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Old 07-05-2008, 12:42 PM   #1
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Default 2 face charges for running snowmobiles on lake

I couldn't decide where this belongs...I know it can't go under speed limit because there are no speed limits for snowmobiles...so I put it here. Maybe we need a new listing....Boneheads!

Think this will show up on YouTube? Click HERE to see what I'm talking about but do it soon, it's from Boston dot com and I don't know how long it will remain there!

So, does he need a boating certificate?
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Old 07-05-2008, 02:41 PM   #2
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Here is a WMUR link.
http://www.wmur.com/news/16796286/detail.html
I imagine that many charges can and will be leveled but the scary part is the danger they may have put others in.
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Old 07-05-2008, 03:54 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Slickcraft View Post
Here is a WMUR link.
http://www.wmur.com/news/16796286/detail.html
I imagine that many charges can and will be leveled but the scary part is the danger they may have put others in.
When they go skimming over some open water in spring, they get a head start on some good ice.
Where'd these boneheads get a head start for speeding out on Lake this time of year? Some open grass on land?

The people involved should be listed as never obtain the boating certificate, along with their other fines & penalties!
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Old 07-05-2008, 06:03 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airwaves View Post
I couldn't decide where this belongs...I know it can't go under speed limit because there are no speed limits for snowmobiles...so I put it here. Maybe we need a new listing....Boneheads!

Think this will show up on YouTube? Click HERE to see what I'm talking about but do it soon, it's from Boston dot com and I don't know how long it will remain there!

So, does he need a boating certificate?
Airwaves,

Just wondering, did he ride his Snomobile all the way from Wolfboro?

There is a MAXIMUM Speed Limit on ALL LAND TRAILS of 45 mph. The speed limint for Lakes and other Bodies of Water is that good old "Reasonable and Prudent" phrase.

You know this only kids being kids. They were just having fun.

I checked our clubs database and thank GOD he is not a member.

As for where to put this thread I think it stands alone unto itself.

I you do not mind I would like to post you account of this on the Snomobile folder.

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Old 07-05-2008, 06:16 PM   #5
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I missed the beginning of the video report on WMUR, but there were images of the beach/penninsula by Meredith Moorings Condos and the "yacht club". I saw enough that they must have got a head start on the grass coming down hill from parking and over sand beach and the Lake.

In addition to loosing boating privileges, I hope they loose snow machine registrations. What license is required for snowmobile operations? If any, that ought to be forfeited as well. There are often small children at that beach!!!

That area of Meredith Bay is also a NO WAKE ZONE!!! Look at it on your charts!
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Old 07-05-2008, 07:10 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by WINNOCTURN View Post
Airwaves,

Just wondering, did he ride his Snomobile all the way from Wolfboro?

There is a MAXIMUM Speed Limit on ALL LAND TRAILS of 35mph. The speed limint for Lakes and other Bodies of Water is that good old "Reasonable and Prudent" phrase.

You know this only kids being kids. They were just having fun.

I checked our clubs database and thank GOD he is not a member.

As for where to put this thread I think it stands alone unto itself.

I you do not mind I would like to post you account of this on the Snomobile folder.

WINNOCTURN

I thought the speed limit is 45?
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Old 07-05-2008, 07:19 PM   #7
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Default No Speed Limit On Winni -- Yet!

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I thought the speed limit is 45?
Eric, as of this date there is NO SPEED LIMIT on Winni........ it wouldn't take effect until 1/1/2009 once the bill is signed, putting the law into effect. Although maybe we should just let people THINK there is one in effect.......................
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Old 07-05-2008, 07:23 PM   #8
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Eric, as of this date there is NO SPEED LIMIT on Winni........ it wouldn't take effect until 1/1/2009 once the bill is signed, putting the law into effect. Although maybe we should just let people THINK there is one in effect.......................
I am referring to Winnocurn's reference of snowmobile speed limits on the trails, he mentions 35 but I think it's 45.
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Old 07-05-2008, 07:39 PM   #9
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I can't imagine it. But this is not the first time he has been in trouble. I don't know what is in his head. I feel sorry for his parents.
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Old 07-05-2008, 08:57 PM   #10
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I know this kid from Wolfeboro. He is a newspaper headline waiting to happen. Sad actually. Hopefully he will wake up someday and decide to grow up before he becomes a statistic.
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Old 07-05-2008, 09:06 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricP View Post
I am referring to Winnocurn's reference of snowmobile speed limits on the trails, he mentions 35 but I think it's 45.
EricP,

You are correct. Typo on My part. I have trouble seeing the keys without my glasses.


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Old 07-05-2008, 09:50 PM   #12
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Why is this thread off to discussing speed limits on trails in winter and then speed limits on Lake?

This incident was in a NO WAKE ZONE, in a populated area over land & water.
And in areas where children are most likely unable to protect themselves.

LET'S ALL QUIT SPECULATING AND WATCH THE 11:00PM NEWS.

Thank you.......

Edit: Would one in their right mind drive their jet craft off the Lake over a beach where kids might be working on their sand castles, up the hill to parking lot to put the craft on your trailer? I SINCERELY HOPE NOT. This idiot should not have had his hands on any water (liquid or frozen) craft in this incident!

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Old 07-06-2008, 12:38 AM   #13
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I don't get the reference to children. Why is it any time something "bad" happens the fear mongerers through out some reference to chidlren as if to make the incident seem worthy of death by firing squad? These 2 guys did something very stupid and will pay whatever penalties levied on them, plain and simple. No need to sensationalize things.
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Old 07-06-2008, 07:29 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricP View Post
I don't get the reference to children. Why is it any time something "bad" happens the fear mongerers through out some reference to chidlren as if to make the incident seem worthy of death by firing squad? These 2 guys did something very stupid and will pay whatever penalties levied on them, plain and simple. No need to sensationalize things.
OK, I see your point. I just saw the clip on TV, and I am very familiar with the location as I used to live very near the pictured spot. The witness said down the hill, across the lawn, across the beach and in to Lake, and out 2.5 miles. The beach had people present. As I wrote before, there is a hill down from the parking at Meredith Moorings; there is lawn from there to the beach; there are several boats moored off the beach, which is between the 3-story building and the yacht club docks.

I am quite familiar, as I grew up in a boating family, where we were taught respect for other boaters and the water. My mind has recently been negatively influenced by video on a blog, depicting no clue of the severity of possible accidents by stupid actions concerning safety on the water.

Wish I could figure a way to link to that fellow's video; says he has a MOB (man over board) button on his console, but does not know what happens if he presses the button, when some one falls overboard. Does it throw a flotation device out? Does it take engine out of gear? Does it just sound an alarm? These people have no knowledge.

Sorry, this story has no relation to the stupid actions of these snow machine users on/near the Lake in summer!
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Old 07-06-2008, 09:21 AM   #15
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Actually,it kind of cracked me up.Can you imagine ....hanging out on the beach and a snowmobile flies by.ERICP is right....every time someone wants to exaggerate a point,they refer to the 'poor little children".
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Old 07-06-2008, 06:12 PM   #16
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Default Hard to believe....

Two snow machines spotted in a driveway along Weirs Blvd, as we were proceeding southbound. Not on a trailer, or covered for the off-season.
Almost as if people were intending to attempt a stunt!
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Old 07-06-2008, 07:45 PM   #17
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Default ????

I suppose it would be foolish to wonder if alcohol was involved?
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Old 07-07-2008, 12:38 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally psted by tis
Quote:
Originally posted by Puckster
I know this kid from Wolfeboro. He is a newspaper headline waiting to happen. Sad actually. Hopefully he will wake up someday and decide to grow up before he becomes a statistic.
I can't imagine it. But this is not the first time he has been in trouble. I don't know what is in his head. I feel sorry for his parents.
Correct me if I am wrong, but weren't there TWO snowmobiles involved? One operator was identified but the other was not! Why NOT? Someone related to someone?

