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Old 06-08-2011, 05:04 PM   #1
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Default Temporary Boating Certificate Change

Safe Boaters of New Hampshire

“To promote safety through education and legislation that works”

http://www.SBONH.ORG


In Water Evaluation helps to improve Temporary Boating Certificate for Boat Rentals



For Immediate Release



Safe Boaters of New Hampshire is proud to announce the filing of a new bill to improve safety on all New Hampshire’s waterways. Rep. John Hikel of Goffstown filed a bill amending the states “Temporary Boating Certificate” to include an in water evaluation.



Currently all boaters in New Hampshire must take a boating safety class and a proctored exam to obtain a life time boating certificate. These certificates have been paramount in increasing awareness and educating the boating public. Since their inception NH has achieved the best boating safety record in New England according to the US Coast Guard.



To allow for beginners and out of state tourists to experience the thrill of boating in NH, they can obtain a temporary safety certificate from licensed marinas. While this has been a controversial issue regarding inexperienced boaters, the temporary certificates have been crucial to marinas that rely on boat rentals as a significant part of their yearly income.



While many states also require some type of safety certificates, which are reciprocal in the state of New Hampshire, many states do not require such a license. In many instances this temporary certificate allows these experienced boaters to rent a boat while vacationing in NH without having to spend an entire day in a classroom.



The current Temporary License can be obtained one time only in a calendar year and is good for 14 days. The multiple choice test is administered by certified marinas and personnel. If the individual fails they cannot retake the test for 24 hours.



However while this procedure tests a person’s understanding of the rules of the water, it does not test a person’s ability to pilot a boat. The change requested on behalf of Safe Boaters of New Hampshire asks that a certified individual renting the boat also do an in water evaluation to make sure renters are competent to safely boat on New Hampshire’s Lakes and waterways. Many reputable marinas already conduct this practice and SBONH feels it should be uniform for all marinas to do the same.



This new law should improve safety of inexperienced boaters on the lake as well as the general boating public. This will help ensure that individuals are not putting themselves, their passengers or other boaters around them at risk.
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Old 06-08-2011, 07:11 PM   #2
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I never quite grasped this "temporary safety" certificate, concept. After 14 days do they revert to idiots?

While I enjoyed the class, most of the people there could have passed the test without it. If you have the knowledge to pass the test it's not going to fade any quicker after 14 days than if you had one 8 hour, or two 4 hour classroom sessions. Passing the test should (imo) get you the card and that's the end of it.

Eventually there might be practicum or retesting requirement but a "temporary" certification should only be until you get the permanent version mailed to you.
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Old 06-08-2011, 07:24 PM   #3
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It is easy to take pot shots at temporary certificates. However the relevant question is "will this bill make things better". The answer to that is obviously YES!

Congratulations to SBONH for sponsoring this legislation.
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Old 06-08-2011, 08:29 PM   #4
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It is easy to take pot shots at temporary certificates. However the relevant question is "will this bill make things better". The answer to that is obviously YES!

Congratulations to SBONH for sponsoring this legislation.
Thank you. Personally I would support on water testing for all boaters.
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Old 06-09-2011, 08:54 AM   #5
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Thank you. Personally I would support on water testing for all boaters.
I support it as well, but do have a question.
Who is expected to be the tester of the on water testing? That is who would administer the test and when?

If we expect state of NH resources to do this (especially MP with an already thinner budget), this is going to be a difficult bill to get passed.
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Old 06-09-2011, 09:16 AM   #6
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I support it as well, but do have a question.
Who is expected to be the tester of the on water testing? That is who would administer the test and when?

If we expect state of NH resources to do this (especially MP with an already thinner budget), this is going to be a difficult bill to get passed.
Sounds like the fox will be guarding the hen house. It appears that the marina will be administering the test.
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Old 06-09-2011, 12:33 PM   #7
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I support it as well, but do have a question.
Who is expected to be the tester of the on water testing? That is who would administer the test and when?

If we expect state of NH resources to do this (especially MP with an already thinner budget), this is going to be a difficult bill to get passed.
My question was answered elsewhere. I was thinking that the on-water evaluation would apply to all boating certificates, where in actuality it only applies to the temporary certificates. Therefore, the marina would be doing it.

