the law. It's not necessarily against the law 3 PM, it's just rude.


644:2 Disorderly Conduct. – A person is guilty of disorderly conduct if:


III. He purposely causes a breach of the peace, public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm, or recklessly creates a risk thereof, by:
(a) Making loud or unreasonable noises in a public place, or making loud or unreasonable noises in a private place which can be heard in a public place or other private places, which noises would disturb a person of average sensibilities; or
III-a. When noise under subparagraph III(a) is emanating from a vehicle's sound system or any portable sound system located within a vehicle, a law enforcement officer shall be considered a person of average sensibilities for purposes of determining whether the volume of such noise constitutes a breach of the peace, public inconvenience, annoyance, or alarm, and the officer may take enforcement action to abate such noise upon detecting the noise, or upon receiving a complaint from another person.
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Old 08-27-2012, 07:12 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Belmont Resident View Post
When you are at a sandbar please do not force the rest of us to listen to your music.
Can't tell you how many boaters were pissed at the group hanging out at the Margate sandbar with the stereo on one of the pontoon boats cranked up all day long. Several times when they thought his battery was dead a bunch of boaters started cheering.
It is one thing to play music for yourself but another to be rude and inconsiderate enough to make the rest of us have to listen to crappy music on crappy speakers.
These are the reasons we do not go to sandbars....The language,the drinking,the loud music,the peeing in the lake and other things, and people just acting crazy and doing crazy things like diving headfirst into the sand and becoming paralized(Braun Bay last weekend). This to me is not very relaxing!!!
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Old 08-27-2012, 07:16 AM   #14
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"..the officer may take enforcement action to abate such noise upon detecting the noise, or upon receiving a complaint from another person. "

This is the good and bad of it. You have to make a complaint for the authorities to take action under NH 'disturbing the peace' rules. Whatever their reasoning for the public entertainment, if they were asked to turn it down and did not, police assistance could have been requested. During the day there is usually little they can do besides ask the obnoxious to turn it down though.

But... Frequently people this oblivious about the negative results of their action are intoxicated. Even if the operator is sober,this could provide enough leverage to get them to adjust their behavior.
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Old 08-27-2012, 07:45 AM   #15
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doing crazy things like diving headfirst into the sand and becoming paralized(Braun Bay last weekend).
Do you have any other info on this?
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Old 08-27-2012, 09:45 AM   #16
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There was a young man that dove off the boat in less than three feet of water. Knocked out. Local rescue boat stabilized and transported to shore where he was moved to a second location for a helicopter medi-vac. Friends were 2 boats away and relayed this story. Not sure of the outcome. They stated he became concious but could not feel his lower body. Pray that it was a temporary condition......
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Old 08-27-2012, 04:21 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Belmont Resident View Post
When you are at a sandbar please do not force the rest of us to listen to your music.
Can't tell you how many boaters were pissed at the group hanging out at the Margate sandbar with the stereo on one of the pontoon boats cranked up all day long. Several times when they thought his battery was dead a bunch of boaters started cheering.
It is one thing to play music for yourself but another to be rude and inconsiderate enough to make the rest of us have to listen to crappy music on crappy speakers.
I've had similar thoughts over the years and for that reason, I try to keep my own stereo down so as not to disturb others anchored next to me.

Last weekend, 8/19 to be exact, we were at the Margate sandbar and had the exact same situation, one pontoon boat playing music loud enough for everyone within 300 ft on either side of them to hear it clearly. I didn't think of complaining too much though since I was enjoying their choice in music but it was still loud and I felt bad for the other boaters that were closer than we were.


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There was a young man that dove off the boat in less than three feet of water. Knocked out. Local rescue boat stabilized and transported to shore where he was moved to a second location for a helicopter medi-vac. Friends were 2 boats away and relayed this story. Not sure of the outcome. They stated he became concious but could not feel his lower body. Pray that it was a temporary condition......
I pray he had health insurance otherwise the rest of us are paying for his healthcare! Once again, if Common Sense had prevailed, he would've been fine!
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Old 08-27-2012, 04:57 PM   #18
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Default Tragic

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Originally Posted by NoRegrets View Post
There was a young man that dove off the boat in less than three feet of water. Knocked out. Local rescue boat stabilized and transported to shore where he was moved to a second location for a helicopter medi-vac. Friends were 2 boats away and relayed this story. Not sure of the outcome. They stated he became concious but could not feel his lower body. Pray that it was a temporary condition......
Wow, A young man like that makes a simple mistake that could cost him paralysis for the rest of his life. Truly tragic... I pray he is O.K.

Dan
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Old 08-27-2012, 05:02 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave R View Post
Loud music at 1 AM is against the law. It's not necessarily against the law 3 PM, it's just rude.