So one person was identified
Quote:
a newspaper headline waiting to happen.
Quote:
this is not the first time he has been in trouble. I don't know what is in his head.
But not a word about the second!

Hmmmmmm Makes one wonder doesn't it?

Just for chuckles I looked up the snowmobile regulations...the 45 MPH speed limit is for trails not posted...TRAILS... Since Lake Winnipesaukee is not a trail, even during the winter, then no speed limit applies to snowmobiles. (WINNFABS take note they can operate on the water at unlimited speed endangering summer camps and your islands!)

I thought it was hysterical watching the TV news when this guy in Meredith kept saying over and over again that the snowmobile violated the NO WAKE ZONE! Are you kidding? !!!!!!

Since froggy brought it up a couple of times on the forum I wonder if froggy made his TV debut?

For discussion sake, what will this hoodlum (according to Puckster and tis) from Wolfboro and the unnamed second person actually be charged with that is illegal and will stick in court?
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Old 07-07-2008, 08:10 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAMIAM View Post
Actually,it kind of cracked me up.Can you imagine ....hanging out on the beach and a snowmobile flies by.ERICP is right....every time someone wants to exaggerate a point,they refer to the 'poor little children".
I woulda been laughing my butt off...especially when they sank. Dumba$$es.
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I suppose it would be foolish to wonder if alcohol was involved?
Here, hold my beer, and watch this!
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Old 07-07-2008, 08:11 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airwaves View Post
Correct me if I am wrong, but weren't there TWO snowmobiles involved? One operator was identified but the other was not! Why NOT? Someone related to someone?

SO RIGHT!!!

So one person was identified But not a word about the second!

Hmmmmmm Makes one wonder doesn't it?

I thought it was hysterical watching the TV news when this guy in Meredith kept saying over and over again that the snowmobile violated the NO WAKE ZONE! Are you kidding? !!!!!!

Since froggy brought it up a couple of times on the forum I wonder if froggy made his TV debut?

NO, THE INTERVIEW ON TV WAS NOT ME!

For discussion sake, what will this hoodlum (according to Puckster and tis) from Wolfboro and the unnamed second person actually be charged with that is illegal and will stick in court?
A new perspective! Would a snow machine make a wake? I don't know, but I have long time ago observed the skimming at Weirs in late winter. I really do not recall a wake when it was planing! Interesting thought.

"down the banking, lawn and beach". Go look at site and you will see exactly the route under discussion.

This morning's Citizen article does not discuss any safety issue. Actually a very cursory mention, nothing like Chan 9. YES, no naming of the second person.

I am in Gilford, and plan same Weirs Blvd route, and will try to see if machines are still sitting on asphalt driveway - looking for street number!

I may be overreacting with the nautical issue, but that's what I was taught as a child and young adult in a "yacht club" and sailing environment in an ocean community. I have been in Lake Winni area for 30-ish years and seen such recklessness and lack of respect on Lake; well that's true elsewhere such as ski slopes and highways! Of course there are lots of great people!
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Old 07-07-2008, 09:22 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airwaves View Post
Just for chuckles I looked up the snowmobile regulations...the 45 MPH speed limit is for trails not posted...TRAILS... Since Lake Winnipesaukee is not a trail, even during the winter, then no speed limit applies to snowmobiles.
I'm not sure if this is true or not. If it's true then I'm confused because as I was traveling down Meredith Bay this Winter by snowmobile (doing ~35MPH) I looked to my right and, hiding behind a bobhouse, there was a F&G Warden clocking me and my riding partner with a radar gun.
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Old 07-07-2008, 09:28 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by froggy View Post
A new perspective! Would a snow machine make a wake? I don't know, but I have long time ago observed the skimming at Weirs in late winter. I really do not recall a wake when it was planing! Interesting thought......

I don't think there would be much wake, and headway speed for a snowmobile is probably 30 or 40 mph on water, a good lawyer could probably make the arguement that the snowmobile was at headway speed.
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Old 07-07-2008, 09:33 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hilltopper View Post
I'm not sure if this is true or not. If it's true then I'm confused because as I was traveling down Meredith Bay this Winter by snowmobile (doing ~35MPH) I looked to my right and, hiding behind a bobhouse, there was a F&G Warden clocking me and my riding partner with a radar gun.
As far as I know rules do apply about speed w/in a certain distance of bobhouses.
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Old 07-07-2008, 09:50 AM   #24
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Default I really hope it makes it to Youtube

The Citizen said the MP and F&G didn't believe the two incidents were connected. Now how is it possible that Darwin gifted us with two such inspired individuals on the same day in the same area and they weren't connected?

It's possible the other moron was a juvenile, or that the MP, F&G, and MPD are having so much trouble mentally processing the stupidity that they've lost touch with the media
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Old 07-07-2008, 10:35 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hilltopper View Post
I'm not sure if this is true or not. If it's true then I'm confused because as I was traveling down Meredith Bay this Winter by snowmobile (doing ~35MPH) I looked to my right and, hiding behind a bobhouse, there was a F&G Warden clocking me and my riding partner with a radar gun.
They may have been clocking you, but did you get pulled over and/or a ticket issued? If not, then you were not breaking any rules.
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Old 07-07-2008, 12:34 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by chipj29 View Post
They may have been clocking you, but did you get pulled over and/or a ticket issued? If not, then you were not breaking any rules.
I knew I wasn't breaking any rules. I was under the impression that the lake speed limit was the same as the non-posted trails...45 MPH. I was doing 35 MPH.

Some posters are saying there is no snowmobiling speed limit on the lake and I'm asking that, if this is true, why are they hiding behind bobhouses with radar guns?
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Old 07-07-2008, 07:52 PM   #27
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So...it's very clear. These poor kids did not violate ANY laws.The did not create a wake and they did not excede the speed limit since they were not on a trail.We need Harvey Garod on this one........or maybe, even, Chuck Douglas.......Leave those kids alone!!!
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Old 07-07-2008, 08:08 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAMIAM View Post
So...it's very clear. These poor kids did not violate ANY laws.The did not create a wake and they did not excede the speed limit since they were not on a trail.We need Harvey Garod on this one........or maybe, even, Chuck Douglas.......Leave those kids alone!!!
There is a law and a fine against skimming.
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Old 07-07-2008, 09:23 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hilltopper View Post
I knew I wasn't breaking any rules. I was under the impression that the lake speed limit was the same as the non-posted trails...45 MPH. I was doing 35 MPH.

Some posters are saying there is no snowmobiling speed limit on the lake and I'm asking that, if this is true, why are they hiding behind bobhouses with radar guns?
The speed limit is 10mph when within 150' of bobhouses or open fishing holes.
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Old 07-08-2008, 06:13 AM   #30
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Default Maybe this was a practice run

This was posted 3 weeks ago..

Maybe a practice run, or inspiration , for the snowmobile stunt.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YB12xxQBIU
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Old 07-08-2008, 08:24 AM   #31
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You missed the point,Lakegeezer......that was a tongue-in-cheek reply....just kidding
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Old 07-08-2008, 04:40 PM   #32
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Default Boneheads? NO-Idiots

Quote:
Originally Posted by Airwaves View Post
I couldn't decide where this belongs...I know it can't go under speed limit because there are no speed limits for snowmobiles...so I put it here. Maybe we need a new listing....Boneheads!