Chimi, in some cases yes the fox would be guarding the hen house. However, if a marina operator gave a crap about their boats/equipment, it would be in their best interest to ensure that the renter knew what they were doing.
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Old 06-09-2011, 01:22 PM   #8
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My question was answered elsewhere. I was thinking that the on-water evaluation would apply to all boating certificates, where in actuality it only applies to the temporary certificates. Therefore, the marina would be doing it.

Chimi, in some cases yes the fox would be guarding the hen house. However, if a marina operator gave a crap about their boats/equipment, it would be in their best interest to ensure that the renter knew what they were doing.
I suspect that the boats/equipment are covered by insurance or would be the ultimate responsibility of the renter (I've never rented a boat so I don't know what the boilerplate looks like on the rental form). Regardless, I doubt very much that the marina is going to turn away a substantial rental fee no matter what.
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Old 06-10-2011, 07:07 AM   #9
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Why would the marina's care they have insurance and on top of that they will be the one to fix the damages and make more $........... win win....... or should I say " duh winning "
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Old 06-10-2011, 09:18 AM   #10
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I don't believe a Marina would deliberately let an unqualified renter out on the lake to potentially harm themselves are others for that matter, particularly after an in-water test. I do not know what the rental form says, but if I were to be seriously injured by a renter's boat, I would have my attorney look at the marina's culpibilty if they let an obviously unqualified renter out on the lake.
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Old 06-12-2011, 05:59 AM   #11
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It is easy to take pot shots at temporary certificates. However the relevant question is "will this bill make things better". The answer to that is obviously YES!
1) For a test that everybody passes, how does this proposed legislation "make things better"?

2) We've been repeatedly warned how dangerous renters, sailboats and kayaks have become in this last decade—yet the rental of sailboats and kayaks are entirely exempted from in-water testing!


...but maybe—not for much longer!...
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Old 06-13-2011, 12:44 PM   #12
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1) For a test that everybody passes, how does this proposed legislation "make things better"?

2) We've been repeatedly warned how dangerous renters, sailboats and kayaks have become in this last decade—yet the rental of sailboats and kayaks are entirely exempted from in-water testing!


...but maybe—not for much longer!...
Like I said it's easy to take pot shots at temporary certificates.

Temporary certificates are a bad idea in my opinion. But that is NOT the question here. Getting ride of these certificates has been tried and failed. So what do we do now?

The reasonable answer is to tighten up the certificate process, make them harder to get and give the boater some in the water training.

The irresponsible answer is to fight this legislation because it doesn't go as far as we would wish.

The world is not black and white. Sometimes you have to compromise and except a small victory. Then hope for a bigger victory in the future.
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Old 06-24-2011, 06:11 AM   #13
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The irresponsible answer is to fight this legislation because it doesn't go as far as we would wish. The world is not black and white. Sometimes you have to compromise and except a small victory. Then hope for a bigger victory in the future.
But this won't be "a victory": perhaps I can convince you of that.

1) Tuesday, a rental boat pulled up next door. It had five men aboard—all in "Island Maintenance" tee-shirts. Wouldn't "in-water training" pose a costly and unnecessary impediment to Winnipesaukee's maintenance businesses?

(Especially as more than one member of an "Island Maintenance" boating crew should be tested and qualified).

2) When just one day of renting is very costly, does no renter get a "free pass" in such changeable weather as we have here?


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Like I said it's easy to take pot shots at temporary certificates.
Yes, it is!

We're into our second day of a cold and drizzly rain, and tomorrow looks no better —how does "in-water-testing" work for that five-man crew in their rental boat?


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The reasonable answer is to tighten up the certificate process, make them harder to get and give the boater some in the water training.
In this, we can agree.

Too many boaters have no clue regarding the other types of watercraft on the lake: depending on how it's structured, in-water training could fix that. We need to be serious about certifications—the U.S. model of today has proven inadequate—IMO. The UK has the ultimate model for certification, but you've seen organized resistance from Winnipesaukee boaters:




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Temporary certificates are a bad idea in my opinion. But that is NOT the question here. Getting ride of these certificates has been tried and failed. So what do we do now?
Use the system they have in the UK—demonstrate one's total "in-water" competence—easy, peasy.
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Old 06-24-2011, 10:18 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Acres per Second View Post
But this won't be "a victory": perhaps I can convince you of that.

1) Tuesday, a rental boat pulled up next door. It had five men aboard—all in "Island Maintenance" tee-shirts. Wouldn't "in-water training" pose a costly and unnecessary impediment to Winnipesaukee's maintenance businesses?