644:2 Disorderly Conduct. – A person is guilty of disorderly conduct if:


III. He purposely causes a breach of the peace, public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm, or recklessly creates a risk thereof, by:
(a) Making loud or unreasonable noises in a public place, or making loud or unreasonable noises in a private place which can be heard in a public place or other private places, which noises would disturb a person of average sensibilities; or
III-a. When noise under subparagraph III(a) is emanating from a vehicle's sound system or any portable sound system located within a vehicle, a law enforcement officer shall be considered a person of average sensibilities for purposes of determining whether the volume of such noise constitutes a breach of the peace, public inconvenience, annoyance, or alarm, and the officer may take enforcement action to abate such noise upon detecting the noise, or upon receiving a complaint from another person.
Like I asked "Who are you going to call at 1:00am? The police? Nope. They're not going out there. Marine Patrol? Not operating at that time. I know it's against the law, but tell me what you would do?
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Old 08-27-2012, 06:04 PM   #20
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Old 08-27-2012, 09:43 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by NoRegrets View Post
There was a young man that dove off the boat in less than three feet of water. Knocked out. Local rescue boat stabilized and transported to shore where he was moved to a second location for a helicopter medi-vac. Friends were 2 boats away and relayed this story. Not sure of the outcome. They stated he became concious but could not feel his lower body. Pray that it was a temporary condition......
Yes his condition does appear to be permanent.
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Old 08-27-2012, 10:40 PM   #22
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That is horrible to read. I sure hope he fully recovers.

I actually see this quite often at sand bars; diving and doing flips into three feet (or less) of water. It always concerns me for this very reason.
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Old 08-28-2012, 08:19 AM   #23
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Yes his condition does appear to be permanent.
That is just awful news... how sad.

Do you know the name of the injured person? Is he from the area?

My prayers go out to him and his family.

Dan
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Old 08-28-2012, 08:36 AM   #24
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Thumbs down

That just plain sucks!!!
No matter how drunk, unruly or belligerent it is still is a real shame.
The other question is why didn't those around him stop him?
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Old 08-28-2012, 08:45 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Wolfeboro_Baja View Post
I've had similar thoughts over the years and for that reason, I try to keep my own stereo down so as not to disturb others anchored next to me.

Last weekend, 8/19 to be exact, we were at the Margate sandbar and had the exact same situation, one pontoon boat playing music loud enough for everyone within 300 ft on either side of them to hear it clearly. I didn't think of complaining too much though since I was enjoying their choice in music but it was still loud and I felt bad for the other boaters that were closer than we were.


I pray he had health insurance otherwise the rest of us are paying for his healthcare! Once again, if Common Sense had prevailed, he would've been fine!
So I guess those pontoon guys do it on a regular basis. Maybe a call to the MP will curb their need to be obnoxious to those around them.
You would think that once they know the MP has them targeted they would refrain from drawing attention to themselves since they all looked to be drinking and many appeared to be quite intoxicated.

Wolfeboro Baja every time I see a Baja, Formula, Fountain etc I am reminded of how much I miss selling mine. But then I remember the boat, slip and insurance payments I don't have and it makes it a little better but not all.
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Old 08-28-2012, 01:45 PM   #26
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Default Music vs Noise

The folks who think 5 watts amp and crappy speakers is music to their ears, it is downright noise to others. Especially all the rap music with four letter adjectives. They should be banned from NH.

I can live with Jimmy Buffett or Bob Marley through a 1500 watt amp and DCGold speakers. If I am at a sandbar, I would play it low unless the folks around me ask to hear the music. I never had a complaint!

I avoid the sandbars on weekends. Last Sunday, I happened to anchor at the West Alton sandbar and find it surprisingly civil!

I was told by another boater, the property owners along the sandbar calls every chance they get, so it has to be civil. he also told me to be prepared to move the boat if a property owner thinks you are anchoring too close, even if you are 300' out!
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Old 08-28-2012, 02:38 PM   #27
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The folks who think 5 watts amp and crappy speakers is music to their ears, it is downright noise to others. Especially all the rap music with four letter adjectives. They should be banned from NH.

I can live with Jimmy Buffett or Bob Marley through a 1500 watt amp and DCGold speakers. If I am at a sandbar, I would play it low unless the folks around me ask to hear the music. I never had a complaint!

I avoid the sandbars on weekends. Last Sunday, I happened to anchor at the West Alton sandbar and find it surprisingly civil!

I was told by another boater, the property owners along the sandbar calls every chance they get, so it has to be civil. he also told me to be prepared to move the boat if a property owner thinks you are anchoring too close, even if you are 300' out!
You have to be 300 feet away from shore at that sandbar?
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Old 08-28-2012, 03:41 PM   #28
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The rule in No Rfating zones is 150'. The West Alton sandbar has red markers at 150'.
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Old 08-28-2012, 04:18 PM   #29
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That is just awful news... how sad.

Do you know the name of the injured person? Is he from the area?

My prayers go out to him and his family.

Dan
Yes I know some off the family very well,I don't feel comfortable giving out his name, he is not from the lakes region.
I also can not understand why anyone wants to dive off a boat into shallow water.
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Old 08-28-2012, 04:22 PM   #30
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Default Through the years

There were a number of people that have dive and break their necks. People have to learn the hard way.
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Old 08-28-2012, 04:37 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knot yet;189944I
also can not understand why anyone wants to dive off a boat into shallow water.
I don't think he did it knowing what the end result would be... He made a mistake plain and simple, one he will be paying for the rest of his life.