Think this will show up on YouTube? Click HERE to see what I'm talking about but do it soon, it's from Boston dot com and I don't know how long it will remain there!

So, does he need a boating certificate?
"Boneheads" are folks who don't use good judgement? "Idiots" on the other hand are folks who use snow mobiles on open water!!!

Tank
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Old 07-08-2008, 05:23 PM   #33
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At a minimum, would these two mensa standouts have broken the rules regarding polluting the lake - snowmobiles still run on gas and have oil in the crankcase don't they? Wouldn't they have leaked some of either or both into the lake when they sank to the bottom? If I spill a dop of gas during refueling, I am in big trouble if the MP finds out, so why would this be different.
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Old 07-08-2008, 05:36 PM   #34
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Default Under the "RIGHT" Circomstances?

Tank151

Either definition fits the two Bozos.

Under a controlled situation it goes from Skimming to what is known as Water Cross and it is an organized "SPORT".

Take a look at this link and you maybe surprised what a Snowmobile can do under a skilled rider and a controlled environment.

www.ewaracing.com

Water Cross Vidio
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJGXm35z9AM

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Old 07-10-2008, 01:37 PM   #35
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Default wake or no wake

To wake or not to wake that is the question? If you take a piece of wood and push it ever so slowly across the surface of the water, what you see behind it is a wake. You take a snowmobile across that water it also will make a wake. So if that person is doing more than the speed limit allows in a no wake zone no matter what he is driving he/she is in violation of the law!

Was the operator of these snowmobiles a blonde by any chance?
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Old 07-10-2008, 06:50 PM   #36
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Didn't someone cross 175 mile wide Lake Huron, back in 1978, going from Michigan to Ontario. That's probably the all-time Canadian skimming record. Those Canadians, are way good, aye?

Got to wonder if the recent Meredith Bay skimmer now holds the unofficial skimming record for Lake Winnipesaukee? He did pretty good, going maybe two miles in July which is the equivalent of 12 miles in January because the water is much less dense..
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Old 07-10-2008, 09:39 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally psted by John A. Birdsall
You take a snowmobile across that water it also will make a wake. So if that person is doing more than the speed limit allows in a no wake zone no matter what he is driving he/she is in violation of the law!
Without making me look it up, doesn't No Wake, requiring Headway Speed, also mean a headway speed is a speed that is a minimum speed to maintain control your vessel?

So if 6MPH is too slow to maintain control of your vessel then you can go faster to maintain control?

In other words, if a snowmobile was traveling across the water in a No Wake Zone, leaving no wake but traveling in excess of 80 or 90 mph...would that be a violation of the no wake zone since the snowmobile's headway speed could very well be 80 or 90 mph or it will sink?

Discuss...

Last edited by Airwaves; 07-10-2008 at 09:59 PM. Reason: spacing
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Old 07-10-2008, 09:41 PM   #38
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There has been no media stories about charges or court appearances, just the once on WMUR TV and Citizen story.

Operating with potential injury, over the speed, etc., etc., etc. disobeying all common sense on water, with no respect for others nearby. To me, they should be denied the ability to obtain boating certificate and license to operate snow machine!!!

Did anyone determine if drugs of any kind were involved? Seems we could conclude "dares" existed.
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Old 07-10-2008, 10:10 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by froggy
disobeying all common sense on water, with no respect for others nearby. To me, they should be denied the ability to obtain boating certificate and license to operate snow machine!!!
While you are right, it was stupid! However there are not any laws mandating common sense. Stupidity is not illegal! Common sense is not mandated by law.

I seriously doubt that outside of pollution laws and/or some kind of reckless endangerrment charges, that they will be further identified or charged with anything else!

Last edited by Airwaves; 07-10-2008 at 10:12 PM. Reason: spellig
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Old 07-10-2008, 10:21 PM   #40
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Default based on

based on that u tube clip.
1) yes it seems a snowmobile creates a wake
2) and unless those guys are really good at what they are doing, it seems as if that if you keep the accelerator on full tilt, you wont sink?
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Old 07-10-2008, 10:25 PM   #41
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Default also

even though it was stupid, and reckless and dangerous... you have to admit, when something "new" gets done here, so long as no one was hurt, its kind of funny! and has alot of attention...
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Old 07-10-2008, 10:34 PM   #42
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Quote:
Sculpin wrote:
based on that u tube clip.
It made Youtube? What do I search to see it?
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Old 07-11-2008, 05:54 AM   #43
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Post Skimming

As a point of clarification, a snowmobile does not meet the legal definition of a watercraft, even if an attempt is made to operate as one. Therefore boating regulations like wake, speed and registration do not apply.

It is illegal in NH to knowingly operate a snowmobile across open water.


215-C:7 Operation on Open Water Prohibited. – No person shall knowingly operate a snowmobile on open water, also known as skimming. In this section, "open water'' means any area of an inland water body that is free of ice and snow. This section shall not apply to events as permitted pursuant to RSA 215-C:50.


Finally, depending on circumstances authorities can bring additional pertinent charges. In this case the charge of Reckless Conduct (RSA 631:3) was brought, which is a misdemeanor offense.

Separately, the second skimmer has also now been arrested. And as this news account reveals, a thorough multiagency investigation led to the issuance of a complaint & warrant that resulted in arrest. Sorry, there was no "conspiracy" or "favors" being tendered here, as needlessly speculated above. Just another case of the wheels of justice making their necessary, albeit it sometimes slow, turns!

The story of the second arrest can be read at the Citizen HERE...

Last edited by Skip; 07-11-2008 at 06:58 AM.
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Old 07-14-2008, 05:28 PM   #44
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Default Good Kid Gets A Bad Reputation

I Am Friends With One Of The "boneheads" That Went Across The Lake On July 4th. It Is Sad To See People Calling A Kid Who Is A Great Student, Honest Citizen, Hard Worker, And A Bright Young Man, A Idiot Or Saying He Has Bad Morals Or Judgement. For Those Who Think Alcohol Was Involved, Youre Wrong. No Alcohol Was Involved. He Does Not Drink. His Name Was Not Published In A Few Newspaper Articles Because He Was Very Cooperative With The Whole Thing And The People That Held His Name, Thought He Was A Good Kid Probably. He Doesnt Know Anyone. This Is A Hobby. Unlike Most People On This Forum, He Has A Life. Im Not Going To Attack The People In This Forum, Like They Attacked Him, Because All That Does Is Weaken My Arguement. Insulting People In An Arguement Only Means You Dont Have Enough Facts To Prove Your Point And You Need To Turn The Arguement Around So It Seems More Appealing To Everyone You Are Speeking To. I Would Like People To Meet This Young Man Before They Call Him An Idiot Or Bonehead. You Would Think The Opposite If You Sat Down And Talked With Him For A Few Minutes. He Has Not Got In Trouble Before And The Only Thing On His Record Are A Few Tickets. Give Him A Break. You Jump On Him Like You Would Jump On Someone Stealing Things Around Town, Or Breaking Into Business And Stealing Stuff. Not Everyone Agrees On This Matter And Plenty Of People Think It Was Exciting And A Neat Thing. He Didnt Put Anyone Else In Danger And Not One Got Hurt, No One Could Get Hurt. And No Wake Discussions And Watercraft Registrations Are Obserd. That Has Nothing To Do With This And Everyone Talking About It Needs To Take A Hike. He Only Got A Skimming Fine And Unregistered Sled Fine. No Big Deal. People Saying He Will Face Severe Charges Are Retarted. Skimming Only Became Illegal A Few Years Ago Because Fish And Game Dept. Is Running Out Of Funding And They Saw An Oppertunity To Get Money By Ticketing People With Things That Are Popular. Live Free Or Die. Thats This States Motto, Not Pass Judgement And Sit At Our Computers At Midnight Because We Have Nothing Else To Do, And Make Fun Of Popular, Well Liked Poeple. The People Who Think It Is Wrong Or These People Who Do This Are Boneheads, Are Just Tree Huggers. And To Say They Have No Respect For The Lake Is Obserd. Boats Put Out More Polution Than Snowmobiles. People Need To Get The Facts Straight. He Did Not Get Arrested, Nor Could He. It Is A Ticketable Offense, Therefore It Must Not Be A Big Deal. Get Over It And Get A Life. Stop Sitting Around Looking For Things To Whine About.
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Old 07-14-2008, 05:33 PM   #45
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Default No Arrest