(Especially as more than one member of an "Island Maintenance" boating crew should be tested and qualified).

2) When just one day of renting is very costly, does no renter get a "free pass" in such changeable weather as we have here?


Yes, it is!

We're into our second day of a cold and drizzly rain, and tomorrow looks no better —how does "in-water-testing" work for that five-man crew in their rental boat?


Use the system they have in the UK—demonstrate one's total "in-water" competence—easy, peasy.
Perhaps they just need to call you APS, and you can give the people you want a pass. Everyone else needs to begin a lengthy certification process, and learn how to sail. There has been "organized resistance" Against many things. Rafting, speeds over 45 mph, mandatory certificates for all boaters, tougher requirements for testing, more enforcement money. You name it. The vast majority of that opposition came from those safety-minded folks that brought you the SL

Now you, the ultimate authority on speeds and boating behavior, not to mention noise, want to give a pass to those you want to, but make other not only have on water instruction, but learn how to sail? There's just no end to your need for preferential treatment is there?
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Old 06-24-2011, 11:09 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acres per Second View Post
1) Tuesday, a rental boat pulled up next door. It had five men aboard—all in "Island Maintenance" tee-shirts. Wouldn't "in-water training" pose a costly and unnecessary impediment to Winnipesaukee's maintenance businesses?
If somebody is employed to do regular maintenance in or around the islands on Winni, where boating is required to do said job and a boating certificate is required to operate a boat, wouldn't it make sense to just have said maintenance worker sit through the class and get a permanent certificate?

I'm pretty sure you spent all week preparing, parsing, bolding and editing your post, but it falls short of the brilliance we've come to get from you...or MOT....or Taq....
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Old 06-24-2011, 11:18 AM   #16
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Default Bear Island Maintenance

I remember a while back a Metrocast crew going to Bear Island for an install capsize in very small boat. According to marine patrol they had too much equipment and too many people for the size boat. The mp did not say someone had a certificate nor did the mp say the boat was rented.

Obviously someone did not have the proper training or knowledge of boating. In-water testing would have avoided such disasters.
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Old 06-24-2011, 11:58 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Acres per Second View Post
Too many boaters have no clue regarding the other types of watercraft on the lake: depending on how it's structured, in-water training could fix that. We need to be serious about certifications—the U.S. model of today has proven inadequate—IMO. The UK has the ultimate model for certification, but you've seen organized resistance from Winnipesaukee boaters: [/FONT]





Use the system they have in the UK—demonstrate one's total "in-water" competence—easy, peasy.
I am in full support of in water testing, but only for boat types they want to operate. Regarding your example of demonstrating proficiency in a sailboat, it would be the same concept as a driver's license (test for your class of vehicle). I have a Class A CDL and a motorcycle endorsement and had to road test in/on each vehicle type. If I want to drive a school bus, I need a different test.
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Old 06-24-2011, 12:11 PM   #18
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I am in full support of in water testing, but only for boat types they want to operate. Regarding your example of demonstrating proficiency in a sailboat, it would be the same concept as a driver's license (test for your class of vehicle). I have a Class A CDL and a motorcycle endorsement and had to road test in/on each vehicle type. If I want to drive a school bus, I need a different test.
I have pretty much the same indorsements. I have a certificate from the 'Top Gun' school in Aventura Fl. I also have an SCCA certifcate and love to race at NHMS as well as Lime Rock, Watkins Glen. A special treat was an SCCA sanctioned race at Trois-Rivières a number of years ago. The French Canadians are a crazy bunch!

I am in full support of on-hands testing regardless of vehicles or whether you are renting for a day or driving for fun.
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Old 06-27-2011, 03:34 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VitaBene View Post
I am in full support of in water testing, but only for boat types they want to operate. Regarding your example of demonstrating proficiency in a sailboat, it would be the same concept as a driver's license (test for your class of vehicle). I have a Class A CDL and a motorcycle endorsement and had to road test in/on each vehicle type. If I want to drive a school bus, I need a different test.

We in the boating community operate in a watery environment that is highly changeable—rocky and deep, oftentimes cold and dark, with the constant danger of drowning—that is non-existent on roadways. That peril means we check the weather, monitor the airwaves, call-in enforcement when necessary, and depend on other boaters for our mutual safety.

In that sense of community, we wave to one another in assurance.

Knowing exactly how each type of craft operates can make the difference between "a rescue" and "a rescue gone-wrong".
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