We all make mistakes especially when we were young. I know there were MANY things I did when I was young that totally seem foolish now. Luckily I survived them. How bout you??

This young man has a long road ahead of him and I only wish him and his family nothing but the best and hopefully some kind of recovery.

Dan
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Old 08-28-2012, 05:38 PM   #32
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I don't think he did it knowing what the end result would be... He made a mistake plain and simple, one he will be paying for the rest of his life.

We all make mistakes especially when we were young. I know there were MANY things I did when I was young that totally seem foolish now. Luckily I survived them. How bout you??

This young man has a long road ahead of him and I only wish him and his family nothing but the best and hopefully some kind of recovery.

Dan
I could not agree more about the things we did when we were young. But he isn't that young any more and his son even made a comment that he knows better. But you are absolutely right about the mistake just wish he would have thought about it and his family first.
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Old 08-28-2012, 08:09 PM   #33
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The folks who think 5 watts amp and crappy speakers is music to their ears, it is downright noise to others. Especially all the rap music with four letter adjectives. They should be banned from NH.

I can live with Jimmy Buffett or Bob Marley through a 1500 watt amp and DCGold speakers. If I am at a sandbar, I would play it low unless the folks around me ask to hear the music. I never had a complaint!

I avoid the sandbars on weekends. Last Sunday, I happened to anchor at the West Alton sandbar and find it surprisingly civil!

I was told by another boater, the property owners along the sandbar calls every chance they get, so it has to be civil. he also told me to be prepared to move the boat if a property owner thinks you are anchoring too close, even if you are 300' out!
BH, the guy (I know who he is) who lives in the white dumpy camp has often got out in his kayak and attempts to "enforce" the 150 markers by telling people in boats to leave. The shoreline is not striaght and often he's actually wrong as to where the 150 ft line is. However, for a citizen to be acting in a way to enforce a boating rule is harassment.

I can tell you right now if he EVER tells anyone on my vessel to move I can assure you the court battles and restraininhg order will be filed. I'm "that guy" that he never wants to mess with

As for the 150 mark, given that is applies to some rafting areas and not others and impacts gatherings on public property, there are constitutional questions as the arbitrary way no rafting areas are even allowed to be obtained. The criteria to get a no rafting permit is flawed.

You can't claim one area of the lake needs 150 ft exclusion from shore from boats and not others. It smacks of elitism.

Trust me when I tell you that I was veeeeeerrry close to filing a lawsuit (also helps to have a lawyer in the family who agrees that the rafting rules are ripe for a legal challenge. Instead we're planning to sell the boat and get a pool.

I seriously hope that homeowner reads this as I'm tempted to park my boat close enough so he approaches my boat. It will be a day he (and his wallet) remembers.
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Old 08-29-2012, 06:31 AM   #34
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The rule in No Rfating zones is 150'. The West Alton sandbar has red markers at 150'.
I know the Braun bay one was at 75 but up till the time we stopped going there none was posted at west Alton.
A sand bar has always been a hangout area and those buying a home do so knowing this so I have no pity for homeowners having to deal with all the people who hang out there.
That being said there is also no reason why boaters cannot respect the landowners and not be loud and obnoxious.
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Old 08-29-2012, 09:35 AM   #35
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I know the Braun bay one was at 75 but up till the time we stopped going there none was posted at west Alton.
A sand bar has always been a hangout area and those buying a home do so knowing this so I have no pity for homeowners having to deal with all the people who hang out there.
That being said there is also no reason why boaters cannot respect the landowners and not be loud and obnoxious.
When we were shopping for an island lot in 2004 we looked at one on Sleepers across from the West Alton sandbar. We stayed away because we didnt want to look at it or hear it every weekend. Someone who would buy a lot and build a house right behind it on the mainland has to expect it...
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Old 08-29-2012, 09:46 AM   #36
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Besides loud music, I like when they drop an anchor right below your swim platform, or park right near you when there is room all over, or light up cigarettes or stogies then drop them in the lake, or only bring one anchor and let your boat swing wildly right near your boat, or feed the ever increasing population of ducks, or anchor in the channel, or use foul language around the kids, or anchor inside the 150's, or bring your dogs up on the beach to empty them. Oops, ranting on....

I see it all, but attempt to just enjoy myself.
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Old 08-29-2012, 02:46 PM   #37
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Like I asked "Who are you going to call at 1:00am? The police? Nope. They're not going out there. Marine Patrol? Not operating at that time. I know it's against the law, but tell me what you would do?

I've got an awesome potato cannon... Never had to deal with it, not sure what I'd do.