Oh And The Kid Didnt Get Arrested Nor Did He Run Away. He Talked To The Police 20 Minutes Later. He Was There The Whole Time And They Knew Who Did It Minutes Later. No Warrants Got Issued And He Got 2 Tickets A Day Later. The End Of It. Nothing Else Will Come Of It And It Is Over With. THE LADY WHO WROTE THAT ARTICLE DIDNT EVEN TALK TO THE KID. SHE GOT FACTS FROM SOME PEOPLE WHO WERE VERY WRONG. PEOPLE SHOULD MAKE SURE WHAT THEY WRITE IS CORRECT BEFORE THEY PUBLISH IT. THERE WILL BE A SECOND ARTICLE FROM THIS LADY CORRECTING THE MANY MISTAKES IN IT. YOU WILL SEE IT SOON AND IT WIKLL HAVE GOOD INFO THE SECOND TIME AROUND
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Old 07-14-2008, 07:01 PM   #46
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Capping the first letter of every word makes for difficult reading. Capping every letter is shouting. Add in the spelling errors and the message starts to lose effectiveness.

Playmate of yours?
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Old 07-14-2008, 07:13 PM   #47
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Thumbs down Unbelievable!

Quote:
Originally Posted by pontiac464 View Post
...Skimming Only Became Illegal A Few Years Ago Because Fish And Game Dept. Is Running Out Of Funding And They Saw An Oppertunity To Get Money By Ticketing People With Things That Are Popular...
This one statement alone boggles the imagination!

Skimming is illegal because of the horrific deaths that have occured over the last decade due to this idiotic practice, and the public outcry to condemn an activity that not only can be deadly to the fool practicing it, but needlessly places rescue personnel and even helpful citizens in harm's way attempting to effect rescue.

As a Fish & Game certified snowmobile safety instructor, I always show the very disturbing video taken several seasons ago along Lake Winnipesukee that shows an individual as he drowns while attempting to skim open water.

No, skimming is not "popular" as the vast majority of mature and reasonable sledders realize just what a stupid and dangerous stunt it can be. It is truly ashame that you and your friend are unable to comprehend the foolishness of an activity that gains you nothing, but can easily cost you or someone else their life....
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Old 07-14-2008, 09:44 PM   #48
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The kid may have been smart, nice, popular, or whatever you may want to label him, pontiac. BUT...skimming is illegal, and you cannot argue with the fact that he broke the law. Which to me makes him a bonehead. He had a serious lapse in judgement. He needs to pick a new hobby.
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Old 07-15-2008, 12:27 AM   #49
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Default Sure What He Did Was Wrong

Sure what he did might now be labeled illegal, but it is not grounds to attack someones character or label someone. If you think about it, it is kinda funny that such a small thing could get so many people so flustered. when they made that law, i realy think they were talking about it occuring in the winter. this kid is very experienced with this. it is actually a sport, called watercross. events are held in a lot of places and are very popular. the only reason why he didnt make it the last 35 feet is becasue he ran out of gas. stupid mistake. im sure next time he does it he will put more gas in. it isnt the first time he did it and it wont be the last, im assuming! as for most people who disagree with my view point, skimming is just like speeding. most people do it, it just happens that this time he got caught. it doesnt make you a bad person, you just need to make sure you perform the act in a safer less populated area next time, that way no one can get you in trouble or argue whether it is correct or not.
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Old 07-15-2008, 12:59 AM   #50
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Default Might Make You Mad As Well

this might also make people mad as well, thats why im sharing it with the old folks of this forum. may people, along with the young adult that is being talked about, build snowmobile purposely for this and this only. TO GO ACROSS OPEN WATER. lol get over it. it is fun and no 1, not even the law officials will stop these kids. have fun trying, it will get you nowhere.
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Old 07-15-2008, 07:21 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by pontiac464 View Post
I Am Friends With One Of The "boneheads" That Went Across The Lake On July 4th.......
You wouldn't be this 'kid', would you??
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Old 07-15-2008, 08:18 AM   #52
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Lets see here,

Quote:
Originally Posted by pontiac464 View Post
Unlike Most People On This Forum, He Has A Life. Im Not Going To Attack The People In This Forum, Like They Attacked Him, Because All That Does Is Weaken My Arguement. Insulting People In An Arguement Only Means You Dont Have Enough Facts To Prove Your Point And You Need To Turn The Arguement Around So It Seems More Appealing To Everyone You Are Speeking To.
----------------------------------------------------
No you wouldn't want to attack people on this forum.
---------------------------------------------------
People Saying He Will Face Severe Charges Are Retarted. The People Who Think It Is Wrong Or These People Who Do This Are Boneheads, Are Just Tree Huggers. And To Say They Have No Respect For The Lake Is Obserd. Boats Put Out More Polution Than Snowmobiles. People Need To Get The Facts Straight. He Did Not Get Arrested, Nor Could He. It Is A Ticketable Offense, Therefore It Must Not Be A Big Deal. Get Over It And Get A Life. Stop Sitting Around Looking For Things To Whine About.
---------------------------------------------------
I see what you mean about not attacking people on this forum.
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Old 07-15-2008, 08:39 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Skip View Post
This one statement alone boggles the imagination!

Skimming is illegal because of the horrific deaths that have occured over the last decade due to this idiotic practice, and the public outcry to condemn an activity that not only can be deadly to the fool practicing it, but needlessly places rescue personnel and even helpful citizens in harm's way attempting to effect rescue.

As a Fish & Game certified snowmobile safety instructor, I always show the very disturbing video taken several seasons ago along Lake Winnipesukee that shows an individual as he drowns while attempting to skim open water.

No, skimming is not "popular" as the vast majority of mature and reasonable sledders realize just what a stupid and dangerous stunt it can be. It is truly ashame that you and your friend are unable to comprehend the foolishness of an activity that gains you nothing, but can easily cost you or someone else their life....
Amen Skip. I lost one of my very best friends when we UNINTENTIONALLY rode into water one night. Changed a lot of lives that night.
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Old 07-15-2008, 08:40 AM   #54
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Boats Put Out More Polution Than Snowmobiles.
Your comment is too vague/broad to even be argued here, but for it to be true it would probably also be dependent on the snowmobile being kept from sinking... In the case of your mensa-candidate friend here, this probably isn't a good statistic to try to use to support your argument.

Quote:
People Need To Get The Facts Straight. He Did Not Get Arrested, Nor Could He. It Is A Ticketable Offense, Therefore It Must Not Be A Big Deal.
Running a red light is a ticketable offense. Running a red light, and running over and killing someone is a little more severe. Continued skimming COULD very likely lead your friend to receive a summons instead of a ticket.

A snowmobile that is skimming across the water does not afford the operator a great deal of control and maneuverability. The activity itself has a high degree of probability of injury for both the operator and various bystanders. I prefer not to pass laws that would reduce the yearly Darwin Awards candidates, but it's probably not a good idea for people to go skimming across public land areas and waterways where more sane people are out and about enjoying themselves.

If your friend was taking a break from filling out his Harvard application and testing his skimming skills across a private pond or waterbody in his backyard, I doubt many people would care (or, those that did would definitely need a new hobby). But this case is a little different.
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Old 07-15-2008, 09:15 AM   #55
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A lot of people get killed hang gliding,base jumping,motorcross and other risky sports and no one makes a peep.If someone wants to risk his/her life for a thrill ,I guess that is their business as long as it does not endanger others.My only objection is that,in the winter time,skimmers leave tracks leading from snow to open water which could fool someone who doesn't know the area.Many people (myself included) follow tracks and trails especially at night in an unfamiliar area.
Would have been funnier if he'd pulled it off and disappeared....but he ran out of gas.......not too sma-h-h-h-t.....as the locals would say.
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Old 07-15-2008, 09:20 AM   #56
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this might also make people mad as well, thats why im sharing it with the old folks of this forum. may people, along with the young adult that is being talked about, build snowmobile purposely for this and this only. TO GO ACROSS OPEN WATER. lol get over it. it is fun and no 1, not even the law officials will stop these kids. have fun trying, it will get you nowhere.
Clearly you (or he depending ) was obviously not that good at it... Maybe a different past time may be in order.

Being a past "skimmer" myself, looking back on it now in my thirties with a wife, kids, a company to run and responsiblities it was not the smartest thing to do. Quite frankly, just plain dumb. This does not even account the dangers that othres are put in to pull your sorry azz out when you don't make it. You (or your friend) will grow up some day.
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Old 07-15-2008, 10:11 AM   #57
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didn't you see the sign on this post "DON'T FEED THE TROLL"
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Old 07-15-2008, 12:48 PM   #58
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Sure what he did might now be labeled illegal, but it is not grounds to attack someones character or label someone. If you think about it, it is kinda funny that such a small thing could get so many people so flustered. when they made that law, i realy think they were talking about it occuring in the winter. this kid is very experienced with this. it is actually a sport, called watercross. events are held in a lot of places and are very popular. the only reason why he didnt make it the last 35 feet is becasue he ran out of gas. stupid mistake. im sure next time he does it he will put more gas in. it isnt the first time he did it and it wont be the last, im assuming! as for most people who disagree with my view point, skimming is just like speeding. most people do it, it just happens that this time he got caught. it doesnt make you a bad person, you just need to make sure you perform the act in a safer less populated area next time, that way no one can get you in trouble or argue whether it is correct or not.
Smart enough to cross open water on a sled, but not smart enough to use enough gas. Brilliant. He must be wicked smaht.
And no, most people do NOT skim. Most people are smart enough to avoid the open water on a sled. I have been riding for over 10 years, with thousands of miles under my belt, and I have never crossed open water. Not once. But I guess I am not most people, right?
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this might also make people mad as well, thats why im sharing it with the old folks of this forum. may people, along with the young adult that is being talked about, build snowmobile purposely for this and this only. TO GO ACROSS OPEN WATER. lol get over it. it is fun and no 1, not even the law officials will stop these kids. have fun trying, it will get you nowhere.
OK hero. Have fun on the open water. Next time, make sure you and your buddy have enough gas.
Hey, I have an idea...how about having all this fun at an actual watercross event? I will look for you guys at Petersons Farm next October.
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Old 07-15-2008, 06:01 PM   #59
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Hey, I have an idea...how about having all this fun at an actual watercross event? I will look for you guys at Petersons Farm next October.
Perhaps a wise idea. At least then when (if?) you sink, there'll be somebody standing by to rescue you.

http://www.nipmucktrailriders.com/events.html

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Old 07-16-2008, 05:14 PM   #60
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Wouldn't buying a sea-doo work better.....it wouldn't sink????
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Old 07-16-2008, 11:05 PM   #61
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Wouldn't buying a sea-doo work better.....it wouldn't sink????
You sir, are a genious!
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Old 07-18-2008, 01:18 AM   #62
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Default running out of gas

oh and there is a reason he put a small amount of gas in his sled. he figured if he did sink he didnt want the lake water to ruin the gas in his sled. he wasnt worried about polution of the lake, but rather than ruining a half of a thank of gas. i sit here and laugh at how mad ppl get over this stuff, he will be riding a black 03 edge x at the farm if you see him, make sure you introduce yourself. he will probably enjoy chatting with you about how you think skimming is so bad and how it could put soooo many innocent bystanders in grave danger. just make sure the kids are home and the wife is safe. you wouldnt want them getting hurt while being around such a dangerous event.
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Old 07-18-2008, 01:21 AM   #63
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Default take a look

http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...rch_type=&aq=f

you might think the first few are pretty interesting. you might see some familiar view of the lake
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Old 07-18-2008, 09:25 AM   #64
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oh and there is a reason he put a small amount of gas in his sled. he figured if he did sink he didnt want the lake water to ruin the gas in his sled. he wasnt worried about polution of the lake, but rather than ruining a half of a thank of gas. i sit here and laugh at how mad ppl get over this stuff, he will be riding a black 03 edge x at the farm if you see him, make sure you introduce yourself. he will probably enjoy chatting with you about how you think skimming is so bad and how it could put soooo many innocent bystanders in grave danger. just make sure the kids are home and the wife is safe. you wouldnt want them getting hurt while being around such a dangerous event.
It is now confirmed, you (and him if he truly is someone else) are a flaming idiot!
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Old 07-18-2008, 09:46 AM   #65
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Default Darwin's Law...

...must be on some kind of delay.

You and your buddy need to practice a sentence that will give you lifelong support: "Do you want fries with that?"
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Old 07-18-2008, 11:25 AM   #66
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I can't imagine it. But this is not the first time he has been in trouble. I don't know what is in his head. I feel sorry for his parents.
At the first Wolfeboro forum (www.wolfeboroonline.com) now defunct, there was a long discussion about skimming before the Governor signed the law against it. This Dude wrote there against the law, saying, "I'm going to skim the way I always have". (Reminiscent of another phrase repeated here).

And why do I always think of "It's Miller Time" when this child gets rescued following these performances....over and over again?
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Old 07-18-2008, 08:07 PM   #67
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Default Economics are correct FLL

But where's the thrill in that?
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Old 07-18-2008, 09:14 PM   #68
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At the first Wolfeboro forum (www.wolfeboroonline.com) now defunct, there was a long discussion about skimming before the Governor signed the law against it. This Dude wrote there against the law, saying, "I'm going to skim the way I always have". (Reminiscent of another phrase repeated here).

And why do I always think of "It's Miller Time" when this child gets rescued following these performances....over and over again?
Primarily because you're barely more mature than they are! You're a very boorish, immature guy that will always believe what you do is far less offensive than everyone you dislike. In the end, people probably prefer the skimmers to you.
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Old 07-19-2008, 12:52 PM   #69
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Talking 'Skimmer' does not like label of 'stupid'



http://www.citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll...186/-1/CITIZEN
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Old 07-19-2008, 02:33 PM   #70
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Default As Forrest Gump would say!

"Stupid is as stupid does."

Perhaps skimming is not stupid but it sure is dumb!
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Old 07-19-2008, 05:14 PM   #71
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That must be the "new and improved" article the other pro-skimmer fool was referring to.
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Old 07-19-2008, 06:56 PM   #72
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The article's author neglected that he drove in to private property (Meredith Moorings Condo Association), put sled on pavement, drove snow machine down the grass embankment to more grass, crossed the private beach; he had to have gained speed! Proceeding on to Lake. Just for starters, I'd call it trespassing.