If the MP is not operating at 1AM, what's to stop people from anchoring overnight now?
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Old 08-29-2012, 07:58 PM   #38
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If it can rain cats and dogs, then I guess it can rain potatoes. Frogs are another descending species that have been observed.
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Old 08-29-2012, 10:36 PM   #39
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Wolfeboro Baja every time I see a Baja, Formula, Fountain etc I am reminded of how much I miss selling mine. But then I remember the boat, slip and insurance payments I don't have and it makes it a little better but not all.
Well, the boat's paid for and we trailer it so there's no slip fee (although I wouldn't mind the convenience of just driving up and heading out!) but there's still the insurance, maintenance and "feeding" (read "fueling") costs to deal with. I have different issues; I'm not real fond of the trailering but on the plus side, we're only an hour away which is better than some others may have it. Also, we're not exactly rich or well-off so I don't have the money to customize it the way I'd like to. Bottom line is, it gets us out on the lake one day a week (which still isn't enough but there's nothing we can do about that) and it's fun to be out there on our Baja!

I guess I'll stick with it until I can no longer afford the fuel!
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Old 09-05-2012, 07:41 AM   #40
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Way to many to confront and believe it or not I'd say the ones creating the noise were 40 something plus not your young crowd by any means.
We were about 100ft away and couldn't play music on our boat if we wanted to.
Don't get me wrong we are not against hearing music outside of our boat but this was obnoxiously loud, the speakers were mounted on the bimini top so there was no reason for it to be any louder then it needed to be for the people in their group to enjoy.
Once again an example of what is missing on the lake, common sense and respect for others.
Sounds like a good time if I want a qiet day we find a cove some were and if we want to Hoot it up we head to the sand bar.Ive seen that group down the margate and agree the music can be loud but boy they look like they are having a good time
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Old 09-05-2012, 11:22 AM   #41
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I decided to brave the weekend massacre and entertain folks from Virginia by giving them thier first tour of the big lake. I am not surprised of the marine patrol presence. All have their blue lights on and busy writing tickets while the boneheads are taking advantage of this and cross my bow and stern at speed within 50 feet. One patrol boat is station outside of the Romney compound 24/7 and I saw another one in Alton Bay in a stationary position aiming a radar gun from the point to the gazebo. A complete waste of resources.

I swing by Braun Bay, it was crowded as usual yet I found the area surprisingly quiet, without the booming rap music. Later I drove by WAM and find it very quiet and civil.

Is it because the college kids are in school?
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Old 09-06-2012, 07:17 AM   #42
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When we were shopping for an island lot in 2004 we looked at one on Sleepers across from the West Alton sandbar. We stayed away because we didnt want to look at it or hear it every weekend. Someone who would buy a lot and build a house right behind it on the mainland has to expect it...
Could not agree more but then you have those with money who think they are going to buy the lot or house then change what has been going on for many many years.
If you want peace and quiet then maybe a big lake isn't the place for you.
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Old 09-06-2012, 07:50 AM   #43
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When we were shopping for an island lot in 2004 we looked at one on Sleepers across from the West Alton sandbar. We stayed away because we didnt want to look at it or hear it every weekend. Someone who would buy a lot and build a house right behind it on the mainland has to expect it...
I totally agree with you. If you buy near a mooring spot you (hopefully)know it when you buy. But I assume it is hard for those who lived in a place before it became a popular mooring spot, if they don't like the noise and activity.
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Old 09-06-2012, 03:39 PM   #44
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The best option is to call the Marine Patrol, they will respond, break up the rafts, do a safety inspection... Asking to turn down the music only invites a confrontation and typically does no good.

The law is in place use it.
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Old 09-06-2012, 03:49 PM   #45
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The best option is to call the Marine Patrol, they will respond, break up the rafts, do a safety inspection... Asking to turn down the music only invites a confrontation and typically does no good.

The law is in place use it.
The problem is no one is breaking the law by playing loud music during the day. Marine Patrol can't do anything about it... Common courtesy and respect for others should prevail but...well you know the rest.

Dan
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Old 09-06-2012, 04:02 PM   #46
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The best option is to call the Marine Patrol, they will respond, break up the rafts, do a safety inspection... Asking to turn down the music only invites a confrontation and typically does no good.

The law is in place use it.
I completely disagree, First you should attemt to solve the problem like intelligent adults, ask, in a decent way, you may be surprised.
In my younger days I had many a party at my home, yes the music got louder as the evening went on, one neighbor, constantly called the local cop, who then came over and asked us to turn the music down, we did no arguments. We didn't realize how loud it had gotten. I finally went to the neighbor my self and asked them to please just come over and ask us to quiet down, that there was no reason to keep bothering the chief. There response was that they were afraid they would get told to go ____ them selves. I explained that if they came over and asked they would have no problems, but if they came over screaming and swearing like idiots then they would probably be treated in kind.
The end result, was that they would stop by and ask us to quiet down, they even ocasionally had a drink or 2 with us.
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Old 09-07-2012, 02:47 AM   #47
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The best option is to call the Marine Patrol, they will respond, break up the rafts, do a safety inspection... Asking to turn down the music only invites a confrontation and typically does no good.