Where's the authority of court system to remove his license or certificate to drive a "boat" or a snow machine?

If nobody wants it called stupid or dumb, it certainly is extremely irresponsible behavior, and avoids all common sense of activity on a body of water. $360 is a very small price to pay. Sounds like we will see "copy cat" activities!

What's the next stunt? Or dare? Stupid or Dumb? Or irresponsible activity? Take a pair of water skis and slide down the winter ski jump at Gunstock, or drive an Indy Race Car up Mount Washington Auto Road?

Been lurking around and observing, both informed & educated comments, as well as uninformed and uneducated comments for a while, long before this thread stated!
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Old 07-24-2008, 04:39 PM   #73
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I Am Friends With One Of The "boneheads" That Went Across The Lake On July 4th. It Is Sad To See People Calling A Kid Who Is A Great Student, Honest Citizen, Hard Worker, And A Bright Young Man, A Idiot Or Saying He Has Bad Morals Or Judgement. For Those Who Think Alcohol Was Involved, Youre Wrong. No Alcohol Was Involved. He Does Not Drink. His Name Was Not Published In A Few Newspaper Articles Because He Was Very Cooperative With The Whole Thing And The People That Held His Name, Thought He Was A Good Kid Probably. He Doesnt Know Anyone. This Is A Hobby. Unlike Most People On This Forum, He Has A Life. Im Not Going To Attack The People In This Forum, Like They Attacked Him, Because All That Does Is Weaken My Arguement. Insulting People In An Arguement Only Means You Dont Have Enough Facts To Prove Your Point And You Need To Turn The Arguement Around So It Seems More Appealing To Everyone You Are Speeking To. I Would Like People To Meet This Young Man Before They Call Him An Idiot Or Bonehead. You Would Think The Opposite If You Sat Down And Talked With Him For A Few Minutes. He Has Not Got In Trouble Before And The Only Thing On His Record Are A Few Tickets. Give Him A Break. You Jump On Him Like You Would Jump On Someone Stealing Things Around Town, Or Breaking Into Business And Stealing Stuff. Not Everyone Agrees On This Matter And Plenty Of People Think It Was Exciting And A Neat Thing. He Didnt Put Anyone Else In Danger And Not One Got Hurt, No One Could Get Hurt. And No Wake Discussions And Watercraft Registrations Are Obserd. That Has Nothing To Do With This And Everyone Talking About It Needs To Take A Hike. He Only Got A Skimming Fine And Unregistered Sled Fine. No Big Deal. People Saying He Will Face Severe Charges Are Retarted. Skimming Only Became Illegal A Few Years Ago Because Fish And Game Dept. Is Running Out Of Funding And They Saw An Oppertunity To Get Money By Ticketing People With Things That Are Popular. Live Free Or Die. Thats This States Motto, Not Pass Judgement And Sit At Our Computers At Midnight Because We Have Nothing Else To Do, And Make Fun Of Popular, Well Liked Poeple. The People Who Think It Is Wrong Or These People Who Do This Are Boneheads, Are Just Tree Huggers. And To Say They Have No Respect For The Lake Is Obserd. Boats Put Out More Polution Than Snowmobiles. People Need To Get The Facts Straight. He Did Not Get Arrested, Nor Could He. It Is A Ticketable Offense, Therefore It Must Not Be A Big Deal. Get Over It And Get A Life. Stop Sitting Around Looking For Things To Whine About.
I can't even respond to this one....its too easy and it would take me till midnight to write it all.
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Old 07-24-2008, 06:50 PM   #74
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Default skimming ghost

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I can't even respond to this one....its too easy and it would take me till midnight to write it all.
could it be they too where looking for the ghost of skimming that lives in brookhusrt village..
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Old 07-24-2008, 07:18 PM   #75
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Default maybe

I have a friend in Atkinson, who used to do this all the time (skimming, I guess it is called) on Big Island Pond. He was really into it, and I believe it is a sport.
While Pontiac 464's long explanation tries to take all the negative connotation associated with this event away from the skimmer (which I disagree with), I do agree with much of what he says. He should not be completely obsolved of all wrong doing, but truly, it is not the end of the earth. In fact, as far as I can see (although I believe skimming was recently declared illegal, not sure though) the only thing he is guilty of is violating the no wake zone. That's it.
This trespassing accusation??? Yeah, OK, maybe, but come on.
GTO just disregarding the post, and isinuating that, given the time, he/she could take it apart...I'm not sure.
The guy used the lake in a way YOU did not care for. Does not really make it dangerous or wrong. Do you know how many boaters on weekends have no clue how to read a chart, and have no idea about the law of safe passage, or what a stand on vessel is (hint:not a jet ski). There are many dangers out there. While I would agree that skimming is probably not the best idea when the lake is busy, it is a real, actual sport.
It's funny...reading all the threads on this board about speed limits, and canoes, and whatever...It's like "if I don't agree with how you want to use the lake, you are wrong". There is plenty of water out there, people.
How does it go?? Live free or...
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Old 07-24-2008, 07:22 PM   #76
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Default

Quote:
no-engine wrote:
Where's the authority of court system to remove his license or certificate to drive a "boat" or a snow machine?
To the best of my knowledge, and I certainly could be wrong on this because I don't own or operate a snowmobile, a certificate program is recommended but not required for a snowmobile...and since a snowmobile is not a boat no boating certificate is required. So there is no authority to remove any certificate to operate a snowmobile or boat.
Quote:
If nobody wants it called stupid or dumb, it certainly is extremely irresponsible behavior, and avoids all common sense of activity on a body of water. $360 is a very small price to pay. Sounds like we will see "copy cat" activities!
Yep, it was stupid, yep it was dumb. It is the 21st Century version of what our parents and grandparents called our stunts stupid and dumb. They have more money and toys than we did back then. Will we see copycats? You betch your bippy! (Rowan and Martin for those who don't know)
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Old 07-24-2008, 07:37 PM   #77
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Default OK...Have it your way

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Originally Posted by pontiac464 View Post
I Would Like People To Meet This Young Man Before They Call Him An Idiot Or Bonehead.

OK, I won't call him a bonehead. But I will suggest that he practice his adventures after dark. People with heads made of wax need to stay out of the hot sun.
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Old 07-24-2008, 09:33 PM   #78
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Just a question. If, as adults, we continue to excuse irresponsible behavior, how do young adults learn responsibility?
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Old 07-24-2008, 09:49 PM   #79
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I don't condone or excuse it, it was stupid and dangerous and they should face the consequences. However, I understand it. I think there's a difference.
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Old 08-01-2008, 04:43 PM   #80
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Default some people

some people have nothing better to do than bash people on this forum for doing the things they like to do in their own spare time. im sure all the 80 year olds never did anything that made other people mad, when you were young. im sure they bashed you too.
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Old 08-04-2008, 03:34 PM   #81
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Default Now I know this is outrageous but...

I like to play golf. My parents deck would make a perfect driving range. It has an unobstructed view of Meredith Bay. I could throw a mat down on the deck, pull out my driver and start driving golf balls out into the bay. Now most of the time my golf balls would fall harmlessly into the water, but I'm sure a few of them would hit boats. Now I am just enjoying my favorite past-time and no one should bash me on this site for doing what I want to do. Is that right Pontiac... Just want to make sure, because I have tournament soon and it would save the drive to range.
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Old 08-04-2008, 03:50 PM   #82
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Default Wow!