The law is in place use it.
Break up what rafts? It's actually quite rare to see boats tied together on Winni and is much more the exception than the rule.

Based on your post, I have to question if your goal is reduce noise or to discourage other boaters from using the lake (a public body of water) via heavy handed actions by the Marine Patrol?

Luckily for the most part the MP has not acted heavy handed but if they did, I think it would actually work counter too your goal. If MP starts looking for every tiny infraction it would not be long before the backlash started.

That same guy you want to sweep away also paid for his boat, slip, hotels, registration, etc.
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Old 09-13-2012, 02:26 PM   #48
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Go to any sand bar, East cove etc, even though there are no rafting rules there are plenty of times when more than two boats are rafted up. If you can't see that I question your fitness to be on the lake.

Strictly reduce the noise caused by music would be my desire, boat traffic doesn't bother me, so you need not parse. Nice try though.

I also pay those fees, do I not have the right to peaceful enjoyment?


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Break up what rafts? It's actually quite rare to see boats tied together on Winni and is much more the exception than the rule.

Based on your post, I have to question if your goal is reduce noise or to discourage other boaters from using the lake (a public body of water) via heavy handed actions by the Marine Patrol?

Luckily for the most part the MP has not acted heavy handed but if they did, I think it would actually work counter too your goal. If MP starts looking for every tiny infraction it would not be long before the backlash started.

That same guy you want to sweep away also paid for his boat, slip, hotels, registration, etc.
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Old 09-13-2012, 03:15 PM   #49
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I completely disagree, First you should attemt to solve the problem like intelligent adults, ask, in a decent way, you may be surprised.
In my younger days I had many a party at my home, yes the music got louder as the evening went on, one neighbor, constantly called the local cop, who then came over and asked us to turn the music down, we did no arguments. We didn't realize how loud it had gotten. I finally went to the neighbor my self and asked them to please just come over and ask us to quiet down, that there was no reason to keep bothering the chief. There response was that they were afraid they would get told to go ____ them selves. I explained that if they came over and asked they would have no problems, but if they came over screaming and swearing like idiots then they would probably be treated in kind.
The end result, was that they would stop by and ask us to quiet down, they even ocasionally had a drink or 2 with us.
If people do not have the common sense to keep the voulme down and be courteous, then I think it unlikely they would welcome the conversation around reducing the volume, nor do they derserve the conversation.

Interesting to note you rely on others to curtail your own behavior.
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Old 09-13-2012, 03:19 PM   #50
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The problem is no one is breaking the law by playing loud music during the day. Marine Patrol can't do anything about it... Common courtesy and respect for others should prevail but...well you know the rest.

Dan
There are noise and public disturbance stautues in place to protect public places. MP has confirmed and can enforce them.
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Old 09-13-2012, 07:18 PM   #51
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Lightbulb

I would think if you just waded on over, introduced yourself, complimented his stereo & music (ya know, small talk)..THEN..tell him about your 1 year-old niece, who is FINALLY napping up-under the bow.. Bet he turns it down pronto. Without even asking him to..
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Old 09-13-2012, 10:59 PM   #52
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If people do not have the common sense to keep the voulme down and be courteous, then I think it unlikely they would welcome the conversation around reducing the volume, nor do they derserve the conversation.

Interesting to note you rely on others to curtail your own behavior.
If ya actually read and /or understood what I wrote I said "in my younger days" and when ya have a groug of 20-or more young folks hangin out, havin a few beers/cocktails, you don't always realize as the time goes by that over the course of the evening that the music was getting louder, ya know one person walks by the stereo n likes the tune thats on so they turn it up a little, then someone else does the same and so on and so on, ya know STUFF happens.
And after the chat I had with the neighbor they would stop over or call, and we would quiet things down NO PROBLEM.
I can see you don't understand how things should work, and quite often do here in the country, sounds more like yer used to the way flatlanders do things, get the GOV to run everyones life to make YOU happy
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Old 09-14-2012, 02:18 AM   #53
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There are noise and public disturbance stautues in place to protect public places. MP has confirmed and can enforce them.
Once you have a MP officer try and write a summons for what they would need to "enforce" it becomes a criminal complaint. That ups the ante and is why a radio being too loud can't just be some subjective criteria or it will get bounced before it ever passes go. Just the wind blowing can change how little or much you hear of a radio.

So what about the radio a property owner has on their dock that I can hear from my boat, want to nail them too? I'm hate when some guy puts the radio up too loud but I'm also willing to go ask them to turn it down. It's all in how you ask. MP has some leeway but when they cross the threshold to write a summons, they have to have articulation that is very, very hard to support in court. If they fills the courts with too many of these types of cases the judges and prosecutor won't look too kindly.

As to your other post, you said, "The best option is to call the Marine Patrol, they will respond, break up the rafts, do a safety inspection..."