Golf balls into the lake???? Yeah, that's about the same as riding a smowmobile across the lake! Give me a break. While I am not crazy about what he did, I don't believe it to be the crime everyone is making it out to be. For Pete's sake, stop and think for one second, one bloody second, how is it THAT different from riding a jet ski across the lake. Of course the snowmobile can sink, but under power? about the same thing. Of course it is wrong, and he violated the no wake zone (along with hundreds of others), but I still think it would be a pretty cool thing to see...and remember...it is actually a real sport, that is done IN WATER.
Hitting golf balls into the water?! That's the best you've got?!
Sell your argument, and I may buy it....but after that analogy...you have no credibility.
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Old 08-04-2008, 04:58 PM   #83
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I like to play golf. My parents deck would make a perfect driving range. It has an unobstructed view of Meredith Bay. I could throw a mat down on the deck, pull out my driver and start driving golf balls out into the bay. Now most of the time my golf balls would fall harmlessly into the water, but I'm sure a few of them would hit boats. Now I am just enjoying my favorite past-time and no one should bash me on this site for doing what I want to do. Is that right Pontiac... Just want to make sure, because I have tournament soon and it would save the drive to range.
Could you please tell me when this tournament is , im all in , I too have much practice in this field but my unobstructed view was paugus bay , a cool 9 iron with a slight breeze would send my #1 titlest sailing within inches of its intended target (moored dingy) and oh the sound when it found its target hevenly fun.thanks for any info
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Old 08-04-2008, 05:11 PM   #84
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Exclamation Snowmobiles are not PWCs

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Originally Posted by sa meredith View Post
...For Pete's sake, stop and think for one second, one bloody second, how is it THAT different from riding a jet ski across the lake. Of course the snowmobile can sink, but under power? about the same thing...
First let me state again that the individual did not violate the "no wake" zone, or any other boating statute. Only watercraft can violate boating regulations, and a sled never obtains the status of a watercraft...no matter how it is operated.

That said there is a tremendous amount of difference between a snowmobile being operated on water and a PWC or any other watercraft. A sled operator has very little immediate directional control of his sled and depends on constant or accelerating speed to keep the sled afloat and moving forward. Any release of the throttle will result in almost immediate sinking. The sled also cannot compensate or maneuver over or through a wake or wave. Turns must be made with great anticipation and substantial clearance.

In short a sled operator, by the nature of the vehicle he is operating, has extremely limited control and must remain at speed at all times. It is obvious to see how this can present a serious danger to the boating or swimming public that may be operating in the general vicinity of this foolish act.

And let me add that whether the operator places himself in danger or not while operating and subsequently sinking said sled, his action clearly places rescuers and the general public in danger whether the act is committed on a warm summer day or in the middle of winter.

How?

Because in either case when a bystander dials 911 to report the incident, first responders have no idea whether the operator or any other person is in danger. They will respond accordingly. And unfortunately everytime a police officer, firefighter or medic has to respond in an emergency fashion to the scene of an incident it presents a serious situation for all involved along the way.

Additionally, when emergency responders are involved in responding to such an incident that means that the response to an additional emergency could be delayed.

Finally, the "sport" you speak of is conducted under controlled conditions with appropriate safety equipment and personnel on immediate standby. It is not done unannounced on a summer weekend at a crowded public lake.

As a longtime snowmobiler and public safety employee, I also volunteer my time as a Snowmobile Safety Instructor to teach young sledders the appropriate and safe way to respect the sport of snowmobiling. Skimming is a topic we cover clearly and seriously with our audience, due in part to the horrific incidents that occur across the country and here in New Hampshire each and every year. It's easy to draw the line in the sand on this issue, don't ever do it unless you are an experienced operator at a sanctioned event.


...For Pete's sake, stop and think for one second, one bloody second...

Outstanding advice.....I hope you think about it!
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Old 08-05-2008, 09:21 AM   #85
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Default Give me a break

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Golf balls into the lake???? Yeah, that's about the same as riding a smowmobile across the lake! Give me a break. While I am not crazy about what he did, I don't believe it to be the crime everyone is making it out to be. For Pete's sake, stop and think for one second, one bloody second, how is it THAT different from riding a jet ski across the lake. Of course the snowmobile can sink, but under power? about the same thing. Of course it is wrong, and he violated the no wake zone (along with hundreds of others), but I still think it would be a pretty cool thing to see...and remember...it is actually a real sport, that is done IN WATER.
Hitting golf balls into the water?! That's the best you've got?!
Sell your argument, and I may buy it....but after that analogy...you have no credibility.
That is why the subject of the post was "I know this outrageous but.." SA Meredith I would never hit golf balls into the lake first of all. Secondly as Skip posted Watercross is done on a closed course. Now I agree the videos on line are pretty cool to watch, but skimming is against the law in NH. My analogy of hitting golf balls into the lake was in response to Pontiac's post about not bashing the kid for doing something "he likes to do in his spare time". Well I like to hit golf balls why can't I hit them out into the lake? If this kid can take his snowmobile and go at a high rate of speed on a public waterway, not be able to steer well and if he stops sink a snowmobile into the lake. Why can't I hit golf balls into the Lake? That is where the analogy came from.
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Old 08-05-2008, 09:49 AM   #86
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Default

While I am not crazy about what he did, I don't believe it to be the crime everyone is making it out to be.

Skimming is illegal, therefore, it's a crime. That took less than one bloody second to figure out. And a big, fat ditto to Skip. Every second emergency responders have to spend on a Darwin Award Winner is time they aren't able to spend responding to real emergencies. Kids being kids, we all did stupid stuff, blah blah blah. Stretching emergency resources thin due to stupidity is serious business. A heart attack victim versus our summer skimmer? Let the dumb kid sink.
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Old 08-05-2008, 11:01 AM   #87
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Default One question.....

I have one question, and only one. Please answer this, Skip, Parrothead, Twoplustwo, GTO, anyone else who cares to. And please, stop and think carefully before responding. Also, it is just a question. There is no "hidden adgenda" here AT ALL!
The question:
Yes, the event was illegal, and yes, important emergency resources could have been put to better use, as oppossed to responding to this foolish thing.
But I don't put it in the catagory of a blatant dis-regard of the law. And further, I don't think the guy should be ripped apart on this board by you folks...now the question...
If it turns out (and we will know soon), that Erica Blizzard was driving her boat "very drunk", and therefore performed an illegal act, and took the time of emergency responders, who could have been needed elsewhere, are all you fine folks going to point that same high power of perception at her, and rip her up on this board? I'll take a daytime skimmer, over a drunk night time boater.
Do I smell double standard? Maybe too early, but time will tell.

In fact, Towplustwo, you say "let the kid dumb kid sink". If it turns out she was drunk, can I expect a post reading "let the drunk girl sink?". Just a question.

Last edited by sa meredith; 08-05-2008 at 11:33 AM.
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Old 08-05-2008, 11:48 AM   #88
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In fact, Towplustwo, you say "let the kid dumb kid sink". If it turns out she was drunk, can I expect a post reading "let the drunk girl sink?". Just a question.

If the dumb kid sank, he was doing it alone. Considering there were two other people in need of emergency assistance on that boat, I think you already know the answer to that question.

Yes, it is too early to be sniffing a double standard. And yes, if it is determined she was operating that boat while drunk, then that takes it from a tragic accident to a criminal act which obviously deserves and will receive villification.
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Old 08-05-2008, 11:50 AM   #89
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Default SA Meredith

In my mind there would be no double standard for me. If the investigation shows that Erica was intoxicated, then that accident moves from unfortunate to preventable. There is no excuse for driving anything while drunk. Can I propose a what if scenario? Would you think that the snowmobiler's actions were so cool if he injured someone on his trip across the lake?
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Old 08-05-2008, 12:04 PM   #90
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Default worse, isn't it...