So if your goal is "peace and quiet" then why the safety inspection? You've been called out and I'm calling a spade a spade. You want MP to harass anyone that doesn't do as you want. Welcome to reality

As for "rafts", sorry but they are just not that prevalent and being tied together does not equate to loud music. What you want is to limit people's ability to socialize and congregate and now you're stepping on to constitutional grounds.
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Old 09-14-2012, 12:11 PM   #54
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If ya actually read and /or understood what I wrote I said "in my younger days" and when ya have a groug of 20-or more young folks hangin out, havin a few beers/cocktails, you don't always realize as the time goes by that over the course of the evening that the music was getting louder, ya know one person walks by the stereo n likes the tune thats on so they turn it up a little, then someone else does the same and so on and so on, ya know STUFF happens.
And after the chat I had with the neighbor they would stop over or call, and we would quiet things down NO PROBLEM.
I can see you don't understand how things should work, and quite often do here in the country, sounds more like yer used to the way flatlanders do things, get the GOV to run everyones life to make YOU happy
Sorry Grandpa, I just do not see it as my reasponsiblity to have babysit your ilk. I read what you wrote and understand. Stuff happens, is the last resort of someone who is not in control of a situation. The way things should work is people don't create the issue in the first place, it's called root cause.
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Old 09-14-2012, 12:25 PM   #55
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Sorry Grandpa, I just do not see it as my reasponsiblity to have babysit your ilk. I read what you wrote and understand. Stuff happens, is the last resort of someone who is not in control of a situation. The way things should work is people don't create the issue in the first place, it's called root cause.
So who are you? Your posts seem very familiar to another person....

During the day, a "loud" radio from a boat isn't going to be enforced. You may want it to be, but welcome to the real world of dealing with other people.

The lake is a public place. Maybe I'll get a loud anti speed limit song and blast it and call it political speach. Where do you live?
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Old 09-14-2012, 12:50 PM   #56
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Once you have a MP officer try and write a summons for what they would need to "enforce" it becomes a criminal complaint. That ups the ante and is why a radio being too loud can't just be some subjective criteria or it will get bounced before it ever passes go. Just the wind blowing can change how little or much you hear of a radio.

So what about the radio a property owner has on their dock that I can hear from my boat, want to nail them too? I'm hate when some guy puts the radio up too loud but I'm also willing to go ask them to turn it down. It's all in how you ask. MP has some leeway but when they cross the threshold to write a summons, they have to have articulation that is very, very hard to support in court. If they fills the courts with too many of these types of cases the judges and prosecutor won't look too kindly.

As to your other post, you said, "The best option is to call the Marine Patrol, they will respond, break up the rafts, do a safety inspection..."

MP harassing people is in reality protecting the rights of others who themselves harassing people. People can congregate and socialize all they want, rafting is prohibited, (constitutional grounds is a joke) for safety reasons (i.e. broken neck evacuation in Braun Bay). Rafting typically causes things to escalate and Grandpa loses track of his volume...

MP are very reasonable in how they approach this, I think they are aware of the constitutional boundaries.

I am only asking that MP enforce the existing laws and allow my peace. I am not sure you are calling me out on anything other than disagreeing with you.

So if your goal is "peace and quiet" then why the safety inspection? You've been called out and I'm calling a spade a spade. You want MP to harass anyone that doesn't do as you want. Welcome to reality

As for "rafts", sorry but they are just not that prevalent and being tied together does not equate to loud music. What you want is to limit people's ability to socialize and congregate and now you're stepping on to constitutional grounds.
What you refer to as MP harassing people is in reality protecting the rights of others who themselves are being harassed by the loud music. People can congregate and socialize all they want, rafting is prohibited, (constitutional grounds notwithstanding) for safety reasons (i.e. broken neck evacuation in Braun Bay). Rafting typically causes things to escalate and Grandpa loses track of his volume...

MP are very reasonable in how they approach this, they are aware of the constitutional boundaries.

I am only asking that MP enforce the existing laws and allow my peace. I am not sure you are calling me out on anything other than disagreeing with you, but if it makes you feel smart, so be it, I am called out.
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Old 09-14-2012, 01:19 PM   #57
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Rafting is only prohibited in certain areas, it's perfectly legal to raft in front of the Margate.

I don't think rafting laws are a constitutional issues. Basically they restrict parking (for boats) in a public park. People have the inalienable right to congregate, boats do not.

Do you really think rafting has anything to do with some poor soul breaking his neck in Braun Bay?

So if someone is rafted up in front of the Margate in broad daylight with the music blasting. When the MP get there what will they do? They can ask you to disperse or turn the music down but absent a real danger, they can't arrest anyone.

No crime is being commited. Being a loud jerk is not a crime. Rafting there is no crime, loud music during the day is no crime.
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Old 09-14-2012, 02:56 PM   #58
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Sorry Grandpa, I just do not see it as my reasponsiblity to have babysit your ilk. I read what you wrote and understand. Stuff happens, is the last resort of someone who is not in control of a situation. The way things should work is people don't create the issue in the first place, it's called root cause.
Ilk?? Nice

Rafting has nothing to do with broken necks, loud music, excessive partying etc. A group of friends and I regularly raft in Moultonborough Bay, sometimes 6 or 7 boats. We have never had or caused an issue.
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Old 09-14-2012, 04:00 PM   #59
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Default Rafting cause broken necks?