Well, gee, twoplustwo, if it turns out she was drunk sort of makes it worse, doesn't it. You say "If the dumb kid sank, he was doing it alone." Erica involved two other people. Would be worse. We will see.

Parrothead...sorry, that does not work. The FACT is, noone was hurt.
However, in Erica's case there is a very good possibility (due to physical evidence) that she was indeed drunk, or at the very least drinking. And the FACT is, a girl was killed (involuntarily murdered?). I don't believe the skimmer hit anybody.
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Old 08-05-2008, 12:25 PM   #91
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Well, gee, twoplustwo, if it turns out she was drunk sort of makes it worse, doesn't it. You say "If the dumb kid sank, he was doing it alone." Erica involved two other people. Would be worse. We will see.

Well, gee, I don't think it takes a visit from Captain Obvious to figure that out. I don't recall ever saying I was in favor of drunk boating and people dying as a result of it, and I don't know why this one kid's enormous stupidity cannot stand on it's own for what it was. The kid did something against the law, he was rightfully charged. If she did something against the law, she should be charged. One has nothing to do with the other. Why you seem to think I want this kid hanged but want to ignore the other situation, if, in fact, it turns out to warrant criminal charges is beyond me. I never indicated that, I certainly wouldn't support that, and I'm tired of you typing at me like I should be wearing a helmet.
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Old 08-05-2008, 12:27 PM   #92
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Default Ok

If Erica is found to be intoxicated she took a gamble with her life, everyone in the boat, in house, and on the lake that night. And unfortunately she lost that gamble. The snowmobiler took a gamble skimming across the lake. He just happened to be lucky. He could have hit a wave wrong and been thrown, he could have been unable to avoid an obstacle, or just sunk the snowmobile. Both Erica's intoxication and the skimming are avoidable. Erica not drinking and the snowmobiler leaves the snowmobile in the truck. Now everyone gambles their life everyday, you could get hit by a bus, or have a car accident. But the odds of harm are much higher while boating intoxicated or skimming a snowmobile across the Lake. So yes the kid didn't injure anyone, but it could have just as easily gone the other way.
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Old 08-05-2008, 12:36 PM   #93
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Default Look...

Look, I'm not trying to a jerk. And my analogy is just that, an analogy. I wish nothing but the best for Erica, her family, and all others affected by the incident.
My point is just this...be careful when reacting passionately in a public forum.
You need to be consistent to have credibility. I remember first reading about Diamond Island, and all the sympathy that came out, and yet I could not help but think back to previous threads were it was stated time and again that a captain's first and most important responsibility is the safety of his/her passengers. Sort of a double edge sword.
In this case, someone like Twoplustwo (in my opinion) can't post something like "I'll keep Erica in my thoughts and prayers", and then vilify another person who acted irresponsibly. Erica's actions had tragic results...the skimmers, not so much. Were is the consistency here?
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Old 08-05-2008, 12:48 PM   #94
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Default Facts is the difference

Quote:
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Look, I'm not trying to a jerk. And my analogy is just that, an analogy. I wish nothing but the best for Erica, her family, and all others affected by the incident.
My point is just this...be careful when reacting passionately in a public forum.
You need to be consistent to have credibility. I remember first reading about Diamond Island, and all the sympathy that came out, and yet I could not help but think back to previous threads were it was stated time and again that a captain's first and most important responsibility is the safety of his/her passengers. Sort of a double edge sword.
In this case, someone like Twoplustwo (in my opinion) can't post something like "I'll keep Erica in my thoughts and prayers", and then vilify another person who acted irresponsibly. Erica's actions had tradgic results...the skimmers, not so much. Were is the consistency here?
At this time the investigation into the Diamond Island accident is still not completed. The skimmer was caught and there is no question what he did. If this skimmer God forbid had hurt or killed himself or others, my response would be still to offer condolences to the families involved. I would think that it's too bad because it all could have been avoided. The same with the Diamond Island accident. If the facts of the case include that Erica was intoxicated, then I will still feel for the families involved. And feel extra bad that it all could have been avoided. Luckily we don't have to offer condolences to the skimmer's family or anyone else. He got lucky and wasn't hurt, but as I said before it could easily have gone the other way.
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Old 08-05-2008, 02:31 PM   #95
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Default my credibility?

I think good thoughts and prayers are absolutely appropriate when someone is in intensive care and their best friend is dead. I'd like to think my Higher Power was more concerned with healing at that point, as well. If that makes me less credible in your eyes, oh well. I'll get over it. Probably by the time I hit the submit button.
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Old 08-05-2008, 03:12 PM   #96
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Default Fair enough

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The Citizen said the MP and F&G didn't believe the two incidents were connected. Now how is it possible that Darwin gifted us with two such inspired individuals on the same day in the same area and they weren't connected?

It's possible the other moron was a juvenile, or that the MP, F&G, and MPD are having so much trouble mentally processing the stupidity that they've lost touch with the media
Ok, fair enough. Just be sure when the investigation is over, and Erica is found responsible (either sober or drunk) for what occured on a boat being captained by her, you post something similar to the above.
Words like "moron", and "such inspired individuals".

Remember, these are not my thoughts, but your's. I feel very badly for her, as life will never be the same. Sometimes, people make poor decisions, in the heat of the moment...and 9 out of 10 times they get away with it. Which has been my point all along...don't make villans out of the skimmers, although what they did was wrong. It turned out to be a harmless thrill ride.
No one should crucify them or call them morons, like you did. But if you want to that's fine. Just be consistent in your judging of people who act in ways you do not agree with.
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Old 08-05-2008, 03:20 PM   #97
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Default Peace?

Twoplustwo and anyone else... Olive branch. OK?
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Old 08-05-2008, 03:28 PM   #98
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Default would you please create a library of all of my posts?

Then I can copy and paste as I need to in the future. Should I PM you first, so you can check for my credibility, meter the severity of my chosen words, and callibrate my attacks for equal venom levels?

So parrothead has no credibility because you don't like his analogy, I have no credibility because I offered prayers prior to the investigation ending and the DA making an announcement. Maybe you should ask the webmaster to create a credibility filter for you, it would make your life so much easier here on the forum.
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Old 08-05-2008, 03:45 PM   #99
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Default Ok

OK, I'm out...
I just don't get the sarcasm?! Why?
I make a point, and then submit actual facts and site instances to support that point. In this case, I expose your double standard with previous posts.

And you retort with something similar to "well, you're a big fat bubble head".
I don't believe anyone on this forum should refer to a person as a moron, and be insulting to them because they did something disagreeable on the lake.
I would love to hear you explain how a person who performs a foolish act (sober or not) that leads to a death escapes your rath, and someone who's act ends harmlessly, is called a moron by you.
I don't believe either should be villified on this board. Neither one.
I wonder how you can seperate the two.
I mean no ill intent. I am truly just curious.
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Old 08-05-2008, 04:36 PM   #100
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Default

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OK, I'm out...
I just don't get the sarcasm?! Why?
I make a point, and then submit actual facts and site instances to support that point. In this case, I expose your double standard with previous posts.

And you retort with something similar to "well, you're a big fat bubble head".
I don't believe anyone on this forum should refer to a person as a moron, and be insulting to them because they did something disagreeable on the lake.
I would love to hear you explain how a person who performs a foolish act (sober or not) that leads to a death escapes your rath, and someone who's act ends harmlessly, is called a moron by you.
I don't believe either should be villified on this board. Neither one.
I wonder how you can seperate the two.
I mean no ill intent. I am truly just curious.

I thought calling him a moron was rather mild. I suppose breaking a law would be considered "disagreeable".
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