That's a good one! right on the line with speed cause mayhem on the lake.

Maybe we should pass a law that seat belts are required when rafting so that we don't break our necks!
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Old 09-14-2012, 09:28 PM   #60
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Sorry Grandpa, I just do not see it as my reasponsiblity to have babysit your ilk. I read what you wrote and understand. Stuff happens, is the last resort of someone who is not in control of a situation. The way things should work is people don't create the issue in the first place, it's called root cause.
Gosh Bucktail, "Babysit" really???? It must be just so awsome being as perfect as you seem to think you are. As I said, all it generally would take is a decent person to simply make a reasonable, rational request in an adult manner, and things would be solved like adults n gentlemen. Instead of your "ILK" acting like typical flatlanders n trying to bully everyone to do as you want by calling in law enforcement unnecessarily.
This is NH, Live n Let Live or move south of the line to the Nanny state where that attitude is so prevalent.
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Old 09-14-2012, 10:04 PM   #61
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Rafting is only prohibited in certain areas, it's perfectly legal to raft in front of the Margate.

I don't think rafting laws are a constitutional issues. Basically they restrict parking (for boats) in a public park. People have the inalienable right to congregate, boats do not.

Do you really think rafting has anything to do with some poor soul breaking his neck in Braun Bay?

So if someone is rafted up in front of the Margate in broad daylight with the music blasting. When the MP get there what will they do? They can ask you to disperse or turn the music down but absent a real danger, they can't arrest anyone.

No crime is being commited. Being a loud jerk is not a crime. Rafting there is no crime, loud music during the day is no crime.
jrc, when rafting rules are written such that they forbid people access to public areas (ergo, 150 ft no anchor from shore even for a single boat) it absolutely is a constitutional issuse. I was lining up to sue the state and my wife all but put the lid on it. Once I start a fight, I'm all in and she knew it

Look at it this way. If rafting promotes "safety" and "water quality" improvement then why do they exist only in certain areas.

The challenge is courts side with States. Most likely the case would go to the NH Supreme court after lower court sides with the State. Long battle to wage. I pull no punches here, trsut me when I tell you I was THIIIISSS close to going forward with it.
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Old 09-15-2012, 08:29 PM   #62
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So who are you? Your posts seem very familiar to another person....

During the day, a "loud" radio from a boat isn't going to be enforced. You may want it to be, but welcome to the real world of dealing with other people.

The lake is a public place. Maybe I'll get a loud anti speed limit song and blast it and call it political speach. Where do you live?
Happy to meet up for a beer and introduce myself and quibble, just send a private note. Or do you want to harass me in my domicile, you may want to show restraint or the moderator will step-in. I have never posted under another name.

It is enforced, i know form personal experience.

I have NO issues with fast boats, i advocate strongly against the speed limit and vote. If you want to blast your song have at. I will dial the MP.

You are right it is public hence, should i not be allowed to peaceful enjoyment that the tax dollars I pay afford?
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Old 09-15-2012, 08:37 PM   #63
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Gosh Bucktail, "Babysit" really???? It must be just so awsome being as perfect as you seem to think you are. As I said, all it generally would take is a decent person to simply make a reasonable, rational request in an adult manner, and things would be solved like adults n gentlemen. Instead of your "ILK" acting like typical flatlanders n trying to bully everyone to do as you want by calling in law enforcement unnecessarily.
This is NH, Live n Let Live or move south of the line to the Nanny state where that attitude is so prevalent.
Not a Flatlander, why would it matter? I realize i am not perfect but I am circumspect. Again, you have your narrow point of view, I feel I should not have to confront people to turn music down, they should have enough self awareness and restraint, if not i dial, my tax dollars at work.

BTW what would you call having to tell someone what to do, it's babysitting.
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Old 09-15-2012, 08:41 PM   #64
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Ilk?? Nice

Rafting has nothing to do with broken necks, loud music, excessive partying etc. A group of friends and I regularly raft in Moultonborough Bay, sometimes 6 or 7 boats. We have never had or caused an issue.
Rafting impedes the ability to respsond in an emergency, hence the 25 ft rule between boats.

Sorry for the ambiguity, i will try to be more clear in the future.
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Old 09-15-2012, 08:45 PM   #65
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That's a good one! right on the line with speed cause mayhem on the lake.

Maybe we should pass a law that seat belts are required when rafting so that we don't break our necks!

run fast, run safe. Raft where legal
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Old 09-15-2012, 08:50 PM   #66
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Old 09-15-2012, 08:56 PM   #67
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Not a Flatlander, why would it matter? I realize i am not perfect but I am circumspect. Again, you have your narrow point of view, I feel I should not have to confront people to turn music down, they should have enough self awareness and restraint, if not i dial, my tax dollars at work.

BTW what would you call having to tell someone what to do, it's babysitting.
Sorry fella but you IS a Flatlander, ya see Flatlander is a "STATE OF MIND"(Attitude) not a State of birth, and your attitude is PURE FLATLANDER

Whining to the gov and expecting them to do everything for you to make you feel all safe, happy n fuzzy = Flatlander.

and as far as "telling" someone what to do goes, that is also part of the Flatlander attitude, ASKING SOMEONE TO DO/NOT DO something is is the way rational adults handle things.


HAVE A NICE ONE
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Old 09-16-2012, 07:19 AM   #68
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Rafting impedes the ability to respsond in an emergency, hence the 25 ft rule between boats.

Sorry for the ambiguity, i will try to be more clear in the future.
Seriously? I have never once heard anyone state that rafting is a safety issue. This to me is a huge stretch. Impeding the ability to respond to an emergency?

Rafting is banned in certain areas because of peoples complaints.
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Old 09-16-2012, 10:16 AM   #69
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Exclamation

Although rafting on Winni is "tame" compared to Lake Havasu, LOTO, Florida, etc..

BT makes a good point about maneuvering around a flotilla of boats and anchor lines to get to an emergency. It CAN be problematic.

Most of the gripes seem to be petty, and easily resolved without resorting to getting "the Law" involved. A friendly conversation with the stereo guy would probably have resolved "the Issue", and this thread probably wouldn't be here.

There are certainly more important "infractions & offenses" that occur on "the Lake" than a loud stereo at a public gathering place.

"we're from the government and we're here to help..."
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Old 09-16-2012, 08:40 PM   #70
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Seriously? I have never once heard anyone state that rafting is a safety issue.
Don't dive into the sandbar here

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Old 09-16-2012, 09:52 PM   #71
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APS,

The photo that you posted is good old Jobbie Nooner on Gull Island.

It’s known as the Mardi Gras of the Midwest and the title is well earned. With thousands of revelers congregating on Gull Island, Lake St. Clair every year, this wild event is a Detroit favorite.

If you enjoy rafting, then take a trip to this one:


http://www.muscamoot-bay.com/Jobbie-Nooner.html
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Old 09-17-2012, 04:25 PM   #72
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Default Lake Norman

Has the biggest rafting flotilla recorded in Guiness Book of World Records at one time. Lake Winni is an angel compared to the parties on that NC lake. Even the NASCAR drivers pitched in!

Lake Havasu is something else. Ever attend spring break in Copper Canyon
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Old 09-17-2012, 05:23 PM   #73
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Don't dive into the sandbar here
Sorry, I should have been more clear. I never knew that rafting was a safety issue in New Hampshire.
I am 100% certain that the picture you posted is not of Lake Winni. And I am also 99.999% certain that there are no areas on Winni that would have that kind of a crowd. Even Braun Bay at its most crowded does not pose a problem if there were an emergency.
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Old 09-18-2012, 04:28 AM   #74
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BH, the guy (I know who he is) who lives in the white dumpy camp has often got out in his kayak and attempts to "enforce" the 150 markers by telling people in boats to leave. The shoreline is not striaght and often he's actually wrong as to where the 150 ft line is. However, for a citizen to be acting in a way to enforce a boating rule is harassment.
The Marine Patrol Auxiliary would be a good and fair enforcer: too bad they've been left out in the cold.

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I can tell you right now if he EVER tells anyone on my vessel to move I can assure you the court battles and restraininhg order will be filed. I'm "that guy" that he never wants to mess with

Trust me when I tell you that I was veeeeeerrry close to filing a lawsuit (also helps to have a lawyer in the family who agrees that the rafting rules are ripe for a legal challenge.
Crossing the state line, the state of New Hampshire once requested of drivers to be "civil", saying,

Quote:
“Drive with courtesy, It's the New Hampshire Way!.
How quaint!

Yes, I'd say New Hampshire is definitely ripe for big-city lawyering.

BTW:
Here is a Lake Norman raft-up—where you don't drink the water!

Yes, the brown area is the crowded sandbar...

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Old 09-18-2012, 04:18 PM   #75
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Default Sandbar vehicle

I wonder who has jurisdction, marine patrol or state police?
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Old 09-18-2012, 04:28 PM   #76
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Default Lake Norman vs lake Clair

This will give you an idea of the competition between the two lakes as who is the rafting king. So far, Lake Norman at 944 boats!

http://www.partyboating.com/Articles...icle.asp?id=55
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Old 09-18-2012, 10:51 PM   #77
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[QUOTE=Acres per Second;191080]The Marine Patrol Auxiliary would be a good and fair enforcer: too bad they've been left out in the cold.

Crossing the state line, the state of New Hampshire once requested of drivers to be "civil", saying,


How quaint!

Yes, I'd say New Hampshire is definitely ripe for big-city lawyering.

APS, the motions are already in place such that I will be a NH resident once again. Unlike you I'll be a full time resident too.

I fully believe that the NH rafting rule, as written, is unconstitutional.

A lawsuit is the only way to preserve the rights of the public to use the lake.
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